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  (Source: NYPD)
NYPD adds to its hybrid fleet with American-built Nissan Altima Hybrids

It's no secret that gasoline-electric hybrids tend to perform very well when it comes to fuel economy. Ford's midsize Fusion Hybrid is rated at 41 mpg in the city and 36 mpg on the highway while Toyota's third-generation Prius is rated at a combined 50 mpg.

While American consumers have been snapping up hybrids for years now, the vehicles are also seeing heavy duty use as taxis across the United States and Canada. In fact, New York City mayor Michael Bloomberg has already stated that all yellow cabs will be hybrids by the year 2012.

Now it appears that the NYPD wants a larger piece of the hybrid pie with a new fleet of hybrid police cars. While many may have considered the Fusion Hybrid the perfect candidate for such an operation, the NYPD instead went with the Smyrna, Tennessee-built Nissan Altima Hybrid.

The NYPD will add a total of 40 Altima hybrids composed of 18 marked and 22 unmarked units. The Altima Hybrids will join the department's 10 GMC Yukon Hybrids.

"Through savings in fuel, these Altimas can quickly cover their additional cost, from then they will save taxpayers money -- another example of how going green is good for our environment and our pocketbooks," said Mayor Michael Bloomberg.

"We want to get the most mileage out of technology where it makes sense -- with the addition of these hybrids, we’re doing that literally," added Police Commissioner Raymond W. Kelly.

The NYPD expects to quickly recoup the added $1,500 expense of the Altima Hybrid over the standard Chevrolet Impalas that the department usually purchases -- the Altima Hybrid manages to achieve an impressive 34 mpg in the city while the Impalas can only manage 16 mpg.

Nissan licensed Toyota's hybrid technology to use in the Altima Hybrid.

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Shoulda used the Fusion
By Nik00117 on 5/4/2009 8:36:06 AM , Rating: 3
Only thing they should of used is the Ford Fusion, however let's remind everyone on some facts.

Those are cars are going be getting used in NYC, from what I understand there isn't much room to go very fast

Secondly because those cars are being used in NYC the Hybrid system will work at it's peak saving the most $$$.

Thirldly why didn't they use the Ford Fusion? It's just as good as the Nissan, however it's American which looks better IMHO.

RE: Shoulda used the Fusion
By monomer on 5/4/2009 11:46:08 AM , Rating: 2
I agree that in terms of public perception, the Ford Fusion Hybrid would have been better, but I would bet the decision was probably swayed by cost.

The Altima Hybrid starts at $26,650, while the Fusion Hybrid starts at $27,270.

RE: Shoulda used the Fusion
By SerafinaEva on 5/4/09, Rating: -1
RE: Shoulda used the Fusion
By quiksilvr on 5/4/09, Rating: -1
RE: Shoulda used the Fusion
By teldar on 5/4/2009 4:36:54 PM , Rating: 3

Ford's tied with Honda above Toyota for overall quality now.

And there are quite a few police departments which still use the ford crown vic as a cop car because it's still rear wheel drive.

RE: Shoulda used the Fusion
By Samus on 5/5/2009 1:51:58 AM , Rating: 1
Saying an Altima rides better than the Fusion truely demonstrates how clueless you are. The CD338 is an advanced, european-bred, autobahn quality platform, used all the way through the Ford family up to the luxury Lincoln MKZ. The Altima is a economy car, a step up from a Versa. And I wouldn't trust any Nissan electrical systems as complicated as those in a Hybrid. They couldn't even get fuel injection right in the 80's when they took over Datsun and had numerous electronic-related recalls through all of the 90's.

Furthermore, the Fusion Hybrid will indefinately get better milage, and since its a larger car, will likely require less maintenance from New York City's sometimes-harsh road conditions (pot-hole city.) The Fusion Hybrid achieved 45MPG combined from Road and Track while the Nissan achieved 39MPG, and to make it even more embarassing, the Fusion achieved 85MPG using hypermiling techniques.

RE: Shoulda used the Fusion
By ipay on 5/7/2009 4:20:30 AM , Rating: 2
You must probably work for Detroit!! Maybe they went with nissans for the same million reasons the rest of us are staying away from american cars, they don't feel like having them in shops every other day to get fixed. I can say first hand their "quality". let's not forget some of the acronyms that ford accumulated over the years, F ound- O n-The- R oad- D ead, F ixed- O r- R epaired- D aily, and so on..

RE: Shoulda used the Fusion
By teldar on 5/4/2009 4:37:52 PM , Rating: 2
Quite well done english grammer. Do you have anything to back that up?
Or just your personal bias?

RE: Shoulda used the Fusion
By Spuke on 5/4/2009 5:31:17 PM , Rating: 2
More than likely it was due to availability. There's a testing period required and the new Fusion Hybrid more than likely would have not been available for testing.

22 unmarked units eh?
By jiteo on 5/3/2009 11:39:28 PM , Rating: 2
You see an Altima that makes no sound drive up, you'll know :)

RE: 22 unmarked units eh?
By Jedi2155 on 5/4/09, Rating: 0
RE: 22 unmarked units eh?
By UNHchabo on 5/4/2009 3:30:05 PM , Rating: 2
I think he meant "you'll know it's a cop car".

