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NVIDIA GeForce GTX 295  (Source: Guru3D)
NVIDIA's dual GPU GTX 295 video card said to launch at CES 2009

NVIDIA and ATI battle it out for graphics card performance bragging rights and for the last few months, the performance crown according to many sources has sat on the head of ATI. ATI's fantastic Radeon 4870 X2 was the king of the heap.

Unless ATI has something serious to pull out of its sleeve at CES 2009, the crown will go back to NVIDIA it seems. It's been rumored for a while now that NVIDIA will launch a new video card with dual GTX 200 GPUs at CES 2009 in a few weeks. Today those rumors become fact when NVIDIA allowed a few publications to publish an early preview of the GTX 295.

We now know that the GTX 295 will use dual 55nm GTX 200 GPUs and according to Guru 3D, the specs of the beastie are odd. The 295 has the same memory and core frequencies of a pair of GTX 260 GPUs, but the GPUs enjoy the same shader power of a pair of GTX 280 GPUs.

Total memory for the card is 1792MB, each GPU has 240 shaders, core frequency is 576MHz and shader frequency is 1242MHz. With that, much performance on tap power consumption might be a concern. Guru3D couldn’t provide any specific numbers on power consumption, but did say that it can peak at around 289 watts under load. Power consumption is said to be under the ATI X2 cards.

Visually, the card looks like any other NVIDIA reference design with black and silver coloring. In addition to the pair of DVI ports on the card, the reference design also offers a HDMI out. I would assume the addition of the HDMI out or DisplayPort for that matter will be up to the card partner. We will probably see many of the cards with DVI out only.

Performance is really what gamers want to know when a new video card is released. Guru3D ran the card at 2560 x 1600 on Far Cry 2 and the game was set at HQ DX10 mode, 4xAA and 16x AF for testing. The review found that the GTX 295 provided 54 FPS compared to the ATI Radeon HD 4870 X2's 49 fps at the same settings. However, when the AA was jumped up to 8x, the performance lead was in the Radeon 4870 X2's favor with 31 FPS compared to 24 FPS for the GTX 295.

But what about Crysis you ask? NVIDIA won’t like to hear that at 2560 x 1600, DX10, 2x MSAA and Gamer quality mode the GTX 295 turned in 19 FPS compared to the 4870 X2's 25 FPS. However, when you bump the resolution back to 1920 x 1200 at the same settings the performance gain is again markedly in the GTX 295's favor at 49 FPS compared to 36 FPS for the 4870 X2. Dead Space was the clear winner for the GTX 295 where at 2560 x 1600 it turned in 149 FPS compared to the 4870 X2's 80 FPS at the same settings.

The GTX 295 is set to launch on January 8 at a price of roughly $499. Save your Christmas money boys and girls.



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ATi still won the round...
By V3ctorPT on 12/18/2008 2:35:31 PM , Rating: 5
As their own engineers admited that RV770 worked even better then they expected... HD4870X2 is on the market for almost 6months, it's enough time to "milk"... Only now ATi is "forced" to cut prices on their hardware...

The best part of this is that prices will go down, for some wicked hardware :D




RE: ATi still won the round...
By BruceLeet on 12/18/2008 2:55:52 PM , Rating: 2
ATIs high-end cards seem to perform better than Nvidia cards at higher resolutions with anti-aliasing enabled. Why is this?

Anybody?


RE: ATi still won the round...
By V3ctorPT on 12/18/08, Rating: 0
RE: ATi still won the round...
By suryad on 12/18/2008 3:18:35 PM , Rating: 2
Is that the only reason? I was thinking its architecture and not just the RAM has to do with that. I keep reading that up to 4 x AA or something is free on the ATI offerings...though I admit I am a layman to even truly understand what that really means. I always thought enabling AA = extra work...


RE: ATi still won the round...
By therealnickdanger on 12/18/2008 3:33:28 PM , Rating: 4
The answer is never simple. AFAIK, both ATI and NVIDIA use different AA/AF algorithms to start with and then the driver usually offers even more methods. They also aren't always comparable in image quality either, so that adds another layer to an already awkward comparison.

Either way, these graphics cards are too l337 for me.


RE: ATi still won the round...
By TheSpaniard on 12/18/2008 5:08:07 PM , Rating: 1
$1337

is that the cost of one of these bad boys?


RE: ATi still won the round...
By tmouse on 12/22/2008 8:23:57 AM , Rating: 2
Leet ;)


RE: ATi still won the round...
By suryad on 12/19/2008 11:05:07 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Either way, these graphics cards are too l337 for me.


