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In Microsoft's latest jab at Apple a fashionable computer shopper realize she just "isn't cool" enough for Apple's expensive products.   (Source: Microsoft)

Instead she finds an HP 17" notebook with Windows Vista for $699.99.  (Source: Microsoft)

She also is able to buy a printer, and still have $100 of the $1,000 left. She happily pockets the difference  (Source: Microsoft)
Latest Microsoft ad may be its strongest attack on Apple yet

Microsoft founder Bill Gates once famously said that he "didn't get" Apple's attack ads on Microsoft.  After all, both companies trying to do the same thing -- create ultra-functional OS systems that met all the users’ needs.  Indeed, for a long time Microsoft was dumbfounded as to how to combat Apple campaign which was based largely on exaggeration, vague accusations, and unfounded insults.

Microsoft finally announced that it would be fighting back with a $300M USD advertising campaign.  For the first round it recruited Jerry Seinfeld, only to see the expensive commercials meet with mixed reviews.  From a public reaction standpoint, the successor to those commercials, the "I'm a PC" commercials were much more effective, appealing to many who were sick of Apple's campaign of PC abuse.

Now Microsoft has come up with perhaps its cleverest barb yet -- pointing out how much cheaper PCs are than Macs for the same hardware

The ad gurus at Crispin Porter + Boguksy, who Microsoft has hired to do the ads, contacted computer shoppers in Los Angeles area through Craigslist and other sites.  Posing as market researchers they offered people $700 to $2,000 to buy a new computer, not telling the people that they were with Microsoft according to the Wall Street Journal.  The customers were motivated to bargain hunt as they were told they could keep the rest of the money after the computer purchase.

The first commercial features a woman named Lauren who was given $1,000.  She wanted to get a 17-inch screen and a comfortable keyboard.  She went to the Apple store only to leave disappointed as their cheapest computer (the $999 MacBook) only had a 13-inch screen and featured a narrow keyboard.

"I’m just not cool enough to be a Mac person," the fashionable Californian sarcastically remarks as driving off.

She ends up at Best Buy instead, where she finds a HP Pavilion notebook with a 17-inch screen that's $699.99 before tax.  She's able to get the computer and a printer for $900, pocketing the extra $100.  At the end of the commercial, she states, "I’m a PC, and I got just what I wanted."

Microsoft began airing the programs last night during the popular NCAA men's basketball tournament, broadcast on CBS.  The ads mark the latest chapter in a series of jabs made by Microsoft at Apple over price.  Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer recently remarked that Apple customers were paying $500 more than PC customers "for a logo."

Brad Brooks, corporate vice president for Windows consumer product marketing at Microsoft, says that he "swears on a stack of Bibles" that the contracted ad agency didn't steer customers towards PCs -- they were simply the natural choice as they were cheaper and more full-featured.  He states, "Value is on the top of everybody’s mind these days with the economic situation we’re in."

Indeed, Apple's sales of its pricey desktops and laptops dropped in February, falling 16 percent, while PCs continued to post better sales, thanks to ultra-cheap netbook sales.  Apple is faced with the challenge of wooing the cash-strapped consumer -- it has a couple of entries below $1,000 -- the Mac Mini desktop and the MacBook -- but most of its computers are much more.  For example, the only computer it announced at MacWorld -- the new 17" MacBook Pro starts at a cool $2,799.  



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The Empire Strikes Back
By TA152H on 3/27/2009 10:37:01 AM , Rating: 4
I'm not a big fan of Microsoft, but for too long they let Apple take shots with their MacIntoys, as we used to call them, without responding.

About two years ago, I was contemplating a job which required I get a Mac and support software on it. I went out, priced them, and was aghast at the cost. It's really very dramatic. Needless to say, I didn't want this low quality junk in the first place (Not that this is exclusive to Apple, but you can't duplicate the quality of something you build yourself), but then the price combined with that made me really angry. Obviously, they were selling mostly sizzle instead of the steak, and it was so obvious now because all they were, were PCs in drag. When they were POWER based, it was harder to say, but they are so obvious about it now.

So, I'm glad Microsoft is finally taking them on. I'm sure some people will prefer the Mac OS, but, I think most buy on the image, and don't fully realize they are essentially the same machines - except for a $500 name plate.




RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By retrospooty on 3/27/2009 10:41:33 AM , Rating: 5
And irritating defensive reply from Pirks in 3... 2... 1...

=)


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Whaaambulance on 3/27/2009 11:24:37 AM , Rating: 3
Oh god.... you just jinxed us Spoot....


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By retrospooty on 3/27/2009 11:31:29 AM , Rating: 2
hee hee


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Raidin on 3/27/2009 12:42:55 PM , Rating: 1
Just remember, where there's a Pirks, there's a FITCamaro.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Whaaambulance on 3/27/2009 12:55:43 PM , Rating: 5
To reiterate from a previous post, I am going to sum up the entire contents of Pirks posts into this condensed version to save space and save people the headache of trying to read through all of Pirks useless comments:

------------------------------------------------- -------

Knowledgeabe User: This was a very useful news article, I like it for this reason.

Pirks: I disagree with your statement. Why do I disagree with it? Because it doesn't matter what your opinion is, my opinion is the correct one. It doesn't matter if I back my opinion up with facts or not, yours is wrong.

Knowledgeable User: But I provided links backing up my statements with facts.

Pirks: Hahahhaha your such an idiot :))) ~Lolz!!*** Everyone here know that your comments mean nothing and that everyone should only pay attention to mine.

Knowledgeable User: What's wrong with you dude?

Pirks: Whats wrong with YOU LOL :)))) hheheh my little KnowledgeableUserclown :))))))))

Knowledgeable User: Anyways, let's get back on topic. I think <insert well thought out comment regarding this topic of the articel>.

Pirks: <Insert long-winded speech about how I know more than you, and regardless of facts, my opinion > all.>

Knowledgeable User: Wait a minute... what do cars have to do with what we were talking about?

Knowledgeable User: Sigh... I give up...

Pirks: Wooohooo I win at the interwebs again!! :)))))) LOLZ! :P


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By FITCamaro on 3/27/2009 1:40:28 PM , Rating: 4
Why did this get rated down? I thought it was pretty funny.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Whaaambulance on 3/27/2009 1:50:04 PM , Rating: 2
Guess it was posted too late. It got a 5 rating in the original article LOL. Guess this group isn't as familiar with Pirks as the other.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By michael2k on 3/27/2009 5:09:03 PM , Rating: 2
I thought everyone knew Pirks.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By mindless1 on 3/27/2009 11:10:54 PM , Rating: 5
It's because the only thing worse than trolling is the same trolling plus preemptive retribution trolling too, over and over again.

Grow up kids.


By lexluthermiester on 3/28/2009 3:58:18 PM , Rating: 2
Loving the irony!! Classic, just classic...


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By GodisanAtheist on 3/27/2009 2:47:30 PM , Rating: 2
*Thumbs up* but you forgot the shoehorned car analogy...


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By afkrotch on 3/30/2009 12:18:53 PM , Rating: 1
Hmm....

Mac is like a lambo and a PC is like a Civic. Everyone wants the Lambo, but can only afford a Civic.

Was that good enough there? Lol. I'll stick with my PCs.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Targon on 4/2/2009 8:47:01 AM , Rating: 2
Except that Mac isn't any better than the PC, except for the fact it takes a bit less time to do the initial setup on a Mac. They run a MacOS X logo around while the OS does it's initial stuff behind the scenes, where with XP and Vista, you sit there with some useless "please wait" while that is going on.

The competition is more like Ford vs. GM, where there are differences, but in the end, people will pick which one THEY prefer.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By v3rt1g0 on 3/27/2009 2:53:23 PM , Rating: 3
That impersonation was a little too good. Wow.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By marvdmartian on 3/27/2009 3:18:11 PM , Rating: 2
+1 rep to total of 6 for you, Whaaambulance. :)


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 3/30/09, Rating: -1
RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Whaaambulance on 3/31/2009 11:53:29 AM , Rating: 4
Look at you Pirks, talking about me 4 days after I haven't even been back to this thread. And you are talking about ME obsessed with you? LOL!

I understand you are probably upset that the majority of the people on here know that you are a douchebag and I am 100% correct about you and everything else I post here. Ratings prove all. Your non-existent logic doesn't matter.

Now it's time for you to get off my nuts and head over to a new thread.

"LOLLLzzzzz!!! :P~~~~~~

-Pirks"


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 3/31/09, Rating: -1
RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Whaaambulance on 3/31/2009 3:38:06 PM , Rating: 2
LOOK EVERYONE!! YOU ARE ALL "A BUNCH OF STUPID MORONS INCAPABLE OF UNDERSTANDING PIRKS SIMPLE AND STRAIGHTFORWARD TECHNICAL ARGUMENTS"!!!!

Damn, I guess we should all just stop posting here because Pirks is the end-all, be-all of logical thinking... DAMN LET ME GO CUT MY HEAD OFF RIGHT NOW... I DONT DESERVE TO LIVE ON THE SAME PLANET AS THIS FUCKING GENIUS THAT EVERYONE ON THESE FORUMS RESPECTS SO MUCH!!! OMFG WTF BBQ!!!!!!!


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 3/31/09, Rating: 0
RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Whaaambulance on 4/1/09, Rating: 0
RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 4/1/09, Rating: -1
RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 4/1/09, Rating: 0
RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Whaaambulance on 4/1/2009 12:49:22 PM , Rating: 2
Awww you are so cute, Pirks. Look at you, nibbling on my nuts like a cute little Squirrel... awwww.

I feel so honored and loved by your gesture of caring. My nuts also thank you for the warm and cozy home you have given them in your mouth.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 4/1/09, Rating: 0
RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Whaaambulance on 4/1/2009 1:08:25 PM , Rating: 3
The difference between that article and your postings, is that unlike yourself, they look at the issue subjectively. They don't litter it with personal agenda, like yourself. And if you read back to any of my posts, I don't slam Apple, I slam zealots like yourself. I use Apple products, and I know the value they hold and know the benefits they have.

Apparently you didn't read through the entire article.

The retarded argument you keep trying to make is that somehow Apple hardware is better than PC hardware. That is not the case in any regard. Apple rolls everything up into an easy to use, and stable platform and wrapping it up in a pretty package. That is what you are paying for. Nothing more, nothing less.

quote:
Q. You’re going to try and convince us that Lauren should have bought the MacBook Pro, aren’t you?

A. No, no, no! She said she wanted a fast notebook with a 17-inch screen for under a grand. There are plenty of Windows machines that fit the bill, and no Mac that comes close. You can quibble with whether the HP Pavilion she bought was her best option, but unless you want to tell Lauren that she should settle for a 13-inch display instead of a 17-inch one, she unquestionably made the right decision in buying a Windows computer. There are tons of reasonable Windows laptops for under $1000, but only one Apple notebook in that range at all–the most basic MacBook.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 4/1/09, Rating: -1
RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Whaaambulance on 4/1/2009 1:17:07 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
I guess we can conclude our discussions on that note


Discussions don't happen with you, Pirks. I mean, I could seriously try to sit here and have a normal debate with you, but it quickly turns into a dirt-flinging contest because you aren't a subjective poster. If you look at any of my posts not directed at you, I speak subjectively and on target.

I don't think it is possible to have a normal conversation with you. You have some sort of demented issue with always trying to win an argument, even if you are proven wrong.

Here is a challenge to you:

Prove to this forum that you can carry on a reasonable discussion without pushing your own one-sided view to everything. If you can do that, I am sure everyone here might actually respect you. Because whether or not you think they are "Wintards" or "Idiots", matters not. They are the majority and they think you are a tool. Prove them wrong.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 4/1/09, Rating: 0
RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Whaaambulance on 4/1/2009 1:37:45 PM , Rating: 3
Thanks for proving my point, again.

I was extending an offer in sincerity, and you revert to name-calling and belittling.

This forum knows you and will always rate you down not because they are "Wintards", but because they are appropriately and accurately rating you based on your behavior. I am sure you will respond to this with something having to do with clowns or ":)))))". Be my guest. You are the king of your self-made hill.

In your world, you are right about everything, and nobody elses opinions matter. Is it really enjoyable to only count your opinion as the right one? Do you not see the value in respecting other peoples views? It must be lonely on your hill.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Whaaambulance on 4/1/2009 1:58:52 PM , Rating: 1
I think it is time to move on to another discussion. I don't think anyone else is reading this discussion other than us. I would like to see you post in something other than a "mac vs pc". That would be interesting.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 4/1/2009 3:14:52 PM , Rating: 1
In my world, clown, I'm getting downrated without counter arguments. People just don't like my posts because truth hurts their little rat brains living in their own little delusional worlds. And because it's truth they can't say anything reasonable against it.

Look at this one for example: http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=14642...

If you research what Unity3D is and what I said and WHEN I said this - you will find that I stated absolute hard _fact_. The Real One. Not a lie and not my own personal delusion. There is no way I could have lied on that one, even a dumb clown like you can see it for yourself.

Not that this will help ya sick downrating idiots :) I just enjoy posting truth here, like that post about Unity3D above, and then seeing torrent of cowards trying to hide from that truth by downrating me. You're so pathetic, Mr. Community Service Clown and your clones in this forum :))) Ha Ha Ha.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 4/1/2009 3:22:09 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
That would be interesting
Yeah, I've seen you crapping a lot in the CryENGINE 2 thread. Was NOT interesting at all. Your usual stink and personal attacks. Like you ever gonna change, cheapo clown :)))


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By omnicronx on 4/1/2009 4:45:36 PM , Rating: 2
I think both of you need to simmer down...

Pirks: you get rated down because none of your posts are 'worth reading'. Why would someone reply to something that was not worth reading in the first place

Wambulance: You are just enabling him, don't poke the bear..


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Whaaambulance on 4/1/2009 5:10:13 PM , Rating: 2
Omni, you will notice in quite a few posts I have attempted to move on, but this retard just keeps on going. It's definitely like watching the special olympics...

Maybe this thread might hit 500 posts! :P


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 4/1/2009 5:15:33 PM , Rating: 2
Since when did the truth become not worth reading?


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Whaaambulance on 4/1/2009 5:21:28 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Since when did the truth become not worth reading?


Clearly the truth and your opinion are one in the same.

You lack the ability to tactfully apply your opinions in this forum, therefore people disregard it and downrate you so they don't have to see your posts in the future.

Try a new approach. You should care about opinions if you are posting here. Afterall, isn't that the purpose of a forum? To share information? It isn't to push your own opinions and not respect others. So far, that is all you have done. You don't bring any value to a discussion. That is Omni's point.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 4/1/2009 5:41:46 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
the truth and your opinion are one in the same
Where do you see OPINION in this post: http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=14642...

I just stated the FACT about the software called Unity3D in there.

Are you trying to lie to me again? Trying to pass this FACT as my OPINION?

You're sooo dumb Whaaa, that's beyond anything I've seen here, even from your potatotwin :))
quote:
You lack the ability to tactfully apply your opinions in this forum
Do you think it's better to hide the truth than to post it here? Why? What would have happened if I hadn't posted the FACT about Unity3D? Would this forum be a better place? Why?


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 4/1/2009 5:22:05 PM , Rating: 1
Also in addition to my question about "truth not worth reading" above, did you notice, omni, how carefully Whaaaclown avoided this post of mine? -> http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=14691...

Must be a good way to shut his dirty hole in future threads :))


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Whaaambulance on 4/1/2009 5:25:29 PM , Rating: 2
Pirks... you are such a moron .. seriously. You are so ignorant it is astounding. Just because I don't respond to every piece of your incoherent babble, doesn't mean you have won anything.

This posts sums up every thread you have ever posted in. If I could make a poll for this, im sure 99.9% of all DT readers would agree.

http://www.dailytech.com/Article.aspx?newsid=14691...


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Whaaambulance on 4/1/2009 5:28:11 PM , Rating: 2
Commenting system here blows balls BTW...

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=14691...


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 4/1/2009 5:34:36 PM , Rating: 1
I see, posting links to your mindless Whaaagarbage again :)

Now, do you have something to say about the fact that I've been downrated for saying the truth in this post: http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=14642...


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Targon on 4/2/2009 8:58:37 AM , Rating: 2
Pirks,
What you miss is that since there are no lower cost Apple computers, and Apple will not allow clones, you end up with ONLY the high-cost, high-markup computers from Apple.

On the PC side, you can get a $500 computer, or you can get the same machine with extra features for more money. Most people do NOT need a finger print scanner on a laptop, and on the PC side, people have the option. At the same time, on a high-end Windows based laptop, you can look around for a computer with the same specs as the "premium" systems but at lower costs. Cyberpowerpc.com is a perfect example that you CAN get a computer that competes well with an Alienware for a much lower price on the PC side, but in the MacOS world, there are no options.

So, if you want to say that there are horribly marked up computers in the Windows world, you are right, but not EVERY computer in the Windows world is marked up like that. If you want to build your own computer that is just as fast as an expensive name-brand computer on the Windows side, you also have that option, but with MacOS, Apple locks the OS so you need to hack it to put it on a computer you build yourself.

Laptops are non-standard devices overall, so the option to build your own is virtually non-existent. But, there are a number of them that will at least allow SOME customization and they still cost less than what you get from Apple. If you compare low-end Mac to a comparable PC, the PC will be quite a bit cheaper, even with the same hardware specs.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 4/2/2009 12:12:12 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
there are no lower cost Apple computers
Yeah, I know there are brands that don't offer cheap goods. Sony, Apple, Lexus and such. Doesn't make sense to bash them anyway. They just serve their niche markets, what's so bad about that?
quote:
If you compare low-end Mac to a comparable PC, the PC will be quite a bit cheaper, even with the same hardware specs.
Your hardware specs never include case, cooling system and other pieces of hardware you'd like to sweep under the carpet to avoid noticing that they are quite different between Macs and PCs.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Whaaambulance on 4/2/2009 1:00:33 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Your hardware specs never include case, cooling system and other pieces of hardware you'd like to sweep under the carpet to avoid noticing that they are quite different between Macs and PCs


This argument is invalid for a couple of reasons. Number one, is that you aren't going to overclock your Mac and two, you aren't going to add-in your own components like a new motherboard or power supply. So with the Mac, you are stuck with one motherboard and power supply, so there is no need for better cooling or a better case. The cooling system on the Mac was designed for silence. It does a great job of it.

This is why Apple like to keep control on their hardware and software, because it creates a more stable environment through limiting hardware. If they control what hardware the Mac uses, then there is no concern over compatibility... it's built right into the OS.

There is nothing better about the Mac. What it brings is a stable platform through limited hardware configurations and a more aesthetic feel. Do I like OS X better than Vista? Of course. But, each platform has its uses for me. But your constant argument of "If you think that there isn't more than just looks that make Macs cost more" is invalid. There isn't one piece of hardware in any Mac that is better than any piece of available hardware for a PC. Apple rolls it up into a solid packaging and a good user experience.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 4/2/2009 2:26:42 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
There isn't one piece of hardware in any Mac that is better than any piece of available hardware for a PC
Think of multitouch trackpads on Macs - you can do things on them with gestures that you can't on a PC. Better hardware on a Mac? Yes. Think of cooling system on MacBooks. No holes on the bottom, unlike PCs. You can put your MacBook on any soft surface and it will not block incoming airflow, unlike on the PC. Better hardware on a Mac? Yes again.
quote:
you aren't going to overclock your Mac
Cooling system on a Mac is not about overclocking. It's about not having idiotic holes at the bottom of the case.
quote:
you aren't going to add-in your own components
Which makes Mac case smaller, thinner and lighter. Which is another example why Mac hardware is better. Of course it's not better for people who don't care about case size, thickness, looks and weight.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Whaaambulance on 4/2/2009 3:12:58 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Think of multitouch trackpads on Macs - you can do things on them with gestures that you can't on a PC. Better hardware on a Mac? Yes.


Wrong. It isn't 'better hardware'. It's a proprietary technology feature. The hardware that is hosting it isn't better than the hardware in any PC laptop. This is where you keep fumbling and not understanding the real differences.

quote:
Cooling system on a Mac is not about overclocking. It's about not having idiotic holes at the bottom of the case


You're right! It has holes in the front and in the back. What is your point about it being on the bottom? Infact, in a case with properly designed airflow, there would be only one intake and multiple exhausts (think positive air pressure). Whether the intake is on the front or the bottom makes no difference. This is what I mean, you throw out your personal opinions and base them as fact. There is no fact out there that says "Front intakes are better than bottom intakes" or "Bottom intake is bad". Please refrain from these types opinionated responses and people will definitely take you more seriously. Also calling things 'idiotic' doesn't help prove your case either.

quote:
Which makes Mac case smaller, thinner and lighter. Which is another example why Mac hardware is better. Of course it's not better for people who don't care about case size, thickness, looks and weight.


Again, you are trying to write off opinion as fact. FYI Lian Li makes a case very similar to the mac pro. Just as light, slim with good looks. Again, there is nothing 'better' about the mac hardware. Also there are plenty of cases out there that are lighter, smaller and look nicer (because looks are strictly based on personal taste, so again you are passing off your opinions as fact).

Do you understand your shortcomings now?


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 4/2/2009 3:34:54 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
It isn't 'better hardware'. It's a proprietary technology feature.
You think renaming it changes anything? Like "proprietary" hardware is anyhow different from "Mac" hardware? Of course it's proprietary, just like the proprietary PC touchpads. So what? I don't see your point.
quote:
Whether the intake is on the front or the bottom makes no difference.
No, it does make a difference. When you put notebook on a soft surface it will block incoming airflow if the holes are at the bottom, like on a PC notebook. This is not the case for Mac, because Mac doesn't have those damn holes at the bottom! So nothing will block the incoming airflow if you put Mac notebook on a soft surface! Got it now?
quote:
Lian Li makes a case very similar to the mac pro
How about iMac or MacBook? Does Lian Li make cases very similar to these? ;-)


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Whaaambulance on 4/2/2009 3:41:17 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
You think renaming it changes anything? Like "proprietary" hardware is anyhow different from "Mac" hardware?


