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Print 167 comment(s) - last by Loren Lo.. on May 24 at 10:15 PM

Overheating issues are unfortunately nothing new for Apple

Apple has a lust for packaging loads of electronics into tight metal enclosures.  That desire has made it perhaps the hottest gadget-maker on the market, but it also has brought it perennial overheating issues.  From overheating iPods and iPhones to the overheating iPad, heat issues have become an unpleasant fact of life for many Apple product owners.

Last week testing by PC Authority indicated that the new 17" MacBook Pro with an Intel Core i7-620M processor is overheating so badly it could boil water.  During testing, the site ran the benchmark Cinebench.  In OS X the laptop hit a balmy 90° C (39.9° C is approximately 102° F, for the non-SI units inclined), while in Windows 7 (using Boot Camp) the temperature spiked to 101° C, according to the laptop's temperature diode.

Such issues under Boot Camp are not particularly new.  On the Apple support forums, one customer "ADKIM", owner of a mid-2009 Penryn MacBook Pro writes, "I've had Windows 7 Home Premium installed for a little over two weeks now and the temparature (sic) gets so hot that my MBP will actually auto-shutdown.
It gets as high as 195F/90C!"

The latest MacBook Pro does appear to be hitting even greater highs heatwise, though, particularly in OS X. 

Already users have begun to complain on Apple's forums.  Writes one user:
I was playing WoW in Windows 7 in boot camp and the laptop felt hot to the touch to the point that if i were to leave my finger there it would start to burn. The hottest part of the laptop was the top left corner. Thinking it was overheating, I downloaded a GPU & CPU monitoring program. The CPU and GPU were both sitting around 70 deg celcius (sic) and i could hear the fan blowing at max speed. Is this normal operation temps for the new model of macbook pros?

The system I am using is the 15-inch Macbook Pro, the model that just came out. Thanks for the help!
It's unclear what the source of the Apple MBP's heat woes might be.  The good news for MacBook Pro owners is that the Intel Core i7 can operate up to 105° C, as can most of the other hardware onboard, apparently.

As one commenter "eww" remarks in an Apple forum post, "100°C at the processor core is not overheating. It is within the safe operating temperature range for all current MBPs."

Technically, he's right about it being within the operating temperature.  But the bad news for MacBook Pro buyers is that even if the case doesn't get quite that hot, it may be hot enough to cause discomfort and even possibly injury (burns or blistering) to the user, if their skin comes in contact with the fully heated case.  Also, such a high heat load raises the risk of hardware failure over the life of the device.

Apple has not yet commented officially on these developments.


Comments     Threshold


This article is over a month old, voting and posting comments is disabled

*chortle*
By Anoxanmore on 4/28/2010 11:13:50 AM , Rating: 5
It is a feature... you know Mac that can make a nice cup of Coffee or Hot Chocolate.

Steve said so.




RE: *chortle*
By xler8r on 4/28/2010 11:26:54 AM , Rating: 5
I concur, and a Magical cup of coffee nonetheless


RE: *chortle*
By xler8r on 4/28/2010 11:32:34 AM , Rating: 5
Sorry for the double post but i couldnt help it...

Hot apple cider anyone... *cough, cough*


RE: *chortle*
By MrBlastman on 4/28/2010 12:16:07 PM , Rating: 5
I think this is a good thing. Think about it for a moment. If enough of these notebooks get super hot, reproduction among Apple lovers will fall proportionately as their fertility is compromised by having heat for extended periods of time in close proximity of reproductive organs.

In other words, they'll breed less and Apple will eventually dwindle away into nothingness like they used to be.


RE: *chortle*
By bjacobson on 4/28/2010 12:18:29 PM , Rating: 2
"The CPU and GPU were both sitting around 70 deg celcius (sic) and i could hear the fan blowing at max speed. Is this normal operation temps for the new model of macbook pros?"

that's perfectly normal for laptops, if they're designed that way. My friend's Dell CPU+GPU that I just mentioned idles at 75C.


RE: *chortle*
By teapartyguy on 4/28/10, Rating: -1
RE: *chortle*
By Fleeb on 4/28/2010 12:44:47 PM , Rating: 5
quote:
Apple makes great products with top of the line hardware.


MacBook Pro 17" $2299

Intel® Core™ i5 540M 2.53GHz
500GB 5400-rpm hard drive
NVIDIA GeForce GT 330M 512MB GDDR3 memory
4GB memory

Alienware m17x $2224

Intel® Core™ i7 620M 2.66 GHz
500GB 7,200RPM SATA-II HDD
1GB ATI Radeon™ Mobility HD 5870
4GB memory

...so, it is not exactly "top of the line", is it?


RE: *chortle*
By teapartyguy on 4/28/10, Rating: -1
RE: *chortle*
By themaster08 on 4/28/2010 1:04:01 PM , Rating: 3
We have a new Reader1 here people, except even Reader1 isn't stupid enough to support Apple in articles like this.


RE: *chortle*
By MrBlastman on 4/28/2010 1:10:14 PM , Rating: 5
Would you rather spend 10 hours with a hot babe that never puts out or would you rather have 2.5 hours with an attractive babe who gives you the nastiest sex you've ever had?

Winner? Attractive Babe.


RE: *chortle*
By Nfarce on 4/28/2010 1:31:56 PM , Rating: 5
You are assuming this Apple iSnob likes chicks?


RE: *chortle*
By MrBlastman on 4/28/10, Rating: -1
RE: *chortle*
By Anoxanmore on 4/28/2010 2:16:40 PM , Rating: 2
Hmm... someone had a bad experience and overreacted.


RE: *chortle*
By Hieyeck on 4/28/2010 3:21:57 PM , Rating: 5
OK, not quite statistics but...

I work above an Apple store. I pass it everyday. And everyday I see:
- Old people trying to be young (and failing)
- Gay men
- Women

The first 1/3 isn't getting any. The last 2/3 like dick. This doesn't cover EVERYONE, but it covers MOST of the people going. I think he's right.

People I've seen ignore the Apple store:
- Men (ok, maybe I'm cheating - there's a lingere store next door.)

People I've seen GLARE and SCORN at the Apple store:
- Gay women (I really don't know why, but I've seen multiple lesbian couples just HATE at it)


RE: *chortle*
By gralex on 4/28/2010 7:29:12 PM , Rating: 3
I think you just the Prada store;) I'm sure you see the connection...

Apple has turned into the Dolce & Gabbana of computers. Which is a shame considering they were more like 501's before Steve ruined it for us. Windows I'm inclined to compare to Cargo pants (with your own customized utility-belt)


RE: *chortle*
By Gul Westfale on 4/28/2010 8:25:47 PM , Rating: 2
i was gonna rate the guy who defended apple up, but then i realised that he wasn't being sarcastic.


RE: *chortle*
By S3anister on 4/28/2010 5:46:24 PM , Rating: 5
Not a winner if the attractive babe has herpes.


