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  (Source: Defense Ministry of Pakistan)
Obama has defended the use of drone killings to protect "security"; Snowden does livestream Q&A

Given that the Obama administration and its Republican "frienemies" have accused U.S. National Security Administration (NSA) leaker Edward Snowden of "Act(s) of Treason" for revealing U.S. efforts to spy on foreigners (PRISM) and track the locations/call records of 99 percent of Americans (FISA court orders), some wonder how far the nation will go to silence further leaks.

I. Democrats, Republicans: Snowden is "Traitor", Risk to "National Security"

Both parties seem relatively united in condemning Mr. Snowden as a "traitor" to his country for leaking the details on the government's efforts to erode citizens' Constitutional freedom to live their lives in privacy -- even as civil liberties groups call him a patriot.

Sen. Bill Nelson (D-Fla.) states, "What Edward Snowden did amounts to an Act of Treason."

Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.), reiterates, "I don't look at this as being a whistle-blower, I think it's an act of treason.  He took an oath - that oath is important. He violated the oath, he violated the law. It's an act of treason in my view."

Rep. John Boehner (R-Ohio) told Good Morning America, "He's a traitor."

Rep. Peter Kin
Rep. Peter King (R-N.Y.) and others suggest Snowden is a national security threat and must be silenced. [Image Source: CNN]

And U.S. Rep. Peter T. King (R-New York) comments, "I think action should be taken, especially on something of this magnitude.  I think something on this magnitude..  compromises national security."

II. Obama Administration: Drone Deaths Strikes OK to Protect National Security

The U.S. may have a difficult time extricating Mr. Snowden given that he's holed up at a safe house in a secret location in Hong Kong, China.  And given that some of his leaks reveal details of programs the U.S. used to spy on China, Chinese officials are reportedly hesitant to hunt him down.

The Obama Administration's Attorney General (AG) Eric Holder and President Obama have already endorsed the use of drone death strikes to kill Americans in "extreme" cases where "national security" is threatened.  Given the harsh rhetoric from both Congressional Democrats and Republicans (and the White House) some fear that Mr. Snowden could soon be targeted by such a strike, if his location is determined.

Predator missile
Some top officials believe the U.S. may use a drone death strike on Snowden.
[Image Source: Drone Wars UK]


Mr. Snowden appears to be still alive and well -- he is doing a live-stream Q&A today at 11 a.m. EST.

III. Rep. Paul Warns of Death Strike Possibility

Rep. Ron Paul (R-Texas), who is among the few in Congress to condemn the spying and praised Mr. Snowden's whistleblowing, voiced this concern telling Fox Business News, "I’m worried about somebody in our government might kill him with a cruise missile or a drone missile.  I mean we live in a bad time where American citizens don’t even have rights and that they can be killed, but the gentlemen is trying to tell the truth about what’s going on."

Ron Paul debates Obama
Ron Paul says that the spying was "certainly not patriotic" and was a victory for terrorists.
[Image Source: AP]

Rep. Paul has sounded the alarm in recent years about what he views as growing collusion between the Republican and Democratic parties to funnel money to special interests, build a military complex, and strip Americans of their Constitutional freedoms.

He stated during the 2012 election, "Democracy isn't all that healthy in this country because if you're in a third party... you don't get in the debates... And if you ever come to the conclusion -- heaven forbid -- that the two parties aren't all that different, then what is left really?"

Sources: Ron Paul [on Fox News], Guardian [Snowden Q&A]



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As usual
By BRB29 on 6/17/2013 11:29:27 AM , Rating: 5
Politicians trying to catch more spotlights

Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.
The Congress shall have Power to declare the Punishment of Treason, but no Attainder of Treason shall work Corruption of Blood, or Forfeiture except during the Life of the Person attainted.

Unless he sent sensitive files to an enemy nation/terrorist organization, he cannot be tried for treason, considered a traitor, or a terrorist. The most they can do is call him a defector.




RE: As usual
By Nortel on 6/17/2013 11:41:48 AM , Rating: 1
Look at this guy, standing up for traitors. He must be a traitor too, get him!

Seriously, the USA needs to stop being the world police and spying on their citizens as if everyone were criminals.


RE: As usual
By kleinma on 6/17/2013 11:56:39 AM , Rating: 1
Regardless of whatever the truth to the entire thing may be, how would spying on your own citizens of your own country make you world police?

That and I think spying has just become a blanket word that can mean a huge range of things. It now has sort of the same meaning as the word "hacked". Which can be used in a sentence like:

"China hacked into US defense contractor computers and stole vital information about US space technology"

-or-

"OMG Someone hacked my facebook account when I forgot to sign out at the Apple store!!!"

Likewise we would consider "spying" now to mean:

The government records, transposes, organizes, tracks, and stores all electronic communication on all citizens which it can use at any time for anything it needs without any oversight whatsoever.

-or-

The government tracks electronic communications as needed in an effort to stop terrorism.