The technology is proprietary, not the hardware. Meaning the software backing it. Maybe that wasn't clear.

quote:
No, it does make a difference. When you put notebook on a soft surface it will block incoming airflow if the holes are at the bottom, like on a PC notebook. This is not the case for Mac, because Mac doesn't have those damn holes at the bottom! So nothing will block the incoming airflow if you put Mac notebook on a soft surface! Got it now?


So what you are saying is that PC cases with holes on the bottom are not propped up on legs that do not hinder airflow? Think about what you are saying. Also, take more time before responding so you fully understand what you are posting. See the following article with a case that has bottom holes: http://www.anandtech.com/casecoolingpsus/showdoc.a...

By the holes being on the bottom, it doesn't impede airflow. The only downside to holes being on the bottom is dust collection, which if you have a dust filter on your intake ports, which I do on all my cases, this is a non-issue. So your argument that holes on the bottom are inferior to holes on the front is invalid.

quote:
How about iMac or MacBook? Does Lian Li make cases very similar to these? ;-)


They make towers, mainly. But there are very nice all-in-ones out there as well. Again, I appreciate Apples eye for aesthetics. They make great looking cases. But calling them 'better' is still a matter of your opinion.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 4/2/2009 4:04:03 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
The technology is proprietary, not the hardware. Meaning the software backing it.
But the Mac touchpad is different from PC touchpads, it's visible even just by looking at it. How come you're trying to push your agenda that PC touchpads are exactly the same as Mac ones when Mac touchpads don't even have BUTTONS to begin with!
quote:
So what you are saying is that PC cases with holes on the bottom are not propped up on legs that do not hinder airflow?
I was talking about the notebook cooling, not the desktop cooling.
quote:
your argument that holes on the bottom are inferior to holes on the front is invalid.
Once you realize that I was talking about notebooks you'll understand that you were wrong.
quote:
calling them 'better' is still a matter of your opinion
Calling them 'overpriced' is still a matter of opinion too.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Whaaambulance on 4/2/2009 4:11:37 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
But the Mac touchpad is different from PC touchpads, it's visible even just by looking at it. How come you're trying to push your agenda that PC touchpads are exactly the same as Mac ones when Mac touchpads don't even have BUTTONS to begin with!


Right, the only difference on the hardware side, is that instead of there being buttons on the outside, they are on the inside. Doesn't mean it's 'better'. That is still opinion.

quote:
I was talking about the notebook cooling, not the desktop cooling.


That's fine. I was referring to desktops. Either way, if the cooling on non-mac laptops was inferior then I don't think they would last very long. Most laptops have passive cooling on top of active cooling. They are meant to withstand higher than normal heat. Also if you think that because Macbooks dont have holes on the bottom that they run cooler, you are mistaken. I should know, I have one. They get VERY hot on the bottom. I bought a laptop cooler for my macbook because it's an issue to me to have the case get so hot. ALL Laptops get hot.

quote:
Once you realize that I was talking about notebooks you'll understand that you were wrong


Great, you are right. It was a misunderstanding. You get +1 e-peen point. Grats.

quote:
Calling them 'overpriced' is still a matter of opinion too.


Seeing as I actually buy Apple products, for me that isn't an issue. But you cannot argue other peoples points of being budget-minded and for basically the same configuration (remove aesthetics and looks and personal agenda for a moment) as the macbook for a much lower price.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 4/2/2009 5:02:47 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
the only difference on the hardware side, is that instead of there being buttons on the outside, they are on the inside
If you wanna stay so formal you can call a mix of Mac software and hardware better than the mix of PC software and hardware. I don't mind :)
quote:
ALL Laptops get hot
True, but not all laptops suffer from decreased incoming airflow after being put on a soft surface. Only the PC ones suffer, not Macs, which explains my argument about Mac cooling system being better.
quote:
you cannot argue other peoples points of being budget-minded and for basically the same configuration (remove aesthetics and looks and personal agenda for a moment) as the macbook for a much lower price
I don't mind budget minded users, but only when they refrain from bashing premium brands like Apple.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By rj78 on 4/3/2009 5:03:04 PM , Rating: 1
HAHHAHAHAH!!! Look at you guys! Why don't you guys fuck eachother and just get it over with??? LOLOLOLOOLOL

Seriously Pirks, every post of yours has this persons name in it.. like wtf DUDE we wanna see him pump you in the ass already!! hahahahha you know u want him inside of youuuu

500 posts wooooohooooo

thanks for all the laughs Pirks, you are the best comedian yet!!!!!


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By rj78 on 4/3/2009 4:57:45 PM , Rating: 1
Hhahahhaha holy shit that was good lollllllllllll!!!!!

Why isn't pirks here yet????

My coworkers need MOAR LAUGHSSSSSSS


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 3/28/09, Rating: -1
RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 3/27/09, Rating: -1
RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Whaaambulance on 3/27/2009 12:49:48 PM , Rating: 3
Uh oh... more car comparisons incoming!!!


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By mondo1234 on 3/27/2009 12:57:07 PM , Rating: 5
but wait, there's more,
Pirks is going to compare Microsoft to McDonalds hamburgers now with their billions served.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By SavagePotato on 3/27/2009 3:49:27 PM , Rating: 5
Pirk's perpetual lexus defense is sort of on par with the chewbacca defense as far as relevance goes.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By just4U on 3/27/2009 5:07:27 PM , Rating: 2
It's like comparing a $250 PC to a $1000 PC .. or in Apples case a $1000 Mac and $3000 Mac (heh)


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By retrospooty on 3/27/2009 12:57:15 PM , Rating: 4
Lexus and Chevy are very different cars with very VERY different reliablity and longevity.

Mac and PC use the exact same CPU and chipset.

Your comparison is totally bunk.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Whaaambulance on 3/27/2009 1:00:47 PM , Rating: 5
Be careful, Spoot... you are using logic... that kind of stuff doesn't fly with Pirks!


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 3/27/09, Rating: -1
RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By ExarKun333 on 3/27/2009 1:12:49 PM , Rating: 5
You apparently know nothing about computer, please go troll someone else.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 3/27/09, Rating: -1
RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By piroroadkill on 3/27/2009 1:31:44 PM , Rating: 5
HEY GUYS WE HAVE A FUCKING EXPERT HERE, HE CAN LINE UP COLOURED SOCKETS AND USE A SCREWDRIVER AND PURCHASE THINGS ONLINE, STOP THE FUCKING PRESSES, HE MUST BE A CUNTING GENIUS


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Whaaambulance on 3/27/2009 1:35:14 PM , Rating: 5
10/10


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 3/27/09, Rating: -1
RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Whaaambulance on 3/27/2009 1:53:32 PM , Rating: 5
I think his point was, it doesn't take a computer expert to do this. If you can read directions, you could probably assemble a PC.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 3/27/09, Rating: -1
RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Whaaambulance on 3/27/2009 2:51:23 PM , Rating: 4
According to you, anyone who disagrees with your flawed logic, is a 'liar'.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 3/27/09, Rating: -1
RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By akosixiv on 3/27/2009 3:44:40 PM , Rating: 5
Basically, your knowledge of computers does not extend to other parts of human knowledge. So your argument is moot.

There are such things which could not be compared to cars. Simple contrivances such as prices differences cannot just be explained via comparisons via cars.

Next time please explain in a better fashion so that people may take you seriously.

When my brother was 5 years old, he could already disassemble his own PC and reassemble it by himself. So knowledge of building your own PC is not that big of a deal.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 3/27/09, Rating: -1
RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Hieyeck on 3/27/2009 2:58:48 PM , Rating: 2
Be nice, reading the f--ine manual still makes him smarter than half the world.

Wait, never mind, this thread is comedy gold.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By omnicronx on 3/28/09, Rating: 0
RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 3/28/09, Rating: -1
RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Targon on 4/2/2009 9:51:58 AM , Rating: 2
Anyone who would spend the insane amount of money on an Alienware machine is in the same world as those who spend an insane amount of money on a Mac. Just because there are overpriced Windows based computers does NOT mean that all Windows based computers with the same specs will be overpriced.

Pirks, this is where your difference of opinion with others comes into play. You come from the perspective of someone who is willing to spend two to three times the price of components for a computer, so a Mac does not seem like it is overpriced. For the rest of us, we look at the cost of a machine, compare it to what we would get, and if the price/performance ratio is not acceptable, we don't CARE if we don't have the fastest machine, because the price to get that machine just isn't worth it.

Oh, and for the record, Dell is NOT cool, and hasn't been for a long time now. If you can afford the cost of a "cool Dell", you would be better off buying a custom built machine and saving yourself a lot of headaches.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 4/2/2009 12:20:44 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Anyone who would spend the insane amount of money on an Alienware machine is in the same world as those who spend an insane amount of money on a Mac.
Insane amount of money? You mean like $1400 for Alienware M17, a high-end 17" gaming laptop with latest Penryn, DDR3 and Radeon 3870 inside? Are you kidding? Tell me you tried to make a stupid joke.
quote:
You come from the perspective of someone who is willing to spend two to three times the price of components for a computer
You are a liar. You will not find a brand new high-end 17" gaming notebook with the same specs as my Alienware M17 for half its price, i.e. for $700. I know this for a fact. Keep lying, whatever :)
quote:
Dell is NOT cool
I don't buy computers because they are cool. You just imagined some stupid things about me, probably inspired by Wintard trolls abundant in this thread (Whaaa and his potatotwin are the prime examples).


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Whaaambulance on 4/2/2009 12:45:16 PM , Rating: 1
Bro, seriously... avoid Pirks like the plague. You cannot reason with him. Here you make valid points, and he comes back with insults and forces his opinions as facts. Slowly I am beginning to realize that I should simply stop responding to him. I feel I have spent far too much time attempting to save this worthless pile of shit that Pirks is.

If you can point out 1 post of his that anyone has found informative or valuable, please show me. I would give you $100 for it.

He isn't worth your time. Bottom line.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 4/2/2009 2:39:37 PM , Rating: 2
Come on Whaaa, you started with a good post above about Mac cases and cooling and now you're back to your standard clownish performance? What's wrong with ya? You look like a drunkard trying to get away from that sweet bottle. Stop your clownisms, get serious :) You almost managed to do this above. One more post like that and no clownisms - and you'll get back to mentally healthy state, woohoo!! :))


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Whaaambulance on 4/2/2009 3:02:18 PM , Rating: 2
Actually, this post was prior to that one. Keep calling me whatever you want and saying what you will. Doesn't matter. Nobody respects you on this forum. It doesn't make sense why you don't notice this and take action to correct it. I think you just enjoy trolling and arguing for the sake of argument.

It's like everything you are calling me, is what you are yourself. You are mental based on your posts here.

Prove me wrong.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 4/2/2009 3:46:31 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Prove me wrong
Easy :)) You carefully avoided this post of mine: http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=14691... because you're sooo afraid of truth :))


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Whaaambulance on 4/2/2009 3:49:35 PM , Rating: 2
I really don't get your point. Where did I avoid your 'truth'? You are posting something that I probably didn't care to read about in the first place.

So you post some fact that you find on the internet and boast about how I avoid the truth about your posts? I really don't get you. What is your issue, exactly?

I know that you cannot stand being proven wrong, and want to be right about everything, but believe it or not, you aren't. And believe it or not, but there are people out there that are smarter than you.

Seriously... relax dude...


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 4/2/2009 4:45:46 PM , Rating: 2
It's not my issue, I just proved to you that I got downrated for posting the truth, the hard fact. Say bye bye to your argument about my rating. If I'm getting -1 rating for posting the truth like that post above - this is an indication of high quality of my posts here. Got it now?


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Whaaambulance on 4/2/2009 5:01:55 PM , Rating: 2
I could begin to explain why just about everything you are saying here is just wrong on so many levels, but I really don't think it will matter.

You are always going to be right in your own mind. Your opinions will continue to be the only ones that matter to you. You will continue passing off your opinions as fact and people will continue to downrate you because you will continue to bring no value to any discussion.

I am moving on to another discussion.

Later.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 4/2/2009 5:10:38 PM , Rating: 2
Escaping discussion at the right moment (i.e. when hit by hard cold facts) is the important trait of every forum clown. Glad you learned it well, Whaaa :) Less lies and other garbage from you in this thread, this is good!


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By rj78 on 4/3/2009 4:59:57 PM , Rating: 2
Bwahahhaha!!! You are our new forum clown PIRKS!!!!

Come on GUUUURL!!! Make us laugh hahahhah!!!

Shake them sexy legs Pirks shake them!!! I like my women large too, you are too sexy!!!


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By PrezWeezy on 4/3/2009 7:24:17 PM , Rating: 1
Someone actually employs you? They actually give you money? Must be a government worker...


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 4/3/2009 8:37:24 PM , Rating: 2
I won't give you an opportunity to envy me, don't even ask, lama :)))


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By PrezWeezy on 4/7/2009 8:23:21 PM , Rating: 2
I promise it's not envy. It's amazement.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Cincybeck on 3/30/2009 8:39:16 AM , Rating: 2
Or cars. If you're going to compare. Lexus is owned by Toyota. If you open a hood of a Lexus you will see a Toyota engine. Usually a tuned higher output engine as well. Also I believe the newer Lexus hybrids are the only Lexus cars that feature a 4 cylinder engine. The majority are 6 cylinder engines, which provide a smoother, more comfortable ride, with more power. You could also do the same with Infiniti and Nissan, Integra with Honda, Lincoln with Ford. So yea you'll pay more for a "Luxury vehicle", but you usually get a higher output engine with that as well. Which pretty much invalidates your argument considering Apple doesn't provide faster, higher clocked components. So the only thing you're getting is a fancy case with a logo and OS X. It doesn't take much money for a logo. So you're paying $500 or more for OS X making it the highest priced OS for a consumer computer, and people bitch about Windows being overpriced. Heh... =D


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By trisct on 3/30/2009 11:14:09 AM , Rating: 3
Except Apple doesn't supply faster, higher clocked components. The fastest parts out there come with Windows, as far as CPU goes. And, as for the rest of the components, how about GPUs? Apple never has any better than second-rate graphics chip choices available in their boxes, although they are starting to learn that lesson.

What Apple does give you is custom designed motherboards that fit into a nice looking box. Not faster, just prettier.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By trisct on 3/30/2009 11:19:18 AM , Rating: 2
And so I agree - sounded like I was arguing after I read this again...


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 3/30/09, Rating: -1
RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By fownde on 3/27/2009 1:25:41 PM , Rating: 5
See here's where you do have a point. They both use a similar engine, 4 tires etc. Why do they pay more for a Lexus? Because of the NAME. Why do you pay more for a mac? The NAME.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 3/27/09, Rating: -1
RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By SavagePotato on 3/27/2009 3:57:36 PM , Rating: 5
Actually they pay more for several reasons. The components do actually cost more, the production is most likely more limited and sales are lesser. Do they scale perfectly and are most luxury cars actually priced accordingly based on their cost to make? no. However they do cost more to make.

Apple how ever does not have access to some magical parts that justify a 100% price increase. You can build pcs using the best quality and highly priced components on the market and still build them resoundingly cheaper than a mac, which in terms of quality of components and reliability is no better than a dell, or hp, or whatever.

So while yes luxury cars do have some basis for their price, the mac does not.

Waste of time telling a buffoon like pirks that though since he is convinced they do. It's about on par with convincing Hitler the Jews are okay. Everyone knows he's wrong but it ain't gonna happen.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 3/27/09, Rating: -1
RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Whaaambulance on 3/27/2009 4:27:51 PM , Rating: 5
In every article you post in, I slam-dunk your face in your own feces. Completely destroying your flawed logic and inane babble in every thread. All the while being rated to 5 while you get downrated to -1 in EVERY POST.

Yet somehow you continue to post, as if assuming people actually give a rats ass about your opinions. Your ignorance barrier has got to be at least 20 feet thick and made of 100% pure dumb.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Doormat on 3/27/09, Rating: -1
RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Whaaambulance on 3/27/2009 4:53:57 PM , Rating: 5
Did you even bother reading my posts before you go spouting off your bs? Are you really saying that I am saying that Apple doesn't innovate? No, I didn't say that anywhere.

quote:
Just because there are more of you


More of what? People that use their brains and not post inaccurate babble to clutter the forum with?


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Doormat on 3/27/09, Rating: -1
RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Doormat on 3/27/09, Rating: -1
RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Whaaambulance on 3/27/2009 5:20:04 PM , Rating: 5
quote:
So what part of my post was inaccurate? Point it out...


I just pointed it out where I asked you to find where I was dogging apple in ANY of my posts...

Learn to read. Just take a few breaths before you post. Take your time, don't type angry, son.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Doormat on 3/27/09, Rating: -1
RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Whaaambulance on 3/27/2009 5:29:38 PM , Rating: 3
I didn't dog Apple, you moron. I dogged YOU for being a moron.

READ, son... read.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Doormat on 3/27/09, Rating: -1
RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Whaaambulance on 3/27/2009 5:43:55 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
So the link to the Maddox page isn't a dis on Apple? Whatever man.


Again, please go back and read it again. I said "Apple Lovers"... meaning apple fanatics that fight tooth and nail over stupid arguments.

I have nothing against Apple. I do have alot against Apple Zealots...


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 3/27/09, Rating: -1
RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Whaaambulance on 3/27/2009 5:18:34 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
More of braindead lie-spreading clowns like myself, Whaaa. I apologize for wasting yours and others in this article's time by posting my mentally handicapped nonsense. I digress.


Why thank you, Pirks. I appreciate it, and so do the rest of the readers here.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 3/29/09, Rating: -1
RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By just4U on 3/27/2009 5:04:21 PM , Rating: 4
No one says that Apple doesn't have some good points only that their computers are insanely overpriced. Typically people buy a Inferior product at a substantially higher cost and Microsoft's finally calling them on it. Bout damn time to as quite a few Mac user's that bought their pc's on a whim could benifit from having their eyes opened.

That's the whole basis of this entire discussion.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 3/27/09, Rating: -1
RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By just4U on 3/27/2009 5:37:26 PM , Rating: 2
Im part of that market Pirks. I may not be "APPLE" but I build a fair number of computers each year and advise 100s more on what route to take. Because of my overall impressions about the Mac and it's "VALUE" I never suggest it and typically discourage people from buying them.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 3/27/09, Rating: -1
RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By just4U on 3/28/2009 12:20:35 AM , Rating: 2
Well we are on a forum with quite a few knowledgable people kicking about and posting right? Bitching about the industry is a given amongst your peers as well as those looking to learn more. As a side note, I see what you do on these apple oriented threads and it spurs debate. That's a GOOD thing. Liven's it all up and gets others posting and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Jacerie on 3/27/2009 10:31:40 PM , Rating: 5
whoa... a Pirks post not at -1...

this error has been corrected.

please continue.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By aegisofrime on 3/28/2009 12:32:28 AM , Rating: 5
Can we have a -2 rating specially for Pirks?


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Doormat on 3/27/09, Rating: -1
RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By SavagePotato on 3/27/2009 5:20:13 PM , Rating: 3
The last gen of macbooks were still starting at 3000 dollars and they didn't have a magical unibody aluminum chassis. But ooooh sorry they use space age plastics and somehow their trackpad and keyboard are worth a thousand dollars more. um no.

Their price point is not based on quality or cost to build, it is based on what sheeple will pay to fool themselves.

How many articles have there been about quality control problems from apple. Faulty mag safe adapters, problems with pretty much every ipod, the iphone, their quality is no better than any other.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Whaaambulance on 3/27/2009 5:22:28 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
The last gen of macbooks were still starting at 3000 dollars


I will need to correct you there. I have the last gen and I paid $1999.99. for my Macbook Pro.

Just thought I would point that out. And in terms of reliability, I am pretty rough on my Macbook and have not had any issues to speak of.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By SavagePotato on 3/27/2009 5:36:45 PM , Rating: 3
I was referring to the 17 inch lineup to which I recently compared my 17 inch dell with better specs in every single category, for half the price. But of course according to good ol apple shill pirks, a mac will outperform a pc with better specs with it's super mac sauce.

Regardless however if you have had issues, there is no denying that with every apple product released there is inevitably some kind of article about users plagued with some issue. Recently the hosed graphics on the new unibody series comes to mind. Good choice with nvidia by the way there apple. As we know apple only chooses the absolute top quality components, clearly why they would go with nvidia an their infamous failing crap.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Doormat on 3/27/09, Rating: -1
RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By SavagePotato on 3/27/2009 5:45:15 PM , Rating: 5
Canadian site, 17 inch macbook pro is 2999.00 starting. Not all the world deals in US currency.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Doormat on 3/27/09, Rating: -1
RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By SavagePotato on 3/27/2009 5:55:30 PM , Rating: 5
I was accurate, I quote prices in the currency that is familiar to me on a day to day basis.

Maybe you should apply for a job on red eye on fox since you have a problem with Canada.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Doormat on 3/27/09, Rating: 0
RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Whaaambulance on 3/27/2009 5:45:44 PM , Rating: 5
quote:
The 17" MBP is $2799 on Apple's website


It's still close to $3000.00, which I believe was his point.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Doormat on 3/27/09, Rating: -1
RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By SavagePotato on 3/27/2009 5:52:54 PM , Rating: 5
I didn't mean close to, I meant three thousand dollars, $2999.00 Canadian at apple.ca, starting price.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Whaaambulance on 3/27/2009 5:52:44 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
If he meant close, he should have wrote close, instead you're making excuses for him.


You seriously have insecurity issues, man. You act like everyone is against you. You don't need to get so defensive, it's making you look bad.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Doormat on 3/27/09, Rating: -1
RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Whaaambulance on 3/27/2009 6:00:44 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Thats it, attack me personally. Because you don't have anything left in your clip.


You are pointing out his mistakes... just like I have been pointing out yours in your last 4 posts directed at me. Am I going to sit here and babble on and on about your inaccuracies? No. So get off his.