Fuel Economy
By gamerk2 on 5/4/2009 9:04:26 AM , Rating: 2
FYI, the old cars got only 17 MPG, so this will lead to noticable savings, during a time where everything is getting their budgets slashed.

By Krytikal on 5/5/2009 10:26:53 AM , Rating: 2
Are they considering the fact that cop cars get damaged quite often?

Not convinced
By mindless1 on 5/3/09, Rating: -1
RE: Not convinced
By dj LiTh on 5/3/2009 10:38:35 PM , Rating: 1
Interesting.... and the police having slower, less powerfull, cars is a bad thing how?

RE: Not convinced
By ira176 on 5/4/09, Rating: 0
RE: Not convinced
By Jedi2155 on 5/4/2009 1:45:14 AM , Rating: 2
Although it doesn't to be significantly less powerful. The Altima hybrid is around 195 HP (net system), and more if they can get a bigger/better battery in there as the specs make it appear that motor can go up much higher.

The '09 Chevy Impala is around 211 HP, with a standard gas torque curve versus the benefit of electric torque.

I don't know why they didn't go for the Ford Fusion though...

RE: Not convinced
By mindless1 on 5/4/2009 7:04:17 PM , Rating: 2
Can a hybrid maintain 110MPH for hours? A police cruiser can. Is this going to be a scenario like on sci-fi shows where all the villain has to do is keep going fast until their pursuer runs out of juice?

What is the front/rear weight distribution of the hybrid?

Can the car last long term by shoehorning a bigger battery in, or is the whole platform build around the amount of torque the motor provides? Unibody cars can be strong but hybrids tend to be conservative about what things weigh while police cruisers are built like souped-up tanks.

Further, you wrote 211HP but that's the stock Impala right? Not the same config the police use. Theirs have heavy duty suspension, kevlar lined doors, plates in the seats (all these things = more weight, even more to strengthen a light unibody hybrid vehicle), and I should have written Crown Vic not Impala, the Crown Vic Interceptor has had a 250HP engine if not higher by now. I'm sure the Impala's engine was tweaked too.

An Altima just isn't a severe duty vehicle. An SUV would roll right over it or knock it off the road with grace while at least a Crown Vic, with a skilled driver, has a fighting chance.

As for electric torque, it really doesn't matter much, it's not a drag race. If a pursuit is significant it lasted plenty long enough that who gets up to 80MPH first doesn't matter as much as who makes the mistake, and who has a car that can take that punishment.

The Altima is not proven in this role. Law enforcement officers deserve something proven, not to be part of a grand experiment that politicians feel is politically correct.

RE: Not convinced
By callmeroy on 5/4/2009 8:08:10 AM , Rating: 2
The Altima is much nicer ride, has better handling and is over all a better car IMO over the Impala -- having driven both.

Its not about speed as much as movies would have you believe -- in regards to police you can only go so fast and maintain safe control of a vehicle in residential areas (much less a city) anyway....the point of responding isn't "drive like a maniac at 150 mph or faster" that doesn't serve the public good if you kill people or property damage enroute to the crime scene.

No, in the real world (ie. outside of movies and TV) cops use communication and efficiently route the closes vehicles to a scene at any given time...if the criminal is flying by - they radio ahead.....I don't care if you have a an Enzo -- it can't out run the radio.

Finally , most departments frown upon high speed pursuits unless there simply is no other option and the criminal is just that dangerous.

RE: Not convinced
By djkrypplephite on 5/4/2009 1:36:35 PM , Rating: 2
This is true. When I was buying my car, I was deciding between an Altima and Impala. The Altima was a much better car for a little bit more. I just passed 140,000 miles and I've only ever had the change the battery once. Everything else has been flawless. I love my car and I'm definitely buying another when that time comes, though it will probably be labeled a G35 or G37.

Anyway, back to this police thing . . .

RE: Not convinced
By Spuke on 5/4/2009 6:01:28 PM , Rating: 2
I don't care if you have a an Enzo -- it can't out run the radio.
Radios don't pull over speeding drivers. Cops do and a cop CAR is going to have to pull you over to arrest you. What works in the cops favor is the lack of driving skill of the speeder. They usually lose control of the car and wreck. And the people who have the skill to outrun cops are too smart to do it.

RE: Not convinced
By mindless1 on 5/4/2009 7:10:33 PM , Rating: 2
The Impala, or Crown Vic police cruisers use modified engines, transmissions, suspensions, frames, etc. Driving the stock car designed for your grandpa is not the same, and weight distribution is not likely the same for a hybrid vehicle though if someone knows that would be useful addt'l info.

It is about speed if someone doesn't want to stop. Lose a quarter mile on someone and they may lose you at any turn.

I doubt many chases stay in residential areas, but if someone were trying to get away and driving at unsafe speeds it can be of benefit to stop them sooner rather than later. I agree driving like a maniac is a bad idea but there's another factor.

What about if the police catch up but the suspect doesn't want to stop? How do you expect a light duty vehicle with a heavy battery to combat a typical car? We hope these things never happen but don't underestimate the willingness of someone to stay out of prison and what they will do, or even what a drunk will do without forethought.

