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Gadgets Nintendo Posts Huge Loss of $575M
Shane McGlaun (Blog) - January 26, 2012 10:22 AM
Print 47 comment(s) - last by RuptureX.. on Jan 29 at 11:11 AM
Loss was many times what Wall Street expected

Nintendo has posted its latest earnings reports and the company has announced a larger than anticipated loss for the year. This loss represents the first loss for Nintendo at the operating level. Part of the loss is chalked up to the strong yen making investments and money earned in other parts of the world worth less. 
 
Nintendo is also fighting the continuing defection of gamers from traditional portable consoles like the 3Ds and DSi to the iPhone and other touchscreen devices. Nintendo is also seeing demand for its Wii home gaming console wane.
 
"To say that (the days of consoles) are over is likely an overstatement, but social network and Internet delivered games are growing and structurally changing the future of the industry, which is a strong wind against Nintendo," said Shigeo Sugawara, senior investment manager at SompoJapan Nipponkoa Asset Management.
 
Nintendo is expecting an operating loss of $575 million working out to 45 billion yen. Analysts had expected Nintendo to rack up a much smaller loss of only 4.2 billion yen. Nintendo has also cut the forecast for Wii sales from the previous 12 million units to 10 million and the 3DS handheld console sales forecast has been chopped form 16 million to 14 million.
 
Nintendo President Satoru Iwata said, "We had higher expectations for the year-end season, but failed to meet them."
 
To help drum up some confidence in Nintendo, Iwata did announce that the new Wii U would be launching in the U.S., Japan, and Europe in time for the holidays season of 2012. Nintendo saw profits for the October to December holiday shopping quarter fall to 40.8 billion yen compared to the expected 52 billion yen.
 
Nintendo stock continues to fall in price with the stock trading below 11,000 yen thanks to weak sales. When Nintendo was at its highest the stock was trading for 73,200 yen per share. Things are so bad that some analysts are now thinking that the days of the home game console are over.

Sources: Reuters, Nintendo


Comments     Threshold


The Real Problem...
By JasonMick (blog) on 1/26/2012 11:55:56 AM , Rating: 5
Nintendo obviously has a problem on the mobile end. But the problem isn't lack of interest in consoles. It's the price of apps.

Nintendo needs to switch to a digital delivery model, as Sony is doing with the PSP. It has the brand name to do it. But it needs to do it quickly.

Kids love games, kids always want more games, and parents are cheap. Add these factors up and a parent would rather buy their child a $200 iPod Touch that can get new games for $1 (or free ad-supported) versus a $150-$200 handheld with $25-$40 games.

The iPod Touch is not an ideal gaming device, as it lacks dedicated controls. But the issue Nintendo is facing is that the games are so darn cheap.

Nintendo has always been a company that has been sluggish to move, e.g. its monetary losses due to sticking with cartridges with the N64, versus optical media. But don't count it out -- it came back big with the Wii. Nintendo is a creative company -- once it ditches the cartridge on the mobile device, it will likely figure out a way to create a new and different compelling product.




RE: The Real Problem...
By troysavary on 1/26/2012 12:09:12 PM , Rating: 5
Those 1 dollar games on tablets and phones are worth exactly that, in most cases. Very few app devs put much effort into the apps when they see fart apps and Angry Birds sell with little development costs.


RE: The Real Problem...
By chmilz on 1/26/2012 12:49:08 PM , Rating: 2
Honestly, the only good gaming I've done on my phone/tablet is through console emulators, and a solitaire app. Everything else seems to be slice, launch, or grind-ville repeats.

Release a Civilization-type game with true production quality and support and I'll pay real money for it. Strategy titles are perfect for touch devices.


RE: The Real Problem...
By aceofclubs on 1/26/2012 1:14:20 PM , Rating: 3
ARMED! for WP7. Not as complex as Civ but very very good


RE: The Real Problem...
By MrBlastman on 1/26/2012 1:29:19 PM , Rating: 2
The problem is most people are stuck in the cash grab mentality. If they can get millions to buy a dinky 1.00 app versus tens of thousands buying a full-blown game that takes significantly more sunk costs to produce upfront before the revenues trickle in--they're going to take the easy road.

I know a lot of people that want to develop games... not just develop them but design them. These design positions are coveted in the big companies such as EA, Take Two, Activision etc. so they aren't easy to come by. But, to start a company yourself, it requires tons of money or something that requires modest effort that might sell really well.