RE: *chortle*
By FaceMaster on 4/29/2010 6:37:04 AM , Rating: 3
Are you saying that an Apple laptop is more secure than a Microsoft laptop?


RE: *chortle*
By NanoTube1 on 4/30/2010 2:13:26 PM , Rating: 2
Brilliant!

LOL!


RE: *chortle*
By AssBall on 4/28/2010 1:11:35 PM , Rating: 3
How about I just get an HP with more expandability, better support and connection options, better hardware, and better software support. As a bonus I'll sell you a sheet of brushed aluminum with an electric frying pan and a logo on it for the $500 I saved.


RE: *chortle*
By ClownPuncher on 4/28/2010 3:53:54 PM , Rating: 5
You're obviously a plebeian mouth breather. Anyone who chooses better hardware and a wider range of support for less money is clearly just too poor and stupid to pay more for less. Get with the program.


RE: *chortle*
By Yucker54 on 4/28/2010 5:47:06 PM , Rating: 2
Plebeian? Good word usage...don't hear that word thrown around too much.


RE: *chortle*
By Fleeb on 4/28/2010 1:23:09 PM , Rating: 3
You were arguing "top of the line". It means "the best" or belonging to the "highest and most expensive class."

So here is my point: for something that costs a little less, or for the sake of argument, more or less the same, you got a device with a better CPU/GPU and it is not even highest of its class.

Again, "top of the line". Do not call it as such if it isn't. Battery life does not change that fact.


RE: *chortle*
By Motoman on 4/28/2010 2:16:46 PM , Rating: 2
...winner of what? I see nothing there that makes any difference to me. Other than the fact that an Alienware laptop would be awesome for gaming, and therefore actually useful, whereas a Mac would be useless for gaming, and therefore is not only not comparable to the Alienware unit, but not of interest anyway.


RE: *chortle*
By kamel5547 on 4/28/2010 4:23:40 PM , Rating: 3
Yeah... theres no way to manipulate that rating... funny thing is that the watt hour rating is the same as an HP but HP says the battery will only last 5h 25m, admittedly the Mac has slower hardware (I guess thats now an advantage?).

Luckily for the MacBook uses switchable graphics to make its battery life look better. The problem is when you actually use the graphics card you paid the money for (nvidia 330m) the battry life will plummet.

Not to mention that I can get essentially the same hardware for $1609 with a 3 year warranty from HP (part WH252UT). The chief difference is a faster processor but smaller hard drive, and a pro card (quadro line) vs a consumer card.

Oh, and you won't even feel the burning since these do not heat up underneath :)


RE: *chortle*
By CptTripps on 4/28/2010 4:56:54 PM , Rating: 3
That has nothing to do with your top of the line hardware statement. You changed the subject to battery life to suite your argument.

Apple makes nice stuff with midrange hardware and charges top of the line prices. No matter the 10+ hours of battery life (yeah right) you are still wrong about the hardware being "top of the line".


RE: *chortle*
By Duwelon on 4/29/10, Rating: -1
RE: *chortle*
By duffman55 on 4/28/2010 12:45:44 PM , Rating: 5
Yes, the i7 is designed to run up to 105C, but that doesn't mean the rest of the components are designed to run with the sustained heat given off by the processor and GPU. Heat is probably the main reason the logic board in my MacBook Pro failed after a year and a half. Luckily, Apple replaced it under warranty (an otherwise $1,300 repair for my model). I understand the need to create something with great aesthetics by compromising on the cooling solution a bit, but they've compromised too much. I'm sure their cooling solution is more than adequate for the average user, but not for the power user such as myself.


RE: *chortle*
By invidious on 4/28/2010 12:46:40 PM , Rating: 5
quote:
To all the Apple haters that are getting mad, read the article! The Intel Core i7 is rated up till 105 degrees C.
Apparently your superior reading comprehension missed the part where human skin is not rated to 105C.


RE: *chortle*
By Patrick Canney on 4/28/2010 2:03:42 PM , Rating: 4
quote:
People complain about high prices and overheating, but I'm happy to live with that in order to get Apple's unbeatable hardware and packaging.


I'm afraid you just ousted yourself. I admire Apple products for their design. But you can not defend the fact they neglect things like product life expectancy and better hardware (if not a more efficient functioning hardware set) in favor of design and premium prices.

quote:
The second my new macbook gets warmer than 106 I'll start worrying, but until then -- think again!


I would give more credit to the Apple fans if they knew more about what they are talking about, unfortunately they argue about design and the worth of the premiums to people who generally know a heck of a lot more about the actual hardware they are purchasing.

Personally, I don't want my cock'n balls'n laps' getting burned. Even if it is by a stylish piece of metal encased hardware.

Apple need to go back to the drawing board with cooling.


RE: *chortle*
By KeypoX on 5/3/2010 1:01:54 AM , Rating: 1
Thats because you know nothing. Just because its rated at 105C doesnt mean you want it to run at 105. Most bios would start to throttle back or even turn off the computer at less than the max.

Most Apple users are stupid, and you sir are a case and point.

Posted from my hack on snow leopard...


RE: *chortle*
By ImSpartacus on 4/28/2010 12:38:05 PM , Rating: 2
Yup. The laptop never hit 100C. The CPU did.

100C is pretty damn hot, even for a mobile, but it's not that unusual at load.

The new MBPs are hot, and their processors will have a slightly lower lifespan than if they were kept cooler, but how often are you redlining a laptop?


RE: *chortle*
By Low Key on 4/28/2010 1:21:42 PM , Rating: 2
Well its not like this only happens in rare situations. The article states that this is happening when just running windows 7 in boot camp. While not all people may use that, I'm sure it is a large percentage that will have this happen fairly often.


RE: *chortle*
By Sazabi19 on 4/28/2010 4:22:11 PM , Rating: 2
My girlfriend rarely hits 100 degrees, no matter how many loads i hit her with ;)


RE: *chortle*
By Sazabi19 on 4/28/2010 4:22:52 PM , Rating: 2
100 F btw, not even C


RE: *chortle*
By Anoxanmore on 4/28/2010 4:27:50 PM , Rating: 4
secks ur doin it rong

Insert cat picture here


RE: *chortle*
By Ammohunt on 4/29/2010 3:21:59 PM , Rating: 2
Not sure you have to worry about that anyway since most Apple Mac users are Gay/Lesbian


RE: *chortle*
By jonmcc33 on 4/29/2010 1:07:53 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
In other words, they'll breed less and Apple will eventually dwindle away into nothingness like they used to be.


Hey, we need some sort of competition to make fun of. If Apple weren't around who else would we laugh at? Linux users?


RE: *chortle*
By AstroGuardian on 4/30/2010 4:49:56 AM , Rating: 2
Damn right!!! Lunux users it is!!!!


RE: *chortle*
By tastyratz on 4/28/2010 2:37:34 PM , Rating: 3
Its an apple, it doesn't make silly "Regular joe"
It strictly outputs triple pump grande machiatos which permanently stain a goatee on your face.