In the real world, the police drive beefed up Crown Vics and Impalas! If they thought the Altima was a better option they could have used it long before now, but they did not think it was a better option, it was the politicians involvement that made it happen.

RE: Not convinced
By Brandon Hill on 5/3/2009 10:37:48 PM , Rating: 4
1) I believe there have been Prius and Escape Hybrid taxis doing 200k+ and 600k+ with standard service schedules.

2) The current Imapala is FWD (as used by the NYPD)

RE: Not convinced
By tastyratz on 5/4/2009 8:31:54 AM , Rating: 3
worthy note Brandon. This is change and people are afraid of change. How quickly everyone forgets the switch from crown vic's to the Impala...

Besides. Whether or not these companies will be around to service new vehicles under and not under warranty as well as provide supplies is a VERY valid concern in this time. Its a lot more expensive to replace a whole fleet of vehicles because you can no longer find ALL of the parts you might need if something fails.

I think its about time. The Altima is an excellent candidate and a proven car. Contrary to what misinformation mindless1 posted above its a move in the right direction.

The police shouldn't drive a big heavy for no reason vehicle for the possibility that they might want to "hit something" The majority of what they do doesn't involve "battering everything"
More weight means you need proportionally heavier duty service items which cost more to replace. One could easily argue that any losses in weight behind battering is negated by gains in acceleration, braking, and cornering during a car chase. Weight compensates for poor aerodynamics in high speeds, a vehicle with a better aerodynamic profile can definitely do better at speed than a generic heavy car.

Even if the weight mattered: The Altima in stock trim is 3471 while the impala is ~3550-3700~ or so depending on trim. We aren't talking a 2500lb civic here, the difference is a moot point.

The benefits of 16mpg vs 34 mpg with a hybrid will SWIFTLY repay the cost of the vehicle.... ESPECIALLY when you consider the massive amount of idling done in NYC in traffic, and by police in general who leave their cars running "just in case" frequently.
BUT - was that math you wanted? Why certainly!

Lets go with the 200k and 600k examples by Brandon just for giggles, as well as 2 bux a gallon for a round figure.
200k / 16 = 12500 gallons * 2 = $25,000 in gasoline. Make that $75,000 after 600k miles.
200k / 34 = 5882 * 2 = $11,764. Make it $35,294 after 600k.
That makes a net difference of $13,236 or $39,708 respectively.

Translation? Before standard service life is up the savings in gas mileage alone equal at minimum a FREE CAR REPLACEMENT. It LITERALLY pays for itself in entirety. it only takes 22k miles to make up for the $1500 in price difference.

Now that does not consider the usual over-estimate of the EPA and drastic reduction in city mileage when idling and in stop and go traffic for gasoline cars, while the reverse holds true with a hybrid which excels for city driving. Most likely the police will see significantly better gas mileage with a hybrid, and significantly worse mileage with a straight gas car.

Also consider the greater amount of on road time vs the average consumer. Cop cars in a city like nyc driven by multiple 8hr shifts a day patrolling wont take long to hit that kind of mileage vs just getting the standard American driver to their job at taco bell and back.

RE: Not convinced
By Smilin on 5/4/2009 1:04:37 PM , Rating: 2
I stopped reading just after the OMFG IT'S A LONGER POST THAN THE ORIGINAL ARTICLE.

+/- 0 from me :)

RE: Not convinced
By smackababy on 5/4/2009 3:51:10 PM , Rating: 2
You're forgetting the amount of idling a cop actually does. They probably average around 6-8MPG in reality.

RE: Not convinced
By mindless1 on 5/4/2009 7:27:21 PM , Rating: 2
You make these claims while ignoring that until now most police departments chose the Impala or Crown Vic after years of evaluation and it proving to be the best vehicle for the job... they didn't just flip a coin.

If the Altima was the better vehicle for the job, they could have chosen it long before now. They did not, leading to the conclusion that based upon their experience the Altima is overall inferior for their needs except now for the gas savings.

I do not want our police department "settling" for something inferior for the task, just because a politician found a way to shave money off their budget!

I have no misinformation besides some being FWD now, the proof is as I wrote, they were actually using these cars for many years, years during which they were definitely not oblivious to the existence of other automobiles.

How does common sense get lost around here? They far better than us know what they required.

As for better speed, false. The Crown Vic Interceptor can easily go dozens of MPH faster than it's speed limiter threshold. Who is misinformed?

More weight means it is built sturdier so you don't have items that are so prone to needing replaced. That is one of the reasons they chose these cars built like tanks. Who is misinformed?

Weight matters even when it is similar because the weight of the frame and body make for the strength, not just dead weight from a battery.

Was it math I wanted you ask? No, I did not ask for math because it is not just about a hypothetical situation you pose with numbers in favor of your own argument.

The fact is, they are not a taxi, they do not try to go constantly from point A to B to C, it would be absurd to calculate on 600K miles, but even then you totally ignore the addt'l maintenance costs of the weaker car, and you conveniently forgot that after hundreds of thousands of miles it's going to need a new battery or two or three or...

So it's fair to say you are totally ignoring all the facts involved and only using contrived numbers to look at what is cheaper instead of what had already proven better.