Now being outsiders, we can only go on what we are told, and I think the government will downplay everything, while the media will sensationalize everything, so I am thinking somewhere in the middle of all that is the murky truth to what is really going on. I guess the other thing is, as a tech person, I just sort of always operated under the assumption that any electronic communications I make can be intercepted, if not by my own government, then possibly by another, or by a 'real' hacker, or even by the companies whos services I use (google, MSFT, Verizon, AT&T, etc.)


RE: As usual
By Nortel on 6/17/2013 4:37:55 PM , Rating: 1
They are not tracking ONLY US communications, if someone calls into/out of the USA those are also tracked. Similarly with Facebook and the rest, they keep ALL records, not discriminating on only US based persons.

These 'terrorist' catching tracking systems can be thwarted by simply using regular mail or even encoding messages using SSL.

Freedom shouldn't come with an asterisk


RE: As usual
By GotThumbs on 6/17/2013 8:04:16 PM , Rating: 5
Guess it's safe to say now that the United States is....

NOT the freest nation in the world now.

Sacrificing citizens individual rights and privacy in the name of government protection of it's citizens.....yeah right.

The passing of time will truly show how little freedom we truly have these days.

Best wishes,


RE: As usual
By BSMonitor on 6/18/13, Rating: 0
RE: As usual
By MrBlastman on 6/18/2013 12:07:51 PM , Rating: 1
How is he a dousche? There is no melodrama here. What he speaks is the truth.

Believe otherwise and you deserve not one single shred of freedom.


RE: As usual
By MrBlastman on 6/18/2013 12:03:09 PM , Rating: 1
Patrick Henry said it best, many moons ago:

quote:

It is in vain, sir, to extenuate the matter. Gentlemen may cry, Peace, Peace – but there is no peace... What is it that gentlemen wish? What would they have? Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!


The NSA is those chains and we are all in bondage. He might have said this 1775 but they are still very relevant today. Oh how people forget the wisdom of the past, discarded for the new, progressive and "better" future.

Lest we never forget.


RE: As usual
By BRB29 on 6/18/2013 12:08:05 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
Guess it's safe to say now that the United States is.... NOT the freest nation in the world now.


Please name a nation in the world where you have more freedom than the US and not have to worry about being blown up or shot.


RE: As usual
By spamreader1 on 6/18/2013 2:25:35 PM , Rating: 2
I sometimes worry about being blown up or shot, seems to be more and more frequent in large gatherings.

Not knowing what other nations freedoms are doesn't negate the wearing away ours.


RE: As usual
By BRB29 on 6/18/2013 2:31:46 PM , Rating: 1
You have like 100x more chance of being in a fatal car accident. What's your point?

Should I worry about aliens and solar flares knocking out the entire world's electronics?

We do know what other nations freedoms are. It's called google whatever the hell you're looking for.

People flock to the US for a reason. They'll risk their life doing it. We're the only country with a high level of freedom and protection at the same time.

You just sound like someone's whose been protected your whole life and paranoid of the world. Please don't go into cities, it's probably a nightmare for you.


RE: As usual
By ClownPuncher on 6/18/2013 3:50:30 PM , Rating: 2
Finland.


RE: As usual
By Kel Ghu on 6/18/2013 7:40:53 PM , Rating: 2
Japan, Switzerland, Finland, Sweden, Norway, Australia, New Zealand, Singapore, Malaysia...

You have more freedom and civil rights in the vast majority of western european countries. And you feel safer in most asian countries, because people are inherently so much more peaceful even if they are poor.

Freedom and civil rights in the US are long gone! It's just an illusion that remains from the glorious past of the country! WAKE UP!


RE: As usual
By ClownPuncher on 6/19/2013 12:48:13 PM , Rating: 2
Singapore? No. They have more economic freedom, but definitely not more personal freedom.


RE: As usual
By Paj on 6/19/2013 8:31:54 AM , Rating: 2
Err... lol?

People have more likelihood of dying in the US from gun-related homicide than almost any other country in the West.

Perhaps a greater defense against 'terrorism' could come about by not organising coups or invasions in sovereign nations, and generally having a far less hawkish foreign policy?


RE: As usual
By othercents on 6/17/2013 11:44:44 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Unless he sent sensitive files to an enemy nation/terrorist organization, he cannot be tried for treason, considered a traitor, or a terrorist. The most they can do is call him a defector.


I guess you forget one thing. They never tried anyone in the court of law before performing a drone strike. However they would perform a drone strike in China especially since we are not at war with that country, nor have any basis for performing a strike on their soil.


RE: As usual
By BRB29 on 6/17/13, Rating: -1
RE: As usual
By lagomorpha on 6/17/2013 12:02:16 PM , Rating: 2
Read the rest of his sentence, it sounds like he accidentally forgot the word "not".

And yeah, a drone strike doesn't make sense as long as he's in China. Though an "accident" or "sudden heart failure" or even "polonium poisoning" wouldn't surprise me at this point.


RE: As usual
By BRB29 on 6/17/13, Rating: -1
RE: As usual
By wookie1 on 6/17/2013 1:10:07 PM , Rating: 3
"What I don't understand is why people think the US will just take out people. "

After the US just takes out people right and left in Pakistan, Yemen, etc, it becomes easy to understand why people think that the US will just take out people. A report was released showing that the gov't doesn't really know anything about 25% of the people it kills in drone strikes. They haven't been determined to be terrorists, no affiliation is known.