In other words, these indie developers have to start small to eventually build up enough capital to create bigger, AAA titles (which cost millions to make). So, how I see it, we are seeing a rennaisance in atari-style gaming from the early 80's where games were just that--simple, mindless fun but not in quite the same way. They're accessible and available to the masses.

Give it time, when some of these small guys get big, we might see some true creativity come out of them--at least the ones who are driven and really want to create a "game"
for the sake of gaming.

The real crime these days though is free to play. Most of the time they are empty games with a "hook" to draw you in and ultimately, are never free to play. They end up costing you many times more than a normal game would had you bought it just once.

Me, I don't really care. I stick with my PC and just sit back and watch what happens elsewhere.


RE: The Real Problem...
By kmmatney on 1/26/2012 7:28:55 PM , Rating: 2
They have Civilization Revolution for iOS - its the same basic version they sell for the Nintendo DS. I tiny it easier to play on the DS, but it's a decent game on the iPad.


RE: The Real Problem...
By TakinYourPoints on 1/27/2012 1:19:05 AM , Rating: 2
CivRev is on iOS, same with Final Fantasy Tactics. Both are pretty good. There are good mobile games out there, where they suck is when genres that don't translate well to touch are made, FPS and things like that. There are many other genres there that do work great on touch, Plants vs Zombies, World Of Goo, the upcoming port of Frozen Synapse (one of the best PC games of 2011 and it will work PERFECTLY on a touch screen, woohoo!), things like that


RE: The Real Problem...
By vortmax2 on 1/26/2012 3:44:38 PM , Rating: 2
Your point is correct, however, it seems that most of what I'd call 'new school' gamers are not as concerned with game quality than quantity. Long gone are the days the majority of new school gamers would sit down and dive into Legend of Zelda or Super Mario for weeks and/or months averaging 10+ hours per week at $50 a pop. The gaming industry seems to be following the path of the fast food industry...


RE: The Real Problem...
By cokbun on 1/26/2012 10:07:32 PM , Rating: 2
true there are no good android games that i have played, except maybe dead space, even that feels watered down. ive played better games on my snes then on my android.


RE: The Real Problem...
By Paj on 1/27/2012 7:11:18 AM , Rating: 2
You haven't looked very hard then. Smartphones arent ideal for your FPS or console game analogues, but it lends itself very well to strategy/puzzle/third person action games. And the Kairosoft management sims are some of the best example of game design Ive played on any platform.


RE: The Real Problem...
By zlandar on 1/26/2012 12:43:32 PM , Rating: 1
Not sure I agree. The PS3 and 360 are doing fine. While both offer a digital gaming store what drives the sales of both consoles are the major game releases which still come out on DVD/Blu-Ray.

What has killed Nintendo is their focus on the casual gamer and the Wii being grossly underpowered compared to the PS3/360. Those gamers are the ones who don't mind playing games on the iTouch. The hardcore gamer who buys every AAA release like CoD/GoW/Uncharted/etc is not going to give up his console.

The Wii games look awful compared to the other consoles, especially now that everyone owns a HDTV. The console is so underpowered it can't handle the AAA releases on other consoles even if the publisher was willing to port the game.

Unless the Wii U can offer a compelling experience with a large stable of quality games on release it's going to flop even worse than the 3DS.


RE: The Real Problem...
By Red Storm on 1/26/2012 1:28:15 PM , Rating: 1
Yep, this is the issue. They focused on the casual crowd right before the casual gaming market shifted over to smartphones and tablets. Now they can't compete.

I blame the Wii. That was a step in the wrong direction.


RE: The Real Problem...
By quiksilvr on 1/26/2012 1:35:31 PM , Rating: 3
Agree and disagree. It was the perfect decision on Nintendo's part, but it's five years later and the novelty wore off quickly.

At the very least, the Wii should have had an HDMI output and at the very least 720p support for its games. Have you seen Skyward Sword emulation on PC vs the Wii? It's a night and day difference.


RE: The Real Problem...
By sprockkets on 1/26/2012 2:03:58 PM , Rating: 2
The resolution isn't so much the problem with that game as anti-aliasing. Even Zelda TP was better looking.

This is all apple's fault - turning the gaming market into a gimick...

OK, there are some more in depth titles for phones, but I mean, like what?


RE: The Real Problem...
By tayb on 1/26/2012 8:34:51 PM , Rating: 2
Disagree completely.

They mopped the floor with the PS3 and the Xbox 360, routinely doubling their sales combined.

They made two mistakes.

