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In Microsoft's latest jab at Apple a fashionable computer shopper realize she just "isn't cool" enough for Apple's expensive products.   (Source: Microsoft)

Instead she finds an HP 17" notebook with Windows Vista for $699.99.  (Source: Microsoft)

She also is able to buy a printer, and still have $100 of the $1,000 left. She happily pockets the difference  (Source: Microsoft)
Latest Microsoft ad may be its strongest attack on Apple yet

Microsoft founder Bill Gates once famously said that he "didn't get" Apple's attack ads on Microsoft.  After all, both companies trying to do the same thing -- create ultra-functional OS systems that met all the users’ needs.  Indeed, for a long time Microsoft was dumbfounded as to how to combat Apple campaign which was based largely on exaggeration, vague accusations, and unfounded insults.

Microsoft finally announced that it would be fighting back with a $300M USD advertising campaign.  For the first round it recruited Jerry Seinfeld, only to see the expensive commercials meet with mixed reviews.  From a public reaction standpoint, the successor to those commercials, the "I'm a PC" commercials were much more effective, appealing to many who were sick of Apple's campaign of PC abuse.

Now Microsoft has come up with perhaps its cleverest barb yet -- pointing out how much cheaper PCs are than Macs for the same hardware

The ad gurus at Crispin Porter + Boguksy, who Microsoft has hired to do the ads, contacted computer shoppers in Los Angeles area through Craigslist and other sites.  Posing as market researchers they offered people $700 to $2,000 to buy a new computer, not telling the people that they were with Microsoft according to the Wall Street Journal.  The customers were motivated to bargain hunt as they were told they could keep the rest of the money after the computer purchase.

The first commercial features a woman named Lauren who was given $1,000.  She wanted to get a 17-inch screen and a comfortable keyboard.  She went to the Apple store only to leave disappointed as their cheapest computer (the $999 MacBook) only had a 13-inch screen and featured a narrow keyboard.

"I’m just not cool enough to be a Mac person," the fashionable Californian sarcastically remarks as driving off.

She ends up at Best Buy instead, where she finds a HP Pavilion notebook with a 17-inch screen that's $699.99 before tax.  She's able to get the computer and a printer for $900, pocketing the extra $100.  At the end of the commercial, she states, "I’m a PC, and I got just what I wanted."

Microsoft began airing the programs last night during the popular NCAA men's basketball tournament, broadcast on CBS.  The ads mark the latest chapter in a series of jabs made by Microsoft at Apple over price.  Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer recently remarked that Apple customers were paying $500 more than PC customers "for a logo."

Brad Brooks, corporate vice president for Windows consumer product marketing at Microsoft, says that he "swears on a stack of Bibles" that the contracted ad agency didn't steer customers towards PCs -- they were simply the natural choice as they were cheaper and more full-featured.  He states, "Value is on the top of everybody’s mind these days with the economic situation we’re in."

Indeed, Apple's sales of its pricey desktops and laptops dropped in February, falling 16 percent, while PCs continued to post better sales, thanks to ultra-cheap netbook sales.  Apple is faced with the challenge of wooing the cash-strapped consumer -- it has a couple of entries below $1,000 -- the Mac Mini desktop and the MacBook -- but most of its computers are much more.  For example, the only computer it announced at MacWorld -- the new 17" MacBook Pro starts at a cool $2,799.  



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The Empire Strikes Back
By TA152H on 3/27/2009 10:37:01 AM , Rating: 4
I'm not a big fan of Microsoft, but for too long they let Apple take shots with their MacIntoys, as we used to call them, without responding.

About two years ago, I was contemplating a job which required I get a Mac and support software on it. I went out, priced them, and was aghast at the cost. It's really very dramatic. Needless to say, I didn't want this low quality junk in the first place (Not that this is exclusive to Apple, but you can't duplicate the quality of something you build yourself), but then the price combined with that made me really angry. Obviously, they were selling mostly sizzle instead of the steak, and it was so obvious now because all they were, were PCs in drag. When they were POWER based, it was harder to say, but they are so obvious about it now.

So, I'm glad Microsoft is finally taking them on. I'm sure some people will prefer the Mac OS, but, I think most buy on the image, and don't fully realize they are essentially the same machines - except for a $500 name plate.




RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By retrospooty on 3/27/2009 10:41:33 AM , Rating: 5
And irritating defensive reply from Pirks in 3... 2... 1...

=)


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Whaaambulance on 3/27/2009 11:24:37 AM , Rating: 3
Oh god.... you just jinxed us Spoot....


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By retrospooty on 3/27/2009 11:31:29 AM , Rating: 2
hee hee


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Raidin on 3/27/2009 12:42:55 PM , Rating: 1
Just remember, where there's a Pirks, there's a FITCamaro.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Whaaambulance on 3/27/2009 12:55:43 PM , Rating: 5
To reiterate from a previous post, I am going to sum up the entire contents of Pirks posts into this condensed version to save space and save people the headache of trying to read through all of Pirks useless comments:

------------------------------------------------- -------

Knowledgeabe User: This was a very useful news article, I like it for this reason.

Pirks: I disagree with your statement. Why do I disagree with it? Because it doesn't matter what your opinion is, my opinion is the correct one. It doesn't matter if I back my opinion up with facts or not, yours is wrong.

Knowledgeable User: But I provided links backing up my statements with facts.

Pirks: Hahahhaha your such an idiot :))) ~Lolz!!*** Everyone here know that your comments mean nothing and that everyone should only pay attention to mine.

Knowledgeable User: What's wrong with you dude?

Pirks: Whats wrong with YOU LOL :)))) hheheh my little KnowledgeableUserclown :))))))))

Knowledgeable User: Anyways, let's get back on topic. I think <insert well thought out comment regarding this topic of the articel>.

Pirks: <Insert long-winded speech about how I know more than you, and regardless of facts, my opinion > all.>

Knowledgeable User: Wait a minute... what do cars have to do with what we were talking about?

Knowledgeable User: Sigh... I give up...

Pirks: Wooohooo I win at the interwebs again!! :)))))) LOLZ! :P


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By FITCamaro on 3/27/2009 1:40:28 PM , Rating: 4
Why did this get rated down? I thought it was pretty funny.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Whaaambulance on 3/27/2009 1:50:04 PM , Rating: 2
Guess it was posted too late. It got a 5 rating in the original article LOL. Guess this group isn't as familiar with Pirks as the other.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By michael2k on 3/27/2009 5:09:03 PM , Rating: 2
I thought everyone knew Pirks.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By mindless1 on 3/27/2009 11:10:54 PM , Rating: 5
It's because the only thing worse than trolling is the same trolling plus preemptive retribution trolling too, over and over again.

Grow up kids.


By lexluthermiester on 3/28/2009 3:58:18 PM , Rating: 2
Loving the irony!! Classic, just classic...


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By GodisanAtheist on 3/27/2009 2:47:30 PM , Rating: 2
*Thumbs up* but you forgot the shoehorned car analogy...


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By afkrotch on 3/30/2009 12:18:53 PM , Rating: 1
Hmm....

Mac is like a lambo and a PC is like a Civic. Everyone wants the Lambo, but can only afford a Civic.

Was that good enough there? Lol. I'll stick with my PCs.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Targon on 4/2/2009 8:47:01 AM , Rating: 2
Except that Mac isn't any better than the PC, except for the fact it takes a bit less time to do the initial setup on a Mac. They run a MacOS X logo around while the OS does it's initial stuff behind the scenes, where with XP and Vista, you sit there with some useless "please wait" while that is going on.

The competition is more like Ford vs. GM, where there are differences, but in the end, people will pick which one THEY prefer.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By v3rt1g0 on 3/27/2009 2:53:23 PM , Rating: 3
That impersonation was a little too good. Wow.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By marvdmartian on 3/27/2009 3:18:11 PM , Rating: 2
+1 rep to total of 6 for you, Whaaambulance. :)


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 3/30/09, Rating: -1
RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Whaaambulance on 3/31/2009 11:53:29 AM , Rating: 4
Look at you Pirks, talking about me 4 days after I haven't even been back to this thread. And you are talking about ME obsessed with you? LOL!

I understand you are probably upset that the majority of the people on here know that you are a douchebag and I am 100% correct about you and everything else I post here. Ratings prove all. Your non-existent logic doesn't matter.