RE: As usual
By Skywalker123 on 6/18/2013 9:59:17 AM , Rating: 1
You really are stupid.


RE: As usual
By MrBlastman on 6/18/13, Rating: 0
RE: As usual
By Lord 666 on 6/17/2013 12:03:58 PM , Rating: 3
Agreed, never would happen. It would be considered an act of war on HK/China.

Hoping that somewhere in Hawaii, Snowden finally found proof Obama was not really born there.


RE: As usual
By Crazylocha on 6/17/2013 1:31:58 PM , Rating: 2
Agree Lord.

Easier to monitor and find where he stashed the data. Then a van suddenly pulls up to where he was walking down the sidewalk and ....

Kinda like what he was doing while stationed in Germany?


RE: As usual
By BSMonitor on 6/18/2013 10:33:41 AM , Rating: 2
LMAO, right, because the people in the new testament knew nothing of Hawaii when they dreamed up the anti-Christ crap... Everyone knows that people from Hawaii are too "chill" to be the anti-Christ.


RE: As usual
By wookie1 on 6/17/2013 1:06:53 PM , Rating: 3
You're a terrorist if the prez says you're a terrorist. Their "procedures" about how they would determine who to target is a closely guarded secret, and of course could be changed at any time at the whim of who is in charge.


RE: As usual
By BRB29 on 6/17/13, Rating: 0
RE: As usual
By BSMonitor on 6/18/2013 10:36:08 AM , Rating: 2
Not to mention the 600 members of Congress who are also informed before any drone strike. And the joint chiefs who must carry out the orders..

But thanks, wookie1, Special Fox News Correspondent for that edited version of reality.


RE: As usual
By BRB29 on 6/18/2013 12:09:46 PM , Rating: 2
people here have a distorted sense of reality


RE: As usual
By Skywalker123 on 6/18/2013 10:04:29 AM , Rating: 1
All that has to be done is Obama to give his OK. How would we know different? Your naivete is amazing, or are you pretending to be stupid?


RE: As usual
By BSMonitor on 6/18/2013 10:38:00 AM , Rating: 2
And inform the 600 members of Congress who have to approve it.. The joint Chiefs who have to execute the order..

But right, just the President's whim..

LMAO at stupidity.


RE: As usual
By MrBlastman on 6/18/2013 12:16:05 PM , Rating: 1
Sooo Congress authorized Vince Foster?

Stop living in fantasyland. Your tripe is getting really old.


RE: As usual
By BRB29 on 6/18/2013 12:36:36 PM , Rating: 2
There's a board to determine these things. It's not up to the President. The only power the President have is to approve the strikes. He does not get to say who gets the strikes.


RE: As usual
By MrBlastman on 6/18/2013 12:43:28 PM , Rating: 2
"If you scratch my back... I'll scratch yours."

That's how things really work in Washington right now (and many other places). Due process was tossed out the window quite a while ago. It is idealistic to think anything hasn't changed.


RE: As usual
By Jeffk464 on 6/17/2013 12:03:52 PM , Rating: 1
You go ahead and try it, he is in Hong Kong who has a perfectly competent air defense system. Plus the political ramifications would be absolutely overwhelming.


RE: As usual
By Rookierookie on 6/18/2013 1:21:18 AM , Rating: 2
Hong Kong has a garrison but no real air defense AFAIK. Of course, if you bomb one of the financial capitals of the world you can pretty much say goodbye to any economic recovery in the next five years.


RE: As usual
By Crazylocha on 6/17/2013 12:29:33 PM , Rating: 3
Unfortunately, he broke the cardinal rule...

From the bottom of one of the slides on the report from The Guardian today....

"Top Secret Strap"

As soon as he released that particular and all adjoining documents. Done. He is cooked. There is no where for him to hide now.

He signed the NDA's, now he violated them. Free game.

Wonder what his price tag is now?


RE: As usual
By Lord 666 on 6/17/2013 12:34:04 PM , Rating: 2
That classification was on a UK based document, not US.


RE: As usual
By Crazylocha on 6/17/2013 12:50:20 PM , Rating: 1
Americans database/access portal.

Still violated. Anything he has seen/heard/etc. qualifies once that document is signed. Level he was at, sure he has a few NATO's, ComPacWest, Australian, and on and on.

You could leap enough faith for the initial "patriotism" vs. big brother argument first time around.

This ...

No!

7 figures by the end of day, 8 by Friday?
Try to remember he was trained at a European Spy station.

Julain Assange he is not. He was alphabet soup. He knows the deal. You don't carry a gps locater beacon onto a nuclear sub without expecting to get flushed out a torpedo tube.


RE: As usual
By BRB29 on 6/17/2013 12:53:14 PM , Rating: 2
the crazy part in your name is right.