1. The Wii was a killer console but they let it fester without updates for far too long. They let Microsoft answer with the Kinect and Sony blatantly copy them with the Move without so much as a response. The Wii U? Lacking in the "innovation" department and two years too late

2. The 3DS was a major mistake. The technology is awesome but their R&D drove the price up way too high. The 3DS needed to be < $100 and it wasn't even close. The price of the 3DS and then the price of the game made a standard cell phone or an iPod Touch a better value proposition for kids.


RE: The Real Problem...
By Reclaimer77 on 1/26/2012 9:24:53 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
1. The Wii was a killer console


Yeah if you're 12 years old. Come on, get a clue.

quote:
They mopped the floor with the PS3 and the Xbox 360, routinely doubling their sales combined.


Which ultimately doesn't matter when developers are unable to make compelling titles for it. I've maybe played two Wii games that didn't completely suck balls, and they were targeted for people half my age at that.

The Wii was a gimmick device. Cool at first, but ultimately uninteresting in the long-run.


RE: The Real Problem...
By tayb on 1/27/2012 1:03:55 AM , Rating: 2
Brilliant argument. "Yeah if you're 12." Har har har.

The console was cheap and had an innovative controller scheme that lent itself well to a handful of fun games. Oh, yeah, and it obliterated the PS3 and Xbox 360 for, what, five years? I understand that "killer" is slang and can mean just about anything but cheap, fun, innovative, and sky high sales fits my definition of "killer."

The Wii routinely had 3-4 games in the top 10 sales charts (they have 2 right now). The problem was never software but the fact that they let the console sit stagnant for so long. The innovative hardware isn't innovative anymore and Microsoft and Sony have copied it. That's why it failed.

Gimmick? Oh jeez. The top selling games (listed below) are ranked by global sales. #1 denotes the top selling game. Ever. By my calculations I see 7 of the most sold games ALL TIME are for the Wii.

Wii - 43% market share. 93 million consoles sold.

Top selling games:

1. Wii Sports
3. Mario Kart Wii
5. Wii Sports Resort
7. Wii Play
11. Super Mario Bros
14. Wii Fit
15. Wii Fit Plus

Do you ever do any research before you make dumb statements?


RE: The Real Problem...
By Just Tom on 1/27/2012 8:15:58 AM , Rating: 2
It would be nice if you cited where you got your list from just for checking purposes but even accepting your numbers, which seem reasonable, there are a couple of problems with your list. Wii Sports was a pack-in game, sold bundled with the Wii; Wii Play likewise was bundled with a Wii remote. With your metric Kinect Adventures is the best selling 360 game of all time.


RE: The Real Problem...
By Reclaimer77 on 1/27/2012 8:58:39 AM , Rating: 2
So Nintendo is hemorrhaging money because Microsoft "copied" them? Come on, how does that even compute to you? They are in trouble because the Wii is now a dead-end, and every day the 3DS exists Nintendo loses money.

Oh and nice list of games that come bundled with the Wii but still get listed as "sales". And please stop bringing up Wii system sales. The thing was dirt cheap and everyone knows that's why it sold in those numbers! Would you buy a $600 Wii? Hell no. But plenty of people bought 360's and PS3's for that much.

quote:
The problem was never software but the fact that they let the console sit stagnant for so long.


I don't think you're aware of Nintendos financial state. They never had the money to refresh the Wii like Microsoft and Sony can do with their boxes. Dude we're lucky the Wii even came out at all. Nintendo is a really small company, they just can't play with the big boys that way.

But look, maybe I'm crazy? So I went to see if other people who get payed to write about this stuff feel any different. You say the problem was "never" software, mind you.

"Sure, playing the Wii is fun and it has even inspired three kids to get off their couch and lose weight. However, the novelty of swinging around a Wii 'mote to play a game wears off about the time your last party guest heads home. As a gamer who owns a Wii, I can't help but notice that the Wii seems to get the majority of its use when I haul it to a friend's or to my grandparents for Christmas. As a whole, the Wii is lacking in games, online support and single player fun, leading me to the conclusion that it is overrated. "

http://www.dailyfinance.com/2008/09/21/overrated-n...

I think he sums up the Wii nicely. Don't you? It's sure as hell how I feel about it.

Here's another guy who gets it:

"See, the Wii (and by extension the Kinect and Move) has instilled a culture that it is okay to skimp on graphics, sound, narrative, in-depth content and presentation as long as the game has motion control. And sure, its great and increases immersion but these games really amount to little more than fun diversions. Games you pick up and play for an hour or so and then move on. I guess that’s the definition of “casual gaming” but you can’t have a console completely built on casual games. I mean even the iPhone has some pretty hardcore games on the platform. You can argue control is really all that should matter, but I believe that is a naive mindset. I see video games as a much more holistic art form that sees its greatest success at the combination of visual, audial, technical, and narrative arts. It is this great fusion that makes video games unique. Of course, some of the best games on earth lack one or more of these areas, but that does not mean they should be ignored. This focus on input before output is a major philosophical flaw of the Wii."

http://digit.algravitas.com/2011/04/the-rise-and-f...


