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Toyota plans to go full-bore with third-generation Prius.

When someone tosses around the word "hybrid", one vehicle typically first comes to mind: the Toyota Prius. The first generation model was introduced in ‘00 as a '01 model while the second generation model came out in '03 as an '04 model.

The original Prius got Americans talking about hybrid vehicles, but it was the second generation model that really set things in motion for Toyota and its aim to equip the bulk of its lineup with hybrid technology. The second generation Prius -- classified as a mid-size sedan -- manages to achieve EPA ratings of 48 MPG/45 MPG city/highway thanks to its 1.5-liter gasoline engine and its hybrid-electric system.

Toyota is looking to boost the appeal and size of the third generation Prius which is due to be unveiled at the 2009 Detroit Auto Show. The vehicle will catch the disease that seems to afflict every new vehicle redesign these days:  further increases in exterior dimensions. According to AutoObserver, the next Prius will gain roughly four inches in length and an inch in width.

The larger Prius will also be powered by a new 1.8 liter gasoline engine. Power will increase from 75 HP today to around 100 HP. This will push the combined gasoline engine/Hybrid Synergy Drive combination to 160 HP. The increased displacement should allow the third generation Prius to accelerate faster and should squash any performance complaints leveled against the current model.

As stated in previous DailyTech articles, the third generation Prius will continue using nickel-metal hydride batteries for its initial run. Toyota will switch over to more efficient lithium-ion batteries as soon as performance, safety, and production concerns are ironed out. The use of lithium-ion batteries should also allow for better packing efficiencies and a longer driving range when operating in electric-only mode.

In addition, Toyota is also looking to expand the Prius family to include two additional models. Toyota is tossing around the idea of Prius vehicles both larger and smaller than the upcoming third generation model.

Toyota's Prius is a vehicle that is quite polarizing to automotive enthusiasts. In one camp, you have adoring owners/fans who love the fuel efficiency and the idea that they are driving a "green vehicle." Detractors, however, like to point out the "smugness" of Prius drivers; the odd, tadpole-esque design of the vehicle; and the fact that diesel vehicles can approach, match, or exceed the levels achieved by the Prius.

The third generation model likely will do nothing to stop these two camps from throwing rocks at each other while Toyota continues to rack up sales and bask in the spotlight as an "environmentally friendly" automaker.

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Hmm
By Spivonious on 4/29/2008 4:19:08 PM , Rating: 3
So they make the car bigger, give it a bigger engine....I smell decreasing gas mileage. They better hope it stays above 40 or no one with half a brain will be buying a Prius.




RE: Hmm
By Brandon Hill (blog) on 4/29/2008 4:22:16 PM , Rating: 4
I don't get why they need to make it bigger. I mean, isn't that what the Camry Hybrid is for?

I guess people just need to be "unique" and have it with a Prius badge/design.


RE: Hmm
By giantpandaman2 on 4/29/2008 4:51:43 PM , Rating: 4
They made it bigger but not significantly heavier. This is probably in preparation for Toyota to segment the Prius into a brand. The source article states that two new models, a small Prius and a luxury one, are in the works.

Personally, I'm wondering what's keeping Toyota from putting a turbo or using direct injection with the Synergy drive. Would it make the engines too complex? I really wish some engineers would do an interview of Toyota's design team so we could see a bit more about their views of the future of automotive fuel efficiency.


RE: Hmm
By Spuke on 4/29/2008 5:09:14 PM , Rating: 2
DI isn't complex at all, mechanically. The only added part is the high pressure, cam driven fuel pump. Everything else is just a replacement of what would already be there (fuel lines, injectors, etc).


RE: Hmm
By Andrevas on 4/29/2008 5:27:05 PM , Rating: 2
a direct injected miller cycle (atkinson cycle w/ forced induction) engine would be nice, however the actual fuel mileage benefits of current DI setups remain to be seen until technology to operate stratified injection modes can be perfected.

stratified injection is where the real fuel savings are at.


RE: Hmm
By Spuke on 4/29/2008 6:39:13 PM , Rating: 2
My car (Pontiac Solstice GXP) gets at least 2-3 mpg better in real world driving than the non-DI version of the same car. In some cases it's MUCH better than 2-3 mpg. My old car (04 Nissan Sentra) got decent gas mileage on short runs but crappy mileage on medium runs especially with some city driving mixed in. My present car gets better gas on all types of driving except for long runs where my old Sentra would get about 2-3 mpg better but only if my foot was really light. I can drive my present car like I stole and it seems to not really be affected much by it. Others with the same car (Solstice GXP) and much lighter feet report 33-34 mpg hwy driving.


RE: Hmm
By Alexvrb on 4/29/2008 9:27:50 PM , Rating: 2
You are trying to say that DI is more fuel efficient based on a comparison between the built-up and better tuned 2.0L DI turbocharged+intercooled Ecotec vs the cheaper non-DI 2.4L naturally aspirated Ecotec?

If you look at both designs, you'll quickly realize that there are other factors which are a lot more important. I would say that current DI implementations do more to increase horsepower than to improve mileage. It also means added complexity and somewhat increased initial cost. The cost of replacing the fuel injectors would certainly be much higher as well. Down the road, costs will come down. Hopefully improved DI designs will also show up.