Remember something, if better MPG was all that mattered they could have chosen a different car years ago, and purchased them when it was time to purchase new cars for zero addt'l expense, only savings from better fuel economy. Apparently it baffles you that there are reasons why they didn't even after I posted a few things here trying to educate.

RE: Not convinced
By tastyratz on 5/4/2009 9:33:34 PM , Rating: 2
My point is your mis-educating.

years during which they were definitely not oblivious to the existence of other automobiles.

The government also means politics, and the image of an American government driving non domestic vehicles likely had just as much deciding weight of the vehicle itself.

They kept to a standardization which is an intelligent move from a fleet perspective. In that respect, did you think they were oblivious enough to not have done their research beforehand? Hybrids are fairly new, but now at this point proven. The Altima's chassis is also proven.
One could say that they settled on the impala since the crown vic ceased production making a change necessary.

As for better speed, false. The Crown Vic Interceptor can easily go dozens of MPH faster than it's speed limiter threshold. Who is misinformed?

Again, you. "Dozens of mph over speed limiter" has nothing to do with a vehicles ability to maneuver, brake, or accelerate. Most high speed chases aren't about ultimate top speed. (which btw the police interceptor crown vic top speed is 129 and impala 124 - what a joke any cheap 4cyl sports car can beat that easily)
The police general vehicles have the equivalent of a "tow package" that's about it. They are not this mythical unicorn people seem to think, they generally are slow and barely get out of their own way. They are not "tanks"

Weight does not also only only determine chassis ridgity, sturdiness, and impact resistance. Modern technology has allowed people to build a car with half the metal that's just as strong - just look at crash test results. Its not about thickness as much as it is about construction.

Saying that a car being heavier equates to better lasting service parts is absolutely beyond absurb. Service items such as brakes/shocks/etc are not where you accumulate all the extra bulk of the weight! If anything a heavier car is HARDER on service items requiring more frequent replacement.

I presented math because it showed you that over the service life of the vehicle it paid for itself several times over - even if it required severe maintenance it would still be financially viable meaning more new cars in the fleet in the same budget.

Where exactly is it inadequate for replacement? what legitimate points can you raise and bring to the table for discussion? Costs of batteries? The IAG 5 year projected maintenance cost of the Altima is $1,397, the impala is $1,546.

Your assumptions are just FUD. Your assuming it's the inferior car just because they had selected something else before. What if this was always the superior vehicle for the task, but they wanted to wait till it was more road tested to be confident enough to make such a bold switch that would certainly result in extreme scrutiny?
Again this is like the crown vic to impala switch, To say This is the settlement while the other one was the choice is biased to your own assumptions.

I am more than willing to debate vehicle viability if you can bring reasonable informed arguments to the table comparing the 2 choices.

RE: Not convinced
By mindless1 on 5/5/2009 1:51:52 AM , Rating: 2
You write about politics but they had other American cars they could have chosen too, so that is not relevant.

They are not driving a slolum race, the typical high speed pursuit is over fairly straight roads, and again there were other American cars with better handling so either way your notion is incorrect.

The vehicles don't just have the equivalent of a tow package, even a wiki can tell you that. It doesn't have to be a magical unicorn, it only has to address the shortcomings people are quick to point out for the Crown Vic and Impala, which they did well enough to be the car models of choice.

If you think they are not tanks, what car do you think is more likely to plow them over? Car, not vehicle substantially larger like an SUV.

Modern tech does not make unibody cars as sturdy, or hadn't you noticed that they can't support as much, that they are designed to crumple which is why they pass crash tests well but what makes them unsuited to crash-n-bag driving like disabling another vehicle.

You presented math with unrealistic numbers and tried to ignore that any new model car using substantially young tech has several more unforseen problems than mature tech, obviously this is why a model has refinements made in successive generations.

You tried to suggest the regular service parts aren't extra weight and a heavier car would require would be harder on them, but at the same time you equated the police car improvements to a towing package that would be comprised of a heavy duty suspension, shocket, brakes, MORE than able to handle not only the weight of the vehicle but external stresses placed upon it, so even if your underestimation of the changes to a police cruzer were correct, you have it quite backwards about the effect of the addt'l weight.

The addt'l weight is from a stronger frame and body. It would fare worse in some crash tests because the crash test is a test of occupant safety but not the ability of the car to be a battering ram or survive long term higher stress use.

Yes I am assuming it is the inferior car based on criteria other than fuel efficiency, because they already had the option of the car and similar enough alternative cars before now.

Even if we limit it to American cars, unibody cars, cars with better gas mileage, cars with better crash test dummy ratings, we are still left with them having other American cars they could have chosen, at lower initial purchase price but apparently they know better than you what is important in a police cruiser.

When a politician comes along and suggests they know more than the people using equipment, beware. You have backwards argued an impossible situation, the proof is in what they chose for years having all the options you suggest are important until we get to hybrid tech, and that being nothing of benefit except for gas mileage.

Inferior car to save a buck. It may be fine for daily commuters but once again they did not flip a coin to choose Impala or Crown Vic, there were quite a few they could have picked instead of any others were more virtuous for their use, not your ideals.