And for the record, im not sticking up for anyone. I fight for justice. I beat down forumtards that deserve it. Don't be a forumtard and you wont have to deal with my wrath.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Doormat on 3/27/09, Rating: -1
RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Whaaambulance on 3/27/2009 6:13:49 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
So you're a super hero now eh?


Now? Pfft... have been for years!

:)


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 3/27/09, Rating: -1
RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Whaaambulance on 3/27/2009 6:28:51 PM , Rating: 3
Nowhere near as soft and cuddly as your over-usage of smileys and LOLzzz.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By SavagePotato on 3/27/2009 6:04:40 PM , Rating: 3
No, it's not a lie, it's a fact. the only error was simply forgetting to put 17 inch in the sentence. If you couldn't figure that part out for yourself in the first place and need to make a 10 post issue out of it calling someone a liar you are just being a douche.

Furthermore, quoting the price in ones own currency does not make one a liar, dumbass.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Doormat on 3/27/09, Rating: -1
RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By SavagePotato on 3/27/2009 5:51:00 PM , Rating: 3
I am Canadian, it is exactly 3000 dollars, well 2999.00 if you want to nitpick. The only thing I neglected to point out is I was referring to the 17 inch macbook pro.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 3/27/09, Rating: -1
RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By SavagePotato on 3/27/2009 6:09:54 PM , Rating: 4
quote:
Another lie. Your Dell is not as thin and light and battery efficient as MacBook Pro 17". Its trackpad is worse, OS is more prone to malware infestation, and other minor things like that. If you are too blind to notice these details - doesn't mean EVERYONE is as blind as you.


Pirks, let me tell you, that better be one gold plated goddamn trackpad for $1500 dollars.

Do not even go there on malware. Vista64 is far far far and away more secure than mac os. Perhaps you should take a look at the pwn2own competition for this year. The pure outright falsehood that mac os is more secure has been disproven HARD. In fact it is so insecure firefox on the mac fares worse than the PC because of the os insecurities.

In addition dimensions weight and battery life also do not equate to 1500 dollars in price increase. If they did, by your logic the macbook air is worth what $10000?


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 3/27/09, Rating: -1
RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By SavagePotato on 3/27/2009 6:35:39 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
Perhaps YOU should take a look at 10 million PCs infected by Downadup and THEN re-tell me your fairy tale about poor Mac security and uberexcellent Windows security:) I'm all listening!


Let's say it together, security through obscurity is not security...

And that ties in with the other tidbit of reality. The market that is 90+% pc based does not agree. That's right the almighty market pirks. Not to mention the fact apple has slumped hard in the face of recession as well.

How that ties in is that yes, when you have over 90% of the market, the hackers tend to target you. once again, go read the results of this years pwn2own, the mac went down in seconds, yes seconds, to a hacker.

Unlike you i read the interview with that hacker who views mac as a joke, and points out the inadequacy of osx's security in comparison to windows.

The fact that mac os is so small potatoes that noone WANTS to write malware for it is the only reason it's not getting beaten into the ground by all it's security flaws.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 3/27/09, Rating: -1
RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Whaaambulance on 3/27/2009 6:40:03 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
Perhaps YOU should take a look at 10 million PCs infected by Downadup and THEN re-tell me your fairy tale about poor Mac security and uberexcellent Windows security:) I'm all listening!


Sigh... another retardfest of posts by Pirks.

This cannot be any simpler (except for you, maybe). It's called 'marketshare'. Why would someone who is writing a virus want to only affect such a teeny-tiny market of users? No, they are going to go for the big dog, which is Microsoft. If Apple was in Microsofts place, it would have the exact same issues.

For the love of Jeebus... quit being so retarded.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 3/27/09, Rating: -1
RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By PhoenixKnight on 3/28/2009 2:23:00 AM , Rating: 5
quote:
But Apple is not in MS's shoes yet, that's why Macs are safer. Like I said - users do not care about _why_ Macs are safer


That may be true for now, but if Apple does in fact weather the recession better than PC makers and manage to gain some marketshare, then I can assure you they won't stay safe for much longer. Also, as Microsoft increases the security of Windows more and more, hackers may decide that hacking Windows isn't worth their time and go after Macs instead.

Unfortunately, Apple doesn't have a very good track record when it comes to patching vulnerabilities in a timely manner, so when the day does come, they will be ill prepared to combat the problem. It only takes one security hole and one motivated hacker (or team of hakers) to do major damage.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 3/28/2009 10:07:26 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
That may be true for now, but if Apple does in fact weather the recession better than PC makers and manage to gain some marketshare, then I can assure you they won't stay safe for much longer
That's a big IF. Existence of epidemic worm infections under Windows does not reliably predict future existence of the same scale infections for Macs.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By eldakka on 3/29/2009 10:09:01 PM , Rating: 1
Err, that should be 10 million Microsoft Windows based computers that are affected.

Or are you telling me if I installed Windows on a Mac it would be 'safe'? Or if I installed Mac OS on a 'PC' that it would be vulnerable? Or I could put Linux on either, or Solaris on the 'PC', or numerous other operating systems.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By adiposity on 3/30/2009 12:11:47 PM , Rating: 3
I believe macs are overpriced. However, laptops are a different market than desktops. You make fun of charging 1500 for a superior (not saying it is superior, but still) trackpad. Well, unless you can find someone who will replace the trackpad in your HP laptop for $1500 with a mac one or something similar, aren't you kind of making his argument for him?

Laptops are still in the realm of "total" products, like cars and mp3 players. You can't easily upgrade or convert them, for the most part. Thus, $1500 may easily be worth it for someone who cares about the quality of the built-in trackpad. Or the thin form factor. Or the long battery life. Or the "sleek" look. Or whatever. You can't just take a PC laptop and change out the parts that you like in a Mac. HP and Dell are getting close with some of their models but for now, if you can afford it, there are certain things you can only get with a Mac.

The Lexus comparison isn't so bad, here. Sure, Lexuses (I have one) are demonstrably more reliable and higher quality than some other cars. But are they $20,000 more reliable??? Most owners would probably say, "no." But they don't care, they are willing to pay the extra money to get the things they like built-in and a quality product. So what if they could buy two GMs over the same 10 years they drive the Lexus? They like the Lexus, and there is no way to turn a GM into a Lexus.

And, there is no way to turn an HP/Sony/Dell/Lenovo into a Mac. For one thing, being able to run both OSes gives the Mac an edge that is pretty tough to surpass or quantify. Everything that you love about Vista/XP can be on there, as well as the Mac side. Add to that the things that people like about Macs, and you have definitely added some value over "exactly the same CPU and chipset" that others have complained about. Is it $1500? Well, I guess that depends if you need/want Mac OS or the "cool" factor of the machine.

Personally, I own a Lenovo and think I get a way better value out of it. Dedicated function keys, built-in EVDO, a real delete key, a right click button (two, actually), and Windows, which I use. And I don't care that it doesn't look super cool. But clearly I am not the market for a Mac. This doesn't make it stupid to buy one, though.

-Dan


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 3/27/09, Rating: -1
RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Yaron on 3/28/2009 5:48:43 AM , Rating: 1
By the way guys, wanna hear something about overpricing?

In Israel (where I live), these are the prices for Macs:

The entry model Quad Mac Pro costs $3,547 USD
(compared to $2,499 USD in the US)

The entry model Octa Mac Pro costs $4,642 USD
(compared to $3,299 USD in the US)

The entry model MacBook Pro costs $2,618 USD
(compared to $1,999 USD in the US)

The entry model MacBook (aluminum) costs $1,714 USD
(compared to $1,299 USD in the US)

How's that for overpricing?!?!?

And know this, the frustrating thing is that Israel is the land of WinPCs. We can buy them dirt cheap over here. It's cheaper then Dell.

Someone PLEASE send me a greencard so I can live in the US and buy my Macs there!
:D


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Alexstarfire on 3/27/2009 9:26:41 PM , Rating: 3
Well, I can point out the multitouch issue. Others can use it because Apple won't let them, not because they just don't. Also, unibody case? whoopy doo. Everything else seems fine. Can't say much about batteries or the 9400M. Although I can get something better than a 9400M, granted it going to be expensive since they don't let you customize notebooks like that. Comparing notebooks is hard because even PC notebooks like a lot of customization.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Cincybeck on 3/30/2009 9:02:20 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
Where are the multitouch chips enabling trackpads to use multi-finger gestures?


Apple has a patent on this, and has already threatened litigation against companies who attempt to implement it. That's why the Google G1 phone doesn't have multitouch.

quote:
Where are the other notebooks with a 9400M inside them?


Why would you want a 9400M when there is next gen GTX 280M notebooks already out? Not to mention a lot of companies have been shipping with 9800M chips for a while now?

You do win on the unibody aluminum case however. I'll give you that.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 3/27/09, Rating: -1
RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By matt0401 on 3/28/09, Rating: 0
RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 3/28/09, Rating: -1
RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By nugundam93 on 3/27/2009 1:40:39 PM , Rating: 1
given that apple now uses the same hardware such as processor and all, i guess the better analogy would be the price in paying for a Toyota Altezza vs. Lexus IS. powered by the same parts but just different aesthetics and all.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By retrospooty on 3/27/09, Rating: 0
RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 3/27/09, Rating: -1
RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By tastyratz on 3/27/09, Rating: 0
RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 3/27/09, Rating: -1
RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By tastyratz on 3/27/09, Rating: 0
RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 3/27/09, Rating: -1
RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By SavagePotato on 3/27/2009 5:58:47 PM , Rating: 5
What the entire community is telling you with the torrent of -1 posts you have, is that when you learn that a computer is not a car we will talk.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 3/27/09, Rating: -1
RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By SavagePotato on 3/27/2009 6:52:26 PM , Rating: 4
Well, let's seeeeeeee...

You post on average like 30 to 50 times in every thread with your nonsense rants. They all manage to get rated down to -1... That is one hell of alot of zealots that are out to get you.

That means everyone is wrong and you are the only one that is right. Isn't that like a sign of some psychological disorder? yes you manage to get like a couple hundred negative ratings on EVERY thread because they are out to get you!!

Get your tinfoil hat on and get in the corner pirks, or maybe just stop going full retard every thread and you might not get rated lower than Hitler would.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 3/27/09, Rating: -1
RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Whaaambulance on 3/27/2009 6:56:18 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
Doormat, kelmon, robinthakur and michael2k are prime examples


Prime examples of forumtards like yourself. Every one of them are people who happened to agree with something you might have said. Either that or they are Apple Zealots.

So what you are doing is basically calling almost all the users on this forum idiots? Hmmm that's interesting.. because it's totally impossible that YOU might be the retard.... hmmmmm....


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 3/27/09, Rating: -1
RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Whaaambulance on 3/28/2009 2:47:14 AM , Rating: 3
Back to the same "I know you are but what am I" antics I see. It's good to know that you are at least reliable in that you will always be an idiot.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 3/28/09, Rating: -1
RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By tastyratz on 3/27/2009 6:41:07 PM , Rating: 2
you know whats equally as relevant?
potatoes.

Stop hyperfocusing on an inapplicable argument and learn to read.

Key words of my post were "reputable competitor" and "all features being the same". Apple is not developing some revolutionary hardware, they are making hardware based largely on intel draft spec - Should I have needed to delve into a list of features for you to wrap around it? There is no special feature or design element inside the box - only outside.

Contrary to your belief apple is NOT the only company who knows how to make computer parts

The $8.00 bottle of water is a perfect argument. The bottle changes and the label is different but in the end filtered pure h20 is pure h20 any way you cut it. Maybe you get to tell people you drink apple water (even though you clearly drink the apple "kool aid") but in the end its still water no matter which major reputable manufacturer bottles it.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By petesonic on 3/27/2009 2:53:26 PM , Rating: 1
I was under the impression that the Altezza was the name used in Japan and was not sold elsewhere while it was sold under the Name Lexus IS in Europe and America. So I odn't think that you could make a price comparison due to the different markets. Is there a price difference?


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By adiposity on 3/30/2009 12:13:44 PM , Rating: 1
Good comparison for IS300. IS350/250, doesn't exist.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By retrospooty on 3/27/2009 1:50:13 PM , Rating: 3
HEre we go.

No, they don't use the same engine. Totally different and unique designs. Designed by different engineers, and built with different components. Different specs and reliability. Mac and PC all use the exact same Intel chips built in the exact same factories.

What are you trying to prove? You're doing a piss poor job of it.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 3/27/09, Rating: -1
RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By retrospooty on 3/27/2009 2:08:59 PM , Rating: 5
No, I know exactly what a personal computer consists of. I was responding to your retarded comment above that comparing a Mac to a PC is like a Lexus to a Chevy. Mac and PC are FAR more similar than a Lexus to a Chevy.

A Lexus costs far more than a Chevy because it is a FAR better car and costs FAR more to produce.

A Mac is not a far better computer than a PC and it does NOT cost more to produce.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 3/27/09, Rating: -1
RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Whaaambulance on 3/27/2009 3:04:14 PM , Rating: 5
I don't get why you are contradicting yourself. In other posts you claim "Apple uses the same hardware as PC's". But yet here you are arguing that they are different.

Is Apple going to disclose who supplies their motherboards? Because aside from that, everything in the Mac is the exact same hardware you could find in any PC. It's not made by Apple, it's made by some chinese company. I guarantee it's a large motherboard manufacturer like Asus or MSI that makes the exact same hardware for PC's.

Apple is all about aesthetics and they do it well. But saying that Apple is higher quality is absurd. What are you comparing it to? Dell, HP, Acer? The range of PC hardware is to broad for you to make such a simple comparison. The motherboard I use in my system is the absolute top-of-the-line that Asus makes to date. The motherboard itself was $400.

Can you even tell me anything about the motherboard in a mac pro? Who makes it? What type of capacitors does it use? I know mine use 100% Japanese made ones that are the best on the planet for consumer boards. Can you say the same about the mac motherboards? I bet not. I bet you don't know jack about what it is made of or who makes it.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 3/27/09, Rating: -1
RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Whaaambulance on 3/27/2009 3:23:51 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
The only one here who seems to understand you.... is you.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By retrospooty on 3/27/2009 3:24:56 PM , Rating: 3
Foxconn makes the motherboards. And as one of the largest manufacturers in the world, you can bet on the fact that Apple gets major price cuts for the volume they do. I have spent many years in manufacturing and supply chain management as well as reverse logistics (I bet you dont even know what that means). I do know a great deal more about this that you.

Point taken about Mac vs PC opinions on which is better... Totally agreed, that is a matter of personal taste. Both are very capable. My point was that Mac's are NOT more expensive to produce.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 3/27/09, Rating: -1
RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By retrospooty on 3/27/2009 5:46:02 PM , Rating: 3
"Do computers consist only of motherboards? "

??? Is it your intention to say that Macs have better hard drives, DVDrom, etc?

"How about design then? Is the designing process more expensive for Macs? "

I am sure its more expensive than some, and less than others.

Look, you can be as persistent as you want - it doesn't change the fact that Mac's are overpriced for what you get. Not in every single model - but overall, you pay alot extra for a computer that isn't even suited for corporate business or games.

There is nothing that you can say to change that... and its not like I am the first one to notice this, its a well known fact.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 3/27/09, Rating: -1
RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Whaaambulance on 3/27/2009 6:19:29 PM , Rating: 4
quote:
But to call luxury sports cars overpriced is pretty stupid


Another idiotic comparison by Pirks.

Sports cars cost more because they perform better. Macs don't perform better than similar PC hardware.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 3/27/09, Rating: -1
RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Whaaambulance on 3/27/2009 7:01:11 PM , Rating: 3
Sigh... this is like teaching the mentally disabled....

Yes, the sports car is faster, handles better, looks better and gets a man more vagina than an F-150.

And performance is performance on a PC or a Mac. It's either good or it's not. If my PC renders a 3D scene faster than a Mac, it's faster. If it renders a Photoshop filter faster than a Mac, it's faster.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 3/28/09, Rating: -1
RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By SavagePotato on 3/27/2009 6:23:22 PM , Rating: 5
It's like watching a fat lady go back to the all you can eat buffet again and again and again, even though she knows it's wrong.

He Cannot, absolutely cannot resist his car analogy even though it's been proven asinine again and again and again by multiple people. Despite being rated down, ridiculed, basically being the hugest joke besides the troll playstationthree...

He just... cannot... get it...


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By retrospooty on 3/27/2009 7:04:01 PM , Rating: 2
LOL... I know. Its like watching the manager on the office.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 3/27/09, Rating: -1
RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By retrospooty on 3/27/2009 7:06:18 PM , Rating: 2
"Nope, there are other things besides chipsets, CPUs, DVDs and hard drives. "

OMG, your just plain nuts.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By xaoim on 3/27/2009 7:48:02 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
Do computers consist only of motherboards?


quote:
Moving the goalpost, also known as raising the bar, is an informal logically fallacious argument in which evidence presented in response to a specific claim is dismissed and some other (often greater) evidence is demanded. In other words, after an attempt has been made to score a goal, the goalposts are moved to exclude the attempt.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moving_the_goalpost

This guy Pirks is hilarious, he doesn't even realize how stupid he sounds. He is just going to keep shifting his position every time you refute his claims.

Pretty soon he will be saying...
quote:
Do computers consist of monitors, motherboards, CPUs,
, memory, expansion cards, power supplies, DVDs/Cdroms, Hard disks, keyboard, mice, and printers?


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Whaaambulance on 3/27/2009 7:55:38 PM , Rating: 2
He is our own little forumtard. I like to call him 'Blowfish'.

He sure is a funny little guy, isn't he?


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By sbtech on 3/30/09, Rating: 0
RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 3/30/2009 11:47:37 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
While an Intel Core2 Duo 2ghz is same on an Apple or a PC, saying two cars have engines, so they are same is totally wrong
But Whaaamorons here tell me all the time that if the chips in computers are the same then the computers are the same. Are you going to argue with uberdownrating trolling Whaaamorons here? I'd like to see that :)


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By epyon96 on 3/29/2009 9:14:09 PM , Rating: 1
Wow. It's rare to see such a hated person on the forum. I am trying to understand your perspective of things but it simply boils down to this.

A computer is only chips and software, NOTHING else matters. A PC, especially a desktop, is not a fashion item no matter what people tell you. A PC gets you from A to B. You don't show off to your buddies how sick your PC is by telling him the brand. You simply tell him the specs. You cannot pick up a chick with a PC but you can do it with a car.

You can make the fashion argument for a laptop. But should the premium really be 300+? It seems the market does not think so in this economy.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 3/30/09, Rating: -1
RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By adiposity on 3/30/2009 12:19:48 PM , Rating: 2
Look, I agree with you, but you're wrong (if that makes sense).

Something is a fashion item if you want it to be. That fact that computer geeks (which I include myself in) don't think so isn't particularly relevant. And yes, you can pick up a girl by having a Mac vs. a cheap PC. It says, "I am hip and I have money. I am less likely to be a geek."

Your last sentence applies to clothes, cars, etc. But people who care about appearances will still pay...


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Kefner on 3/27/09, Rating: 0
RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By evident on 3/27/2009 2:44:20 PM , Rating: 2
i just logged in to tell you that your stupidity in this thread really really made my day.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Sandok on 3/27/2009 4:21:43 PM , Rating: 1
You are an idiot Pirks...

Intel CPU (Atom or Core i7 or whatever new version is out) is the same whether its in a Apple laptop or a Dell or HP laptop. Or Voodoo or Alienware of any other PC maker out there, a CPU is the same (meaning all companies PAID more or less the same).

Your Lexus belongs to Toyota and Chevy well.. is Chevy so they don't have the same combustion engines. One might have 4 cylinders, the other 8, not same torque curves, BHP, gas sipping abilites, etc.

So ya... Stop using cars, you obviously don't know how to compare different industries (because you can't).


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 3/27/09, Rating: -1
RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By jimbojimbo on 3/27/2009 5:17:39 PM , Rating: 2
You're right. Macs usually lag behind what the PCs have especially on the GPU front.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 3/27/09, Rating: -1
RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Whaaambulance on 3/27/2009 5:50:36 PM , Rating: 4
This argument is invalid. Almost every cross platform game looks better on the PC and you can actually adjust the graphics settings on the PC.

You flip-flop everywhere dude. Just take a week off, contemplate how stupid you have been on these forums, and come back wiser. These forums will appreciate it.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 3/27/2009 7:32:26 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
Almost every cross platform game looks better on the PC
That's highly debatable, a lot of people prefer to play on large screen 52" TVs instead of tiny PC monitors and they think large TV with a console is waay better than a gaming PC picture quality wise.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Whaaambulance on 3/27/2009 7:42:46 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
a lot of people prefer to play on large screen 52" TVs instead of tiny PC monitors


Right.. because my GTX 295 doesn't have HDMI out and I don't play games on my 60" Plasma...

Aside from that, Games look better on my Dell 30" LCD than they do on my Plasma with my 360. I am talking about anti-aliasing and visual effects. Since you rant on about Crysis so much, you should know what a difference graphics settings do for the visuals. Not having those options sucks.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 3/27/2009 11:37:11 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
because my GTX 295 doesn't have HDMI out and I don't play games on my 60" Plasma
Not many people will agree to pay extra grand or so for a gaming PC versus console just for a few better looking pixels. Not worth it for most people.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Whaaambulance on 3/28/2009 2:52:47 AM , Rating: 2
Flip-flop more for us, Blowfish :)


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 3/28/2009 11:36:20 PM , Rating: 2
Spread some more funny lies for us, Whaaa :)


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By JHBoricua on 3/31/2009 2:31:18 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Not many people will agree to pay extra grand or so for a gaming PC versus console just for a few better looking pixels. Not worth it for most people.
Not many people will agree to pay extra grand or so for a MAC versus a PC just because it carries the Apple logo. Not worth it for most people


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 3/31/2009 4:26:06 PM , Rating: 2
People pay $1000 extra not for the Apple logo. Don't believe Wintards' lies.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By SavagePotato on 3/27/2009 6:17:34 PM , Rating: 4
Uh oh fail again Pirks.

