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Hardware NVIDIA Delays Hybrid SLI
Gabriel Ikram (Blog) - March 21, 2008 11:16 PM
Print E-mail del.icio.us 29 comment(s) - last by compositor.. on Apr 13 at 8:54 PM

Hybrid SLI motherboard with GeForce 8200 graphics integrated onto the northbridge  (Source: ZOL.com.cn)
Those looking forward to GeForce 8200 paired with another GPU will have to wait a tad longer

NVIDIA representatives notified its board partners this week that its new Hybrid SLI technology has been delayed. NVIDIA's Hybrid SLI technology offers an innovative new method to improve power management and performance. However, motherboard vendors will have to wait to implement the new NVIDIA feature.

The basics of Hybrid SLI aren't very difficult to understand. The term itself envelopes two different NVIDIA technologies, GeForce Boost and HybridPower. GeForce Boost allows for a single discrete NVIDIA graphics card to be paired with an NVIDIA motherboard's integrated graphics. HybridPower, on the other hand, dynamically throttles the discrete graphics adapter as needed.

The delay notification reads, "We are still experiencing delays in getting the kits sent as the product is experiencing delays, drivers are being fine-tuned and sales tools are being finalized."

NVIDIA goes on to promise that Hybrid SLI samples will reach vendors in the second half of April, which means retail availability has been pushed into late May. The company does not state the reason for the delay.

Cards that currently support Hybrid SLI include the GeForce 8500 GT as well as the GeForce 8400 GS. The chipsets that support Hybrid SLI include the NVIDIA nForce 720a and the nForce 730a.

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All good and well, but...
By Warren21 on 3/22/2008 12:36:09 AM , Rating: 2
Who is honestly "waiting" to pair an IGP with a discrete? I mean in the sense that someone is planning to do this right off the bat.

I'd much rather have a beefier discrete than mediocre IGP + mediocre discrete.

I can only see this being viable for people who end up getting such a motherboard in an OEM computer (Dell, HP, etc.) and end up wanting more GPU HP down the road.

In short: I think very few people are dismayed by this development.




RE: All good and well, but...
By ebakke on 3/22/2008 12:54:28 AM , Rating: 5
I'm thinking this is great for those who buy a pre-built computer and want to upgrade the GPU later. After all, IGP + any quality discrete > same quality discrete. Right?


RE: All good and well, but...
By clovell on 3/24/2008 6:49:25 PM , Rating: 2
Exactly. Unfortunately for Nvidia, 780G is the dominant IGP right now. Not that it matters to the average Joe who buys pre-built stuff.


RE: All good and well, but...
By mcnabney on 3/22/2008 1:04:40 AM , Rating: 5
I am.

I am waiting to build a dual use computer that will sit in my living room component rack. It will double-up as a HTPC and decent gaming computer.
The advantage to HybridPower is that the integrated GPU will run during 2D operation and provide full hardware HD video acceleration. When I want to game the discrete video card, and I am talking about one of Nvidia's future releases that will be priced around $250-300, will turn itself on and deliver the full gaming experience. The mechanics of this allows the discrete GPU to be unpowered (saving electricity, heat, and noise) when unneeded. It also allows the more powerful GPU to dump the frame buffer into the integrated GPUs buffer so that the video connection takes place on the integrated GPU. That allows the integrated HD audio, which on these motherboards will support uncompressed 8 channel LPCM, to be joined with the video stream and sent to the HDTV/AV Receiver by way of a single HDMI cable. This has been what many people have been waiting for.
Do you want to save PC gaming? Well, you better find a way to move it into the living room or it will continue to wither. The gaming HTPC is a fully converged product and the potential market is huge.


RE: All good and well, but...
By Imaginer on 3/22/2008 1:09:13 PM , Rating: 4
Especially now since we have HDTVs capable of decent PC display resolutions (1080p is nice when paired with a computer) So if one has a TV, instead of being behind a desk, one can pair this setup with one's choice of wireless keyboard or mouse or even using a PC controller as a mouse, sit back and enjoy computing in their living room.

And with this setup, it is even more capable than any settop media box, game console, or a standalone DVD/BD/HDDVD player.


RE: All good and well, but...
By Lightning III on 3/22/08, Rating: 0
RE: All good and well, but...
By mcnabney on 3/22/2008 9:11:10 PM , Rating: 2
Good points.

I would like to buy AMD since I do own many shares of their stock, but a $250 Phenom is going to get thrashed by a midrange Core2 on the gaming side. Buying AMD/ATI Hybrid means you are stuck with not the fastest options for CPU and GPU, so you are tying your hands a bit. But the idea is still tempting. ATI does better color rendition. However, their audio solution is DTS or 2 channel PCM - not Bitstream HD or 7.1 LPCM. I guess I will wait until I hear more about R600 and what future motherboards AMD is developing.