RE: The Real Problem...
By tayb on 1/27/2012 11:31:30 AM , Rating: 2
http://www.vgchartz.com/gamedb/

I never even alluded that they were hemorrhaging because Microsoft copied them. I plainly stated that the Wii was innovative but the novelty wore off after 6 years and to make matters worse their direct competitors brought comparable technology into the marketplace.

Wii Sport and Wii Play were sometimes bundled with the console, but not always. Certainly bundled enough to boost the sales numbers higher than they should be. Mario Kart Wii, Wii Sports Resort, Super Mario Wii, Wii Fit, and Wii Fit plus were NOT bundled with the Wii. If the console has no decent games available how in the world do you explain 5 non-bundled games in the top 15 and 7 (including bundled) in the top 15? Further down the list you'll find Super Smash Bros and Mario Galaxy (in the top 50).

Do you know how many games the Xbox 360 and PS3 have in the top 15 combined? ZERO. Top 20? ZERO. Not until #24 do you get an Xbox 360 title and it's Kinect Adventures. You have to go all the way to #37 to find the FIRST PS3 game.

People who are paid to write video game articles were not and never will be the target audience of the Wii. The console numbers and software numbers overwhelmingly support the notion that the Wii was a successful console.


RE: The Real Problem...
By tayb on 1/27/2012 11:43:26 AM , Rating: 2
Here's a report from 2009 indicating that Wii consoles sales are starting to slowly fall likely due to market saturation and competing technologies from Microsoft and Sony. The report also details that Wii Software sales helped propel profits up.

And, the most important part, is where it talks about how Nintendo is "banking" on the success of the 3DS that was about to launch. We all know what happened with the 3DS.

http://www.1up.com/news/nintendo-profits-fall-fisc...


RE: The Real Problem...
By Paj on 1/27/2012 7:20:49 AM , Rating: 4
Dude, the Wii brought non-gamers into gaming. Grandparents, mothers, even hot chicks. People who always thought of gaming as something that nerdy virgins do suddenly realised that gaming could be heaps of fun. It became a social, interactive activity that was powered by a radical, intuitive control scheme that didnt require heaps of dexterity or arcane knowledge.

That was the Wii's USP, and it made an an absolute killing out of it. Sure, the games don't really appeal to the hardcore gaming crowd who buy every Halo game or pwn noobs on Call of Duty 8: The Musical. But it never tried to capture this market, it went after a completely different sector - the casual party gamers, the parent who wants something fun to do with their kids - and succeeded.

Yes, it was a gimmick, and yes, motion controls quickly get tiresome for you and me. The world has moved on in many ways. Nintendo went through a golden age, and now that it's over many there are scrabbling around and wondering what to do next.


RE: The Real Problem...
By Reclaimer77 on 1/27/2012 9:05:58 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Dude, the Wii brought non-gamers into gaming.


I keep seeing people bring this up in defense of the Wii. I guess my response would have to be; so what? In the context of the discussion, what does that ultimately have to do with anything?

quote:
People who always thought of gaming as something that nerdy virgins do suddenly realised that gaming could be heaps of fun.


So in other words, people who were extremely ignorant judgmental bigots had heaps of fun with the Wii? Well I guess that just blows my argument apart then.

No wait...


RE: The Real Problem...
By tayb on 1/27/2012 11:40:10 AM , Rating: 2
What argument? You're entire "argument" rests around a "nuh uh, not true" defense.

In the context of this discussion it is relevant. People are blaming the Wii for Nintendo's recent financial failures but the console was, financially, an overwhelming success. The collapse of the handheld console market and Nintendo's underwhelming and overpriced 3DS is the problem, not the console that mopped the floor with Microsoft and Sony.

His statement was obviously not meant to be taken literally but the point comes across just fine. People who were not gamers and never owned consoles went out and bought a Wii and picked up a few games. The console attracted a crowd that had never been attracted by video game consoles before. My fiance owns a Wii, on her own accord, because she wanted to do Wii Fitness and Mario Kart. Do you think she would have EVER bought an Xbox 360 pre-Kinect? No way.