Now it's time for you to get off my nuts and head over to a new thread.

"LOLLLzzzzz!!! :P~~~~~~

-Pirks"


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 3/31/09, Rating: -1
RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Whaaambulance on 3/31/2009 3:38:06 PM , Rating: 2
LOOK EVERYONE!! YOU ARE ALL "A BUNCH OF STUPID MORONS INCAPABLE OF UNDERSTANDING PIRKS SIMPLE AND STRAIGHTFORWARD TECHNICAL ARGUMENTS"!!!!

Damn, I guess we should all just stop posting here because Pirks is the end-all, be-all of logical thinking... DAMN LET ME GO CUT MY HEAD OFF RIGHT NOW... I DONT DESERVE TO LIVE ON THE SAME PLANET AS THIS FUCKING GENIUS THAT EVERYONE ON THESE FORUMS RESPECTS SO MUCH!!! OMFG WTF BBQ!!!!!!!


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 3/31/09, Rating: 0
RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Whaaambulance on 4/1/09, Rating: 0
RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 4/1/09, Rating: -1
RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 4/1/09, Rating: 0
RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Whaaambulance on 4/1/2009 12:49:22 PM , Rating: 2
Awww you are so cute, Pirks. Look at you, nibbling on my nuts like a cute little Squirrel... awwww.

I feel so honored and loved by your gesture of caring. My nuts also thank you for the warm and cozy home you have given them in your mouth.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 4/1/09, Rating: 0
RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Whaaambulance on 4/1/2009 1:08:25 PM , Rating: 3
The difference between that article and your postings, is that unlike yourself, they look at the issue subjectively. They don't litter it with personal agenda, like yourself. And if you read back to any of my posts, I don't slam Apple, I slam zealots like yourself. I use Apple products, and I know the value they hold and know the benefits they have.

Apparently you didn't read through the entire article.

The retarded argument you keep trying to make is that somehow Apple hardware is better than PC hardware. That is not the case in any regard. Apple rolls everything up into an easy to use, and stable platform and wrapping it up in a pretty package. That is what you are paying for. Nothing more, nothing less.

quote:
Q. You’re going to try and convince us that Lauren should have bought the MacBook Pro, aren’t you?

A. No, no, no! She said she wanted a fast notebook with a 17-inch screen for under a grand. There are plenty of Windows machines that fit the bill, and no Mac that comes close. You can quibble with whether the HP Pavilion she bought was her best option, but unless you want to tell Lauren that she should settle for a 13-inch display instead of a 17-inch one, she unquestionably made the right decision in buying a Windows computer. There are tons of reasonable Windows laptops for under $1000, but only one Apple notebook in that range at all–the most basic MacBook.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 4/1/09, Rating: -1
RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Whaaambulance on 4/1/2009 1:17:07 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
I guess we can conclude our discussions on that note


Discussions don't happen with you, Pirks. I mean, I could seriously try to sit here and have a normal debate with you, but it quickly turns into a dirt-flinging contest because you aren't a subjective poster. If you look at any of my posts not directed at you, I speak subjectively and on target.

I don't think it is possible to have a normal conversation with you. You have some sort of demented issue with always trying to win an argument, even if you are proven wrong.

Here is a challenge to you:

Prove to this forum that you can carry on a reasonable discussion without pushing your own one-sided view to everything. If you can do that, I am sure everyone here might actually respect you. Because whether or not you think they are "Wintards" or "Idiots", matters not. They are the majority and they think you are a tool. Prove them wrong.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 4/1/09, Rating: 0
RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Whaaambulance on 4/1/2009 1:37:45 PM , Rating: 3
Thanks for proving my point, again.

I was extending an offer in sincerity, and you revert to name-calling and belittling.

This forum knows you and will always rate you down not because they are "Wintards", but because they are appropriately and accurately rating you based on your behavior. I am sure you will respond to this with something having to do with clowns or ":)))))". Be my guest. You are the king of your self-made hill.

In your world, you are right about everything, and nobody elses opinions matter. Is it really enjoyable to only count your opinion as the right one? Do you not see the value in respecting other peoples views? It must be lonely on your hill.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Whaaambulance on 4/1/2009 1:58:52 PM , Rating: 1
I think it is time to move on to another discussion. I don't think anyone else is reading this discussion other than us. I would like to see you post in something other than a "mac vs pc". That would be interesting.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 4/1/2009 3:14:52 PM , Rating: 1
In my world, clown, I'm getting downrated without counter arguments. People just don't like my posts because truth hurts their little rat brains living in their own little delusional worlds. And because it's truth they can't say anything reasonable against it.

Look at this one for example: http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=14642...

If you research what Unity3D is and what I said and WHEN I said this - you will find that I stated absolute hard _fact_. The Real One. Not a lie and not my own personal delusion. There is no way I could have lied on that one, even a dumb clown like you can see it for yourself.

Not that this will help ya sick downrating idiots :) I just enjoy posting truth here, like that post about Unity3D above, and then seeing torrent of cowards trying to hide from that truth by downrating me. You're so pathetic, Mr. Community Service Clown and your clones in this forum :))) Ha Ha Ha.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 4/1/2009 3:22:09 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
That would be interesting
Yeah, I've seen you crapping a lot in the CryENGINE 2 thread. Was NOT interesting at all. Your usual stink and personal attacks. Like you ever gonna change, cheapo clown :)))


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By omnicronx on 4/1/2009 4:45:36 PM , Rating: 2
I think both of you need to simmer down...

Pirks: you get rated down because none of your posts are 'worth reading'. Why would someone reply to something that was not worth reading in the first place

Wambulance: You are just enabling him, don't poke the bear..


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Whaaambulance on 4/1/2009 5:10:13 PM , Rating: 2
Omni, you will notice in quite a few posts I have attempted to move on, but this retard just keeps on going. It's definitely like watching the special olympics...

Maybe this thread might hit 500 posts! :P


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 4/1/2009 5:15:33 PM , Rating: 2
Since when did the truth become not worth reading?


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Whaaambulance on 4/1/2009 5:21:28 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Since when did the truth become not worth reading?


Clearly the truth and your opinion are one in the same.

You lack the ability to tactfully apply your opinions in this forum, therefore people disregard it and downrate you so they don't have to see your posts in the future.

Try a new approach. You should care about opinions if you are posting here. Afterall, isn't that the purpose of a forum? To share information? It isn't to push your own opinions and not respect others. So far, that is all you have done. You don't bring any value to a discussion. That is Omni's point.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 4/1/2009 5:41:46 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
the truth and your opinion are one in the same
Where do you see OPINION in this post: http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=14642...

I just stated the FACT about the software called Unity3D in there.

Are you trying to lie to me again? Trying to pass this FACT as my OPINION?

You're sooo dumb Whaaa, that's beyond anything I've seen here, even from your potatotwin :))
quote:
You lack the ability to tactfully apply your opinions in this forum
Do you think it's better to hide the truth than to post it here? Why? What would have happened if I hadn't posted the FACT about Unity3D? Would this forum be a better place? Why?


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 4/1/2009 5:22:05 PM , Rating: 1
Also in addition to my question about "truth not worth reading" above, did you notice, omni, how carefully Whaaaclown avoided this post of mine? -> http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=14691...

Must be a good way to shut his dirty hole in future threads :))


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Whaaambulance on 4/1/2009 5:25:29 PM , Rating: 2
Pirks... you are such a moron .. seriously. You are so ignorant it is astounding. Just because I don't respond to every piece of your incoherent babble, doesn't mean you have won anything.

This posts sums up every thread you have ever posted in. If I could make a poll for this, im sure 99.9% of all DT readers would agree.

http://www.dailytech.com/Article.aspx?newsid=14691...


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Whaaambulance on 4/1/2009 5:28:11 PM , Rating: 2
Commenting system here blows balls BTW...

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=14691...


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 4/1/2009 5:34:36 PM , Rating: 1
I see, posting links to your mindless Whaaagarbage again :)

Now, do you have something to say about the fact that I've been downrated for saying the truth in this post: http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=14642...


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Targon on 4/2/2009 8:58:37 AM , Rating: 2
Pirks,
What you miss is that since there are no lower cost Apple computers, and Apple will not allow clones, you end up with ONLY the high-cost, high-markup computers from Apple.

