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High Commissioner stationed in Australia takes victims to task for their role in supporting mail fraud

Professor Olu Agbi, the Nigerian high commissioner stationed in Australia, says the perpetrators behind his country’s e-mail based financial scams aren’t the only one who should be punished -- the victims, blinded by their greed and excitement, should be thrown in jail as well.

According to the Sydney Morning Herald, Agbi’s comments came from a Thursday-morning report accusing Nigerian fraudsters of scamming Australian citizens out of nearly $3 million a month – or almost $36 million a year.

Nigeria receives a “bad image” as a result of its reputation as a haven for e-mail, mail, and bank fraud, says Agbi, and those who wish to do legitimate business with his country are “always very suspicious.”

“The Nigerian Government frowns very seriously on these scams … and every day tries to track down those who are involved,” he said, noting that less than one tenth of a percent of the country’s 140 million people are involved in any kind of scamming. “It is not in the character of Nigerians to be engaged in this kind of scam.”

Rather, he says, the people involved at the receiving end of Nigerian scams – “greedy” Australians, in his words – should be arrested as well, for their role in supporting Nigerian-based scammers who find their marks around the world.

Around the world, figures on losses from “419 fraud” vary wildly. A BBC report published in 2006 said the UK loses around £150m ($278m USD) per year to Nigerian mail scams, while the US-based Internet Crime Complaint Center’s annual Internet Crime Report revealed that just over one percent of the complaints it received in 2007, totaling $239m, came from 419 scams. In almost all cases, the average losses per victim tend to hover around a couple thousand dollars.

“People who send their money are as guilty as those who are asking them to send the money,” Agbi said.

Detective Superintendent Col Dyson, head of the New South Wales police service’s fraud squad, expressed willingness to work with the Nigerian government on an education campaign for warning potential victims, which he likened to gambling addicts – addicted to the thrill of a large possible windfall.

“The bottom line is anything that sounds too good to be true is too good to be true,” said Dyson.

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The poor stealing from the poor
By DOSGuy on 8/25/2008 2:14:27 AM , Rating: 4
"Professor Olu Agbi, the Nigerian high commissioner stationed in Australia, says... the victims, blinded by their greed and excitement, should be thrown in jail as well."

Boy, does this guy ever not get it. It's not greed and excitement that fools the victims, it's desperation. The people who end up falling for these scams are usually desperately poor, often unemployed, and hoping against hope that the bank might actually honor the check.

A reporter once asked some Nigerian scammers if they felt any remorse, and they replied that Americans are so rich that they wouldn't miss the money. They don't understand that everything is relative. Yes, most people in the West have more money than people make in a year in some Third World countries, but the cost of living is also proportionately higher. A person making minimum wage in the U.S. might appear to be rich to someone in Nigeria, where the GDP per capita is $1500, but if you can't afford food and rent, you're just as poor whether you make $5 an hour or $5 a week. Poverty is relative. They think of their scams as victimless crimes, but these guys are preying on the most vulnerable members of our society. If they lose $1000 in one of these scams, it could ruin them. I would hope that a professor would understand that.




RE: The poor stealing from the poor
By Samus on 8/25/2008 3:05:40 AM , Rating: 5
It is not greed. It's ignorance...and some desperation, because who's ganna turn down free money unless you already have a lot.

Hmm, that logic is somewhat flawed...we're talking about money, after all.


RE: The poor stealing from the poor
By Omega215D on 8/25/2008 4:19:55 AM , Rating: 4
instead this guy should be working to end the kkleptocracy that seems to be ruling poorer countries such as his.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kleptocracy


RE: The poor stealing from the poor
By 7Enigma on 8/27/2008 12:04:09 PM , Rating: 1
Hmmm...that description seems to fit our country (US) quite well.


RE: The poor stealing from the poor
By BikeDude on 8/25/2008 5:29:34 AM , Rating: 2
"You can't con an honest man"

Maybe that isn't always true, but... in more than half of these cases, I would be surprised if it wasn't.