I dont even know what that means! As in price? If so I think 499 is the target for this bad boy? Thats a lot better than even last year when cards were selling for 650!


RE: ATi still won the round...
By Gideonic on 12/19/2008 2:49:02 AM , Rating: 3
Graphics hardware consists of 3 parts:

Shader processors
Texture mounting unit's (TMU)
Raster OPerators (ROP)

The last of which are responsible for the hardware AA resolve. In ATI's case they are designed in a way that they are able to do 1 (none) to 4x AA on 16 pixels per clock-cycle, therefore it takes the same amount of time to process pixels with 1-4x AA (apart from the extra memory load). With 8x AA the ROPs are only able to go through half the pixels in the same time-frame. A nice slide showing the difference can be seen here (although against the 3800 series):

http://techreport.com/r.x/radeon-hd-4870/render-ba...

The reason why there still is a difference between 1, 2 and 4xAA is that the extra memory load due to AA is measured in times per AA level. It's also the main reason why memory bandwidth is also very important to AA not only the amount of it.


RE: ATi still won the round...
By Reclaimer77 on 12/18/2008 4:39:43 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
Unless ATI has something serious to pull out of its sleeve at CES 2009, the crown will go back to NVIDIA it seems.


I think the author is a bit confused about ATI's strategy.

ATI could have made a $600 card too, Nvidia. Instead they made a $300 dollar card that put you to shame.

ATI doesn't have the capital to slug it out with Nvidia in the super high end video card segment. They aren't trying to take their "crown" there. Fanbois will rush out to spend whatever insane price Nvidia charges for their latest and greatest piece of shit, and thats fine with ATI. The mid-level GPU market has more mass appeal, and profit margins.


RE: ATi still won the round...
By FaceMaster on 12/18/2008 7:38:59 PM , Rating: 2
ATI completely redid the pipeline of their cards for the 4000 series. hey have a very aggressive Zcull, meaning that they aren't faster at drawing stuff, but they're faster at NOT drawing stuff, knowing which bits of the image they don't have to render because it's been eliminated from the pipeline early on.


RE: ATi still won the round...
By Amiga500 on 12/18/2008 4:23:14 PM , Rating: 2
Yeap... GTX295 is coming halfway through this generation.

Aren't ATI already sampling at 40nm? (I could be wrong on that)

GTX295 may only have a 6 month window... but then I suppose 4870x2 has only had the same 6 month window.

Anyhoo... cudos to ATI for ripping Nvidia's extortionate pricing policy to shreds and restoring great performance to the sub $300 bracket.


By silversound on 12/18/2008 2:10:10 PM , Rating: 3
I think both GTX295 & 4870X2 only for enthusiast, not for average gamers, so does that count for less than 3% of the total market share?
We do not have 30"inch monitor to play games...




By Natfly on 12/18/2008 2:45:05 PM , Rating: 4
Kind of stating the obvious there. Of course a 400 or 500 dollar card isn't going to be purchased by the average gamer. Especially when an 4830 will play most games fine for under 100 dollars.


By therealnickdanger on 12/18/2008 3:34:17 PM , Rating: 3
+1

That card is amazing!


why bother to review this
By s d on 12/18/2008 4:54:14 PM , Rating: 2
4 simple words ...

n o t ... direct ... x ... 11

:)




RE: why bother to review this
By dagamer34 on 12/18/2008 5:14:16 PM , Rating: 4
X isn't a word and 11 is a number.


RE: why bother to review this
By SpaceRanger on 12/18/2008 5:49:42 PM , Rating: 4
How about:

Not... Direct... Ex.... Eleven....


LOL@Power Consumption
By JonnyDough on 12/18/2008 6:40:02 PM , Rating: 1
2 of these would use 600w @ load, 3 use 900w@load. CRAZY! Get real NVidia. You don't pay my electric bill.




RE: LOL@Power Consumption
By Dribble on 12/19/2008 5:30:08 AM , Rating: 2
The 4870 X2 is rated at something like 310W so ATI can't have your money either.


RE: LOL@Power Consumption
By JonnyDough on 12/19/2008 1:58:50 PM , Rating: 2
You're right. They can't. Buying either top end card is a ridiculous waste of money.

One of the reasons America is hurting right now is because people today don't know how to save. The result of the great depression is that everyone learned to prepare for tomorrow. Just look at people 65+. Look at the saving habits of anyone younger and it's likely they live paycheck to paycheck.


