backtop


Print E-mail del.icio.us 55 comment(s) - last by bplewis24.. on Aug 2 at 4:16 PM

Attempt to infringe carry same penalties as successful infringement

H.R. 3155, also known as the “Intellectual Property Enhanced Criminal Enforcement Act of 2007” was introduced on July 24 by Representative Steven Chabot (R-Ohio). The bill aims to expand the penalties and scope of copyright infringement, and “strengthen the protection of intellectual property.”

In an objection posted to the Electronic Frontier Foundation’s Deep Links, the EFF finds that if this new bill becomes law, copyright holders can set statutory damages anywhere from $750 to $30,000 per work infringed -- and the copyright holder doesn’t even have to prove the infringement. “Such disproportionate penalties can be especially dangerous when it comes to lawsuits against mass-market products like the iPod or TiVo that enable the making of thousands of copies,” it says. Further, damages can be handed out for each track of a CD where, under normal circumstances, the CD counts as one work: “This is particularly unfair because record labels register entire albums as single works principally to strip their artists of reversion rights they would otherwise enjoy if the songs were registered individually.”

Expansive in its scope, H.R. 3155 covers a wide range of topics. Section 12 takes the penalties for criminal copyright infringement and doubles them, turning 5-year prison terms into 10, and 10-year prison terms into 20 years. In an Orwellian twist, another clause in section 5 attempts to criminalize the attempted commission of criminal IP infringement, prescribing the same penalties for attempts as the those for successful completion.

The idea of “attempted” IP infringement is a recurring theme that has shown up in several bills in the past few years, none of which have become law. In May, Attorney General Alberto Gonzalez and the Department of Justice proposed the Intellectual Property Protection Act of 2007, and according to the EFF, proposals as far back as 2005 have included provisions for “attempted” IP infringement. None of these proposals have become law.

Regular file-sharing activity is exempt from criminal infringement, and the bill seems aimed more at people who profit from piracy. However, critics worry that worry that if the courts take an expansive view to “purposes of commercial advantage or private financial gain,” then P2P users could find themselves behind bars in addition to the current pattern of civil settlements.

H.R. 3155 has not yet been scheduled for debate.



Comments     Threshold


This article is over a month old, voting and posting comments is disabled

Wow
By Vokus on 8/1/2007 6:53:07 AM , Rating: 4
We live in a scary time, corporations are taking over the legal system and making their own laws... At the rate we are giving up our rights today is amazing. We will all be criminals and slaves in no time, and their will always be an endless supply of stupid people that will be willing to give up their rights and freedoms... I would really like to see how much of money the artist make for signing with these companies in the first place, and how much money they make from pirates that have been cough and convicted...




RE: Wow
By FITCamaro on 8/1/07, Rating: -1
RE: Wow
By BladeVenom on 8/1/2007 8:32:27 AM , Rating: 5
It's not stealing; it's infringement. Now its going to be attempted infringement.

We are slowly losing rights. We've been losing fair use, public domain, and the right against cruel and unusual punishment. It's certainly cruel and unusual that the punishments for infringement are so far out of proportion to the crime. Killers get less time now than they want to give copyright infringers.


RE: Wow
By Regs on 8/1/2007 8:52:52 AM , Rating: 1
I think your view is skewed. America always had strict laws protecting peoples property. It's the free market and it's the government's job to protect the free market. Laws like these are always getting passed, though sometimes not directed to the consumer but a business vs.. business basis. Without protection from the government or laws such as these, we're creating an environment that does not provide or nourish a healthy economy.

The truth is our country is turning to the high-tech industry to support the economy. It has been so for many years. Without these laws, businesses will choose other countries or locations that will be more lucrative for them. Which implies...lesser higher paying jobs.

So I wouldn't be surprised to see a whole lot more laws being passed in the next decade to protect these businesses.

And we never had the freedom to steal from anyone. Though it was never properly enforced.


RE: Wow
By FITCamaro on 8/1/2007 9:16:08 AM , Rating: 2
Exactly. Thats one of the main reasons corporations do business in America. We work harder to protect the IP of a corporation more than any other country.