RE: As usual
By Crazylocha on 6/17/2013 1:28:00 PM , Rating: 2
From June 3rd..
"US Puts Bounties on West African Terror Suspects"

The State Department announced on Monday that it was offering up to $23 million for information leading to the locations of top officials
The single-biggest bounty, of up to $7 million, is for the leader of Boko Haram, a Nigeria-based group held responsible for numerous attacks

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/us-puts-b...

So what is Snowden worth among how many countries? How monitored was his I.P. for that Guardian Live interview today? Read some of the transcripts, he knows ;)


RE: As usual
By BRB29 on 6/17/2013 1:34:52 PM , Rating: 2
Snowden leaked a document about information many people already knew about for years.

West African Terror Suspects committed numerous terrorist attacks.

You're the only one crazy enough to even think it's the same.

You seem to quote whatever makes your point. Lol like the UK law when we're talking about the US.


RE: As usual
By Fritzr on 6/18/2013 9:20:53 PM , Rating: 2
Snowden -- Target of US covert intelligence
African Leaders -- Target of US covert intelligence

The difference being that the latter had a publicly announced bounty with instructions on how to collect.

A public announcement is not needed for Snowden
He has pissed off US covert intelligence
He has pissed off UK covert intelligence

Both have a history of erasing embarrassments. Mercenaries, informers and foreign intelligence agencies who suspect he might know something they wish to keep quiet will be quietly contacting appropriate agencies if they think they have a lead. Whether US or UK want to follow up is irrelevant, it will be assumed that they would like to put an end to the public statements.


RE: As usual
By Fritzr on 6/18/2013 9:14:41 PM , Rating: 2
Quiet removal of "problems" has been a CIA responsibility beginning in the days when the organization was called OSS.

It is rarely heard of in public notices since it is illegal, done by undercover 'assets', often using devices that "do not exist". And yes when the government has a chance to control the investigation, the official verdict is "natural causes" or "random killing, probably gang related" depending on how the operation was conducted.

The practice is known as wetwork.


RE: As usual
By Amiga500 on 6/17/2013 2:48:14 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Unfortunately, he broke the cardinal rule...

From the bottom of one of the slides on the report from The Guardian today.... "Top Secret Strap"

As soon as he released that particular and all adjoining documents. Done. He is cooked. There is no where for him to hide now.

He signed the NDA's, now he violated them. Free game.


Free game?

Devil's advocate - if the "top secret" document had pertained to an operation to torture US citizens for training purposes, would he have been justified in going public with it?

Just because something is termed illegal by the letter of the law - doesn't make it wrong. Unfortunately too many people cannot make the distinction. A very, very disturbing, not to mention disappointingly frequent occurrence these days.

Y'know, in certain parts of Europe in the 1940s, sheltering or aiding Jews was illegal. Does that make it wrong too?


RE: As usual
By Lord 666 on 6/17/2013 4:27:39 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Y'know, in certain parts of Europe in the 1940s, sheltering or aiding Jews was illegal. Does that make it wrong too?


Well said. Conversely, killing Jewish people was legal, but did that make it right?


RE: As usual
By althaz on 6/17/2013 7:46:23 PM , Rating: 2
He should have taken his concerns to congress, that's the sort of thing your congressman is for.

This is nowhere near as bad as torturing people.

That said, if he'd taken it to his congressman and nothing was resolved, he certainly should have gone public with it.

Also - and I'm not from the US - but isn't the illegality of what he did based on the NDA he signed? If I understand things correctly, an NDA is a contract and if what the NSA was doing was illegal, then wouldn't any NDA regarding it be invalid? That's how it works in Australia at any rate.


RE: As usual
By MrBlastman on 6/18/2013 12:32:15 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
He should have taken his concerns to congress, that's the sort of thing your congressman is for.


OH, yeah, that will work!

Hahahahaha. Take it up with the same buffoons that passed the crap legislation in the first place?

Yup, blow the whistle to them. Paint a target on your back before anyone on the outside knows what is going on. If you dissapear, nobody will care.

Stuff like the Patriot Act can't be fought from the inside when the inside made it all up to begin with. Not when our system is as broken as it is at the moment. Rewind 250 years ago and maybe you could have. Things have changed a little bit since then...

What the NSA was doing was not "illegal," due mostly in part to legislation passed by our Congress. That though is up for question because while Congress passed it, the principle and spirit of the act violates the 4th Amendment of our Constitution.

So, you have to then question which holds more authority on the matter, the act or the Constitution? I'd argue the Constitution.

See, unless the Constitution is amended to support a provision of our law, it should in every single case supersede any law passed later. You don't "tread" on the grand document. It is everything to our country and without it, we wouldn't be much different from anywhere else. Too bad most people forget this.


RE: As usual
By CubicleDilbert on 6/18/2013 12:41:35 PM , Rating: 2
Sure. The GESTAPO administration in 1940 was also put in power by the parliament and its operations were "not illegal" at all.

The problem is, what is legal? Something a Congress in power sanctions to be put forward or something that follows common wisdom?
The only thing that can control a government is the constitution. If Mr. Snowdon chose the constitution instead of current government laws, he should be praised a patriot and hero. Don't you think so?


