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  (Source: ScreenRant)
NSA director fingers China in recent RSA intrusion and subsequent data thefts, U.S. oblivious its at war

Well, no more hemming and hawing about, it's official -- the Chinese hacked EMC Corp. (EMC) subsidiary RSA and stole the secrets of its proprietary security algorithm according to the chief of the U.S. National Security Agency.

I. A Grave Threat

U.S. Cyber Command leader and NSA director Gen. Keith Alexander made the information public on Tuesday in a briefing to the Senate Armed Services Committee, in which he testified, "I can't go into the specifics here, but we do see [thefts] from defense industrial base companies.  There are some very public [attacks], though. The most recent one was the RSA exploits."

China successfully used the information to hack into Lockheed Martin Corp. (LMT), a top U.S. defense contractor.  It is thought that China's remarkable progress in stealth fighter technology has been fueled by stolen U.S. Department of Defense Secrets.

Indeed a massive amount of intellectual property is being stolen from both the public and private sector by Chinese hackers, according to Gen. Alexander.  The U.S. has done precious little to protect its own economic prosperity, as it has been overwhelmed by the Chinese thieves.  One official in past commentary graphically described a cyberwarfare compaign of an unnamed nation state (suspected to be China) as "raping" the world.

Whether the Chinese government is perpetrating these attacks first hand, sponsoring third parties to conduct them, or merely condoning corporate interests to conduct them is almost as hazy as the sketchy financial ties the Chinese government holds to many of its private sector business (to be fair such allegations have increasingly been raised about the U.S. gov't).

But at the end of the day, the result is the same -- the destruction of the U.S. economy at the hands of the Chinese attackers.

RSA dongle
Spearphishing and an unreleased Flash exploit allowed China to hack the RSA standard and steal secrets from U.S. DOD contractors, according to NSA testimony.
[Image Source: RSA Security]

U.S. companies who speak out against the attacks are threatened by the Chinese.  The Chinese government is more than willing to ban U.S. firms that rock the boat, locking them out of the lucrative emerging market of almost 1 billion internet-active device users.

Complains Gen. Alexander, "We need to make it more difficult for the Chinese to do what they're doing.  Intellectual property isn't well protected, and we can do a better job at protecting it."

The security official shared interesting details of the attack.  He says the RSA hack used a zero-day (unreleased) exploit of Adobe System Inc.'s (ADBE) Flash player (somewhere the spirit of Steve Jobs is smirking) and used "spearphishing" (targeted phishing) to get an RSA employee to click on the offending executable, resulting on backdoors being installed on the company's servers.  Ironically, the Subcommittee hearings were livecast using Flash.

II.  Are the NSA's Cyber Command Efforts Really Helping?

Sen. Carl Levin (D-Mich.) criticized Gen. Alexander's commentary as just lip service.  He pointed out that a DOD pilot program to share malware signatures with defense contractors did not contribute significantly to new awareness, according to a Carnegie Mellon University study.  

Gen. Alexander responded, "Industry has a bunch of signatures, government has those too.  All of us need to work together to provide the best set of signatures."

He then countered that private sector communications efforts have been hindered by red tape.  He compares the situation to a bank robbery in which no one can tell the police.  He points to one incident in which the NSA detected 3 GB of data being stolen, stating, "I think that industry should have the ability to see these attacks and share them with us in real time.  It's like neighborhood watch. Somebody is breaking into a bank, and somebody needs to be in touch with the police to stop it."

surrender flag
Is the U.S. surrendering its future by allowing China to victimize its businesses and defenses with no response?  The hacks may go down in U.S. history as the nation's first unofficial surrender. [Image Source: Allison Nazarian]

On the upside Gen. Alexander says DOD efforts to establish a Cyber Command outpost at every major geographical and functional Combatant Command branch are coming along nicely.  He points to a major recent combat exercise at Nellis Air Force base as a sign of that progress.

Tensions between the U.S. and China are running high after the U.S. filed a World Trade Organization complaint against China for cutting off its supply of rare earth metals.  China argued the complaint was unfair and that it's all about playing by the rules.

Source: U.S. Senate



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We prosecute our hackers
By tayb on 3/28/2012 7:31:09 PM , Rating: 4
We prosecute our hackers instead of putting them to work. These guys are talented, even the young ones. Put them into an office building, pay them, and tell them to aim at China.

Deterrence. Problem solved.




RE: We prosecute our hackers
By ianweck on 3/28/2012 9:09:35 PM , Rating: 4
Hating the US is in fashion these days, even from some of our own people. I'm sure we'd be blamed for something if we did this. Poor China, being hacked by the big bad USA.


