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The next codenames to remember: GT200 and RV770

After the NVIDIA financial analyst call last week, the company briefly hinted at its upcoming roadmap this year. 

AMD's RV770 architecture, set to launch this summer, will be immediately followed by a new graphics architecture from NVIDIA, codenamed GT200.  GeForce 9900, as it's been dubbed, is not simply a derivation of G92 like the current GeForce 9800 GX2 and GTX offerings.

NVIDIA has been extremely tight-lipped about GeForce 9900, as it overlaps considerably with its current high-end offerings.  NVIDIA's latest flagship products, the GeForce 9800 GTX and GeForce GX2 only made their debut last month.  Unlike the GeForce 9900, these cards were once again based on the G92 die -- nearly the same GPU used in the GeForce 8800 GT. 

Original NVIDIA roadmaps put the GT200 launch in late Fall 2008. However internal memos sent out to board partners in early March detail that the GT200 processor has already been taped out.  The same document alludes to the fact that the GT200 chip is very stable, and has been ready to ship for reference designs for several weeks already.

The company gave no reason for the tentative roll-in, but with AMD launching the successor to successful RV670 (Radeon 3850, 3870) this summer, it seems entirely plausible that NVIDIA anticipates another close race. 

AMD partners claim Radeon RV770 will make its debut this summer under $300. NVIDIA's 9900 is currently scheduled as an ultra-high end adapter to be priced higher than the GeForce 9800 GX2 offerings, which retail for more than $500 today.

Channel partners indicate that the 9800 GTX and GX2 will begin phasing out next month in preparation for the GT200 launch. Both companies have made promises to show demonstrations of their next-gen cards at the Computex Taipei trade show on June 3, 2008.


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You know...
By geddarkstorm on 4/16/2008 5:40:45 PM , Rating: 5
Nvidia needs to hire new people for naming products. This "new core but same retail number" scheme just isn't working for me.




RE: You know...
By RaptorZA on 4/16/2008 5:50:28 PM , Rating: 4
dont forget their same core new number approach


RE: You know...
By ImSpartacus on 4/17/2008 7:29:09 PM , Rating: 3
I have been preaching this for so long.

The 8800GT and GTS512 should've been 8900's along with the 9800's.

I find it hilarious that the 9800's are considered a totally new gen when they are a refresh and the *900 position is saved for refreshes, not the *800 position.

Then the totally new gen is going to look like a freakin refresh as the 9900.

nVidia's naming scheme is a mess. I can't wait until they have to do something different (10800 doesn't work as someone already said).


RE: You know...
By ElFenix on 4/18/2008 3:32:37 PM , Rating: 3
X800 obviously.


RE: You know...
By Smoza on 4/17/2008 12:08:47 AM , Rating: 2
It's only because they still don't know where their naming scheme is going after the 9 series.

10800GTX?

one hundred and eight hundred GTX doesn't exactly roll off the tongue...


RE: You know...
By DeSade on 4/17/2008 10:18:11 AM , Rating: 3
Well, as a personal preference I wouldn't mind seeing something to the effect of 10kXX(GT, GTX, whatever) or as they get higher 10k1XX, 10k2XX etc.

They could carry that naming convention on for quite a while as it really doesn't get any larger naming wise. Or they could just roll back like ATI did a few years ago and just start over again...


RE: You know...
By Warren21 on 4/17/2008 5:20:25 PM , Rating: 2
ATI didn't completely 'roll back' however. With the X800 XT for example, the X means 10 (roman numerals). X1900 = 11900, etc.

They only dropped this convention when AMD bought them out and changed it from quite possibly what would have been the X2x00 to HD2x00... probably for its HDMI/UVD capabilities.


Most solid RV770 specs to date.
By Warren21 on 4/17/2008 1:54:23 AM , Rating: 5
Kris said he didn't list much info on RV770 because he doesn't know much about it, which is understandable. I've been researching it as a possible upgrade on my X38, and here's what I've found over the last few months.

"RV770"
- 55nm.
- ~830M Transistors; approx. 25% increase in size [vs RV670].
- DX 10.1/SM 4.1/OGL 2.0
- 480SP or 800SP* per RV770 (R700 therefore = 960 or 1600).
- 256-bit mem interface.
- 32 TMUs (finally!)
- 24 or 32 ROPs.
- AA performance 'fixed' from R6xx lineage.
- Launch parts (May/June) will use GDDR3.
- Later models (July) will use GDDR5 (ATI's original goal), as it will not be ready before then.
- 2GHz (4GHz DDR)++ GDDR5 speeds enable triple-digit GB/s bandwidth despite 256-bit interface.
- 800-1000 MHz core clock.