RE: Wow
By FITCamaro on 8/1/2007 9:08:29 AM , Rating: 3
I'll agree with you that the punishments this bill calls for are too harsh compared to other crimes.


RE: Wow
By FITCamaro on 8/1/07, Rating: -1
RE: Wow
By wordsworm on 8/1/2007 10:33:20 AM , Rating: 3
It's not at all the same. It would be closer to having your car copied by someone. Not paying for something isn't quite the same as taking something that belongs to someone else. Does anyone remember the replicators from Star Trek TNG? Can you imagine if we lived in a world where a car, or even something as simple as a cup, could be copied and duplicated at will. The pizza that you love from Pizza Hut could be copied and replicated whenever you had the urge. You like that Ferrari? Well... just get the supersized replicator version of it. If I walked by, say, Magnum PI's car and duplicated it, would he no longer have that car? Yes, of course he'd still have it. He probably wouldn't even notice it was gone, let alone copied. And the infringer would now have a Ferrari too.

Well, that would be just great. But where would we be morally and legally? The people who designed that Ferrari would get nothing for their creative efforts, based on the reactions of most (it roughly being that making copies should be legal). However, I have mixed feelings about it. On the one hand, people put a lot of effort into the machine (I'm still talking Ferrari). If we could copy that machine, most of the streets would be covered in Ferrari red rather than Toyotas, Fords, and Chryslers in drab. On the other hand, I've spent a lot of money on music over the years. First the 8 track, then the record, next the tape, then the CD, and now the MP3? I figure if I bought the record, then I've got a right to make a copy of it, or if the record's got a scratch, I figure I should have the right to a new MP3 without charge. Most of the music I listen to I've paid for 1-2 times already. Having to pay for it a 3rd, and possibly 4th time for the same music gets my goat more than anything.

I wonder this though: how much are all the lawyers making on this battle?


RE: Wow
By Oregonian2 on 8/1/2007 2:43:31 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Well, that would be just great. But where would we be morally and legally? The people who designed that Ferrari would get nothing for their creative efforts, based on the reactions of most (it roughly being that making copies should be legal).


You kind of miss the point of the STTNG environment. The designers of that Ferrari would have done it for the fun of it, because they thought it was a cool thing to do. Not for money because there really isn't "money" in that environment. When one can have ANYTHING instantly through a replicator (presumably including the making of replicators) what is the point of money? You can have whatever you want whenever you want it. And however much you want (why I'm surprised more on the crew weren't overweight).


RE: Wow
By lumbergeek on 8/1/2007 3:52:03 PM , Rating: 2
Quite right. That's why the Ferengi never understood Starfleet. Money is irrelevant in the society that Gene envisioned.


RE: Wow
By smitty3268 on 8/1/2007 10:38:03 AM , Rating: 3
There is a difference between stealing and infringement, although the lines are sometimes blurry. I also think the punishments involved here are a little extreme if they're given to the average consumer, but if they only go after the major pirate distributors online then maybe they'd be all right. Wouldn't count on that sticking, though.

This attempted infringement clause reminds me of conspiracy charges, which were created to get criminals we couldn't otherwise prove had done anything wrong.


RE: Wow
By euclidean on 8/1/2007 12:38:33 PM , Rating: 3
Ya....the days that our rapists and sexual devients can get less jail time than the common college student downloading music from home are going to be sweet :D :\...

Seriously though, is this going to effect anyone who isn't redistributing it for a profit? (ie selling movies on the corner, etc) But then at the same time, what are they calling profit? You not spending money on a movie or cd because you downloaded it could be looked at as making a profit....so is this really going to only effect the businesses and mass distributers? I don't know and i'm kinda scarred to find out. I have thousands of downloaded songs and movies...I didn't pay for them, but I tell you what, the movies that I liked, I bought, if I didn't like it, I filed it away into a binder that I haven't touched in forever. And music, I have so many CDs that the only reason i downloaded it was for 1 song....because I didn't care for any of the other ones.

Everything else in this world has a return policy, if you didn't like it, or it didn't work for you, then you return it....I don't see any retailers letting me do that with movies or cd's....so of course i'm going to download them first.


