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Print 112 comment(s) - last by nanogeektech.. on Mar 31 at 1:39 PM

Xbox 360 failures are on the rise since the launch of the New Xbox Experience

A known Xbox 360 hardware issue is beginning to surface in significant numbers recently based on research conducted by video game site Joystiq. Tentatively called the Xbox 360 E74 error, one of the lights on the “Ring of Lights” on the front of your Xbox 360 console flashes red and you receive the error code and message: "E74. System Error. Contact Xbox Customer Support". The symptoms involve the bottom right portion of the indicator ring repeatedly flashing on and off and lines or snow will become visible across the screen.

According to the initial Joystiq article posted on March 13, the Microsoft representative Joystiq contacted told them she wasn't familiar with the problem and that they were looking in to the issue. The E74 error is a known issue that is recognized by Microsoft and is documented on Microsoft’s own support site complete with diagrams. The support site has a last revised time stamp of March 3, 2009 as of this writing, predating the Joystiq article that broke the story.

Microsoft’s support site provides no explanation for the error other than to state, “This behavior occurs when the Xbox 360 console experiences a hardware failure.” Joystiq theorizes the E74 error is related to a hardware video problem where the ANA/HANA scaling chip on Xbox 360s equipped with HDMI functionality has come loose.

The main theory put forward that tries to explain why this particular hardware issue is being seen more frequently is the increased graphical stress caused by the introduction of the New Xbox Experience. The New Xbox Experience was launched on November 19 and provided Xbox Live users with a complete rework of the user interface.

One of the significant changes introduced by the New Xbox Experience was the removal of the blade interface. The blades allowed users to access pages of information and features quickly due to the fact they are stacked on top of each other. The new interface uses full windows to spread out the screen.

Another significant change introduced by the New Xbox Experience was the implementation of a graphical avatar system. Users are allowed to choose their avatar from a large group; each avatar is dressed differently, has a unique hair style, and skin color. Once you have chosen your avatar, you are allowed to customize it with new clothing, accessories, and hair. The stress caused by these visual changes may be what is taking many Xbox 360s to the breaking point for unlucky customers.

An interesting pattern can be seen on a Google Trends chart that shows a noticeable spike in users researching the E74 error in November 2008 right around the launch of the New Xbox Experience.

Joystiq’s analysis of survey respondents show a similar pattern of increased E74 failures starting in November of last year. A conspiracy theory making the rounds speculates Microsoft may have changed the system diagnostics test to report Red Ring of Death error as E74 instead to save money. For errors reported as E74, it would force customers to pay $100 for the repair if the error occurs later than 12 months after purchase. The E74 error is not covered under the 3-year extended warranty set in place for the Red Ring of Death malfunction. Joystiq points out that this theory is unlikely because survey respondents are still reporting Red Ring of Death errors after the launch of the New Xbox Experience.

On March 19, Joystiq posted Microsoft’s official response to the E74 issue where they stated:

E74 is a general hardware error on Xbox 360 indicated by a single red flashing light in the Xbox Ring of Light and an error message visible on the television. This error is unrelated to the three flashing red lights error and there is not a single root cause. We encourage anyone who receives this error to contact Xbox Customer support through www.xbox.com/support or 1-800-4-MY-XBOX. The majority of customers who own Xbox 360 consoles continue to have a terrific experience from their first day, and continue to, day in and day out.

As pointed out by Joystiq, Microsoft’s response fails to adequately answer what causes the E74 error, if there has been an increase in incidents, and why it is not covered while the Red Ring of Death is. The evidence is mounting as Joystiq has posted an update on March 23 showing E74 errors have definitely increased since the introduction of the New Xbox Experience. It remains to be seen how long it takes Microsoft to acknowledge there is an issue and deal with in a way that satisfies their current customers. As past history shows an adequate response may take time.

Microsoft’s top game executive, Robbie Bach, president of the Entertainment & Devices group, said at a dinner in July 2008 that Microsoft’s own research shows that gamers have largely forgiven the company for defective Xbox 360s. Depending on how this issue is handled current customers may not be so quick to forgive.





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Xbox 360 fix really works.
By Unicorn0830 on 3/24/09, Rating: 0
RE: Xbox 360 fix really works.
By StevoLincolnite on 3/24/2009 11:27:59 AM , Rating: 2
When I first bought my Xbox a few years back it broke down 2 weeks after I bought it, The issue was that all controllers refused to function with the machine.

Rang up support, they sent out a box for me with everything included, and off it went, 4 weeks later I get it back on my doorstep without a single issue, and has run flawless ever since.

It was an Arcade model as well, I did take advantage of the 20gb Hard Drive for $20 though, so it worked out cheaper than buying the Pro version at the time when they only came with a 20gb HDD.

The Hardware issues with the Xbox 360 is a perpetual pain in the posterior, however the support service's is easy, quick and all round great.

Microsoft also stopped supporting the original Xbox on March the 2nd, and now have a scheme in place for users with a broken original Xbox to get upgraded to an Xbox 360.


RE: Xbox 360 fix really works.
By TomZ on 3/24/2009 11:43:54 AM , Rating: 5
Did you say "4 weeks" and "quick" in the same post?!? I'd be bummed if I just bought an XBOX and was without it for 4 weeks. That seems pretty excessive to me.


By StevoLincolnite on 3/24/2009 12:52:18 PM , Rating: 2
I meant getting everything sorted for freight was quick, I was annoyed that such a new purchase wasn't in my sweaty hands for very long however.


RE: Xbox 360 fix really works.
By lexluthermiester on 3/24/2009 12:23:44 PM , Rating: 4
quote:
When I first bought my Xbox a few years back it broke down 2 weeks after I bought it


quote:
The Hardware issues with the Xbox 360 is a perpetual pain in the posterior


Why the heck would one want to risk all that trouble for a XB360? Buy a PC, PS3 or Wii. None of the issues, more fun! But hey what do I know, I've only been gaming since the Atari 2600 days.

quote:
Microsoft also stopped supporting the original Xbox on March the 2nd, and now have a scheme in place for users with a broken original Xbox to get upgraded to an Xbox 360.


Well of course they did, the system hasn't been sold for about 2 years now.

Clearly I'm not a fan of the 360, but this is truly getting pathetic! MS is in dire need of pulling it's act together. The 360 has been an example of how NOT to launch and manufacture a game system.

Of course they have Windows 7 going for them...


RE: Xbox 360 fix really works.
By StevoLincolnite on 3/24/2009 12:56:18 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Why the heck would one want to risk all that trouble for a XB360? Buy a PC, PS3 or Wii. None of the issues, more fun! But hey what do I know, I've only been gaming since the Atari 2600 days.


I use to program my own games on the old Sony MSX and Commodore 64, before you had "Demo Discs" you used to get magazines with the code to program your own! I do have a PC and a PS3 though.

quote:
Well of course they did, the system hasn't been sold for about 2 years now. Clearly I'm not a fan of the 360, but this is truly getting pathetic! MS is in dire need of pulling it's act together. The 360 has been an example of how NOT to launch and manufacture a game system. Of course they have Windows 7 going for them...


Of course they did? I don't recall any other console manufacturer doing the same, I would love for my PS2 to break down and then Sony hand me a subsided/free PS3!

