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NVIDIA GeForce 9600GT Specifications

NVIDIA GeForce 9600GT Game Performance - Single Card vs SLI
GeForce 9-series to bring G94 to the market

Exactly one month ago NVIDIA leaked GeForce 9600 GT benchmarks with very attractive results. The G94-based graphics card gave the current high-end GeForce 8-series cards and AMD's HD3800-series a run for the money using beta drivers coming short in only a few benchmarks.

Though the 9600 GT will be the mid-range card in the D9x graphics family, with such impressive performance over the previous generation, many have already proclaimed the G94 the pinnacle of price-performance in the series.

Tomorrow NVIDIA will officially launch the 9600GT and the cost will attract the masses. Between $169 and 189 the 9600GT will compete with the 8800 GT in performance but the newcomer adds a number of new features from an architecture standpoint.

The 9600 GT's stock configuration will be a core clocked at 650MHz with a shader clock speed of 1625 MHz and 512MB of 1800 MHz memory. Utilizing a 256-bit bus, the reference 9600 GT is able to pump data through its veins at 57.6 GB/sec. These numbers are subject to change, of course, depending on the manufacturer of the card and what memory is used since NVIDIA only designs the reference cards. Additionally, the 9600GT's G94 processor features 64 unified stream processors, twice the number found on the last generation 8600GT.

The card will require a 6-pin power connector and will consume around 95W of power in a single-card setup. The reference design had a single slot design but third party card manufacturers may decide to throw in some extra cooling hardware in their designs for extra heat dissipation since there are reports that the G94 runs hot under the single slot heat sink fan solution.

The reference board will also feature two dual-link DVI outputs and a single multi-out video connector for output to a high-definition TV.

As far as performance goes, NVIDIA claims a couple 9600 GT's in SLI mode will perform slightly better than a single 8800 GTX. With the cost of an 8800 GTX still above the $400 price point, the 9600 GT SLI setup is a better investment. Just to mention it, NVIDIA states the 9600 GT puts out twice the frame rates as the 8600GTS when comparing SLI performance.

AMD announced price cuts on its high-end offerings today.  The Radeon HD 3870, which was priced at $249, has dropped to $189 while the HD  3850 dropped $30 from its original $199 price point to a down to earth $169 to better compete with the GeForce 9600 GT.

Initial benchmarks claim the GeForce 9600 GT is extremely competitive with the AMD Radeon HD 3850. Overclocked versions of the GeForce 9600 GT barely edge out AMD's highest offerings with current drivers.


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Silly nVidia fanboys
By RogueLegend on 2/21/08, Rating: 0
RE: Silly nVidia fanboys
By RogueLegend on 2/21/08, Rating: 0
RE: Silly nVidia fanboys
By ocyl on 2/21/08, Rating: 0
RE: Silly nVidia fanboys
By sandalsocks on 2/21/08, Rating: -1
RE: Silly nVidia fanboys
By sandalsocks on 2/21/08, Rating: -1
RE: Silly nVidia fanboys
By JSK on 2/21/2008 5:11:27 AM , Rating: 2
"NVIDIA claims a couple 9600 GT's in SLI mode will perform slightly better than a single 8800 GTX"

I think you need to reread the article...

The card does NOT compete with the 8800GTX, though two of them do.


RE: Silly nVidia fanboys
By DingieM on 2/21/2008 9:19:53 AM , Rating: 3
Its the other way around, ATI trumps nVidia this time around with the HD38xx series, and certainly on the price/performance ratio. Because ATI can even lower the prices due to much better manufaturing (yes they exceeded nVidia).

Do mind that with the bug-laden R600, ATI was half a year behind nVidia. Now ATI is supreme on the mainstream segment regarding price/performance AND especially features. They really learned from their mistakes.

With this 9600GT, nVidia is way later to market and compared to ATI that was earlier to market with their HD38xx, the gap has close CONSIDERABLY.

Now watch out the upcoming RV7xx generation of ATI, they certainly may arrive earlier than expected, that will OBLITERATE the 9600GT and beyond generation of nVidia.

And there is the dual-chip/card solution where ATI has a way better card than nVidia on the price/performance ratio. nVidia has many problems with 65nm overheating chips.
I expect the dual-chip/card solution to be 10% faster (at least) than the HD3870 X2, but it will be much much more expensive than the ATI offering.
But than again, nVidia is way behind ATI regarding Corssfire X solutions and implementation.
ATI already demonstrated 2 HD3870 X2's QUAD CROSSFIRE that showed COD4 on 2650x1600 4xAA and 100FPS. Beta drivers.

If you objectively identify the market situation and the future, ATI is getting way better than nVidia.
Period.


RE: Silly nVidia fanboys
By Mitch101 on 2/21/2008 10:19:10 AM , Rating: 2
The rumors are R700 is taped out and runs excellent but drivers need a few more tweeks. You wont hear anything about its performance because they don't want to jeopardize the R600 line which is selling very well for AMD/ATI. if R700 runs as cool as its rumored to do and performance is as again rumored then ATI will gain the performance crown but probably more importantly will have a much cooler running product than NVIDIA the next time around.

The graphics division is pretty much keeping AMD alive until they can get K10.5/45nm rolling out the door. Which again rumor has it K10.5 reaches 3ghz without a problem. Rev 3 65nm K10 is rumored to only go to 2.6ghz which isnt enough.