RE: The Real Problem...
By Natch on 1/27/2012 9:46:14 AM , Rating: 2
When the Wii first came out, it sold like hot cakes, due to its new technology (compared to the PS & Xbox).

Now the Xbox has it's own motion detecting technology (with 2nd generation due to come out soon), I believe I heard that Sony is working on it for the playstation, and the Wii is still using the same technology as they did 4-5 years ago.

Add to that, when the Wii-U was announced, everyone thought that the original Wii consoles would be heavily discounted (which hasn't really happened), or thought they would wait until the new units came out (which has taken longer than what I, and possibly others, thought it would), both of which have hurt the sales figures of the original Wii console.

I know there's an add-on you can purchase for the Wii, that will upgrade the signal to a 1080i (if I remember right), but it's a 3rd party item. Nintendo should have come out with that themselves, IMHO.


RE: The Real Problem...
By Reclaimer77 on 1/26/2012 2:43:09 PM , Rating: 2
Sorry, but I think it's pretty obvious what happened here. The Wii was a fad, and fun for a while. Then suddenly millions of people woke up and said "Hey this is fun and all I guess, but ummm where are all the games worth buying?".


Then they went back to playing their 360's and PS3's.

Let's face it here and be serious. The vast majority of Wii purchases were impulse buys. It's simply NOT a viable gaming platform, and never really was.


RE: The Real Problem...
By adiposity on 1/26/2012 2:57:50 PM , Rating: 2
I generally agree with these sentiments, but it does seem that Wii titles (such as Zumba Fitness and Just Dance 3) are still in the top 10 titles sold on any platform. However, it probably falls off quickly after that.

The biggest issue is that Wii hardware is no longer moving like it once was, probably due to market saturation. The hardware was very profitable for them, and while once they were killing Sony and MS in sales, now they are more like 60% of MS or Sony sales. So that has an effect.

You can't make all your money on the hardware forever, because the market can only buy so many Wiis. It's not necessarily that people are sick of the Wii, it's just that they have 2-3 titles they play, and they don't need any more.

Then again, the Wii U may very well reverse this trend. We'll have to wait and see.


RE: The Real Problem...
By cruisin3style on 1/26/2012 7:30:52 PM , Rating: 2
You nailed it, I've lived this experience.

I got a XBOX 360 when I was a junior in college, and my friend got a Wii. Eventually my roommate graduated so i moved in with my Wii-owning friend and his roommates. The Wii was new to all of us, and we had a HUGE blast playing some of the sports games in the off hours of student life.

THing is after a while people started itching to play Halo 2 after i rigged up a carboard box filled with towels, and sat my 20" 1680x1050 pc monitor on it so the whole setup fit just underneath the edge of our glass living room table in front of our loveseat. We would all switch turns sitting in front of it and splitscreening, and the Wii took a back seat from then on...hell even the girls preferred Halo.


RE: The Real Problem...
By Reclaimer77 on 1/27/2012 9:01:58 AM , Rating: 2
Lol awesome Cruisin. Got a pick of that setup? I love seeing gamers Rube Goldberg up stuff hehe.

But yeah I mean, a Wii and Xbox competing for your time? Let's get real, the Wii is going to be sitting collecting dust.


RE: The Real Problem...
By ShaolinSoccer on 1/27/2012 9:49:18 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Let's get real, the Wii is going to be sitting collecting dust.


I own a Wii and PS3. Love them both. The Wii was the most innovative by far. Games like Metroid Prime 3 Corruption, Okami, Zelda Twilight Princess, Resident Evil 4, Metroid M, Silent Hill Shattered Memories and Monster Hunter 3 are all excellent games. Some of those games became even more amazing because of the motion controller. I have beaten all of those games and it was a blast! Some more than once. My parents ended up buying a Wii just for bowling. It's the only game they want to play but they have a ton of fun playing it now and then. You may not like the Wii but that's mainly because you never really gave it a chance... If you're a "true gamer", you would've found out how much fun it really is... There are still lots of games I haven't tried on the Wii that I know are going to be fun.


RE: The Real Problem...
By The0ne on 1/26/2012 8:13:30 PM , Rating: 2
Yea, really let's be serious here. Damn those tens of millions of consumers who already bought the Wii. We can only expect the whole human population to buy the Wii and raise it's yearly growth. Hell, even the top selling 3DS should have the same remark at the end of this year by your Reclaimer77. Someone as knowledgeable as you in this area has my deepest respect. Muhahahhahah *sheds tears*

Now how about we talk about the games available, the saturation of the market for Wii (believe it or not lol), and the two new and better, yet copied, motion sensors from Sony and Microsoft. These two companies, like yourself, that said motion sensing was a gimmick and all that seem to be enjoying a good dose of that dancing loving feeling eh. Hold on, crack wearing off *puff puff*.