RE: LOL@Power Consumption
By FITCamaro on 12/19/2008 8:18:15 AM , Rating: 2
What the hell do you expect from a single card with two GPUs and nearly 2GB of RAM on it? Not mention that each GPU has one of the largest processing cores ever made.

If you can afford a $500-600 GPU, I doubt you'll care about the $5 it adds to your power bill.


RE: LOL@Power Consumption
By Beno on 12/21/2008 11:32:39 AM , Rating: 2
is it possible to seperate graphics ram from the card?
like nvidia only provides the chip and i buy the "graphic ram" sticks and install them in the graphic ram slot on the motherboard. that way i can have much memory.

i dreamed about something that the other day :D


ATI has a very aggressive Z-cull
By FaceMaster on 12/18/2008 2:18:34 PM , Rating: 2
Nvidia's new cards are more like pumped up Geforce 8's. ATI has completetly redone their cards to make them faster at NOT doing stuff, drawing what only needs to be seen. I believe that this is the reason for ATI owning them at the highest resolutions. Not that most people will get to these resolutions. I'm sure that Nvidia has a new architecture waiting just around the corner.

As Nvidia said, 'ATI has a very aggressive Z-cull'




RE: ATI has a very aggressive Z-cull
By Goty on 12/18/2008 3:19:41 PM , Rating: 4
Every company always has an architecture "right around the corner".


By FaceMaster on 12/18/2008 7:36:44 PM , Rating: 2
I kind of just added that in so that people couldn't accuse me of dissing Nvidia, before saying that they're bound to have some new product out soon.


By Nfarce on 12/18/2008 4:04:31 PM , Rating: 2
As if going through a list of games and deciding which ones we play vs. which cards performed best in them wasn't enough, now we have to throw in resolutions and AA settings too for consideration. I have always gone Nvidia in the past, but the way AMD/ATi is pumping the cards out, I will most likely make the switch next spring. Here's to hoping by then they finally get their Crossfire driver problems squared away.




By Beno on 12/18/2008 8:50:22 PM , Rating: 3
i disagree on the resolution. it doesnt help for future development of cards.

if ATI and NV to only produce cards that only handles the "typical resolutions" you mentioned, we would still be on the 8 series or 9 series.

if you see a card benched at 1920x1200 and 2560x1600 with good framerates, rest assured that the card will rape the game at lower resolutions.

btw im on 1920x1200 :)


By Motley on 12/18/2008 11:24:44 PM , Rating: 2
I would disagree as well. The parent is stating many conflicting points. Either the cards are far ahead of the curve making all benchmarks useless, or they are not.

I'm running 1920x1200, as I have been for the past 3 years. If you can't afford the $400 monitor that can do 1920x1200, then a $500-$600 video card probably isn't for you. Showing what these cards can do while playing the games I have, running the resolutions I am (or above, as I'm not likely to ever downgrade), is exactly what I want in reviews.


By subhajit on 12/19/2008 6:41:36 AM , Rating: 1
I would like gaming graphics to be more realistic than shiny. Frankly, which seems more realistic to you, a movie in DVD resolution or a latest game in XHD. We still have a long way to go when it comes to actual realism specially when it comes to living things. I still haven't seen a single game where people/animals move in a natural way.


What about the HDMI?
By Sazar on 12/18/2008 4:09:59 PM , Rating: 4
Do we now have both audio and video over HDMI for this card or is it still primarily video?

Cheers :D




RE: What about the HDMI?
By Rockjock51 on 12/18/2008 6:51:42 PM , Rating: 2
My 9800 GX2 has a passthrough for audio over HDMI. Doesn't seem to work with an X-FI, but it would work if you used onboard sound.


RE: What about the HDMI?
By Marlowe on 12/19/2008 2:52:01 AM , Rating: 2
My HD4870X2 also has audio and video on the HDMI port, that actually works (with some fiddeling). I think the rest of the 4800 series has got this also.

I have to change standard output speakers to HDMI in Control Panel, and also then it doesn't work before I somehow update the connection in Catalyst Control Center. I use to change the HDTV frequency from 59 Hz to 60 Hz to do this. It always seem to set my Panasonic plasma at 59 Hz when I connect it. Anyways then it works :) I only use the m-boards integrated sound board tho.


DirectX 10.1
By Curelom on 12/18/2008 2:33:18 PM , Rating: 2
Will it support Direct X 10.1, or 11?