Overclocks not remotely considered at this time.

NVIDIA is supposedly having some heat issues and a possible bug in the chip but will drop the prices of the 8800 lineup to compete with AMD as they have a slight performance edge over the 3800 series. Maybe a 3 month delay? No biggie its about time they had a hiccup but its not the end of the world because were talking about the $350+ price ranges for NVIDIA/ATI products which is not the sweet spot for graphics sales. NVIDIA will soon grab a healthy chunk of the cell phone market when the iPhone killer is released.


RE: Silly nVidia fanboys
By Serafina on 2/21/2008 11:12:25 AM , Rating: 1
ATI was ahead with their midrange card because they're high end card sucked.

Nvidia's 8800 card destroyed any high end card ATI had so all they could do was focus on mid range. Ati couldn't compete at high range.

Nvidia didn't care if they came out with something that beated the HD3870 because all their cards were destroying ati's cards and people weren't buying ati cards.


RE: Silly nVidia fanboys
By Mitch101 on 2/21/2008 3:24:46 PM , Rating: 3
What?

ATI 38XX series has been selling like mad and so has the Nvidia 8800 series. The difference is that ATI has been able to churn out more chips than NVIDIA. Expect sales of both to be very high but ATI at an advantage of being able to deliver parts.

I can only name one game the NVIDIA card can play at 1680x1050 at decent frame rates that the ATI card would struggle with. Drop the resolution on the one game and the Radeon 38XX series does fine. I hardly call this a loss. The only advantage the NVIDIA has over ATI is better FSAA performance. Those who don't use FSAA because they play at high resolution don't care.

DX10.1 while not important is a future proof item that ATI has the NVIDIA doesn't. Anyone remember the stink NVIDIA kicked about smartshader 3.0 and if you didnt have it your card sucked. Dont let marketing overblow this stuff but that .1 is a nice no worry bonus about future proofing a product should game developers take advantage of it.

This leaves HEAT and NOISE as a factor. Where there is HEAT there is noise. ATI chips are running a lot cooler than their NVIDIA counter parts. Oh an Power ATI runs with less power requirements meaning you dont need to upgrade that power supply.

Quit worrying about ATI/NVIDIA and start worrying about when Intel finally gets graphics right because the reputation between NVIDIA and Intel is on worse than thin ICE and Intel has it out for NVIDIA.


RE: Silly nVidia fanboys
By RogueLegend on 2/21/2008 1:22:48 PM , Rating: 1
nVidia has a history of releasing its high end first. Back when they in the 4000 series, and no one else had anything close (ATi was only JUST beginning to take the graphics market seriously) they kept besting themselves by releasing the Titanium series, and various higher clock/memory in spite of nothing coming close.

It's the way nVidia's marketing works even when they have had direct competition from ATi. There are three reasons for this:

a) They wow people with the super-high performance of their chip.

b) If they release earlier, they get advantage over the market, are able to lower prices faster

c) By releasing the high end first, if the competitions high end does win out in benchmarks, nVidia will have already sold their chips off to the early adopters, scoring some sales even if they lose the benchmarks race.

d) The sooner you release the high end (usually without the mid range in place) you can often earn design wins with OEMS. Again, this garners the maximum returns for your initial investment.

This makes more business sense than trying to trump the competition in benchmarks. Chips become cheaper over time, but usually only after initial sales. The longer they hold off on releasing the chip, the less return on investment they get, leading to higher prices for longer to make returns on investment costs. Manufacturing costs don't go down unless you order on volume and repeatedly, and you don't get better yeilds unless you keep manufacturing and working out the kinks in the manufacturing process. This also leads to lower costs and return on investment.

This is why nVidia has always realeased the high end first, and has always tried to release ahead of the competition; then trickle the technology down to mid/low ranges. They need to try to make as much money back on their investment as soon as possible.


RE: Silly nVidia fanboys
By RogueLegend on 2/21/2008 1:28:05 PM , Rating: 2
LOL, it seems I can't type straight- was up late working. those were 4 reason I gave, and I would go thru and edit all my gramatical errors, but I think you all got my meaning.


RE: Silly nVidia fanboys
By theprodigalrebel on 2/21/2008 5:22:20 AM , Rating: 2
Just about every 8-series card that I see on Newegg is HDCP-compliant. I also see 8800GTs from Zotac with HDMI output and a user review claims it has audio-out.

Have you seen the review on Tweaktown? The 9600GT has stunning performance for its MSRP. They have tweaked the core and this card - with 64 SPs - performs close to the 112SPs-equipped 8800GT. They are improving their lineup and the big kahuna is rumored to drop in late March.

Your argument has set sail for fail.


RE: Silly nVidia fanboys
By RogueLegend on 2/21/2008 4:15:30 PM , Rating: 1
Firstly, if it supports HDCP compliance is meaningless unless you have an actual HDMI port- which makes me wonder what HDCP compliant actually means. Most of the cards use either S-Video, or a component breakout, but again, no actual HDMI in most of the cards.