I love your I know it all posts, it shows your prowess for being a dckhead :) While millions are enjoying gaming on their Wii you're here claiming to the whole world that it's NOT a viable gaming platform. Do us a favor and go kill yourself :D for reals, do it.


RE: The Real Problem...
By Reclaimer77 on 1/26/12, Rating: 0
RE: The Real Problem...
By augiem on 1/27/2012 2:13:40 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Then they went back to playing their 360's and PS3's.


You're making the assumption that a large percentage of Wii owners are traditional gamers who even have a 360 or PS3 to go back to. You may have multiple systems, but that doesn't mean most Wii owners do. It's well known that Wii opened up a huge untapped market of non-gamers which propelled it to the #1 spot. These are non-gamers -- they likely don't have a 360 or PS3 to go back to. Additionally, being non-gamers, they likely do not make gaming a regular part of daily life or keep up with the latest gaming news/releases. By definition, they do not regularly consume games, so it makes absolutely perfect sense they'd buy 1-4 Wii games over the course of a year or two and forget about it.

Casual gamers and hardcore gamers are very very different markets with different priorities, wants, and buying patterns. It's a mistake to think that the majority of the market that bought Wii would move on to something more "hardcore" once they got bored. Yes, that happened, but only for people who were already gamers. What happened to the rest? They probably went back to doing what they did before with their spare time. If they even still play games at all, they may have again jumped on the latest fad (as Wii was) like smartphones or Facebook games. However I imagine a lot of the nouveau market like the grandparents who played with their grandkids simply quit playing as the kids grew up.

The gaming world is diverse. Hardcore/traditional gamers are a part of it and hopefully the games will always be around to serve our needs, but we all have the face the fact that previous non-gamers (people who aren't interested in games we like) are quickly becoming the largest market. The success of smartphone and social gaming are proof.


RE: The Real Problem...
By augiem on 1/27/2012 2:31:33 PM , Rating: 2
To follow up, your argument essentially says that Nintendo needs to focus on the hardcore market to succeeed just like Sony and Microsoft. Its obvious that's not the market they went for with the Wii. They gambled that there was an untapped market and it paid off big. They were right and it worked for 5 years. However their user base has fizzled over time due to numerous factors.

Hardcore gamers are serial consumers and therefore do make a better user base because they keep purchasing new games. So in that sense, yes, a hardcore system probably has a longer lifespan in general, BUT who is to say whether Nintendo would have done anywhere close to as well trying to appeal to the hardcore audience? I for one seriously doubt it. Nintendo was a has-been in the minds of hardcore gamers when the Wii came out. For them to release a system on par with 360/PS3 at the time would have been utter suicide. Nintendo has been known as the "kiddie" console since the days of SNES (censoring adult content Sega allowed through). Do you honestly think Nintendo could have stood a chance in hell against PS3/360 in the minds of hardcore gamers? And let's not forget about cost. If you want to compete with the "big boys" hardware-wise, you must also charge their prices which would have immediately alienated the entire non-gamer/casual gamer crowd. Nintendo wouldn't have discovered their new market and they'd have floundered trying to attract the hardcore with their reputation.

I doubt 3 powerhouse game consoles can successfully co-exist in the marketplace. Nintendo filled a niche spot being the cheap, family friendly console and they did well. Its time is over.

Before the Wii, the Gamecube was a flot and Nintendo rode the 90's - 2000's out on the backs of GameBoy Advance/DS and Pokemon. That was the majority of their income and they always made a profit. They don't NEED a console to survive. But they're seriously in trouble if they can't compete with the smartphone gaming revolution. I thought Nintendo should have come out with a game phone 4 years ago, but they didn't. Evolve or die. Sad but true.


RE: The Real Problem...
By inperfectdarkness on 1/26/2012 4:11:24 PM , Rating: 3
Not exactly true, Jason. Nintendo does have a digital delivery method for gaming--it has for years. On both the DSi & Wii. And the price of games isn't really an issue (most are $5 or less). Granted, it does need some games that will deliver for the $1 range--but for what it does offer, it's a solid value.

One of the key problems for nintendo (as I see it) is the lack of top-tier 3rd-party developer support. This has been known for a while, although strangely enough, the advent of move & kinect have not helped to imbue any better offerings into the wii lineup.