RE: DirectX 10.1
By FITCamaro on 12/18/2008 3:16:43 PM , Rating: 2
Still no DX10.1 support since this is still the same architecture as the GTX200 series. Just a different tweaking of it.


RE: DirectX 10.1
By Mitch101 on 12/18/2008 3:36:27 PM , Rating: 2
Yea it seems its a little late to the game especially after X-mas and knowing that DX11 is less than a year away.

I think both camps need to think about DX11 cards around the back to school time frame.


Be a bit wary of early reviews...
By Rodney McNaggerton on 12/18/2008 7:29:37 PM , Rating: 2
I'm not making any accusations, but Guru 3D is known as not being the most reliable and unbiased source, so why do you think they go the 295 early? I'll wait till the anand review before I make any conclusive decisions, but this is a good starting point.




By MadMan007 on 12/19/2008 1:25:06 PM , Rating: 2
Yeah it's pretty obvious they only did NV-favorable titles. Whether that was their choice or NV forced them, who knows. In any case this card will compete very well with the 4870x2 we just need more comprehensive testing.


double mint
By Dreifort on 12/18/2008 2:17:17 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
With that, much performance on tap power consumption might be a concern. Guru3D couldn’t provide any specific numbers on power consumption, but did say that it can peak at around 289 watts under load.


=o

quote:
The GTX 295 is set to launch on January 8 at a price of roughly $499. Save your Christmas money boys and girls.


Didn't the GTX280 hit the market with a $700 price? Talk about price drop. Still expensive, but $500 for supposedly better performance over $700. Wait til first of year, price should drop some more... maybe $399?




GTX 295 outperforms HD4870 X2
By maroon1 on 12/19/2008 9:07:09 AM , Rating: 3
Another look here
By Vigile on 12/18/2008 2:08:32 PM , Rating: 2
Very nice!
By kayronjm on 12/18/2008 2:15:39 PM , Rating: 2
Wow, cool. Finally a direct competitor to the ATI Radeon 4870 X2. Price is a little steep though but I guess it's expected from the very top end these days. I'm not upgrading for a while though, my heavily overclocked NVIDIA GeForce 8800GTS 640MB card is still going strong with the rest of my system and all the current games!!




Image quality?
By excrucio on 12/18/08, Rating: 0
RE: Image quality?
By etherreal on 12/19/2008 8:44:16 AM , Rating: 2
All you need to know about Image Quality:

http://clubnboc.com/forum/index.php?topic=98.0


By kilkennycat on 12/19/2008 9:14:12 PM , Rating: 2
Remember that both the GTX 295 and the 4870X2 depend on their variant of GPU-sharing functionality for their performance with any game. This functionality is solely dependent on the graphics driver, which has to be specifically tweaked for maximum multiple-GPU graphics performance on target games --- this fine-tuning is always restricted to a small number of select games that are currently "hot". The crest of on-going multiple-GPU driver optimization for new games also wanes significantly for previous generation multiple-GPUs once the next monolithic GPU with performance better than the previous dual-combo is released. Of course, without useful multiple-GPU driver support, the second GPU could always be used for physics acceleration if the game supported that function.

At this late stage of the current nV and ATi DX10 architectures and for those desiring ultimate graphics performance, I suggest waiting for the next iteration of monolithic (and hopefully Dx11-capable) GPU architecture from these manufacturers. Whatever about ATi, nVidia is obviously very short-term stop-gapping with their current G9x variants (inc the 200-series family) since these has been zero investment in enhanced features requiring significant architectural changes (such as Dx10.1 or the use of GDDR5) in the 55nm spin of the GT2xx GPU.




By Crazyeyeskillah on 12/20/2008 8:51:43 PM , Rating: 2
Is the truth for a lot of people, however, I tend to think it has more to do with the cheapest cost of upgradeable hardware. . .

I'm still bias against nvidia ever since they nixed intel support for sli on intel mobos, I have 2 8800gt's sitting here i can't even use on my badaxe mobo. . .awhile back i was able to run 7900gtx in sli on the board with driver fixes, but nvidia has gone out of their way to prevent the end user from buying intel hardware. . .gg




I could...
By JonnyDough on 12/18/2008 6:34:16 PM , Rating: 1
give a crap about this card, as I will never purchase it. However, if it pushes prices down on more realistic cards then I'm all for it!




"You can bet that Sony built a long-term business plan about being successful in Japan and that business plan is crumbling." -- Peter Moore, 24 hours before his Microsoft resignation














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