*I can agree with everything on here except the debate of 480 vs. 800 SP. It stems from differing interpretations of RV770 details. One number is certain: 480. Some people say it is 480 SPs, while certain insiders understand it to mean an increase of 480 SP with respect to RV670: 800 total.

Either way, the better texturing/ROP performance is long overdue; this has always been ATI's shortcoming. Also good to know is that due to Rx7xx's Rx6xx heritage, driver optimizations should carry over from one to another; HD2K/HD3K owners won't be left in the dust from driver optimizations.




RE: Most solid RV770 specs to date.
By DingieM on 4/17/2008 3:31:03 AM , Rating: 2
ATI is getting better and better all the time.
With this performance for a reasonable price they really think about their customers!


RE: Most solid RV770 specs to date.
By 3kliksphilip on 4/18/2008 3:00:11 PM , Rating: 2
That's assuming that the price is reasonable.

ATI made the X3x00 series, Nvidia followed suit with the 9800's. In ATI's case it was to remove the unsuccessful X2x00 series from its product line. The X3800's are definitely a step forward- not much faster, but far more efficient (allowing for X2 cards). If they continue this trend I believe that their new cards could be a BIG success. Okay, all of that was common sense... unlike Nvidia's 9800's. Just call them 8900's and reserve the 9x00 series for the new technology, don't blacken its image with overclocked 8800 cards! At this rate they're going to have to rethink their naming strategy soon.

Geforce 10800 ?
Geforce10 X30, X60, X90 ?
... Voodoo?! 3DFX?!


By spluurfg on 4/19/2008 5:39:52 PM , Rating: 2
Well, as mentioned in the article, it seems that the channel partners are expecting a $300 price, which sure sounds nice in my books.


RE: Most solid RV770 specs to date.
By FITCamaro on 4/17/2008 10:56:04 AM , Rating: 2
Finally more than 16 TMUs.

It's about time. ATI might continue to get my business since maybe next Christmas I might build a new PC. Don't know if I'll go AMD or Intel for the processor though. The Intel will probably be faster, but AMD is a good bit cheaper. You can get a quad-core from AMD for $200. Intel starts at $280-ish. And it seems Intel motherboards are often far more expensive than AMD ones.


RE: Most solid RV770 specs to date.
By darkpaw on 4/17/2008 11:31:45 AM , Rating: 2
List for Intel starts 280ish, but the Q6600s have been available for $180-200 for a few months now (even retail boxed).

At that price, AMD is completely non-competitive.


RE: Most solid RV770 specs to date.
By FITCamaro on 4/18/2008 12:29:29 PM , Rating: 2
Would love to see a link for that price. Newegg is running $245.


By Martimus on 4/18/2008 1:19:22 PM , Rating: 2
http://www.frys.com/product/5101696

There you go, $179 at Fry's (click the special price button)

http://www.microcenter.com/single_product_results....

Also, it is $199 at Microcenter.


RE: Most solid RV770 specs to date.
By nafhan on 4/18/08, Rating: 0
I feel sorry for anyone who purchased 9800GX2
By bill3 on 4/16/2008 9:19:16 PM , Rating: 2
What a piece of crap. Nvidia should have never released that.

I guess you could say people who buy a 600 video card wont miss the money, but it's not really true, plenty of regular joes bought it. I remember a guy on H forums asking if he should buy it when it came out. Said he knew it was a bad idea but he wanted to buy the absolute highest end card for the only time in his life for his new system. It was really like a desire in his heart to buy the very best GPU.

I told him he was crazy, wait, (real) new cards were likely right around the corner. I was right..




RE: I feel sorry for anyone who purchased 9800GX2
By just4U on 4/17/2008 1:30:54 AM , Rating: 2
you know, I don't have a problem with the 9800GX2. To me that's fine. It's got the 512bt memory bus with the G92 core. I'd be curious to have a look at it myself.

THe 9800GTX on the other hand, hmm it really brings nothing new to the table over a 8800GTS/512 and probably shouldn't have had the GTX logo put to it as it's sort of misleading.


RE: I feel sorry for anyone who purchased 9800GX2
By Warren21 on 4/17/2008 1:55:19 AM , Rating: 2
No, it's actually 2 x 256 bit, just like the 3870 X2. It really is two cards in SLI, no two ways about it.


RE: I feel sorry for anyone who purchased 9800GX2
By just4U on 4/17/2008 11:11:20 AM , Rating: 2
Interesting comment Warren. Originally when I went to check out the X2's specs with the site that I tend to deal with the brands had said 512 memory interface.. Now they say 256+256 or 512(combined)

Damn I didnt know that. I'd thought they'd revamped the memory controller for the X2's.


