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Print 55 comment(s) - last by Locutus465.. on Oct 30 at 12:27 AM

Rumbling controller support returns with "Ratchet" PlayStation 3 game

The latest PlayStation 3 firmware is out and about, but users won’t find it available yet on the PlayStation Network. Rather, the most up-to-date system software for Sony’s console is included in the recently released Ratchet and Clank Future: Tools of Destruction, according to Shacknews.

Version 1.94 firmware adds support for rumbling force feedback controllers – a feature that many PlayStation fans and developers have been clamouring for even before the release of the PS3.

While the new force feedback DualShock 3 controllers won’t be available to western gamers until spring 2008, Ratchet and Clank Future: Tools of Destruction along with a v1.94 PS3 are already capable of sending a vibrating signal.

After months of rumors following Sony’s settlement with Immersion, gamers waited for the announcement of a new PlayStation 3 controller that would bring vibration back into their hands. Sony eventually revealed the new DualShock 3 controller at the Tokyo Game Show 2007.

Ratchet and Clank Future: Tools of Destruction won’t be the only game to ship with DualShock 3 support before the release of the actual hardware itself. This year’s other anticipated PlayStation 3 titles, such as Uncharted: Drake’s Fortune and Assassin’s Creed, will ship with rumble code. Current market games, like Resistance: Fall of Man and MotorStorm, will eventually see downloadable patches that add force feedback.

Gamers unwilling to go through the holiday season without directly feeling their games might want to explore importing a DualShock 3 from the land of the rising sun. Japanese gamers will receive their rumbling controllers in November in both black and white colors.


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Install
By Murst on 10/26/2007 1:41:30 PM , Rating: 2
I got the newest firmware when I installed R&C.

Completely unreleated: There seems to be a problem with the R&C install. When I was installing, it told me that I didn't have enough space on the HDD to install the game. I deleted some files, and the install went through just fine, but later I saw on some other sites that other people had the same problem. It appears that some people who have installed the demo before installing the game were getting an error stating that there's not enough room on the HDD. Errors like this should never happen on consoles.

Fortunately, R&C is an extremely fun game (I think its actually better than MP3:Corruption - and that game was excellent).

Anyways... hopefully the DS3 controller will be available soon so we can take advantage of the rumble.




RE: Install
By FITCamaro on 10/26/07, Rating: -1
RE: Install
By Murst on 10/26/2007 1:58:01 PM , Rating: 3
That's actually one of the advantages of the PS3. You can install the game (it doesn't install everything, just the commonly used files) so the load times are virtually non-existent. The only time there's a load time in R&C if when you load a saved game, or when you travel between planets, and that's usually like 3-4 seconds.


RE: Install
By Locutus465 on 10/26/2007 2:11:25 PM , Rating: 2
Does this work anything like the 360 where you just pop in the disc and it will in the background automatically cache whatever it needs to? Or do you actually see an installer screen and wait? I hope it's not the former, that would be very sad on a console.


RE: Install
By SirLucius on 10/26/2007 2:20:32 PM , Rating: 2
The first time you load a game there's an install screen, and the wait time I've found maxes out at around 5-6 minutes, depending on the amount of info being installed. Some games, like Resistance, only install ~130MB worth of data, while others, like skate., install ~2.5GB worth of data.

After that initial install time there's never a need to install data again (unless downloading extra content) and I've found the only real load times are upon the initial launch of a saved game and the occasional load screen between levels. But for some games, like skate, you can roam around the entire world without once encountering a load screen. The only exceptions are when you enter a building or warp to a different location, but that's like a 3-4 second load screen, and really only noticeable because of the pause in music.


RE: Install
By Locutus465 on 10/26/2007 2:28:03 PM , Rating: 2
Eh... I guess that is not horrid, but personally my preference is for no install screens what so ever... Halo 3 handles this by copying data down when you go into the lobby... If you set it up for a level you haven't played before you get a little bit longer of a wait while it caches, subsequently the wait time is reduced to a minimun. Load screens in halo 3 (and 360 games in general in my experinece) are near zero.