I guess you are enjoying playing the graphically rich and extremely highly rated empire total war on your console?

No that's right you aren't because it's PC exclusive and released what, last month?


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 3/27/2009 7:42:05 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
graphically rich and extremely highly rated empire total war
You call THAT rich? Doesn't look like rich to me after Crysis, sorry ;) Standard console like picture, nothing really fancy or rich there.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Whaaambulance on 3/27/2009 7:47:05 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Standard console like picture, nothing really fancy or rich there.


Caught you flip-flopping again, as usual. So you were ranting earlier about 'rich' graphics moving to the console... now you are calling console quality "nothing really fancy or rich"...

Im just going to call you blowfish. Blow as in you never stfu, and are full of s**t and fish for your constant flip-flopping.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 3/27/2009 11:41:12 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
you were ranting earlier about 'rich' graphics moving to the console, now you are calling console quality "nothing really fancy or rich"
I said that Crytek is dumbing down its engine in order to run it on console hardware. Apparently you're way too dumb to understand what I've said in that thread about CryENGINE 2 and Carmack :)


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Noliving on 3/29/2009 12:27:38 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
I said that Crytek is dumbing down its engine in order to run it on console hardware.


No, what they are doing is making the engine scalable. The engine according crytek will perform the best and look the best on the pc however though they are also making it so the engine can work on consoles, for example the source engine, they didn't "dumb down" the engine for the pc to get it to work on xbox or the 360 or the ps3. Look at the red alert 3 game, it looks the best and performs the best on pc but it looks worse on the consoles and it has a unit cap. Did they dumb down the engine for pc users? Nope they only dumbed it down for consoles.

Just because an engine is being developed for multiple consoles and systems doesn't mean its the end of pc or console exclusives, look at left 4 dead, source engine was developed on the pc, works on xbox, 360 and ps3, yet on the consoles left 4 dead is a 360 exclusive.

Point being is this, having an engine work on multiple consoles and systems doesn't mean a game developed on that engine is going to be ported to a different console or to the pc.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Lightnix on 3/27/2009 8:36:58 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
Crysis


Also a PC exclusive.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 3/28/2009 1:02:49 AM , Rating: 2
A two year old and the last of its kind PC exclusive.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By jjmcubed on 3/27/2009 4:23:37 PM , Rating: 1
If Dailytech doesn't do something about this guy soon, I'm going to stop reading their site... Tired of the the same irrational arugements....


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By djc208 on 3/29/2009 9:20:32 AM , Rating: 1
You know as much about cars as you do computers apparently. Their engines may have parts with the same names that perform similar functions but that would be about all a Chevy engine and a Lexus engine have in common.

If you honestly think comparing a Chevy to a Lexus is comparison shopping then we may have hit on why you can't get a post to rate a positive number.

By that logic we have the exact same brains so how come yours seems to be defective on this subject?


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 3/29/2009 1:20:15 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Their engines may have parts with the same names that perform similar functions but that would be about all a Chevy engine and a Lexus engine have in common.
The computers are exactly the same. They may have parts with same names but this would be pretty much all that these computers have in common. JUST LIKE CARS.

Morons who downrate me are just too dumb to understand that simple fact above.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By djc208 on 3/31/2009 8:25:53 AM , Rating: 2
Not at all. The CPU is the same Intel piece you can buy from anywhere. Same with the GPU, memory, HDD, chipset, screen, etc. Some of the components are unique (case for instance) but if you want this vehicle analogy to be anywhere near accurate you have to stay within the same manufacturer.

Comparing a Chevy to a Cadillac would be valid. Certain vehicles in those two linups can be had with the same chassis/engine/transmission setup. It's only the wrapper and accessories that are different.

You're doing the equivalent of saying the PS3 and 360 are exactly the same. They both have CPUs and GPUs and disk drives but none of those parts are anywhere near similar to each other, even though they compete.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 3/31/2009 3:39:17 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
if you want this vehicle analogy to be anywhere near accurate you have to stay within the same manufacturer
Why? Computers are made by different manufacturers, same is true for cars. You can sort of compare Lexus and Chevy, 'cause they are both cars. You can also compare Mac and PC 'cause they are both computers and too made by different manufacturers. Not much difference form cars, if you look closely enough.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By djc208 on 4/1/2009 7:30:35 AM , Rating: 2
Computers are made by different manufacturers from the same parts. Chipsets, screens, CPUs, GPUs, etc. all come from a limited number of sources. Comparing a Chevy engine to a Lexus engine is like AMD vs. Intel. You're comparing an Intel Mac with an Intel PC. Back when Macs had PowerPC processors your analogy might have worked.

No one cross shops a Lexus and a Chevy, the comparison is apples and oranges. Lexus is a luxury brand Chevy is not. The price range doesn't overlap so neither do the vehicles expectations. Cadillac, BMW, Mercedes, Lexus, Infinity, Jaguar; these are all valid comparisons and in that sense the Lexus wouldn't be the best of the bunch either, but it's at least competitive and similar in terms of price/performance/features.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Whaaambulance on 4/1/2009 11:14:22 AM , Rating: 2
A well written response, but completely wasted on Pirks.

It doesn't matter what form of logic or reason you use, it will not penetrate his thick skull. He will probably respond with more of the same babble followed by "LOOOOOLzzz" or ":)))))))))))))" or a heavy combination of both.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 4/1/2009 12:33:39 PM , Rating: 2
Get back on a leash, clown! Don't perform for djc208! You're my personal one, stop performing for anyone but me! :))) Hehee :PPP


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Whaaambulance on 4/1/2009 12:47:14 PM , Rating: 2
This best describes you, to a f'ing tee.

http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warriorshtm/loopy...


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By djc208 on 4/2/2009 9:06:16 AM , Rating: 2
Wow, a Pirks post I would rate down!

Anyone check the temperature of Hell lately?


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 4/1/2009 12:40:14 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Computers are made by different manufacturers from the same parts
Cars are also made by different manufacturers from the same parts, supplied by the same suppliers.
quote:
No one cross shops a Lexus and a Chevy, the comparison is apples and oranges. Lexus is a luxury brand Chevy is not. The price range doesn't overlap so neither do the vehicles expectations.
Does it mean that Lexus is overpriced?

P.S. check this out: http://www.geekculture.com/joyoftech/joyarchives/1... - isn't that on topic? :)) Hehe


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Whaaambulance on 4/1/2009 12:52:42 PM , Rating: 2
Look at Loopy here. I feel so bad for the little guy. Let's all lend a helping hand to Loopy, our own little forumtard.

http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warriorshtm/loopy...

quote:
Loopy's messages are incomprehensible to all but himself. Loopy is easily aroused and exuberant in battle and fearlessly flings himself at any Warrior - even Kung-Fu Master. Loopy's main weapons consist of a disarming array of nonsequiturs, tautologies, and bizarre metaphors, which can often gain him an advantage in the initial stages of an attack. Combatants very quickly realize, however, that Loopy is a certifiable nut case and generally avoid further engagement. Jerk and Evil Clown revel in egging Loopy on for their own amusement. CAUTION: Loopy cannot be defeated with conventional weapons - any response to his attacks will provoke a fusillade of incoherent messages, so Loopy is best left undisturbed.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 4/1/2009 1:06:39 PM , Rating: 2
djc208, don't listen to that stupid clown because he only wants to pollute this thread with his garbage as much as he can. He creates white noise because he's dumb, try to filter it out.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By djc208 on 4/2/2009 9:26:22 AM , Rating: 2
The majority of the parts are not shared with any other manufacturer's vehicle. Sure within the same manufacturer you'll find the same or similar parts. But outside of that bolts, tires, maintenance items (spark plugs, belts, oil filters) are probably about the only items identical between two different manufacturers, and even then there's no guarantee.

Seats, wheels, glass, guages can all come from a manufacturer that may also provides parts to other car companies but they're not the same parts. A Lexus wheel is made just for Lexus. Chevy gets a different one, built to their specifications.

quote:
Does it mean that Lexus is overpriced?


Technically yes, that's why it's a Luxury brand. You can buy a Toyota version (same company) that will do the same stuff cheaper, and some things maybe even better. You're paying for the luxury extras and the prestige of being seen in a Lexus. If you can afford it and want either or both of the above then by all means buy one. But not everyone thinks a couple of extra toys and some leather seats is worth spending thousands more on a vehicle.

Most people aren't arguing that a Mac isn't sexy and slick, just that you pay a lot of cash for that extra bling and the image that comes with it. That image is only worth it to some people.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 4/2/2009 12:26:28 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
A Lexus wheel is made just for Lexus
A Mac motherboard is made just for Apple.
quote:
just that you pay a lot of cash for that extra bling and the image that comes with it
If you think Mac only differs from PC in image and nothing else - you're gravely mistaken.
quote:
That image is only worth it to some people
I wish Macs were just PCs with different image. I thought so too until I got Mac Mini and then PowerMac at work and developed some software on it. This Wintard legend of Mac being "same PC but with image" has disappeared very quickly. Only dumb Wintards and fanatics like Whaaa believe it.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Whaaambulance on 4/2/2009 12:40:43 PM , Rating: 1
Hows my dick taste in your mouth? Every single post you make has "Whaa"-something in it.

It's nice to have my own little groupie. You are such a great fan of mine.

THAT is the true definition of obsession.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 4/2/2009 2:49:23 PM , Rating: 2
Don't be so cheerful yet, clown. I just use nicknames of the most active Wintard trolls as a term describing a generally dumb person. I used to call idiots "chikos" and "potatos" named after two most active Wintard trolls who came here before you. After a while they stopped posting their garbage (potato one posted a little pile of crap here lateley but not a lot compared to his former efforts :))) hence I changed term to "whaaa" now. So I call idiots "whaaa", that's it. Once you stop being a clown I stop using that term after a while. Got it, dumbo? ;)))


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Whaaambulance on 4/2/2009 2:55:25 PM , Rating: 2
Incase you haven't noticed, the only person I 'troll' is you. It's because you aren't bringing value to any discussion. Now if you were to prove me wrong and show me a post in which you responded to a post with a neutral position, I would back off. But you don't.

Even in the post, I will avoid using name-calling or belittling. But I can bet you will respond with just that.

Also, go through my posts and see where I really 'bash Apple'. You won't find it. I only bash idiots that don't bring value to a discussion by writing off their opinions as facts and not respecting the views of others.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 4/2/2009 3:50:57 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
the only person I 'troll' is you
Hehee, what's funny here is that I also 'troll' mostly you :) Well, there was another potatotwin of yours who got his own medicine too, but this was a minor one :))
quote:
show me a post in which you responded to a post with a neutral position, I would back off. But you don't.
I showed you http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=14642... like 5 or 6 times already. Keep ignoring it, stupid cheapo clown :))) Every time you ask me about showing you an honest post of mine I'll show you this link again and again. You will learn by heart the fact that I was consistently downrated for telling the truth and the facts here. This post above is a primary example. Got it, clown? How many times I have to repeat this link to you? Just tell me if you have problems understanding simple things, I'll post it some more. No problem with that :)


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Whaaambulance on 4/2/2009 3:54:08 PM , Rating: 2
There you go with the petty name-calling.

Now I am looking at your post and it's a post in response to someone else. On top of that, I asked you to show me a post where you took a neutral position. You aren't taking a neutral postion. Of course, neutral to you means your opinion is the only one that counts.

Keep calling me names, it doesn't make you look any better. Grow up and we can talk more.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 4/2/2009 4:49:09 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
You aren't taking a neutral postion
How come posting just the cold hard facts is not neutral? I don't get this. Please explain.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By bubba551 on 3/27/2009 2:45:04 PM , Rating: 1
Lexus and Chevy = bad comparison.
Escalade vs Surburban
or Navigator vs Expedition would be more appropriate.

(You would be shocked at the number of parts that are interchangeable between lexus and my toyota.)


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Hieyeck on 3/27/2009 3:08:09 PM , Rating: 1
It's awesome - though the Lexus parts usually go through slightly lengthier QC, I can always get cheaper Toyota parts.

On the topic of cars, I've put less money into maintaining my 3rd-hand '92 Lexus in the last 2 years than my Dad did in the FIRST 2 years of driving some GM trash. Good thing we bought the car on GM points, but I've sworn off anything made in North America (yes I won't buy that Toyota Corolla) - the auto unions can go to hell.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 3/27/09, Rating: -1
RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By akosixiv on 3/27/2009 4:32:28 PM , Rating: 2
Unfortunately, unlike the car comparison that you are using, the MAC and PC parts do not have that kind of difference in QC length.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 3/27/2009 4:53:55 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
MAC and PC parts do not have that kind of difference in QC length
Computer is not only hardware parts, you know.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By JHBoricua on 3/31/2009 2:37:57 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Computer is not only hardware parts, you know.
Apparently once stamped with the Apple logo the parts undergo some sort of transformation at the molecular level that somehow makes them more expensive to sell without increasing their performance.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Whaaambulance on 3/31/2009 2:54:42 PM , Rating: 2
They are imbued with Apple Koolaidâ„¢ and blessed by Steve Jobs before leaving the manufacturing plants.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 3/31/2009 4:29:24 PM , Rating: 2
Don't listen to fanatical Whaaalies, guys. Whaaa is just a sick clown, no need to pay attention to his mindless fanatical babbling.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 3/31/2009 4:33:39 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
once stamped with the Apple logo the parts undergo some sort of transformation at the molecular level that somehow makes them more expensive to sell without increasing their performance
Performance is not the only metric people judge computers by. Same is true about cars too. Did you know that?


By RandomUsername3463 on 3/27/2009 3:24:38 PM , Rating: 2
Wow your dad must drive a LOT to burn through that 5 year / 100k mile warranty in less than 2 years.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By callmeroy on 3/27/2009 2:46:47 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
Yeah, guys buying Lexuses realize they are essentially same machines as Chevys. Of course the only difference between Lexus and Chevy is the name plate. Right :))) LOL


Hey a Corvette is a Chevy, so yeah I'm fine with that Lexus vs Chevy comparison......(and don't forget a Lexus is just a glorified Toyota). :)


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 3/27/09, Rating: -1
RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Whaaambulance on 3/27/2009 3:11:35 PM , Rating: 5
My inability to comprehend your flawed logic and downright retardation doesn't make me or anyone else inept.

The only one here who seems to understand you.... is you.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By jjmcubed on 3/27/2009 4:30:37 PM , Rating: 2
DING DING DING!!! WE have a winnar!!!


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 3/27/2009 5:08:21 PM , Rating: 2
A winner in a clown competition :))) LOLzzz :))) Good job Whaaa


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By SavagePotato on 3/27/2009 5:47:04 PM , Rating: 5
Pirks always goes full retard.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 3/28/2009 1:42:50 AM , Rating: 1
SavagePotato always spreads idiotic lies.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By SavagePotato on 3/29/2009 4:06:20 PM , Rating: 2
Nah, there's what now 30 or 40 posts from you in this thread alone proving my statement as fact.

If one thing good has come out of this thread, it's your new nickname, the blowfish, nobodies favorite flip flopping hot air filled mactard.

I find it amusing how you had to copy my "like telling hitler the jews are okay" analogy too.

Don't worry pirks maybe someday you will be a big boy too and can think up your own analogies, god knows you need some cause that car analogy is getting pretty goddamn old isn't it?

Your homework for tonight is to read over all your posts in this thread and see if you can figure out why you are the biggest joke on dailytech.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 3/29/2009 5:49:38 PM , Rating: 2
Hey hey, don't call MacBook Pro owning Whaaaclown a "mactard" or he'll become obsessed with you too :)))


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By SavagePotato on 3/29/2009 6:30:37 PM , Rating: 2
You see thats why you are just a pathetic troll and fail to get it.

It is possible for a normal person to own a mac product without being a tard.

Someone that behaves like you... tard.

Someone that can be objective about products they own, just another normal person. May not agree with their choices but hey people are free to spend their money how they like.

They are also free to point out ridiculous rejects like you that do not even own a mac yet crusade for it on every thread spouting contradictory nonsense for no reason other than to fill the internet with more useless opinions.

It is pretty funny to me that even mac OWNERS are telling you that you are a stupid f-ing idiot. Look pirks there went a clue, go get one.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 3/29/2009 8:15:06 PM , Rating: 2
So far you were unable to prove that I'm not objective about the products I own. I've seen nothing from you resembling reasonable/sane arguments. All you do is trolling with your clownish braindead twin bro Whaaa. If you want me to stop ridiculing you both - you have to stop trolling first, is that clear? Wanna talk technical - talk technical. Nobody is interested in your trolling and name calling. Please stop polluting this thread with garbage, post only technical questions and arguments. Thank you.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By SavagePotato on 3/30/2009 1:24:20 AM , Rating: 2
Pirks you calling anyone a troll is so much of a distortion of reality that you must be able to break the laws of physics to get your idiotic brain to think things like that up.

Let's review, you have an entire forum of people telling you to stfu, you have a post rating below 1 with over 2000 posts, even the mac users have no use for you. No one is under the delusion that you are capable of anything close to resembling logic.

You haven't posted anything YET that isn't a garbage post and to be honest I don't know why they just don't ban you from the site. You have not posted anything even resembling a useful remark in your entire history here. You are a troll of the most ridiculous levels, probably even worse than playstationthree. Because at least playstationthree knows he is a troll.

Please seek psychiatric help, go on Doctor Phil, or Maury, or something where you can get answers for what in the holy hell is wrong with your head.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 3/30/2009 3:08:47 AM , Rating: 2
Blah blah, empty words without any proof as usual. Please stop being so boring and get more technical. I can also keep calling you names and all that, but what's the point? I'm bored with you, Potato. Really.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By SavagePotato on 3/30/2009 10:25:08 AM , Rating: 2
Sure you are pirks, thats why you cannot stop replying, to every single thing I say, because yes, you are a troll.

Most if not everyone in this forum has forgotten more technical knowledge than you will ever know, so please stop pretending that is why you are here.

PS...

The proof you want is the torrent of pure uselessness you unleashed in your pile of -1 posts in this thread.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 3/30/2009 5:18:43 PM , Rating: 2
That's why you can't stop replying to my posts Potato, 'cause you're a Windows worshipping moronically braindead hardcore troll. Please stop pretending you are here for any reason besides mindless trolling and Apple bashing.

P.S. The proof of my knowledge is my rating - if I got downrated by morons, this means I have more knowledge than them hence they envy me and downrate me everywhere they see me. Mediocrity just can't stand strong argumentative posts like those of mine, and this is why mediocre Potatos and Whaaas downrate me.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By SavagePotato on 3/30/2009 10:40:37 PM , Rating: 2
I don't know what kind of drugs your parents must of done while you were being conceived to make you so absolutely dense. With all seriousness there are brick walls that are more intelligent than you.

I know it's using logic so this is going to fly right over your head, but you cannot downrate on a thread you post in, and it takes MANY of people to downrate as many posts as you have in here down to -1. Not to mention with an overall post rating of 1 it happens a great deal doesn't it.

You are a joke,

let me say it again, you are a joke.

A loser.

A douchebag.

A complete and utter waste of matter.

I wouldn't brake if I saw you crossing the street.

Please do the human race a favor and kill yourself to prevent any chance whatsoever of an imbecile like you procreating.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 3/31/2009 12:07:06 AM , Rating: 2
Are you afraid to give me sound technical counter arguments? Why? Or are you just too dumb for that and hence simply physically incapable of anything but mindless trolling? I've seen only trolling from you so far, I wonder if you EVER switch from troll mode into the normal conversation mode. Oh well, not today I guess. I'll wait then, maybe your mental sickness is a temporary thing and will go away soon. I'm not losing hope Potato! Get well and come back, we'll talk normal then :o)


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By SavagePotato on 3/31/2009 9:33:12 AM , Rating: 2
Pirks, you have made the same inane incorrect argument so many times, and had so many people rub your face in how stupid you are that it is really just laughable at this point.

The only one that thinks you are making "technical arguments" is you.

I have seen you parrot this same nonsense crap about cars on countless threads, be rebuked, embarrassed, humiliated, downrated, and just generally made a fool of more times than I can count.

There is nothing to discuss with you, you are an idiot that is obsessed with the same point that has been laughed at by every person on dailytech repeatedly and cannot shut up about it.

Going on and on and on about the same crap you have been proved an idiot about is not a strong technical argument, it is just you arguing for the sake of arguing and moving the goalpoast as someone else put it. When you are proven a fool, (which happens alot) you just pretend you didn't say that and tell yourself you won.

There is as much value in debating anything with you as there is in watching paint dry. Therefore I know better than to waste my time doing anything other than ridicule your worthless ideas.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 3/31/2009 3:47:46 PM , Rating: 2
You are afraid to give me sound counter arguments because you don't have any. You can only troll. Looks like your sickness will never go away. *sighs*


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By SavagePotato on 3/31/2009 6:07:45 PM , Rating: 2
I and everyone else on this forum has destroyed your arguments again and again, long long ago. Because you have been making the SAME argument for years and getting your ass handed to you.

Facts are useless on an idiot like you, most people on dailytech learned that long ago. That is why you are a joke. I have used facts, I have made a fool of you in threads gone by over months if not years, and yet here you are, making the same goddamn inane car comparison for new generations of dailytech readers to tell you that you are a stupid f-ing idiot.

You were stupid then, you are stupid now, you will always be stupid. It is inescapable.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 3/31/2009 7:43:36 PM , Rating: 2
Destroyed? You call mindless trolling "destroyed"? That's funny. I've yet to see a single sane argument from you or your clownish Whaaatwin. So far you two only trolled here around o'clock. Try to stop trolling for once, okay? Just for a sake of trying something different, 'cause when you troll around o'clock like a drone you become sooo boring.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Dennis Travis on 3/27/2009 3:03:23 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
quote:
I went out, priced them, and was aghast at the cost
Wow, $599 for an entry level Mac was so shocking to you. Really really ASTRONOMICAL price, hehee :))) LOL


She wanted a 17" Notebook and not a Mini with no display keyboard mouse. There is no Apple Notebook at any size that costs $599. She wanted to spend $1000 for a 17" Notebook. There is no Apple Notebook that is 17" for that price.