RE: We prosecute our hackers
By TSS on 3/29/2012 8:00:35 AM , Rating: 5
Heh well not to speak for the entirety of europe but this would actually improve your image, not degrade it.

Considering what the US spends on defence your cyber security is a joke.

The reason you'll get more hate though is because when the US goverment tries to fix anything they, somehow, always choose the wrong option. And i don't mean there are right/wrong options, i mean out of 2 wrongs they can still consistantly go for the worst option.

We all know in the end the US government will find some way to only slightly reduce the risk while monumentally reducing the rights of it's citizens.

That's why i'm skeptical about this article. It's the NSA complaining, the same NSA that has wiretaps at all ISP's since the 90's and is building multiple multi-billion dollar cybersecurity complexes, ment to listen into the entire internet and break encryption faster then ever before (and of course to spy on it's citizens even better then they do now).

And they still want more power? What more is there for the government to do? If businesses can't protect themselves, obviously their priorities are in the wrong place because that's not impossible.

Also lol @ whining about the chinese stealing your technology, but not wanting to pull out of the chinese market. Don't be greedy and then bitch when it doesn't work out....


RE: We prosecute our hackers
By Starcub on 3/29/2012 1:03:12 PM , Rating: 2
FTA it sounded as though the NSA is already capable of at least seeing the attacks in real time. It may also be able to stop them. However, I'm sure that the NSA operates under a strict set of rules required for a high security operation. I'm guessing that those rules can be bent and shaped for the right price.


RE: We prosecute our hackers
By ebakke on 3/28/2012 10:10:39 PM , Rating: 1
If by "office building" you mean prison, and by "pay them" you mean reduce their sentences for each successful breach... then by all means, I agree.


RE: We prosecute our hackers
By tayb on 3/28/2012 10:48:50 PM , Rating: 4
We have two options

1. Spend $40,000 - $50,000 tax payer dollars per year to keep them in prison plus whatever legal fees were spent to put them in prison and keep them in prison. Let them free at the end of their sentence and repeat again.

2. Spend all that money on their annually salary and utilize their skills in cyber defense of the United States or cyber warfare against any "enemies."

You guys that are pro prison crack me up. It's an enormous drain on our economy.


RE: We prosecute our hackers
By Reclaimer77 on 3/29/12, Rating: 0
RE: We prosecute our hackers
By tayb on 3/29/2012 12:28:08 AM , Rating: 4
Oh look, Reclaimer is here to go off the deep end. Thanks Reclaimer.


RE: We prosecute our hackers
By Reclaimer77 on 3/29/12, Rating: -1
RE: We prosecute our hackers
By Paj on 3/29/2012 7:12:42 AM , Rating: 5
Pretty sure he didn't say anything about releasing murderers. Unless I missed something?

Plenty of people working in cryptography and antivirus started out as hackers and phreakers. The vast majority of them grow out of it by the time they meet girls, start a family and need a job to support them. They quickly realise they have a unique skill set that pays handsomely.

The goal would not be to get the hackers to attack China, but to use their skills to find holes in the defenses, and use their expertise to shore them up.


RE: We prosecute our hackers
By Reclaimer77 on 3/29/12, Rating: -1
RE: We prosecute our hackers
By TSS on 3/29/2012 9:00:39 AM , Rating: 2
Well lets see, does the government build safes and safe technology, in order to improve the national security of monitary deposits? no.

"currency manipulation consultants" already exist and work in droves at the fed and treasury. Using the criminals would be a step up here.

You don't need the hackers to attack china. They don't have anything worth stealing anyway. What you need hackers for, is to continually attack domestic networks without causing damage, or as little as possible. You want them to hack the same stuff as the chinese hack, before the chinese hack it, so that you can secure it against them.

And secretly remove from prison? lol, are you so stuck in thinking in totalitarian terms? Just offer them a choice when they get caught. Either go to jail or sign a job contract of the same lenght. One has possibly electronic house arrest and monitoring software, the other ass rape. And incase you didn't know, the majority of hackers isn't exactly physically fit.

And build a super, super secure webpage and server. Put a single file on there containing contact information where to apply for the security job for the government. Then put out an open call to hackers to hack it, then wait for the applications to fill in. They won't cause damage and you've got somebody with already a base level skill, which can then be heightened through training.

But no, you're right. Lets send everybody to prison, it has worked so well in the past. Every person walking out of there is a shining beacon of reformed model citizen, so it'll be a far better option then anything... "productive".