On the PC side, you can get a $500 computer, or you can get the same machine with extra features for more money. Most people do NOT need a finger print scanner on a laptop, and on the PC side, people have the option. At the same time, on a high-end Windows based laptop, you can look around for a computer with the same specs as the "premium" systems but at lower costs. Cyberpowerpc.com is a perfect example that you CAN get a computer that competes well with an Alienware for a much lower price on the PC side, but in the MacOS world, there are no options.

So, if you want to say that there are horribly marked up computers in the Windows world, you are right, but not EVERY computer in the Windows world is marked up like that. If you want to build your own computer that is just as fast as an expensive name-brand computer on the Windows side, you also have that option, but with MacOS, Apple locks the OS so you need to hack it to put it on a computer you build yourself.

Laptops are non-standard devices overall, so the option to build your own is virtually non-existent. But, there are a number of them that will at least allow SOME customization and they still cost less than what you get from Apple. If you compare low-end Mac to a comparable PC, the PC will be quite a bit cheaper, even with the same hardware specs.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 4/2/2009 12:12:12 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
there are no lower cost Apple computers
Yeah, I know there are brands that don't offer cheap goods. Sony, Apple, Lexus and such. Doesn't make sense to bash them anyway. They just serve their niche markets, what's so bad about that?
quote:
If you compare low-end Mac to a comparable PC, the PC will be quite a bit cheaper, even with the same hardware specs.
Your hardware specs never include case, cooling system and other pieces of hardware you'd like to sweep under the carpet to avoid noticing that they are quite different between Macs and PCs.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Whaaambulance on 4/2/2009 1:00:33 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Your hardware specs never include case, cooling system and other pieces of hardware you'd like to sweep under the carpet to avoid noticing that they are quite different between Macs and PCs


This argument is invalid for a couple of reasons. Number one, is that you aren't going to overclock your Mac and two, you aren't going to add-in your own components like a new motherboard or power supply. So with the Mac, you are stuck with one motherboard and power supply, so there is no need for better cooling or a better case. The cooling system on the Mac was designed for silence. It does a great job of it.

This is why Apple like to keep control on their hardware and software, because it creates a more stable environment through limiting hardware. If they control what hardware the Mac uses, then there is no concern over compatibility... it's built right into the OS.

There is nothing better about the Mac. What it brings is a stable platform through limited hardware configurations and a more aesthetic feel. Do I like OS X better than Vista? Of course. But, each platform has its uses for me. But your constant argument of "If you think that there isn't more than just looks that make Macs cost more" is invalid. There isn't one piece of hardware in any Mac that is better than any piece of available hardware for a PC. Apple rolls it up into a solid packaging and a good user experience.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 4/2/2009 2:26:42 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
There isn't one piece of hardware in any Mac that is better than any piece of available hardware for a PC
Think of multitouch trackpads on Macs - you can do things on them with gestures that you can't on a PC. Better hardware on a Mac? Yes. Think of cooling system on MacBooks. No holes on the bottom, unlike PCs. You can put your MacBook on any soft surface and it will not block incoming airflow, unlike on the PC. Better hardware on a Mac? Yes again.
quote:
you aren't going to overclock your Mac
Cooling system on a Mac is not about overclocking. It's about not having idiotic holes at the bottom of the case.
quote:
you aren't going to add-in your own components
Which makes Mac case smaller, thinner and lighter. Which is another example why Mac hardware is better. Of course it's not better for people who don't care about case size, thickness, looks and weight.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Whaaambulance on 4/2/2009 3:12:58 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Think of multitouch trackpads on Macs - you can do things on them with gestures that you can't on a PC. Better hardware on a Mac? Yes.


Wrong. It isn't 'better hardware'. It's a proprietary technology feature. The hardware that is hosting it isn't better than the hardware in any PC laptop. This is where you keep fumbling and not understanding the real differences.

quote:
Cooling system on a Mac is not about overclocking. It's about not having idiotic holes at the bottom of the case


You're right! It has holes in the front and in the back. What is your point about it being on the bottom? Infact, in a case with properly designed airflow, there would be only one intake and multiple exhausts (think positive air pressure). Whether the intake is on the front or the bottom makes no difference. This is what I mean, you throw out your personal opinions and base them as fact. There is no fact out there that says "Front intakes are better than bottom intakes" or "Bottom intake is bad". Please refrain from these types opinionated responses and people will definitely take you more seriously. Also calling things 'idiotic' doesn't help prove your case either.

quote:
Which makes Mac case smaller, thinner and lighter. Which is another example why Mac hardware is better. Of course it's not better for people who don't care about case size, thickness, looks and weight.


Again, you are trying to write off opinion as fact. FYI Lian Li makes a case very similar to the mac pro. Just as light, slim with good looks. Again, there is nothing 'better' about the mac hardware. Also there are plenty of cases out there that are lighter, smaller and look nicer (because looks are strictly based on personal taste, so again you are passing off your opinions as fact).

Do you understand your shortcomings now?


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 4/2/2009 3:34:54 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
It isn't 'better hardware'. It's a proprietary technology feature.
You think renaming it changes anything? Like "proprietary" hardware is anyhow different from "Mac" hardware? Of course it's proprietary, just like the proprietary PC touchpads. So what? I don't see your point.
quote:
Whether the intake is on the front or the bottom makes no difference.
No, it does make a difference. When you put notebook on a soft surface it will block incoming airflow if the holes are at the bottom, like on a PC notebook. This is not the case for Mac, because Mac doesn't have those damn holes at the bottom! So nothing will block the incoming airflow if you put Mac notebook on a soft surface! Got it now?
quote:
Lian Li makes a case very similar to the mac pro
How about iMac or MacBook? Does Lian Li make cases very similar to these? ;-)


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Whaaambulance on 4/2/2009 3:41:17 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
You think renaming it changes anything? Like "proprietary" hardware is anyhow different from "Mac" hardware?


The technology is proprietary, not the hardware. Meaning the software backing it. Maybe that wasn't clear.

quote:
No, it does make a difference. When you put notebook on a soft surface it will block incoming airflow if the holes are at the bottom, like on a PC notebook. This is not the case for Mac, because Mac doesn't have those damn holes at the bottom! So nothing will block the incoming airflow if you put Mac notebook on a soft surface! Got it now?


So what you are saying is that PC cases with holes on the bottom are not propped up on legs that do not hinder airflow? Think about what you are saying. Also, take more time before responding so you fully understand what you are posting. See the following article with a case that has bottom holes: http://www.anandtech.com/casecoolingpsus/showdoc.a...

By the holes being on the bottom, it doesn't impede airflow. The only downside to holes being on the bottom is dust collection, which if you have a dust filter on your intake ports, which I do on all my cases, this is a non-issue. So your argument that holes on the bottom are inferior to holes on the front is invalid.

quote:
How about iMac or MacBook? Does Lian Li make cases very similar to these? ;-)


They make towers, mainly. But there are very nice all-in-ones out there as well. Again, I appreciate Apples eye for aesthetics. They make great looking cases. But calling them 'better' is still a matter of your opinion.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 4/2/2009 4:04:03 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
The technology is proprietary, not the hardware. Meaning the software backing it.
But the Mac touchpad is different from PC touchpads, it's visible even just by looking at it. How come you're trying to push your agenda that PC touchpads are exactly the same as Mac ones when Mac touchpads don't even have BUTTONS to begin with!
quote:
So what you are saying is that PC cases with holes on the bottom are not propped up on legs that do not hinder airflow?
I was talking about the notebook cooling, not the desktop cooling.
quote:
your argument that holes on the bottom are inferior to holes on the front is invalid.
Once you realize that I was talking about notebooks you'll understand that you were wrong.
quote:
calling them 'better' is still a matter of your opinion
Calling them 'overpriced' is still a matter of opinion too.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Whaaambulance on 4/2/2009 4:11:37 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
But the Mac touchpad is different from PC touchpads, it's visible even just by looking at it. How come you're trying to push your agenda that PC touchpads are exactly the same as Mac ones when Mac touchpads don't even have BUTTONS to begin with!


Right, the only difference on the hardware side, is that instead of there being buttons on the outside, they are on the inside. Doesn't mean it's 'better'. That is still opinion.

quote:
I was talking about the notebook cooling, not the desktop cooling.