RE: Wow
By Shadowmaster625 on 8/1/2007 3:52:51 PM , Rating: 2
It's more like taking a picture of your car.


RE: Wow
By redbone75 on 8/1/2007 1:22:31 PM , Rating: 4
quote:
Last I checked the constitution in no way gives you the right to steal something that someone else made and make a profit off it.

Isn't that what the record labels are doing to their own artists? Anyway, I think it's total BS that record labels register whole albums as single works but online music stores don't have the rights to the entire album, only those songs that the publisher gives them rights to. The very concept smacks of illegality. Oh, yeah, that's right. I tend to forget that our paid-for and bought politicians have money blinders on.


RE: Wow
By Regs on 8/1/2007 3:51:40 PM , Rating: 2
They own it.
They own it.
They own it.

What's so hard to understand here? You'd be raising hell if some 10 billion dollar a-year corporation decided to buy out your land from underneith you and decide to use it as a parking lot.


RE: Wow
By Shadowmaster625 on 8/1/2007 3:54:35 PM , Rating: 2
erm they do that all the time... through the government and environmental front groups.


RE: Wow
By Polynikes on 8/1/2007 12:44:48 PM , Rating: 2
Don't worry, we can always fight back if things get too ugly, just like we did the first time against England.


RE: Wow
By Seymourbbuts on 8/1/2007 1:44:04 PM , Rating: 2
And who is going to fight this battle, the average American is either too stupid or too lazy to care. As long as they get what they want there is no problem for them. Besides, even if an average American does give money in exchange for the product or service, they aren't the one who's paying for it; it's either the bank that they're getting loans from, or the credit cards that they have no means or intentions to pay for, because everyone in America deserves whatever they're buying with someone else's money, regardless of if they have made the effort to earn it.

I'm an American so don't think this is foreign hatred.


RE: Wow
By CascadingDarkness on 8/1/2007 3:00:10 PM , Rating: 2
I second idiots with credit cards.

No matter what Sparks tells you. It is not a magic goodies creator.


RE: Wow
By RW on 8/1/2007 8:09:29 PM , Rating: 2
Someone is missing the point here.
If there would be less content to download from internet there would be less demand for high speed internet connections, less demand for big hard drives, less demand for DVD, Blue Ray recorders, less demand for DVD-R media, less demand for internet, less demand for audio-video content.
Since there would be less demand there would be less sales so the whole economy will go down and state will lose more money.

But it's fun to see how the whole ecosystem is destroying itself.


No Proof?
By mdogs444 on 8/1/2007 9:08:19 AM , Rating: 3
quote:
copyright holders can set statutory damages anywhere from $750 to $30,000 per work infringed -- and the copyright holder doesn’t even have to prove the infringement.


This is the part that scares me. I agree that infringement should be illegal, and that attempted infringement should be illegal as well. For example, if you rob someones apartment, you should be punished. If you attempt to break in and rob someones apartment, you should also be punished. However, they are two different punishments - in one case there is breaking & entering as well as theft, in the other case there is only attempted break in. Therefore, the penalties should not be the same.

What really scares me though is the fact that they can seek damages without proof. How the hell is that legal? Whatever happened to "Innocent until PROVEN guilty?"




RE: No Proof?
By Misty Dingos on 8/1/2007 9:28:21 AM , Rating: 2
If you attempt to break into a house, under most states laws, you can be shot dead by the occupant of the house. You don't have to enter the house all you have to do is try. Some states look like you are trying. Your analogy is flawed downloading music is not going to get you killed nor can it get you killed. Only in the most extreme case are you even going to go to jail.

The copyright holder will have to convince a jury that you need to be punished to the tune of $30K an infringment. That would take some really good Boston Legal daring do.


RE: No Proof?
By mdogs444 on 8/1/2007 10:04:55 AM , Rating: 2
I am talking about punishment by the judicial system, but you do make a point about the owner of the property being able to take actions into his own hands.

I just dont see how they can convince a jury, or judge, that you should pay up to 30k for an infrigement if they dont even need to provide evidence.