For my money I would have been sad to drop the kind of dough you need to spend to get a PS3 and encounger installation screens :( I do realize others won't be as bothered by it as me, but for consoles I want the game to load up immediatly the first time I put in the game disc... Otherwise I'd be playing games on my PC (which I rarely do now, my 19" LCD just doesn't compare to my 50" toshiba HD).


RE: Install
By Murst on 10/26/2007 2:44:59 PM , Rating: 2
I don't mind the install screen for a game, as usually its pretty quick and you only need to do it once.

The thing I hate doing is installing the firmware updates. Those take significantly longer. And games won't play on older firmware if they're packaged in with newer firmware, so you have to install it.

This isn't a problem with just the PS3, though. The same applies to the Wii. I don't own an XBox, so I'm not sure if firmware upgrades are required there as well.


RE: Install
By Locutus465 on 10/26/2007 2:49:42 PM , Rating: 2
You get firmware updates with the 360... I don't think I've done a full system update yet, but I have done application specific updates which are context activated (i.e. while launching the application which requires an update). I have found these to generally be very quick, the biggest update thus far being an update to HD-DVD playback which took approx 2min to download and install and required a reboot of the 360 before playback could resume (automatic).

My experience with the wii was similar to yours... *slooow* to download, but at least it didn't download then tack on install time as far as I could see, seemed to almost stream the update.


RE: Install
By Murst on 10/26/2007 2:54:13 PM , Rating: 2
From what I can remmeber (I haven't updated the Wii in a long time), it seems like the PS3 firmware installs take much longer than the Wii.

Downloads, on the other hand, take forever on the Wii, and the PS3 is very fast.

However, my previous posts were referring to installs only, as I was talking about games which come with the firmware update on the disc, so there is no need to download.


RE: Install
By Locutus465 on 10/26/2007 4:23:50 PM , Rating: 2
Well, most vista updates may be downloaded on to a PC and burnt to CD then installed, or a CD may be ordered... But if you're hooked into XBL the best option is to just use the auto-updater... I guess Sony takes the extra step of having updates installed on game disks so you get it when you run the game, with MS everything is done via XBL which works very well as far as I'm conserned (and makes sense because patches realeased after the game disc is already in stores will have to be distributed via internet anyway).


RE: Install
By Murst on 10/26/2007 5:00:21 PM , Rating: 3
So what do you do if a game requires an update to the firmware but you don't have your XBox hooked up to the internet? Is internet hookup a requirement for the 360?

Or do the XBox games not require a firmware update like the PS3 and Wii games do?


RE: Install
By Locutus465 on 10/30/2007 12:27:24 AM , Rating: 2
Late response, was on vacation... However to belatedly answer your questions... Microsoft offers to mail you an update CD for free (if you can wait), or the .ISO's are available only for you to download and burn to CD, the image will automatically launch the update app. Both of these options are less convinent than having the x-box hooked up online (like mine is), but you can get the updates off of XBL if you absolutly don't want (or can't have) your x-box online.


RE: Install
By Bioniccrackmonk on 10/26/2007 2:52:33 PM , Rating: 2
Whenever a new version is available it is usually required to download it and install it. The one thing all the companies got right with this is that it only downloads the update you need instead of the whole file which is nice IMO.


RE: Install
By Murst on 10/26/2007 2:55:40 PM , Rating: 2
Yeah, Sony messed up something here I think... every time I update the firmware, I get the feeling that its installing it from scratch. Of course, I have nothing to back that up except for long install times.


RE: Install
By Bioniccrackmonk on 10/26/2007 2:54:53 PM , Rating: 3
I own a PS3 and my roommate owns a 360, we play both a lot and I have not noticed a load/install screen on the PS3 that was out of line w/ what the 360 does. Both seem to be pretty fair in regards to putting in a disk the first time and then playing it at random intervals.