RE: The poor stealing from the poor
By mmcdonalataocdotgov on 8/25/2008 7:48:09 AM , Rating: 2
That is an old saw: You can't cheat an honest man. I believe it applies here. In most of the scam emails I get, it is some scheme to sneak money out of the host country illegally to avoid estate taxes, or some other dodge. So the emailer is asking for the victim's complicity in an illegal act, which is probably why many of the scams are not reported. An honest person wouldn't get involved, no matter how rich or poor they were.


RE: The poor stealing from the poor
By mindless1 on 8/25/2008 8:53:12 AM , Rating: 1
You have a strange definition of honest. Foolish, naive, gullible perhaps but the term honest simply isn't applicable unless talking about the instigators of the crime.


RE: The poor stealing from the poor
By SilthDraeth on 8/25/2008 10:35:01 AM , Rating: 2
I think you are the one with the strange definition of honesty. I received one of the scam emails. This is what it said in a nutshell:

"My client died, and the estate is going to be released to the government if I don't find a beneficiary. You share the same last name as the deceased, so I need you to claim you are a relative of the deceased. Don't worry, this isn't illegal. For your trouble you get 40% and I get 60%. Please contact me as quickly as possible."

So you think it is foolish, naive, and gullible? True, but it is also dishonest to claim that you are the relative of a deceased person that you know are not.


RE: The poor stealing from the poor
By fic2 on 8/25/2008 12:41:42 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Don't worry, this isn't illegal.

But right there in the email it says it isn't illegal! So how can it not be legit?!?

BTW, for the huge number of people reading this that are sarcasm impaired, this is it - learn it, know it, live it.

Also, I agree with SilthDraeth the previous poster has strange definition of honesty.


By JonnyDough on 8/26/2008 4:15:39 AM , Rating: 2
Neither is driving 140mph on Interstate 80! You should do it next time you're out to save time so that you can enjoy your vacation longer!

Just because something you read says it's legal does not mean that it is. I know here in America we have a "plead the fifth" law, but I don't believe that it readily applies to most situations.

A lack of awareness or the laziness to systematically research or check with authoritative sources is not an excuse. I'm sorry, but even kids know to "ask daddy if it's ok if the stranger touches me there" sometimes.

I say let nature sort them out. If they get swindled it's because they have a false belief that human beings are inherently good. At some point growing up you're likely to be lied to or have the neighbor kid throw sand in your eyes even though you thought he was your friend. When I was in 7th grade I got sucker punched by my friend and had a shiner for 2 weeks. You learn who your friends are pretty fast, and if you trust someone online that you've never met or had dealings with you're a moron. Survival of the fittest. Let the morons go hungry and no longer breed so that the future of mankind might shine a bit brighter. If the dirty doers eat a little better and have kids that they raise up to be bastards too well...at some point luck runs out and if you're lucky you get caught and go to jail. I don't know about you but if I find out my entire life was torn from me by a no good bastard I'm liable to hunt him down. Again, survival of those that don't take no crap.

There is a reason that a lot of business, particularly international business keeps the airlines going. It's because a face to face chat and a handshake still go a long way. No serious corporation will do business with another corporation without knowing exactly who they're dealing with, and that means a board of directors, or a representative of the company. Unfortunately, there is still the occasional Enron. Most large corporations are not exactly on the up and up IMO though.


By Icelight on 8/25/2008 9:15:25 AM , Rating: 2
Don't worry, I'm sure he got his degree from a rich Nigerian prince who was on his death bed and wanted only to pass his knowledge on to one lucky individual. Of course, in order for it to be legitimized the individual would have to pay a $10 000 temporary fee (which would be refunded in triplicate once the education was finished).


RE: The poor stealing from the poor
By masher2 (blog) on 8/25/2008 9:38:36 AM , Rating: 1
> "The people who end up falling for these scams are usually desperately poor, often unemployed..."