I love OSX and use Macs but the truth is the truth.


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 3/27/2009 3:31:52 PM , Rating: 2
And the next thing we'll see is the ad from GM bashing Lexus, Maybach and BMW brands for not offering the cars below 20k. You guys are pathetic :))) I don't even understand what are you so upset about? Apple does not force you to buy their hardware. If you think it's the same as any other PC - don't buy it. By bashing it you just look like a crowd of poor jerks yelling and whistling at the people with extra income who decided to choose their goods based NOT _JUST_ ON PRICE. Clowns, you're just a bunch of silly clowns :)))


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By tonyfreak215 on 3/28/2009 8:22:15 AM , Rating: 1
You are aware that Lexus is Toyota's luxury brand, right?


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 3/28/2009 11:40:57 PM , Rating: 2
You are aware that Mac is PC's luxury brand, right?


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By tonyfreak215 on 3/28/2009 8:22:58 AM , Rating: 2
You are aware that Lexus is Toyota's luxury brand, right?


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By nitrous9200 on 3/28/2009 10:51:44 PM , Rating: 1
Yup, $599 for a computer with 1GB of RAM and a 120GB hard drive...a quick search on Newegg reveals a handful of desktops from various brands with a quad core processor, at least 4GB of RAM and at least a 320GB hard drive (usually more).


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Pirks on 3/29/2009 7:35:05 AM , Rating: 2
In a same tiny case and with the same mobile parts/wireless/bluetooth options?


RE: The Empire Strikes Back
By Orpheus333 on 3/27/2009 2:42:17 PM , Rating: 2
I want to see the ad where Microsoft brings up who lost CanSecWest 2008. Leopard was hacked in no more than 2 min. Vista took hours through an adobe flash loophole If I understand correctly. That, in conjunction with this ad would be lethal. One of the biggest selling points for Mac is their percieved security.

http://cybernetnews.com/2008/03/31/cansecwest-resu...


nice price
By ciparis on 3/27/2009 11:52:01 AM , Rating: 5
$699 for a 17" HP notebook is a great example of price disparity; there's simply no comparable alternative from Apple if budget is remotely a consideration.

Here's to hoping that we see Apple release some sort of competitively-priced netbook this summer, but I don't hold my breath about them ever attempting to compete with 17-inch models in the sub-$1k range. Pity about that, too.

I've gone between Windows 7 and (purchased) OS X on my O/C'd 4 Ghz Core i7/4870 build, and while I'll probably stick with OS X (I really liked Windows 7's UI, but I need full *nix support, and OS X is the nicest *nix option), I just can't see spending so much more for the slower Mac Pro equivalent, regardless of how well it's made.




RE: nice price
By ChickenMcTest on 3/27/09, Rating: 0
RE: nice price
By just4U on 3/27/2009 3:50:18 PM , Rating: 2
Hmmm I don't know about that I can price out a

i7 920, 6G of memory, X58 board, 2X 1TB Drives, BlueRay Drive,Card Reader,4870/1G,PC Power And Cooling PSU, Lian Li Casing, Higher end Keyboard and mouse (with blue tooth, 26" Monitor, and the OS for 2057.00

That's a huge difference and I didn't select budget minded parts either or enter in combo deals or anything just straight up pricing of what I'd buy. I could get that price down alot more or go up and add even more and still walk away feeling I got way better value for my money.


RE: nice price
By RandomUsername3463 on 3/27/2009 3:51:47 PM , Rating: 3
Mac Pro: Quad Core 2.66 Xeon, 6GB Ram, 640GB HD, ATI 4870 512MB, Apple Keyboard & Mouse, Mac OS, very cool tower case = $2850

Newegg:
Quad core 2.66 i7 CPU: $279
Corsair XMS3 3x2GB: $89 (-20 MIR)
MSI X58 Platinum SLI LGA 1366 Intel X58: $225
Corsair 650W PSU: $90
WD Black 640 GB HD: $80
HIS 4870 512MB: $165 (-10 MIR)
LG DVD Burner: $25
Logitech Cordless Desktop S520 (kbd+mouse): $60
MS Windows Vista Premium: $100
LIAN LI PC-V2110A Silver Computer Case: $320

Total (before rebates): $1434
Am I missing a major component here? I put this together in a hurry so maybe I skipped something, but to me it looks like the Apple is priced about DOUBLE what you'd pay for a similar windows box. Hrm I guess I did leave off bluetooth and 802.11n (it does have firewire!)


RE: nice price
By just4U on 3/27/2009 4:22:11 PM , Rating: 2
dammmmmn now I wish I'd laid my setup out in more detail lol.. nicely composed post there Random.


RE: nice price
By RandomUsername3463 on 3/27/2009 4:26:47 PM , Rating: 2
Thanks:)


RE: nice price
By Pirks on 3/27/2009 4:26:30 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Am I missing a major component here?
Dual socket Nehalem-based Xeon motherboard maybe? ;)


RE: nice price
By RandomUsername3463 on 3/27/2009 4:43:04 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Dual socket Nehalem-based Xeon motherboard maybe? ;)


That dual socket motherboard isn't going to do you much good without a CPU. When you add 2 CPU's (at 2.66Ghz), I'm seeing a BASE price of $4699 , not $2850.

If I get bored I'll add up one of these on newegg for you as well. I'm sure the Mac will be a bit more competitive here, but if you don't need 8 cores (or non-hackintosh OSX) the Apple Logo sure is an expensive option.


RE: nice price
By Whaaambulance on 3/27/2009 5:00:53 PM , Rating: 2
Asus is currently planning on a consumer dual 1366 board. Based on their previous dual boards, you can expect the price to be around $600.00. That still puts the PC cost well below the Apple system.

There is no doubt you can build a better system yourself for much less money than a Mac Pro. But you are paying for the brand, for the aesthetics when you buy Apple. I have said it before, there is nothing wrong with that. People pay more for things based on perception or style, not always functionality.


RE: nice price
By RjBass on 3/28/2009 8:30:11 PM , Rating: 2
And we call those people "sheep". Always willing to just follow the rest of the heard no matter where it takes them. Even if it is for worse product at a higher price.


RE: nice price
By Pirks on 3/29/2009 7:43:31 AM , Rating: 2
Hahahaaa, Whaaaclown was just called a "sheep" here :))) Oh the irony ;))) LOLzzz!! :))))) heheheheee


RE: nice price
By Pirks on 3/27/2009 5:19:29 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I'll add up one of these on newegg for you as well
Try to _FIND_ them first on Newegg, lama :))) You're obviously as bad as any other Whaaa in understanding hardware market :))


RE: nice price
By Whaaambulance on 3/27/2009 5:25:52 PM , Rating: 2
Where have I been wrong concerning anything related to hardware? I am positive you will not find it. I have only been 100% correct in my description of your mental issues.


RE: nice price
By Pirks on 3/27/2009 5:39:32 PM , Rating: 2
In that case "Whaaa" was used by me as a term for a generally dumb guy, it was not about _you exactly_. So don't take THIS one too personally ;)


RE: nice price
By Penti on 3/28/2009 5:12:49 PM , Rating: 2
And if you don't need fully warranted and supported workstation that supports RHEL that HP sure is an expensive option for a logo.

On a serious side note a Mac Medium tower with a i7 would be nice. Would be Cheaper if they could do a X4 PH2 though, base model could had the 790GX then. But they are no gaming-computer system builder.


RE: nice price
By Doormat on 3/27/2009 4:54:36 PM , Rating: 2
The fact you're comparing a 2S Xeon motherboard with a Core i7 mobo is a big factor. The Xeon/Core i7 processor difference is $300 more expensive as well, regardless of clock speed.

I will agree that the current MPs are overpriced considering what the prices are supposed to be for the new Nehalem Xeons, I think Apple is using their position as the only OEM to be shipping Nehalem Xeon boxes right now to extract a price premium out of users. I wouldn't be surprised to see a price drop in April or May once everyone else (Dell, HP) get Xeon 1S/2S workstation boxes on the market. I would venture to say $1999 for the single Xeon and $2999 for the dual Xeon.

Remember that this time around, Intel is artifically geting another $800+ per dual socket computer because it can discriminate between single and dual socket Xeons by charging an extra $400-500 to activate that extra QPI channel -- a 2.66 W3520 Xeon is $562, a X5550 (dual socket) 2.66 Xeon is $952, a difference of nearly $400. Thats Intel's doing , not Apple. All other OEMs (Dell, HP, Lenovo) will have the same price structures to deal with.


RE: nice price
By RandomUsername3463 on 3/27/2009 5:04:48 PM , Rating: 2
And that's one of the more frustrating things about Apple. You step from the all-in-one dual core iMac to the uber expensive dual socket workstation. I know they have legit reasons for doing this (the average Mac user probably doesn't need quad core, and the professional who wants a workstation doesn't care about price) -- it's just frustrating to the budget conscious "power" user.

In the end, though, I bet my i7 setup would benchmark virtually the same as the Mac for half the price.


RE: nice price
By Pirks on 3/27/2009 5:27:46 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
it's just frustrating to the budget conscious "power" user
Frustrating why? Power users on a budget never buy Macs because Macs were not designed for that market segment, and hence they never bitch about Macs' prices to start with ;)


RE: nice price
By Doormat on 3/27/2009 5:38:36 PM , Rating: 2
I agree 100% about the lack of a mid-range mac. Its why I'm trying to turn my Q9450 into a hackintosh.

Yes, your i7 would bench well, but you're still using Windows off the shelf. I still have a 7900GS video card in my computer. At this point the only benchmark I care about is how fast x264 runs. I moved to console gaming a while ago. (I figured I could buy an entire console for a high end video card, so instead of a new video card every year, buy a console instead).

I'll gladly admit that for hardcore gaming, the Mac is not where its at. But PC gaming isn't what it used to be for a lot of people, like myself.


RE: nice price
By Pirks on 3/28/2009 12:58:01 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
I moved to console gaming a while ago. (I figured I could buy an entire console for a high end video card, so instead of a new video card every year, buy a console instead). PC gaming isn't what it used to be for a lot of people, like myself.
Doh, you can keep telling this to a couple of braindead zombies SavagePotato and Whaaaclown, and you'll see how thick their skull is :))) They will tell ya all their fairy tales about how PC gaming pwns console gaming and all the other BS they specialize in. If you feel bored - just poke them around, tell them the story about you switching to console, you'll see a looooot of funny BS and clownish jumps and tricks from Whaaa and his brainded buddy SavagePotato.


RE: nice price
By RandomUsername3463 on 3/28/2009 3:20:34 PM , Rating: 2
I think you may be mistaken here. I'm not primarily a gamer. My main "gaming" system is a Core2 2.2Ghz with a 9600GT, however I have worked in academia and in a startup company where I do some complex multithreaded scientific computing and CAD applications. In both these cases I would have seen much higher performance from a quad core over a dual core. In both of these cases, I could get pretty much any computer I wanted for < ~$3000. If I wanted to spend $4000+ on a computer, it required much higher authorization since it was no longer a "desktop" system. Neither the iMac nor the Mac Pro are a good fit for this type of use. An i7 would do a great job.


RE: nice price
By Penti on 3/28/2009 5:20:53 PM , Rating: 2
Remember it's Apple, I wouldn't expect a price change until they release a new version (model) of the Mac Pro.


RE: nice price
By CrazyBernie on 3/27/2009 8:35:38 PM , Rating: 2
You're missing the giant gold plated, diamond crusted e-penis that's included with every Mac Purchase. If you're going for an "Apples to Apples" comparison. No pun intended.


RE: nice price
By Yongsta on 3/27/2009 4:29:06 PM , Rating: 2
Mac Pro: $2699 (2.66 ghz Quad Core Intel Xeon, 3GB Ram, 640GB 7200rpm HD, Radeon 4870 512mb, 18x Optical Drive, Mouse and Keyboard.

Lian Li PC-65 Silver Aluminum Case: $120
Corsair CMPSU-750TX 750 watt power supply: $110
Intel Xeon 2.66 Quard Core (comes with heatsink and fan) : $290 or Intel Q6600 2.4ghz Quad Core: $200 (for overclockers)
Gigabyte EP45 Motherboard: $115
G.Skill 4GB PC2 8500 DDR2 Ram: $53
Samsung 750GB 7200rpm HD: $70
Powercolor Radeon 4870 1GB: $190
Samsung 22x DVD-RW: $25
Keyboard + Mouse: $40
Total: $1013 for Intel Xeon or $923 for the Intel Q6600. You have money left over for some nice 24" monitors and heatsink/fan for overclocking. You also get 1GB more ram, 512mb extra ram on the Video Card, and 20GB more in the harddrive space.


RE: nice price
By Pirks on 3/27/2009 5:47:11 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
Gigabyte EP45 Motherboard
Another idiot directly comparing a single socket C2D mobo with a dual socket Nehalem mobo in Mac Pro :))) DT is swarming with lamers like this one, heheee


RE: nice price
RE: nice price
By just4U on 3/27/2009 5:57:48 PM , Rating: 2
Think about what you just said .. Now compare it to your Lexus analogy..


RE: nice price
By Pirks on 3/27/2009 8:31:39 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Now compare it to your Lexus analogy
What's wrong with it?


RE: nice price
By Yongsta on 3/27/2009 6:29:53 PM , Rating: 2
Right, because you need a dual socket board when you have one single cpu.


RE: nice price
By Pirks on 3/28/2009 1:29:19 AM , Rating: 2
Right, because you can't compare a single socket cheapo consumer PC with a dual socket professional workstation, these are very different machines for very different market segments.


RE: nice price
By ciparis on 3/28/2009 3:57:04 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
these are very different machines for very different market segments


That's the thing: they're not sufficiently differentiated anymore. Whether you go Apple or not, these machines are vastly more capable than the ones Apple was selling up until just a couple of weeks ago (disclosure: I owned one).

There was no good reason for Apple to stick with the Xeon over the already-top-tier i7 / X58 combo this time around. The i5 is set to be Intel's mainstream solution; most people will never see a 3-channel memory setup this hardware generation, and they won't be getting an X58 chipset. Compared to the i7, the Xeon just won't be measurably faster on any but the most extreme edge case, and since you aren't going to be overclocking the Xeon (something every pundit has made clear is so within the capabilities of the i7 it's almost foolish not to), the Xeon-based Mac Pro is likely to be at a significant handicap compared to what you can build or buy elsewhere, even looking at the lowest-end i7 option (which is what I'm running -- at 4Ghz. YMMV).

Strikes against the Mac Pro:

1) Xeon, when the i7 is the smarter purchase
2) No 1GB 4870, just when that is the card to own
3) Terrible clock speeds
4) No overclocking, just when things are getting really interesting again

Benefits of the Mac Pro:
1) You don't have to screw with anything to get it to run OS X
2) The case is still better than anyone elses

Miscellaneous matters:
8 cores -- virtual or otherwise -- is a good balance. That's what I had last round with my dual-Xeon Mac Pro, and this 8-thread i7 smokes it. I almost never tax all of my cores at once -- why on Earth would I spend so much more just for a 16-thread workstation? Only if I rendered a lot (3D, Video) would this make any sense at all. Even if I were, I would still probably choose 4 GHz x 8 over 2.26 GHz * 16. It's just going to be so much faster at everything else, and the vast speed difference makes even the core advantage almost a wash. Toss in the fact that the path I took is at least a couple of grand less expensive than Apple's cheapest dual Xeon, and overclocking a 920 is a no-brainer.

Apple needs a good, quality i7 system at a reasonable price, and they need a hardware enthusiast product manager who will make sure that the top video card option won't give you an immediate case of buyer's remorse.

I built my i7 in November from the proceeds of selling my Mac Pro (and buying a 42" Panasonic Viera plasma, and still having money left over), mostly because there was nothing available from Apple yet. Now that I see what they've finally put together, I have no regrets.


RE: nice price
By Belard on 3/28/2009 10:45:53 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Apple needs a good, quality i7 system at a reasonable price, and they need a hardware enthusiast product manager who will make sure that the top video card option won't give you an immediate case of buyer's remorse.


Apple cant/won't do that. If Apple made a $1000~1400 Desktop system with a Quad Core Core2 or an i7 (both with cheaper memory solutions), it would be as fast or faster than their dual CPU setups.

So they stick to DUAL core CPUs in their iMacs instead.


RE: nice price
By Cheesew1z69 on 3/29/2009 12:27:35 PM , Rating: 1
After reading your posts Pirk, I have to agree that you an idiot of a higher caliber, your posts half the time make absolutely no fucking sense whatsoever


RE: nice price
By Cheesew1z69 on 3/29/2009 12:28:45 PM , Rating: 2
you are*


RE: nice price
By Pirks on 3/29/2009 1:24:09 PM , Rating: 2
You're just too dumb to understand my posts, that's all :P


RE: nice price
By Cheesew1z69 on 3/29/2009 1:55:58 PM , Rating: 2
No, you are just an idiot.....nothing to understand there


RE: nice price
By Pirks on 3/29/2009 2:08:22 PM , Rating: 1
Wanna try mentats? The only thing that can possibly help you :))) heheee


RE: nice price
By Cheesew1z69 on 3/29/2009 2:18:16 PM , Rating: 2
I am worlds above you in cognitive thinking and analytical thinking, but um, thanks anyway? You are still a moron.....


RE: nice price
By Pirks on 3/29/2009 3:03:08 PM , Rating: 2
Looks like your diagnosis is worse than I initially thought. Oh well.


Buddies PC Build Cost
By Kefner on 3/27/2009 11:08:22 AM , Rating: 5
A buddy of mine called the other day about needing a new computer. So off to newegg I went figuring I could build him a decent computer for under 500 bucks. (he doesn't game, just email, web browsing and such). Here's a quick overview of what I got him (some of these may be overkill for his purposes, but it's so cheap, why not a little overkill).

AMD Dual Core 2.5ghz, 250GB HD, 4GB ram, Motherboard with Nvidia 8200 integrated graphics, 22xDVD Burner, 500 watt PS, and Vista Home Premium 64bit (OEM), the most basic pc case i could find. total cost = 386.93! (none of this is final, just a starting point, but he's in love with the price so far!)




RE: Buddies PC Build Cost
By FITCamaro on 3/27/2009 11:11:24 AM , Rating: 2
I would suggest changing the motherboard to one with onboard graphics that support Blu-ray decoding. Just in case.


RE: Buddies PC Build Cost
By Murloc on 3/27/2009 11:40:50 AM , Rating: 1
yes, and vista 64bit isn't needed imho. It got only 4 gb of ram, and it could cause problems with old printer drivers.


RE: Buddies PC Build Cost
By FITCamaro on 3/27/2009 11:49:42 AM , Rating: 5
Older printer drivers likely wouldn't work anyway since the driver model changed for both 32-bit and 64-bit.

Stick with x64. Ready for the future that way.


RE: Buddies PC Build Cost
By inighthawki on 3/27/2009 12:27:50 PM , Rating: 2
I disagree, even on 2GB on this computer, i've noticed the 64-bit versions of both vista and windows 7 to be much more responsive. When it comes to choosing between the two, there is absolutely no reason to choose 32-bit over 64-bit when you have a 64-bit compatible processor and new hardware. Believe what you want, but there aren't any driver issues these days for 64-bit windows.


RE: Buddies PC Build Cost
By Dark Legion on 3/27/2009 1:26:46 PM , Rating: 2
While in general I would agree, I ran into a big driver problem yesterday actually. I put a Linksys wireless pci card into a brand new computer, and put on Windows 7 64bit(the problem would not have been solved with vista x64 either) only to find out that Linksys does not use 64bit hardware, except in one usb wireless adapter, which means that they do not write drivers for 64bit and it will not work in 64bit windows. I have found out that there is the same problem across most manufacturers.


RE: Buddies PC Build Cost
By GodisanAtheist on 3/27/2009 2:56:23 PM , Rating: 2
Never got why the big dogs never seem to support 64-bit while guys like Airlink provide x64 drivers with their 10 dollar wireless cards.


RE: Buddies PC Build Cost
By SlyNine on 3/27/2009 4:26:10 PM , Rating: 2
My Linksys WMP54GS works fine in Vista 64 and Windows 7 64bit. It's a Linksys Wireless PCI card. So I'm not sure what your problem is.

I could try to get the driver and send it to you if you wish?


RE: Buddies PC Build Cost
By Dark Legion on 3/27/2009 1:10:07 PM , Rating: 2
With 32bit it wouldn't read all 4gb, and since he wanted to pay $500 he could use the extra money for a new printer, if needed.


RE: Buddies PC Build Cost
By Kefner on 3/27/2009 12:51:55 PM , Rating: 2
I suggested going with something graphics wise that may handle something like blu-ray better, but he said he would never use it, has a PS3 for that. I was just going with 2GB of RAM, but it's so insanely cheap, I said just go ahead and get 4. Plus this whole list was just something I threw together for him quick to get price ideas, the final purchase may include somethings different. For what he plans to do, I figured 8200 onboard would be good enough. Just thought it would be a nice price compare for this article.


RE: Buddies PC Build Cost
By MozeeToby on 3/27/2009 12:37:05 PM , Rating: 2
You don't break down prices, but just throwing it out there I would recommend going with a slightly more expensive power supply (maybe you did already, who knows).

You would think UL certified and meets the power requirements would do but I have seen far too many reviews of cheap power supplies that have literally melted if kept above 50% load for too long.


RE: Buddies PC Build Cost
By Kefner on 3/27/2009 2:04:24 PM , Rating: 2
I really didn't want to type that all out, but here is the PS i went with.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N8...

He has on board graphics, so no need for SLI or Crossfire compatibility, and if he does upgrade graphics down the road with a standalone card, the motherboard only has one PCI-E slot, so no need for SLI/Crossfire in the future either.