RE: Install
By SirLucius on 10/26/2007 2:57:25 PM , Rating: 2
I agree with Murst, it's really not that bad. The longest initial install time I've experienced was with either Ghost Recon 2 or Heavenly Sword (can't remember right now), but I know it took no longer than 6 minutes for me to be playing. But for most games the install screen was done and the game was loading before I even realized that there was an install screen. It's not really fair to compare PS3 install times to PC install times though. The PS3 takes a fraction of the amount of time it takes to install a PC game, and after that, it loads faster than most PC games IMO.

I guess it evens out in the end. With the 360 you experience slightly longer load times the first time you play a level. With the PS3, it just gets rid of those extra bits of time right up front so you can dive right into the game.


RE: Install
By BZDTemp on 10/27/2007 4:53:27 PM , Rating: 2
360 load times near zero - are you kidding!

Try a game like PGR3 or PGR4 or Forza2 and you will find yourself waiting for loading all the time. When starting a race you wait for the tracks and stuff to be loaded which is sort of expected but crash in the first corner and select to restart the race and you wait for loading again. You will even find yourself waiting due to loading while moving around in the game menues!

I have both the 360 and the PS3 and if you find 360 load times near zero you will find the PS3 is actually a time machine in comparison :-)


RE: Install
By SavagePotato on 10/26/2007 3:14:48 PM , Rating: 3
It's absolutely amazing the things people will bitch about. If it was the 360 that had a small hard drive install per game people would think it was revolutionary. Just because it's the ps3 the fanboys have to come out and make out like it's the work of the antichrist or something.

Grow up for god's sake kiddies.


RE: Install
By FITCamaro on 10/26/2007 4:14:50 PM , Rating: 1
No I don't want to see "Installing game...please wait...." on any console. That's part of the beauty of consoles.

I've got no problem with data being cached on a hard drive, but it should be deleted and overwritten once a new game is popped in the drive. This is what the original Xbox did and what the 360 will do once developers start supporting the hard drive (since Microsoft is letting them now).

You shouldn't ever get a message on a console saying that you don't have enough hard drive space to install a game.


RE: Install
By SavagePotato on 10/26/2007 4:20:46 PM , Rating: 2
Then have fun waiting for your long load times from disc. Personally ill gladly take a 6 minute install time to have fast level transitions.

That doesn't make it sad, it makes you a whiny baby thats looking for yet another reason to bash sony.


RE: Install
By Locutus465 on 10/26/2007 4:29:13 PM , Rating: 3
X-box 360 load times are near zero... Data is also cached on the 360, the difference is that on the 360 you don't sit around waiting for any amount of time while a game is installed on the console. This is not to say there are no delays durring the cacheing process at all, on occation you'll see a "please wait while content is loaded", generally it won't be on screen for very long. The only game where it's noticable at all is halo 3 while in the lobby. once you're out of the lobby there are no load times.


RE: Install
By SavagePotato on 10/26/2007 4:40:36 PM , Rating: 2
I guess I can see why xbox owners are so delicate about their hard drive space. Since Microsoft has from the start gripped x-box owners by the balls for HD space. I remember the grand old suggestion from Microsoft that if the dinky 20gb wasn't enough they should just buy another one, at 100 bucks plus. The 120 gig elite is all fine and good but it's still a shame your not allowed to upgrade it without voiding everything about your console.

Eventually when I feel it's needed I'll gladly pop a bigger drive of my choice in my ps3. I think they make up to 300 gig 2.5s right now. So install space is meaningless to me in that respect.


RE: Install
By Locutus465 on 10/26/2007 4:46:52 PM , Rating: 2
Wow... I can see where this conversation is going... So I guess I'll just say beleive whatever you want...


RE: Install
By SavagePotato on 10/26/2007 4:55:07 PM , Rating: 2
Your talking about a matter of personal preference. In that respect people can believe whatever they want. I like pc like features on a console, sue me if you don't agree I guess.

It's fine if you don't, however making out like it is a horrible thing is foolish. It's a trade off of a one time load time versus a constantly recurring cache process. The way some people seem to have reacted to that you would think it was a crime against humanity. What I think personally is the idea of anything pc-like on a console is just a little to much for some people to handle.