I've seen many high-profile cases where the victims lost in excess of $50K each. The scam starts with you sending a bundle overseas...I don't think people unable to buy food are the normal victims here.


RE: The poor stealing from the poor
By DOSGuy on 8/25/2008 2:43:30 PM , Rating: 2
I think those cases are probably the exception, since obviously not very many people have $50,000 to send. Such cases are not just newsworthy for the amount of money involved, but also for the rarity of such extreme cases.

The scammers are smart enough to target the masses. I wish I had a dollar for every time one of my eBay auctions was won by someone who sent me a fake PayPal receipt and wanted me to ship to Nigeria. There are the "cash this check for me" scams, the "you've won a lottery and just need to pay the taxes" scams, and the "help me launder this money" scams. The scams are diverse, but the people who generally take a chance on these things are often poor, unemployed, elderly, or mentally ill. In other words, the most vulnerable members of society. The people who fall prey to these scams don't have much money to lose. This is the poor stealing from the poor; the vulnerable preying on the vulnerable.


RE: The poor stealing from the poor
By Keeir on 8/25/2008 3:36:38 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
I've seen many high-profile cases where the victims lost in excess of $50K each.


Just dig through to the data (in the article). I looked up the State of Washington. In the State of Washington, 1.7% of fraud complaints were Nigeria Letter scans. The high loss was over 100,000 dollars. The average was only ~1,600 dollars however.

The majority of the US (the lower 66% of wage earners) really can't afford to lose 1,600 dollars. At least, thats 1+ month of mortage payment or 2 months of rent, 3 months of car payments, 6 months of gas, or 4 months of food. Or another way to look at it, at around 15 dollars an hour (roughly the average hourly wager of people in the State of Washington) its almost 3 weeks of pay.

I agree with the poster that said the majority of victims are probably desperate with little to no major savings and are willing to take a chance.


RE: The poor stealing from the poor
By Zoomer on 8/26/2008 9:34:59 PM , Rating: 2
If one cannot afford to have 6 weeks of pay magically disapper for some reason, they seriously need to relook their finances.

6 months would be a better buffer.


RE: The poor stealing from the poor
By 7Enigma on 8/27/2008 12:07:35 PM , Rating: 2
You seriously need to look at the people around you. The average person has no where near 6 weeks of pay as emergency fund. That wonderful negative savings rate as a country is making things so much better, and by better I mean worse.

"Isn't that what the credit card is for?"


RE: The poor stealing from the poor
By JonnyDough on 8/26/2008 4:19:36 AM , Rating: 2
Why does this have the reminiscent tone of Christian television "save the third world country kids" ads?

By the way, if anyone needs forgiveness so they don't burn in Hell for eternity, I'm selling some cheap penance for about $5 a pop.


By JKflipflop98 on 8/26/2008 1:01:38 PM , Rating: 2
Because the "feed the poor starving children" scam is a mutation of the "Help me get my late father's money out of Nigeria" scam. It's just inverse.

Difference being, christian con artists have money to spend on TV commercials.


I agree
By abzillah on 8/25/2008 1:22:50 AM , Rating: 2
Well, I agree to a point, not that people's greed should put them in jail, but for being stupid enough to fall victim of the scam. The emails that I got saying that:
There is a treasure box worth 100000000 zillion dollars in a safe and the only way to get that money is for you to send them 10,000 dollars and they will give you 1000000 billion dollars.
I would never fall for such a stupid thing, and those that do don't deserve to be on the internet and need their computers taken away.




RE: I agree
By afkrotch on 8/25/2008 2:00:40 AM , Rating: 2
If they are dumb enough to fall for it, let them fall for it. I have my email set to junk anything with the word "million" in the Subject or inside the email. Anyone I know is told not to put million in their email.