RE: We prosecute our hackers
By Reclaimer77 on 3/29/12, Rating: -1
RE: We prosecute our hackers
By Paj on 3/30/2012 7:35:14 AM , Rating: 2
It's a pretty slippery slope. Theres a big difference between hacking and murder, and the two shouldn't be given equal weight as premises in an argument.

I would be surprised if someone working for the NSA right now didn't get discovered by doing something illegal.

I do get your drift though, and I'll grant that it could set a precedent.


RE: We prosecute our hackers
By SlyNine on 3/29/12, Rating: 0
RE: We prosecute our hackers
By retrospooty on 3/29/2012 8:32:22 AM , Rating: 2
"Oh look, Reclaimer is here to go off the deep end"

You compare this to Reclaimer going off the deep end? Well, I have seen Reclaimer going off the deep end.... He's done it in threads of mine... And this is not Reclaimer going off the deep end. ;)


RE: We prosecute our hackers
By Reclaimer77 on 3/29/2012 9:05:10 AM , Rating: 2
There you go again, throwing me under the bus. Oh the pain... :P


RE: We prosecute our hackers
By retrospooty on 3/29/2012 10:58:58 AM , Rating: 2
LOL... Sorry, maybe that just came out wrong.

Your argument here is sound and not off the deep end at all. The hippie/communist nightmares in your head must have been calm last night ;)


RE: We prosecute our hackers
By EricMartello on 3/29/2012 4:41:36 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
So if I murder someone in cold blood, can I get sent to the military instead of sitting in jail?


How are you making the jump from "hacking" to "murder"? Only one of those two is considered "wrong" on both a moral and social level by most people. Hacking is illegal but if wittle trayvon was hacked by a 1/2 white guy rather than shot & killed, I wonder if we'd have all the racist blacks protesting like we do now.

quote:
If I start a bar fight unprovoked and beat 3 guys up half to death, instead of jail time can I be sent to the MMA?


Another problem with this hypothetical question and your first one is that neither provide a service to the USA that only a small portion of the population can do. Just about anyone can be taught to shoot someone and perform basic military service...and many people can be trained as MMA fighters as long as they're in good physical condition, but the talent and skills required to crack complex code is not something you can "train" someone to do and it's not an ability that many people have.

quote:
You're talking about treating cyber crimes like a doorway to a great career opportunity, instead of a serious and punishable crime. Even paying them like $50k a year?


Not really - it's more like they'd be doing "community service" under close watch - a service which benefits the USA and makes the $40K per year taxpayer cost of feeding and housing them more palatable. Having them sit and rot in their cells is proving to be little more than a Pyrrhic victory for the USA as a nation.

Considering that most hackers do not single out individuals, the "crimes" they are accused of really don't have the social impact on people that something like assault or murder does. At worst you are inconvenienced by having to cancel some credit cards and open up new bank accounts - yeah man, that's harsh.

quote:
I don't think I'm "pro jail". I think if you commit a crime that warrants jail time, you should be punished for that crime and serve that sentence. Isn't that the whole point?


No, it's not the whole point. A modern society should always give people a chance to right their wrongs rather than taking a moronic "throw em all into jail and lose the key" approach which benefits neither the country nor the prisoner.

At a fundamental level, hackers typically do what they do just to see if they can do it. If that is their intent and they act without malice, then sentencing them to "national community service" as state-sponsored hackers is perfectly sound.

quote:
You've obviously never been a victim of ID theft or had your credit card number stolen by hackers and misused. If you had I'm pretty sure the idea of your tax dollars going to paying their salary, when they should be in jail after costing you years of pain and aggravation, disgusting.


Pain? No. Aggravation is the extent of it...and being a nuisance is hardly a justification to keep someone locked up. Credit cards will not hold you liable for fraudulent activity and neither will most banks.


RE: We prosecute our hackers
By mindless1 on 3/29/2012 9:24:30 AM , Rating: 2
Sorry but that won't work. Commit the crime, do the time, the deterrence and punishment has to be applied to those who break the laws or those laws become meaningless.

It would be cheaper to leave rapists and bank robbers out of prison too, shall we leave them free or let the bank robber out so he can rob a Chinese bank? NO!


RE: We prosecute our hackers
By Dr of crap on 3/29/2012 9:51:02 AM , Rating: 2
And that thinking is the reason prisons are over crowded. Prison time IS NOT a deterrent any longer. They comment the crime, spend the SHORT time in jail, and get out to comment their crimes again.