And again, given nVidia's strong, consistent history of releasing high end cards first, then mid grade cards (believe me, when you invest so much in R&D, you want to put your best, most expnsive card out first to make a return on your investment) one wonders why they didn't do it this time, especially with the midgrade out. There's no real benefit to getting out your middle of the line offering other than just trying to beat the competition to market. They put their most effort and focus in developing the high end, as the midgrade and low end cards don't need to be refined as much. So why nVidia didn't do it this time is great question.


RE: Silly nVidia fanboys
By Ajax9000 on 2/21/2008 7:00:56 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Firstly, if it supports HDCP compliance is meaningless unless you have an actual HDMI port- which makes me wonder what HDCP compliant actually means. Most of the cards use either S-Video, or a component breakout, but again, no actual HDMI in most of the cards.

Not correct.

The DVI connection can act as an HDMI connection and carry audio AND be HDCP compliant.

Cards that are designed to do audio over DVI with HDCP include:

Asus EN8600GT/HTDI/256M http://www.asus.com.tw/products.aspx?l1=2&l2=6&l3=...

Zotac GeForce 8600 GT ZONE http://zotac.com/index.php?option=com_content&task...

There are Sparkle and Galaxy 8800GTs that do DVI audio too but I can't remember the links at the moment.

Newer ATI/AMD cards also do audio over DVI with HDCP, but ATI/AMD seems to have (quite unnecessarily) fiddled around with the standrds to do so.

(For some technical explanations see my [H] post here:- http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?p=10316508... )


RE: Silly nVidia fanboys
By Ronin on 2/21/2008 8:13:17 PM , Rating: 2
The simple answer to this is there's no reason to. ATI has no competition right now for the high end component, so why put it out there? Midrange is ultimately where the market is, and NVIDIA knows this (so does ATI). It makes more sense financially to release the midrange card, as there's no real new technology within it, like a massive change from the 7 to the 8 series.

You're treating this like a nexgen launch, where they would typically provide that high end part first. That's not what this is.


RE: Silly nVidia fanboys
By RogueLegend on 2/22/2008 3:08:38 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
You're treating this like a nexgen launch,


Actually, that's part of what this is, the whole 9xxx nomenclature is an indication of generation. I'm not the only one who seems to think so:

quote:
The first surprise is that this new generation of cards is not being introduced at the high end, as has always been the case, but rather the midrange, mainstream price point. In reality, there's a very simple explanation for this phenomenon: the architecture behind this card is the same as that introduced on the GeForce 8, and hardly improved with the arrival of the midrange versions (the 8600 GT, then the 8800 GT, as has been Nvidia's custom since the GeForce 6 series).

http://www.tomshardware.com/2008/02/21/nvidia_gefo...

Further, the 9800 is supposed to be based on a new chip. Effectively, what nVidia's marketing is trying to do is convince people (through naming conventions) that they're introducing new technology with the 9600 (new gen, new tech) without actually releasing the new tech (the 9800).

It's not me who's treating this as a "nexgen" launch. It's nVidia.

And ATi does have competition on the high end- or did you miss the 3800 X2's?

Here's the real problem. ATi has an edge over nVidia in terms of manufacturing process (which TomsHardware talks about and analyzes). ATi has potential to be more profitable at its midrange than nVidia. The truth about the 9600 is that it's a respun, cut down version of the technology found in the 8000 series, with a much higher clock speed. In doing this, they cut the size of the die they manufacture, increasing profitability (only if the yeilds hold up).

I'm not denying that the performance of this part looks good, and is competitive. But right now, it seems as if this part is aimed at increasing nVidia's profitability at the midrange and at the same time, convince people that it's a new generation of technology. There's no other reason to give it a 9xxx name. Otherwise, it would be just another 8xxx part.

And it makes NO sense to release the midrange card first. You risk losing customers who might otherwise have bought the high end (at higher prices, I might add) to your own midrange offerings.

If it makes sense financially to release the midrange first, then why has nVidia in the past ALWAYS released the high end first? It makes more sense from a strategic/marketing point of view to release your high end first. You gain more mindshare and a market advantage with the high end out first. nVidia knows this is more important and this is why they always do the high end first.


RE: Silly nVidia fanboys
By ThePooBurner on 2/21/08, Rating: -1
RE: Silly nVidia fanboys
By eye smite on 2/21/2008 9:32:50 AM , Rating: 4
You guys can squabble all you want. To me it means prices will come down more. I'm actually entertaining the idea of replacing this X700 pro 256mb card now. :-) I've got my moneys worth out of it for certain. hehe


Maybe in Bizarroworld...
By 7Enigma on 2/21/2008 7:18:48 AM , Rating: 3
"As far as performance goes, NVIDIA claims a couple 9600 GT's in SLI mode will perform slightly better than a single 8800 GTX. With the cost of an 8800 GTX still above the $400 price point, the 9600 GT SLI setup is a better investment. Just to mention it, NVIDIA states the 9600 GT puts out twice the frame rates as the 8600GTS when comparing SLI performance."

Better investment? For whom....Nvidia or the consumer? I'm having a tough time figuring out if this whole paragraph is from Nvidia, or whether the author's opinion is responsible for the second sentence. The problem with this statement is that the GT's in SLI will only perform better IF the game supports it properly. Even ATI's latest card which does "SLI" better than all previous cards in terms of usability didn't work in all games. True SLI still is not supported properly in a good number of games and so I'd easily still stick with the single GTX, but it would be prudent to wait a couple weeks for the higher end card to ship since it will easily outpace the GTX (it has to right?).