I only wish I could install the whole game and didn't have to put the disc in to play.


RE: Install
By Locutus465 on 10/26/2007 4:59:04 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Eh... I guess that is not horrid, but personally my preference is for no install screens what so ever...


Yes, I was really trying to villinize sony :P


RE: Install
By SirLucius on 10/26/2007 4:58:18 PM , Rating: 2
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the cached data is emptied every time you stop playing and eject a game, right? The only advantage I see the PS3 having here is that it installs once and you're done. With the 360 it seems like you'll always encounter slightly longer load times the first time you load a game. That being said, both systems have negligible load times.

And note that I said 6 minutes max. Most games take between 1-3 minutes to install. If you really can't wait an extra minute or two to play a game, then I guess I don't know what to say to you.

But in all honesty this argument is silly. Even with the initial install the PS3 loads just as, if not more quickly, than the 360. In the end it really depends on the game, although I haven't done any direct comparisons of games to say which system is faster. I'd be willing to bet they're either the same or 1-2 seconds apart either way.


RE: Install
By BZDTemp on 10/28/2007 7:49:31 AM , Rating: 2
X-box 360 load times are near zero...

That's a downright lie!

Some games even have you wait for loading while moving round in the menu and PGR3/PGR4/Forza2 has you waiting for loading before each race AND also if you choose to restart a race!


RE: Install
By afkrotch on 10/28/2007 10:51:39 PM , Rating: 2
Out of all this, why hasn't anyone mentioned the fact that you don't need to install the game. You are given that option, but you don't have to.

I personally install any game that allows it to, as I'd like to have shorter load times. I hate waiting for load times, be it my PS3 or my Xbox 360.

I do wish my Xbox 360 had that ability, but at the same time, I don't want to spend over $100 on a measily little 120 gig drive, when the same amount nets me a 250 gig for my PS3.


RE: Install
By Locutus465 on 10/26/2007 4:26:16 PM , Rating: 2
Ummm, nope for my money I would be just as annoyed if the 360 did it, but it doesn't. Personally I think microsoft made a better choice by hiding the game cacheing... BTW, I did do my best to carefully write my posts to try and not rag on sony while still expressing my POV that hidden cacheing works better for me.


RE: Install
By SavagePotato on 10/26/2007 4:33:14 PM , Rating: 2
Well an install time works better for me. However that doesn't mean I would scream bloody murder and call it ridiculous that the x-box uses some caching scheme instead.

As far as I'm concerned pc features like keyboard and mouse support in UT3 and hard drive installs are very welcome. If you don't like it have fun with your 360 and don't have the nerve to bash a perfectly good feature, that people find to be a benefit.


RE: Install
By ani4ani on 10/26/2007 5:07:04 PM , Rating: 2
Isn't it really hidden on the 360 Core, i.e. you would hardly know it couldn't happen!


RE: Install
By Murst on 10/26/2007 5:13:57 PM , Rating: 2
Yes, we all know the Core does not have a HDD. Yes, it limits the user's experience with the console... But do people have to bring it up in every thread?

At least MS offers the ability to have caching (and other features) if you pay more. Sony also has extra features if you pay more.

I'd be so nice if people focused on the positives of consoles, instead of picking a feature (or lack of) in a particular model.


RE: Install
By SavagePotato on 10/26/2007 5:35:42 PM , Rating: 3
Sony doesn't really do the add ons and extras to the extent Microsoft does.

At least until the 40gb ps3 there was one sku for the longest time in north America. It's just the disadvantage that goes with the territory for the sony's and microsoft's in providing very expensive units. Having to strip them down to sell lower cost versions and actually sell consoles.

Microsoft really has overdone it in my eyes. They have changed the 360 around so much so far I could easily see being a bit upset being stuck with one of the early consoles.

A friend is in that boat, he has the old red ring prone, no hdmi console and now here come all these tantalizing new additions like the elite, and the halo edition, with hdmi, and quieter operation due to cooler cpus, (not to mention survivability) But it doesn't stop there, theres talk of the 65nm shrink to the video next summer. It's a never ending cycle of your product being eclipsed by a newer better sku. Thats a very negative thing in my opinion.