WE NEED to take out those that do the worst of crimes, and NOT leave them on death row for 10 plus years, we need to quit with idea that prisoners CAN'T do hard work and HELP out - like the chain gangs used to do cleaning up roads, prisoners DON'T need cable TV and fish on Fridays. Prisoners in Maricompa County is a good example of how they should be treated. THAT would be a deterrent!

And you've not heard of crimals HELPING out the cops after being caught? Many stories of them helping / getting a job helping cops after they do their time!


RE: We prosecute our hackers
By mindless1 on 3/29/2012 4:07:58 PM , Rating: 2
Prisons are overcrowded because people don't fear being there enough, because we've made them into resorts better than the standard of living the convicts had outside.

This is similar to what you wrote, except no, prisons are overcrowded because of the factor that more people commit crimes and more are caught. Getting the word out that certain crimes won't even be punished with more than a better job than a person already had, would merely create another incentive to being a criminal.


RE: We prosecute our hackers
By EricMartello on 3/29/2012 4:55:36 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Prisons are overcrowded because people don't fear being there enough, because we've made them into resorts better than the standard of living the convicts had outside.


Most people that know prison would probably fear it - not necessarily because they would be locked up but because of the other inmates they'd be sharing the space with.

Considering the limited options that a lot of people have, the average drug dealer or street thug is willing to risk jail time to survive within their environment.

The purpose of prisons was and should be to isolate "dangerous" people from the rest of society. Out of relative convenience they have become the defacto sentence for "crimes" ranging from having a bit too much weed on your person to violently raping and killing a houseful of children.

Many people who are being incarcerated should not even be there because they are not a threat to other people. They are overcrowded because our justice system lacks a range of punishments. They can either fine you or send you to jail - there isn't much in between.

quote:
This is similar to what you wrote, except no, prisons are overcrowded because of the factor that more people commit crimes and more are caught. Getting the word out that certain crimes won't even be punished with more than a better job than a person already had, would merely create another incentive to being a criminal.


Community service has always been a sentence that courts can pass on as a "punishment". With hackers it would be a lot like that - they would be performing a service to the country without the option to refuse. Who is the idiot who suggested they'd be getting paid a salary and have freedom to do what they want while serving out their sentence?


RE: We prosecute our hackers
By JediJeb on 3/29/2012 10:02:06 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Community service has always been a sentence that courts can pass on as a "punishment". With hackers it would be a lot like that - they would be performing a service to the country without the option to refuse. Who is the idiot who suggested they'd be getting paid a salary and have freedom to do what they want while serving out their sentence?


Best way to do that is to sentence them to a term of military service and after basic training put them into the Cyber Command unit making minimum pay with not option for promotion until they have served the equivalent of their jail sentence. If they step out of line there, they are subject to a military justice system which would not be so easy on them.


RE: We prosecute our hackers
By mindless1 on 3/31/2012 11:49:35 AM , Rating: 2
Many white collar criminals and teens might, but your average person in prison was around the same types of people all the time - which is why their lifestyle led them to prison. Certainly there are exceptions, but can we conceded that the % of repeat offenders is higher than the % of the population that goes to prison in the first place? If so, it seems to dispute your idea that people who know prison fear it more.

Prison should certainly isolate dangerous people, but how do you classify that? Is not a drunk driver a danger? Do (hard, addictive) drug dealers not contribute to the death and decay of lives and society in general?

Is it ok to throw a small stone at 1000 people while if you threw 1000 small stones at the same person, you might kill them? I argue that if we allow this, everyone will feel they can do so and ultimately, society decays and death still results while everyone is more miserable until death.

Prison is mean to preserve peace in society, not just prevent violence and murder, thus we have laws dealing with other crimes. If you don't like that, by all means vote for someone to make change but as things stand, prison time is associated with certain crimes and it is up to each citizen whether to do the crime and spend the time.


RE: We prosecute our hackers
By Kakao on 3/29/2012 7:17:59 AM , Rating: 2
The US already has plenty of hackers hacking everybody else. I guess all nations with enough resources and capability are doing the same.


RE: We prosecute our hackers
By Strunf on 3/29/2012 7:22:01 AM , Rating: 4
I'm pretty sure the US ALREADY does that, anyone thinking this is a one side "war" is fooling itself, the US used spies just as much as the Russian during the cold war and today hackers have the same job.

Heck wikileaks even exposed a few of the US "dirty" tricks and that's probably just the tip of the iceberg!