RE: All good and well, but...
By BruceLeet on 3/22/08, Rating: 0
RE: All good and well, but...
By ViRGE on 3/22/2008 2:40:59 AM , Rating: 4
There are 2 big things you can do with HSLI:

1) As a way to allow consumers to improve their computer performance without having to completely throw away what their IGP can do. They buy a $40 video card, and SLI it with the IGP, giving them performance greater than what a $40 video card does today.

2) And this is the important one for your perspective: Turn off the discrete GPU when it's not needed. For a high-end system the discrete GPU will never be SLI'd with the IGP, but when the discrete GPU is not needed (just web browsing, for example) the discrete GPU can be shutdown entirely and everything done by the IGP. This saves a lot of power (high-end GPUs are power-hungry, even when clocked down) and produces less heat & noise. This is also why Nvidia will in the next year be putting IGPs on every chipset, from the top to the bottom.

In other words, it's not just the guys at the low-end that will be benefiting from ths.


RE: All good and well, but...
By xsilver on 3/22/2008 3:28:57 AM , Rating: 1
Yes, but at the moment, the highest power card that works with this tech is the 8500gt which isnt exactly going to set anybody's pants on fire. The increased fps is going to be minimal and the power saving may be a significant yet small 30w or so.

Hopefully they're going back to the drawing board in order to create the capability to run this technology with much more high end cards.

Tagging together a 8800gt+ with IGP will create a 150w+ power differential which will be hugely useful in power requirements as well as heat issues.


RE: All good and well, but...
By ViRGE on 3/22/2008 4:17:43 AM , Rating: 2
As far as I know, all post-G80 GPUs can be powered down, this includes the 8600, the 8800GT, and everything in the 9000 series. Certainly everything new that is coming out is capable of being powered down, which is going to be especially useful on the 9800GX2 (which is rated for something like 300W max power consumption).


RE: All good and well, but...
By omnicronx on 3/23/2008 2:11:51 AM , Rating: 2
Do you guys read the articles before you rate people down?
quote:
Cards that currently support Hybrid SLI include the GeForce 8500 GT as well as the GeForce 8400 GS.

This means that regardless of what you 'know', currently the fastest card that would support this feature is the 8500GT..


RE: All good and well, but...
By ViRGE on 3/23/2008 7:34:38 AM , Rating: 3
Interestingly enough, the 8500 and lower are the cards that support GeForceBoost (i.e. are slow enough that SLIing with the GPU helps). Post-G80 processors have the hardware to power down, however Nvidia is not ready to release HybridPower yet. HybridSLI 8500 and lower is only a true statement for GeForceBoost.

It's very possible the whole reason for the delay is HybridPower, from what I understand that's the bit Nvidia was having the most trouble with at CES. It requires a lot of software support, the just released Vista SP1 contains the updates needed to make it work under Windows for example.


RE: All good and well, but...
By Viditor on 3/24/2008 6:43:22 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
It's very possible the whole reason for the delay is HybridPower, from what I understand that's the bit Nvidia was having the most trouble with at CES


My guess is that they are still trying to tweak the performance. The 780G chipset (at least according to Anand) appears to be significantly better for gaming.
Also, they seem to be having driver problems...

"the upcoming NVIDIA GeForce 8200 will not be included for a couple of reasons, first, retail boards on not available yet, second, the drivers are still immature to the point of needing separate builds for either PQ or Performance"

http://www.anandtech.com/weblog/showpost.aspx?i=40...


RE: All good and well, but...
By xsilver on 3/24/2008 8:57:57 AM , Rating: 2
right- my valid point gets rated down while someone putting forth speculation gets rated up???

powering down and powering OFF are two very different things.
hybid SLI is supposed to support powering OFF = O watts power consumption. Yes, the 8800gt supports powering down, which is basically underclocking, this isnt yet fully utilized though because through my personal testing, I have found that manual overclocking down to 200/200mhz brings down the temperature down another few degrees. Meaning that the powering down mode is higher than 200/200mhz.

As it stands, hybrid SLI with a low powered card while not useless isnt exactly useful if it cant support a high powered card.


RE: All good and well, but...
By Locutus465 on 3/22/2008 1:07:39 PM , Rating: 2
People who can't afford high end parts, but can afford to buy lower end parts over time. It's a good solution over all, doesn't AMD/ATI already support this?


Tryin to match AMD...
By Viditor on 3/22/2008 7:15:10 AM , Rating: 3
Isn't this exactly what the AMD 780G chipset already does?




RE: Tryin to match AMD...
By Nehemoth on 3/22/2008 9:25:13 AM , Rating: 2
Hell yes.

I will go the 780G route.

Bring 720p to my table.


RE: Tryin to match AMD...
By Lonyo on 3/22/2008 11:23:41 AM , Rating: 2
Can't be the same.

quote:
NVIDIA's Hybrid SLI technology offers an innovative new method to improve power management and performance.


Innovative, you see. They can't be copying AMD if they're being innovative!