RE: Not convinced
By tastyratz on 5/5/2009 9:29:52 AM , Rating: 2
Maybe other American cars were not as qualified, and that's why they weren't chosen.
Your acting as if this is a complete fleet replacement, and half of our arguments are fairly moot anyways.

The police have many vehicles at almost every department and many specialize in certain tasks. Want a battering ram or car that can plow another one over without it? Use the Dodge charger, or one of their choices in SUV's for that purpose. You want high speed chases? Use the charger or other cars MUCH more suited for the task (though I would love you to show me a place in busy NYC specifically where you could even achieve "high speed")

My argument about handling was just that on the point of weight, not the Altima specifically. a heavier car is less maneuverable. A less maneuverable car can easily be out navigated in a less than perfect driving environment. While your more concerned about whether the car will hold up to a few hits, I'm more concerned if they can even catch up to the car to hit it to begin with. Even in a straight road the top speed of police interceptor crown vic's and Impala's is laughable. But again, a tangent and NA in this instance.

The crown vic had more of a tow package, but checking a wiki as you suggest points to the police package for the current police car (the impala) and the only difference? a v6, beefier shocks, and a button to shut all the lights off. That's about over the consumer model. The crown vic had a lot of little changes overall tailored for police use and specifications.

If anything I think the switch from the crown vic to impala deserved equal criticism for being potentially inferior. It's being praised by you because it's a choice they have previously made, but you assume that the new choice is inferior because its change. That logic does not apply and is a double standard - Why not think the impala is inferior because they chose it over the crown vic when they did? Difference is the Altima hybrid as well as hybrid in general needed to prove itself for a few years before switching. Not because it was inferior but because it was too new.

The math I presented wasn't unrealistic numbers, and if anything was in your arguments favor. Cost to ownership is similar, but true. These vehicles aren't likely to remain in fleet service for 10 or 15 years like consumer cars generally do. Gas costs were epa and not reflective of actual police use - which if you ask me would likely DOUBLE the benefits actually on the street. One could argue that all other things equal a fleet that costs half as much means twice as many new cars for the same budget, or more officers on duty. Just because it saves them money on gas, doesn't mean its inferior for saving a buck. How quickly people forget the versatile flat torque curve of an electric motor as well.

RE: Not convinced
By teflonbilly on 5/4/2009 1:44:25 PM , Rating: 2
I didn't read in that article anything about them stopping the use of their existing fleet. i am pretty sure the NYPD uses more than 40 cars. This is to replace worn out cars that need to be replaced.
The Toyota Hybrid drivetrain has been in use in taxi fleets for a long time so the idea that there will be unforeseen issues I think is gone. By looking at taxi records they can figure out a cost per KM for these machines.
The amount of fuel a cruiser burns sitting idle while the officer uses his computer to do paperwork is huge. This would be a big cost savings right there.

RE: Not convinced
By mindless1 on 5/4/2009 7:34:48 PM , Rating: 2
I suspect you are overlooking that the cost per mile of a taxi and a police cruiser aren't necessarily the same. Police cruisers are deliberately built stronger than a taxi because they have fewer, but harder, miles placed on them.

If this were not important they would have used ligher unibody cars all along. Taxis don't tend to deliberately ram cars that won't stop either, what is best way to put a ram on a car without a frame?

I agree with the point you raised that they may replace worn out cars, in which case it makes a little more sense if it were a fleet of something other than police cruisers, if all they cared about was saving gas money, but again I want to remind you that if this was the top priority they would've chosen a different car model long ago.

We R Suck
By TheBigBadGRIM on 5/3/09, Rating: -1
RE: We R Suck
By tjr508 on 5/3/2009 10:53:38 PM , Rating: 1
America loses less money per Nissan than we do per Chevy. This sounds plenty patriotic to me.

RE: We R Suck
By Zoomer on 5/3/2009 11:37:39 PM , Rating: 2
Ford Fusions?

RE: We R Suck
By ira176 on 5/4/2009 12:26:51 AM , Rating: 1
They're probably made in Mexico.

RE: We R Suck
By sprockkets on 5/4/2009 12:35:21 AM , Rating: 2
Probably in Fleet Rock, Michigan, along with the US Mazda6.

RE: We R Suck
By teldar on 5/4/2009 4:39:14 PM , Rating: 2
It's actually FLAT Rock.
And I don't know. The Mustang was made in the joint factory. Don't know what all is made there any more.

RE: We R Suck
By jconan on 5/3/2009 11:41:58 PM , Rating: 2
just more moving violation tickets sine drivers won't recognize it and think it's a security car and speed. smart thinking...

RE: We R Suck
By sprockkets on 5/4/2009 12:54:26 AM , Rating: 1
Where I live we have an unmarked Ford Mustang GT, an unmarked Explorer, an unmarked Impala with a Harley Davidson tag on the front, a Dodge Charger, and the usual Ford Crown Vics.

One time, another Mustang pulled up against the cop Mustang. He then raced him. That will be the last time he ever does that.

Just 3 days ago he caught two losers in a Hyundai Accent and Toyota Matrix trying to outspeed each other going 60 in a 45mph zone. I didn't care that they past me going 50. He was on the other side of a small strip mall so you couldn't see him before it was too late.