I agree the launch was pretty crap, the failure rates have been pretty crap, and the time it has taken to permanently fix the issues have been pretty crap, but the machine does have some good sides to it which aren't hardware related. (Xbox Live? Netflix? Backwards compatibility to some pretty golden games?).


RE: Xbox 360 fix really works.
By CZroe on 3/29/2009 2:34:25 AM , Rating: 2
Only IN WARRANTY XBOXes would get replaced with a 360, so stop acting like it's generous. They were still charging $180 for one at the Newnan, GA Circuit City when it shut down late last year (what happened to MS matching the proce of the PS2? ;)), but I've seen very little indication that others have been sold in-warranty for years.


RE: Xbox 360 fix really works.
By wempa on 3/24/2009 12:39:12 PM , Rating: 3
The X clamp replacement is one of the most popular. There are a number of different tutorials online for this and you also don't need to spend more than a few dollars in parts. My Xbox 360 gave me the RROD back in October of last year. I did the X clamp fix and it's been running fine ever since. It's the best money I ever spent !


RE: Xbox 360 fix really works.
By pro5 on 3/25/2009 5:14:21 AM , Rating: 4
E74 is NOT RROD.. Trust me, if your Ana chip goes you are basically fucked. No towel wraps, no quick fix.. it's an inherent and damaging flaw more severe than the clamp/heat issue.


RE: Xbox 360 fix really works.
By afkrotch on 3/26/2009 11:18:09 AM , Rating: 2
If you get 3 red lights, it's an RROD. Different reason for getting it, but it's still a RROD.


RE: Xbox 360 fix really works.
By MRwizard on 3/27/2009 6:46:01 AM , Rating: 3
you know you don't have to do that with the PS3, right?


What we need is a CahX processor
By Indianapolis on 3/24/2009 11:21:35 AM , Rating: 5
quote:
Once you have chosen your avatar, you are allowed to customize it with new clothing, accessories, and hair. The stress caused by these visual changes may be what is taking many Xbox 360s to the breaking point for unlucky customers.


This is why I've been saying that we need a dedicated CahX (clothing, accessories, and hair) processor. We have PhsyX...it's only a matter of time until CahX.




RE: What we need is a CahX processor
By homerdog on 3/24/2009 11:31:08 AM , Rating: 5
Yeah I get it. Cocks.


RE: What we need is a CahX processor
By Indianapolis on 3/24/2009 12:39:46 PM , Rating: 3
Wow. You must have a degree in cryptology. Either that, or you're an expert on CahX.


By FITCamaro on 3/24/2009 4:40:40 PM , Rating: 1
This is only a 3 but his captain obvious comment is a 5?


RE: What we need is a CahX processor
By hduser on 3/24/2009 5:24:45 PM , Rating: 2
What if I reversed the fan on my Cahx processor?


By Black69ta on 3/25/2009 12:19:05 AM , Rating: 2
So let me get this straight, do you want your system to operate on Winblows, Or MSsux?

I remember in in the days of MSDOS 6.2 and Windows 3.11, a freind change a few files in a HEX editor and changed all the txt prompts to childish things but it was funny how easy it was to change almost the whole UI back then even commands were perverted


E74
By Rand3000 on 3/24/2009 12:22:23 PM , Rating: 2
I got the E74 right after applying the new Xbox Experience update. My box was under warranty so I got repaired at no cost, but was still a pain. I think that's the 5th time I've had to send my box back.




RE: E74
By dubldwn on 3/24/2009 12:58:07 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I think that's the 5th time I've had to send my box back.

You think? You’re not sure? Could be 4 times, or maybe a half dozen? I don’t know what’s more amazing: that your 360 broke approximately 5 times, or that you are going to continue to support the system. If I had anything that broke approximately 5 times, that’s the last they’d see of me.

By the way, according to the article, E74 isn’t covered under the 3 year warranty, which implies your 360 broke 5 times in one year. You guys must REALLY like the software to put up with that.


RE: E74
By Aloonatic on 3/24/2009 1:18:25 PM , Rating: 2
If anyone reading this is a post grad psych student looking for something to study for a Phd or the like, please would you carry out a study on xBox 360 users and why there are so many of them who are not only willing to put up with having to send their console back so many times but occasionally seem almost happy to do so.

It is amazing that people are willing to put up with this hassle, although by now you've probably invested quite a lot of money into your console with the add-on HDs, recharge packs, wireless etc, plenty of games too, and most of your friends have an xBox as well.

I guess MS realise that they have you in their pocket now and you aren't going to switch to a PS3 any time soon.

It really is a shame that these problems keep coming back to to haunt the xBox 360, it really is a great piece of kit, when it's working.

Is this problem effecting the newer revisions of the console and does anyone know how have the die shrinks affected reliability with the old "classic" red light failures?


RE: E74
By Donkeyshins on 3/25/2009 11:56:51 AM , Rating: 2
While you are at it, have them study people who keep buying GM vehicles...or for that matter, Jaguars. Or Sony PCs.

Same problem...same behavior.


RE: E74
By HackSacken on 3/28/2009 12:05:29 PM , Rating: 2
If your XB360 has broken 5 times; my mind can't help but think with this equation, the constant variable causing the issue maybe U. :/


haha!
By pro5 on 3/25/2009 5:11:32 AM , Rating: 2
Glad this is coming out in the open.

I personally am down to the tune of £300 thanks to the E74 error. I bought a 2nd wave Xbox 360 way back in 2006 IIRC.. On the very first day it had graphical corruption but went on to give me quite a few hours of decent service. However.. just after 12 months it kept crashing more and more and I got intermittent RROD and E74. Just as I was ready to send it to MS the only error it would give was E74 (ANA chip).. which wasn't covered by MS for free and left me very annoyed. So much in fact I chose to sell up all the stuff n games I'd bought for it and dump it in the trash where it belonged. If it had just been an RROD then that's one thing (still annoying and very bad on MS' part allowing this known fault through) but when I read that any other error was chargable EVEN THOUGH IT WAS ALL CONNECTED TO THIER SUB PAR DESIGN I just couldn't justify spending another penny on games for the system.

MS really pulled one over on the gamers this generation, and I learned my lesson... never again will I buy an MS console. £300 down and I wasn't the type who played it 24/7. Sometimes I'd go weeks without playing.. Never moved it, esp when turned on.. always kept it dust free - vertically and with loads of space - didn't matter.. it got me and at least 3 of my mates with them.. all dead.. most of us gave up and bought a PS3 instead which is a whole different quality item... I'm just annoyed as I liked stuff like Dead Rising on the box (and gears). I'd even spent a fair bit on live buying online arcade games which were useless and non resellable.

Steer clear of Xbox 360. Anyone who has had this happen to them should have learned that already.. do not fall for the 'low' price tag and be tempted it's just not worth it




RE: haha!
By PoohPall on 3/26/2009 1:07:47 AM , Rating: 2
I won't use quality and Sony in one sentence. The only quality element in the PS is the "Cell" processor.



RE: haha!
By William Gaatjes on 3/28/2009 4:39:46 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
I won't use quality and Sony in one sentence. The only quality element in the PS is the "Cell" processor.


I always let people read this link when they talk nonsense.

http://www.ps3vault.com/how-to-kill-a-ps3-console-...