RE: *chortle*
By Mitch101 on 4/28/2010 11:27:42 AM , Rating: 3
I wonder if Apple's market share in direct proportion to global warming? ;)


RE: *chortle*
By ImSpartacus on 4/28/2010 12:39:36 PM , Rating: 4
Well Apple is against pirates, and we all know their effect on global warming...

http://www.venganza.org/images/PiratesVsTemp.png

That's it, it's official. Apple causes global warming.


RE: *chortle*
By teapartyguy on 4/28/10, Rating: -1
RE: *chortle*
By Anoxanmore on 4/28/2010 12:52:03 PM , Rating: 1
She will never win the primary, and on a third party ticket I am willing to bet that Ralph Nader has recieved more votes than she will ever.


RE: *chortle*
By teapartyguy on 4/28/10, Rating: -1
RE: *chortle*
By rtrski on 4/28/2010 1:13:30 PM , Rating: 3
As someone absolutely appalled with this administration's "transparency", interpretation of the constitution and procedural process, and policies, both foreign and domestic, I have to say I hope like heck you're wrong .

If we replace a multiethnic, male, liberal demagogue elected out of a fascination with symbol over substance with a monochromatic, female, conservative demagogue who shows every evidence of being just as much a symbol vs. having any significant substance...then any dwindling remnant of faith I have in the intelligence of the average American will go right out the window.


RE: *chortle*
By Anoxanmore on 4/28/2010 2:05:36 PM , Rating: 2
I'll make you a deal, you correct my spelling and I will correct your grammar. After all, if you wish to push an agenda you could at least do it in a coherent form.


RE: *chortle*
By 67STANG on 4/28/2010 2:07:53 PM , Rating: 4
Sarah Palin on the Republican ticket will only assure a landslide win for Obama. Moderates and Libertarians will not vote for her.

Let's me honest... while easy on the eyes, she's as dumb as a sack of nails.


RE: *chortle*
By Donkeyshins on 4/28/10, Rating: 0
RE: *chortle*
By Reclaimer77 on 4/28/2010 6:43:45 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Republican ticket will only assure a landslide win for Obama. Moderates and Libertarians will not vote for her.


We don't need the Moderate or Libertarian vote if we excite our Conservative base. Something someone like McCain couldn't / wouldn't do to win.

quote:
Let's me honest... while easy on the eyes, she's as dumb as a sack of nails.


Well that's the media talking, not you. There's no way she's legally retarded, which is how everyone seems to refer to her lately. The hatchet job on her, and the absurd hate against her, is totally irrational. I don't get it personally.

I mean, honestly, how is Sarah Palin a "retard", but Joe Bidden considered a well respected member of the government? The double standard is just offensive. Every time he opens his mouth, stupid pours out.


RE: *chortle*
By daInvincibleGama on 4/28/2010 2:21:17 PM , Rating: 2
You are the most convincing troll I have ever come across. Pretty funny, actually.


RE: *chortle*
By Jake64bits on 4/28/2010 5:09:32 PM , Rating: 2
Sorry men, but you have to travel a little and get out of your bubble!, I've been living in the U.S. , Latin America, and a few countries in Europe..., none of them communist, and they do have universal healthcare !! For everyone, not matter your actual condition, age, etc... you are born with automatic automatic healthcare. I don't even have to pay for medicine (Europe case only) !!!

Sorry for wrong spellings, but english is not my mother language.


RE: *chortle*
By ZmaxDP on 4/28/10, Rating: -1
RE: *chortle*
By DFranch on 4/28/2010 5:46:04 PM , Rating: 2
Wow, did you just quote Sarah Palin. Did you have to write it on your hand to remember it? You do know that she is just telling you what you want to hear while collecting a fortune to speak at all of these tea party events. She knows she won't win, but she'll be rich by that time.


RE: *chortle*
By Duwelon on 4/29/2010 1:21:27 AM , Rating: 2
Let me guess, you get all your facts from the Daily Show and other comedy central shows?


RE: *chortle*
By DFranch on 4/29/2010 12:57:07 PM , Rating: 3
No I get most of my news online, or on the local news. I don't watch the Daily Show. I have seen clips online does that make me a socialist? I guess I just don't have much respect for a person who is elected Governor and quits to cash in on her new found fame.


RE: *chortle*
By n0ebert on 4/30/2010 10:27:20 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Global warming is fake. You may think you're being funny, but you're not. "We knew the bottom line . . . was ultimately to shut down a lot of our development. And it didn’t make any sense because it was based on these global warming studies that now we’re seeing (is) a bunch of snake oil science." -Sarah Palin http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/02/09/politics... She's going to make a great president!


You almost made me spit out my coffee. Did you just quote Sarah Palin as a credible source for... anything?


RE: *chortle*
By bighairycamel on 4/28/2010 11:35:31 AM , Rating: 5
So help me out here... I want to make my macbook cooler than boiling temp. Is there, or isn't there, an app for that?


RE: *chortle*
By Anoxanmore on 4/28/2010 11:41:33 AM , Rating: 5
Yes, it is called an iHammer. ;)


RE: *chortle*
By Kurz on 4/28/2010 12:04:17 PM , Rating: 2
Or you can use iDremel.
Its an interesting app since it requires that you go out and buy a dremel and cut into the metal casing to create the needed vent ports.

*Seriously*
I wish I could post in that thread alas I dont have an apple ID since I dont have any Apple products.


RE: *chortle*
By Anoxanmore on 4/28/2010 12:09:00 PM , Rating: 2
I own a couple iPods, but only the Nano(4 and 16GB) since I use it to listen to music while I am at work, while I work. :)

(IE only need 10ish hours of music)


RE: *chortle*
By themaster08 on 4/29/2010 4:27:26 AM , Rating: 2
There are a couple. Whilst the iHammer app is pretty effective, my personal favourite is the iDon'tBuyMacbook's app.


RE: *chortle*
By mattclary on 4/28/2010 11:49:02 AM , Rating: 2
It strikes me as odd that this seems to be a bigger issue when running Windows...

The conspiracy nut in me wonders if this is Apple's way of trying to keep people from running Windows.


RE: *chortle*
By Moohbear on 4/28/2010 12:24:19 PM , Rating: 3
Actually, it's nothing new. Apple offers only limited driver support under Windows. So, while MacOSX has a good software control over system temp, Windows, not so much. The notebook gets very hot and then the hardware kicks the fan on :(

It's been a long time complaint.


RE: *chortle*
By teapartyguy on 4/28/10, Rating: -1
RE: *chortle*
By Targon on 4/28/2010 1:28:44 PM , Rating: 2
Have you considered that MacOS may be set to run the CPU at only 5 percent of its rated speed while on battery? That would do the job of making the battery last a long time. You could do the same under Microsoft Windows, just adjust the setting for max power usage to 5 percent, and see just how long the battery lasts.