RE: I agree
By Cullinaire on 8/25/2008 6:07:38 AM , Rating: 2
Good idea; I propose the following instead: 1000²


RE: I agree
By mindless1 on 8/25/2008 8:57:57 AM , Rating: 2
Congratulations, we finally found our long lost heir to the Ndukwe 100 mlLLlon dollar fortune!


RE: I agree
By Fracture on 8/25/2008 9:41:56 AM , Rating: 2
To me, this is nothing more than the latest iteration of survival of the fittest, with an information age twist.

I could spend all day spouting cliche phrases like "a fool and his money are soon parted", but I'd rather highlight the fact that these scams aren't targeting the mentally handicapped, children, etc with these activities.

The fact that fully functioning adults fall for this is punishment enough; their money has been "appropriated" and jail seems a bit excessive. It's as if it were some sort of twisted reverse-bond - you pay to get into jail!

I say let them wallow in the realization that they've been had for a while longer.


What a mindset
By mars2k on 8/25/2008 4:09:56 AM , Rating: 5
Wow, and serial rapists only rape because their victims have genitals! Doesn't that attitude about crime, "the victims brought it on themselves" make it a little too easy for the bad guys to justify what they are doing? If this is the government's stance on the problem why would anybody want to do business in Nigeria for any reason?
OK so how about the 150 scam emails that I get on a daily basis from these Nigerian pirates. I haven't "asked" for any of those but they clog my email server and the Internet using up services that I pay for. Taken collectively doesn't the financial burden reach into the millions. Who is responsible for that? Oh yeah me right? After all if I didn't have an email address it wouldn't happen?
How did this guy get his job? Sharing scam profits maybe?




RE: What a mindset
By FITCamaro on 8/25/2008 5:46:26 AM , Rating: 1
Seriously. You hit the nail on the head.

As far as the junk emails, I probably get them, but they go straight into my junk email folder so I never see them except when I empty it.

But I still have to wonder how dumb someone has to be to fall for this crap.


RE: What a mindset
By kelmon on 8/25/2008 1:14:55 PM , Rating: 2
What utter nonsense. In no way can you compare this to rape, murder, or anything else of the kind. I would agree that a scam victim does not "bring it on themselves" but rather a previous victim did. Until "victims" stop falling for this rubbish then the scammers will continue. As I said in my earlier comment this is a simple case of supply & demand - the supply of these scams will continue until people stop "buying" the product.

By all means blame the person sending the scam emails to you but just bare in mind that the only reason they are doing it is because some idiot fell for scam previously. In that respect you can blame them as well.


RE: What a mindset
By DOSGuy on 8/25/2008 1:21:56 PM , Rating: 2
I still disagree with this idea that the scammers would disappear if people stopped "buying" their product. I don't think very many people fall for these scams. The GDP per capita in Nigeria is $1500. If a scammer sends a million emails and even one of them falls for it, he makes more money than he would make in a year. From that perspective, it would be worth spending an entire year to con even one person. Even if no one in the whole world was buying, it would be worth trying for at least a year unless a better way to make money came along. There will always be supply, even if there isn't demand. You were right in what you said earlier, that the real solution to stopping the scammers is to improve unemployment in the places where they live.


Poor?
By topperjtopperj on 8/25/2008 10:17:29 AM , Rating: 2
"The people who end up falling for these scams are usually desperately poor, often unemployed, and hoping against hope that the bank might actually honor the check."
Please, spare me. "Desperately poor" and "often unemployed" people don't belong on the internet, spending money on e-mail accounts. These are just stupid people trying to make a quick buck.




RE: Poor?
By DOSGuy on 8/25/2008 12:08:44 PM , Rating: 2
How do you know they're spending money on email accounts? They could be using the internet from a public library using a free Hotmail account. And yes, the unemployed absolutely belong on the internet. Have you ever heard of Monster, Jobshark, Workopolis, or Craigslist? The internet is one of the most important resources for unemployed people. That's why they have internet access at the unemployment office (at least here in Canada).