RE: As usual
By MrBlastman on 6/18/2013 12:52:17 PM , Rating: 2
He is a patriot and a hero.

The problem is he doesn't get to choose the Constitution or current laws. They do.

We're the imbeciles that voted them in and gave them their power. We all get to suffer now because of it. The saddest thing is the majority of the populace won't notice these infringements and violations of the Constitution until they really hit home--and by then, it will be beyond too late.

The average American cares only about when they can buy their next cheeseburger and fries, if they can have a bigger television than their buddy and who's playing in the next football/basketball/baseball game. This system of crap values was put in place by who?

None other than the "progressives" that have sought and succeeded in grabbing everything. Don't even begin to say: "Oh, well the Republicans will save us from them!" They won't. They're no different than the other side--they've just got another hue on their coats with a slightly different stump they preach from--but when you get down to the meat, the stuff in the middle, they're all for the same thing: Power and money.

You or I's freedom means nothing to them in their struggle. We aren't free to decide in their eyes. They've already picked for us and every little thing we ignore by letting them pass it--steps us closer to that cliff.

They toss us more cheeseburgers when we start to shake our heads from our stupor to throw us back into a coma once more.


RE: As usual
By BRB29 on 6/18/2013 1:20:36 PM , Rating: 2
Thank you for confirming that it's ultimately the people's fault if corrupted politicians exist. They are good at speaking and lying. If you voted for them based on a good speech then you're a fool. Don't blame your crappy life because you decided to vote based on party affiliations, commercial ads, or race. It seems like everyone is running around with the latest smartphone but they're too dumb to use the search function.


RE: As usual
By MrBlastman on 6/18/2013 1:32:59 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
It seems like everyone is running around with the latest smartphone but they're too dumb to use the search function.


"But it looks good and will get me laid!"

-- Joe Schmoe, circa 2013

What a sad place we're in right now.


RE: As usual
By BRB29 on 6/18/2013 1:37:31 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
What a sad place we're in right now.

lol yea, it's a shame but at least it's very easy for me to get a high pay job due to the amount of retards out there screwing up basic interviews. I try to look at the good side of things.


RE: As usual
By CubicleDilbert on 6/18/2013 12:36:24 PM , Rating: 2
Exactly, if the operations taken by government officials were illegal, is the signed NDA still valid?

Here the US government says it is.
In 1948 they said it is not. Just as it suits them.

SS officers also signed NDAs for their work in concentration camps. The work was legal (by the regime laws) and treason was an immediate death penalty. That's why the public hardly kwew about those camps.

Then in the Nuremberg trials the US lawyers said, the NDAs were not binding because the whole camp operations were illegal.
Illegal to the US, not to the nazi regime. Still, the US officers accused and sentenced the nazi officers.

Now Mr. Snowdon who uncovered an "illegal" operation is accused of treason????
He broke the law???

The US constitution is per se above the law!
Governments come and go and have very different interpretations of legality. That's why the constitution was written, partly for controlling governments going legally amok, just as the present situation.


RE: As usual
By BRB29 on 6/18/2013 1:16:57 PM , Rating: 2
I love it when people compare the US to the Nazi concentration camps. Yes, because the US is ran by a mentally insane dictator that's trying to conquer the world, spread the "master race" and used the jews to blame.

Last I checked, Muslim terrorists are blowing up people throughout the world. The US government has yet to herd millions into concentration camps. I also noticed that most of what Obama is trying to do never gets passed because the GOP literally said "we will not support regardless of what it is". Yea it's all over the news and there's official government websites tracks bills. You can look up any of them and it has all the information you need.

Maybe you guys should check all information and events rather than selectively reading only Jason Mick's sensationalism.


RE: As usual
By roykahn on 6/18/2013 4:53:42 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Y'know, in certain parts of Europe in the 1940s, sheltering or aiding Jews was illegal. Does that make it wrong too?


Thank you for bringing some perspective into this debate. People often have a preconceived opinion about issues such as this and simply seek out the information to support their existing beliefs. It's highly unlikely that one can change the opinion of someone who is quick to judge. That's why a lot of the comments here rarely show anyone admit that they were wrong.

Whenever the US government goes after another power-grab, they consult with their lawyers to find legal loopholes or create confusion about what a law was meant to convey. I recall reading about how one judge, many years ago, said that "all men are created equal" did not apply to blacks because blacks weren't taken into account when the original declaration was written. Through legal acrobatics like that, those in power can justify doing almost anything.

Another example of making things legal for one's own benefit is how US officials claim that any males of military age within a strike zone are termed militants. That's done *after* the strike. Let's not forget about the biggest lie of recent history - claiming there were weapons of mass destruction in Iraq to justify a military take-over. Yet, we still see people believing what US officials spew our way via the media. Have we suffered from amnesia?

When an obviously illegal practice has taken place, say...like...hmmmm...TORTURE, then the president simply has to say "I’m a strong believer that it’s important to look forward and not backward" and all is forgotten! So all we need now is the president to look forward and Snowden will be forgiven. That's apparently how the law works.