That's fine. I was referring to desktops. Either way, if the cooling on non-mac laptops was inferior then I don't think they would last very long. Most laptops have passive cooling on top of active cooling. They are meant to withstand higher than normal heat. Also if you think that because Macbooks dont have holes on the bottom that they run cooler, you are mistaken. I should know, I have one. They get VERY hot on the bottom. I bought a laptop cooler for my macbook because it's an issue to me to have the case get so hot. ALL Laptops get hot.

quote:
Once you realize that I was talking about notebooks you'll understand that you were wrong


Great, you are right. It was a misunderstanding. You get +1 e-peen point. Grats.

quote:
Calling them 'overpriced' is still a matter of opinion too.


Seeing as I actually buy Apple products, for me that isn't an issue. But you cannot argue other peoples points of being budget-minded and for basically the same configuration (remove aesthetics and looks and personal agenda for a moment) as the macbook for a much lower price.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 4/2/2009 5:02:47 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
the only difference on the hardware side, is that instead of there being buttons on the outside, they are on the inside
If you wanna stay so formal you can call a mix of Mac software and hardware better than the mix of PC software and hardware. I don't mind :)
quote:
ALL Laptops get hot
True, but not all laptops suffer from decreased incoming airflow after being put on a soft surface. Only the PC ones suffer, not Macs, which explains my argument about Mac cooling system being better.
quote:
you cannot argue other peoples points of being budget-minded and for basically the same configuration (remove aesthetics and looks and personal agenda for a moment) as the macbook for a much lower price
I don't mind budget minded users, but only when they refrain from bashing premium brands like Apple.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By rj78 on 4/3/2009 5:03:04 PM , Rating: 1
HAHHAHAHAH!!! Look at you guys! Why don't you guys fuck eachother and just get it over with??? LOLOLOLOOLOL

Seriously Pirks, every post of yours has this persons name in it.. like wtf DUDE we wanna see him pump you in the ass already!! hahahahha you know u want him inside of youuuu

500 posts wooooohooooo

thanks for all the laughs Pirks, you are the best comedian yet!!!!!


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By rj78 on 4/3/2009 4:57:45 PM , Rating: 1
Hhahahhaha holy shit that was good lollllllllllll!!!!!

Why isn't pirks here yet????

My coworkers need MOAR LAUGHSSSSSSS


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 3/28/09, Rating: -1
RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 3/27/09, Rating: -1
RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Whaaambulance on 3/27/2009 12:49:48 PM , Rating: 3
Uh oh... more car comparisons incoming!!!


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By mondo1234 on 3/27/2009 12:57:07 PM , Rating: 5
but wait, there's more,
Pirks is going to compare Microsoft to McDonalds hamburgers now with their billions served.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By SavagePotato on 3/27/2009 3:49:27 PM , Rating: 5
Pirk's perpetual lexus defense is sort of on par with the chewbacca defense as far as relevance goes.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By just4U on 3/27/2009 5:07:27 PM , Rating: 2
It's like comparing a $250 PC to a $1000 PC .. or in Apples case a $1000 Mac and $3000 Mac (heh)


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By retrospooty on 3/27/2009 12:57:15 PM , Rating: 4
Lexus and Chevy are very different cars with very VERY different reliablity and longevity.

Mac and PC use the exact same CPU and chipset.

Your comparison is totally bunk.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Whaaambulance on 3/27/2009 1:00:47 PM , Rating: 5
Be careful, Spoot... you are using logic... that kind of stuff doesn't fly with Pirks!


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 3/27/09, Rating: -1
RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By ExarKun333 on 3/27/2009 1:12:49 PM , Rating: 5
You apparently know nothing about computer, please go troll someone else.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 3/27/09, Rating: -1
RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By piroroadkill on 3/27/2009 1:31:44 PM , Rating: 5
HEY GUYS WE HAVE A FUCKING EXPERT HERE, HE CAN LINE UP COLOURED SOCKETS AND USE A SCREWDRIVER AND PURCHASE THINGS ONLINE, STOP THE FUCKING PRESSES, HE MUST BE A CUNTING GENIUS


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Whaaambulance on 3/27/2009 1:35:14 PM , Rating: 5
10/10


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 3/27/09, Rating: -1
RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Whaaambulance on 3/27/2009 1:53:32 PM , Rating: 5
I think his point was, it doesn't take a computer expert to do this. If you can read directions, you could probably assemble a PC.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 3/27/09, Rating: -1
RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Whaaambulance on 3/27/2009 2:51:23 PM , Rating: 4
According to you, anyone who disagrees with your flawed logic, is a 'liar'.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 3/27/09, Rating: -1
RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By akosixiv on 3/27/2009 3:44:40 PM , Rating: 5
Basically, your knowledge of computers does not extend to other parts of human knowledge. So your argument is moot.

There are such things which could not be compared to cars. Simple contrivances such as prices differences cannot just be explained via comparisons via cars.

Next time please explain in a better fashion so that people may take you seriously.

When my brother was 5 years old, he could already disassemble his own PC and reassemble it by himself. So knowledge of building your own PC is not that big of a deal.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 3/27/09, Rating: -1
RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Hieyeck on 3/27/2009 2:58:48 PM , Rating: 2
Be nice, reading the f--ine manual still makes him smarter than half the world.

Wait, never mind, this thread is comedy gold.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By omnicronx on 3/28/09, Rating: 0
RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 3/28/09, Rating: -1
RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Targon on 4/2/2009 9:51:58 AM , Rating: 2
Anyone who would spend the insane amount of money on an Alienware machine is in the same world as those who spend an insane amount of money on a Mac. Just because there are overpriced Windows based computers does NOT mean that all Windows based computers with the same specs will be overpriced.

Pirks, this is where your difference of opinion with others comes into play. You come from the perspective of someone who is willing to spend two to three times the price of components for a computer, so a Mac does not seem like it is overpriced. For the rest of us, we look at the cost of a machine, compare it to what we would get, and if the price/performance ratio is not acceptable, we don't CARE if we don't have the fastest machine, because the price to get that machine just isn't worth it.

Oh, and for the record, Dell is NOT cool, and hasn't been for a long time now. If you can afford the cost of a "cool Dell", you would be better off buying a custom built machine and saving yourself a lot of headaches.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 4/2/2009 12:20:44 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Anyone who would spend the insane amount of money on an Alienware machine is in the same world as those who spend an insane amount of money on a Mac.
Insane amount of money? You mean like $1400 for Alienware M17, a high-end 17" gaming laptop with latest Penryn, DDR3 and Radeon 3870 inside? Are you kidding? Tell me you tried to make a stupid joke.
quote:
You come from the perspective of someone who is willing to spend two to three times the price of components for a computer
You are a liar. You will not find a brand new high-end 17" gaming notebook with the same specs as my Alienware M17 for half its price, i.e. for $700. I know this for a fact. Keep lying, whatever :)
quote:
Dell is NOT cool
I don't buy computers because they are cool. You just imagined some stupid things about me, probably inspired by Wintard trolls abundant in this thread (Whaaa and his potatotwin are the prime examples).


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Whaaambulance on 4/2/2009 12:45:16 PM , Rating: 1
Bro, seriously... avoid Pirks like the plague. You cannot reason with him. Here you make valid points, and he comes back with insults and forces his opinions as facts. Slowly I am beginning to realize that I should simply stop responding to him. I feel I have spent far too much time attempting to save this worthless pile of shit that Pirks is.

If you can point out 1 post of his that anyone has found informative or valuable, please show me. I would give you $100 for it.

He isn't worth your time. Bottom line.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 4/2/2009 2:39:37 PM , Rating: 2
Come on Whaaa, you started with a good post above about Mac cases and cooling and now you're back to your standard clownish performance? What's wrong with ya? You look like a drunkard trying to get away from that sweet bottle. Stop your clownisms, get serious :) You almost managed to do this above. One more post like that and no clownisms - and you'll get back to mentally healthy state, woohoo!! :))


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Whaaambulance on 4/2/2009 3:02:18 PM , Rating: 2
Actually, this post was prior to that one. Keep calling me whatever you want and saying what you will. Doesn't matter. Nobody respects you on this forum. It doesn't make sense why you don't notice this and take action to correct it. I think you just enjoy trolling and arguing for the sake of argument.

It's like everything you are calling me, is what you are yourself. You are mental based on your posts here.