Maybe biased, but i sure like to see microsoft do that same test with the xbox360.


red ring
By hotadef on 3/24/2009 12:09:07 PM , Rating: 5
for some reason i think this new problem is the same problem. i think with the last udpate, they changed how xbox would react. so now instead of the hardware failure showing 3 red rings it give another error that is now not under warranty




Please
By elmikethemike on 3/24/2009 10:13:55 PM , Rating: 5
The 360 has been on the market for years. All these problems should have long been addressed and fixed by now. It's insanity that you still have the RRoD, scratched discs, and now this bogus E74 error. Gimme a break.

Like the MS fanboys like to point out, the PS1 and PS2 weren't without their problems. What they like to forget is how quickly those issues were resolved and how well the consoles went on to sell.

Over 3 years after launch and STILL hardware problems. 'Nuff said.




By inperfectdarkness on 3/24/2009 11:21:41 AM , Rating: 2
seriously. but my Wii still worked--even if it had those annoying "anomalies" on the screen.




By Clauzii on 3/24/2009 12:43:22 PM , Rating: 2
Thermal Pads are nice for a short while, but looses the ability to fill out gaps in a few weeks/months. Why they still use that is beyond normal sense, and is probably still a part of the problems with the XBox360.




By tdawg on 3/24/2009 3:15:48 PM , Rating: 2
My 360 suffered from this over a year ago, when I was playing Lego Star Wars heavily. It would snow over and discolor and then eventually it would not power on at all. Mine is an older 360, probably closer to 1st generation, with no HDMI connection. The worst part about this is that I had to pay $100 for MS to fix this. :(




Is the NXE really that demanding?
By gss4w on 3/24/2009 9:29:18 PM , Rating: 2
I don't think the NXE is more demanding than playing a regular video game such as Halo. Most of the time people are using the Xbox is to play games. So I don't think the argument that the NXE puts more stress on the system is really true.




love the pic
By Ozziedogg on 3/25/2009 4:45:28 AM , Rating: 2
I can just imagine the caption under the pic of Saruman:

"The power of Isengard is at your command, Ballmer lord of the earth!"




xbox live/windows live
By vistaisfine on 3/28/2009 2:05:23 AM , Rating: 2
its a great piece of software and would be the main reason why the xbox is still so popular.




This is getting boring
By William Gaatjes on 3/28/2009 4:17:46 AM , Rating: 2
Design the damn thing properly for once and for all!

The goldfish syndrome is alive and kickking...




360 Rocks
By ol1bit on 3/29/2009 1:35:09 PM , Rating: 2
I have all 3, 360, PS3, and Wii.

Even with the 360 failures (mine has failed twice), it still have the best user interface and the best online experience.

And they cover it if it breaks out of warranty for $100, and you get another year warranty.

I end up just using the PS3 for Blu-Ray, still waiting for the full Gran Turismo. The PS3 must be murder to program for!




Good Thing
By afkrotch on 3/24/2009 11:37:30 AM , Rating: 1
Well, I'm modding mine, so hopefully I won't have this issue.




Woow....I own both Consoles...
By nanogeektech on 3/31/2009 1:39:02 PM , Rating: 1
Launch day 360...and launch day PS3 w/BC and 120GB upgrade HDD.

Loved my 360 when I first made the purchase....3 years later and a PS3 later...I really do not play my 360 that much..I have one nagging issue...my disc tray would not open when I press eject..it takes a while to eject..

Since my best friend has had 2 360 die on him at about the same time I let him use my 360 until he gets both his console back...

I am biasis and I perfer my PS3...over my 360...anyday...I believe the games on my PS3 offers a better experience...for example...KillZone 2..MGS4..Folklore(a little game not too many people know about that is just as good or better than anything on 360)..uncharted..just to name a few..

I see my PS3 as a 65" 3D OLED HD Display w/ a 8.1 Digital THX certified surround system

My 360 at this moment in time (March 2009) feels like a 27" inch CRT HD display with no surround sound...

At this moment I perfer the PS3 gaming experience especially when it comes to exclusives......

also I feel the build quailty of the PS3 is far better than the 360...you can sit them down side by side and turn them on and right away you can see and hear the difference in quailty....

and for those that think MS should remove themselves from the Console market is..pretty stupid...Sony needs MS and MS needs Sony...competition only ensures quailty...

Look at the Wii(great hardware) it has no competition...shitty software




Right Whatever...Fudge Anyone ?
By PoohPall on 3/26/09, Rating: 0
Story needs more than a Joystiq web survey
By amandahugnkiss on 3/24/09, Rating: -1
By TerranMagistrate on 3/24/2009 1:08:58 PM , Rating: 5
Yea, it's probably better to just ignore this and just pretend it isn't happening at all.


By omnicronx on 3/24/2009 4:32:47 PM , Rating: 2
Hes kind of correct though, this originally came about by an online pole. Furthermore, it was an issue long before the 360 update. Joystiq even links to a Google trends chart showing search histories.

http://www.google.com/trends?q=+RRoD%2C+E74%2C+%22...

As you can see, there are still many searches on the subject in October, with many of the errors being searched during Christmas when people are more likely to be at home playing games. In fact at the end of October (before the new ui was released), people were searching it almost as much as the most of November.

There is obviously a problem, but we do not know how widespread it is, nor do we know the cause.


By amandahugnkiss on 3/24/2009 8:25:19 PM , Rating: 3
you must be right, getting voted up and all. It's a far better idea to blow a story with no basis out of proportion and get on the bandwagon so can you can look like every other drone dishing out the crap comments.

Got any idea how many of the respondants actually own a Xbox 360? How many were PS3 fanboys? How many own neither? You don't know this info and neither does Joystiq, but it was on the www, so it must be true :).

"Yea, it's probably better to just ignore this and just pretend it isn't happening at all." - If it happens to my machine, I'll deal with it then, until then, what exactly is the problem with ignoring it?


Not Suprised...
By ExarKun333 on 3/24/09, Rating: -1
RE: Not Suprised...
By omnicronx on 3/24/09, Rating: 0
RE: Not Suprised...
By 4runnerxp on 3/24/2009 11:43:33 AM , Rating: 2
I play cod4 off my hard drive all the time and I never experience any problems with it. Sometimes though I play fifa 08 off my dvd drive and it freezes up. Shouldnt it be the other way around with your theory, or my 360 is just screwed. I never had this problem with either of my ps2's and ive had them for 7 years now, and I have never heard of this many problems with a ps3. I just think its microsoft being microsoft.


RE: Not Suprised...
By quiksilvr on 3/24/2009 1:33:58 PM , Rating: 2
I cannot condone the fact how much Microsoft has messed up the 360 with respects to its hardware and now even its software. How do you take out a 150 W to 200W ac adapter OUT of the console and it STILL has a horrible failure rate? I just cannot comprehend it for the life of me. HOW DO YOU MESS UP THAT BADLY?

Another huge mistake was wasting time and money with NXE. I would have much rather had a revamped blade interface and a cleaner xbox live marketplace like how the PS3 did with theirs. There is no need for avatars and all the ungodly amount of advertisements sprinkled all over the damn place, which leads me to my final point.

I am personally against having to pay to play online. I'm already paying for the high speed internet (which is not cheap). Now if there were NO advertisements I'd be ok with it, but given the fact that we now have MORE advertisements AND we still have to pay $50 a year, I call bullsh|t. It should either be free WITH advertisements or you pay to REMOVE advertisements.