RE: I feel sorry for anyone who purchased 9800GX2
By Warren21 on 4/17/2008 5:26:55 PM , Rating: 2
For sure a 1GB pool of shared memory with a revamped 512-bit controller which handles both cores would provide better performance (or at least I would think so...).

Both the X2 and the GX2 were sort of afterthoughts however (the X2 less so), so they were designed from cores not meant to be put into 'one card'. I guess a true 512-bit bus didn't show enough of a performance gain to outweigh the costs of redesigning a memory bus/PCB/etc.


By overzealot on 4/20/2008 1:05:43 PM , Rating: 2
I can cope with them referring to the GX2 and 3870x2 as 512bit interface cards (it's technically true, even if it is 2 256bit busses that can only be accessed by their particular GPU) but I wish they wouldn't refer to them as 1gb. Sure, they take up 1gb of address space (making 32bit users cry) but as far as textures and framebuffer goes, you're just as good as with 512mb.
It's intended to confuse people, and it does.


but can it...
By 4wardtristan on 4/17/2008 12:00:53 AM , Rating: 2
<insert-crysis-performance-question-here>




RE: but can it...
By Anosh on 4/17/08, Rating: -1
RE: but can it...
By just4U on 4/17/2008 11:43:55 AM , Rating: 2
Well to be fair, Crysis is a next gen game that brings all video cards to it's knees. SO with that in mind any card that it performs really well on will get the nod for possible new games on the horizon. So ... it is a valid question.


RE: but can it...
By feraltoad on 4/18/2008 2:17:53 AM , Rating: 2
I agree, Crysis hasn't been put to bed yet. Right now things do hinge on Crysis for me, and I am sure others, for the reasons you mention. My two year old card (1900xtx) can play COD4 high settings. So, if I don't get great performance on Crysis why should I upgrade? From a 6600gt to the 1900xtx was miles apart, and I won't be happy paying out the nose for for negligle increases. It may be an asumption, but I also believe that performance in Crysis will speak to performance in future games. Moreover, if the next series of cards really rocks Crysis then Crytek might be able to license out its engine. I don't think anyone can deny the visual appeal, but the Unreal engine continues to mop up with it's great performance scaling.


RE: but can it...
By 4wardtristan on 4/18/2008 2:19:21 AM , Rating: 2
did you happen to not see the fact that i actually didnt ask a question...i was actually taking the piss outta the "but will it run crysis?" questions, which im sure you could tell(by the "<" and ">" and the words inbetween)

im sorry that my "question" doesnt provide any new knowledge *to you*..but it may to someone else, you never know.

im sorry that my 7-word post took up *all* of your valuable bandwith

i am sorry that my 7-word post took up 3 seconds of your reading time.

i am also sorry that my 7-word post took up about 8-13cmx1.5-2.5cm of your screen realestate.

.


RE: but can it...
By 4wardtristan on 4/18/2008 2:21:15 AM , Rating: 2
change 7's to 5's and i might have something


Whew!!
By flurazepam on 4/16/2008 3:28:27 PM , Rating: 2
Glad I held onto my 8800GTX and didn't get on the upgrade train with the 9800's!! Another way too-short-lived-not-really-an-improvement-stop-gap product (9800s, that is). Maybe this time, now that Vista has been out for a while, the drivers will work that much better ;)




RE: Whew!!
By amanojaku on 4/16/2008 3:41:00 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Maybe this time, now that Vista has been out for a while, the drivers will work that much better


Yeah. Right.


RE: Whew!!
By just4U on 4/17/2008 11:29:52 AM , Rating: 2
The drivers for vista work fine. Occasionally you still have the odd game that has a crit error but it's not often and none of the systems I use have given bsod's for Nvidia drivers yet.

Infact the only time I see a bsod is when I've tried pushing a system to far and used memory that doesn't play nicely on certain motherboards.


RE: Whew!!
By MrBungle123 on 4/16/2008 4:31:06 PM , Rating: 2
my question is will it fit in my case? The 8800GTX/Ultra, and 9800 GX2 would all hit my hard drives if I attempted to install one.


so wait...
By yacoub on 4/17/2008 10:29:22 AM , Rating: 2
How are they going head-to-head again exactly when, according to your own reporting, the new NVidia part is going to be super high-end and the ATi/AMD part is going to be sub-$300?




RE: so wait...
By FITCamaro on 4/17/2008 10:58:13 AM , Rating: 2
Starting out yes. Besides, which card do you think will sell more? An ultra high end $600 card, or a $300 or less card?


nvidia fanboys?
By Screwballl on 4/16/08, Rating: -1
RE: nvidia fanboys?
By HaZaRd2K6 on 4/16/08, Rating: -1
RE: nvidia fanboys?
By onwisconsin on 4/16/2008 4:14:42 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
There's a reason this post is in the Blogs section and not regular front-page news.