Prove me wrong.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 4/2/2009 3:46:31 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Prove me wrong
Easy :)) You carefully avoided this post of mine: http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=14691... because you're sooo afraid of truth :))


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Whaaambulance on 4/2/2009 3:49:35 PM , Rating: 2
I really don't get your point. Where did I avoid your 'truth'? You are posting something that I probably didn't care to read about in the first place.

So you post some fact that you find on the internet and boast about how I avoid the truth about your posts? I really don't get you. What is your issue, exactly?

I know that you cannot stand being proven wrong, and want to be right about everything, but believe it or not, you aren't. And believe it or not, but there are people out there that are smarter than you.

Seriously... relax dude...


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 4/2/2009 4:45:46 PM , Rating: 2
It's not my issue, I just proved to you that I got downrated for posting the truth, the hard fact. Say bye bye to your argument about my rating. If I'm getting -1 rating for posting the truth like that post above - this is an indication of high quality of my posts here. Got it now?


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Whaaambulance on 4/2/2009 5:01:55 PM , Rating: 2
I could begin to explain why just about everything you are saying here is just wrong on so many levels, but I really don't think it will matter.

You are always going to be right in your own mind. Your opinions will continue to be the only ones that matter to you. You will continue passing off your opinions as fact and people will continue to downrate you because you will continue to bring no value to any discussion.

I am moving on to another discussion.

Later.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 4/2/2009 5:10:38 PM , Rating: 2
Escaping discussion at the right moment (i.e. when hit by hard cold facts) is the important trait of every forum clown. Glad you learned it well, Whaaa :) Less lies and other garbage from you in this thread, this is good!


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By rj78 on 4/3/2009 4:59:57 PM , Rating: 2
Bwahahhaha!!! You are our new forum clown PIRKS!!!!

Come on GUUUURL!!! Make us laugh hahahhah!!!

Shake them sexy legs Pirks shake them!!! I like my women large too, you are too sexy!!!


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By PrezWeezy on 4/3/2009 7:24:17 PM , Rating: 1
Someone actually employs you? They actually give you money? Must be a government worker...


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 4/3/2009 8:37:24 PM , Rating: 2
I won't give you an opportunity to envy me, don't even ask, lama :)))


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By PrezWeezy on 4/7/2009 8:23:21 PM , Rating: 2
I promise it's not envy. It's amazement.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Cincybeck on 3/30/2009 8:39:16 AM , Rating: 2
Or cars. If you're going to compare. Lexus is owned by Toyota. If you open a hood of a Lexus you will see a Toyota engine. Usually a tuned higher output engine as well. Also I believe the newer Lexus hybrids are the only Lexus cars that feature a 4 cylinder engine. The majority are 6 cylinder engines, which provide a smoother, more comfortable ride, with more power. You could also do the same with Infiniti and Nissan, Integra with Honda, Lincoln with Ford. So yea you'll pay more for a "Luxury vehicle", but you usually get a higher output engine with that as well. Which pretty much invalidates your argument considering Apple doesn't provide faster, higher clocked components. So the only thing you're getting is a fancy case with a logo and OS X. It doesn't take much money for a logo. So you're paying $500 or more for OS X making it the highest priced OS for a consumer computer, and people bitch about Windows being overpriced. Heh... =D


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By trisct on 3/30/2009 11:14:09 AM , Rating: 3
Except Apple doesn't supply faster, higher clocked components. The fastest parts out there come with Windows, as far as CPU goes. And, as for the rest of the components, how about GPUs? Apple never has any better than second-rate graphics chip choices available in their boxes, although they are starting to learn that lesson.

What Apple does give you is custom designed motherboards that fit into a nice looking box. Not faster, just prettier.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By trisct on 3/30/2009 11:19:18 AM , Rating: 2
And so I agree - sounded like I was arguing after I read this again...


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 3/30/09, Rating: -1
RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By fownde on 3/27/2009 1:25:41 PM , Rating: 5
See here's where you do have a point. They both use a similar engine, 4 tires etc. Why do they pay more for a Lexus? Because of the NAME. Why do you pay more for a mac? The NAME.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 3/27/09, Rating: -1
RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By SavagePotato on 3/27/2009 3:57:36 PM , Rating: 5
Actually they pay more for several reasons. The components do actually cost more, the production is most likely more limited and sales are lesser. Do they scale perfectly and are most luxury cars actually priced accordingly based on their cost to make? no. However they do cost more to make.

Apple how ever does not have access to some magical parts that justify a 100% price increase. You can build pcs using the best quality and highly priced components on the market and still build them resoundingly cheaper than a mac, which in terms of quality of components and reliability is no better than a dell, or hp, or whatever.

So while yes luxury cars do have some basis for their price, the mac does not.

Waste of time telling a buffoon like pirks that though since he is convinced they do. It's about on par with convincing Hitler the Jews are okay. Everyone knows he's wrong but it ain't gonna happen.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 3/27/09, Rating: -1
RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Whaaambulance on 3/27/2009 4:27:51 PM , Rating: 5
In every article you post in, I slam-dunk your face in your own feces. Completely destroying your flawed logic and inane babble in every thread. All the while being rated to 5 while you get downrated to -1 in EVERY POST.

Yet somehow you continue to post, as if assuming people actually give a rats ass about your opinions. Your ignorance barrier has got to be at least 20 feet thick and made of 100% pure dumb.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Doormat on 3/27/09, Rating: -1
RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Whaaambulance on 3/27/2009 4:53:57 PM , Rating: 5
Did you even bother reading my posts before you go spouting off your bs? Are you really saying that I am saying that Apple doesn't innovate? No, I didn't say that anywhere.

quote:
Just because there are more of you


More of what? People that use their brains and not post inaccurate babble to clutter the forum with?


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Doormat on 3/27/09, Rating: -1
RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Doormat on 3/27/09, Rating: -1
RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Whaaambulance on 3/27/2009 5:20:04 PM , Rating: 5
quote:
So what part of my post was inaccurate? Point it out...


I just pointed it out where I asked you to find where I was dogging apple in ANY of my posts...

Learn to read. Just take a few breaths before you post. Take your time, don't type angry, son.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Doormat on 3/27/09, Rating: -1
RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Whaaambulance on 3/27/2009 5:29:38 PM , Rating: 3
I didn't dog Apple, you moron. I dogged YOU for being a moron.

READ, son... read.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Doormat on 3/27/09, Rating: -1
RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Whaaambulance on 3/27/2009 5:43:55 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
So the link to the Maddox page isn't a dis on Apple? Whatever man.


Again, please go back and read it again. I said "Apple Lovers"... meaning apple fanatics that fight tooth and nail over stupid arguments.

I have nothing against Apple. I do have alot against Apple Zealots...


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 3/27/09, Rating: -1
RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Whaaambulance on 3/27/2009 5:18:34 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
More of braindead lie-spreading clowns like myself, Whaaa. I apologize for wasting yours and others in this article's time by posting my mentally handicapped nonsense. I digress.


Why thank you, Pirks. I appreciate it, and so do the rest of the readers here.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 3/29/09, Rating: -1
RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By just4U on 3/27/2009 5:04:21 PM , Rating: 4
No one says that Apple doesn't have some good points only that their computers are insanely overpriced. Typically people buy a Inferior product at a substantially higher cost and Microsoft's finally calling them on it. Bout damn time to as quite a few Mac user's that bought their pc's on a whim could benifit from having their eyes opened.

That's the whole basis of this entire discussion.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 3/27/09, Rating: -1
RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By just4U on 3/27/2009 5:37:26 PM , Rating: 2
Im part of that market Pirks. I may not be "APPLE" but I build a fair number of computers each year and advise 100s more on what route to take. Because of my overall impressions about the Mac and it's "VALUE" I never suggest it and typically discourage people from buying them.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 3/27/09, Rating: -1
RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By just4U on 3/28/2009 12:20:35 AM , Rating: 2
Well we are on a forum with quite a few knowledgable people kicking about and posting right? Bitching about the industry is a given amongst your peers as well as those looking to learn more. As a side note, I see what you do on these apple oriented threads and it spurs debate. That's a GOOD thing. Liven's it all up and gets others posting and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Jacerie on 3/27/2009 10:31:40 PM , Rating: 5
whoa... a Pirks post not at -1...

this error has been corrected.

please continue.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By aegisofrime on 3/28/2009 12:32:28 AM , Rating: 5
Can we have a -2 rating specially for Pirks?