Why do people in POS Camry's, Corolla's and Minivan's speed? It makes no sense; they drive such lifeless boring vehicles. It's so fun to watch them get pulled over. I honk my horn as I repass them as they get caught.

RE: We R Suck
By goku on 5/4/2009 2:43:13 AM , Rating: 2
It's because it's more fun to drive fast in a slow vehicle than to drive slow in a fast vehicle. Try driving a 20yr old economy beater at 90mph vs driving a 3 series BMW from 2005 and you'll understand what I mean.

RE: We R Suck
By jconan on 5/4/2009 6:55:43 AM , Rating: 2
that's because the engine works so hard that people think it's really goin fast... however in car with a solid chasis and suspension no matter how fast the car is goin, it's still not fast enough and drivers give up on the speed...

RE: We R Suck
By sprockkets on 5/4/2009 3:04:48 PM , Rating: 2
More or less it the vehicle doesn't fit the personality of the driver. It isn't fun to take a camry or minivan fast in a curve, and that doesn't involve breaking any laws.

RE: We R Suck
By Spuke on 5/4/2009 5:37:01 PM , Rating: 2
It's because it's more fun to drive fast in a slow vehicle than to drive slow in a fast vehicle.
Speak for yourself, my sports car is 10 billion times more fun at a stop light than my previous two Sentra's were at 100 mph.

RE: We R Suck
By foolsgambit11 on 5/4/2009 2:05:08 PM , Rating: 2
Probably because most people don't speed for the fun of it, but because they think they'll get to where they're going faster. Well, they will if they don't get caught, but it won't be that much faster. Still, it is a little faster, and the economics of it all may make sense. Going 70 for 30 miles takes 25 minutes, 43 seconds. Going 90, it takes 20 minutes. Wow. nearly 6 minutes. Do it every work day, both ways, and you'll save 2857 minutes - 47.6 hours (assume 250 work days, which is about 5 days a week, less either 2 weeks of vacation or national holidays). Now, assuming you get caught twice a year (unlikely, really), at a cost of $200 each time, and that's a cost of $4.20/hour. Turning that travel time into work time will pay off for people making more than about $5.15/hour (before taxes).

Of course, if you get in an accident, all the calculations get thrown out the window - or the windshield, as it were.

RE: We R Suck
By m0mentary on 5/3/09, Rating: 0
By toyotabedzrock on 5/3/09, Rating: -1
RE: Un-American
By m0mentary on 5/3/2009 11:24:44 PM , Rating: 5
*looks at username*

RE: Un-American
By Connoisseur on 5/3/2009 11:44:03 PM , Rating: 5
"the NYPD instead went with the Smyrna, Tennessee-built Nissan Altima Hybrid".

Does it really matter that it's a Nissan? It's built in the U.S. In fact, i think you'd be pretty hard pressed to find a U.S. vehicle that didn't have a significant number of parts that came from foreign countries (think engine, powertrain, suspension, tires, frame, door/window materials). I'm sure there's a few examples here or there but it's doubtful.

RE: Un-American
By sprockkets on 5/4/2009 12:42:57 AM , Rating: 2
Surprisingly, most tires, including good-years, are made in Japan. Transmissions like Getrag are German, Aisin are Japanese, some stuff like the brakes say FoMoCo on them, while the engine is usually engineered by the parent company and made locally. Honda I think makes their own glass. Mazda and probably Ford say Saint-Gobine on them, what comes up is a French language site. Koyo-Seiko is Japanese, but makes their stuff locally here too in Tennessee and SC. They merged with Toyota.

RE: Un-American
By whirabomber on 5/4/2009 6:46:02 AM , Rating: 2
There is a good year plant down the road from where I live, here in Ohio. I know of a Cooper tire plant en-route from Toledo to Detroit. My Silverado 4x4 was made in Indiana (75% domestic, with Mexico being the largest supplier of foreign made parts) but all the 4x2 Silverado’s were made in Mexico of 75%ish (may have been 80%) domestic. I would guess that the Nissan "hybrid" is close to 25% domestic parts content.

Unfortunately some people look at the "made in usa" label on the ricers but miss the "of 25% domestic parts" when justifying their ricer purchases. So sad as the majority of auto industry jobs are in the parts business.

RE: Un-American
By Spuke on 5/4/2009 7:12:49 PM , Rating: 1
Unfortunately some people look at the "made in usa" label on the ricers but miss the "of 25% domestic parts" when justifying their ricer purchases.
Most Nissan's are around 70% domestic parts content not 25%. Mustangs have about a 70% DPC but I don't hear the rednecks bitchin about those.

RE: Un-American
By callmeroy on 5/4/2009 8:18:13 AM , Rating: 2
Now the tires are largely made off our shores, yes....Ohio used to be (for lack of better wording) "Tire Center USA" a few decades back....a good portion of the tires made in this country all came out of Ohio plants.

Several of my dad's extended family members (cousins, uncles, etc.) used to work in various positions at tire plants in Ohio many years back. Like the steel and textile industries that the USA once had --- the tire business was yet another manufacturing business that went down the tubes domestically and found its "home" in foreign lands....

Is there any MAJOR thing that the USA still produces 100% in America for that matter?