RE: Maybe in Bizarroworld...
By darkpaw on 2/21/2008 8:58:00 AM , Rating: 5
Not to mention, SLI mode still has the huge flaw of NO DUAL MONITOR SUPPORT.

I have an SLI setup, but its off 95% of the time because its too much of a hassel to have to close just about everything to change between SLI/standard mode.


RE: Maybe in Bizarroworld...
By dever on 2/21/2008 2:41:49 PM , Rating: 2
Also, how long would it take for the increase of power consumption to eat away at the paltry savings between the two? (I'm guessing here that the SLI solution would consume more power. Please correct me if I'm confused or delirious.)


RE: Maybe in Bizarroworld...
By sgtdisturbed47 on 2/21/2008 5:12:37 PM , Rating: 3
A single-card solution is always better than SLi. The problem with SLi is the fact that it requires a lot of power, creates a lot of heat, costs 2x as much for a 20% increase (if the game supports SLi properly), and it takes up more room in the tower. There really isn't an upside to SLI. If the performance was actually 2x that of a single card, maybe it would be a good option but right now, that's just not possible, and don't get me started on the even sillier Tri SLi...

Different games require different processing requirements. Some require raw overall power, like Crysis and Call of Juarez, and other are more reliant on shader processing, like Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare. The 8800GTX is still an excellent option for today's games, since it has great overall processing power, so running games at super high-resolution is best done on a GTX rather than 2 8800GTs or 2 9600GTs. The 8800GTX is still the flagship, and will remain so until the 9800GTX and GX2 are released. In reality, comparing the next-gen mid-range to today's flagship is silly. The only way it will come close or occasionally beat the GTX is by using 2 in SLi, and as I said and what is apparent, SLi is a silly investment.

A gamer's best bet is to wait until the next flagship arrives, and if you recently bought an eVGA 8800GTS 512 (which by itself comes mighty close to the performance of the GTX), you can use the step-up program when the 9800GTX or 9800GX2 is released, whichever you want. You get a single card with excellent performance, with enough raw power to smash your way through today's high-end game and tomorrow's.


RE: Maybe in Bizarroworld...
By PitViper007 on 2/26/2008 1:14:39 PM , Rating: 2
Actually, I did just get the eVGA 8800GTS 512 (G92 series) and I have to say that I'm impressed. I was all set to wait for the 9600GT but I'm glad I didn't now. I didn't know about the step up program. I'll have to look into that and decide when the cards come out if I want to do it or not.


9800
By i4mt3hwin on 2/20/2008 11:06:55 PM , Rating: 1
Specs plz, I want.




RE: 9800
By dflynchimp on 2/20/2008 11:23:07 PM , Rating: 4
silly person, specs are for kids

benchmarks are what we educated computer nerds want. Ohhhhh benchies!!!


RE: 9800
By xsilver on 2/21/2008 1:09:40 AM , Rating: 4
I think the holy grail for computer nerds are not benchies but "hot" girls! =P


RE: 9800
By Alexstarfire on 2/21/08, Rating: -1
RE: 9800
By xsilver on 2/21/2008 2:02:12 AM , Rating: 5
Well what version do you have?
Everybody could always use an upgrade? =P

or maybe just a software upgrade? [insert dirty joke here]


RE: 9800
By Alexstarfire on 2/21/08, Rating: -1
RE: 9800
By xsilver on 2/21/2008 3:24:10 AM , Rating: 1
No problems! you must be brad pitt or tom brady then considering you have the latest and greatest! =P. (I was having a little bit of fun anyways, maybe at your expense.)


RE: 9800
By FITCamaro on 2/21/08, Rating: -1
RE: 9800
By dflynchimp on 2/21/2008 3:20:48 AM , Rating: 2
indeed, but said hot girls require maintenance, time and money, the same ingredients that fuel a healthy geekasm of the computer. They also tend to consider our fawning over core temps, low overclocks and 3Dmarks the same as cheating on them...or maybe it's just neglect...

this comes to mind: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cbU1EBYh0ZQ


Been waiting for this...
By marsbound2024 on 2/20/2008 11:59:23 PM , Rating: 2
I have been anxious to see the launch of the GeForce 9 series for some months now. The 8 series was good and all, but I believe it will take the 9 series to really let DirectX 10 stretch its legs. The 8 series just didn't handle powerful games as well as I had hoped. Maybe now once the enthusiast cards in this series come out, we can start to relax a little without hyperventilating on SLI and triple SLI (even if it is not a huge deal better than regular dual SLI). Besides, for mainstream/performance users like myself who don't or can't spend over $800 on SLI 8800GTXs just to play Crysis at some of its highest settings, we need a single-card solution (or cheap SLI solution) that can deliver adequately.

I have been rather put off at the prospect of having to spend several hundred dollars to upgrade my rig (or buy a new one really) just so I can play a $45-$50 game. Nonetheless, I may just batten down the hatches until Nehalem comes out and stick with a few upgrades to my existing 939 system.




physix
By donttrustme on 2/21/08, Rating: 0
RE: physix
By imaheadcase on 2/21/2008 2:08:05 AM , Rating: 2
They have actually said they are going add them to current 8x series of card in software form since it is pretty much easy to include in drivers for some nice increases in certain games.

