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Asus Motherboard with 9400 GPU  (Source: NVIDIA)
New GeForce 9400 and 9300 GPUs feature 16 cores

NVIDIA officially announced today that it has new GeForce integrated GPUs that will be available soon on motherboards form the typical NVIDIA partners. The new integrated GPUs include the GeForce 9400 and 9300 and are intended for desktop PCs using Intel CPUs.

NVIDIA says that the new GPUs offer full system I/O and discrete-level performance in a package half the size of previous integrated GPUs. The NVIDIA 9400 and 9300 GPUs have 16 cores and are CUDA capable. NVIDIA even promises that the integrated GPUs are capable of playing the latest top PC games and Blu-ray movies.

Dr. Jon Peddie said in a statement, "These new mGPUs give NVIDIA a big advantage over other integrated graphics chips. By doing so much parallel processing on a single chip, they can accelerate the new visual computing applications people are getting, and at a reasonable price. The GeForce 9400 and 9300 mGPUs set a new standard for what users should expect from today’s more mainstream desktop systems."

The new 9-series motherboard GPUs support NVIDIA PureVideo HD and are capable of offloading all video processing from the CPU to the GPU. The GPUs support advanced audio and video including uncompressed LPMC 7.1, dual-link DVI and HDMI.

Support for NVIDIA's Hybrid SLI technology is included and boost performance up to 70% higher than the motherboard GPU alone. NVIDIA says that motherboards using the new GPU will ship this month from XFX, ASUS, ECS, EVGA, Foxconn, Galaxy, and more.



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value gamer
By aapocketz on 10/20/2008 6:11:11 PM , Rating: 2
These new integrated graphics motherboards are ideal for HTPC but are even ideal for non-bleeding edge, value based, hardcore gamers, who don't have the highest res displays. Consider the fact that you can buy a motherboard with these new integrated graphics that will generally play most current games at performance settings on a 720p display (better than a wii!). Generally these motherboards are only a small premium over a motherboard without integrated graphics (say $20?) and use less power (may not matter to you if your Mom pays the power bill).

For the gamer the savings is apparent if it allows you to acceptably delay the graphics card purchase, which is one of the fastest depreciating component in your system.

scenario 1:
buy MB $80 and discrete graphics $300
schenario 2:
buy integrated MB $100, buy same or similar graphics 6-12 months later for $150 as upgrade.

scenario 2 is perhaps the best choice for the system refreshing gamer who would previously buy a value-range graphics card. Consider someone upgrading from a system with a X1900xt or 7800GT or similar vintage. This is the first time integrated graphics would be a considered option. The hybrid mode graphics modes also add value to the gamer who may later add a graphics card.




RE: value gamer
By Spoelie on 10/21/2008 4:53:23 AM , Rating: 5
quote:
non-bleeding edge, value based, hardcore gamers
That's an oxymoron.
quote:
For the gamer the savings is apparent if it allows you to acceptably delay the graphics card purchase.
For a new pc, there may be a slight possibility, if the person in question is not interested in image quality. For an upgrade, this will probably be a step down from what the gamer already has, except if he was using integrated before.
quote:
Consider someone upgrading from a system with a X1900xt or 7800GT or similar vintage. This is the first time integrated graphics would be a considered option.
Definitely wrong, the x1900xt beats the 8600GTS hands down in every single game, and that card had a fast local frame buffer, 32 shaders instead of 16, faster clocks than any of the new integrated cores. The x1900xt was a generation ahead of 7800GT, so maybe against that last card integrated has a fighting chance.
quote:
hybrid mode graphics modes also add value to the gamer who may later add a graphics card
Only when buying specific nvidia models.


RE: value gamer
By gerf on 10/21/2008 5:11:13 AM , Rating: 2
Not all gamers have gobs of money to throw around on super-fast new systems. Just because you're addicted to games doesn't mean you have excess money to spend on games.


RE: value gamer
By Spoelie on 10/21/2008 5:39:46 AM , Rating: 3
For the cost of a big-name game ($60-$70), you can buy a graphics card that clobbers integrated graphics (try 9500GT or HD4650/4670). Gaming in itself is a luxury, but if you have the money to buy games, you have the money for better-than-integrated gaming. If you don't have that money, you should seriously consider reprioritizing your spending.

ergo hardcore gamer is not a value/non-bleeding-edge gamer


RE: value gamer
By Diesel Donkey on 10/21/2008 9:57:59 AM , Rating: 2
Are there really PC games in the $60-$70 range these days? I thought those prices were limited to consoles. The newest game I bought was F.E.A.R. a couple years ago, but taking a look on Newegg now, the only games I see above $45 are the super-duper-special-edition-kitchen-sink-included versions.