RE: Buddies PC Build Cost
By mattclary on 3/27/2009 2:43:11 PM , Rating: 1
Go with this. It has free shipping so the price difference is miniscule:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N8...


RE: Buddies PC Build Cost
By C'DaleRider on 3/27/2009 3:35:56 PM , Rating: 4
I'd have invested a little more money, like $10, and gotten a ps that's guaranteed not to be a spark-o-matic.

Realize that the Rosewill 500W you picked out is rated at 25C, or room temperature, and will derate its output severely when placed inside a hotter environment, such as an enclosed case.

Personally, for $45 after $10 MIR, with free shipping, I'd have bought a Corsair CX400W power supply.....(and there's a 10% promo code also avail. to use found in the email specials on the 'egg's opening page....making the effective price $39.)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N8...

It has more amperage on the +12V rail than the Rosewill or the PCP&C suggested (where today's computers get most of their power) and its output is rated at 50C, so won't derate its output as it gets hotter. Just IMHO....but in any case, forget the Rosewill and spend $10 for a "real" power supply.


RE: Buddies PC Build Cost
By corduroygt on 3/27/2009 6:31:54 PM , Rating: 2
Why buy a desktop if you're not going to play games? You can get a decent laptop for under $500.


RE: Buddies PC Build Cost
By Atheist Icon on 3/27/2009 10:32:54 PM , Rating: 2
I would go with an AMD board that has either the integrated 3100 or 3300. Support for AM2+/AM3 as well.


i'll give her just what she wanted
By dare2savefreedom on 3/27/2009 11:52:46 AM , Rating: 2
when she gets it home have her call me and I'll put linux ubuntu on it
and her training will be complete.




RE: i'll give her just what she wanted
By walk2k on 3/27/2009 12:30:39 PM , Rating: 5
Ok Comic Book Guy.

Yeah the girls all go crazy for a man who really knows how to install his "ubuntu".


RE: i'll give her just what she wanted
By Pirks on 3/27/2009 1:14:11 PM , Rating: 1
RE: i'll give her just what she wanted
By jjmcubed on 3/27/2009 4:33:09 PM , Rating: 4
And as Maddox himself would say...

SHUT the f&%#$ up!!! We don't care!!!


By Pirks on 3/28/2009 11:26:50 PM , Rating: 2
Why dontcha stfu about "overpriced" Macs first?


RE: i'll give her just what she wanted
By VooDooAddict on 3/27/2009 12:37:37 PM , Rating: 3
If she called me I could think of better things to do then installing linux.

.... sorry it's a weakness for redheads that I just can't shake.


By mattclary on 3/27/2009 1:35:10 PM , Rating: 3
Yeah, she was pretty cute.


By FITCamaro on 3/27/2009 1:42:51 PM , Rating: 2
It's because redheads are so rare. I have the same weakness.


Don't worry Pirks
By William Gaatjes on 3/29/2009 4:18:06 PM , Rating: 2
Even in a microsoft add, the customer (In these case the lovely young lady Lauren) really wanted an Apple over Microsoft. :) She just could not afford it.

Moral of the commercial, everybody would be having a mac if the macs where a little cheaper. Even microsoft is admitting that in their own commercial.

Painfull...

I would fire the marketing guy or girl who came up with these commercials immediately.

For the interested :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIS6G-HvnkU




RE: Don't worry Pirks
By Belard on 3/29/2009 5:20:05 PM , Rating: 2
And some point...

... with the cash, was anyone else expecting the Bang Bus?


RE: Don't worry Pirks
By William Gaatjes on 3/29/2009 5:31:58 PM , Rating: 2
Bang bus ?


RE: Don't worry Pirks
By Belard on 3/31/2009 11:39:57 AM , Rating: 3
Its a porn site, where these guys "find" stupid females (some girls, some skanks) on the side of the street and offer them $50~500 to get a ride and do adult material while in a van (not really bus, but "bang van" doesn't sound cool).

So the girl on the MS "cheap" Ad, is like "oooooooooooo Money!".

But Bang Bus is more true to MS... they drive off with a used skank on the side of a road and not give her the money that was promised.

How some of us feel when doing business with Microsoft.


RE: Don't worry Pirks
By William Gaatjes on 3/31/2009 12:38:46 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
But Bang Bus is more true to MS... they drive off with a used skank on the side of a road and not give her the money that was promised. How some of us feel when doing business with Microsoft.


Hehehe.

quote:
Its a porn site, where these guys "find" stupid females (some girls, some skanks) on the side of the street and offer them $50~500 to get a ride and do adult material while in a van (not really bus, but "bang van" doesn't sound cool).


Well, that sure sounds like a format script with actors and actrices.

The Bang van, it has something to be honest. :)
Makes me think of the A team. Hmm where does the A stand for.

Dear lord.
Erase erase erase erase erase erase erase erase erase erase erase...


RE: Don't worry Pirks
By Belard on 4/3/2009 9:07:49 AM , Rating: 2
New from Microsoft!

Bang PC!


RE: Don't worry Pirks
By cunning plan on 3/30/2009 10:03:58 AM , Rating: 2
I was poised ready, but just some rubbish article about Mac and MS instead :(


RE: Don't worry Pirks
By Pirks on 3/29/2009 6:02:39 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
everybody would be having a mac if the macs where a little cheaper
And everybody would be having a Lexus if they were cheaper. Or maybe BMW or something like that. You got my idea, don't you?


Wow, 358 posts in two days!
By Belard on 3/29/2009 5:21:28 PM , Rating: 2
Comments tends to tapper out around a 100 or so at the end... but will this one hit 400? What is the record?

Good thing its just a TV AD.




RE: Wow, 358 posts in two days!
By Pirks on 3/29/2009 6:10:22 PM , Rating: 2
Say thanks to Whaaaclown here, without his mindless and obsessive trolling we'd have maybe 200 posts by now ;)


RE: Wow, 358 posts in two days!
By Belard on 3/31/2009 11:41:36 AM , Rating: 2
Over 400 strong.

Thanks for your support. Put on your PC Hat, because we're not MAC hats or Windows hats... just pure PC HATs.


RE: Wow, 358 posts in two days!
By Belard on 4/3/2009 9:11:28 AM , Rating: 2
Just one more push for 500!

We can do it... someone has got to be angery and not going to take it anymore!


RE: Wow, 358 posts in two days!
By Pirks on 4/3/2009 1:38:07 PM , Rating: 2
No way after Whaaaclown escaped. Who's gonna troll here now instead of him? ;)


RE: Wow, 358 posts in two days!
By Whowhatwhen on 4/3/2009 4:16:50 PM , Rating: 2
Doesn't look to me like he ran away. More like he left an idiot to his own devices.

Judging by the majority of your posts here, I would say he did the right thing.


RE: Wow, 358 posts in two days!
By Pirks on 4/3/2009 4:28:47 PM , Rating: 2
Judging by your inability to understand facts (the ones I showed Whaaaclown just before he escaped) you are pretty similar to that clown :)


RE: Wow, 358 posts in two days!
By rj78 on 4/3/2009 4:33:44 PM , Rating: 2
Posting in an EPIC thread wooooohoooo!

P.S. - Oh yeah.. and pirks, you are one stupid mofo hahahhahahah!!!!

P.S.S. - WTB 500 postssssss


RE: Wow, 358 posts in two days!
By rj78 on 4/3/2009 4:36:31 PM , Rating: 1
Pirks you are an amazing idiot LOLOLOLOL.

You are giving my coworkers and I here endless laughs. I just cannot believe there actually exists someone as fucking stupid and ignorant as yourself... dont get me wrong.. I like it! It's both funny, and sad at the same time!

You go guuuuurl!!!


anyone have a link?
By mattclary on 3/27/2009 10:52:06 AM , Rating: 1
Would like to see it, can't find it on youtube yet.




RE: anyone have a link?
RE: anyone have a link?
By dare2savefreedom on 3/27/2009 12:08:10 PM , Rating: 1
brandon - tsk tsk

how much are they paying you for the m$n link.

i looked up to u until this.


RE: anyone have a link?
By bighairycamel on 3/27/2009 1:57:44 PM , Rating: 4
Yah, shame on him because everyone knows Youtube is the only viable video source on the internet........ </sarcasm>


RE: anyone have a link?
By mrle on 3/27/2009 11:01:20 AM , Rating: 5
re
By Ranari on 3/27/2009 10:47:36 AM , Rating: 5
This should prove fairly successful for Microsoft. At least, the timing is right. During economic recessions/slowdowns, marketing savings to people becomes a very effective advertising strategy. I don't dislike Macs, but I do know they are very expensive for what they are. They're just PCs with a different operating system...

It sucks that both companies have to resort to these sleezy marketing tactics, but time for Apple to feel a taste of their own medicine.




RE: re
By MadMan007 on 3/27/2009 11:27:57 AM , Rating: 5
I find the MS ads a lot less sleazy than the half-truth at best, pure FUD at worst Mac ads.


It's about time.
By Hifi311 on 3/27/2009 2:44:25 PM , Rating: 2
Getting back to the point of the article, the fact is that Mac's with lesser specs cost more. It's irritating when the only real difference is the OS. That's always been the most idiotic aspect of this mac vs pc thing. Less performance for more money.

And frankly, as I've used OS X on my PC (yes it's relatively easy to do provided your hardware isn't toooo current) and aside from using desktop apps (Office, cd burning) I always ended up erasing it after a few weeks b/c I'd end up switching to Windows to do video encoding, blu-ray ripping, gaming, etc.

So it's about time MS started hitting Apple on their idiotic pricing.

The iPhone is another classic example. You have 1 iPhone, but you charge an extra $100 for the 16gb vs the 8gb just b/c there is no option to insert a MicroSD card. Wow. Winner.

But I digress. Go M$.




RE: It's about time.
By Pirks on 3/27/09, Rating: 0
RE: It's about time.
By just4U on 3/27/2009 4:34:02 PM , Rating: 3
I agree it's not the only difference, as Apple is allowed to throw in programs that would get microsoft sued up the ying yang.. but other then asthetics there's really not much difference hardware wise. As Illustrated earlier you can build a comparable PC for nearly half the price.

Even those that don't build PC's which really is just about everyone can get those built for them and only make a marginal dent in the overall price. (say 75-300 depending on who you deal with.. or go oem where they are likely to save due to buying power)


RE: It's about time.
By Pirks on 3/29/2009 1:29:53 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
other then asthetics there's really not much difference hardware wise
Apple's multitouch touchpad, magsafe and legendary battery efficiency have ABSOLUTELY NO RELATION to aesthetics. You're just too blind to notice these very obvious facts.


RE: It's about time.
By JHBoricua on 3/31/2009 2:52:13 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
legendary battery efficiency
Legendary?

6 out of 8 Macbooks we bought last year had their battery fail in less than a 8 months and had to be sent in for service. Matter of fact some failed within 3 months. That's a 75% failure. Now THAT's what I call legendary.


RE: It's about time.
By Pirks on 3/31/2009 4:08:20 PM , Rating: 2
I'm a PC
By phatboye on 3/27/2009 12:28:27 PM , Rating: 5
Personally I liked the "I'm a PC" ads way better and was sad to see those ads go.




By anachronism on 3/28/2009 1:49:54 PM , Rating: 3
In November 2007, I decided to buy a new state-of-the art laptop. I decided to get an HP dv9500t which, at the time, was the PC Mag best buy for laptops.

I read about the problems with Vista, so I wanted to hedge my bets. I bought it from Costco - they let you return a computer within 90 days, no questions asked.

I was able to configure the laptop using a nice HP utility. I selected almost all of the available top-of-the line components - processor speed, display size, graphics, 2 physical drives, memory, etc. The price was just under $1600.

When I got the laptop, I was appalled by the sluggish performance, both processing and, in particular, network connections. My Vista laptop was taking twice as long to bring up websites compared to my wife's laptop and my old desktop, both running XP! This was for both wired and wireless connections. I read about and tried various Vista performance tweaks but nothing seemed to help. Performance was unacceptable.

So I wondered if I should return the laptop and try a Mac for the first time. I looked at some of Macs at an Apple store and I was impressed by the desktop presentation and the multimedia apps - very snazzy and excellent performance. I did some research and it looked like I could hope to run my Windows apps on a Mac with some extra software.

So I priced a Mac laptop that was comparable to my HP dv9500t. I was surprised to find a Mac that was almost identical in components and specs. It was a little inferior to my laptop in some of the specs - e.g., slower processor speed, single drive - but it was IDENTICAL to one of the HP configurations. I figure the same manufacturer must provide the guts to both HP and Apple. But the Mac's price was just under $3000, almost TWICE the price for the nearly identical HP laptop!!

So I kept the PC. Initially, I explored installing XP in place of Vista. There was a very active online users group that was making great progress in making XP work on the HP dv9500 laptops, creating packages of drivers and instructions for making the switch. I also considered Vista and XP dual boot.

But I ended up sticking with Vista. Vista updates were constantly being automatically applied. A driver update suddenly fixed my slow network connection problem and performance was about the same as XP.

I'm not a fan of Vista, but my laptop does everything I need it to do. And the extreme price difference made the decision a no-brainer.




By Targon on 4/2/2009 9:12:06 AM , Rating: 2
As you discovered, the drivers were a huge part of the Vista performance problems you encountered, and HP being a bit slow to release new drivers only made it a bit more difficult for people to discover what the problem was(drivers released in July for the chipset in that machine would have solved your problems sooner).

I have mentioned in another post that a big issue for people is how quickly a Mac comes out of the box in comparison to a Windows based system. This could be easily improved by Microsoft if they would re-order how tasks are handled during that initial start-up. Make it so Vista(or Windows 7) does the benchmarking phase and other tasks during an "opening movie", and then ask the basic questions AFTER, in much the same way Apple does with MacOS. It really would be as simple as that. Also, a question, "your system has not been benchmarked yet, would you like to do this now?" If people could skip the benchmarking in Vista, it would cut down a lot of time during the initial setup.

Vista also has a feature to pre-load quite a bit of information, and it takes a few days after setting things up for Vista to be running as well as people would want it to. This results in a higher amount of memory being used, but once the OS figures out what applications you will be running regularly, it DOES result in some speed increases. As with anything else, you can turn off that feature, and the memory overhead will go down by quite a bit, but you lose some of the responsiveness as well.

As a final note, people use Internet Explorer, and wonder why things seem slow at times. There are MANY reasons why people prefer Firefox or Opera over Internet Explorer, and performance is one of them.


By phazers on 3/27/2009 2:20:33 PM , Rating: 4
We could have told Bill Gates how to counteract those Mac Attacks, if only he wanted to listen and not ignore them. Hoping the Mac ads would just go away turned out to be a rather poor choice, since they took on a life of their own. Bill should have looked at some of the Youtube Mac-spoof ads..




Brilliant new Hyundai commercial campaign...
By Doormat on 3/27/2009 4:28:13 PM , Rating: 2
We gave Lauren $10,000 to find a car with dual front airbags. She goes to a Mercedes Benz dealership to find that they don't have any new cars for $10,000. =^(

Then she goes to the local Hyundai dealership, where she finds a new Hyundai Accent for $9,970*. Wow, what an awesome car!

* http://www.hyundaiusa.com/vehicle/accent/trim/gs3d...




By just4U on 3/27/2009 4:48:43 PM , Rating: 2
Your comparison would be like Microsoft's ad suggesting Lauren could have picked up a brand new $250 Laptop. They didn't go that route but instead went with something that in general had better hardware at a lesser cost to illustrate their point.


Jason, do your homework better next time.....
By mondo1234 on 3/27/2009 6:42:20 PM , Rating: 2
Its Fake.....or a sucka$$ company built it!
Alls you have to do is watch as she walks into the apple store (.13 sec into it) and there is this bald balmer looking guy with a striped shirt on, then as she walks out he is still passing by the store? Either he is really slow, or she didn't go in. None the less, it has lost creditability in my mind.




By mondo1234 on 3/27/2009 8:04:51 PM , Rating: 2
Hate to reply to my own post, but its not fake.
I cant believe MS spent $300 million on an ad campaign like this. They could have got it in trade for a single Vista Ultimate license.


Apple Innovation
By isoD on 3/28/2009 12:05:55 AM , Rating: 3
These days Apple does use these same hardware components for the underlying core. I think Apple tends to focus much of it's efforts in aesthetic design. With their personal computers and mp3 players they have made industry leading strides by sizing things down to an unheard of level. However, I don't think one can argue that if there is a MAC OS running on Intel/Nvidia/Geil hardware that this computer is entirely Apple made. So, simply put, there are mostly minor differences in GUI/UI and a few hardly noteworthy "mac only" features to justify anything like a $300-700 price hike over "less enticing" Microsoft/Linux OS builds. Yes I did get this account because I was absolutely shocked that pirks would troll that hard. I can see he is focused somewhat on how mature each one of the posters here on DT are. PIRKS FOCUS ON THE TOPIC AT HAND. Why do you assert that if two objects have combustion engines and rubber wheels somewhere that they are both cars and at that BOTH CHEVY'S?

Lets see, if Apple comes up with a design that overwhelming obsoletes the last hardware and decides to charge $2500 for it, you know I'd buy it to game on. edit on. render. whatever.

I've got to tone up for this.....<furled brow>




RE: Apple Innovation
By Pirks on 3/29/2009 1:37:05 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
BOTH CHEVY'S?
You misunderstood my posts either. I never said that.


I'm not really certain why they would respond at all...
By can on 3/28/2009 10:24:42 AM , Rating: 2
Microsoft's business isn't threatened in any real way by Apple. I'm not sure why they'd undertake an ad campaign that won't significantly affect the percentages of Windows users.




By Belard on 3/28/2009 10:55:52 AM , Rating: 2
With Mac only having about 3.5% of the world market, does that also take into consideration the number of pirated copies of XP and Vista installs?

Personally, if Apple wants to create a bigger market, they REALLY need to make verion of OS-X for general users and sell it for $100.

All they would need is Specific requirements for hardware supported to keep the calls coming in "It doesn't work with my Voodoo3 card".

1 - Any AMD64 or Intel Core2 class CPU
2 - ATi 4000 series or GeForce GT 1xx/2xx video cards.
3 - Intel or AMD chipsets of current (P45~5x / AMD 7x0) - these are the TRICKY ones because motherboards require custom drivers for their onboard video/nic/audio. To resolve this, Apple would have to work with ASUS, Gigabte and certify specific boards to work with the OS.

Then they could give MS a run for thier money.

I don't see it happening.


Most amazing thing about Microsoft PCs
By chizow on 3/28/2009 11:32:15 AM , Rating: 2
The ability to shift time and space and accelerate growth!

Kylie @4.5 before PC:
http://www.gizmodo.com.au/2009/02/latest_im_a_pc_a...

Kylie 2 months later, after PC lol:
https://cid-1a21782f49102306.skydrive.live.com/sel...

These ads are pretty good though, also seems like Apple has cut back their ad campaign a lot too.




By Belard on 3/28/2009 11:51:40 PM , Rating: 2
Are we supposed to see something besides some sort of MS log-in?

I don't get it.


theres
By dare2savefreedom on 3/27/09, Rating: 0
RE: theres
By Whaaambulance on 3/27/2009 12:19:55 PM , Rating: 1
Would you mind not cluttering up this article with your garbage posts? Thanks.


RE: theres
By Pirks on 3/29/2009 6:06:59 PM , Rating: 2
Kettle just called pot black :))) LOOOOLzzz :)))


DUUUUH
By doormatderek on 3/27/2009 6:12:23 PM , Rating: 3
Seriously, what is wrong with that guy.. Comparing the internals of Macs/PCs is like comparing the difference between the SAME car, just different options, like one with a spoiler or not. There is NO difference, other than the Operating System. The engines of Lexus/Chevy are two completely difference pieces of hardware, more like AMD/INTEL. Both do the same thing but are totally different products. EVERYTHING in a MAC you can get in a PC for MUCH cheaper, all you get with a MAC is a shiny case with a picture of an apple on it, AND the MAC os. That is it. What don't you understand Pirk?
I feel stupider for having read almost every comment in this blog, just to get to the end so I could comment myself..and wasted at least 15 minutes.. But i wanted to comment myself.




Yellow journalism
By djreedps on 3/27/2009 6:21:44 PM , Rating: 2
This was obviously written by a blogger with a significant bias towards Microsoft.

Here are some quotes for the article illustrating this:

quote:

... Bill Gates once famously said ...
... Apple campaign which was based largely on exaggeration, vague accusations, and unfounded insults .
... it [Microsoft] recruited Jerry Seinfeld, only to see the expensive commercials meet with mixed reviews.
Now Microsoft has come up with perhaps its cleverest barb yet ...
The ad gurus at Crispin Porter + Boguksy, who Microsoft has hired ...
Apple's sales of its pricey desktops and laptops ...
... PCs continued to post better sales, thanks to ultra-cheap netbook sales.


Here is the reality. I neither use Apple nor Microsoft products. But I did work as a computer repair guy in a sole proprietorship so I know what I am talking about. The Windows problems I fixed were horrible. It would take me a very long time because of all the viruses, registry problems, device driver problems, etc. The Mac problems were easy. They usually took very little time to fix. Only one problem, with an update to Tiger on an old PowerPC Mac took a long time for me to fix. But once I figured out that I just needed to download and install the update manually, it wasn't hard at all. I never once encountered virus problems on Macs. I never had to remove the Confiker worm, which is getting more and more difficult to remove, from a Mac.

I agree that Macs are more expensive up front. But they just work. To most people I would recommend a Mac. To the rest I recommend Linux. I don't recommend Windows to anyone. It is just not worth it. You end up spending so much time pulling your hair out and paying to fix the freaking Windows problems. Even with Vista, I saw a nasty UAC problem which never completely got resolved. Plus most of the time Vista was a dog.

So, Jason Mick, if you want to write a factual article as opposed to an opinion piece, then at least try next time to not be so biased. For anyone else who wants to see how biased Mr. Mick is, click on the blog link next to his name at the top of the article. You will find several more anti-Apple hit pieces.