Was not clear if they mean "newer" 8x series, or older ones as well though. But since they are basically they same with difference clocks I would suspect all.


Anand review
By dm0r on 2/21/2008 7:29:07 AM , Rating: 2
So when you guys from anand will release the review of the card? Thanks




ooops
By brdah on 2/21/2008 10:31:24 AM , Rating: 2
I saw this on the shelf at the local Best Buy last Friday (2/15/08). Seems like they had it out




....
By brdah on 2/21/2008 10:34:01 AM , Rating: 2
..a bit early. Apparently, I like to post before I finish typing.




Actual Sales
By WalkingTarget on 2/21/2008 12:05:54 PM , Rating: 2
To be perfectly honest whoever has the current high end card doesnt matter too much the OEM sales are typically more important, Who would you rather be selling grahpic's cards to large OEM manufacturer's such as Dell, Hp, etc or a smaller user base of gamers?

HD 3850/3870 were really announced as mid range card's the HD 3870x2 is what they refer to as the current High end card from ATI, the 8800 GTS and 8800GTX also fall into the High end card so a comparison between them and the 3850/3870 isnt fair on those cards.

The implementation of crossfire seems quite well done especially as you can do a software version with even the old range of x1900/x1950's (apart from the x1950' pros) without requiring a external connector, perhaps 5/10% performance hit tho.

I had an x700 256mb in AGP bus for a long time, it is quite a good card and still performs well in medium detail in game s up to quake4, shame its lacking sm3 support.

I have had the last gen x1900xtx and to be perfectly honest even on a 24inch TFT it can perform quite well, although I do know own a 8800 GTS 512 and it performs a lot better under the same games, I havent actually had chance to use a HD3850 so I only have the old x1900 card as a comparision.

Finally I want to see the proper benchmarks before I would consider any card, that graph could be only covering ranges with a difference of between 10 to 20fps, just the scaling makes it seem larger than it is.




Newegg prices
By Shark Tek on 2/21/2008 12:55:22 PM , Rating: 2
At least it have a pretty accessible price on Newegg as low as 179.99. This is the card that I was waiting for.

On http://www.firingsquad.com/ they have a performance preview with benchmarks, sometimes is very close to the G92 8800GT.

This is the best bang for the buck for now.




ATI 3850
By Fynx Gloire on 2/23/2008 12:58:07 AM , Rating: 2
Nvidia never would have released this card if it were not for ATI / AMD's 3850.
Give credit where its due!




ATI sucks now, Nvidia is way better
By IntelGirl on 2/20/08, Rating: -1
RE: ATI sucks now, Nvidia is way better
By kondor999 on 2/20/08, Rating: -1
By mooncancook on 2/21/2008 12:12:21 AM , Rating: 3
Shut up Intel fanboi... or fan girl. Enjoy your Intel Extreme graphics and leave AMD and nVidia alone.


By Bigjee on 2/21/2008 12:50:37 AM , Rating: 2
Actually its the opposite. With the 3870X2 from Ati , Nvidia is NOT on top of the 'mountain'
What Nvidia lacks right now is a high end card (The GTX is aging with a G80 core)


Wow awesome
By IntelGirl on 2/20/08, Rating: -1
RE: Wow awesome
By just4U on 2/21/2008 2:47:28 AM , Rating: 3
I don't know about the "take that ATI!" Part. The thing to realize here is both companies released wickedly popular cards the past 4 months. Their all REALLY REALLY good in their price ranges.

While ATI didnt release a 9600GT today they did lower that 3870 to 189 and you know what? That's just a amazing deal. I own a 3870 and a GTS512. I've also Briefly owned a 3850 and worked with several GT's... and that's going to be a bit of a kicker for Nvidia.

Regardless, I cheer on both companies right now for the incredibly value they've put into their recent products. Many of us were extremely disapointed with this past summers mid range lineup and they really made up for it and you know what?

It shows because both companies cards are flying off the shelves. That's what they get when they do good! Hope they keep it up!! If your stuck in video hardware that's 2+ years old... It's a great time to buy a new one.


ATI Who?
By Cheeseburger4584 on 2/21/08, Rating: -1
RE: ATI Who?
By Goty on 2/21/2008 12:23:32 AM , Rating: 5
Ummm... where have you been for the past 6 or 7 years? The 8500, 9700/9800 and X1900 cards were all very competitive with NVIDIA's offerings, often offering the best performance overall for that generation of cards.

Also, which company was it that couldn't get working DX10 drivers for almost three months after the release of Vista after ranting on about "full DX10 capabilities" for almost half a year previously as well as not being ale to offer competitive performance at all under Vista? Oh yeah, not ATI.


RE: ATI Who?
By Cheeseburger4584 on 2/21/08, Rating: -1
RE: ATI Who?
By Goty on 2/21/2008 12:52:20 AM , Rating: 5
Yeah, Vista, which NVIDIA touted to no end. Sure, NVIDIA is doing well, no doubt. They've got some good cards out there based on a good architecture and they're doing pretty well for themselves right now.

When you ask me if I've noticed how many games use "NVIDIA's technology", what technology would that be exactly? What can NVIDIA's hardware do in any game out there that ATI's can't? Also, where is this NVIDIA-specific version of portal? I've never heard of it.