RE: Not Suprised...
By nmyron on 3/25/2009 2:28:11 PM , Rating: 2
Kudos to you sir... I fully respect and back up your post. I mean, honestly, I have 4 friends that have purchased X360s, and every one of them has had their device replaced at least once for various errors over the years. One person spent almost $300 getting his fixed, before MS acknowledged the RROD issue. Luckily he kept all repair reciepts, and Microsoft refunded all service charges incurred due to the RROD issue, after he had it for a 4th time when MS had finally acknowledged it and extended the warranty. But, at the same time, I've got 6 other friends, all with PS3's, and NONE of those have had issues since purchase, and most of us purchased our PS3's after launch, to get the 60GB console for full backwards compatibility.

As far as online service, I feel that it is crap to force a consumer to purchase a way to connect your console to the internet and play online. With my PS3, I play online whenever I like, all I purchase is my internet service. I have no ad's, unless I go into the PSN Store, and the only adds there are for other PS games. I'll admit, MS had the one up with the ability to stream movies to the console, and they still do in the fact that they have partnered with Netflix to allow online play of many of the Netflix features. But, with some of the more recent updates to the PS3 software, I've become able rent and stream online movies in HD or SD formats. So, the PS3 is catching up there. But, all in all, I've played the PS3, the X360, and have to say, I wouldn't purchase the x360 for any reason. I'm a die hard MS fan, I love their software. But, I think that they've a lot to learn in building a console that will last, and building one tailored for the user and how it will be used...


RE: Not Suprised...
By ExarKun333 on 3/24/2009 11:47:37 AM , Rating: 2
LOL, are you serious? Dust-filled consoles choked with dust and possibly cigarette smoke doesn't matter? Have you ever cleaned out your computer before?


RE: Not Suprised...
By 4runnerxp on 3/24/2009 12:05:44 PM , Rating: 2
yea i understand that I also fried a laptop after 2 years of constant use from dust build up it was gross. I just think that the 360 having this many problems is suffering mainly from design flaws, you do not hear about any playstation products having these problems.

I think my 360 is on the verge of breaking again and it was just replaced last july, and I keep it on a glass table off the ground and do what I can to keep it from getting dust in it.


RE: Not Suprised...
By callmeroy on 3/24/2009 12:13:04 PM , Rating: 2
I think you took his reply out of context (at least I hope you did anyone who thinks dust and dirt doesn't matter to the performance or long term health of electronics - let alone a computer or a console is just silly beyond all resonable doubt)....I think he meant the dust and dirt issue doesn't DIRECTLY have anything to do with the SPECIFIC issue stated, not that he thinks it doesn't matter at all.


RE: Not Suprised...
By 4runnerxp on 3/24/2009 12:21:53 PM , Rating: 5
I think i may have also oops...damn you microsoft for potentially creating a new problem that isnt covered under warranty. I cant wait to buy my ps3 and be done with it.


RE: Not Suprised...
By omnicronx on 3/24/2009 12:58:29 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I think you took his reply out of context

Exactly, the particular issue should have nothing to do with dust, and dirt, at least not on the scale that is being reported.

quote:
(at least I hope you did anyone who thinks dust and dirt doesn't matter to the performance or long term health of electronics - let alone a computer or a console is just silly beyond all reasonable doubt)....I think he meant the dust and dirt issue doesn't DIRECTLY have anything to do with the SPECIFIC issue stated, not that he thinks it doesn't matter at all.
You hoped right ;)

I just don't see how a new ui would have any effect on peoples consoles when those same people were playing far more graphically intense games without issue long before the patch was released.

I don't have an HDMI capable 360, so I cannot really comment on this front, but I have definitely noticed my and others peoples 360's struggling and being a lot hotter when running from the HD.

And FT, I understand the HD is separately encased, but the heat has to go somewhere, and there is nothing pushing the air from the separate encasing. I only play newer games that are fully patched, NFL09 for one glitches every time you hut the ball, on my 360 and my friends (he has an hdmi model). The top and the bottom of the case get extremely hot compared to using the DVD rom which leads me to believe the heat is not being dissipated from the separate casing.


RE: Not Suprised...
By theapparition on 3/24/2009 11:54:42 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Unless you are throwing your 360 around, nothing should cause the interconnects to became separated. Also being dusty and dirty should not have anything to do with this issue.

Higher heat can cause different materials to expand at different rates, causing undue stress in the soldered connections.

Not saying that's happening here, but heat can definately cause interconnects to fail.


RE: Not Suprised...
By omnicronx on 3/24/2009 1:08:07 PM , Rating: 2
I meant in terms of badly handling your 360, which is what the OP was mentioning ;)

Of course heat can cause interconnects to fail, but dust and dirt does not explain the high amounts of 360's failing at the same time. Even a dust filled heatsync (360 does not really have alot of fins or anything to get dust caught in ) should not cause the problems being mentioned, especially all at the same time.


RE: Not Suprised...
By FITCamaro on 3/24/2009 12:20:22 PM , Rating: 2
The hard drive is mounted outside the main system. It's doubtful that the little bit of heat transferred through the thick plastic would increase the temperature of the internal components to any significant degree.

As far as the glitches, that could just be from the fact that the games weren't designed to run off the hard drive and there is a bug from Microsoft's fix to allow you to do it.

Personally I don't see how the NXE could cause the system any real stress. The console is capable of HD graphics. How could a crappy avatar stress it out? It's doubtful that the console is rendering the avatar or anything else regarding the interface when you're in-game. Other than the menu that pops up when you press the Xbox button on the controller.


RE: Not Suprised...
By PAPutzback on 3/24/2009 2:45:02 PM , Rating: 2
I was wondering when someone was going to correct omnicronx about the HDD being on the outside.

But I do know there is something wrong with the NXE. It killed my brand new 360 the day I got it last December when it did its update. Before I even got to play it I had to send it back.

I do hit all my components with compressed air frequently because the fans pull some serious dust in over a short period of time.


RE: Not Suprised...
By FITCamaro on 3/24/2009 4:32:17 PM , Rating: 2
I believe there was a known software issue with the NXE bricking some systems.

They're saying this issue is caused by the NXE putting too much stress on the hardware.


RE: Not Suprised...
By Hiawa23 on 3/24/2009 4:01:10 PM , Rating: 2
I am sorry but I run all my games from the HDD. I have over 50 games & all that I play are installed. Seems to me installing the games helps the console as it runs cooler, quieter. I have 2 consoles. An 11/3/05 unit that was repaired in June08, been fine since & a 3/2008 model that has had no issues at all. I think it's ashame that such an impressive console continues to have some issue. I also own a PS3 & Wii, actually bought the Wiii for my kid as I don't like that at all but the PS3 is pretty amazing, & no failures, but I prefer the 360 to it especially online as the mic quality is terrible compared to the 360, but it's ashame MS can't seem to get things corrected & more amazing, despite all the issues gamers continue to buy the consoles. I sure hope MS gets the next console right, cause the 360 should be running circles around the PS3 by now & I think the reliability issues are costing sales.


RE: Not Suprised...
By omnicronx on 3/24/2009 4:07:58 PM , Rating: 2
No need to go crazy, it was just my own little theory, I was not implying all 360's would be affected, nor do I have any proof to link 360 HD's to the failure in question. This error is not as widescale like RROD was, whatever the cause my be.