RE: Install
By RandallMoore on 10/29/2007 12:30:34 PM , Rating: 2
You completely read my mind on this one. I can not agree more. For all of you that do not own a PS3, the install times are very quick and painless. Example - I put in Ratchet and Clank: Future. The firmware upgrade took about 4-5 mins. The game content install took about 2-3 mins. After that, I can insert the disk, and start playing in literally 5 seconds. That is an entire level. If people are going to complain about that, then there is no wonder that Sony is having a hard time deciding what designs they should implement. I say Sony is doing a DAMN good job. When the real games start to come out, I will feel even more relieved that I went with a PS3.


RE: Install
By ViperROhb34 on 10/28/2007 12:19:00 PM , Rating: 2
There isn't much load time on the 360, especially more so with the newer DVD drives they are using now.

You call it an advantage witht he PS3 - when in reality its just a wash - the bluray drive reads regular DVD's much slower, so if it didnt 'install' the files it would be much slower.. In fact that was a problem without the install of files.. load times ont he PS3 were awful.


RE: Install
By SirLucius on 10/28/2007 1:45:51 PM , Rating: 2
That's a load of bunk. All PS3 games are on Blu-Ray disc, so even if it doesn't load regular DVD's as fast, that doesn't apply to PS3 games in the least. As for PS2 games, I've yet to experience longer load times when playing them on a PS3 over a PS2. They are load just as fast or faster on the PS3, but are in no way slower.

And yes, if the PS3 didn't install files it would load games much slower, just like if you didn't install games on your PC they would load much slower. What's the point here? I've yet to encounter a game that gives you the option to not install to the hard drive. The 8 PS3 games I own all require some data to be installed. It's irrelevant how quickly games load if you don't install files because you have to install the files to run the games.


RE: Install
By afkrotch on 10/29/2007 12:29:09 AM , Rating: 2
A regular PS2 reads dvds at 4x, while the PS3 has a read speed of 8x. So no, game loading PS2 games on the PS3 is not slower than an actual PS2. It's actually faster.

For game loading, yes, the Xbox 360 is faster. The 2x Blu-ray drive is capable of 72 Mbps, while the Xbox 360s 12x DVD-ROM is capable of 66-132 Mbps.

Game developers try to negate this problem by allowing users to install the games or creating duplicate data on the disc. Personally, I'm fine with being able to install the game on the hdd. I try out my games to see whether I like it or not, before I install it on the hdd.


Immersive Game Play?
By mikefarinha on 10/26/2007 1:30:12 PM , Rating: 5
I've never felt that rumbling controllers add *that* much immersion into games.




RE: Immersive Game Play?
By Chris Peredun on 10/26/2007 1:34:19 PM , Rating: 2
I have two words and a number for you:

Silent Hill 2.


RE: Immersive Game Play?
By kileil on 10/26/2007 1:37:07 PM , Rating: 4
Agreed. Whenever Manhunt 2 comes out I plan to hire hobos to beat me with whiffle bats on cue.


RE: Immersive Game Play?
By aquraishi on 10/26/2007 1:43:54 PM , Rating: 3
I don't know if that was meant as a pun but it is a doozy! Really good! I'm in admiration.


RE: Immersive Game Play?
By UppityMatt on 10/26/2007 1:58:11 PM , Rating: 2
I disagree, my biggest complaint on the PS3 is the light weight controller, and lack of rumble. I think it really helps when you are being shot or take a car off a road to add realism. Thats really my only complaint with the PS3. And remember this is my opinion only.


RE: Immersive Game Play?
By peritusONE on 10/26/2007 2:07:23 PM , Rating: 2
Agreed, rumble has never done that much for me either. The only games that I've ever really noticed it being well done is the Metal Gear Solid games and the Gran Turismo series. I have it turned off on my 360 controller.