MacOS X has been pretty stagnant in terms of the evolution, so while you may like to THINK that MacOS is a better OS, it really is just tuned a bit differently. Apple has actually not done any significant changes to MacOS since version 10 was first released. Yes, there have been changes, but Microsoft has been making progress over the years at a much faster rate than Apple has.

Apple went from using a different processor and overall architecture, to being a standard PC with a different OS and a much higher price tag. Quality may be good at times, but considering the yellow screen issues, and other problems, Apple can no longer hide the fact that for the same specs, the prices are higher.


RE: *chortle*
By themaster08 on 4/29/2010 4:47:31 AM , Rating: 2
My guess is that Apple must throttle the CPU and GPU down somewhat rotten, lmiting your experience. I imagine they have also altered the p-states in their CPU drivers so that they require less voltage when running OSX (which would be extremely easy considering the limited amount of hardware they support). But the masses only use their Macbooks to update their facebook/twitter status, so any degradation in performance goes unnoticed.

Whilst Apple allow Windows to be run on their Macbooks, when doing so, said throttling is far less aggressive to make better use of the hardware, thus the real quality of the Macbook's cooling system shows. It also proves that Macbooks have been designed with form in-mind, and that they're are not adaptable to another OS because only OSX knows how to control the hardware to get the least out of it.

So next time any of you guys think about purchasing a Macbook to run Windows on, just do yourselves an enormous favour and don't bother.


RE: *chortle*
By bjacobson on 4/28/2010 12:16:23 PM , Rating: 2
my friend's Dell doesn't kick the fan in until his processor hits 95C. The processor (T7500) is rated for 100C (higher temps allowed because of lower voltage)

So, yeah, nothing new here.


RE: *chortle*
By Shadowmaster625 on 4/28/2010 1:23:09 PM , Rating: 2
pssssh... like any macbook user would make their own coffee when they could just as easily go get bent over by Starbucks for $5 a cup.


RE: *chortle*
By djdjohnson on 4/28/2010 3:07:50 PM , Rating: 2
Since it's a Mac, it has to be Cocoa.


Speaking as an overclocker
By DanNeely on 4/28/2010 11:45:49 AM , Rating: 5
You don't want to be regularly running your CPU up against the thermal throttle level. That value is set to keep it from quickly burning up. Electromigration occurs more rapidly at higher temperatures, and if you're regularly baking your chip at high temperature levels you'll cut years off it's life expectancy.




RE: Speaking as an overclocker
By Pirks on 4/28/2010 11:53:40 AM , Rating: 5
quote:
if you're regularly baking your chip at high temperature levels you'll cut years off it's life expectancy
Which is exactly what Jobs wants! Buy new MacBook every year after your old one baked through, now we're talking.


RE: Speaking as an overclocker
By MrBlastman on 4/28/2010 1:14:28 PM , Rating: 4
I'm perplexed here. Did Pirks just take a stab at Apple or what?


RE: Speaking as an overclocker
By Pirks on 4/28/2010 1:26:48 PM , Rating: 5
Yeah I'm working on my rating here, now quickly switch to your second account and uprate me!


RE: Speaking as an overclocker
By ZmaxDP on 4/28/2010 3:13:19 PM , Rating: 4
Oh come on people, that was funny. It's pirks. Give props when due! I'd up-rate you for this one P, but I posted already...

(About the only time I'd up-rate you to date, but there's a first for everything!)


RE: Speaking as an overclocker
By chick0n on 4/28/2010 12:17:31 PM , Rating: 3
LOL ! Jobs doesnt care if your shit dies right after the warranty period.

if it burns out and u didn't get Apple care? shame on you !

if you have apple care? Apple will just "swap" another "used" ... I mean err another board that has passed "Apple's Quality" check until your Apple care expires ...

after that, Buy a new one !


RE: Speaking as an overclocker
By djdjohnson on 4/28/2010 3:08:57 PM , Rating: 2
Get a new MacBook. Not a big deal.


By Assimilator87 on 4/28/2010 4:19:57 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
You don't want to be regularly running your CPU up against the thermal throttle level. That value is set to keep it from quickly burning up. Electromigration occurs more rapidly at higher temperatures, and if you're regularly baking your chip at high temperature levels you'll cut years off it's life expectancy.


I used to have a 17" laptop with a Turion X2 which would hover around 95C while folding, which I ran non-stop along with GPU folding for about 6 months. I was pretty surprised that there wasn't a single stability issue at such high temps. Also, even if the life expectancy of a computer is cut by several years, technology progresses so fast that by the time the product actually dies, it'll probably be a dinosaur.


That's too hot
By Spivonious on 4/28/2010 11:39:16 AM , Rating: 2
The i7 CPUs aren't supposed to get much over 60C. I'm surprised they still operate at 90C.




RE: That's too hot
By MeesterNid on 4/28/2010 11:50:52 AM , Rating: 1
Supposed to as opposed to rated by the manufacturer? So from the article: "...the Intel Core i7 can operate up to 105° C".

So don't be surprised.


RE: That's too hot
By walk2k on 4/28/10, Rating: 0
RE: That's too hot
By MonkeyPaw on 4/28/2010 6:38:49 PM , Rating: 3
What its rated at and what you want to run it at are 2 different things. Intel says 105C is the max, but running any electronics at that heat level results in a substantial increase in electrical resistance. 100C may not hurt the CPU, but the temperature increase on the surroundings will put a good deal of stress on the power delivery system, which isn't blessed with active cooling. You may get a few good years out of it, but running any sort of system near its design limits is begging for failure, because there's no room for design flaws. That's why people who drive the hell out of their cars always seem to have more mechanical trouble.


RE: That's too hot
By MrFord on 4/28/2010 1:23:35 PM , Rating: 2
Mobile CPUs tend to run hotter than regular desktop ones, as to keep fan usage as low as possible, therefore reducing noise/battery usage.
I'd be curious tho to see if there's any increase in power requirements when the CPU temperature hovers around 90-100C vs 50C?

Also, one thing that a lot of people tend to forget i that case, is that the MacBook Pro casing is all aluminum, unlike most laptops. While a Dell/HP/etc. could be reaching similar temperatures, the body of the laptop won't be nearly as hot on the touch, and the heat will be more localized around the CPU/exhaust. Not to say that they don't get warm to the touch, but even older MacBook Pro can get quite uncomfortable because of the heat when under load, i.e. when installing MacOS or encoding. I was shocked the first time I encountered that, when even the wrist area gets too hot for your hands.


RE: That's too hot
By Reclaimer77 on 4/28/2010 6:31:46 PM , Rating: 4
quote:
The i7 CPUs aren't supposed to get much over 60C.


And they don't. Provided you don't lock them in an all aluminum case without so much as a seam in the way of cooling vents.

Just another example of Apple putting style over substance and good solid design. It *looks* great, sure. But it's an absolute torture test on hardware thermally.