RE: Not Suprised...
By Hiawa23 on 3/24/2009 4:41:43 PM , Rating: 2
No need to go crazy, it was just my own little theory, I was not implying all 360's would be affected, nor do I have any proof to link 360 HD's to the failure in question. This error is not as widescale like RROD was, whatever the cause my be.

no one is going crazy, just posted just like you. No big deal.


RE: Not Suprised...
By Slacker17 on 3/24/2009 4:16:12 PM , Rating: 2
You can't have over 50 games installed on your hard drive games are around 6.5 to 7 gig. per disc so you would have to have at least a 350 gig. hard drive


RE: Not Suprised...
By oxymojoe on 3/24/2009 5:04:19 PM , Rating: 2
Dont' you think this is simply inflammatory aimed at getting attention?

This isn't news. My Wii works great, but I never play it. That's probably why you don't hear about Wii's exploding every week. Then again my cell phone has about the same amount of power.

Everyone knows the 360 has had issues, like everything else. If the Wii or PS3 had some fancy lights and a catchy name for a hardware/software failure... combined with MS fame/infamy well there you have it. Hating on MS is leisure activity/hobby for many people.

I never had a problem with my 360..yet. PS3? Not till Sony comes off its high horse, and high price. I'm not paying them back for the billions they spent on BR. Suck it up.


RE: Not Suprised...
By crazyblackman on 3/24/09, Rating: 0
RE: Not Suprised...
By Hiawa23 on 3/24/2009 6:32:31 PM , Rating: 2
You can't have over 50 games installed on your hard drive games are around 6.5 to 7 gig. per disc so you would have to have at least a 350 gig. hard drive

for you to even feel the need to post that is hilarious. I got the 120 drive & I think at any one time I have 10-11 games installed. I own over 50 games for the console of course 50 games are not installed at the same time, LOL.


RE: Not Suprised...
By bety on 3/24/2009 7:29:57 PM , Rating: 2
Then owning 50 games is totally irrelevant no?


RE: Not Suprised...
By crazyblackman on 3/24/2009 11:12:40 PM , Rating: 1
If you purchased 50 games for that piece of crap system...you are an idiot with money.

If you bought another 360 after the first one failed...you are an idiot.

If you defended M$ because they finally offered you a 3yr warranty for their KNOWN RROD failures, but it didn't cover other KNOWN problems...you are an idiot.

If you paid for those overpriced accessories that break frequently and harddrives that filled up quickly...you are an idiot.

If you paid $50 per yr for XBL when it didn't allow you to play your purchased games offline...you are an idiot.

If you tried to defend the 360 cause it "had the best games"...you are an idiot.

If you got excited over those stupid, childish looking avatars that made your 360 look like a kids game console rather than a family entertainment hub...you are an idiot.

If you STILL think that a PS3 is overpriced for what you get in entertainment value...you are an idiot. I could go on and on.

Many of you in this forum have been idiots for a very long time. I can almost name names...but I won't go there, Omnicronx.


RE: Not Suprised...
By PARANOID365 on 3/25/2009 5:27:21 AM , Rating: 1
GET BACK UNDER YOUR BRIDGE YOU FUCKING PS3 TROLL !!


RE: Not Suprised...
By Hiawa23 on 3/25/2009 8:27:27 AM , Rating: 2
If you purchased 50 games for that piece of crap system...you are an idiot with money.

If you bought another 360 after the first one failed...you are an idiot.

If you defended M$ because they finally offered you a 3yr warranty for their KNOWN RROD failures, but it didn't cover other KNOWN problems...you are an idiot.


I am not one to tell any other adult what to do with his or her money. Yes, I have 2 360's, one in my living room one in my gameroom, the launch model was repaired June 08 & has been fine since, & the newer model has been fine. Some of you cats are hilarious, calling others idiots, names, just cause their opinion differs. What is this the teen board or something. Yes, I own over 50 games for the 360, & 6 for the PS3. I am not defending MS at all, but to me the 360 is a better games, & online value. You can call me any name you want which I find hilarious. Something I would expect on the teen videogame boards or something, but come on, so let's juat agree to disagree & leave it at that & have a blessed day. I have bashed MS from jump, but like I said I have had less issues with my 360s than both PS1 & PS2, so I don't base my purchases on problems others have. The 360 has been fine to me.


RE: Not Suprised...
By lexluthermiester on 3/25/2009 10:59:02 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Some of you cats are hilarious, calling others idiots, names, just cause their opinion differs.


Couldn't agree more. But this is a forum where many of the folks here are quite childish.

quote:
I am not defending MS at all, but to me the 360 is a better games, & online value.


In a way you are, but only to the point of defending your purchase of one of their products. And what online value? You pay just to access it and then pay more[and way to much] for content. MS is trying to have it's cake and eat it too. MS needs to take an example from Nintendo. Access to online features? Free. Access to a lot of content? Free. Cost of other content? Reasonable. The same is true for PSN for the PS3. I'll take a PC, PS3 and Wii over 360 any day of the week. But I respect that others have choices. And to be fair, there are some GREAT games for the 360. But not enough for me to buy one...


RE: Not Suprised...
By d1c1ple on 3/26/2009 12:14:33 AM , Rating: 2
I'm very frustrated. After picking up Halo Wars... my box started giving diagonal lines on the screen. Mind you I'm on my 3rd system due to RROD on original, 2nd replacement and now video issues on current unit. I call support only to be told my system has been flagged as unrepairable due to Terms of Use/Tampering which is a complete joke since this is a sealed unit that only gets updates via xbox live... I think it's a sham and they don't want to replace my system yet again...


Microsoft needs to get out of Console business
By SerafinaEva on 3/24/09, Rating: -1
RE: Microsoft needs to get out of Console business
By Hiawa23 on 3/24/2009 4:28:15 PM , Rating: 3
This is why Microsoft needs to get out off the Console business.

I don't agree as competition is always good & if there was no 360 the PS3 would still be $600. They just need to make sure not to farm development to China trying to save a buck, & properly test the next Xbox before launch. I am not making any excuses for MS, but honestly, I had less problems with my 360s than I had with the PS1 & PS2, so the 360 has been fine for me.


By Kougar on 3/24/2009 4:46:51 PM , Rating: 3
They did test the 360 and launched it anyway figuring they could get away with it, despite the vocal concerns of some engineers stating the hardware wasn't in good enough shape yet.

Despite how much it has eaten into their profits, I would be amazed if they conducted proper tests and actually listened to the results. What I mean is, if the decision to wait or go meant a launch delay I'm sure they'll launch regardless, just as they did with the 360.

http://venturebeat.com/2008/09/05/xbox-360-defects...


RE: Microsoft needs to get out of Console business
By bety on 3/24/2009 7:26:31 PM , Rating: 2
Your anecdotal experience is irrelevant and yes, competition is good. Foisting known-faulty products, with shoddy design onto the public is not good, it simply lowers the bar/standards and hurts the industry as a whole. Note that we EXPECT MS software to be full of bugs.


By straycat74 on 3/24/2009 10:05:29 PM , Rating: 5
Sony would never sell shoddy products for a premium price by just slapping their name on it.


By Belard on 3/25/2009 9:22:38 AM , Rating: 1
LOL! That's funny! Oh, you're joking, right!?

Sony does make some good stuff, but not everything they make is good. I like SONY's: Phones, conoles (if I bought one), TVs, VCRs-DVD players. I wouldn't touch a SONY: Computer (hardware good, support bad), car stereos, walkmans (other than included in phone) and speakers.