RE: We prosecute our hackers
By gorehound on 3/29/2012 8:19:08 AM , Rating: 2
Problem is in Washington DC.They are the Virus.


RE: We prosecute our hackers
By fic2 on 3/29/2012 12:24:20 PM , Rating: 2
The U.S. gov't has a declared economic war on anyone that has a job why should China be different?


RE: We prosecute our hackers
By Jeffk464 on 3/29/2012 2:30:59 PM , Rating: 2
China is destroying the US economy by more ways than just that. Currency manipulation, not respecting intellectual rights, forcing US companies to manufacture in China if they want to sell there. Nope China seems to be getting the advantage in every aspect of trade with the US. Is this China's fault? Nope, its our faults for letting them do it.


RE: We prosecute our hackers
By cbf on 3/29/2012 2:44:08 PM , Rating: 2
The hackers who got caught aren't the ones we want :-).

Seriously, the vast majority are just script-kiddies with very shallow understanding of the systems they're trying to penetrate.

The authors of Stuxnet are in a completely different league.


Unplug the damn connection!
By Rob94hawk on 3/28/2012 7:13:06 PM , Rating: 2
Maybe it's time to start unplugging China from the US network. Yeah I'm sure they can reroute but let China start pissing off other countries when they hack their way into their networks to get to ours.

If the situation is that serious as they say then it's time to start "accidentally" cutting cables. But this is just my opinion.




RE: Unplug the damn connection!
By Icon0clast on 3/28/2012 7:38:20 PM , Rating: 5
You seem to be some kind of Internetworking genius please tell us more!


RE: Unplug the damn connection!
By Reclaimer77 on 3/28/2012 7:44:14 PM , Rating: 1
Well it's better than my fantasy solution, which would be to "disrupt" China's Internet access for a few years via an air-burst EMP :)

(yes, that was tongue-in-cheek humor. don't be alarmed and freak out)


RE: Unplug the damn connection!
By mcnabney on 3/28/2012 9:25:34 PM , Rating: 2
Well, you make a good point.

If war with China is inevitable, we should do it now.

I am serious. Mostly because a war like that will be waged within a few hours.


RE: Unplug the damn connection!
By Solandri on 3/29/2012 4:09:13 AM , Rating: 2
I recall a quote from a Chinese businessman. Paraphrasing: "We are already at war with the U.S.; the U.S. just doesn't realize it yet. It's an economic war."


RE: Unplug the damn connection!
By FaaR on 3/29/2012 8:02:49 AM , Rating: 2
You're serious, but stupid.

China has nukes. Many nukes. Unless you want mutual (realistically though, that'd be global) annihilation, direct military confrontation with them should be avoided at all costs.

I'd think any dumbass would realize this, but jingoistic chest-thumping murricans never cease to amaze with their self-centered ignorance.


RE: Unplug the damn connection!
By Schadenfroh on 3/28/2012 9:57:54 PM , Rating: 5
Nigeria (and her many princes) need an air-burst EMP before China.


RE: Unplug the damn connection!
By fic2 on 3/29/2012 12:23:20 PM , Rating: 3
As long as they wait until after I help this guy that contacted me get his money out of the country I am ok with that. Otherwise I won't be able to collect the 20% of several million that he has.


RE: Unplug the damn connection!
By poi2 on 3/29/2012 12:40:57 AM , Rating: 1
better watch out for someone who holds EMP patents.
you might get sued!

patents patents patents sued sued sued

small company get sued from fat ass holding papers
royalties yada,yada,yada goes bankrupt
fat ass getting richer by sitting on a chair


RE: Unplug the damn connection!
By retrospooty on 3/28/2012 8:38:38 PM , Rating: 2
"You seem to be some kind of Internetworking genius please tell us more!"

ROFLMAO +1 =)


RE: Unplug the damn connection!
By Ammohunt on 3/28/2012 10:24:46 PM , Rating: 2
You mean cut the tubes?


RE: Unplug the damn connection!
By evolveNow on 3/28/2012 10:54:31 PM , Rating: 3
Joking aside, rob94hawk has a valid argument, critical systems like power grids, nuclear power plants, and defense department contractor servers should not be accessed externally through the internet at all. Does that solve all the security problems? Obviously not, but sure as hell will reduce the number of incidents and the potential scope of the attacks political or otherwise.

If it means employees have to be physically at their workplace to get anything done then so be it, employees being inconvenienced pales in comparison to the economic cost of a major power grid going down or national security secrets being stolen and/or exploited.