WHILE...
By Dr of crap on 6/17/2013 12:46:49 PM , Rating: 5
While I don't think Mr Paul is worth a vote, he has hit the nail on the head -
"He stated during the 2012 election, "Democracy isn't all that healthy in this country because if you're in a third party... you don't get in the debates... And if you ever come to the conclusion -- heaven forbid -- that the two parties aren't all that different, then what is left really?" "

Politics in country is SOOOOOOO messed up the original writers would know it. ONCE the money has been removed from the ability to seek and stay in office, only then can we have something other than republican against democrats, the worst thing we have going!




RE: WHILE...
By Denithor on 6/17/2013 1:17:55 PM , Rating: 3
Remove the (special interest lobby) money, establish term limitations for all elected officials, remove their ridiculous benefits packages (put them back in the same Social Security boat with all the regular Americans) and you might, might stand a chance of straightening out this country.

Otherwise, it's simply a matter of time.


RE: WHILE...
By Oceanryder on 6/17/2013 1:26:38 PM , Rating: 2
I'd give Dr. Paul more street cred if he ever ran on the Libertarian presidential ticket. Gov. Johnson ran a decent campaign in 2012, and continues to drive conversation today without resorting to the constant grandstanding I see from Paul and other "libertarians" like him.

While third parties have few successful candidates, I do think they have influence on both the Republican and Democratic parties. For example, after the 2000 election the Democratic party went a bit greener due to Ralph Nadar's challenge. I think the Libertarian Party is having the same affect on the Republican Party.


Sensationalism much?
By Dribble on 6/17/2013 12:03:47 PM , Rating: 5
I am sure the American secret services have plenty of ways of making people "disappear", a drone strike over Chinese territory firing into heavily built up area does not seem the most likely somehow.

It's only politicians talking - any real spook would have already forgotten about him - his intelligence is already out, there's nothing to be gained by killing him. In fact killing him as an example to others just proves his point and turns him into a martyr.




RE: Sensationalism much?
By Jaybus on 6/17/2013 3:40:20 PM , Rating: 2
Exactly. Its all politician and media sensationalism. It is always better to use the old fashioned bullet to the heart, not only to be certain the correct target is taken out, but it to let everyone KNOW that the target is taken out. Missiles and etc. are messy and leave open the question of whether or not the target is still alive. Drone strikes are OK against a terrorist HQ, since its likely to get some key personnel, but they are not a very good option for taking out a very specific target in such a way that it is crystal clear to everyone that the target was killed.


RE: Sensationalism much?
By roykahn on 6/18/2013 5:13:17 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
It's only politicians talking
Yes, but you and many others are missing his point. Given the practice of using drone strikes to kill enemies of the US, then a strike on Snowden could be defensible. He's NOT actually suggesting it or saying that it will be done, but that things have become so crazy that it is a possibility and legally justifiable. He's pointing out the craziness, got it?


Treason?
By jimbojimbo on 6/17/2013 1:20:58 PM , Rating: 5
When we join the military we swear an oath and the oath isn't to keep secrets. It's to protect and uphold the constitution of the United States of America from all enemies foreign or domestic . Snowden is fulfilling his oath. We should be honored that he is willing to sacrifice so much to protect the people from those that disregard the constitution.




RE: Treason?
By cyberguyz on 6/18/2013 9:44:32 AM , Rating: 2
While I tend to take anything that Ron Paul has to say with a pound of salt.

If Snowden, as an NSA agent had leaked sensitive information, then he could indeed be committing treason by simply making America's secrets available to its enemies.

Because of the higher security levels required, Agencies such as the NSA do not swear the same oaths as the military. Because they are privy to much more sensitive information, pretty much any inside information they learn is treated as top secret. Also because of this, they sign contractual documents every year that absolutely restricts them from saying anything at all about what it is they do. In a government agency, breach of this contract could be very well counted as treason, and be punishable by a death sentence.

Now that said, even Saddam Hussein got a trial and was not simply executed out of hand. The use of drones or even black ops hit squads to take this guy out would very much violate this man's constitutional right to trial by a jury of his peers. Traitor or not, Snowden is a citizen if the United States and the U.S. constitution guarantees him a right to a trial -- even if it would be a formality.


RE: Treason?
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 6/18/2013 4:35:56 PM , Rating: 2
Don't confuse the military oath of enlistment with the security agreement people sign to work in the "Intelligence" world. Even US military members assigned to such duties have to sign the same documents. Intentional violation of those security agreements in any way will carry the loss of said security status and depending on how damaging it is, jail time. There's nothing "legal" about leaking classified information.


Snowden
By jhorri on 6/17/2013 1:39:06 PM , Rating: 2
I suspect he was selling his work product to the Chinese & the 'whistleblower' idea was dreamed up to try & cover his tracks. The Chinese security services (CSS) are now watching the Obama administration for any signs of a spine.

If Snowden did believe he was doing the 'whistleblower' thing, then he picked the entirely wrong place to land. If the CSS thinks Snowden has something they want, the CSS will make Ramsey Snow look like an amateur in getting it.