Another key problem is the draconian control that sony & MS have over older game re-releases. Currently there are a litany of games that were previously released on nintendo systems, that--while available on xbox-live--are not available on virtual console. goldeneye 64 & perfect dark 64 are two great examples.

Overall, I feel this has more to do with a market that cannot handle 3 major competing factions indefinitely. I firmly believe (and still do) that MS has no business in the console market. Their entry into it has both severely hampered nintendo's viability & has equally dilluted PC game offerings. I may be alone on dailytech in thinking that nintendo needs to remain both a hardware AND software company, but i stand by that assertion. Given nintendo's deftness in bringing new gaming technology and interfaces to market--nintendo needs to retain control over hardware to allow itself the ability to manifest creating gaming content in its proper, unadulterated form.

I have high hopes for the wii-u. As console gaming has plateaued at 1080p (and will be for the foreseeable future), super-expensive GPU's will not be a pre-requisite to making next-generation consoles. Thus, without exclusive title-rights, there is likely to be a LOT of 3rd party FPS (and other) gaming overlap between consoles. The differentiating factor between consoles will be (once again) based on the appeal of 1st party offerings--and nintendo has always had the strong hand in that vein.

when the only key "driving factor" behind "hardcore" console gaming sales is rehashed remakes of BF and COD games, it will be very hard to compell this market segment to upgrade to the 8th gen ps or xbox....should the wii-u be able to handle all of the same graphic loads without issue.


RE: The Real Problem...
By someguy123 on 1/26/2012 6:26:09 PM , Rating: 2
I don't think that's necessarily true. During the 3DS launch nintendo clearly expected massive sales throughout the year at the original price point, which never happened partially due to price and partially due to the simple lack of games. The changes before the christmas season gave them a massive spike and allowed them to surpass DS numbers for launch year, but this is still months of time where the 3DS sat in limbo. At the same time, the wii lost its luster and sales plummeted, which caused huge revenue losses for the entire industry. The WiiU production is also likely part of that 575m loss.

Nintendo basically put themselves in a situation with no appealing product to buy. I know everyone speculates that the dollar mobile market is cannibalizing nintendo's demographic, but super mario 3D becoming nintendo's fastest selling portable mario game suggests games were the real limiting factor in the 3DS's success.


RE: The Real Problem...
By augiem on 1/27/2012 2:05:35 AM , Rating: 2
Digital delivery, yes. $1 games the answer? HELL NO. I'm so sick of this ITS GOTTA BE CHEAPER CHEAPER CHEAPER mentality from everyone. It's driving everything into the dumps and nobody gives a rats tuckus. It sucks for the developer and ultimately for the consumer who ends up having nothing to play contrived, canned, adware, schlock shoveled out as fast as possible because it's impossible to craft something of quality for what people want to pay for it. And then they complain the quality of everything is bad. Laugh.

Everyone wants something for nothing. No, everyone feels ENTITLED to something for nothing. World class medical care, broadband internet access (now a human right), video games... Barf. Spoiled rotten brats.


RE: The Real Problem...
By Paj on 1/27/2012 7:25:57 AM , Rating: 2
True. Also, Nintendo have always been crap at anything to do with internet or multiplayer.

I think they also need some exclusive franchises beyond Mario and Zelda. While I'm amazed that they still manage to keep the ideas in these games as fresh as anything else around, some more mature games would bring the brand to a wider audience.


WII no longer has exclusive in market
By KOOLTIME on 1/26/2012 2:23:19 PM , Rating: 2
The main deal at 1st for the Wii was the remote controller, so you could use it like no other game consoles really had before. They held that exclusive for couple years so they did well, and xbox and ps3 knew this.

Now that those systems have such controllers aka PS move and xbox kinect, the Wii being the inferior hardware of the 3 lost its holding edge due to that 1 feature of fun the others did not have. Sales were good for the Wii up untill that occured. Xbox and PS3 basically put them out of business for current. As most folks wont buy downgraded games, when the Wii doesnt even have HDMI hook up and not HD and no blue ray no 3D etc etc etc.

Wii needs a full new hardware revamp that has to out-do those 2 consoles and soon, not like they claim wait until xmas time of 2012. That will be a full year of bad sales since they dont have any edge to keep sales going any more. If Nintendo waits for 6 months or more to put out a new hardware, it will be to late. The revenue will be so bad it will cost them enough to go out of business.




RE: WII no longer has exclusive in market
By FishTankX on 1/26/2012 7:03:41 PM , Rating: 2
I think Nintendo can wait it out until 2012 Xmas because I don't think DS sales and 3DS sales have taken the whacking that the Wii has. If Nintendo truly wanted to get back in the game, they could also slash the Wii down to $130 or $100. As the PS2 has aptly proven, there is no obsolete product, just obsolete prices.