RE: Un-American
By sviola on 5/4/2009 10:23:59 AM , Rating: 2

RE: Un-American
By monomer on 5/4/2009 11:52:46 AM , Rating: 2
Unfortunately, to use those processors, we have to buy Taiwanese Motherboards. :P

RE: Un-American
By sprockkets on 5/4/2009 3:07:50 PM , Rating: 2
Kitchen Aid Mixers, but only the expensive ones, Micron Memory I think is still made here, but the rest of it, including the Taiwanese boards, even they moved their factories to China.

Of course, Intel processors are engineered all over the world, and are fabbed here and there.

RE: Un-American
By lagitup on 5/4/09, Rating: -1
RE: Un-American
By SerafinaEva on 5/4/09, Rating: 0
RE: Un-American
By FITCamaro on 5/4/2009 6:02:52 AM , Rating: 4
Yeah that's why their quality is rated as good as Honda's and Toyota's now. The new Fusion hybrid is getting great reviews.

Get your head out of your ass. This isn't the 80s-early 90s.

RE: Un-American
By freethinx on 5/4/2009 4:13:47 AM , Rating: 5
This Article is from 1999, I imagine the percentages have changed according to the trend.

"Here’s a quick quiz. Which one of the following is a foreign-made vehicle?
This sign posted at UAW Local 659's parking lot in Flint begs the question, "What is a foreign car?"



Mazda 626

Mitsubishi Eclipse

Nissan Quest

Mercedes ML320

Cadillac Catera

The correct answer is the Cadillac Catera, which is built in Germany by General Motors. All the others are built in the United States. GM also produces nine of its other current car and truck models in Canada or Mexico. Ford produces three models in Canada, and DaimlerChrysler produces at least five models in just Mexico and Canada.

On the other hand, the U. S. is now home to nine foreign-owned auto companies (Honda, Isuzu, BMW, Mercedes, Mazda, Mitsubishi, Nissan, Subaru, and Toyota) that build three million cars per year in this country. The international auto makers will manufacture 26 different 1998 car models here, and eight of those models are built by workers who are members of the United Auto Workers union.

The transplants are not just assembling cars here with foreign parts. The domestic content of the vehicles built here by foreign car companies is now 69 percent, only slightly less than the 78 percent domestic content of cars built in the U. the Big Three.

Joint ventures between the Big Three and international auto makers to build cars in the U. S. are now commonplace: GM and Toyota are partners, as are Ford and Mazda. Before its merger with Daimler-Benz, Chrysler teamed up with Mitsubishi. A dozen domestic and international manufacturers now build 12 millions cars annually in the U. S., indicating that we are becoming the strategic manufacturing center for a global automotive industry.

In this global car market, it is getting harder and harder to tell the difference between an "American car" and a "foreign car." Is a Cadillac Catera built in Germany foreign or American? What about the Toyota Corolla built in California by UAW workers? What about the vehicles that will now be produced by DaimlerChrysler? What about Jaguars built in England as a division of Ford Motor Company?

If myths die hard, nowhere do economic myths about international trade die harder than in Flint, Michigan. Despite the increasing senselessness of trying to accurately define a "foreign car" in today’s global economy, several organizations in Flint have policies that accommodate "American cars" but strictly prohibit "foreign cars."

For instance, the UAW Local 659 in Flint has the following sign in the parking lot: The parking of any foreign made autos on Local 659 property is absolutely prohibited. Violators will have their auto towed at their own personal expense. Woodrow Stanley, when elected mayor of Flint in 1991, announced a similar policy for the underground parking ramp below Flint City Hall.

Would the UAW or the city of Flint actually tow or ban Cadillac Cateras from their lots because they are "foreign cars" from Germany, or Buick Regals because they are built in Canada, or GMC Suburban C1500s because they are built in Mexico?

It is hard to imagine that the UAW would really tow one of the 26 models built by U. S. workers for international auto makers, especially UAW-built vehicles like the Isuzu Hombre truck, Mazda 626, Mazda B-series truck, Mitsubishi Eclipse, Mitsubishi Galant, Nissan Quest, Toyota Corolla, and the Toyota Tacoma truck. If you can not precisely define what a "foreign car" is any more, how can you ban them or tow them away?

Our high standard of living in Michigan is a direct result of trade—trade with other states and trade with other countries. Michiganians should shop for the lowest price and highest quality and we should buy the products that give us the highest value, regardless of whether the products were produced across the street or across the world. That’s what a global economy is all about—having access to the best and cheapest goods from wherever they are made.

Parking lot restrictions against foreign vehicles should be seen for what they really are: modern, automotive Jim Crow laws that discriminate against certain Americans based on the national origin of their vehicle. Although these restrictions may have made sense to some people in the past, they have no place in a global economy where trying to even define a "foreign car" can drive you crazy"

BTW. . . The average speed of a vehicle in NYC is less than 10 mph at any given time. I live in NYC and for the most part police vehicles are used for transportation and taking up parking spots.

RE: Un-American
By vapore0n on 5/4/2009 8:09:57 AM , Rating: 2
no no no, the point is that they took ur jerbs!