RE: Snowden
By Jaybus on 6/17/2013 3:50:18 PM , Rating: 2
Me too. In fact, I think the "hacking" by Chinese military is nothing but sensationalism too. Like every other nation, their spying is primarily done by insider traitors who are selling secrets for personal gain. It's simply the easiest and cheapest way to get info, regardless of the nations involved. This has always been the case.


RE: Snowden
By lennylim on 6/17/2013 5:27:29 PM , Rating: 2
I don't pretend to know the motives of this guy, but I am curious that, in his place, what country would you run off to. The Hong Kong government, backed by the Chinese government, can give the U.S. the middle finger when asked to extradite Snowden. UK will have him on a plane faster than he can blink. Many other countries will deport him, or insist he leaves the country. I really don't know what Russia would do. France or Switzerland, maybe?


Sen. Dianne Feinstein is more of a traitor
By HrilL on 6/17/2013 6:02:51 PM , Rating: 3
If she actually believe in the oaths people take while in government then she should be tried for treason for constantly creating, voting for and lobbying for legislation that is unconstitutional. She took an oath to uphold the United States constitution yet she thinks it is perfectly fine to create laws that are completely against the constitution. Talk about a hypocrite.

Snowden is an American hero and those who illegally expanded these questionable programs in the first place should be tried for treason against the people of the United States. Even the author of the patriot act never intended for it to be used to spy on everyone.




By roykahn on 6/18/2013 5:20:42 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Even the author of the patriot act never intended for it to be used to spy on everyone.
LOL! Can that quote please be used as one of the funnies seen at the bottom of dailytech articles?


NSA I trust you are watching this!
By holymaniac on 6/17/2013 3:23:30 PM , Rating: 2
Beware. Your days as the number one terrorist organization on the planet are numbered!(US Government) I stand with All whistle-blowers who reveal the corruption and evil of this empire calling itself the USA. This is NOT what the founding father intended. World domination and empire. There are MILLIONS of Americans who agree with me so you are in for a huge battle which you will eventually lose, even if you have all the guns and technology and unlimited funds. As we are on the side of truth and want an honest government that is on the side of GOOD, not evil.
And I realize there are millions of other Americans who are duped by your propaganda and think their government is on the side of good. You have done well in your deception strategies.
Come and get me. See who I am and what I stand for. Obama has betrayed our trust.




By cyberguyz on 6/19/2013 10:27:58 AM , Rating: 2
OMGWTFROFLMAOBBQ

Spoken like a true Al-Qaeda patriot.

LOLOL


Who should you insult when injured?
By drycrust3 on 6/17/2013 4:51:16 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
The Obama Administration's Attorney General (AG) Eric Holder and President Obama have already endorsed the use of drone death strikes to kill Americans in "extreme" cases where "national security" is threatened. Given the harsh rhetoric from both Congressional Democrats and Republicans (and the White House) some fear that Mr. Snowden could soon be targeted by such a strike, if his location is determined.

I think this is totally unrealistic hype.
If Obama did authorise the sending of uninvited military personel with aggressive intent into Chinese territory, illuminating a visitor to China with an infra-red beam with murderous intent, the invasion of Chinese air space with military air craft on active aggressive operational duties, the firing of a live military missile over a Chinese territory towards civilians, the death and injury of thousands of civilians, and the treating of this as all this as a joke, then that would be taken as a huge insult by the Chinese, and very likely to get a very fast, very aggressive response.
Remember how America reacted when Japan attacked the American fleet in Pearl Harbour? America reacted as though hugely insulted. One would expect China to find deployment of missiles and death of civilians in their territory as least as insulting, if not more so because it assumes America thinks of China as being a militarily weak country with a huge debt it owes America, which is not the case. The CIA list China as the world's third most powerful nation.
Not being an American, I just can't see how President Obama wouldn't expect to be forced to resign if he did authorise any sort of assassination of Snowdon, and I don't think President Obama would think he was worth that.
As it is, by his hiding himself away Snowdon does, by the very fact of his being incommunicado, silence himself, even if it is only temporarily. As with many other cases, sometimes the easiest thing to do is wait for Snowdon to make a mistake, and then arrest him.




By CubicleDilbert on 6/18/2013 12:45:46 PM , Rating: 2
The Chinese would not have to react by military revenge.

They hold so much in US Bonds and Debt obligations that they can, on a flip of a finger, render the US dollar to a worthless piece of colored paper. This would kill the US economy very quickly and efficiently.
The Chinese do not depend on the US, but the US depends on China.


interesting
By lagomorpha on 6/17/2013 11:57:58 AM , Rating: 3
Does anyone else find it a strange coincedence that Rep. Peter King looks a bit like Joseph McCarthy?




another Bachmann ?
By Hector2 on 6/17/2013 2:06:14 PM , Rating: 3
I like some of his ideas, but sometimes I see Ron Paul as a male Michelle Bachmann. He can get a little crazy




In a related story....
By chagrinnin on 6/17/2013 12:36:59 PM , Rating: 2
....Edward Snowden is now being housed in the middle of one of China's largest rice paddies.