By PoohPall on 3/26/2009 1:19:35 AM , Rating: 2
Ha ha. Ummm choose option A) to exit reality distortion field. Have a nice day.

I have been in the business for many many years. Sony products are generally a joke. Sony should stick with sound products that is ALL they are good at.


By lexluthermiester on 3/25/2009 10:47:19 PM , Rating: 1
I'm not sure why I bother posting on DT... Many of the users are childish, uninformed half-wits. And DT themselves seem to have no problems issuing censorship when it suits them. Very disheartening...


RE: Microsoft needs to get out of Console business
By Bateluer on 3/24/2009 1:19:18 PM , Rating: 4
Unfortunately, there are way more 360s out there than PS3s, so developers are going to focus more on the 360. Obviously, there are a lot more Wiis out there as well, but developers are scratching their butts with actually developing anything more than kiddie children's games or lame farm animal games.

I would prefer a PS3 over a 360 personally but they need to get the cost down, though the PC still wins hands down.


By Belard on 3/25/2009 9:47:45 AM , Rating: 3
While the PS3 is more "expensive" at $400/500. It is typically $100 more expensive than the xbox360 equivelent.

That $100 difference includes a Blue-Ray player, blue-tooth, wireless (Wifi) networking, bigger HD, user-upgradable HD to any size on the market. The $500 model vs $400 360, still has the above, bigger HD and an extra game. Looking at Newegg, its now $470 with 2 games (one is a voucher).

Lets see... on Newegg..
$87 for a wifi adaptor (Built inside PS3)
$40 for a 512mb memory card (Sony can use a USB Flash drive)

How about a USB keyboard and mouse... oops!

Not needed to buy new 360 cases or PSUs. Cable mess. Loud drives.

PC doesn't win hands down anymore... game support for PC is in the toilet. EA with their SecureROM is really not helping.


By omnicronx on 3/24/2009 1:49:00 PM , Rating: 4
quote:
If any other companies have created as faulty a hardware as MS has, they would of gone out of business by now.
I'm not trying to defend MS here, next time around their business will suffer because of their shotty hardware, but it seems many people (including yourself) seem to be losing your long term memory.

The PS2 had a terrible launch failure rate. Remember the Red box PS2's? Yep, many of them failed within a year of purchase, or would not read certain coloured bottom discs.
The difference being Sony did not replace many peoples consoles if it was after one year, I remember having to sit on the phone for 2 hours before I got someone that was willing to send me a new console. These figures were never widely released to the public, but Sony definitely acknowledged the issue, and I did get a free PS2 because of it. It was estimated the first year of PS2 failures was as high was 20%, although it fell dramatically after that (to well under 5%, some say as low as 1-2%).

This was the reason I was originally swayed to the 360 (i bought it before my PS3), although I am now finding myself using my PS3 a lot more.


RE: Microsoft needs to get out of Console business
By chick0n on 3/24/09, Rating: 0
By omnicronx on 3/24/2009 4:06:04 PM , Rating: 3
The 360 is in a league of its own that is for sure, but that was not the point of my post. The PS2 definitely had its own share of problems, and yet it turned out to be the best selling console ever. Unfortunately people do forget about the past, and while certain people may not take a chance with the next 360, some people surely will.


RE: Microsoft needs to get out of Console business
By gss4w on 3/24/2009 9:26:44 PM , Rating: 4
I think the reliability problems with the Xbox 360 probably won't have much impact on sales of whatever the next Xbox is named. After all, people are still buying 360's even though it is well known to have reliability problems. Also Microsoft has handled the faults with the 360 relatively well with extending the warranty, so that will make people who had a 360 go bad be less apprehensive about buying the next console.


By TheDoc9 on 3/25/2009 10:31:57 AM , Rating: 3
It's pretty sad when people are still willing to buy the console when they're aware of such a poorly constructed piece of hardware. It either says a lot about the competition or a lot about the people.


RE: Microsoft needs to get out of Console business
By BZDTemp on 3/24/2009 5:51:34 PM , Rating: 1
Also pretty important there are still new games coming for the PS2 something which can not be said for the XBOX.

Microsoft could not kill the XBOX fast enough and I am sure the same thing will happen to the 360. Sony in contrast has stated the PS3 is gonna be here for a long time (and it is build to last).


By Hiawa23 on 3/24/2009 6:29:11 PM , Rating: 2
Also pretty important there are still new games coming for the PS2 something which can not be said for the XBOX.

Microsoft could not kill the XBOX fast enough and I am sure the same thing will happen to the 360. Sony in contrast has stated the PS3 is gonna be here for a long time (and it is build to last).


come on, MS had to put the Xbox1 to bed as soon as they could as it wasn't making them money, Nvidia was killing them with each console sold, so I understand why they had to put that to bed, & yeah there are games mostly multiplatform games coming to the PS2, but honestly, the last PS2 I was interested in was GOW2. MS, despite the reliability issues with the 360 is still in a better position than they were with the Xbox, & everytime I hear someone say this so called 10 year lifespan makes no sense to me cause I usually move on when a new console comes, & I don't consider the PS2 having a 10 year lifespan when the little games that do get released are usually crap stuff.


By StevoLincolnite on 3/24/2009 10:34:13 PM , Rating: 3
In 2008, games were still being released for the original Xbox, so really it wasn't killed off that quickly! (Madden 09 comes to mind).

Still it took years after the Sega Dreamcast died and publishers were still releasing games for it.


By FITCamaro on 3/24/2009 4:36:46 PM , Rating: 4
Yeah they should pull out of a market that they are number 2 in hardware sales and winning entirely in terms of software sales and attach rates.

I won't deny the PS3 has a better track record in terms of reliability. But the 360 is a better GAMES CONSOLE. Microsoft got the gaming experience right. Sony killed themselves with a high cost of entry in the beginning and bet on their name recognition to carry them forward.

Even developers are threatening to pull PS3 support due to its poor sales.


By FITCamaro on 3/24/2009 4:38:10 PM , Rating: 3
And as others have said, don't act like Sony's consoles have never had issues. Many early PS2s had issues with the DVD laser. I worked at Best Buy when they released and we were getting back dozens a month.


By Hiawa23 on 3/24/2009 4:53:23 PM , Rating: 2
Yeah they should pull out of a market that they are number 2 in hardware sales and winning entirely in terms of software sales and attach rates.

I won't deny the PS3 has a better track record in terms of reliability. But the 360 is a better GAMES CONSOLE. Microsoft got the gaming experience right. Sony killed themselves with a high cost of entry in the beginning and bet on their name recognition to carry them forward.

Even developers are threatening to pull PS3 support due to its poor sales.


That's what I was trying to say. As far as my tastes go, the 360 is a better games machine especially for online, & I actually like the NXE, so things are by no means rosey for Sony. Like I said I own both consoles & the only thing I grade consoles on are the games, so I am fine with my experience on the 360, but you can't help but to shake your head at MS. Sony all but handed this gen to em with their arrogance.


By bighairycamel on 3/24/2009 5:28:11 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I won't deny the PS3 has a better track record in terms of reliability. But the 360 is a better GAMES CONSOLE.

I thoroughly enjoy both as far as games. I enjoy the Gears of War and Fable exclusives on 360 and I also love the Metal Gear Solid and Killzone exclusives on PS3 (soon to include God of War, can't wait). They are both equivalent in my eyes as far as a games console goes.