RE: Unplug the damn connection!
By Rob94hawk on 3/28/2012 11:32:51 PM , Rating: 2
EXACTLY! I know there's no way in hell you'd be able to stop all communication between China and the US. But why is the power grid hooked up to the WWW?! It's time to go old school. If there's a problem, make a phone call or keep important personel on staff or local if there's a problem.


RE: Unplug the damn connection!
By sviola on 3/29/2012 1:10:33 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
But why is the power grid hooked up to the WWW?!


Because there is the need to reroute power through different lines and control the amount of power generated by plants form a centralized place to prevent blackouts.


RE: Unplug the damn connection!
By JediJeb on 3/29/2012 10:13:22 PM , Rating: 2
That is true that such things are needed, but why can't the power companies run a secure network along those power lines which is not connected to the public internet at all? Sure it would cost some money, but they already have towers and right of way on which to place those cables. The biggest reason they are using the public internet is because they want to shave costs everywhere possible. If it cost $200 million to setup, that would only be a dollar extra on every persons bill once, do it for 10 months and you have $2 billion for the project. I would pay an extra dollar on my bill for a year to fund a secure network for the power grid. Before the internet they were running the system on leased dedicated phone lines, so it isn't as if this would be such a radical idea.


By Captain Orgazmo on 3/29/2012 8:20:00 AM , Rating: 2
Dang right! Piss on a spark plug too, if we have to.


RE: Unplug the damn connection!
By fic2 on 3/29/2012 12:25:43 PM , Rating: 2
A friend of mine that is a consultant has already started doing this. He has setup blacklists of ip addresses from various countries on his clients networks portals.


I'm sorry I forgot....
By YashBudini on 3/28/2012 8:17:59 PM , Rating: 3
Why does China have most favored nation status?




RE: I'm sorry I forgot....
By retrospooty on 3/28/2012 8:39:35 PM , Rating: 3
becasue in spite of "destroying our economy" they support our economy in a major way.


RE: I'm sorry I forgot....
By ianweck on 3/28/2012 9:08:12 PM , Rating: 2
So we find someone else to make our widgets.


RE: I'm sorry I forgot....
By retrospooty on 3/29/2012 7:56:32 AM , Rating: 2
yes, but who would loan us another trillion every year?


RE: I'm sorry I forgot....
By Ringold on 3/29/2012 9:45:53 PM , Rating: 2
Well then, how about be stop spending a trillion more a year then we can afford? With a small budget surplus, asides from rolling over the maturing debt we can't afford to repay yet, we can ignore the foreign element of the investors in our debt.

Somebody just has to break the news to some welfare queens, and grandma, that their years of not saving enough for their own future might sting them a little.


RE: I'm sorry I forgot....
By ianweck on 3/28/2012 9:10:56 PM , Rating: 6
Because companies and politicians value money more than their nation.


RE: I'm sorry I forgot....
By YashBudini on 3/28/2012 11:05:09 PM , Rating: 4
Bulls-eye!


RE: I'm sorry I forgot....
By Ringold on 3/29/2012 9:37:27 PM , Rating: 2
MFN status doesn't mean much, basically just that we have a 'normal' trade relationship with them. It imparts no particular benefit.

On the other hand, World Trade Organization membership SHOULD be different. They're supposed to be playing by the rules mutually agreed upon by all members, but obviously are not. I give Obama credit for this much.. at least he's raised some cases at the WTO.


This is frustrating
By ianweck on 3/28/2012 9:15:01 PM , Rating: 2
How many more articles like this will I have to read before I learn that companies and our government have learned to tighten up their networks? Doesn't anybody even care about this?




RE: This is frustrating
By TETRONG on 3/28/2012 10:31:58 PM , Rating: 4
I warned about this years ago on this very forum.
The scary thing is that you still don't seem to realize the back doors have been left open on purpose!

Think about it, most Americans are in debt and they have quadruple the number of Consumers over there!

You have to start seeing the bigger Corporate picture

On February 13, 2007 a New Mexico State Court found Sandia(Lockheed Martin) Corporation liable for $4.7 million in damages for the firing of a former network security analyst, Shawn Carpenter. Mr. Carpenter had reported to his supervisors that hundreds of military installations and defense contractors' networks were compromised and sensitive information was being stolen – including hundreds of sensitive Lockheed documents on the Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter project. When his supervisors told him to drop the investigation and do nothing with the information, he went to intelligence officials in the United States Army and later the Federal Bureau of Investigation to address the national security breaches. When Sandia managers discovered his actions months later, they revoked his security clearance and fired him.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandia_National_Labor...