RE: Hmm
By Spuke on 4/29/2008 10:21:13 PM , Rating: 2
Then look at a comparable, high-tech motor like the Honda K20. The Ecotec DI 4 STILL gets better fuel mileage. Compare the Cadillac DI V6 with it's non-DI equivalent. Better fuel mileage.


RE: Hmm
By Spuke on 4/29/2008 10:29:29 PM , Rating: 2
Like I stated above, there isn't any added complexity, mechanically. You add a fuel pump on one of the cams. That's it. If mileage isn't improved by DI's use how does a car that gets 80 more hp than it's NA equivalent get better real world fuel economy? I've owned 2.0L and 2.5L 4's and none of them get the mileage this car gets. Even when I'm using a lot of boost, the mileage is better. My "old" 2.5L's mileage would tank to the low 20's if I drove it like I do this car. GM and Ford are releasing DI, turbo'd small displacement engines so they can drastically improve fuel economy but still have similar power as today's larger displacement engines.


RE: Hmm
By Alexvrb on 4/30/2008 3:24:57 PM , Rating: 2
"Mechanically"? If by that you mean that both engines have fuel injectors, you are correct. They're completely different injectors, they've been relocated, and they handle MUCH higher heat and pressure. In your specific case, Fit is right, they are geared slightly differently. Your engine is also turbocharged and intercooled from the get-go. So DI aside, the other differences between a GXP and a non-GXP are really making the difference.

Your best comparison is the DI 3.6L vs the non-DI 3.6L. On the same car, with the same trans, MPG rating is essentially the same or slightly worse with DI.

http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/compx2008f.jsp?year...

I'm not saying DI hurts mileage, and it will evolve and become more useful (power and mileage improvements, cost parity). But current implementations don't seem to improve mileage, and they do add cost, otherwise GM and other companies would be putting them in all their engines. Why have an option, wouldn't it be cheaper to produce only one 3.6L? Especially since it would give all the cars using it an edge in both power and fuel economy? They'll start with their performance versions of the engines, taking advantage of the power improvements. As the technology matures and improves, they'll put it into more vehicles.


RE: Hmm
By Spuke on 4/30/2008 4:09:30 PM , Rating: 2
If there's a price premium on DI, it's REALLY small. If you compare my car to the NA Solstice, there's maybe a $1500 difference in price. And before some of you guys look at the sticker prices and say I'm wrong, realize that you have compare similarly equipped cars. There's equipment that's standard on the turbo model that is either non-existent or optional on the non-turbo model.

BTW, GM and Ford are planning to introduce a whole line of DI, turbo engines for small cars up to 1/2 trucks.


RE: Hmm
By FITCamaro on 4/30/2008 9:43:34 AM , Rating: 2
The Solstice GXP with the turbocharged engine has a much lower 5th gear ratio than the 5 speed or automatic in the non-turbo Solstice. That is likely why its top gear mileage is better. It doesn't really have anything to do with tuning though. The direct injection probably helps a little but I would say the differences in gear ratios is the biggest factor.


RE: Hmm
By Spuke on 4/30/2008 4:14:32 PM , Rating: 2
It's not just top end mileage. Across the board in ALL driving situations, the turbo's mileage is better. This verified by actual owners, not DT speculation.


RE: Hmm
By Andrevas on 4/29/2008 9:31:20 PM , Rating: 2
I didn't say you would get no improvement in mileage with DI, but the gains are small compared to an engine running in a stratified injection mode


RE: Hmm
By Samus on 4/30/2008 6:31:08 AM , Rating: 2
Miller cycle would allow them to have more power with less displacement...so they wouldn't need an increased engine size (1.5l vs 1.8l) so make more power.

Miller cycle added 60% more power to the last-gen Mazda Millenia, and the non-Miller cycle model had 30% more displacement.

Fuel consumption remained nearly identical between the two engines. The only difference was it being two seconds faster 0-60, huge when you consider the weight of the Millenia.


RE: Hmm
By wookie1 on 4/30/2008 12:33:01 PM , Rating: 2
One way that you get better mileage with DI is that you can run a higher compression ratio. This provides additional fuel efficiency (and modest power increase also). For example, I have an '07 VW GTI, which has a 2.0L turbo. If I recall, the compression ratio is 10.5:1, which is normally on the high end for a naturally aspirated engine, much less a turbocharged engine.


RE: Hmm
By Souka on 4/29/2008 4:51:53 PM , Rating: 3
NextGen Camry will be bigger than current gen..... the cycle goes on.

today's 08 Honda Civic is bigger than a 1998 Accord

Today's 08 Ford Escape is almost big as a 1995 Explorer (what I drive)

"progress"

:)


RE: Hmm
By Polynikes on 4/29/2008 5:14:41 PM , Rating: 2
I absolutely hate that trend.


RE: Hmm
By Oregonian2 on 4/29/2008 5:51:59 PM , Rating: 2
Prefer cars to shrink until they're all "smart cars"?
To me a car too big is like having a job that pays too much.