RE: That's too hot
By jimhsu on 4/28/2010 10:54:21 PM , Rating: 2
I really don't get their fan vent design. Why do they have to mount the fan vents so that it's blocked by the massive monitor hinge? Thermodynamics - if hot air stays in the computer, the computer gets hot.


RE: That's too hot
By Reclaimer77 on 4/29/2010 1:56:08 AM , Rating: 2
Because it's "sleek" !!! We can't actually have things like vents SHOWING ! My god man, come to your senses ! :P


RE: That's too hot
By Pirks on 4/29/2010 9:49:14 AM , Rating: 2
No, idiot, it's not about being "sleek". They moved vents to the side because this way vents are not blocked when you put your notebooks on a soft surface. Now try that with your WinPC notebook with vents at the bottom :P


RE: That's too hot
By Reclaimer77 on 4/29/2010 10:44:41 AM , Rating: 2
Right which explains whey they aren't burning up...

OH WAIT !


RE: That's too hot
By Pirks on 4/29/2010 11:44:39 AM , Rating: 2
Don't run Windows on them and they won't burn. Simple eh? ;)


RE: That's too hot
By Kurz on 4/30/2010 2:51:19 PM , Rating: 2
Maybe they should code a better hardware monitor for windows. Oh wait... Apple is lazy.


Bigger cooler
By ksherman on 4/28/2010 11:40:13 AM , Rating: 2
Heck, even my early-2009 model hits 80C pretty easily (browsing in FireFox while maybe watching an xvid video, total of 15-20% CPU usage max), which is annoying enough. But 100C is CRAZY.

I wish Apple would suck it up, add an 1/8" to the height of their machine and adequately cool their notebooks. Heck, they could use that 1/8" to put an even slightly larger battery in and tout their 9-11 hour battery life. Win-Win.




RE: Bigger cooler
By jimhsu on 4/28/2010 2:04:02 PM , Rating: 2
After having had a mid-2006 Macbook pro model, I am NOT buying Apple laptops again. Having the CPU go up to 95C is one thing ... having the laptop be so hot as to actually be PAINFUL to use is quite another. Why can't Apple vent hot air to the side like almost all other laptops do, instead of their current horribly inefficient system of having the vents blocked by the monitor hinge? (don't know if the new models are different, but I don't see any vents on the side). Fluid dynamics 101...


RE: Bigger cooler
By jimhsu on 4/28/2010 2:08:55 PM , Rating: 2
For comparison, my recently purchased Asus X83VP idles in the 40s, the case never even becomes warm during gaming, and vents massive amounts of air to the side (where it is not in contact with any body parts). Thermal engineering makes all the difference.


RE: Bigger cooler
By astria on 4/30/2010 9:43:46 AM , Rating: 2
Owns a Asus N81Vp... T9550 + HD4650 in a 14"...

folding 24/7, CPU stays at 70C with GPU folding at the same time (granted the room temperature is approx. 18C...)

i need to be in Singapore (room temperature approx. 25C) in order to bring the CPU temp to 95C when folding...

and yes, T9550 is rated at 35W as well... in fact i notice the new Core i CPU seems to run a little hotter than C2D, even though they are 32nm...


new imac name.
By chalupa on 4/28/2010 11:35:52 AM , Rating: 5
iFryBalls.




RE: new imac name.
By Omega215D on 4/29/2010 3:11:41 AM , Rating: 2
With a new accessory fan called iBlow.

Your MacBook has gone from suck to blow!

Yeah, I own a MacBook and it's been serving me well. It is a Core 2 Duo version though.


This could be a good thing
By BZDTemp on 4/28/2010 11:53:03 AM , Rating: 2
I mean the really hard core Apple fan boys will have their little swimmers boiled thus be unable to generate offspring. Which in turn will the Apple fan boy mutation of Homo Sapiens will eventually be extinct.

(Now what to do with the 360 fan boys?)




RE: This could be a good thing
By Kurz on 4/28/2010 1:11:21 PM , Rating: 2
The 360 Fan boys need something more subtle.
How about installing a xray emitter on the 360 so it'll nuke everyone within say 10 feet.


RE: This could be a good thing
By acase on 4/28/2010 2:14:16 PM , Rating: 3
As long as it does it radially and with a red laser beam so it can literally be a RRoD!


No, It Is NOT A SAFE OPERATING TEMPERATURE
By mindless1 on 4/30/2010 6:20:01 PM , Rating: 3
... unless you cite ALL the specs conveniently hidden away for the components like the ones that stipulate a stupidly short lifespan at such temperatures.

One good example is capacitors. They are rated to 105C on many motherboards but at this temperature may last only 2000 hours. Those good at math realize that is less than 3 months of continual operation, while we expect at a minimum to get multiple years out of a product unless it is damaged in some way (due to user's fault).

While the degradation is certainly not as bad with other components, the fact remains that a common average degradation cited in the industry is a halving of lifespan for every 10C temp rise.

Maybe that's ok on your cellphone which might get lost, damaged, fall out of support or lack feature support you want towards the end of utmost reduction in size... but even then, when you pay a premium something ought to last at least as long as the low end junk!!




RE: No, It Is NOT A SAFE OPERATING TEMPERATURE
By jimhsu on 5/4/2010 2:42:44 AM , Rating: 2
The biggest problem is .... take a guess.

...

Batteries. Li-ions simply hate heat, especially the scorching type of heat normally found on the MBP's nice aluminum casing: http://www.batteryuniversity.com/images/parttwo-34...

It's no surprise that I got a battery replacement barely 6 months into using the laptop (fortunately that was covered under warranty). Unfortunately, battery life sucked again 1 year later, and that was out of warranty.


By jimhsu on 5/4/2010 2:45:40 AM , Rating: 2
I didn't realize the new MBPs had non-replaceable batteries. That makes it even worse - I would put my replaceable battery for my first gen MBP in the fridge to prolong the life as long as possible (which wasn't very long, unfortunately). With non-replaceable batteries -- no chance.


few bits in the article
By hexxthalion on 4/28/2010 12:13:40 PM , Rating: 2
it wan't PC Perspective but PC Authority Australia.

Quoted MBP 15" overheating while running Windows - simple explanation - it always run NVidia card instead of Intel integrated on windows.

while using Mac OS it switches to dedicated GPU only if you're using GPU intensive tasks like Open CL and so on.

Also it was reported that this was measured on the core and the tool used wasn't updated to the recent one therefore CPU wasn't reported correctly and it's quite possible that reading wasn't correct.

I'm not saying by this post that it didn't run hot during their testing, just trying to put facts together




RE: few bits in the article
By vectorm12 on 4/28/2010 12:18:58 PM , Rating: 2
Isn't it about that time Apple starts to claim improper use of the device?