RE: ATI Who?
By StevoLincolnite on 2/21/2008 1:30:54 AM , Rating: 1
Well don't forget about the Tessellation Engine that ATI has implemented into the Radeon GPU's, what this piece of technology does is allow for huge landscape's while only using a few Polygons.
Plus ATI still have the fastest card out at the moment, and that is the 3870 X2, which actually pummels the 8800GT and thus the 9600GT.
Not to mention tht RV770 is projected to be released in June, things are looking up for ATI, and with the sudden price drops from ATI, things are looking up for us consumers looking for a good price/performance part!
And you can't forget that Crossfire is also more efficient than nVidia's SLI technology, and more versatile, you can pair-up any 3870 X2 with any 3870 or 3850 card., Thus You could have a combination of a 3870 and a 3850 which actually still gives some nice results.

And Drivers aren't that bad, at least they are still releasing AGP parts, and continuing support for AGP users.
Personally I love the ATI Omega Drivers.


RE: ATI Who?
By Alexstarfire on 2/21/2008 2:01:50 AM , Rating: 2
I would beg to differ on some of those. While the 3870x2 may be the fastest single card, it's got two GPUs on it with built-in crossfire. To me that's like saying the 7950 GX2 was a single card. Granted the 3870x2 is actually on one PCB, unlike the 7950 gx2.

Anyways, if anything I've heard about micro-stuttering is true then dual card solutions aren't the way to go anyways. Though I can say that I never got my questions answered about that. Cause they only mentioned SLI and AFR rendering if I remember correctly. So I never heard anything about Crossfire or other types of rendering. Perhaps someone here could tell me more about it.


RE: ATI Who?
By StevoLincolnite on 2/21/2008 9:37:13 AM , Rating: 2
To the end user it doesn't matter if it has to "GPU's" on the one PCB, You don't have to muck around with any Crossfire settings, it just works, It -is- the fastest Single card solution out there, I for one couldn't care if it used 100 GPU's to get the job done, fast is fast.

I owned the 7950GX2 and I can tell you now the drivers and "Ease of use" is no where near the 3870 X2 in that department.

And Micro Stuttering? I haven't ever run into that kind of issue before, so I cannot really comment on it, Despite owning the 7950GX2 and several different Radeon Crossfire configurations.


RE: ATI Who?
By je530 on 2/21/2008 1:09:19 AM , Rating: 5
Fucking moron


RE: ATI Who?
By Cheeseburger4584 on 2/21/08, Rating: -1
RE: ATI Who?
By Goty on 2/21/2008 1:46:58 AM , Rating: 2
I fail to see how I'm biased, I'm merely pointing out how arrogant you are and how erroneous your statements are. If you care to actually read my posts, I complimented NVIDIA on the G8x and G9x architecture. It's a great architecture and NVIDIA planned it out very well.

As for Portal: First Slice, it's a demo. That's it, a demo. There's nothing special about it. If I wanted to use your reasoning, I could just bring up the vouchers that have been included with the past two or three generations of ATI cards for HL2 and the Orange Box. I guess those don't count, though.

As for biased reasoning, let's take a look at one of your statements:

quote:
Just face it ATI, you are always going to be in the shadows of a true graphics technology company. I find it very funny how ATI always develops these supposedly high end graphics cards that end up being held back by horrible drivers. Need I say more, nope didnt think so.


Nah, that's not biased at all.

So, here's what you can do, Cheese: You can keep ranting on however you like and keep on enjoying your falling post rating, and I'm going to go have mature discussions with the other members on the message boards.

Have fun!


RE: ATI Who?
By Alexstarfire on 2/21/2008 2:13:13 AM , Rating: 2
Uhhh, I think you looked at the wrong post or something because I don't think either one of them were talking about you.


RE: ATI Who?
By Cheeseburger4584 on 2/21/08, Rating: -1
RE: ATI Who?
By JS on 2/21/2008 8:16:21 AM , Rating: 5
The product (or its manufacturer) doesn't get any better or worse just because you happened to buy it. Getting all upset about defending a product just because you bought it sounds like self-confidence issues to me. Or perhaps you are just a very emotional young man.


RE: ATI Who?
By antas on 2/21/2008 3:18:11 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
And have you notice ATI fanboy how games like crysis,ut3, company of hereos,etc, nvidia cards generally have higher fps than ati does.


Cmon cheese, tell me, are you playing on 1900+ resolutions? Well, I don't :) If you do, please disregards my comment below.

I'm playing on 1440 resolutions using single ATI HD3870 512MB , and I can tell you that I can play all the games you mentioned smoothly ... S M O O T H L Y :) It seems that below 1900 resolutions, the difference is not too much.

And yes, I never tried to play those game with equivalent NVIDIA's GPU (8800GT/GTS or whatever), so I can not say whether your statement is correct or not. But to me what matter the most is the actual performance and the cards availability on the market. When I was looking for a graphic cards I was only able to find ATI available on the market, thats' why I went for it. And it seems a good choice since I'm able to play any games I want without a problem, nothing to complains.