RE: Un-American
By Roy2001 on 5/4/2009 11:45:38 AM , Rating: 2
[quote]The parking of any foreign made autos on Local 659 property is absolutely prohibited[/quote]

It should be: The parking of any non-UAW made autos on US property is absolutely prohibited. This will ensure UAW keep sucking blood from taxpayers in addition to those "patriots".

RE: Un-American
By foolsgambit11 on 5/4/2009 2:18:18 PM , Rating: 3
But aren't those American-based Japanese plants non-union? Because they're on the sign as "American cars". Without looking it up, I'd say they better be non-union plants, otherwise the standard argument that the UAW is the cause of the fall of "U.S." auto makers wouldn't make sense. But I don't want to start a battle about workers' rights, the validity of unionizing low-skilled labor, the value of a day's work, or how much a UAW worker used to make/currently makes/will make/gets in benefits/makes retired/makes when laid-off/&c, &c, &c....

The only real difference in nationality between many foreign cars and many American cars is where the executives live, as far as I can tell. And the only difference between the cars from a purely utilitarian perspective is that so-called American cars rarely offer the same value as their so-called Japanese equivalents, even today. I'm not a business major, so I won't venture to guess why that is.

RE: Un-American
By freethinx on 5/5/2009 12:25:15 AM , Rating: 2
To your first portion, many of the plants are non-union based, but some are UAW contracted. The difference is generally how the UAW was contracted. The big 3, I would say, have some of the most bloated UAW contracts imaginable. The foreign car plants that have UAW contracts only have them for one reason, the UAW wanted a piece of the action, but they definitely did their bidding to get in on it. as such, they have a more realistic contract that pays less in benefits and pensions but seems to be competitive enough to attract tens of thousands of union employees.

I think the main idea that many people dont get yet is that there is no such thing as a truly American car any longer. Buying domestic doesn't mean anything because most of the Big 3's brands are produced to our north and south. A large portion of "foreign" vehicles are composed of imported parts, but assembled here to save costs on whole car importing that plagued foreign car companies back in the 80's.

What happened is simple, all these companies did what they thought was necessary to remain competitive. The Big 3 stopped shoveling money in domestic production and instead went to Mexico and Canada because parts and labor were more affordable. As a result, the quality of craftsmanship from the various parts to the overall car have decreased. There's even a model of Ford truck that has a normal failure in the exhaust system that dealers actually say "happens all the time"(I'll find out which one if you care enough).

Foreign car companies did some what of the opposite. They began bringing their production to the US in an effort to cut import costs and become competitive in the US. At first it started as assembly plants only, but their business model has developed into a hybrid of R&D, Assembly, and small scale production runs. They've heavily invested in assembly plants that have smart design so that the can fill niche markets by doing small runs of a particular vehicle without losing profits. The biggest argument for why to by domestic was by the percentage of domestic parts being used. While this ratio was initially very in favor of domestic companies, but today as much as 70% of foreign vehicle parts are either produced here or assembled by an American company in a foreign country.

It would have been hard to argue which was the better model back in the 80's when these developments began, but I think it's easy to conclude that the Japanese in particular got it right.

RE: Un-American
By teflonbilly on 5/4/2009 1:57:17 PM , Rating: 1
I think they may have gone with the Nissan is for its Toyota built Drive train. It is one of the longest running Hybrid drive trains out there, and most used in Taxi fleets in North America. That would give it a good history to look at for reliability.

American cars bad quality
By SerafinaEva on 5/4/09, Rating: -1
RE: American cars bad quality
By B3an on 5/4/09, Rating: -1
RE: American cars bad quality
By FITCamaro on 5/4/2009 8:38:30 AM , Rating: 3
GMs 3.8L V6 is one of its most tried and true powertrains. And cop cars don't run factory suspension.

RE: American cars bad quality
By teldar on 5/4/2009 4:42:37 PM , Rating: 2
This person has a very obvious anti-american manufacturer bias. I wouldn't try to reason with them, as they don't appear to be able to reason.
Quality reports and awards don't mean anything to this person. Only personal bias does.

hybrid cop car
By AlmostExAMD on 5/4/09, Rating: -1
RE: hybrid cop car
By BruceLeet on 5/4/2009 3:53:00 AM , Rating: 2
I don't know if you'd be able to "outrun" the cops in the NYPDs metropolitan district (the city). All those pedestrians, taxi's.

It would be virtually impossible to really push your car to 140+ in NYPDs district ;)

RE: hybrid cop car
By akosixiv on 5/4/2009 5:17:26 AM , Rating: 3
its NY. Even if you place in there a souped up, 1000HP, 4WD race car, it won't run faster than the other cars which are in a traffic jam.

Crooks are much better off being on foot or on a bike.

RE: hybrid cop car
By FITCamaro on 5/4/2009 6:05:32 AM , Rating: 4
Most police departments don't chase crooks anymore.

RE: hybrid cop car
By Murloc on 5/4/2009 7:19:27 AM , Rating: 2
in the city the traffic doesn't allow for that, no need for fast cars :)

RE: hybrid cop car
By monomer on 5/4/2009 11:39:43 AM , Rating: 2
Edmunds has the Altima Hybrid acceleration at 0-60 MPH in 7.6 seconds, which while it isn't blazingly fast, is still perfectly respectable compared to most V6 sedans.

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