RE: Poor?
By kelmon on 8/25/2008 1:19:52 PM , Rating: 2
True, but there's no excuse for falling for one of these scams. I hate to say that it's Darwinian theory in action, not least because the successful scammers really are the scum of the earth and should not be permitted to breed, but people stupid enough to fall for one of these scams really need to smarten up. And, yes, I do think that it's greed that is driving them and that is not something to be either encouraged or accepted.


Its not uncomon, its pratically thier culture
By ziggo on 8/25/2008 10:25:13 AM , Rating: 2
I have been to Nigeria. I won't be going back. There were some very nice people there, but to say this behavior is uncommon is a lie. Particularly from someone in the government. Their leaders are not there to lead, they are there to steal the oil profits and then hightail it out of the country.

I was there for a summit that was trying to encourage business development in Africa. When we were leaving they scammed the airline for a $60,000 bribe to fuel the plane. We were stuck in the airport for almost 10 hours, getting eaten alive by mosquitoes. Once we got on the plane, they wanted another $1,000 to push it away from the terminal. It is this short-sightedness and corruption that keeps the whole continent in ruins. I don't thing anyone that went to that summit will be investing in Africa anytime soon.




By cruzer on 8/25/2008 10:40:23 AM , Rating: 2
What a nightmare!


By kelmon on 8/25/2008 1:24:33 PM , Rating: 2
It's particularly sad because there are people in Africa who desperately need help but their government is too busy taking what they can to care and the outside world is put off from helping because they know the money will just disappear. Unfortunately, they need to help themselves before things will get better and I just don't see that happening.


It's not all about greed
By cgmicro on 8/25/2008 1:31:07 PM , Rating: 3
I am a security professional, I work in trying to prevent this sort of thing. I was a victim of the old 419 a few years ago, and no red flags went off until the money part came into play. I was looking for a roommate on a reputable US based site. I got a response from an Irish woman looking for a room in my city. Everything went fine, we traded emails, etc. She was stuck in Nigeria on a contract and trying to get out, and her US employer had sent her a check, but she couldn't cash it there to get out. Then we get into the whole Western Union thing I won't bore you with. Because I have some contacts, I started working with the Secret Service to catch this person, and had to string 'her' along while they investigated. After a few days, I was actually getting calls on my cell from her 'travel agent' from a number in Vermont that was not in service. I honestly felt bad for this woman and wanted to help get her out of Africa. If I didn't deal with this kind of thing for a living, I might have done it. The Secret Service finally came back and said they didn't want to investigate any further, it was initially a favor, but they said the 419's were a dime a dozen and not worth their time.

So...for all you people who are knocking the stupid American, saying that it's the poor who are looking to make some cash, or that it's the gamblers and the greedy who fall for this stuff, think again. In my case, it was simply to have a warm body in the next room sharing my rent. It's rediculous to think that if I had fallen for the scam, and been out the $5k that I would have lost, that I would have to face jail as well! Get real people, Americans are being taken for their trusting nature and no one is going to do anything about it.




RE: It's not all about greed
By 7Enigma on 8/27/2008 12:13:48 PM , Rating: 1
"She was stuck in Nigeria on a contract and trying to get out, and her US employer had sent her a check, but she couldn't cash it there to get out. Then we get into the whole Western Union thing I won't bore you with."

HAHAHAHAHAH! OK, OK, I've caught my breath. Please, I beg of you, quit your job as a "security professional", you clearly do not have the "right" credentials.


By kilkennycat on 8/25/2008 1:20:44 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
.... less than one tenth of a percent of the country’s 140 million people are involved in any kind of scamming.


Er, if my math is right that is 140,000 people involved in a single type of illegal activity. No mention as to what percentage of those are now in jail.... Kettles calling pots black??