RE: No Proof?
By FITCamaro on 8/1/2007 10:23:05 AM , Rating: 2
In Texas after dark I can shoot you for just being on my property if I feel threatened.

But yes for the most part you're right. Any state that doesn't let you protect your home from someone trying to break in needs to have its laws changed. You should be allowed to assume that if someone is even attempting to break into your home, that their intentions are hostile and take appropriate action to defend yourself. That means I'll tell you I'm about to shoot you. If you still continue to try to break into my house, I will shoot you. If you're already in my house, you don't get the warning.

I love Boston Legal because its funny as hell. But sometimes the show upsets me because sometimes it shows everything that is wrong with our judicial system. That a high priced attorney can get someone out of anything. Look at Nicole Richie. 4 days of jail time for driving while under the influence of drugs. Me or you would be in jail for a few years and never be able to drive again.


RE: No Proof?
By bplewis24 on 8/1/2007 12:26:42 PM , Rating: 6
quote:
In Texas after dark I can shoot you for just being on my property if I feel threatened


I just wanted to make a couple of points, and keep in mind I don't know the laws of Texas:

1) You CAN do anything you want to somebody on your property.

2) You will still have to PROVE that is was "reasonable" and necessary in a court of law.

To give more insight on to what is considered "reasonable", here are some of my notes from cases I read in Law School:

Brown v Martinez (NM, 1961):
“the reasonableness of the force used is usually a question of fact for the jury. But as in the case of self-defense, the law has marked out certain limitations.”
-“the law has always placed a higher value upon human safety than upon mere rights property.” (very important social policy here)
-“there is no privilege to use any force calculated to cause death or serious bodily injury where only the property is threatened.” (critical standard set)
-there is no suggestion that the appellee thought his own life was threatened, therefore this was an improper act. (important precedent)

Katko v Briney (Iowa, 1971):
“The value of human life and limb, not only to the individual concerned but also to society, so outweighs the interest of a possessor of land in excluding from it those whom he is not willing to admit thereto that a possessor of land has…no privilege to use force intended or likely to cause death or serious harm against another whom the possessor sees about to enter his premises or meddle with his chattel, unless the intrusion threatens death or serious bodily harm.” (restatement of Torts)

What is the point I'm making in all of this? Don't put 30 rounds into somebody mettling outside of your window and then shoot at all of his mates running away, assuming that a court of law will sympathize with your position unconditionally.

Brandon


RE: No Proof?
By Misty Dingos on 8/1/2007 1:12:10 PM , Rating: 6
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_Doctrine

Please read about the Castle Doctrine. The level of proof required to defend yourself in court for your actions in defending yourself are much less than it seems you were taught in law school. (very important social policy here)

What is required if you end up in court for defense of your life or property is a good lawyer that understands how to defend you.

Only one other comment. It is much easier to convince a jury that your actions were justified if they can only hear your side of the story.


RE: No Proof?
By KristopherKubicki (blog) on 8/2/2007 3:03:41 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
It is much easier to convince a jury that your actions were justified if they can only hear your side of the story.


As Orwell once wrote, "History is is written by the winners."

Gold star for you today :)


RE: No Proof?
By bplewis24 on 8/2/2007 4:16:04 PM , Rating: 2
I'm confused as to where you see in my post that I speak towards level of proof necessary. I simply stated cases of precedent and social policy. If you check those notes you'll see that the defendant in one of the cases lost, so obviously he didn't meet the level of proof standard you speak of, no matter how lax you make it appear to be. However, If you care to elaborate on where I made the "level of proof" out to be abnormally high I'm prepared to listen.

And if you look right there in your link, you will see that the two concepts are not irreconcilable. For example about midway down in the link you will see this:

"However, all laws pertaining to the use of deadly force still apply. The law still requires citizens to articulate the ability, opportunity and intent of an attacker to do grave bodily harm to a person exercising his or her right to self-defense"

In other words, this is in no way conflicting to my original post. Also, keep in mind that the Castle Doctrine applies to places outside of personal property, and is not enacted in every state. The Castle Doctrine is more about using deadly force vs duty to retreat than it is about protecting personal property, which is the context of the original discussion.