But I will also say that my 360 has about 5 different issues (random freezing/crashing, tray will eject 7 times before it accepts a game, USB controllers aren't recognized, etc.) and unfortunately it is out of warranty for all but the RROD which it has already been returned once for. The PS3 has been flawless. Because of this, I now only buy exclusives for the 360 and all multi-platform games I buy for PS3.


RE: Microsoft needs to get out of Console business
By Citag on 3/24/09, Rating: 0
By nixoofta on 3/24/2009 8:39:08 PM , Rating: 2
Wow,..how'd you,..unh,...I jus' can't,...geez,...my panties won't stay in a bunch like that.


By OblivionMage on 3/24/2009 5:24:38 PM , Rating: 1
I completely disagree - Microsoft has, in my opinion (of course...), the best console system and network (Xbox-Live) of any console around.

There are hardware issues, but do not attribute that to a low quality product.

quote:
creating a shoddy product and charging hundreds for it


Please research or at least back up your claims. Microsoft lost money on Xbox 360's, and they still might. In no way are they gouging people like Apple did with the iPhone release.


RE: Microsoft needs to get out of Console business
By pro5 on 3/25/2009 5:19:26 AM , Rating: 4
Get a clue. The Xbox 360 will go down in history as the most technically flawed and poorly engineered console ever.

This would be somewhat forgivable if MS had been more honest about it, instead of making it seem they were doing gamers a favour by 'helping' them 'for free' (with the RROD at least).

They released early to 'beat' Sony, knowing the console would be lucky to last a year, they basically let the gamers absorb the hassle and money loss so they could get one over the competition - but anyone who thinks they 'won' is severely misguided. They won on figures but they lost to gamers who won't be so blind next time they release a console. I don't care who 'wins' ffs, it's just a piece of electronics and I own(ed) one, plus stuff from nintendo and a PS3 (and a PC with MS OS) so I'm not biased. The Xbox360 which I originally LOVED due to games like Dead Rising, Gears and LIVE left me extremely stressed and anxious everytime I went to play a game - until I finally got E74 error - no fix - and MS wanted more cash off me to fix THEIR problem.


By OblivionMage on 3/25/2009 4:49:39 PM , Rating: 2
They extended their warranty - I'm not saying they're perfect, but they did win.

quote:
left me extremely stressed and anxious everytime I went to play a game


I doubt it. (If so, you have a problem (not kidding...))

quote:
I don't care who 'wins' ffs, it's just a piece of electronics and I own(ed) one, plus stuff from nintendo and a PS3 (and a PC with MS OS) so I'm not biased


a. We are all biased, the question to ask is whether or not that bias is reflected in our communicated message.

b. I didn't accuse you of bias, initially, but I will now. You've stated that you own Microsoft products which somehow clears you of bias, yet you go on to contradict that by saying that YOU owned an xbox 360 which was defective.

Sorry, but you've revealed that you have a - considerable - reason to be angry at Microsoft and their Xbox 360 console. So yes, your biased (or, I suppose, your allowing your bias to be reflected in your writings).

quote:
They won on figures but they lost to gamers who won't be so blind next time they release a console


They didn't win on figures, not really.

And yeah, they lost to some customers (including you), but that doesn't mean that they lost any more than any other console has. THE WORLD DOES NOT REVOLVE AROUND YOU.

Oh and:

quote:
The Xbox 360 will go down in history as the most technically flawed and poorly engineered console ever.


I lol'd ^_^


By BansheeX on 3/26/2009 1:29:23 PM , Rating: 2
MS could take a dump in your mouth, and you'd still defend them. Shut up already.


RE: Microsoft needs to get out of Console business
By Sandok on 3/24/2009 5:42:53 PM , Rating: 2
Are you serious? How would that benefit the important people... us, the consumers?

Microsoft doesn't have the most robust console and have lost plenty of money by making this cheap console but the price they paid in repairs was made up EASILY on a few different aspects:

- They were the first to enter the console race and, compared to Sony, are winning the battle with a higher attach rate, more consoles sold, etc.

- Microsoft was able to undercut the PS3 by a significant amount (so much so that Sony had a horrible 2008 fiscal year, especially the games division) and thus, beat the overconfident king of "4D graphics" at their own game. Who benefited... us.

- Customers were outraged but well, when nobody had to pay for getting repairs, most customers didn't care. Opposition customers (ie: people who bought a PS3 or Wii) complain but as long as 360 gamers are happy with their purchase... who cares?

- Finally, they are a software company as you said and thus, have a very simple interface, streamlined system and such. Sure XBL is 50$ a year but then again, Microsoft doesn't charge developers money for using their bandwith does it?

I just think it's quite retarded to say MS should never have joined the console war. Hell, games are what count and I have PLENTY of great games on my Xbox. More so than my PS3 (then again, that 2 year advantage (here in Europe) really did pay off)).


RE: Microsoft needs to get out of Console business
By Belard on 3/25/2009 10:08:07 AM , Rating: 3
HUH?! Sandok says:
quote:
- They were the first to enter the console race and, compared to Sony, are winning the battle with a higher attach rate, more consoles sold, etc.


MS by-passed QC checks to get the xbox360 to market for the christmas season. Good tactic, but it HURT MS with the 33% failure-rates... and low cost hardware of noisy drives. SONY arrived late, due to blue-ray development being behind... but the PS3 helped SONY win the HD-media format war. So in that regards, Sony is "even" somewhat... check out the Blu-Ray section of a store, its bigger than xbox.

And the "attach" rate of the 360 over the PS3 has always been about the same, a year difference of 7~8million consoles. If SONY was 6 months earlier or the 360 was 6 months later(ever worse), they'd be head to head at best.

But, with the HIGH failure rate of 360s, how many of the 29million user base have bought replacement units or MS has sent out replacement units and counted them as "sales"? MS still counts PCs with XP-installed over vista, a "vista sell". 33% of 24million (before the falcon 360) is a failure of about 8 million units! And we see POSTS from 360 users re-buying a 360s with "HDMI", then with upgraded CPU and GPUs... I wonder how many USED 360s are sitting in stores compared to PS3s. We don't see PS3 owners re-buying their consoles... I've set to see a post "I'm buying a revised PS3" here or anywhere!

quote:
Microsoft was able to undercut the PS3 by a significant amount


MS lowered their prices to compete with the PS3. The 360 premo used to be $400. When the elite came out, it was about $450 originally and the Premo went down to about $350. But in reality, the PS3 was actually cheaper for the consumer in the end... always and still is today.

The $500 20GB PS3 was still full featured. To upgrade the standard Xbox360 ($400 360 +$200 for HD-DVD player, $ 100 for wireless network = $700.) And then add the costs of time and money to call MS, get an RMA - ship the unit or buy an extended warranty and/or cooling system.

The next Xbox should be a better design... but sometimes companies don't learn from their stupidity and greed.

While MS has created a different sort of competition for the consoles... it means SONY and Nintendo have to keep on their toes more. ;)


By omnicronx on 3/25/2009 11:49:35 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
And the "attach" rate of the 360 over the PS3 has always been about the same, a year difference of 7~8million consoles. If SONY was 6 months earlier or the 360 was 6 months later(ever worse), they'd be head to head at best.
These variables are already taken into account, which is why when you look around the net you will see a high number for the 360 and a lower number. The higher number is from release, the lower number is compared to the wii/ps3 release date i.e 1 year less sales. Both numbers are higher than the PS3 by a fair margin. Furthermore the difference in consoles sold has absolutely nothing to do with attach rate, it is calculated based on ratios. (i.e total software sales / consoles sold).