RE: value gamer
By FITCamaro on 10/21/2008 8:37:46 AM , Rating: 3
You can build an incredibly fast system these days for under $1000. I mean Neweggs got 9800GTXs for $150 now. Dual core processors are dirt cheap as is RAM. Hell the most expensive component in your system these days can be your motherboard.


Price compared to Intel?
By BigToque on 10/20/2008 3:56:41 PM , Rating: 2
Does anyone know how much these chipsets cost compared to Intel's integrated chipsets?

I know these are more powerful than Intel's chipsets, but I can't imagine they are less expensive to produce. I don't expect to see many of these used in anything other than home PC's.

How much of the business market does nVidia have?




RE: Price compared to Intel?
By bodar on 10/20/2008 11:21:26 PM , Rating: 2
Aren't these gaming chipsets? I doubt many businesses would want them, other than review mags/sites. nVidia's professional workstation series is called Quadro and it's what pros would want, since it's their bread and butter. Only a hobbyist would use a GeForce card for such work.

http://www.nvidia.com/page/quadrofx_family.html

So, yeah, these are intended for home use. Maybe you'd want something like this for multiple monitors, but you don't need a gaming chipset for that. My work PC has an old Quadro NVS 285 for dual-monitors, since we found a bunch of them sitting on our parts shelf, still in whitebox.


RE: Price compared to Intel?
By Blight AC on 10/21/2008 8:59:15 AM , Rating: 2
I'm interested in it for the Hybrid SLI. Power off my GeForce 9800GTX when I'm on the desktop and don't need a lot of processing power.

Not only that, using the on-board chipset for something like PhysX processing while the discreet card does video is a nice way to use both in games that support it.

I've actually been waiting for this since they announced it in June of 07... it's about time they released this for the Intel Platform.

This will also be great for Gaming Notebooks too, as using the onboard for desktop will save a lot of battery power for those who want a gaming notebook with discreet graphics, but don't always want to be tethered for menial tasks like DVD playback or browsing the internet.


HTPC only
By CollectorZ on 10/20/2008 5:39:21 PM , Rating: 1
Gamers are just waiting for the 55nm GTX280x2....

I am sure the original Starcraft will run just fine on the 9300....




RE: HTPC only
By Calin on 10/21/2008 4:06:43 AM , Rating: 4
The original Starcraft ran (smooth but felt slow to me) on a Pentium 100, 16 MB RAM and a S3 4MB video card


Key to gaming success.
By SlyNine on 10/20/2008 1:56:29 PM , Rating: 3
I think these low end systems are the key to PC gaming success, and the key to Nvidia's & ATI's success as well. If you want a mass market you have to target the lowest commend denominator. Well here it is and no I'm not impressed.

They need to do better then this. Slow PC development will hurt console development as well, The power of the 360 and PS3 is in large part due to tough competition between ATI and Nvidia.




RE: Key to gaming success.
By SlyNine on 10/20/08, Rating: 0
???
By bebesito21 on 10/20/2008 8:49:33 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Dr. Jon Peddie


who the heck is that and why is he giving advise about the future of gaming?

also, i dont think anyone has proved that hybrid gpus - onboard and add on- work.




By superkdogg on 10/21/2008 1:08:43 PM , Rating: 2
There's a game that these chipsets will play just fine.

It's called World of Warcraft. You've heard of it, right?

What gamers tend to forget is that the stereotypical gamers that buy the brand new stuff so they can be the first one with 4xAA on Crysis are the exception, not the rule. There are plenty of people out there who want to simply be able to play a game they enjoy who hardly can see a difference in quality settings and get more from the gameplay than the graphics.

I'll definitely be picking one of these mobos up when they hit the channel. I had a friend recently ask me to build him a machine that can do multimedia and play WoW. I'll give him one of these, an OC'd C2D, 2 gigs of ram and he'll think it's an awesome setup because he has no concept of what he could have for more $$$ but more importantly he has no NEED for anything more. With a non-integrated solution, he's looking at more $$$ for no benefit and less future flexibility (maybe there will be a more demanding WoW port and he could add a graphics card and run PhyX or a futurized hybrid SLI).




Hey, it still
By Reclaimer77 on 10/21/2008 2:29:19 PM , Rating: 2
It still outperforms any CARD available for the Mac ! Hahahah suck it fanboi's.