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Doormat on 3/27/09, Rating: -1
RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By SavagePotato on 3/27/2009 5:20:13 PM , Rating: 3
The last gen of macbooks were still starting at 3000 dollars and they didn't have a magical unibody aluminum chassis. But ooooh sorry they use space age plastics and somehow their trackpad and keyboard are worth a thousand dollars more. um no.

Their price point is not based on quality or cost to build, it is based on what sheeple will pay to fool themselves.

How many articles have there been about quality control problems from apple. Faulty mag safe adapters, problems with pretty much every ipod, the iphone, their quality is no better than any other.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Whaaambulance on 3/27/2009 5:22:28 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
The last gen of macbooks were still starting at 3000 dollars


I will need to correct you there. I have the last gen and I paid $1999.99. for my Macbook Pro.

Just thought I would point that out. And in terms of reliability, I am pretty rough on my Macbook and have not had any issues to speak of.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By SavagePotato on 3/27/2009 5:36:45 PM , Rating: 3
I was referring to the 17 inch lineup to which I recently compared my 17 inch dell with better specs in every single category, for half the price. But of course according to good ol apple shill pirks, a mac will outperform a pc with better specs with it's super mac sauce.

Regardless however if you have had issues, there is no denying that with every apple product released there is inevitably some kind of article about users plagued with some issue. Recently the hosed graphics on the new unibody series comes to mind. Good choice with nvidia by the way there apple. As we know apple only chooses the absolute top quality components, clearly why they would go with nvidia an their infamous failing crap.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Doormat on 3/27/09, Rating: -1
RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By SavagePotato on 3/27/2009 5:45:15 PM , Rating: 5
Canadian site, 17 inch macbook pro is 2999.00 starting. Not all the world deals in US currency.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Doormat on 3/27/09, Rating: -1
RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By SavagePotato on 3/27/2009 5:55:30 PM , Rating: 5
I was accurate, I quote prices in the currency that is familiar to me on a day to day basis.

Maybe you should apply for a job on red eye on fox since you have a problem with Canada.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Doormat on 3/27/09, Rating: 0
RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Whaaambulance on 3/27/2009 5:45:44 PM , Rating: 5
quote:
The 17" MBP is $2799 on Apple's website


It's still close to $3000.00, which I believe was his point.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Doormat on 3/27/09, Rating: -1
RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By SavagePotato on 3/27/2009 5:52:54 PM , Rating: 5
I didn't mean close to, I meant three thousand dollars, $2999.00 Canadian at apple.ca, starting price.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Whaaambulance on 3/27/2009 5:52:44 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
If he meant close, he should have wrote close, instead you're making excuses for him.


You seriously have insecurity issues, man. You act like everyone is against you. You don't need to get so defensive, it's making you look bad.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Doormat on 3/27/09, Rating: -1
RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Whaaambulance on 3/27/2009 6:00:44 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Thats it, attack me personally. Because you don't have anything left in your clip.


You are pointing out his mistakes... just like I have been pointing out yours in your last 4 posts directed at me. Am I going to sit here and babble on and on about your inaccuracies? No. So get off his.

And for the record, im not sticking up for anyone. I fight for justice. I beat down forumtards that deserve it. Don't be a forumtard and you wont have to deal with my wrath.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Doormat on 3/27/09, Rating: -1
RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Whaaambulance on 3/27/2009 6:13:49 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
So you're a super hero now eh?


Now? Pfft... have been for years!

:)


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 3/27/09, Rating: -1
RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Whaaambulance on 3/27/2009 6:28:51 PM , Rating: 3
Nowhere near as soft and cuddly as your over-usage of smileys and LOLzzz.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By SavagePotato on 3/27/2009 6:04:40 PM , Rating: 3
No, it's not a lie, it's a fact. the only error was simply forgetting to put 17 inch in the sentence. If you couldn't figure that part out for yourself in the first place and need to make a 10 post issue out of it calling someone a liar you are just being a douche.

Furthermore, quoting the price in ones own currency does not make one a liar, dumbass.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Doormat on 3/27/09, Rating: -1
RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By SavagePotato on 3/27/2009 5:51:00 PM , Rating: 3
I am Canadian, it is exactly 3000 dollars, well 2999.00 if you want to nitpick. The only thing I neglected to point out is I was referring to the 17 inch macbook pro.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 3/27/09, Rating: -1
RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By SavagePotato on 3/27/2009 6:09:54 PM , Rating: 4
quote:
Another lie. Your Dell is not as thin and light and battery efficient as MacBook Pro 17". Its trackpad is worse, OS is more prone to malware infestation, and other minor things like that. If you are too blind to notice these details - doesn't mean EVERYONE is as blind as you.


Pirks, let me tell you, that better be one gold plated goddamn trackpad for $1500 dollars.

Do not even go there on malware. Vista64 is far far far and away more secure than mac os. Perhaps you should take a look at the pwn2own competition for this year. The pure outright falsehood that mac os is more secure has been disproven HARD. In fact it is so insecure firefox on the mac fares worse than the PC because of the os insecurities.

In addition dimensions weight and battery life also do not equate to 1500 dollars in price increase. If they did, by your logic the macbook air is worth what $10000?


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 3/27/09, Rating: -1
RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By SavagePotato on 3/27/2009 6:35:39 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
Perhaps YOU should take a look at 10 million PCs infected by Downadup and THEN re-tell me your fairy tale about poor Mac security and uberexcellent Windows security:) I'm all listening!


Let's say it together, security through obscurity is not security...

And that ties in with the other tidbit of reality. The market that is 90+% pc based does not agree. That's right the almighty market pirks. Not to mention the fact apple has slumped hard in the face of recession as well.

How that ties in is that yes, when you have over 90% of the market, the hackers tend to target you. once again, go read the results of this years pwn2own, the mac went down in seconds, yes seconds, to a hacker.

Unlike you i read the interview with that hacker who views mac as a joke, and points out the inadequacy of osx's security in comparison to windows.

The fact that mac os is so small potatoes that noone WANTS to write malware for it is the only reason it's not getting beaten into the ground by all it's security flaws.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 3/27/09, Rating: -1
RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Whaaambulance on 3/27/2009 6:40:03 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
Perhaps YOU should take a look at 10 million PCs infected by Downadup and THEN re-tell me your fairy tale about poor Mac security and uberexcellent Windows security:) I'm all listening!


Sigh... another retardfest of posts by Pirks.

This cannot be any simpler (except for you, maybe). It's called 'marketshare'. Why would someone who is writing a virus want to only affect such a teeny-tiny market of users? No, they are going to go for the big dog, which is Microsoft. If Apple was in Microsofts place, it would have the exact same issues.

For the love of Jeebus... quit being so retarded.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 3/27/09, Rating: -1
RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By PhoenixKnight on 3/28/2009 2:23:00 AM , Rating: 5
quote:
But Apple is not in MS's shoes yet, that's why Macs are safer. Like I said - users do not care about _why_ Macs are safer


That may be true for now, but if Apple does in fact weather the recession better than PC makers and manage to gain some marketshare, then I can assure you they won't stay safe for much longer. Also, as Microsoft increases the security of Windows more and more, hackers may decide that hacking Windows isn't worth their time and go after Macs instead.

Unfortunately, Apple doesn't have a very good track record when it comes to patching vulnerabilities in a timely manner, so when the day does come, they will be ill prepared to combat the problem. It only takes one security hole and one motivated hacker (or team of hakers) to do major damage.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 3/28/2009 10:07:26 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
That may be true for now, but if Apple does in fact weather the recession better than PC makers and manage to gain some marketshare, then I can assure you they won't stay safe for much longer
That's a big IF. Existence of epidemic worm infections under Windows does not reliably predict future existence of the same scale infections for Macs.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By eldakka on 3/29/2009 10:09:01 PM , Rating: 1
Err, that should be 10 million Microsoft Windows based computers that are affected.

Or are you telling me if I installed Windows on a Mac it would be 'safe'? Or if I installed Mac OS on a 'PC' that it would be vulnerable? Or I could put Linux on either, or Solaris on the 'PC', or numerous other operating systems.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By adiposity on 3/30/2009 12:11:47 PM , Rating: 3
I believe macs are overpriced. However, laptops are a different market than desktops. You make fun of charging 1500 for a superior (not saying it is superior, but still) trackpad. Well, unless you can find someone who will replace the trackpad in your HP laptop for $1500 with a mac one or something similar, aren't you kind of making his argument for him?