I could imagine hearing something like:

- "Sorry sir, the warranty on your MacBook is void as Apple does not specify sustained high workloads as proper use of the device"

My ex used to work techsupport for Apple in Denmark, hear quite a few tradgic stories that way.(not saying it doesn't happen with PC makers though)


RE: few bits in the article
By hexxthalion on 4/28/2010 12:21:50 PM , Rating: 2
and reading original article and comments, credibility of that article is questionable :)


big whoop
By ralniv on 4/28/2010 4:43:01 PM , Rating: 1
This is probably nothing more than a design trade off. Apple has elected to design a Core i7 mobile platform that is sleek, slender and quiet at the expense of operating near component thermal limits under full load. This isn't news worthy. If there's a design flaw or widespread system failures or injuries, then lets hear it.

I wish people would cut it out with the simple spec and price comparisons. If you want to truly compare systems and prices, then look at the oft neglected elements, such as: software (e.g. iLife), long-life battery, and high quality IPS display. Also consider the cost of materials (e.g. glass multi-touch trackpad vs non-multi-touch plastic, aluminum unibody chassis versus segmented plastic-metal chassis). There are other things too, like integrated support for writing PDFs and native Exchanger Server support. All of these elements have value and can be assigned a cost. If these features don't add value for you, then don't pay for them.




RE: big whoop
By Pirks on 4/28/2010 5:52:55 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
high quality IPS display
Cut the crap, there's no IPS in MacBooks.


RE: big whoop
By jimhsu on 4/28/2010 10:56:05 PM , Rating: 2
As far as injuries: http://consumerist.com/2010/04/a-macbook-burned-my...

Yes, laptop != notebook and all that. But metal surfaces on consumer electronic devices aren't designed to give blisters (metal surfaces on your stove ... are.)


It just works...
By chmilz on 4/28/2010 11:12:34 AM , Rating: 5
As a toaster.




Anand can bite it...
By The0ne on 4/28/10, Rating: 0
RE: Anand can bite it...
By MeesterNid on 4/28/2010 12:08:16 PM , Rating: 3
That's what you get for keyword searching instead of reading. Look at that review again and this time try "reading" he mentions heat issues by saying: "The new MacBook Pro also gets much warmer than the old one. I'd say it's more comparable to the first gen unibody MacBook Pro"

Anand is a technology user and enthusiast and not a blind, subjective fanboy. In my opinion he gives a well-rounded and a fairly objective overview which I respect.


RE: Anand can bite it...
By The0ne on 4/29/2010 11:22:58 AM , Rating: 2
No doubt, you're absolutely correct about me NOT reading the article. After his iPad review where he declares iPad king of all (netbooks, touchpad notebooks, etc.) I had to call it quits. This after I've reference to him several reviews by him and his staff one netbooks and notebooks which earned their awards during the review.

So while keyword searching might have failed DUE to the word "temperature" not being found, I still see no reason why it wasn't even mention. 100+ is hot to me. What's warm to you?

Do get worked up youngster, I've followed Anand since he started and plan to stick around. It still is a good site, I just prefer to stay away from his Apple reviews now.


when I was a kid
By tastyratz on 4/28/2010 12:04:49 PM , Rating: 2
if I touched a hot stove, I learned not to touch it again.

So why do people still think they can buy an apple product and not get burned (figuratively and literally)

And on top of that matter... How many times does apple ram their heads into a wall before they realize there is a problem. If I made cars and the transmissions went every 20k miles I would get sick of the warranty claims and so wouldn't the buyers...




RE: when I was a kid
By vectorm12 on 4/28/2010 12:23:56 PM , Rating: 2
Original post ended up on the wrong subject, anyway...

Isn't it about that time Apple starts to claim improper use of the device?

I could imagine hearing something like:

- "Sorry sir, the warranty on your MacBook is void as Apple does not specify sustained high workloads as proper use of the device"

My ex used to work techsupport for Apple in Denmark, hear quite a few tradgic stories that way.(not saying it doesn't happen with PC makers though)


RE: when I was a kid
By Pirks on 4/28/2010 12:27:24 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
So why do people still think they can buy an apple product and not get burned
My explanation is because most people don't buy MacBooks to run Windows and under OS X this problem is not manifesting itself so seriously.

Well, now, if just a couple of users running Windows on MacBook got burned, why would Apple care? ;)


Misuse
By rs1 on 4/28/2010 3:11:07 PM , Rating: 5
Apparently the users experiencing these high temperatures are misusing their Macs. They've forgotten that Apple products are intended solely for sitting there and looking pretty, and not meant to actually be used for any kind of serious computing tasks.

Textbook case of user error, really.




Nothing New
By hiscross on 4/28/2010 12:00:13 PM , Rating: 2
PC as well as Mac laptops have a history of running warm to hot. It's the price we pay for using mobile devices that require speed and performance. NASCAR cars run so hot inside that drivers must wear special racing suites and boots. Heat is a killer. Ask the Global Warming people. I guess if Global Warmering was a conservative issue, then it would be OK. On a better note, what would you rather have a hot girl or a cold guy?




RE: Nothing New
By jimhsu on 4/28/2010 2:15:57 PM , Rating: 2
Not if proper thermal design is implemented. My new Asus has specs comparable to the new Macbook pros, only that it vents heat to the side instead of stupidly stuffing it into the monitor hinge (Apple). The result is idle temps in the 40s, load temps in the 70s, and the case actually remains COOL to the touch during intense use instead of burning body parts.


RE: Nothing New
By hiscross on 4/28/10, Rating: -1
RE: Nothing New
By astria on 4/30/2010 9:48:11 AM , Rating: 1
like it or not, MB and MBP are OEM-ed by Asus


By Targon on 4/28/2010 1:14:20 PM , Rating: 2
Think about it, someone sued McDonalds over hot coffee and won. A computer or laptop is NOT supposed to be hot, so I am surprised that someone hasn't used this as a tool to sue Apple.

It's a laptop, so "I was wearing shorts and using the laptop on my lap, and it burned me!" Hmmm, should be worth a few million...




By Dradien on 4/28/2010 4:54:28 PM , Rating: 2
I wonder....
By darkpuppet on 4/28/2010 4:29:54 PM , Rating: 2
I wonder how many people, who bash apple for charging more for less drive SUVs or Priuses.

Consumerism is driven on selling things for what people are willing to pay -- often regardless of their practicality or function.

Otherwise, we'd all be living in perfectly square houses, with 7 ft ceilings, carpooling in VW polos.

If apple products were so much fail, then why do they sell so well? And why are their innovations being pick-pocketed by other companies? we shouldn't be bitter that someone innovated a bit better than we wish we had before -- or improved on a good idea... why not embrace it for what it is and move on to bigger/better things?

I'm still one of those who held out against the iphone, but I can't help but notice how 'iphone' everything else is getting... and not because it sucks, but because it makes sense.

Same with MP3 players -- you can get much better MP3 players, but even I had to move on to a nano after realizing that nobody has executed on the end-to-end experience as well as Apple -- swallowing the bitter pill of 30 hour reduction in playtime for small/big memory/ease of use.