Lastly, I'm not quite sure if you got the point of my original post. For example you say:

quote:
What is required if you end up in court for defense of your life or property is a good lawyer that understands how to defend you.


And that is, in essence, the entire point. You will STILL have to prove that you did the right thing in defending yourself with deadly force. I was responding to the suggestions from earlier posters saying they can basically shoot to kill folks lurking around their property. It is nowhere near that simple. Even if it is qualified to state "if [he] feels threatened," it has to be proven that his feelings were reasonable, and that happens in court just as you concede in the above sentence.

The level of proof and burden of proof required is a completely new discussion (also consider that the cases I quoted were tort claims), and one that I never alluded to in my original post, so it's unclear to me why you say it is "much less than it seems [I] was taught."

Brandon


RE: No Proof?
By rcc on 8/1/2007 6:19:54 PM , Rating: 2
He did state "if I feel threatened".


Contact info for Congressmen:
By sintaxera on 8/1/2007 5:29:59 AM , Rating: 5
Cincinnati Office

3003 Carew Tower
441 Vine Street
Cincinnati, OH 45202

(513) 684-2723
(513) 421-8722 (fax)
------------------------------------------------- ---------
Washington Office

129 Cannon House Office Building
Washington, D.C. 20515

(202) 225-2216
(202) 225-3012 (fax)

------------------------------------------------- ----------

I copied this directly from his website. Does that make me a criminal?




RE: Contact info for Congressmen:
By BladeVenom on 8/1/2007 8:37:36 AM , Rating: 5
Does the RIAA send the money to his office, or do they do direct deposit?


By TomCorelis (blog) on 8/1/2007 12:29:12 PM , Rating: 2
Carrier pigeon.


thought police
By Gul Westfale on 8/1/2007 9:15:32 AM , Rating: 2
what if i were to find myself thinking about downloading a song? would i be sent to guantanamo?




RE: thought police
By Misty Dingos on 8/1/2007 9:18:26 AM , Rating: 2
Uh no. But do wear a tin foil hat.


RE: thought police
By Gul Westfale on 8/1/2007 9:28:41 AM , Rating: 1
when you get the chance, please ask your parents to take a minute and explain sarcasm to you, george.


RE: thought police
By Misty Dingos on 8/1/2007 9:33:40 AM , Rating: 3
I love sarcasm. It is most fun. I love irony and parody too! But if you are stung by my post perhaps your sense of humor requires adjustment?


RE: thought police
By Gul Westfale on 8/1/2007 8:01:24 PM , Rating: 2
but you were making fun of my tinfoil hat... :)


well, there is a left conspiracy
By rika13 on 8/1/2007 10:18:48 AM , Rating: 1
the left is trying to make people poor because poor people vote for the left and if they weren't poor they wouldn't vote left because the left is "good for the poor" and makes the rich "pay their fair share"

thing is this probably will pass, democrats are in bed with the media cartels and the republicans value business, being its not iraq, gay marriage, or abortion, mainstream media wont pick it up; hell, they barely picked up internet radio getting it's 14th amendment rights violated wholesale by a NONELECTED copyright royalty board (dmca, blame bill, probably got a box of cigars from the riaa for this one)




RE: well, there is a left conspiracy
By smitty3268 on 8/1/2007 10:43:37 AM , Rating: 2
While I won't disagree that the left is in the pockets of Hollywood, this bill was actually sponsored by a Republican from Ohio - not exactly a liberal.


RE: well, there is a left conspiracy
By drebo on 8/1/2007 10:58:55 AM , Rating: 2
Republican and Liberal are not mutually exclusive.


By Misty Dingos on 8/1/2007 11:07:56 AM , Rating: 2
True but most of them are ensconced in mental hospitals. Schizophrenia is a terrible disease. And the arguments that liberal republicans have with themselves are most amusing. "More money for the poor! Lower taxes! Smaller government! Universal Health Care for all! Tax the rich! Stick it to the man! Hey I am the man? Stick it to me!"