Laptops are still in the realm of "total" products, like cars and mp3 players. You can't easily upgrade or convert them, for the most part. Thus, $1500 may easily be worth it for someone who cares about the quality of the built-in trackpad. Or the thin form factor. Or the long battery life. Or the "sleek" look. Or whatever. You can't just take a PC laptop and change out the parts that you like in a Mac. HP and Dell are getting close with some of their models but for now, if you can afford it, there are certain things you can only get with a Mac.

The Lexus comparison isn't so bad, here. Sure, Lexuses (I have one) are demonstrably more reliable and higher quality than some other cars. But are they $20,000 more reliable??? Most owners would probably say, "no." But they don't care, they are willing to pay the extra money to get the things they like built-in and a quality product. So what if they could buy two GMs over the same 10 years they drive the Lexus? They like the Lexus, and there is no way to turn a GM into a Lexus.

And, there is no way to turn an HP/Sony/Dell/Lenovo into a Mac. For one thing, being able to run both OSes gives the Mac an edge that is pretty tough to surpass or quantify. Everything that you love about Vista/XP can be on there, as well as the Mac side. Add to that the things that people like about Macs, and you have definitely added some value over "exactly the same CPU and chipset" that others have complained about. Is it $1500? Well, I guess that depends if you need/want Mac OS or the "cool" factor of the machine.

Personally, I own a Lenovo and think I get a way better value out of it. Dedicated function keys, built-in EVDO, a real delete key, a right click button (two, actually), and Windows, which I use. And I don't care that it doesn't look super cool. But clearly I am not the market for a Mac. This doesn't make it stupid to buy one, though.

-Dan


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 3/27/09, Rating: -1
RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Yaron on 3/28/2009 5:48:43 AM , Rating: 1
By the way guys, wanna hear something about overpricing?

In Israel (where I live), these are the prices for Macs:

The entry model Quad Mac Pro costs $3,547 USD
(compared to $2,499 USD in the US)

The entry model Octa Mac Pro costs $4,642 USD
(compared to $3,299 USD in the US)

The entry model MacBook Pro costs $2,618 USD
(compared to $1,999 USD in the US)

The entry model MacBook (aluminum) costs $1,714 USD
(compared to $1,299 USD in the US)

How's that for overpricing?!?!?

And know this, the frustrating thing is that Israel is the land of WinPCs. We can buy them dirt cheap over here. It's cheaper then Dell.

Someone PLEASE send me a greencard so I can live in the US and buy my Macs there!
:D


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Alexstarfire on 3/27/2009 9:26:41 PM , Rating: 3
Well, I can point out the multitouch issue. Others can use it because Apple won't let them, not because they just don't. Also, unibody case? whoopy doo. Everything else seems fine. Can't say much about batteries or the 9400M. Although I can get something better than a 9400M, granted it going to be expensive since they don't let you customize notebooks like that. Comparing notebooks is hard because even PC notebooks like a lot of customization.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Cincybeck on 3/30/2009 9:02:20 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
Where are the multitouch chips enabling trackpads to use multi-finger gestures?


Apple has a patent on this, and has already threatened litigation against companies who attempt to implement it. That's why the Google G1 phone doesn't have multitouch.

quote:
Where are the other notebooks with a 9400M inside them?


Why would you want a 9400M when there is next gen GTX 280M notebooks already out? Not to mention a lot of companies have been shipping with 9800M chips for a while now?

You do win on the unibody aluminum case however. I'll give you that.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 3/27/09, Rating: -1
RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By matt0401 on 3/28/09, Rating: 0
RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 3/28/09, Rating: -1
RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By nugundam93 on 3/27/2009 1:40:39 PM , Rating: 1
given that apple now uses the same hardware such as processor and all, i guess the better analogy would be the price in paying for a Toyota Altezza vs. Lexus IS. powered by the same parts but just different aesthetics and all.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By retrospooty on 3/27/09, Rating: 0
RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 3/27/09, Rating: -1
RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By tastyratz on 3/27/09, Rating: 0
RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 3/27/09, Rating: -1
RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By tastyratz on 3/27/09, Rating: 0
RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 3/27/09, Rating: -1
RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By SavagePotato on 3/27/2009 5:58:47 PM , Rating: 5
What the entire community is telling you with the torrent of -1 posts you have, is that when you learn that a computer is not a car we will talk.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 3/27/09, Rating: -1
RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By SavagePotato on 3/27/2009 6:52:26 PM , Rating: 4
Well, let's seeeeeeee...

You post on average like 30 to 50 times in every thread with your nonsense rants. They all manage to get rated down to -1... That is one hell of alot of zealots that are out to get you.

That means everyone is wrong and you are the only one that is right. Isn't that like a sign of some psychological disorder? yes you manage to get like a couple hundred negative ratings on EVERY thread because they are out to get you!!

Get your tinfoil hat on and get in the corner pirks, or maybe just stop going full retard every thread and you might not get rated lower than Hitler would.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 3/27/09, Rating: -1
RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Whaaambulance on 3/27/2009 6:56:18 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
Doormat, kelmon, robinthakur and michael2k are prime examples


Prime examples of forumtards like yourself. Every one of them are people who happened to agree with something you might have said. Either that or they are Apple Zealots.

So what you are doing is basically calling almost all the users on this forum idiots? Hmmm that's interesting.. because it's totally impossible that YOU might be the retard.... hmmmmm....


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 3/27/09, Rating: -1
RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Whaaambulance on 3/28/2009 2:47:14 AM , Rating: 3
Back to the same "I know you are but what am I" antics I see. It's good to know that you are at least reliable in that you will always be an idiot.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 3/28/09, Rating: -1
RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By tastyratz on 3/27/2009 6:41:07 PM , Rating: 2
you know whats equally as relevant?
potatoes.

Stop hyperfocusing on an inapplicable argument and learn to read.

Key words of my post were "reputable competitor" and "all features being the same". Apple is not developing some revolutionary hardware, they are making hardware based largely on intel draft spec - Should I have needed to delve into a list of features for you to wrap around it? There is no special feature or design element inside the box - only outside.

Contrary to your belief apple is NOT the only company who knows how to make computer parts

The $8.00 bottle of water is a perfect argument. The bottle changes and the label is different but in the end filtered pure h20 is pure h20 any way you cut it. Maybe you get to tell people you drink apple water (even though you clearly drink the apple "kool aid") but in the end its still water no matter which major reputable manufacturer bottles it.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By petesonic on 3/27/2009 2:53:26 PM , Rating: 1
I was under the impression that the Altezza was the name used in Japan and was not sold elsewhere while it was sold under the Name Lexus IS in Europe and America. So I odn't think that you could make a price comparison due to the different markets. Is there a price difference?


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By adiposity on 3/30/2009 12:13:44 PM , Rating: 1
Good comparison for IS300. IS350/250, doesn't exist.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By retrospooty on 3/27/2009 1:50:13 PM , Rating: 3
HEre we go.

No, they don't use the same engine. Totally different and unique designs. Designed by different engineers, and built with different components. Different specs and reliability. Mac and PC all use the exact same Intel chips built in the exact same factories.

What are you trying to prove? You're doing a piss poor job of it.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 3/27/09, Rating: -1
RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By retrospooty on 3/27/2009 2:08:59 PM , Rating: 5
No, I know exactly what a personal computer consists of. I was responding to your retarded comment above that comparing a Mac to a PC is like a Lexus to a Chevy. Mac and PC are FAR more similar than a Lexus to a Chevy.

A Lexus costs far more than a Chevy because it is a FAR better car and costs FAR more to produce.

A Mac is not a far better computer than a PC and it does NOT cost more to produce.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 3/27/09, Rating: -1
RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Whaaambulance on 3/27/2009 3:04:14 PM , Rating: 5
I don't get why you are contradicting yourself. In other posts you claim "Apple uses the same hardware as PC's". But yet here you are arguing that they are different.

Is Apple going to disclose who supplies their motherboards? Because aside from that, everything in the Mac is the exact same hardware you could find in any PC. It's not made by Apple, it's made by some chinese company. I guarantee it's a large motherboard manufacturer like Asus or MSI that makes the exact same hardware for PC's.