They want this to happen


RE: This is frustrating
By bodar on 3/28/2012 11:06:30 PM , Rating: 2
Interesting theory... but why?


RE: This is frustrating
By stardude692001 on 3/29/2012 12:55:52 AM , Rating: 2
Payoffs probably. I would find it easy to believe most people would accept money to do this, hell if you offered the job of "spy for china" with a million dollar salary I think at least 1 in 50 would jump at the chance.

No one really believes a war with china is going to happen so they see no harm in directly or indirectly selling our secrets.


RE: This is frustrating
By bug77 on 3/29/2012 4:38:13 AM , Rating: 2
Same reason some thought they must sell the A-bomb to USSR?


RE: This is frustrating
By TSS on 3/29/2012 8:38:42 AM , Rating: 1
My turn! i posted that years ago on this very forum.

The war on terror is comming to an end. You can no longer afford large standing armies across the world. Don't get me wrong, it'll still be much larger then any other nation but the wars in iraq and afgahnistan are ending. In general people are getting tired of the middle east.

This does not suit your governments needs. Your government needs a foreign enemy to focus on in order to keep people afraid and occupied. This will allow them to stay in power even though they're corrupt to the bone and everybody knows this.

But it can't be just any enemy. It has to be akin to a ghost. Something you can conjure up at any time, say it was the enemy, and rally the troops behind you. The enemy itself doesn't really need to exist. Just think about it - Osama bin laden might never have existed as we knew him. Yes, the person existed, but the leader of al-qaida? The most dangerous man in the world? the brains behind all those attacks? I'm not sure. There isn't a whole lot of evidence that can be traced back to credible sources for that.

Now imagine Anonymous as the new Bin Laden. Anybody could be the enemy. They could strike from anywhere, at any time.

Cyberterrorism is the ultimate replacement for the war on terror. Instead of hunting combatants dressed as civilians, you'll litteraly be hunting ghosts. You're hunting a IP, rather then a person.

And the average citizen (of the world) doesn't understand computers at all. A "cyber" terrorist is even more foreign to them then a real terrorist. Never mind explaining to them how some guy on a computer in china caused a blackout in iowa.

Cyber terrorism folks. Called it years back. What i don't know is what they will call this new war. "the war on cyber terrorism", while appropriate since terrorism is already engrained in the modern mind, sounds a bit windy.


RE: This is frustrating
By Starcub on 3/29/2012 1:27:03 PM , Rating: 2
The US actually helped Saddam Hussein come to power by giving him weapons of mass destruction which he used against targets in both Iran and his own country. The US seems to have a history of establishing its future enemies and then turning on them at their convenience. It easy to see why they would want to do this to a national power, but a lone guy on a computer? I think there is something different going on with cyber-terrorists.


RE: This is frustrating
By AntiM on 3/29/2012 9:00:28 AM , Rating: 3
Sounds familiar:

The Phoenix memo is a letter sent to FBI headquarters on July 10, 2001 by FBI special agent Kenneth Williams recommending the assembling of a worldwide listing of civil aviation schools. Williams, then stationed in Phoenix, Arizona, was at the time investigating students at some of these schools for possible terrorist links.

According to Williams, the purpose of the memo was to advise the Bureau and New York of the possibility of a coordinated effort by Osama Bin Laden to send students to the United States to attend civil aviation universities and colleges. Phoenix has observed an inordinate number of individuals of investigative interest who are attending or who have attended civil aviation universities and colleges in the State of Arizona.
The recommendations outlined by Williams were ignored or put aside due to other concerns. David Frasca was the head of the FBI's fundamentalist terrorist unit at the time and was considered to be responsible for not making these recommendations known to other relevant investigative units. Frasca was promoted by the Bush administration after the 9/11 attacks


RE: This is frustrating
By Gondor on 3/29/2012 8:50:49 AM , Rating: 2
Precisely, why even put valuable secrets online anyway ?


So China has hacked US banks?
By defter on 3/29/2012 3:18:42 AM , Rating: 4
And forced them to issue a lot of subprime loans to create banking crisis?

The article didn't actually mention how China is "destroying US economy"...




RE: So China has hacked US banks?
By TSS on 3/29/2012 8:45:14 AM , Rating: 2
That's because "destroying the US economy" is rhetoric for "give use more power".

Which is in the article:

quote:
I think that industry should have the ability to see these attacks and share them with us in real time. It's like neighborhood watch.