In other news
By Azethoth on 6/17/2013 7:26:48 PM , Rating: 2
It is also possible that 5 hookers will walk into my place and blow me for free.




Genius
By Rookierookie on 6/18/2013 1:22:35 AM , Rating: 2
Sure. Bomb China with no provocation. Smartest thing I've ever heard.




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By Thin_red_line on 6/19/2013 3:01:49 PM , Rating: 2
I think you pretty much qualify for being a traitor if your giving a away classified government information, that can in turn, give outside forces insight into our defensive or operational capabilities. Thats pretty cut and dry betraying your country.....!




By techienate on 6/20/2013 10:52:25 AM , Rating: 2
I'm quite confident of that, since I have lived in Hong Kong myself for over a year. The population density is extremely high. From my experience, it is significantly more crowded than New York City (excluding Hong Kong's significant amount of preserved land/parks). It's also a lot more advanced and civilized than NYC. Imagine a drone strike on Penn Station or some crowded place like that. It's not going to happen, as it would be an incredible amount of collateral damage and lost lives in a country we are not at war with.

Also, for all you people saying he is in China: it is correct that Hong Kong is legally owned by China, but they have their own independent laws and rulers. It is actually very different from the mainland China.




Pardon Edward Snowden
Wow Mick...
By Creig on 6/17/2013 12:16:14 PM , Rating: 1
I think it's time you put your pen down and your tinfoil hat back on.




Bunh of Hypocrites
By petrosy on 6/17/13, Rating: 0
RE: Bunh of Hypocrites
By superstition on 6/20/2013 10:56:52 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
So Dick Chenney ..emphasis on the DICK.... says his home on Google Maps is an invasion of privacy but PRISM is ok.


Good point.


Crazy
By Ammohunt on 6/17/13, Rating: -1
RE: Crazy
By seraphim1982 on 6/17/2013 1:53:51 PM , Rating: 1
How is Ron Paul a kook?
He is just stating how it.....


RE: Crazy
By Ammohunt on 6/17/2013 2:26:19 PM , Rating: 2
Because the suggestion that the US government would kill Edward Snowden with a drone is just plain moronic and sensational. If they wanted to kill him they would have done it long ago in much cheaper and less fantastic ways.


RE: Crazy
By BRB29 on 6/17/2013 2:29:17 PM , Rating: 2
He's already in China, there's a million ways he can die from traffic accidents to "free speech".


RE: Crazy
By jRaskell on 6/17/2013 2:47:06 PM , Rating: 2
So there's nothing sensational about the idea that the US government would just kill Snowden without any sort of due process? It's just sensational that they'd use a drone strike to do it?

I miss the days when I used to think our Constitution actually meant anything.


RE: Crazy
By cyberguyz on 6/19/2013 10:41:21 AM , Rating: 2
Do you seriously believe that this kind of thing does not happen? Snowdoen does and he worked close enough to it to be very aware of what happens in these cases.

Snowden is not stupid. He is smart enough to to know that if he keeps low, he will quietly be disappeared and nobody would be the wiser. By staying as much in the public eye as he can, he makes sure that if anything does happen to him or his family, everybody will know it happened.

A agree a drone strike is like swatting a fly with baseball bat (chances are you gonna hit a lit more than the fly). More likely it will be farmed out to black ops squads to handle quietly and with no one the wiser as soon as it all quiets down.

The U.S. government doesn't need to launch multi-million dollar drones at guys like this when they can drop a few hundred thusand$ to one of their assassin squads to do the job quietly.


RE: Crazy
By BRB29 on 6/19/2013 11:08:36 AM , Rating: 2
so he ran from the US and work with the Chinese who has always been known to be 100x worse with government control than the US. Must also be why millions of Chinese try to migrate to the US every year because there's so much freedom over there.


RE: Crazy
By ritualm on 6/17/2013 4:47:56 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Because the suggestion that the US government would kill Edward Snowden with a drone is just plain moronic and sensational. If they wanted to kill him they would have done it long ago in much cheaper and less fantastic ways.

There's nothing "plain moronic and sensational" about the US government "threatening to" kill Edward Snowden with a drone. The risk is there, and it's a BIG one. Just consider how much due diligence did the US exercise when they sent Special Ops into Pakistan to kill OBL.

As in, none whatsoever...


RE: Crazy
By DougF on 6/18/2013 9:46:30 AM , Rating: 2
Let's see...

OBL: Responsible for planning and supporting operations against the USA and Saudi Arabia. Leader of a known terrorist organization. Sought after for years by every Western intelligence agency. Hidden by Pakistani elements sympathetic to Taliban and Al-Qaida. Chance of being hunted down and killed: 100%

Snowden: Not planning or supporting operations designed to kill anyone. Not leading a terrorist organization. Hiding in a nation that has an effective military and police force and is capable of finding/producing the individual. Chance of being hunted down and killed (let alone by a drone): less than winning the MegaMillions lottery.

Next ludicrous statement?


RE: Crazy
By BRB29 on 6/18/2013 12:14:41 PM , Rating: 2
Doug, this is logic. You will be voted down for that here.


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