Ding! Ding! Ding! Ding!


RE: nvidia fanboys?
By Amiga500 on 4/17/2008 5:14:39 AM , Rating: 3
I'll never use an ATI card again simply because of their drivers.

HAHAHAHAHA

You aren't serious? :-|

Since AMD bought ATI their drivers have been improving leaps and bounds on a clockwork monthly basis. That is both on linux and windows.

Dailytech - is there any more news on the open source driver program (the one with AMD releasing documentation of their GPUs) - how is it coming along? Last I heard the 2D performance was pretty decent.


RE: nvidia fanboys?
By KristopherKubicki (blog) on 4/16/2008 4:01:16 PM , Rating: 5
quote:
So why all the coverage and focus on the nvidia cards and only a few brief sentences about AMD/ATI? Guess that points to where the preference lies here.

The pragmatic assumption would be that I don't know much about RV770, rather than an overt need to bias the article.


RE: nvidia fanboys?
By bill3 on 4/16/08, Rating: -1
RE: nvidia fanboys?
By RobFDB on 4/17/2008 4:38:58 AM , Rating: 1
I'll be honest here, I think masher may take issue with that statement.


RE: nvidia fanboys?
By oTAL on 4/17/08, Rating: 0
RE: nvidia fanboys?
By FITCamaro on 4/17/2008 10:48:51 AM , Rating: 2
So don't come to the site.

And they said RV770 will debut around $300. That doesn't mean there won't be higher end and more expensive parts. Regardless, even if they don't have the highest end part, I'd rather have an affordable part.


RE: nvidia fanboys?
By psychobriggsy on 4/18/2008 7:29:28 AM , Rating: 1
I've never thought that Dailytech has shilled for Sony, BluRay or Apple. Quite the contrary. Ditto regarding hating Microsoft.

They don't hate Apple nearly as much as The Register or The Inquirer however. Their hate borders on mental unstability.

95%+ of graphics card buyers will be buying in the sub-$300 range, maybe more if we enter a recession. This is the best place for AMD to target, ahead of the performance market. I'm sure AMD will come out with a dual-RV770 card as well for that.


RE: nvidia fanboys?
By othercents on 4/16/2008 4:02:31 PM , Rating: 1
Well not exactly. We are all about the underdog. AMD vs INTEL we choose AMD. AMD vs NVIDIA we choose NVIDIA. MAC vs PC we choose PC. What were you expecting me to say MAC?

Other


RE: nvidia fanboys?
By Etsp on 4/16/2008 4:10:04 PM , Rating: 2
Wait, Who is the underdog in Nvidia vs AMD?


RE: nvidia fanboys?
By HaZaRd2K6 on 4/16/2008 4:55:04 PM , Rating: 2
AMD is still a helluva lot bigger than nVidia is. I think what he meant to say was ATI (or AMD's ATI division).


RE: nvidia fanboys?
By MrBungle123 on 4/16/2008 6:08:19 PM , Rating: 2
well... until you factor in that AMD's stock price is 1/8th what it was a couple years ago.


RE: nvidia fanboys?
By Sulphademus on 4/17/2008 10:11:33 AM , Rating: 2
Its what they get for bungling the Phenom and having no top end video card.

Good (not great) CPU, but the delays and TLB bug are killing them. Their ATI side has struggled since the buyout and merger but thats kind of expected. Heres hoping they can both get back in the ring with some force.


RE: nvidia fanboys?
By FITCamaro on 4/17/2008 10:50:47 AM , Rating: 3
Top end products don't provide much revenue. They're there for bragging rights. A low end part that performs better than the other person's low end part is far more important to drive lots of revenue.


RE: nvidia fanboys?
By HaZaRd2K6 on 4/18/2008 9:15:39 PM , Rating: 2
Perhaps, but top-end parts have much higher profit margins than do low-end parts.

Riddle me this: If an 8800GT 512MB costs around $200, then why do two of them bolted together (essentially what the 9800GX2 is) cost $600? There certainly isn't $200 worth of cooler on the card. That extra $200 is pure profit.


RE: nvidia fanboys?
By overzealot on 4/20/2008 1:12:30 PM , Rating: 2
Well, what if we put it a different way:
If you sell an 100 8800gt's for $200 with $50 profit for every one 9800gx2 sold for $600 with $250 profit, which is the card that keeps your company in the black and keeps you in a job?


"And boy have we patented it!" -- Steve Jobs, Macworld 2007

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