Same with laptops. used to be that you lugged around a desktop replacement lappy and suffered from back problems -- Apple has made lightweight and their brand for form-over-function fashionable, and everyone's been racing to do the same, which has driven the innovation that makes new laptops much more than just squished-down desktops.

Sure apple's products are engineered to be replaced every 2 years, but society seems to be on a big - throw-away consumerism kick lately anyways.




RE: I wonder....
By vectorm12 on 4/28/2010 7:11:15 PM , Rating: 2
Very good points. For the record I drive a JDM Subaru Impreza WRX STI Type RA MY99.

Generally I'm all for product innovation of any sort but I can't say I'm gonna give Apple credit for any kind of recent innovations other than the iPhone OS and in particular how they built the appstore and made people realize that there's much more to smartphones than what you start out with.

The whole craze is more about the fact that Apple finally have products that can to some degree compete in the general consumer market and not in it's general niche of Artistic work.

The reason most people don't bash the Prius which is one of your examples is that it's currently one of the best performing(if not the best) Hybrid on the market.

I believe that is what it all boils down to. I feel that a lot of people feel like Apple are getting away with being able to market their products as "superior in every way" compared to all other products. There's no scientific proof that any Apple products are superior to other offers on the market. Most likely very few of us here would agree that they are.

As it seems noone has come up with any accurate measurements of how hot the case of the Mac Books actually get I'm gonna reserv judgement for later.

I will say this however. I've used everything from older Mac Books to HPs to Acer and Sony Vaios. I've yet to come across a single laptop where I actually felt it painful to be in constant contact with the computer even after a 8 hour day of work.

If the claim is indeed true and it actually gets hot enough to burn your fingertips it is unacceptable. You really can't ask a consumer to let your computing device cool off before you handle it after heavy use.


My New "Get Rich Quick" Scheme
By Goty on 4/28/2010 8:29:26 PM , Rating: 2
1) Buy a new MBP

2) Leave it on my lap while gaming for about four hours

3) Sue Apple for personal injury (this is the US, I'd probably win)

4) PROFIT!




RE: My New "Get Rich Quick" Scheme
By jimhsu on 4/28/2010 10:58:00 PM , Rating: 2
You know, there actually is precedent, somewhat. The coffee case was in part due to the coffee temp being significantly higher than the competition (for freshness, or whatever). Apple laptops due to their design are significantly hotter than the competition...


well...
By Mikescool on 4/28/2010 11:15:17 AM , Rating: 2
can't you guys see this is just part of Steve Job's master plan to introduce more peripherals?

here comes the iCooler ...

haha




By DanNeely on 4/28/2010 11:49:00 AM , Rating: 2
Something else to think about. Even if they're stopping just short of throttle levels in a normal room; the CPU itself is specced to be used in much hotter environments; assuming apple hasn't set a maximum ambient temperature of ~75F it's almost certainly going to be getting hit enough to throttle itself in an 85 or 95 degree room, ie during the summer in a non-air conditioned room.




The new way to kill viruses...
By drycrust3 on 4/28/2010 1:21:48 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
spiked to 101° C


Ha ha ha ... no more flu vaccinations for me ... he he he ... I changed my body for a MacCyborg Pro with famous McAffee antivirus software he he he ... with the new Intel 101 processor I'll barbecue any virus within 101 metres ... he he he. Huh! An antivirus update? So soon? I just got my new body. Well, what harm could one little up date do. Just one moment while I plug in my USB port ... just like taking a drink of cold water on a hot day ... aaahhhhh .... huh .... AAAARRRRGGGGHHHH




Will be patended
By SimpleLance on 4/28/2010 9:30:32 PM , Rating: 2
I have a feeling that other notebook manufacturers would no longer be able to make notebooks that get very hot. Apple will be patenting this idea.




By OCedHrt on 4/28/2010 10:32:36 PM , Rating: 2
Setting aesthetics aside, Apple hardware is not all that impressive. You can get Macbook Pro specs in a 13.3" 3lb Sony that doesn't overheat.




irony
By eddieroolz on 4/29/2010 6:02:20 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
That desire has made it perhaps the hottest gadget-maker on the market


Oh, the irony.




i7 not bad,who cares boiled water.
By Loren Lo on 5/24/2010 10:15:44 PM , Rating: 2
MacBook is my favorite laptop, i7 is a not bad CPU.
I don't care the water can be boiled.

the iPod Transfer software for Mac, may helpful.
http://www.ipodmactransfer.com/product_detail.php/...




Tony Swash
By Pirks on 4/28/10, Rating: -1
RE: Tony Swash
By chalupa on 4/28/2010 11:38:20 AM , Rating: 2
something?


RE: Tony Swash
By Pirks on 4/28/10, Rating: -1
RE: Tony Swash
By Anoxanmore on 4/28/2010 11:46:35 AM , Rating: 2
I demand more smilies in your posts.

You are not the Pirks I know.


RE: Tony Swash
By Pirks on 4/28/10, Rating: -1
RE: Tony Swash
By Anoxanmore on 4/28/2010 11:51:25 AM , Rating: 3
I don't propose to idiots. ;)


RE: Tony Swash
By Pirks on 4/28/10, Rating: -1
RE: Tony Swash
By Anoxanmore on 4/28/2010 12:12:42 PM , Rating: 2
That isn't what Steve says...


RE: Tony Swash
By Pirks on 4/28/10, Rating: -1
RE: Tony Swash
By Anoxanmore on 4/28/2010 12:24:52 PM , Rating: 2
Steve doesn't like women... you would know Mr. "just the tip".


RE: Tony Swash
By Pirks on 4/28/10, Rating: 0
RE: Tony Swash
By Anoxanmore on 4/28/2010 12:41:05 PM , Rating: 2
What you really mean was I prefer to make my own choices.


RE: Tony Swash
By Pirks on 4/28/2010 1:32:31 PM , Rating: 1
He made the choice this time.


RE: Tony Swash
By Anoxanmore on 4/28/2010 2:08:56 PM , Rating: 2
So you ARE mad that he choose reader1 over you.


RE: Tony Swash
By chalupa on 4/28/2010 2:27:09 PM , Rating: 3
Sorry to break your thread of "how do we know pirks is gay" But i think pirks and reader1 are either alter ego of steve jobs or his penis and a$$hole respectivelly.


RE: Tony Swash
By Pirks on 4/28/2010 2:53:42 PM , Rating: 2
Nah, I'm not that mad, in fact I'd prefer Jobs to marry reader1 than some stupid ordinary woman like yourself ;)


RE: Tony Swash
By Anoxanmore on 4/28/2010 3:03:25 PM , Rating: 2
You mean of course not an iFan, and proud of it?


RE: Tony Swash
By Pirks on 4/28/2010 3:10:19 PM , Rating: 1
Yeah, exactly. If a woman is proud of hating Apple designs, how can she coexist with the creator of these designs? She has to have some qualities that compensate for that defect, but if she doesn't... alas :)


RE: Tony Swash
By Anoxanmore on 4/28/2010 3:14:46 PM , Rating: 2
Hating apple designs?