RE: Tryin to match AMD...
By KernD on 3/22/2008 12:26:39 PM , Rating: 2
Yea, PR people lie all the time, it works because only a small percentage of the people know the truth.

AMD announced this first, NVidia thought it was a good ideas, so they started to work on it, but it probably was rushed a bit, so it's going to be coming later than initially announced.

It's exactly the same thing, use the IGP to save power, accelerate video decompression and aid the DG when more power is needed. Those ideas come from the laptop front, but will be used on the desktop because we are now in an era where energy efficiency is important.


RE: Tryin to match AMD...
By NicePants42 on 3/23/2008 3:47:06 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Isn't this exactly what the AMD 780G chipset already does?

No, it is not.

mcnabney points out the important differences in his post above, noting that Hybrid SLI is supposed to completely power down the discrete GPU during normal 2D operation (Hybrid Crossfire with the 780G chipset uses the discrete GPU 100% of the time), and Hybrid SLI will allow users to send 8 channel LCPM along with the video signal over a single HDMI cable (current implementations of the 780G chipset can only send 2 channels over HDMI - separate cables must be used for surround sound).

While details such as these may be trivial to some, audiophiles (and neat-freaks) have good reason to prefer Hybrid SLI for audio processing, and those who plan to use a discrete GPU will appreciate not having to cool or power it (at all) when it's not needed.


HybridPower
By arturnowp on 3/22/2008 7:31:23 AM , Rating: 2
The only worthwhile technology is HybridPower. If I still played on my PC (fortunately I switched to PS3 for gaming) I would be interested in HybridPower on analogous technology from AMD. I play rearly and I don't see any reason form my computer to always drain a lot of power, produce a lot of noise and heat. So this technology is very promising. Byc Hybridboost... it rather suck as you can pair only low-end cards and it's always better choice to get something like Radeon HD3850 (3830 is behind the corner) or even GeForce 8600GT. It's better and more economical choice for a gamer then pair lowest-end discrete graphics card with IGP.




RE: HybridPower
By nerdye on 3/23/2008 4:14:02 PM , Rating: 2
I think hybrid sli is a cool idea in the fact that it can reduce the power draw of our monster discrete graphics cards, I would have no problem using hybrid sli to reduce my power usage on my gaming box when I'm just browsing the internet like now. The picture of the motherboard shows one dvi connector, I have to have 2 monitors at one time, I wonder how that will be handled? And if you have lets say a discrete graphics card with a hybrid sli IGP motherboard, would you plug you dvi/vga cables into the discrete card of the IGP? Is there a super fast interconnect/bus between the IGP and pciE slots on hybrid sli boards?

I have always been skeptical of any boards with IGP due to the fact that they can get in the way of overclocking which is an absolute must for me, I can't wait to see how these boards perform in that realm as these are "enthusiast" boards, well atleast some of them.

http://www.wordpressbestblogs.com


RE: HybridPower
By roadrun777 on 3/26/2008 2:36:25 AM , Rating: 2
That is why I get so angry about this whole thing.

They must move the CPU and the GPU onto the same memory controller, either that or allow us to upgrade the memory on the graphics cards.

I want to see a board where the memory controller is used for GPU and CPU allowing extremely tight latencies and eliminating all these different speed interconnection buses which of course eliminates wait states.

Every time you introduce another bus to a system you have to add another interruption or polling mechanism which allows two different speed buses to talk to each other. All of these different speed buses create bottlenecks, performance degradation, and instability. Consolidate the system buses to as few as possible, moving all the highest speed components onto the same bus.

I want to see drop in GPU sockets or at least upgradeable memory for GPU's. There is a real market for this and the whole industry has sat on its rear when it came time to move this forward. They say "Why? We are already making good money with the systems and designs in place, why would we make it better?"


RE: HybridPower
By compositor on 4/13/2008 8:53:08 PM , Rating: 2
I think the Hybrid concept is great, the only thing I wonder about is why it can't support more than one discrete graphics processing card since the fundamentals of power down etc, are really appealing.

I'm hoping that NVIDIA can refine the technology so that a single discrete card ie., dual GPU with expandable memory; can be placed on a hybrid graphics motherboard, so that "tri-sli" becomes the new standard.


Well
By GNStudios on 3/22/2008 5:01:01 AM , Rating: 2
It looks promising, but I'll wait for the ethanol version.




RE: Well
By Imaginer on 3/22/2008 1:12:16 PM , Rating: 2
XP Compatible?
By Screwballl on 3/28/2008 4:39:46 PM , Rating: 2
If it doesn't work with XP then they have a bomb on their hands... 75-80% of individuals that build their own systems still use XP.




RE: XP Compatible?
By compositor on 4/13/2008 8:54:59 PM , Rating: 2
It matters little whether it works on legacy systems or not, since DX10.1 and Shader 4.1 aren't even supported on the latest NVIDIA systems anyway.

What matters is that the technology can support what is necessary in order for the overall framework to operate.


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