They are not head to head, in fact the PS3 is at the bottom of the rankings by a fair margin.
quote:
But, with the HIGH failure rate of 360s, how many of the 29million user base have bought replacement units or MS has sent out replacement units and counted them as "sales"?
Nope they are not counted, the estimated stats you see on sites like VGTchartz etc are based on retail sales. These are not MS released stats.
quote:
But in reality, the PS3 was actually cheaper for the consumer in the end... always and still is today.
In whose reality, yours? Not everyone is going to get wireless, an HD, or an HD-DVD player. In 'reality' the 360 is cheaper by a fair margin the PS3, accessories are irrelevant when it comes to the bottom line. When it comes down to it you can walk out of a store with a working 360 for 200 dollars, its up to the buyer whether or not they want to invest in other upgrades, but in no way or form can you say that everyone is going to do so, or that everyone is looking for features such as BD playback or wireless. Most people buy a console to play games, you (and Sony) seem to be forgetting this.

Most people don't need wireless or a BD player to do this, an HD perhaps, but you can get a referb online for under 50 bucks. Don't get me wrong, I own a PS3, but I am not going to try and justify my purchase by saying its 'cheaper' than the 360. It just happened to fit my needs, that why I bought it.


By nmyron on 3/25/2009 1:58:44 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
In whose reality, yours? Not everyone is going to get wireless, an HD, or an HD-DVD player. In 'reality' the 360 is cheaper by a fair margin the PS3, accessories are irrelevant when it comes to the bottom line. When it comes down to it you can walk out of a store with a working 360 for 200 dollars, its up to the buyer whether or not they want to invest in other upgrades, but in no way or form can you say that everyone is going to do so, or that everyone is looking for features such as BD playback or wireless. Most people buy a console to play games, you (and Sony) seem to be forgetting this.


How many XBOX users don't play online games... I would have to estimate that this is a very, very low percentage, as online gaming is quite the reason that people purchase consoles these days, that, and the quality of games, and etc, etc... The fact of the matter is, the PS3 is more feature rich out of the box, meaning the average consumer can purchase one item, and get every possible interesting feature they may need for a console.

quote:
Most people don't need wireless or a BD player to do this, an HD perhaps, but you can get a referb online for under 50 bucks. Don't get me wrong, I own a PS3, but I am not going to try and justify my purchase by saying its 'cheaper' than the 360. It just happened to fit my needs, that why I bought it.


You talk about getting a refurb drive online for 50 bucks, thats cool, what is it, a 120 GB these days? I just slapped a 500 GB WD Notebook HDD from NewEgg into my PS3 for 99.99... Not to mention that I bought this console as a factory refurb in 2007, it's a 60GB.

So all in all, I bought the console for $350, the HDD for $100, so I spent $450 + tax, and got a premium game system, with BluRay player, media streaming abilities, Wireless internet, and a 500GB storage capacity. Being as that most users purchase their XBOX's, then option them up, the PS3 is definately a better deal. As far as HD video goes, I hope you didn't buy the HD-DVD player... I can't even find HD-DVD's on the shelves anymore... But I have quite a collection of BluRays, and didn't have to go out and shell an additional $500-$700 for a new BluRay player ;)


RE: Microsoft needs to get out of Console business
By Sandok on 3/25/2009 11:50:55 AM , Rating: 2
Microsoft did rush the Xbox360 to the market, I totally agree but when it comes to being a GAME CONSOLE (which is what we're talking about here), it helped them edge out Sony.

Yes, IF Sony had launched their console before it might be the 360 in third place but guess what, they didn't. Microsoft weighed the pros and cons of shipping the console early and it helped them secure a better market position than Sony. IFs and BUTs don't help the actual subject and this is what I am talking about, given that they were the FIRST to enter the race, they were able to beat Sony at their own game.

And since we're talking SKUs (HDMI and whatnot), how many PS3 people post (yes they do... browse around) about buying a 80GB or a 60GB or a 40GB and trading in various different forms of the console to have REAL backwards compatibility or emulated backwards compatibilty or... none at all. Anyways, this is a tiny fraction of the market and I doubt its as big as you make it out to be.

And no, the PS3 is not cheaper and never was cheaper and never will be cheaper. Who says you NEED to buy the HDVD addon, the WiFi addon, the Cam addon, the HDD addon, the Remote addon, etc. If you want to play games, then the cheapest in between the PS3 and 360, out of the box was the 360 and always has been.

Yes, some people might want BR and such and if they did, they would buy a PS3 but those who didn't... the vaste majority... just wanted to play games. Yes it's loud, yes it's fragile and yes the hardware isn't halfway decent but what do you care more about, playing games or justifying your choice of console?

I'm not saying the PS3 is a bad console, far from it, but the Xbox is by NO WAY a bad system to play games on. Quite the opposite, otherwise millions of people wouldn't buy the system. Simple as that.


By BansheeX on 3/26/2009 1:36:14 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
And no, the PS3 is not cheaper and never was cheaper and never will be cheaper. Who says you NEED to buy the HDVD addon, the WiFi addon, the Cam addon, the HDD addon, the Remote addon, etc. If you want to play games


HDD is indeed REQUIRED to play DLC content and download tons of patches. And you forgot to mention netplay fees, which are indeed REQUIRED if you want to play games' online modes. 5 years of Live is $250, so your total cost going to be higher than the PS3 even with the Arcade model, no hard drive, no wireless, and no blu-ray. Shelf price means nothing, cost of ownership means everything, and the PS3 is simply cheaper.


By FaceMaster on 3/25/2009 6:13:54 AM , Rating: 2
Sony isn't primarily a games console manufacturer, either.

To make a console you need to be a very large and established business. In my opinion, Microsoft's Xbox360 has been a great success. The only fault I can find with it is the RROD.

If Microsoft is ripping the customers off so much, then how come there are so many Xbox360's around?


By m0mentary on 3/25/2009 9:47:01 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
This is why Microsoft needs to get out off the Console business...If any other companies have created as faulty a hardware as MS has, they would of gone out of business by now.


don't worry, the market will correct itself ;)


By Sandok on 3/25/2009 11:52:03 AM , Rating: 2
... well IF the market will be correcting itself, it's taking an awful long time.

Or does that mean it ain't correcting itself?


By Screwballl on 3/25/2009 9:59:32 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
This is why Microsoft needs to get out off the Console business.


Agreed.

Look throughout history of consoles sold and NONE of them ever had this serious of a failure rate. I still see some original 8 bit NES consoles still working just as well as they did when they were new, same for Sega Master System, Genesis (and the add-ons), SNES, N64, Dreamcast, Saturn, PS1, PS2, Ataris, Commodore64 and so on...

Microsoft brought their outlook of software (replace every few years) to the hardware front and think that people would be willing to replace it just as they do Windows... only now they realize they are seriously wrong.


By vistaisfine on 3/28/2009 2:09:15 AM , Rating: 2
i dont agree with your assesment. if that was true then we would be looking at xbox 720's on shelves right now. don't get me wrong im not defending the faulty hardware. it is what it is.


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