By FishTankX on 1/26/2012 7:08:11 PM , Rating: 2
Also, according to this website

http://markets.ft.com/research/Markets/Tearsheets/...

Nintendo has 13B in cash reserves, I doubt one year could do them in even if sales dropped to 0.


Console gaming isn't dead.
By troysavary on 1/26/2012 12:06:37 PM , Rating: 4
Microsoft seems to have no trouble making money on the X-Box. Game attach rate is still very high, and there is plenty of anticipation for the next-gen console.

What is most likely dead is casual gming on the console, and also handheld consols. Unfortunately, this are Nintendo's two key markets. Handhelds are being replaced by phones and tablets, obviously. Nintndo can't do anything about that except maybe extend the capabilities of there handhelds to do more of the things people do on phones. Of course, people might balk at the idea of a data plan for their 3DS 3G, or whatever.

As far as the home console market goes, the decline of the Wii was prdicted by gamers years ago. Party game shovelware cannot support a console for long. Nintendo has to cater to gamers, as the "casual" market is fickle. Maybe th Wii U will change things, but it may be too late. The Wii U will have to overcome the reputation of crappy third-party support.




Nintendo needs to stop the gimmicks...
By Wolfpup on 1/26/2012 1:21:32 PM , Rating: 1
First the touch screen, then they rerelease the Gamecube with a new, inferior controller, then "3D", and now ANOTHER gimmicky controller with this time hardware roughly on par with the now 5-6 year old current gen systems.

Gimmicks can sell for a while, but...

I REALLY hope they go back to the drawing board with Wii U. Use a normal controller (and Wii controllers too as an alternate, if they want), and boost the specs so it's hopefully competitive with the Playstation 4, or at least not a total joke assuming it launches a few years earlier. You don't release an Xbox 360 competitor SEVEN YEARS after the Xbox 360 comes out!

I LIKE Nintendo, I loved my Gamecube, and...I want them to go back to being a serious game company again. (And yes, I have a Wii and have enjoyed quite a number of games, but...)




By tarv on 1/26/2012 2:06:32 PM , Rating: 2
From the reports I read, it looks like the Wii-U is going to be in the same ballpark powerwise to the next xbox. Nintendo is using a 4870 and Microsoft is going with the 6670. I am still using a 4870 and its been a great care for me.


By Chadder007 on 1/26/2012 2:46:05 PM , Rating: 1
Agreed, they need to scrap the Wii 2. It looks like an absolute joke.


By EricMartello on 1/27/2012 1:46:59 AM , Rating: 2
1) The Wii is a gamecube with a new case. The technology behind it is more than a decade old and has never been able to compete with the likes of PS3 or Xbox. A gimmick controller is not enough.

2) The portable gaming market was great for Nintendo due to a general lack of competition. Here's the kicker - if you're doing well solely because there is no competition, you are not actually doing well. You are simply the only game in town.

3) The lower prices of downloadable mobile games were certainly a contributor, but unlike previous attempts at taking a slice out of Nintendo's portable gaming market share, the mobile games were able to move in due to the large quantity of games available.

4) I do not want to play a complex game on a mobile device where I cannot enjoy it - i.e. an RPG. For those kinds of games I would like to play them on a console or PC. If I do play a mobile game, I'd prefer one that is quick to start and stop and not too "deep". I think it is a fair assessment to say that most people feel the same way. This is why a #3 worked out.

5) Nintendo used to be innovative but they seem to have stopped that innovation after their SNES. I really wish they'd step up their game and give us current day equivalent of what the SNES was - not just in terms of technology but also in terms of game library.

6) Consoles are not dead, but the competition is fiercer and with high-end hardware available as a commodity (rather than something the requires exclusive R&D), the game makers are going to have to distinguish their systems almost entirely on the library of games available for it.

a) Make the console easy to develop for, for ALL developers.

b) Copy Apple and make an "game store" for people to create and sell their own games. Microsoft is clued into this one already with XBL Arcade.

c) Produce some NEW first party games and not just continuations of first party games that were popular in 1985.




Vision...
By RuptureX on 1/29/2012 11:11:11 AM , Rating: 2
Well for me (and maybe most of people out there)the situation is seen this exact way:

Nintendo: Games for children
PS/360: Games for teens and grow ups

Man I just cant change this image on my mind, when I see a nintendo I can just imagine games focused on children.




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