By Misty Dingos on 8/1/2007 10:52:01 AM , Rating: 2
I congratulate you! You are our winner of the Right Wing Nut Case Award! Your efforts here have put you in the running for the coveted RIGHT WING LOONEY Award. You get a year of Rush Limbaugh's pain reliever and a custom tin foil hat!


Gorila bill, sickens me...
By savageseb on 8/1/2007 6:51:47 AM , Rating: 3
I cant believe this shi*, information is free under the protection of basic constitutional rights, such as freedom of expression! this bogus bill will end the internet for sure...




RE: Gorila bill, sickens me...
By FITCamaro on 8/1/2007 7:08:56 AM , Rating: 2
Uh...information is free. Copying someone else's work and making a profit off it is not. Thats what this bill mainly goes after.

That said I'm not for this because yes, it will be abused. You can be damn sure the RIAA and the MPAA are behind this one.

But it won't be the end of the internet by a long shot.


RE: Gorila bill, sickens me...
By rtrski on 8/1/2007 9:20:33 AM , Rating: 2
On a totally different front than the inevitable RIAA/MPAA bashing (which I'd join in on, in spirit, if I weren't so weary of it all):

I wonder how much of this is intended for more than just "entertainment" IP, but also to increase penalties for industrial espionage. I could see slapping a corporation with the same penalty for attempting to steal another's design as for succeeding - the potential $$ 'damages' there are huge.

The problems being our screwed up patent system that allows ridiculous things to be patented and become 'IP', not to mention the overseas origination of much corporate espionage...its kind of hard to prosecute unless you catch the bad actors in the U.S., and then you're just getting the little fish / fall guy.

The lobby that should be paying for this bill is the legal lobby. All this does in ensure that lawyers will make more money persecuting (<-intentional misuse) more IP cases. ;)


typical bribed congressman
By rika13 on 8/1/2007 9:52:56 AM , Rating: 2
for those who don't know, the RIAA has contributed to the campaigns of many congressmen; senator obama from my state too $2000 from the cartel for his senate bid

a quick trip to opensecrets.org reveals this sorry man took $4k for ASCAP (a record company), $500 from the national music publisher association, $2k from time warner, and $1k from universal music group

definately on RIAA's x-mas mailing list




RE: typical bribed congressman
By Melric on 8/1/2007 2:01:00 PM , Rating: 2
With that much in contributions he can probably buy a campaign ad that runs once at 3:30am during an infomercial. He must be in bed with the RIAA!


Don't copy that floppy!
By oTAL (blog) on 8/1/2007 5:52:22 AM , Rating: 2
As always, your pics are awesome! Great one!
If any of you guys never saw that ad, definetly check out YouTube. Almost as good as the He-Man sexual abusers warning...
*lol*




Hollywood is passing out CASH?
By ToeCutter on 8/1/2007 7:51:42 AM , Rating: 2
WHY is a Representative from Ohio, a state suffering the its highest unemployment rate in two years, sponsoring a bill for Hollywood?

Rep Chabot?

You sir, are a LOSER.




Don't copy that floppy!
By masteer381 on 8/1/2007 10:39:04 AM , Rating: 2
Now, don't even think about copying that floppy!




The paranoid left and right!
By Misty Dingos on 8/1/07, Rating: 0
Gonzalez is a criminal
By Enigma777 on 8/1/07, Rating: -1
RE: Gonzalez is a criminal
By Misty Dingos on 8/1/07, Rating: 0
RE: Gonzalez is a criminal
By mdogs444 on 8/1/2007 9:23:35 AM , Rating: 2
Exactly. Speaky of Looney, I wouldn't vote for him if he was running for mayor of Toon Town.


RE: Gonzalez is a criminal
By AntiV6 on 8/1/2007 7:40:27 PM , Rating: 1
Well, I guess being logical and smart are two totally different things...

Anyways, if I get caught, I am going away for a long time.


"Well, we didn't have anyone in line that got shot waiting for our system." -- Nintendo of America Vice President Perrin Kaplan











botimage
Copyright 2009 DailyTech LLC. - RSS Feed | Advertise | About Us | Ethics | FAQ | Terms, Conditions & Privacy Information | Kristopher Kubicki