By FITCamaro on 8/25/2008 5:47:57 AM , Rating: 1
People in Nigeria are mostly black so the kettles are correct. :)


email verification
By Screwballl on 8/25/2008 10:23:55 AM , Rating: 2
There needs to be an email verification system. This is one thing that all the major players need to jump in on, a verification system to prevent 99.9% of the worlds spam. Not only will that stop the scams, spams and viruses but also free up 80% of the world's bandwidth on the internet.
Then Comcrap can stop tampering with traffic and VoIP and IPTV can start to take off.




RE: email verification
By phazers on 8/25/2008 4:41:33 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
There needs to be an email verification system.


I believe that Intel and Microsoft proposed a CPU serial number system over 10 years ago, where some TCP packets would be watermarked with the CPU serial number and hence the packets made traceable. Of course the privacy advocates burnt holes in their shorts screaming about freedom and the divine right to anonymity, so that the user would have to enable the serial number on the CPU, which is why something like 75% or more of email is spam.

Not much "free" about freedom...


Fight back?
By CatfishKhan on 8/25/2008 11:26:43 AM , Rating: 2
I wonder if it would be possible to have email clients automatically sent fake responses back to these scam emails. If the scammers were flooded with enough fake email responses, it might be tough for them to find the real responses and make it very difficult for them to do business. We already have firefox add-ons to block those annoying ads, so why not something like this too?




If they didn't want to be raped,
By MrPickins on 8/25/2008 11:54:01 AM , Rating: 2
then they wouldn't dress like that...




Too good to be true?
By ZmaxDP on 8/25/2008 4:17:50 PM , Rating: 2
“The bottom line is anything that sounds too good to be true is too good to be true,” said Dyson.

Dyson then followed up with a sales pitch about his revolutionary vacuum cleaner which never clogs or looses suction, will last your lifetime (right), turns "on a ball. No, literally", and will make you love vacuuming - all for only $499.99.

(Yes, I know it is a different Dyson. ...Joke...)




Idiots.
By Dean364 on 8/25/2008 4:47:49 PM , Rating: 2
Idiots.

Enough said.




illegal?
By MamiyaOtaru on 8/25/2008 6:42:33 PM , Rating: 2
Not all scams promote illegal activities. I have little sympathy for people who fall for ones that do, but scammers aren't going to limit themselves to people who are willing to do something illegal.

A business associate of my grandfather fell for a scam a while back. He's basically the most trusting person ever, especially when it comes to people who go to the same church he does, which the scammer purported to do.

I don't know all the details but it was some business proposal that involved the other party needing some capital to get going, which my grandfather's friend was willing to help out with out of a combination of charity and the belief that the investment would provide a return.

Next thing you know he's in London being told the bank won't take an American check (something like that) and the payment needs to be cash. It was made, after which the perp disappeared never to be seen again.

Somewhere in there was some monumental stupidity. At the very latest, when he was handing over cash. My point though is that nothing appeared illegal to my grandfather's friend. He wasn't necessarily even being overly greedy, there was no guarantee the perp's "business" idea would work out and provide any return.

I know the victim personally and I don't know many better hearted men. In light of this scam I think he's a little soft in the head, but that's shouldn't be a jailable offense.

It's easy to mock the victims until you know one, easy to think they are all greedy people willing to participate in illegal activities until you realize not all scams work that way. And yeah, this Nigerian government guy is not helping his country's case. That sort of attitude would give me additional pause before doing anything there.




scamorama
By Chaser on 8/26/2008 8:09:43 AM , Rating: 2
I cannot begin to convey how much these leaches infuriate me. But there is a website that in a limited fashion strikes back at some of these scum. They take them for a long ride with clever stories that take advantage of their somewhat limited english skills that degrade as the "scam" advances. In a couple cases they had the scammer convinced so well he had a "live one" they were able to get HIM to wire a few dollars to them as an act of "good faith".

http://www.scamorama.com/




Poeple who fall for the scam are idiots
By Nik00117 on 8/25/08, Rating: -1
RE: Poeple who fall for the scam are idiots
By Noya on 8/25/2008 4:04:31 AM , Rating: 2
I've actually replied back and chatted with a scammer. It's not as if it's individual people scamming, it's "rings" of people, with the email scammers at the bottom- similar to the corner drug pusher.