I'm not a big fan of 3rd degree burns.

Perhaps I enjoy my legs to be blister free while using a laptop. I'd also like my tablet computer to be able to connect to wifi, and not over heat while using it outside.

Common sense Pirks, wait... I forgot who I was typing to.


RE: Tony Swash
By Pirks on 4/28/2010 3:32:12 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
I'm not a big fan of 3rd degree burns
So then you're not a big fan of installing Windows on those MacBooks (which leads to the burns). Great, first signs of common sense from you. You're not that hopeless are you? ;)


RE: Tony Swash
By Anoxanmore on 4/28/2010 3:42:38 PM , Rating: 2
I wonder if you realize Apple endorses installing Windows on the MacBooks.. hence the reason for Boot Camp?

After all the Mac can't do anything without Windows anyway.


RE: Tony Swash
By Pirks on 4/28/2010 3:54:12 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
Apple endorses installing Windows on the MacBooks
Allows, not endorses.
quote:
the Mac can't do anything without Windows
A lie.


RE: Tony Swash
By Anoxanmore on 4/28/2010 4:02:04 PM , Rating: 2
Right my apologies, it can't do anything WELL without windows.


RE: Tony Swash
By Pirks on 4/28/2010 5:47:50 PM , Rating: 1
Define "WELL"


RE: Tony Swash
By retrospooty on 4/28/2010 6:41:10 PM , Rating: 5
ooh ooh, let me try.

1. Be used in an enterprise/corporate environment
2. 3d games
3. Be file compatible with the rest of the world
4. Operate the factories that produce macs.

How am I doing?


RE: Tony Swash
By Pirks on 4/29/2010 10:02:52 AM , Rating: 2
1, 2, and 3 - Macs can run 3D, business apps and play Windows media, mkv and such. So fail here.

4 - you don't have proof that factories producing Macs run on Windows, so I'm not sure what to say here... maybe come back when you have proof?


RE: Tony Swash
By retrospooty on 4/30/2010 8:24:22 AM , Rating: 2
uh... Sorry, you are totally wrong on all counts.

1. Almost zero enterprise apps are written to run on Macs.
2. 3d games - the few that are written perform like crap compared to thier PC counterparts.
3. You cant just name a few file formats that a MAc can read and call it "file compatible"
4. MAc are produced by Foxconn and I beleive maybe on e other contract manufacturer. They all use PC's. The business world survives on PC. Every factory, every purchasing agent, every single person involved runs thier work on PC's. the only thing that runs Mac there, it the test equipment on the production floor and QC and engineering labs. Business runs off PC, live with it.


RE: Tony Swash
By Pirks on 4/30/2010 10:34:54 AM , Rating: 2
so you equate "well" with "well for big businesses" uhm okay :)) I guess that stupid Anoxamore girl who escaped yesterday thinks the same way too. poor souls :)))

your part about crap 3D is funny, got any proof?

nobody cares about few exotic file formats like WMF, hardly can score a Mac deficiency here, may be for you and one other geek on the south pole :) maybe


RE: Tony Swash
By retrospooty on 4/30/2010 10:42:16 AM , Rating: 2
not "Big" business... any business. It all runs on PC. Its not that MAc's arent capable, but that no-one writes software for it. Go see how WELL you can use a Mac in a corporate environment. Obvious by your answers you know very little about business at all.

3d games? On Mac? Proof ? LOL - your too funny. Its not like a unknown fact.

Who is talking about media files at all? You said that, not me. I am talking about ALL file types. Ya, me, one geek at the south pole and the 90% of the computer users on planet earth that all use PC.

As far as Foxconn using PC's to build Mac's that is true too. What procurement software do you think they are using to manage the supply chain and order parts ?do you think its the corporate orer procurement software written to run on a MAc? LOL - it cant be cuz there aint none. what about logistics and reverse logistics? Do you evefn know what they mean? Every product you ever bought that wasnt from a fruit stand or farmers market needs it. Its not obscure the entire world we all know runs off it.


RE: Tony Swash
By Pirks on 4/30/2010 5:14:50 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
no-one writes software for it
MS writes software for it. Enough with your lies.
quote:
Its not like a unknown fact
It's rather like your personal belief.
quote:
90% of the computer users on planet earth that all use PC
90% don't use exotic file types hence your point is moot.
quote:
how WELL you can use a Mac in a corporate environment
Never saw any problems when I was working on a PowerMac G5 integrated into our corporate Exchange network, everything worked just fine. Stop lying.


RE: Tony Swash
By retrospooty on 4/30/2010 6:55:17 PM , Rating: 3
You are such a politician.
quote:
no-one writes software for it
I dont mean that literally. There isnt a whole lot ef enterprise software. I dont think you even know what enterprise software means.

quote:
Its not like a unknown fact
Show me some benchmarks, the few games that run on MAc vs a similar configured PC. Go ahead. I DARE you.

quote:
90% of the computer users on planet earth that all use PC
I am not going to argue that it isnt file compatible. sure there are some, but overall they dont work. Above that, your comment is correct, to most people it doesnt matter, they wouldnt need to be copying alot of stuff other than media files, which are fine. Again - the purpose of this thread was "things that apple doesnt do well" file compatibility is an issue to me. Not to all.
quote:
how WELL you can use a Mac in a corporate environment

Again, I dont feel you have a clue what you are talking about. Logging in to a domain and getting email is NOT enough. There are 10's of thousands of applications written for business that dont work on Mac. Ones that I have seen just off the top of my head. Seibel, SAP, Oracle, connectwise, Point, Datatrac, etc. this list goes on and on and on and on. You take a Mac into most any company and you cant get your work done becasue the apps they use arent avaiilable. Yes, MS office, and standard stuff exixts, I am talking enterprise software, you know, the stuff the business world runs on, they dont write it for Mac.


RE: Tony Swash
By astria on 4/30/2010 9:59:45 AM , Rating: 2
4. - the OEM of MB and MBP are: Quanta, Asus and Foxconn


RE: Tony Swash
By retrospooty on 4/30/2010 10:44:53 AM , Rating: 2
thanks...

And all 3 use PC's torun their entire businesses. From parts planning, to logistics, to procurement, end of life planning, QA, QC, every aspect is all run off PC's. The only things that would run on MAcs are test systems ont he line that require MAcs, and SOME systems in engineering and QC that require it.


RE: Tony Swash
By Shatbot on 4/30/2010 11:48:07 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
4 - you don't have proof that factories producing Macs run on Windows, so I'm not sure what to say here... maybe come back when you have proof?


C'mon, they'd obviously run Windows. Sure they might run on macs.

Thinking about the reality of the situation, - there is NO WAY they'd run Macs in anything but a hypothetical situation.


“So far we have not seen a single Android device that does not infringe on our patents." -- Microsoft General Counsel Brad Smith














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