RE: Yellow journalism
By Whaaambulance on 3/27/2009 6:50:39 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
This was obviously written by a blogger with a significant bias towards Microsoft.


Apparently you aren't a regular reader here. Jason Mick is definitely not a Microsoft lover. Infact he is just the opposite.

quote:
But I did work as a computer repair guy


Really? Was that your official title? I can tell you must have a significant educational background for that position.

quote:
I never once encountered virus problems on Macs


I have said previously in this thread... the reason being 'marketshare'. When Apple has the same marketshare as Microsoft, they will have the same issues.

See here how easily hackers destroyed Mac 'security'.

http://blogs.zdnet.com/security/?p=2917

quote:
But they just work


God... another one... please read this page carefully. I know it probably will not help you, but you never know...

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=ma...

quote:
then at least try next time to not be so biased


If that isn't the pot calling the kettle black, I don't know what is...


pirks
By vistaisfine on 3/28/2009 1:33:12 AM , Rating: 3
pc is to mac as lexus is to toyota.

chevy... right. sure you may know about computers, but why try to argue your points using an analogy that compares computers to something you know very little about?




RE: pirks
By Pirks on 3/29/09, Rating: 0
Warranty?
By RjBass on 3/28/2009 8:35:53 PM , Rating: 3
I am failing to understand why the warranty is an issue.

In many of the posts above, people are talking about the better warranty with a Mac as opposed to a cheaper build-it-yourself system.

I think it is obvious that if the buyer has the ability to assemble the proper items him or her self then they are providing their own warranty. Simply call Newegg or Zipzoomfly for the RMA # and be done with it. I hate most big box brand customer service centers. Even Apples. The best thing Apple has going for it is that you can take your system right into their store (if one is located near you) but even then, I would still prefer my own brand of warranty service over anybody else. So in the end, the lack of warranty claim people are making is not really valid.




point out they're the same
By poohbear on 3/29/2009 1:48:07 AM , Rating: 3
To really devastate apple, all microsoft needs to do is point out that an apple and pc are virtually the same thing nowadays sicne the hardware is the same. u're paying a ridiculous amount more for the same thing but w/ the apple u're paying for the name. If u told someone 10 years ago that they'd hafta pay a premium for the Apple brandname they'd laugh at u.




Status Symbol Mac Is Not
By starryman on 3/30/2009 2:13:52 AM , Rating: 1
There's been comparison about computers and luxury cars. I don't see the connection. Especially when luxury cars are status symbols and computers aren't. Please no debates - if luxury cars weren't status symbols there wouldn't be any cars over $35K.

Regardless of the specifications or what's under the hood of a PC or a Mac and the the fact they are quite similar in user-experience (mouse, click, drop-down menus). Computers aren't considered "status" symbols. Girls and women don't sit around and say "ooooh Steve just got a Mac!" Then they all swoon helplessly. Nope.

Luxury things... are about percieved status. The person driving in that Lexus is somebody. Is it stupid to think so? Sure because we are human and stupidity is part of our OS version 1. So while people will spend more for a Lexus than a Chevy... people will be impressed with the person behind the Lexus(of course the smart ass ones aren't impressed).

Now for people who buy Macs and spend extra $$$... are they buying it because it's some kind of status? I hope not but the extra price they pay it seems like are. Macs are priced as if they are a Lexus or Mercedes. But in fact not.

Lexus or Mercedes are not only status symbols... they are Rolling Status symbols. Where ever they drive people take notice. And yes girls and women do take notice of a Lexus or Mercedes and some are even swooned. Hence you pay for extra for driving the Lexus or Mercedes or BMW. Your choice of premium car is yours to choose. Luxury cars can even make you the "man's man" in many cases but never with a Mac.

So... while pissing money away on a luxury car is irrational and quite stupid there is satsifaction of having status (success is the best revenge) and impress some scantilly clad babes. But pissing money away on a Mac is simply that. You don't get the status symbol and the only person you impress is the hippie dude or chick at the Apple store.

While I own a Mercedes and Porsche, I also have a Honda Accord. It's laughable but unless you own a luxury car, you know the X-factor you get when pulling up in a Mercedes or Porsche. Never in the Honda. And with the rolling status comes perks and opportunities (I won't go into details but if I drove clients or met up with clients in the wife's Accord, I wouldn't be closing as many business deals). While I can splurge for a Mac, which I wouldn't, I find it more of an irrational buy than a Mercedes or Lexus or Porsche.




RE: Status Symbol Mac Is Not
By Pirks on 3/30/2009 3:20:33 AM , Rating: 2
I don't agree with your point of view that people buy premium cars solely for prestige. It's plain wrong. Every car has its own character, its own little perks. They are not all the same, and computers too. Hence people choose cars and computers for the sum of factors, such as peformance, price, comfort, prestige, color, quietness, economy, brand, number of cores/cylinders etc etc etc - there are gazillions of possible factors people take into account. Most Windows worshipping morons like Whaaaclown here have absolutely no idea about that.

So yes some people do buy expensive stuff for prestige but far from all of them. A lot buy things for comfort, and it's just the rule of thumb that comfortable high quality thing will inevitably cost more than cheapo disposable thing. It's just a consequence - comfort is a primary factor, comfort drives price, price drives brand and coolness. In other words - cars and computers are not comfortable because they are cool and hip, it's THE OPPOSITE - goods become cool and hip AFTER people realize they are so comfortable.

Please think about this idea for a moment. Does it sound rational to you?


Hey I´m a Linux.
By greylica on 3/27/2009 1:23:56 PM , Rating: 2
Left me U$ 250 on the pocket...

MWahaha !




DUUUUH
By doormatderek on 3/27/2009 6:11:29 PM , Rating: 2
Seriously, what is wrong with that guy.. Comparing the internals of Macs/PCs is like comparing the difference between the SAME car, just different options, like one with a spoiler or not. There is NO difference, other than the Operating System. The engines of Lexus/Chevy are two completely difference pieces of hardware, more like AMD/INTEL. Both do the same thing but are totally different products. EVERYTHING in a MAC you can get in a PC for MUCH cheaper, all you get with a MAC is a shiny case with a picture of an apple on it, AND the MAC os. That is it. What don't you understand Pirk?
I feel stupider for having read almost every comment in this blog, just to get to the end so I could comment myself..and wasted at least 15 minutes.. But i wanted to comment myself.




I use both
By Smokey48 on 3/27/2009 9:19:24 PM , Rating: 2
My wife's PC is OK, but incessantly running [very necessary] anti-virus programs is a big time waster. I don't need to bother with anti-virus for my Mac because as someone commented elsewhere on this article:

...a carefully prepared months in advance hack that drops a browser using an undisclosed hole, which the judges had to activiate by clicking a link.

In the meantime, tens of thousands of PCs were hacked remotely by a script/trojan/virus which operates automatically from a botnet, and installs itself without any user interaction whatsoever, and morphs to avoid detection, which forces Windows users to run multiple layers of security just to connect to the internet, never mind downloading programs. And even when they get online the mere act of clicking a link or reading an email can infect their system...

So I prefer my Mac.

And if you're so worried about money, why'd you vote for Obama?




By William Gaatjes on 3/29/2009 4:09:22 PM , Rating: 2
I would not mind.

Since she pocketed the difference she can celebrate it with a nice italian dinner.




By Casual Observer on 3/30/2009 12:11:20 PM , Rating: 2
Competition is what drove windows to exist.
Xerox this!!!




Except on dial-up
By SSNSeawolf on 3/31/2009 10:20:24 AM , Rating: 2
This thread is now epic.




Future Apple Commercial Idea
By ultimatebob on 4/2/2009 1:10:12 PM , Rating: 2
Wouldn't it be great to see "Lauren" in an Apple commercial about six months from now? She could be moaning the blues with Mac and PC, complaining about how her computer got infected with spyware a few weeks after the 90 day trial of her Anti-Virus software ran out :)




By sapiens74 on 3/28/2009 1:04:51 AM , Rating: 1
I purchased a MAC Laptop at $999 Comes with Backup software, disk burning software which can burn images natively, comes with Iilfe Suite which is simply easier to use than the windows counterpart.

I purchased a PC, and it cost me $600 for a laptop (Best Buy pulled from Hot Deals) AV cost me 50 bucks for a 3 user license, though that is per year. Norton Ghost cost me another 50 bucks (i like ghost).

There is a $300 difference in the machines but the MAC OS runs circles around the Windows machine in stability, speed and integration of the apps I care about (music, pictures and home movies)

IS the price premium of $300 worth it for the Apple? You Betcha.

It simply works. No maintenance. That's worth it for me. It may not be to some people who want a computer for as little as possible. I hope Apple addresses this in the current economy.

The MAC OSX and Ilife suites run better and are more polished then the windows counterpart. I hope Apple doesn't price themselves out of too many homes. A price tweak here and there could double their market share :)




Thanks for the Free Advertisemnt
By hiscross on 3/27/09, Rating: 0
I saw this ad last night three times...
By Doormat on 3/27/09, Rating: -1
RE: I saw this ad last night three times...
By FITCamaro on 3/27/2009 11:09:54 AM , Rating: 5
Does Apple's dick in your mouth taste good? I'd assume it has a fruity flavor.

I can afford a Mac too. But lets see, do I want a Mac which offers me nothing over a much cheaper PC? Or do I want a cheaper PC which (in the world of desktops) lets me pick and choose what parts I want and then I can buy something else with the savings.

Having money to spend doesn't mean you have to spend it.


RE: I saw this ad last night three times...
By Whaaambulance on 3/27/2009 11:16:26 AM , Rating: 2
LOL! A little harsh, FIT, but you do have a point.

Most Apple lovers pretty much fit this profile....

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=ma...

I use mac and pc, but given the choice I would always opt to save money. I mean, I am going to need a quarter bag for the weekend while gaming on my PC....


By Pythias on 3/30/2009 1:02:52 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
After the recent Apple conference, Mac fans were elated. One person was quoted as saying "I've had a Macintosh now for a total of 35 days, and I'm really excited to be part of the Mac community." Part of the Mac community? It's a computer, not a social movement, asshole!


roTfl.

Maddox is the shit.

Now, scuse me whilst I give my wife a "dutch oven suprise".


RE: I saw this ad last night three times...
By Doormat on 3/27/2009 11:26:03 AM , Rating: 1
Exactly, it offers you nothing more, so don't buy it.

For me it offers a nicer experience than a PC (OS + iLife + Time Machine + not having to reinstall Windows every 4 months). I'll try Win7 when it hits later this year and evaluate if its any better for me than XP.

MS isn't all bad - I still love my WHS box. Its maintenance free pretty much and works great as a file store.


By Raidin on 3/27/2009 12:50:30 PM , Rating: 2
How much do your files cost?


By ExarKun333 on 3/27/2009 1:17:26 PM , Rating: 4
Your a fool if you need to reinstall windows every four months. Do you need someone to help you wipe your a$$ too? Maybe Apple will come out with a new product you can drool over called "iWipe".


RE: I saw this ad last night three times...
By piroroadkill on 3/27/2009 1:28:48 PM , Rating: 4
Who the fuck fucks their windows machine so bad you have to reinstall every 4 months?

I've never reinstalled windows on this machine or my previous machine, and they work perfectly fine


By mattclary on 3/27/2009 1:43:24 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Who the fuck fucks their windows machine so bad you have to reinstall every 4 months?


LOL!!! +10


RE: I saw this ad last night three times...
By FITCamaro on 3/27/2009 1:44:00 PM , Rating: 2
My dad. :(


By Pirks on 3/29/2009 2:00:35 PM , Rating: 1
It's your problem, FIT, not your dad's. It's YOU who gave him administrator account. So blame yourself.

I never give my parents admin accounts and that's why I never reinstall Windows on their machine. Learn from me FIT :P


RE: I saw this ad last night three times...
By Doormat on 3/27/2009 1:50:08 PM , Rating: 1
I'm about to reinstall in a few weeks, enough of the install new piece of software, play with it for a while, remove it. Repeat a few times a week, especially after a project (like trying to find the best combo of software to downconvert BR movies to ATV/iPhone) its a lot of software that gets installed, tried and then removed.

I guess I do a lot more with my PC than you do.


RE: I saw this ad last night three times...
By Whaaambulance on 3/27/2009 2:00:01 PM , Rating: 1
If you know how to properly maintain your PC, you shouldn't have to reformat ever. Unless you bork the registry or the file system, there is no reason to have to reformat.

Installing and removing applications only fragments your HDD and sometimes leaves junk in the registry. There are plenty of tools on the market to handle both issues.


RE: I saw this ad last night three times...
By Doormat on 3/27/2009 4:30:39 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
sometimes leaves junk in the registry


You mean usually.

You know what I do on a mac when I want to uninstall a program? I drag it to the trash. Thats it. If I'm picky, I'll go see if it made a directory in my ~/Library folder and trash that too if its there.


RE: I saw this ad last night three times...
By Parhel on 3/27/2009 5:03:01 PM , Rating: 3
I'd just drag the whole computer to the trash.


By PARANOID365 on 3/28/2009 2:11:18 AM , Rating: 1
Ah shit that was rich !! Thanks for the comment man, it totally made my day :o)


By nosfe on 3/27/2009 5:32:24 PM , Rating: 2
good luck doing that with adobe applications which require activation


By Parhel on 3/27/2009 3:08:30 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Who the @#!$ #@!$s their windows machine so bad you have to reinstall every 4 months?


I reinstall about twice a year. Once because either my HD crashed or I ruined my installation, and once just because I'm OCD.


By Lightnix on 3/27/2009 4:15:48 PM , Rating: 2
Dunno, I've been running my same Windows XP install since about October 2007 and it hasn't let me down yet, still pretty snappy given the sheer amount of crap I've stuck on it - and considering, much to my surprise, that it survived a motherboard upgrade.


RE: I saw this ad last night three times...
By Doormat on 3/27/09, Rating: 0
RE: I saw this ad last night three times...
By Whaaambulance on 3/27/2009 2:24:22 PM , Rating: 2
It got rated up because he is spot-on. While I don't agree with his wording, he makes a valid argument. But then again, by you using the phrase "Wintard", it puts you in the same category that you are insulting.


RE: I saw this ad last night three times...
By Pirks on 3/29/2009 8:33:12 PM , Rating: 1
Oh come on! Be honest at least ONCE Whaaa! :)) You know very well it's got rated up because this forum is full of Wintards like you ;) ANY post insulting Apple or Macs gets rated up to 5 here just like that. Easy recipe to get one's rating up to 5 is to consistently bash Apple here and do nothing else. The more you bash Apple or Macs the faster your rating climbs to 5. It's a no brainer, Mr. So Called "Objective" Poster Whaaa, hahahaaa :)))


RE: I saw this ad last night three times...
By epyon96 on 3/30/2009 11:58:53 PM , Rating: 3
Something about your comments are not adding up. You are probably right in your assessment that Dailytech is predominately PC-users. And it probably has a bias too.

But you really do a poor job presenting your case of how Apple MAC's deserve their 300-500$ price premium. Ignoring all the flames in this blog so far, I think I can summarize your arguments.

1. So far, you used your car analogy which got ripped to pieces by tons of people.

2. Then you try to go into how a computer is more than the sum of its parts by going into quality issues and branding. Unfortunately that argument doesn't really fly either because there's little reason to suspect that Apple's quality checks are any better than the other large manufacturers. Warrenty and service calls are a function of the price of the warrenty provider and to my knowledge, most of the service providers of various manufacturers are simply outsourced shops. As for the brand, isn't that what this new MSFT ad-campaign is all about?

If seeing these "wintards" insulting you bothers you so much, why would you present such a weak case for Apple in a PC-centric forum? If you want to pitch Apple, your ammunition lies in the usability of the OSX and why it's superior to Win7. I'm not a believer of that koolide but I know that's something that is definitely pitchable and you will have supporters that can back you up with technical prowess which you seem to be unable to provide. Even though I am not partial to that argument, I respect that argument and it's simply a judgment call.


By Pirks on 3/31/2009 1:00:59 AM , Rating: 2
Car analogy and "computer is just chips" are the same thing actually. My point of view for which I get constantly bashed by Whaaaidiots here is that computer just like car has many non-obvious qualities to it. Just like engine by itself does not define car the chips do not define computer. For example two cars with same engine have different electronic equipment and interior materials. People who compare them clearly see that they are not exactly the same cars. Take two computers now, with same chips inside but with different cooling systems and different touchpads. Are they the same? Definitely not. I mean, that's obvious for any sane person. Only a few braindead zealots like Whaaa and Potato keep their eyes tightly shut, because if they admit the obvious facts above - their real identity (being midless trolls that is) will immediately be obvious to anyone. Hence they will do anything they can to troll here, while others as dumb as these two just keep downrating me.

People who read this forum are at the same time geeky and stupid. It's hard to believe and I thought that DT auduence would be not like that. What a surprise it was - DT readers can't get even the most basic and obvious facts, like the ones I just stated above.

You see, there's no point in discussing intricate and complex differences in Win7 vs Snow Leopard for example. The DT audience is not mature enough to participate in such a discussion. How can I talk to them about complex things like OS architecture if they can't get BASICS. _BASICS_!!! Understand?


RE: I saw this ad last night three times...
By ChickenMcTest on 3/27/2009 3:44:18 PM , Rating: 3
I think this is most users main gripe with Mac. The problem is they don't let you choose what you want to pay for. You have to take one of their prepackaged systems with ridiculous setups.

Take the Mac Pro it has a 2.93GHz Xeon 5500 or something like that paired with a NVIDIA GeForce GT 120????? Why why why does Apple think that is a good idea? Also why does the desktop come with Blue tooth support? I would like to be better able to pick and choose my configuration. I would rather channel some of that money into a better CPU, graphics, or hey back into my wallet.

Mac is giving you what you pay for, but you don't get to pick what you pay for.


RE: I saw this ad last night three times...
By rzrshrp on 3/27/2009 11:13:04 AM , Rating: 4
Thought I can't ever see myself buying an apple, you were cool until the second to last sentence. Your assumption annoys me and just because someone can afford a more expensive product doesn't mean that they should always get it. You have to justify the price difference of hundreds of dollars and if the FUNCTIONALITY of the machine is worth that much to you, so be it.


RE: I saw this ad last night three times...
By Doormat on 3/27/09, Rating: -1
By nixoofta on 3/27/2009 1:55:08 PM , Rating: 2
Fischer-Price sux! Tonka Rules!


RE: I saw this ad last night three times...
By Pirks on 3/27/2009 1:35:01 PM , Rating: 1
Define "FUNCTIONALITY" please


RE: I saw this ad last night three times...
By Whaaambulance on 3/27/2009 2:01:51 PM , Rating: 2
The opposite of your thinking would be functional thinking. Use that analogy.


RE: I saw this ad last night three times...
By Pirks on 3/27/09, Rating: 0
By Pirks on 3/27/2009 4:22:09 PM , Rating: 2
"wan't" ==>> "wasn't"


RE: I saw this ad last night three times...
By doormatderek on 3/27/2009 6:14:59 PM , Rating: 2
Seriously, what is wrong with THIS guy.. Sounds like a spoiled brat who gets whatever he asks his mommy for....
Comparing the internals of Macs/PCs is like comparing the difference between the SAME car, just different options, like one with a spoiler or not. There is NO difference, other than the Operating System. The engines of Lexus/Chevy are two completely difference pieces of hardware, more like AMD/INTEL. Both do the same thing but are totally different products. EVERYTHING in a MAC you can get in a PC for MUCH cheaper, all you get with a MAC is a shiny case with a picture of an apple on it, AND the MAC os. That is it. What don't you understand Pirks?
I feel stupider for having read almost every comment in this blog, just to get to the end so I could comment myself..and wasted at least 15 minutes.. But i wanted to comment myself.


RE: I saw this ad last night three times...
By Pirks on 3/27/2009 8:36:32 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
different options, like one with a spoiler or not
So different OS is like a different spoiler in a car? Definitely wrong. It's much more like a different engine in a car, NOT a spoiler.


By mindless1 on 3/27/2009 11:17:46 PM , Rating: 2
Engine is still hardware, it's far more like different firmware in the car's ECM module.


By CrazyBernie on 3/27/2009 11:30:55 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
So different OS is like a different spoiler in a car? Definitely wrong. It's much more like a different engine in a car, NOT a spoiler.


Whoa... whoa.. wait just a second! This is coming from the same guy who says Mac vs PC is like Lexus vs Chevy... same engine, but people pay more for the Lexus.... it's pretty bad when you can't even get your own analogies straight.


RE: I saw this ad last night three times...
By Pythias on 3/30/2009 1:05:31 PM , Rating: 2
Speaking of OS why is it okay for apple to bundle os and all the extra "icrap", browser, media player etc, but heinous and wrong for MS to do so?


RE: I saw this ad last night three times...
By Pirks on 3/30/2009 5:23:27 PM , Rating: 2
'Cause MS is a monopoly and Apple isn't.


RE: I saw this ad last night three times...
By epyon96 on 3/30/2009 11:11:06 PM , Rating: 2
You should refresh your memory of what constitutes as a Monopoly because Apple almost fits that definition.

It controls the entire supply of OSX and can charge price at which the marginal cost and marginal revenue intersect. Apple vigilently defends its monopoly by sueing any competition that tries to modify its system. I am not judging that it is wrong but it is a simple fact that you cannot legally purchase a hacked MAC in order to recapture the consumer surplus that Apple tries to gauge from consumers.

The only reason why EU chooses not to pursue Apple yet is because its marketshare is nonexistant given their high premium price at the moment. It is simply not worth the legal costs in light of a much easier target like Microsoft.


By Pirks on 3/31/2009 12:38:26 AM , Rating: 2
Okay, so you see this for yourself - Apple market share is so low that it is not a monopoly. Exactly what I said above!

Who cares about the rules Apple sets for its hardware/software ecosystem if their market segment is so small? Great, you got my idea the first time :-)


By TOAOCyrus on 4/1/2009 1:02:29 AM , Rating: 2
Um a monopoly means dominating a market, OSX is a product not a market. Of course Apple controls its supply as its their own product. As you said yourself Apples market share is very small.