I don't care if NVIDIA's really outperform my ATI's as long as I'm still able to play with latest game nicely :) And for me it seems that currently ATI can keep up well with NVIDIA despite some awful experienced before 2900 series *sigh. To be honest I'm raising my thumbs up for NVIDIA for maintaining their feet against other competitors (read: AMD & INTEL). Especially with their 8800 series they are really doing well. But what about the future? We'll see :)


RE: ATI Who?
By just4U on 2/21/2008 3:50:29 AM , Rating: 5
It's interesting that you should mention resolutions. During the "GT" shortage I purchased a 3850 for my new system. (the old one had a 8800GTS 640) and I really expected little from it. Just figured ah .. it's in I will give it a shot.. (was a temporary purchase that I already had a home for)

I was really ticked off! Why?? Because I couldn't notice a damn bit of difference between it and my 400+ dream card. I only gamed at 1280/1024 and at those resolutions All these cards are GOOD. Just depends on what your price range is.

People don't realize just how good certain cards are till they use them for themselves. I went into that purchase with extremely low expectations and was very impressed! Still am.. infact. There are "NO" night and day performance differences just marginal performance boosts as you move up the price tree.


RE: ATI Who?
By bunga28 on 2/21/08, Rating: -1
RE: ATI Who?
By 7Enigma on 2/21/2008 8:28:32 AM , Rating: 2
At your stated resolution yes, not at higher resolutions. Step up to a 20" or 24" monitor and its a whole different world. Then you would see quite a difference between your 3850 and 8800GTS. But you should have known that before buying the 8800GTS just by looking at some Anandtech reviews with resolution scaling.

Now I have a 19" LCD and will be waiting for the new 9800X gpu before building a new computer. I have no doubt it will be overkill at 1280X1024 resolution for the near future, but by early 09 I'm willing to bet maxxing out settings will still be difficult even at that res....its the nature of the beast.


RE: ATI Who?
By DingieM on 2/21/2008 9:27:06 AM , Rating: 2
HD3870 X2 will be a much better deal, no doubt about it, unless you only want nVidia cards...

Don't expect anything spectacular from a 9800X2 thing, it will be a damn heat and power hungry monster and will be utterly overpriced.

Your choice :-)


RE: ATI Who?
By bfellow on 2/21/2008 10:49:44 AM , Rating: 2
9800GX2 is going to be price around $450 how is that "overpriced" when the 3870X2 has same exact MSRP when it first came out?


RE: ATI Who?
By 7Enigma on 2/21/2008 12:00:37 PM , Rating: 2
I'm not talking about the X2. I had 9800X as in the 9800 models to come out including all of their subgroups. I'm particularly looking for the SINGLE-chip version which is to come out after the X2.


RE: ATI Who?
By Ronin on 2/21/2008 1:22:52 PM , Rating: 2
The lack of proper comparisons here is flabbergasting, and the misinformation even more so (and then there's the rumor mill, which is laffable, at best).

Let's start with the R700 power consumption and heat. Since the X850, ATI has been able to provide a suitable cooling solution for their higher end cards without going 'FlowFX' and causing major ear damage across the world (for those that don't understand sarcasm, that means the high end cooling solutions are loud...very loud, when under load). I find it highly unlikely based on track record and poor results that ATI has magically fixed this thorn in their side. Even the R670's have whiny coolers. *shrugs*

Someone mentioned that 2x 3870 is the performance king. I'm not sure how in anyone's right mind that makes sense, but you should reevaluate some and get your facts straight (even if you're talking performance for the money). In addition, the price cuts for the 3870's aren't a blow to NVIDIA at all. It's a testament to the losses that are being generated @ ATI, and how they need to go back to basics to get back into the game. NVIDIA still has a strangehold on the midrange market (we could just talk about Dell alone). In order to remain competitive, ATI needs to stop getting beat to the punch by months at a time, and need to remember what made them successful.

Why is it so difficult to give props to NVIDIA when they continue to bring out low cost solutions that provide high end performance (the 88800 GT/GTS (G92 variant, obviously), and now the 9600? They're doing it right, and their profit margins are showing it (and so are my stocks. It should be noted that I have stock in both companies, and I'm taking a beating on the ATI side (AMD's current lack of success obviously weighs in here). With the procurement of Ageia, feature rich cards are going to continue to be released by NVIDIA, and they're going to continue to push the envelope. I can only hope that ATI follows suit.


RE: ATI Who?
By Goty on 2/21/2008 2:35:29 PM , Rating: 2
The 3870X2 does consistently outperform any single-card solution from NVIDIA (take a look at Anandtech's review, it's pretty nice).

You can make the argument that it's two GPUs on one PCB, but as long as it's transparent to the end-user, that shouldn't be much of a concern IMHO. NVIDIA is going to do the same thing with the 9800GX2, so we'll have to see if they can rectify the mistakes they made with the 7950GX2.


RE: ATI Who?
By Ronin on 2/21/2008 3:00:25 PM , Rating: 2
2 cards is 2 cards is 2 cards. X2 = GX2. Same thing. For the cost, it's not the best performance solution, and it's not a single card solution. This muddled thinking is what misleads people. Calling the X2 a single card solution is pure fiction.


RE: ATI Who?
By Goty on 2/21/2008 4:29:04 PM , Rating: 2
Card = PCB, as far as I'm concerned. If it fits in one slot and I can use another one with it in tandem, it's a single-card solution.