Review for 9300
By maroon1 on 10/22/2008 4:52:11 AM , Rating: 2
Here is review for the integrated Geforce 9300
http://techreport.com/articles.x/15690/7

Great performance




Gamers
By 325hhee on 10/20/08, Rating: -1
RE: Gamers
By Zirconium on 10/20/2008 1:47:57 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I'm very curious on their claim of being able to play top end games, and would love to see the FPS numbers.
Anandtech just had an article on this: http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=3432

No, "real gamers" don't use integrated graphics. However, these things are good enough for many users' needs and would work really great in an HTPC.


RE: Gamers
By Mitch101 on 10/20/2008 2:15:09 PM , Rating: 2
Come to think of it why don't we have a Motherboard on the level of or higher performance than an Xbox 360 by now for enthusiasts that want gaming power in a low profile?

I would be open to buying a motherboard with something like a high end graphics chip or even x2 config built onto the motherboard so I could have something more low profile that can one can game on. I could use a L bracket to lay a PCI-E graphics card flat but then I would have to customize a case. Most high end graphic cards never get released in low profile formats until they are obsolete.

They have built so much onto the motherboard that I dont really have a need for PCI slots and if high end graphics are on the mobo already I wont need the PCI-E slot either. As for video capture cards they can be USB externals.

Heck why not GPU sockets on a mobo and Ram Slots. Ok that might be too far but there should be an enthusiast mobo by now.


RE: Gamers
By Omega215D on 10/20/2008 4:41:29 PM , Rating: 2
Motherboards tend to be 6 layers (resin or whatever) and adding any more interconnects will complicate the manufacture of a motherboard. This will make the board cost much more and maybe an increase in failure rate from bad connections to heat. All while maintaining its benefit of being upgradeable with other add-in cards, RAM and SATA ports for drives and much more without having to throw out an already expensive motherboard should a new socketed GPU come out that has more pins.

Maybe some day there'll be a motherboard where everything is socketed but we'll see.


RE: Gamers
By Mitch101 on 10/20/2008 6:02:07 PM , Rating: 2
I kind of follow you but It really shouldn't be any more difficult than creating a gaming system motherboard like the 360's. RROD jokes aside.

GPC - Gaming PC - Homebrew HDTV Gamebox?
Essentially a small form factor PC in a casing designed for your living room. Comes pre-installed with Linux or Windows with XBMC. Throw on a wireless Logitech gamepad and an IR port and its good to go. I know someone will reference Phantom but this would be more of an open system.


RE: Gamers
By MGSsancho on 10/20/2008 7:12:36 PM , Rating: 2
6 layers? 40 layers boards have been made with 10ghz signals for over 13 years already. 25ghz for over 5 years. heat and all the problems you mentioned are not a problem for low end technology like desktop mobos and server mobos. that is not a problem. mass producing (lots of thousands are currently being done im talking about millions of boards) is a little bit more tricky but its still not bad. only complications are really 10ghz+ but more so are fine details (tiny interconnections and traces.) the mobo in your blackberry is 5 years more advanced then a desktop mobo.

it is really about cost. i have no idea what components, testing, packaging, shipping and stuff cost. im only familiar with board manufacturing. but a BS figure from out of thin air, id guess a standard desktop mobo cost less than $10 per board to manufacture. then again ive seen boards a square inch in size been made for prototype testing break the 6 figure mark. but to keep it simple, to add a few layers and keep the thickness the same, i would say tripling the cost to be safe.


RE: Gamers
By theapparition on 10/21/2008 8:08:15 AM , Rating: 2
Going to 8 layers doesn't cost all that much. In fact, I belive some of the nVidia motherboards are already at 8 layers. Going mulit-layer itself is the cost driver, from the cheap doublesided boards. Once you have the prepreg stack, it doesn't make much difference if you're sqeezing together 3 or 4. Only when you get to 16+ layers is there a chance of mis-registration (where the inner layers shift and via's no longer align).
If a 6 layer board is $10, figure an 8 layer one at around $12. But if you're making a million of them........that's 2million dollars you've just lost. Always better to reduce cost as much as possible. Another thing, you don't pay per board, you pay per panel. The more boards you can fit on a panel, the lower each board will cost (aka chips on silion wafers). Shop's that have optimized panel size for motherboards will have a lower price.


RE: Gamers
By Calin on 10/21/2008 4:23:26 AM , Rating: 2
The days of the backplanes are long gone, and won't return


RE: Gamers
By theapparition on 10/21/2008 8:01:49 AM , Rating: 2
Guess we should stop designing that backplane based system because Calin said so.