RE: Immersive Game Play?
By FITCamaro on 10/26/2007 4:19:19 PM , Rating: 2
Well for the most part, you're right its not useful. But yeah in driving games it is so you know when you're pushing the car too hard or something. Force feedback for a gun firing is kind of useless. I also hate it when they make the controller turn into a vibrator during cut scenes.

Vibration should indicate something to you. Not just be there for the hell of it. Like in FFXI on the PS2 when fishing, the controller vibrated to tell you when you had a fish on the line (at least until the fishing revamp). Excellent use of it.

Vibrating because I get hit = useless. I know I got hit. I saw it happen.


RE: Immersive Game Play?
By mmntech on 10/27/2007 10:46:00 AM , Rating: 2
After playing PC games for years with the keyboard and mouse, rumble is not something you miss. I think if you include force feedback with the Wii controller, then it makes more sense but not with a static system.

On the topic of firmware, I wonder what else this will add besides DualShock 3 support. One of the major disappointments I had with the PS3 is lack of some features the PSP has. The PSP has RSS2.0 and better codec support than the PS3, which is ironic because the PS3 is the newer system.


A step backwards
By bl4ckfl4g on 10/26/2007 1:50:26 PM , Rating: 3
Come on...rumble is so last gen.




RE: A step backwards
By sliderule on 10/26/2007 2:10:51 PM , Rating: 3
And having no rumble is a step forwards?


RE: A step backwards
By mikefarinha on 10/26/2007 2:41:26 PM , Rating: 3
I agree, it should have never been removed in the first place.


RE: A step backwards
By softwiz on 10/26/2007 5:17:56 PM , Rating: 2
I going to go out on a limb an say the OP was being sarcastic / funny.

Apparently, you must have missed Sony's Phil Harrison actually claiming that it was "last gen" feature only to add it back since they're finally out of hot water with Immersion.


RE: A step backwards
By Locutus465 on 10/26/2007 2:13:40 PM , Rating: 2
I wish I could vote and post... You deserve to be rated up!


PS2 Compatibility?
By mrbios on 10/26/2007 2:18:57 PM , Rating: 2
I don't necessarily care, but just out of curiousity, will the re-addition of rumble support fix the problems of PS2 game compatibility? I know that even with the hardware compatibility, some games still wouldn't work, due to the lack of rumble support.




RE: PS2 Compatibility?
By thebaka07 on 10/26/2007 9:43:57 PM , Rating: 2
I know Sony just settled it with Immersion but still, almost ALL fans who bought the PS3 swored that rumble is not a a must in next gen console, and some even said the turn it off if they can last gen on their prefered console of choice.

Why did Sony even bother to include it after all this time, their fans don't need it, ps3 gamers don't need it, they should use the money for things other than last gen feature as 'rumble'.


RE: PS2 Compatibility?
By ViperROhb34 on 10/28/2007 12:25:16 PM , Rating: 2
One reason most Sony Fans sower they didnt need it is because that would be saying this thing isnt all that good without it and when you buy a 600 dollar console as it was you need to justify every reason in your mind.

Fact is, before rumble there was nothing.. so having nothing AGAIN is not a step forwards, its a step backwards.

Rumble definately immerses you in the game deeper.. I loved PS2.. Im not impressed with PS3


RE: PS2 Compatibility?
By afkrotch on 10/29/2007 12:38:58 AM , Rating: 2
I have a PS2, PS3, Xbox 360, and PC. I don't have rumble with any of them. If they have the ability, I turned it off.

It's more annoying to me. I had to disable it on Xbox 360, cause sometimes it'd glitch out and have a non-stop rumbling fit. I'd have to reboot to stop it, as simply exiting the game didn't.

Also when I play a game, I tend to have the controller sitting on my belly, with me laying back. The rumble just annoyed, more than immersed.


Blu Ray Drive
By mastamusicdj on 10/29/2007 6:25:12 PM , Rating: 2
Does anyone know how the Blu Ray Drive in the PS3 is connected to the motherboard, is it a variation of SATA or IDE? Also, has anyone tried to get the drive running on a windows machine?




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