RE: ATI Who?
By Ronin on 2/21/2008 6:07:22 PM , Rating: 2
Then you're too blind to understand the difference, and your opinions are invalid. You cannot compare a dual solution (whether it's on the same PCB or not) to a single solution. It's apples to oranges, period.


RE: ATI Who?
By Goty on 2/21/2008 7:46:27 PM , Rating: 2
So I guess all of the benchmarks on the internet that include SLI/Crossfire configurations are complete drivel and nothing more than a waste of space on a hard drive somewhere, then?

Talk about being narrow-minded.


RE: ATI Who?
By Ronin on 2/21/2008 8:04:32 PM , Rating: 2
You don't seem to be able to understand the concept of what you're even talking about...kind of funny, though.

You cannot compare the x2 to a single GPU solution and say "It's the performance king!" when you're not comparing apples to apples. It's still 2 cards..don't care of it's on the same PCB or not.

Now who's narrow minded? It's a simple concept, really...if you're just trying to justify a purchase you made, I feel for you, mate.


RE: ATI Who?
By Goty on 2/21/2008 9:43:04 PM , Rating: 2
I think we're just seeing a bit of your bias show, but that's ok; it happens.


RE: ATI Who?
By Farfignewton on 2/22/2008 12:05:22 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
You cannot compare the x2 to a single GPU solution and say "It's the performance king!" when you're not comparing apples to apples. It's still 2 cards..don't care of it's on the same PCB or not


I KNEW all theses guys were wrong!!!


It has been far too long since AMD/ATI have been at the top of the performance charts; the crown had been lost on both CPU and GPU fronts, but today's Radeon HD 3870 X2 introduction begins to change that. The Radeon HD 3870 X2 is
the most elegant single-card, multi-GPU design we've seen to date and the performance is indeed higher than any competing single-card NVIDIA solution out today.


http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.aspx?i=3209&p=13

"This video card is exciting for AMD and it is exciting for gamers. We are talking about the new ATI Radeon HD 3870 X2 video card that puts two R670 GPUs onto one PCB and runs them transparently in a CrossFire configuration."

http://enthusiast.hardocp.com/article.html?art=MTQ...

With two Radeon 3870 GPUs working in unison on a single PCB, the X2 is, on average, the fastest single videocard that money can buy. Note that caveat, though: "on average": because this card relies on Crossfire drivers to get the job done, performance can be a little inconsistent, and there are a number of cases where the 3870 X2 will be outperformed by a single 8800 Ultra or even an 8800 GTX. The 3870 X2 also inherits the 3x00 series weakness in DirectX 10 applications.

http://www.tomshardware.com/2008/02/04/best_cards_...


Two GPUs, one card: A review of the ATI Radeon HD 3870 X2

http://arstechnica.com/reviews/hardware/ati-3870x2...


RE: ATI Who?
By 7Enigma on 2/22/2008 6:25:23 AM , Rating: 2
Ronin,

I can compare anything I want. I can compare an X2 to a 8800GTX, hell I can compare an ATI 9800Pro to the new Nvidia 9800 if I wanted to. It's the conclusions drawn from the comparison that matters. Your whining about the X2 is 2 "cards" is pointless. The primary comparison that should always be given #1 priority is the PERFORMANCE at that price point. Everything else is secondary (not speaking of niche usages such as HTPC/silent system, etc.).

If the X2 and 8800GTS are comparable in price then they are comparable products. It doesn't matter that one technically has 2 GPU's while the other has one.

I agree that you seem extremely biased against ATI/AMD. I just can't wait to see your posts when the 9800X2 comes out. If I catch you touting this product as the best/fastest single card solution we are going to call you on it!


RE: ATI Who?
By just4U on 2/21/2008 8:16:53 PM , Rating: 2
From what I understand from the reviews the X2 is somewhat better then a normal Crossfire setup. It shows performance gains accross a wide range of games, even moreso then what you'd normally expect. After all some games don't utilize SLI/CF. Am I super impressed with the 3870X2? Not particularily but then again I wasn't about Nvidia's dual card solution either.. And won't be with the 9800X2. <shrug>

Also, Ah .. what makes you think that Ati wasn't profitable? I am not talking about the amd part but Good lord.. Have you been paying attention the past few months? All these cards, GT GTS, 50 70 you name it they are going out by the boatloads. It's been a huge success for Nvidia AND ATI. Cutting prices would have happened regardless since all them were selling beyond their price point due to Demand.

I am not on the fense with either company right now.. Their both impressing the hell out of me thanks to their excellent price/performance lineup(s).


RE: ATI Who?
By 7Enigma on 2/22/2008 6:10:38 AM , Rating: 2
Ronin,

The problem is that since the X2 is seen by the PROGRAM as 1 card it is NOT the same as SLI/X-fire with 2 individual cards. Check out Anand's review of the latest 3870X2. It actually scales very well in most benchmarks, not because of the fantastic driver or game code, but because the software doesn't even know there are 2 individual chips on a single card.

My beef (the Bizzaroworld post) was that the author is claiming that 2 9600's in SLI is a better purchase than a single GTX or AMD equivalent. That is just not true since being separate cards you will run into the software issues mentioned above and will not get the excellent scaling.


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