RE: Poeple who fall for the scam are idiots
By Spivonious on 8/25/2008 10:10:59 AM , Rating: 3
www.scamorama.com has a bunch of email communications with the scammers. They are hilarious!


By wempa on 8/25/2008 12:40:59 PM , Rating: 2
These are great !! :)


RE: Poeple who fall for the scam are idiots
By Lerianis on 8/25/2008 4:26:05 AM , Rating: 2
You have a point, but let's realize who the people are that these scammers are targeting in most cases: the extremely poor, who work their asses off but cannot get ahead in life; the extremely naive, who believe that no one would steal from someone else; and the extremely greedy, who have a lot of money yet always want more.

Those three kinds of people have a kind of 'blinders' on: made from desperation, naivete/belief in the good of the rest of man, and greed.

In the first two cases, I can relate and sympathize. In the last one, I cannot but the last one is an extremely small percentage of the people who are falling for these scams.


RE: Poeple who fall for the scam are idiots
By mindless1 on 8/25/2008 9:02:26 AM , Rating: 4
Poor? No. Greedy? No. The poor don't have the money to send and the greedy are too money-conscious to let go of any.

The victims are the mentally ill. The lady down the street from you who saved her money for years and has no common sense because of mental defect or senile dementia.


RE: Poeple who fall for the scam are idiots
By JediJeb on 8/25/2008 2:01:37 PM , Rating: 2
True, but some are not mentally ill, many are just the simple older person who lived in a time when most people could be trusted. I am only 41 but where I grew up noone locked their doors, even now most don't, but once you see how the world really is you begin to learn to distrust more than you trust, and that is really sad.

Seems the majority here believe that innocense is a crime and that everyone in the world young and old should be cynical and distrusting of everyone else. I pity the people who have never experienced how peaceful living in a time and place where trust was common can be. But those places are all but extinct now. To me anyone who preys on the innocent deserves a torture of undescribable proportions, but instead today we just beat down the victims and tell them they should learn to be mean and cruel just like everyone else. No wonder society has become such a depressing place to live in these days.


By mindless1 on 8/28/2008 9:41:20 AM , Rating: 2
If they USED to live in a time when most people could be trusted, but somehow didn't see the world around them as it changed, to recognize that today things are a bit different, then they'd fall into that senile dementia category.

Being naive, even demented is not a crime and they do not deserve what happens to them at all.

Society has become a depressing place because mankind came up with a lot more fancy toys that caused people to be more greedy to have them. Then there's the evolution of the 3rd world markets that the 1st world used to exploit, eventually there will be near parity among global citizens.


RE: Poeple who fall for the scam are idiots
By FITCamaro on 8/25/2008 5:44:26 AM , Rating: 4
If you're going to call people idiots you should learn to spell.


RE: Poeple who fall for the scam are idiots
By kelmon on 8/25/2008 1:35:55 PM , Rating: 2
It doesn't count for much but +1 to you, sir.


By ZmaxDP on 8/25/2008 4:20:19 PM , Rating: 2
Indeed, I'd plus five you if I could. Certain kinds of stupidity can be tolerated, other kinds should not...


RE: Poeple who fall for the scam are idiots
By icanhascpu on 8/25/2008 5:35:09 PM , Rating: 2
If youre smart enough to understand irony, perhaps your smart enough to get through a few typos. Dont be a whore.


By JonnyDough on 8/26/2008 4:22:57 AM , Rating: 2
I can't help it. It's genetic. I'm male.


By piroroadkill on 8/26/2008 5:07:54 AM , Rating: 2
"your" smart enough?