Apple is all about aesthetics and they do it well. But saying that Apple is higher quality is absurd. What are you comparing it to? Dell, HP, Acer? The range of PC hardware is to broad for you to make such a simple comparison. The motherboard I use in my system is the absolute top-of-the-line that Asus makes to date. The motherboard itself was $400.

Can you even tell me anything about the motherboard in a mac pro? Who makes it? What type of capacitors does it use? I know mine use 100% Japanese made ones that are the best on the planet for consumer boards. Can you say the same about the mac motherboards? I bet not. I bet you don't know jack about what it is made of or who makes it.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 3/27/09, Rating: -1
RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Whaaambulance on 3/27/2009 3:23:51 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
The only one here who seems to understand you.... is you.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By retrospooty on 3/27/2009 3:24:56 PM , Rating: 3
Foxconn makes the motherboards. And as one of the largest manufacturers in the world, you can bet on the fact that Apple gets major price cuts for the volume they do. I have spent many years in manufacturing and supply chain management as well as reverse logistics (I bet you dont even know what that means). I do know a great deal more about this that you.

Point taken about Mac vs PC opinions on which is better... Totally agreed, that is a matter of personal taste. Both are very capable. My point was that Mac's are NOT more expensive to produce.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 3/27/09, Rating: -1
RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By retrospooty on 3/27/2009 5:46:02 PM , Rating: 3
"Do computers consist only of motherboards? "

??? Is it your intention to say that Macs have better hard drives, DVDrom, etc?

"How about design then? Is the designing process more expensive for Macs? "

I am sure its more expensive than some, and less than others.

Look, you can be as persistent as you want - it doesn't change the fact that Mac's are overpriced for what you get. Not in every single model - but overall, you pay alot extra for a computer that isn't even suited for corporate business or games.

There is nothing that you can say to change that... and its not like I am the first one to notice this, its a well known fact.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 3/27/09, Rating: -1
RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Whaaambulance on 3/27/2009 6:19:29 PM , Rating: 4
quote:
But to call luxury sports cars overpriced is pretty stupid


Another idiotic comparison by Pirks.

Sports cars cost more because they perform better. Macs don't perform better than similar PC hardware.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 3/27/09, Rating: -1
RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Whaaambulance on 3/27/2009 7:01:11 PM , Rating: 3
Sigh... this is like teaching the mentally disabled....

Yes, the sports car is faster, handles better, looks better and gets a man more vagina than an F-150.

And performance is performance on a PC or a Mac. It's either good or it's not. If my PC renders a 3D scene faster than a Mac, it's faster. If it renders a Photoshop filter faster than a Mac, it's faster.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 3/28/09, Rating: -1
RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By SavagePotato on 3/27/2009 6:23:22 PM , Rating: 5
It's like watching a fat lady go back to the all you can eat buffet again and again and again, even though she knows it's wrong.

He Cannot, absolutely cannot resist his car analogy even though it's been proven asinine again and again and again by multiple people. Despite being rated down, ridiculed, basically being the hugest joke besides the troll playstationthree...

He just... cannot... get it...


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By retrospooty on 3/27/2009 7:04:01 PM , Rating: 2
LOL... I know. Its like watching the manager on the office.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 3/27/09, Rating: -1
RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By retrospooty on 3/27/2009 7:06:18 PM , Rating: 2
"Nope, there are other things besides chipsets, CPUs, DVDs and hard drives. "

OMG, your just plain nuts.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By xaoim on 3/27/2009 7:48:02 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
Do computers consist only of motherboards?


quote:
Moving the goalpost, also known as raising the bar, is an informal logically fallacious argument in which evidence presented in response to a specific claim is dismissed and some other (often greater) evidence is demanded. In other words, after an attempt has been made to score a goal, the goalposts are moved to exclude the attempt.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moving_the_goalpost

This guy Pirks is hilarious, he doesn't even realize how stupid he sounds. He is just going to keep shifting his position every time you refute his claims.

Pretty soon he will be saying...
quote:
Do computers consist of monitors, motherboards, CPUs,
, memory, expansion cards, power supplies, DVDs/Cdroms, Hard disks, keyboard, mice, and printers?


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Whaaambulance on 3/27/2009 7:55:38 PM , Rating: 2
He is our own little forumtard. I like to call him 'Blowfish'.

He sure is a funny little guy, isn't he?


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By sbtech on 3/30/09, Rating: 0
RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 3/30/2009 11:47:37 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
While an Intel Core2 Duo 2ghz is same on an Apple or a PC, saying two cars have engines, so they are same is totally wrong
But Whaaamorons here tell me all the time that if the chips in computers are the same then the computers are the same. Are you going to argue with uberdownrating trolling Whaaamorons here? I'd like to see that :)


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By epyon96 on 3/29/2009 9:14:09 PM , Rating: 1
Wow. It's rare to see such a hated person on the forum. I am trying to understand your perspective of things but it simply boils down to this.

A computer is only chips and software, NOTHING else matters. A PC, especially a desktop, is not a fashion item no matter what people tell you. A PC gets you from A to B. You don't show off to your buddies how sick your PC is by telling him the brand. You simply tell him the specs. You cannot pick up a chick with a PC but you can do it with a car.

You can make the fashion argument for a laptop. But should the premium really be 300+? It seems the market does not think so in this economy.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 3/30/09, Rating: -1
RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By adiposity on 3/30/2009 12:19:48 PM , Rating: 2
Look, I agree with you, but you're wrong (if that makes sense).

Something is a fashion item if you want it to be. That fact that computer geeks (which I include myself in) don't think so isn't particularly relevant. And yes, you can pick up a girl by having a Mac vs. a cheap PC. It says, "I am hip and I have money. I am less likely to be a geek."

Your last sentence applies to clothes, cars, etc. But people who care about appearances will still pay...


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Kefner on 3/27/09, Rating: 0
RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By evident on 3/27/2009 2:44:20 PM , Rating: 2
i just logged in to tell you that your stupidity in this thread really really made my day.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Sandok on 3/27/2009 4:21:43 PM , Rating: 1
You are an idiot Pirks...

Intel CPU (Atom or Core i7 or whatever new version is out) is the same whether its in a Apple laptop or a Dell or HP laptop. Or Voodoo or Alienware of any other PC maker out there, a CPU is the same (meaning all companies PAID more or less the same).

Your Lexus belongs to Toyota and Chevy well.. is Chevy so they don't have the same combustion engines. One might have 4 cylinders, the other 8, not same torque curves, BHP, gas sipping abilites, etc.

So ya... Stop using cars, you obviously don't know how to compare different industries (because you can't).


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 3/27/09, Rating: -1
RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By jimbojimbo on 3/27/2009 5:17:39 PM , Rating: 2
You're right. Macs usually lag behind what the PCs have especially on the GPU front.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 3/27/09, Rating: -1
RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Whaaambulance on 3/27/2009 5:50:36 PM , Rating: 4
This argument is invalid. Almost every cross platform game looks better on the PC and you can actually adjust the graphics settings on the PC.

You flip-flop everywhere dude. Just take a week off, contemplate how stupid you have been on these forums, and come back wiser. These forums will appreciate it.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 3/27/2009 7:32:26 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
Almost every cross platform game looks better on the PC
That's highly debatable, a lot of people prefer to play on large screen 52" TVs instead of tiny PC monitors and they think large TV with a console is waay better than a gaming PC picture quality wise.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Whaaambulance on 3/27/2009 7:42:46 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
a lot of people prefer to play on large screen 52" TVs instead of tiny PC monitors


Right.. because my GTX 295 doesn't have HDMI out and I don't play games on my 60" Plasma...

Aside from that, Games look better on my Dell 30" LCD than they do on my Plasma with my 360. I am talking about anti-aliasing and visual effects. Since you rant on about Crysis so much, you should know what a difference graphics settings do for the visuals. Not having those options sucks.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 3/27/2009 11:37:11 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
because my GTX 295 doesn't have HDMI out and I don't play games on my 60" Plasma
Not many people will agree to pay extra grand or so for a gaming PC versus console just for a few better looking pixels. Not worth it for most people.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Whaaambulance on 3/28/2009 2:52:47 AM , Rating: 2
Flip-flop more for us, Blowfish :)


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 3/28/2009 11:36:20 PM , Rating: 2
Spread some more funny lies for us, Whaaa :)