Reality TV
By Zingam on 3/27/09, Rating: -1
RE: Reality TV
By merc14 on 3/27/2009 10:41:00 AM , Rating: 5
Ad must have hit you right where it counts, in the wallet. You're right, good one MS.


RE: Reality TV
By JasonMick (blog) on 3/27/09, Rating: -1
RE: Reality TV
By mattclary on 3/27/2009 10:48:26 AM , Rating: 2
HPs are no more offensive than most other laptops. Once you clean the crapware off (just like all the other makes), they are pretty much the same.


RE: Reality TV
By MrBungle123 on 3/27/2009 11:16:31 AM , Rating: 3
Yeah they're not so bad, I bought an HP laptop for college a loooong time ago.('02) The first thing I did was reload the OS to get rid of the crap that was on it out of the box... It's still working.


RE: Reality TV
By murphyslabrat on 3/27/2009 1:34:24 PM , Rating: 2
I bought a Gateway laptop off of eBay, and the seller did the nicest thing I could imagine: he had a fresh install of Vista, waiting at the point of setting up the account.


RE: Reality TV
By FITCamaro on 3/27/2009 11:06:15 AM , Rating: 2
I'm pretty happy with my HP laptop. I spent a few hours cleaning the hard drive off when I first got it and its been flawless since.

$600 for a Turion X2 2GHz, 3GB RAM, 160GB hard drive, 1280x800 screen, and a Blu-ray drive with Vista Home Premium x32. Pretty nice to have a mobile blu-ray player since it has an HDMI out.


RE: Reality TV
By kickwormjoe on 3/27/2009 11:19:16 AM , Rating: 2
I've been dealing with a lot of HP systems lately and have been sort of impressed with how much LESS crapware I've found on them than before.

The ad sort of makes you wonder if HP had their hand in the creation of it, though.


RE: Reality TV
By Murloc on 3/27/2009 11:35:02 AM , Rating: 4
I think they paid some money.


RE: Reality TV
By superflex on 3/27/2009 12:06:08 PM , Rating: 2
As did Best Buy


RE: Reality TV
By Spivonious on 3/27/2009 1:10:22 PM , Rating: 2
They never mention what store she's in though.


RE: Reality TV
By Suomynona on 3/27/2009 1:20:25 PM , Rating: 2
They still require you to download their crapware with printer drivers, though. It's incredibly annoying and retarded.


RE: Reality TV
By Whaaambulance on 3/27/2009 11:32:48 AM , Rating: 2
Admittedly, there was a time when I wouldn't consider an HP laptop. That was years ago. These days they are pretty solid machines. Just make sure you do a clean install with a non-HP version of Windows and you are good to go.

Some of these OEM's have been pretty good about keeping out the clutter of their installs, but there is still alot of bloatware that most people will never use.


RE: Reality TV
By dare2savefreedom on 3/27/2009 11:44:21 AM , Rating: 1
this comment is coming from an hp laptop running ubuntu:

the black and silver hp laptops are not so bad as long as
you understand after a year you will need to under warranty
fedex and swap the mobo.

my friends on his 4th.
i'm on my 2nds on all the hps i have.


RE: Reality TV
By Spivonious on 3/27/2009 1:15:53 PM , Rating: 2
My wife's HP is in its 3rd year with no problems.

I did just get a Compaq in that needed a new system board, but like you said it was under warranty so HP shipped me a box with a return label, I shipped it off, and the repaired laptop was back in 3 days. All shipping was Fedex next-day air.

Maybe they got a bad batch of boards, or have some cooling design problems on their lower end laptops.


RE: Reality TV
By GodisanAtheist on 3/27/2009 3:11:08 PM , Rating: 2
Girlfriend's HP died a horrible death after I can only imagine what managed to pop off the mobo and rattle around inside the 'top.

Always wondered if it was that Nvidia mGPU...


RE: Reality TV
By bighairycamel on 3/27/2009 10:42:08 AM , Rating: 5
At least Microsoft tells the truth in their Apple flame commercials.


RE: Reality TV
By Mitch101 on 3/27/2009 12:48:28 PM , Rating: 5
Did anyone notice even in the MAC commercials the PC guy can afford a suit while the MAC guy looks homeless.


RE: Reality TV
By mattclary on 3/27/2009 10:46:25 AM , Rating: 1
Haven't seen the commercial, but YES!!!! the pic made me think the same thing!


RE: Reality TV
By marvdmartian on 3/27/2009 10:49:04 AM , Rating: 2
So does that mean that PC also offers better cheesy 70's porno music too? Could be a great selling point!


Crispin Porter + Boguksy
By KMac on 3/27/09, Rating: -1
RE: Crispin Porter + Boguksy
By Whaaambulance on 3/27/2009 12:09:33 PM , Rating: 5
I am noting the 'Mac' in your name and disregarding your post.


RE: Crispin Porter + Boguksy
By Pirks on 3/29/09, Rating: -1
RE: Crispin Porter + Boguksy
By Whaaambulance on 3/31/2009 4:03:03 PM , Rating: 1
Hell yeah, they disregard my posts with a 5 rating. I guess regarding your posts means -1.

Damn, I had it all wrong....


RE: Crispin Porter + Boguksy
By Pirks on 3/31/2009 4:42:58 PM , Rating: 2
I meant normal people, not the bunch of Wintards. Of course Wintards will uprate you and downrate me. They don't care if you pay Steve Jobs, what matters is not your money that went straight to Cupertino, only your mindless Apple bashing matters here. Wintards who uprate you can't distinguish between word and deed, their little rat brains are not mature enough for this :)) hehe


RE: Crispin Porter + Boguksy
By Whaaambulance on 3/31/2009 5:11:54 PM , Rating: 2
It has come to my attention that I have been wasting too much time responding to your posts. Initially, I thought I was doing my part for community service by helping the mentally disabled (you). Unfortunately, I am unable to handle such a serious case.

It is here that I must inform you that I will be handing your case over to someone better equipped at helping handicapped persons such as yourself. While I had hoped my educated input might have helped you to better yourself, it appears you are beyond simple comprehension.

I must now hand you over to the following community, which I believe can help you the most.

http://www.mda.org/

Here is wishing you the best.


RE: Crispin Porter + Boguksy
By Pirks on 3/31/2009 6:00:02 PM , Rating: 2
Don't pass them your responsibility to entertain me, Whaaa! I'll miss ya jumps and dances and funny personal performances! Boohooo <8~~~-(((

I'm sure you won't leave me, ya obsessed idiot :)) See ya in the next thread, "community service" clown :)))) hehee


Who cares?
By Belard on 3/27/09, Rating: -1
RE: Who cares?
By Whaaambulance on 3/27/2009 11:47:55 AM , Rating: 5
I can't even think of where to begin on this barely legible, poo-fest of a post.

Competition is good for everyone. Without it, Apple wouldn't exist and you would be paying $5000.00 for a Win95 x386 machine.

Saying "screw MS" makes you sound like an Apple Zealot. People would take you more seriously if you take a less biased approach to your posts.


RE: Who cares?
By walk2k on 3/27/2009 12:27:54 PM , Rating: 1
Actually he's right. Who cares about the whole Mac vs PC argument? What is this, 1986?

As a technical artist I've had the chance to use both mac and pc. Mostly pc these days since they have really caught up in terms of software (photoshop, premiere, etc).

They both have their pros and cons. Bottom line though is you buy which ever you need and ignore all the marketing spin.

People tend to stay with which ever they pick not out of some misplaced sense of brand loyalty but simply because they don't want the hassle of switching, buyin all new s/w, new peripherals, etc etc..

So yes, who cares.


RE: Who cares?
By Belard on 3/27/09, Rating: 0
RE: Who cares?
By Truxy on 3/27/2009 12:36:01 PM , Rating: 4
Who cares? People like me with uninformed friends who will bite at Apple's highly exaggerated (read: often plain incorrect) ads.

My uncle who owns a marketing company always tells me, 'Friends Don't Let Friends Pay Retail'. Well, Apple has positioned itself as the Retail of Retail. People accuse MS of being a greedy monopoly, yet people essentially shell out many times more to Apple for OSX (remember - same hardware, much higher cost). It's like a breeding tank of hypocrites.

I'm not against Apple products. I am against false advertising and taking advantage of foolish customers, it drives technology nowhere.


RE: Who cares?
By Belard on 3/27/2009 10:25:48 PM , Rating: 1
Well, if you're friends are so "uninformed", then its mostly their problem, isn't it? And with most people doing nothing more than web-browsing and email, does it really matter to YOU? I don't own a Mac, I build my own computers... I've built over 600 PCs, even back in the horrible AT/486 days.

Incorrect ADs? Oh yeah, they are a PARODY of Vista/PC. Do PCs get BLUE screens, yes. Is there an MCP (er, I mean UAC) that bugs people all the time? Yes. Were people having problems "upgrading" to Vista, yes. I found the ADS to be FUN... we need to be able to laugh at ourselves.

Some of these people (work for MS) are taking them way to seriously.
quote:
I am against false advertising and taking advantage of foolish customers
Again what exactly is false in the ADs? If Apple made a statement that using Vista causes Herpes - that would be false statements.

But seriously, IF people (and your friends) are believing that a guy in a suit is a "PC computer" and the other guy are REAL computers... then they aren't so bright.

Humans are NOT computers. Most people and I do know how to separate reality from abstractions. Even my 4 year old KNOWS that "I'm a Mac" guy is not a real Mac Computer. (He's playing UT2004 on his own AMD64 WinXP computer)


RE: Who cares?
By Truxy on 3/27/2009 11:37:28 PM , Rating: 3
My biggest gripe is that Apple runs on hype. Myself, I also find the commercials pretty funny, and well done - what's scary is how many people don't. And it's mostly full grown adults. Their stuff used to be unique, many of us grew up using them... now it's an overpriced PC (with the exception of a couple utilities and a few movie/audio apps that are subjectively better on a Apple). Yet their market share is up. Okay, so my friends aren't bright... and that leaves 100% of the people I know with a Mac retards.

People go and buy a Mac without having even having tried OSX because of the commercials. Sheep I tell ya.

quote:
Again what exactly is false in the ADs?

Mac guy to PC guy: 'yeah, and he knows I'm better at life stuff like music, pictures, movies, stuff like that... making websites or picture books is easy for me, for you its not' It's subjective. Whats hard about plugging your camera into Vista, saying yes to opening the picture wizard, and saving or printing them from there?


RE: Who cares?
By Belard on 3/28/2009 3:03:04 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
kay, so my friends aren't bright... and that leaves 100% of the people I know with a Mac retards.


How does that make them a retard? Some people spend $10,000 for a Cellphone, a Nokia (blah)... I think that's a bit retarded over spending $1~2K for a Mac.

quote:
People go and buy a Mac without having even having tried OSX because of the commercials. Sheep I tell ya.


Sheep can be applied to anything. I don't tell people "vista is crap", I say I don't like it - but that they should go to a store or a friend and try it out and make sure they get a computer with at least 3+GB of RAM and a dual core. Luckily - such computers start at $330 nowadays.

If the go to a store and a salesman shows them the GUI and the person like it, fine. Your life isn't altered.

I'm looking forward to Windows7... it support and performance are looking pretty good (with the help of vista).

quote:
making websites or picture books is easy for me, for you its not' It's subjective. Whats hard about plugging your camera into Vista, saying yes to opening the picture wizard, and saving or printing them from there?


That is the best you can come up with? The Photo Gallery program is fairly weak, compared to Picaso (I use ACDSEE and Photoshop) That is as speculative as Ford saying their cars are better than Chevy. For many people, using a Mac is easier. And YES, the typical human retard HAS are hard time dealing with FILE > SAVE issue. Geez, theres PC people out there with 300Mhz Celerons wanting to know how to upgrade to a 2Ghz CPU but not to buy a whole new computer.

Sorry Truxy, as someone who DIDN'T grow up on Windows - the MacOS is a cleaner and simpler design. I'm not willing to pay for it, nor need it and I prefer Windows over Mac. But I don't fool myself into thinking that WindowsXXX/Vista is a "GOD" OS, best thing since sliced bread. I don't love the OS, but it works pretty good (now) with fast hardware and its fine. Opera is a great browser, Office2007 is a new change of making documents - even thou I'm still using Office2000! (I'll buy Office2010/whatever), and Media Player Classic STILL kick's todays "modern" MS-Media player (11?) in the balls in functionality and performance.

For $250~350, I can build a fairly poweful PC... but have to spend $100+ alone for the OS. $600 for a Mac Mini is the cheapest thing out there, then spend $50 for a mouse and keyboard... not impressive when its equal hardware for PC is about $300. And for 2GB and 320GB HD, they charge $200 extra!? Costs for retail parts = $30~40 difference.

$2500 gets you a Mac Tower with a 2.6Ghz quad core CPU, 3GB RAM, 640GB HD and a 9600GT video card (called GT 120 - but its in a white Apple cooler and looks pretty). I'm pretty sure that a typical Core2 Quad 3.0Ghz, 4GB RAM, 1TB HD and 9800GTX can be built for about $700~900. But to be fair, Dell's XPS 630 is $2,679 with those stats... so to some degree, Apple is charging about the same for its high end.


RE: Who cares?
By starryman on 3/30/2009 2:10:34 AM , Rating: 3
There's been comparison about computers and luxury cars. I don't see the connection. Especially when luxury cars are status symbols and computers aren't. Please no debates - if luxury cars weren't status symbols there wouldn't be any cars over $35K.

Regardless of the specifications or what's under the hood of a PC or a Mac and the the fact they are quite similar in user-experience (mouse, click, drop-down menus). Computers aren't considered "status" symbols. Girls and women don't sit around and say "ooooh Steve just got a Mac!" Then they all swoon helplessly. Nope.

Luxury things... are about percieved status. The person driving in that Lexus is somebody. Is it stupid to think so? Sure because we are human and stupidity is part of our OS version 1. So while people will spend more for a Lexus than a Chevy... people will be impressed with the person behind the Lexus(of course the smart ass ones aren't impressed).

Now for people who buy Macs and spend extra $$$... are they buying it because it's some kind of status? I hope not but the extra price they pay it seems like are. Macs are priced as if they are a Lexus or Mercedes. But in fact not.

Lexus or Mercedes are not only status symbols... they are Rolling Status symbols. Where ever they drive people take notice. And yes girls and women do take notice of a Lexus or Mercedes and some are even swooned. Hence you pay for extra for driving the Lexus or Mercedes or BMW. Your choice of premium car is yours to choose. Luxury cars can even make you the "man's man" in many cases but never with a Mac.

So... while pissing money away on a luxury car is irrational and quite stupid there is satsifaction of having status (success is the best revenge) and impress some scantilly clad babes. But pissing money away on a Mac is simply that. You don't get the status symbol and the only person you impress is the hippie dude or chick at the Apple store.

While I own a Mercedes and Porsche, I also have a Honda Accord. It's laughable but unless you own a luxury car, you know the X-factor you get when pulling up in a Mercedes or Porsche. Never in the Honda. And with the rolling status comes perks and opportunities (I won't go into details but if I drove clients or met up with clients in the wife's Accord, I wouldn't be closing as many business deals). While I can splurge for a Mac, which I wouldn't, I find it more of an irrational buy than a Mercedes or Lexus or Porsche.


RE: Who cares?
By Belard on 3/31/2009 11:51:56 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
here's been comparison about computers and luxury cars. I don't see the connection.


Oh, I agree with you 100%.

Unlike such cars... a $5000 MAC or PC (DELL XPS) for that matter will not get you laid on or inside the computer, unlike the Hummer H2 or true luxury cars. Some PCs maybe able to handle the weight (The old Antecs), but without the leather interior, it just doesn't work.

But there is that .05% of the girls out there THAT'll get turned on by the kind of computer a guy has and know what the parts do, etc.

quote:
And yes girls and women do take notice of a Lexus or Mercedes and some are even swooned. Hence you pay for extra for driving the Lexus or Mercedes or BMW.


I had recommened a friend to get a used BMW, he actually got a date (and then some) the first few hours he had it. His previous car was uh... a good car. but ugh.. yuk, I drove it once and it sucked... very uncool generic GM.

Point: $5000 PC = no girl friend
$50,000 Car = easy GF... for a night or two at least.

:)

Reverse that. Guys... we don't care about her computer or her car.


RE: Who cares?
By chick0n on 3/27/2009 12:39:46 PM , Rating: 2
People hate Vista because they hate changes.

Just like the days of Win98 vs XP. People said 98 is better than XP. thats a pure WTFDYS(What the fuxk did you say?) right there.

Everything in Vista beats XP. I've been a Beta user and been using it since RTM never had a problem. With SP2 coming soon its just getting better and better.

Dont whine because you have piece of shitz hardware or you're just too jealous cuz u got ripped by that Rotten Apple.


RE: Who cares?
By Belard on 3/28/09, Rating: 0
RE: Who cares?
By Targon on 4/2/2009 9:39:04 AM , Rating: 2
People have been conditioned to dislike Vista by bad press, and initial problems caused by bad drivers for the first six months after Vista was released to the public.

In January of 2007, Vista was released to the general public(corporations COULD get it a few months earlier). At that time, driver support was PATHETIC.

You would have some basic print drivers, but overall, the software packages for printers would not work under Vista, and with no Vista-native versions available, it bothered a number of people.

Vista also has Superfetch, a service designed to improve overall system performance over time by pre-loading a good chunk of your most commonly used programs ahead of time. This makes Vista more responsive after a few days of use because it knows what programs you tend to use the most. The down side of this is you need additional system memory to handle this. So, if you have only one gigabyte of system memory, Vista will seem sluggish because with Superfetch, you are starving the system of memory(as if you have only 384 megs under Windows XP). With 2GB of RAM, Vista will run a bit better.

Vista also uses some 3D features on the desktop, so with a low-end integrated graphics chip(Intel Integrated garbage) in many computers, the desktop itself might make things feel a bit slower. Even a NVIDIA 6150LE was acceptable though.

Now, with these things in mind, look at the January-June period of 2007. Many computers were being sold with only 1GB of memory and Intel graphics. People would be suffering from bad drivers, bad graphics(so even the desktop felt sluggish), and bad initial press in the newspapers and online.

By November of 2007, the driver issues had been fixed for the most part, but people were still hearing from people who read in the paper in February 2007 that Vista had problems. Lingering sales of sub-standard computers also delayed the discovery by people that Vista really wasn't that bad, once you had the latest drivers. After 11 months of negative press though, nothing could alter the perception that many people had that Vista was to be avoided. Even today, many people do not know about the sources of the Vista problems, and even people who SHOULD know better bash Vista for problems that have long since been fixed.

There are still some issues that people will have, and I am sure that there will be people who will point out these issues. I do not claim that Vista is the perfect OS or anything like that as well. I do say that most of the negative feelings that people have are due to the initial problems, and then people just feeding that negative impression due to their experiences in the past.

The changes...Programs and Features replaces Add/Remove Programs. A few other minor changes to the UI that some people do not care for. Needing more resources(addressed above) is something to be expected in ANY new OS. Driver issues(XP may not have had as many driver problems, but anyone who had a Sound Blaster Live card when XP was new may remember how bad some could be).

Vista DOES add some features that will draw more CPU and GPU power than XP, it is to be expected. It still runs acceptably with a dual-core processor and 2GB of system memory though. It all comes down to not having a low-end computer that can't handle the demands placed on it.


RE: Who cares?
By DFranch on 3/27/2009 12:48:16 PM , Rating: 2
Most people who know computers know that the Apple vs. Windows ad's are comical. but there are enough people who don't know very much about computers who take the crap in the Apple ad's seriously. I have had at least a dozen people comment to me that windows sucks but when you ask them why they don't know. It's cause they heard it in the Apple ad and didn't know any better. It is just like the crap about Mac's not needing anti-virus, but PC's do. It has nothing to do with OS X being better than Windows. Nobody bothers writing viruses for OS X because it would only affect like 5% of the computers in the world. 95% of the viruses are written for windows. By the way their are free anti-vurus apps which I've been using for years. Most large ISP's supply anti-virus apps free, so the myth that it is expensive and time consuming to maintain a windows machine is garbage.


RE: Who cares?
By Belard on 3/28/2009 2:19:37 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
but there are enough people who don't know very much about computers who take the crap in the Apple ad's seriously.


And how is THAT your problem? If they are that stupid to not know that the actors are human and not actual computer, then there isn't much you can do about it.

quote:
have had at least a dozen people comment to me that windows sucks but when you ask them why they don't know.


Yeah, that's at least a dozen stupid people then, so let them spend their money. Using a Mac is easier anyways (it really is) and would be a better fit. Look at it that way.

quote:
Most large ISP's supply anti-virus apps free, so the myth that it is expensive and time consuming to maintain a windows machine is garbage.


Those studies are refering to other aspects for TCOs, not just AV software. BTW, how does "5% of the (Mac) computers in world" translate into "95% of viruses being written for Windows?" ?? You're pulling numbers out of the air.

First, Linux and all its flavors have a market share.
Second, Apple's market share in the USA is about 8%, but world-wide its about 3.5%... hmmm, what ARE you afraid of? I am guessing that less than 0.5% of the viruses out there are for MacOS. I've spent as much time as I'm willing to spend on it - but the most I see on Mac sites about AV software is that the AV software is more trouble than its worth. So if its that important to you, research some real numbers of how many active viruses are out there for OS X.

PS: AVG is an excellent free AV program, I'd recommended it over Mcaffe (useless) and Norton.


there is a fish smell
By dare2savefreedom on 3/27/09, Rating: -1
If MS is going for sleazy
By Barfo on 3/27/09, Rating: -1
RE: If MS is going for sleazy
By VooDooAddict on 3/27/09, Rating: -1
"The whole principle [of censorship] is wrong. It's like demanding that grown men live on skim milk because the baby can't have steak." -- Robert Heinlein




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