Seriously, backplanes are still here and will stay for a while. VME, CPCI and lately ATCA and uTCA. All backplane based.

Get a clue.


RE: Gamers
By rudy on 10/20/2008 5:28:54 PM , Rating: 1
True but
Think about the main complaint of companies and even us. Casual / noob gamers cannot handle high end games before they become knowledgable enough to buy a better card. If this could allow them to run at 30-60fps on any modern game then there would probably be more noobs becoming avid gamers. On the other hand with intel boards you will keep seeing people who try games have a bad experience and head back to the console.

This could be a chicken/egg first arguements. Do most gamers have dicrete graphics cause they want them or do most people who dont get them just not become gamers for PCs?

Anyhow this is only good the more power integrated the better especially with hybrid technologies coming online and better performance with SLI/Crosfire.


RE: Gamers
By sotti on 10/20/2008 1:50:07 PM , Rating: 2
These are actually great for real gamers...

The reason is that if these platforms are the bare must run on platforms, it enables them to do much more for the highend cards. When you have to be able to play a game on a 945g, it's very limiting to what the developers can do on the high end.

So better integrated graphics is a win for highend gamers because it will allow developers to make better games.

Also it will be sweet for the gamer that wants an HTPC that can also play a couple maps of TF2.


RE: Gamers
By kyleb2112 on 10/21/2008 5:10:26 PM , Rating: 2
But what do you do when the shader model used in games ticks up a notch? Throw out your motherboard? I like being able to keep up with games just by popping in a mid range card once a year--a little more convenient than rebuilding the whole system.


RE: Gamers
By MagnumMan on 10/20/2008 1:50:26 PM , Rating: 1
It only says that it is capable of playing the latest high-end games. It doesn't say how well. I use 3x Radeon HD 3870 water cooled at 1000MHz GPU speed with CrossFireX and it plays Bioshock on a 2560x1600 screen beautifully. I assume the same setup would crawl with a built-in solution, but that's not the target market for integrated graphics is it...


RE: Gamers
By jmunjr on 10/20/2008 3:11:43 PM , Rating: 2
Well no sh*t.. Do you really expect a mainstream system to perform at a level that perhaps less than .001% of all PCs in the world perform at(like yours)? Come on, the fact that an integrated graphics mobo can play most games good enough so that a good gamer can still perform well is a great thing.

Perhaps you are afraid you'll get dominated by someone running a system with integrated graphics?


RE: Gamers
By quiksilvr on 10/20/2008 1:50:31 PM , Rating: 2
It may not be for gamers but its more than enough for HD entertainment. Blu ray, HD shows and even Call of Duty 4 at medium settings and 1280x800 runs a-ok. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if Crysis: Warhead ran on it with reasonable settings.


RE: Gamers
By dickeywang on 10/20/2008 2:35:56 PM , Rating: 2
Well, I guess at least there are many laptop users are playing games with IGP. I recently tried Warcraft3 on a Core2Duo laptop with Intel X3100 IGP, and it works reasonably well. But I think you're right, not many desktop gamers would use IGP to play games.


RE: Gamers
By Chernobyl68 on 10/20/2008 6:58:54 PM , Rating: 2
I think the real handicap to today's integrated graphics is probably memory. Sharing with the system will always be worse than discrete memory on the graphics card, no matter how good the chip is.


RE: Gamers
By jonmcc33 on 10/20/2008 8:58:59 PM , Rating: 2
If it's as good as my Radeon X1900XT is right now then I'll go ahead and can my video card for a new motherboard.


RE: Gamers
By FITCamaro on 10/21/2008 8:40:21 AM , Rating: 2
I'm playing FFVII through a PS emulator on my laptop atm.


RE: Gamers
By superkdogg on 10/21/2008 1:13:38 PM , Rating: 2
For a while, I played EVE Online on a laptop with Radeon 200m graphics. Not the discreet version either.

My current laptop has GFG 7600 discreet chip and at least plays most games. Plays some of the less demanding games pretty well, and even newer games will work if you turn down some settings. It does almost everything I need and it will perform at a level somewhat like the new motherboards in question.

Something that's fundamental to this discussion is that these motherboards are not ever going to replace a discreet card for newer games and/or better settings. They do offer (probably for the first time) an integrated solution that will allow for gaming that some people will find acceptable. That in and of itself is progress. Hopefully the idea takes hold.


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