Clearly not


Supply & Demand
By kelmon on 8/25/08, Rating: -1
RE: Supply & Demand
By camylarde on 8/25/2008 6:58:16 AM , Rating: 2
Oh yeah, I got robbed a few times and I never catched the thief. Sue me for this, as the thief certainly robbed somebody else after me.


RE: Supply & Demand
By kelmon on 8/25/2008 1:06:37 PM , Rating: 2
Well, if you weren't threatened and you handed over your wallet voluntarily because the other guy promised to give you more back in return then I'd suggest that you got what was coming to you. Please note, however, that I am not suggesting that the victims be criminalised. Rather I am agreeing with the principle that without gullible idiots who believe that someone is going to give them money for nothing then there wouldn't be this problem in the first place. Certainly I have limited sympathy for those where greed got the better of them.


RE: Supply & Demand
By DOSGuy on 8/25/2008 12:02:52 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
If people stop falling for these things then the scammers won't see a return on their investment and they'll move on to doing something else.


You realize that their investment is almost $0, right? It costs them almost nothing to send millions of these emails, and if even one of them succeeds, they've gotten their investment back a thousand times over. Besides, what else would they move on to? It's not like they have jobs at Intel waiting for them.


RE: Supply & Demand
By kelmon on 8/25/2008 1:02:08 PM , Rating: 2
Well, that was part of my point. With unemployment in Nigeria running at about 13% in urban areas it is the government's responsibility to ensure that there are jobs that the scammers can do. Clearly there is no point cracking down on this practice if all the scammers are going to do is move onto something else that's just as bad.

However, I do disagree that their investment is almost $0. Sure, it costs them very little to send a load of emails but I don't think anyone just immediately hands over their bank account details, not least because the initial communication normally doesn't ask for it. I am quite certain that the scammer has to invest time gaining the other person's trust and that's time that could be spent doing something else (the "opportunity cost" of scamming, if you like). Certainly the scammers will enter into dialog with you and at this point they can't just copy/paste stuff. Heck, I had one contact me via Skype and it was about 30-minutes of chat before it became clear that this wasn't just someone who wanted to talk. After that point I wasted their time for the next hour and told them to sod off.


RE: Supply & Demand
By DOSGuy on 8/25/2008 1:15:44 PM , Rating: 2
That costs them time, but not money. Your time is only worth money if you could be making money by doing something else during that time. That's where I fully agree with your first paragraph. If there were more jobs, there would be less scammers.


RE: Supply & Demand
By kelmon on 8/25/2008 1:31:22 PM , Rating: 2
Indeed, it is hard to say what the alternatives are and that's going to depend a lot on how successful a scammer can be per month. If there really is absolutely nothing else that they can do with their time then that's going to represent a real problem since they will not give up scamming until no one falls for them. We can only hope that this is not the case (unemployment is much lower in the countryside, apparently, so perhaps they can find work there is they get off their lazy ass) and that people get smart enough such that the number of successful scams falls low enough that they go and do something else.

This is probably a pipe dream.


RE: Supply & Demand
By rhangman on 8/25/2008 9:25:44 PM , Rating: 2
I would imagine that PC's and internet access are at somewhat of a premium over there. If someone isn't performing well with their scams, then their team leader (these are syndicates, not just individuals who can't find a job) would find someone else. If no one was having success, then they would definitely start trying different approaches. Also you have to remember that Nigeria is only part of the equation. The good scams involve people over multiple continents with the victim being referred to say a "bank" somewhere in Europe, etc. to make things appear more legit.

Really ISP's should send an information pack to new customers covering stuff like this. That way you could really blame the victims since they would at least have been warned (not required I would think for anyone reading this).


RE: Supply & Demand
By JonnyDough on 8/26/2008 4:21:24 AM , Rating: 2
It's the government's responsibility to give us jobs now? Hmm. Job please! I'll take one that nets me $500K a year if you have one.


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