I read that as "please let the NSA control and monitor private networks. it'll be safer".


I'm doing my part...
By Cr0nJ0b on 3/28/2012 10:25:17 PM , Rating: 2
pfblocker -- all asia + all Africa = inbound(deny)




RE: I'm doing my part...
By swizeus on 3/28/2012 10:50:00 PM , Rating: 2
Hopefully just you. Doing that across US and hosting company will surely suffer, and there will be more unemployment and more riot there....


The US is very gullible
By masamasa on 3/28/2012 11:13:48 PM , Rating: 2
"Tensions between the U.S. and China are running high after the U.S. filed a World Trade Organization complaint against China for cutting off its supply of rare earth metals. China argued the complaint was unfair and that it's all about playing by the rules."

When it comes to China the US government really doesn't get it.




RE: The US is very gullible
By Cheesew1z69 on 3/28/2012 11:40:59 PM , Rating: 2
They just don't get it period...


good plan by china
By stardude692001 on 3/29/2012 12:00:19 AM , Rating: 4
why spend hundreds of billions of dollars on defense R&D when you can spend a few tens of millions on stealing defense secrets.

America is #1 in the world not due to numbers and only partially due to training mostly it is because we are 3 generations of technology ahead of almost everyone else.

I have thought for a while that we waste to much on defense R&D and not on things like effective armor for our troops or education at home. This just proves we have wasted trillions of dollars.




Neuromancer!
By Tunrip on 3/29/2012 6:24:17 AM , Rating: 2
The picture for this post is the title screen from the game of Neuromancer!

I love that game! It's always been one of my all-time faves! :D




RE: Neuromancer!
By Tunrip on 3/29/2012 6:25:48 AM , Rating: 2
...Oh, I guess it was probably the cover to some of the books too, but I played the game before I read the book. But still... :)


Hmm
By Makaveli on 3/29/2012 8:51:18 AM , Rating: 2
Was this all worth it just for cheap labour so these companies can have their profits margins and the exec's get their yearly bonuses.

China is making all of you bend over and take it up the ass and they are doing it with a smile and no lub!




RE: Hmm
By 1prophet on 4/1/2012 4:37:35 AM , Rating: 2
Exactly,

corporations crying about getting fleeced by China are no different than the Johns crying to the police how the prostitute they have been visiting all these years gave them std's while stealing out of their wallets.


Time to erect the great firewall
By masamasa on 3/28/2012 11:07:40 PM , Rating: 2
Time to erect the great firewall of America, the opposite of China's, designed to keep intruders out. I wonder how much information is going to get stolen before the US realizes it is too late.




All those money wasted on NSA
By cz on 3/29/2012 12:18:38 AM , Rating: 2
Probably that is the real reason that it is destroying our economy -- we spent too much on these useless agencies that know only to raise flags (red or white, and all colors in between) but know nothing about doing something useful.




By soloburrito on 3/29/2012 2:13:22 AM , Rating: 2
Any actions that set that back will set off another global recession. Look at the financials of major corporations. Typically, they all show huge growth in the Asia-Pacific region and it usually outpaces North American and European demand.

It really is a case of unspoken surrender. We can't afford a conventional or trade war with China. America is going to have to share the stage in the next few decades. The one thing we can look forward to is, hopefully, as China modernizes, their society will move away from Communism and more towards western culture and politics.

Everything tends to normalize out. Let's just hope we don't have to endue the swings to extremes for too long if at all.




just as soon as i saw the title
By bhmInOhio on 3/29/2012 6:22:52 AM , Rating: 2
I knew who the author was.




RE: just as soon as i saw the title
By FaaR on 3/29/12, Rating: 0
By shadowamazon on 3/29/2012 9:12:38 AM , Rating: 2
Good Job penning another useless, sensationalized article.
You ask the NSA about cyber security and cyber war???
If you would to ask NASA about the need for space exploration. NASA will tell you, the lack of funding to space exploration is also killing our country. All interest in science and engineering will wane as the result; Not only it is the downfall of great American it may be the end of the world as we know it.
Here is an idea for your next article.
McDonald commented today that eating hamburger is good for the US people and economy. I am sure you can surprise a few more people with that article.




LIVE FREE DIE HARD
By seraphim1982 on 4/2/2012 10:16:35 AM , Rating: 2
Didn't those clowns learn anything from John Maclean.....
Yipppe yee kai yeahhhhh MF'r.

Seriously though, as someone said, for the amount of money the US pisses (Afghan, JSFighters, Healthcare) away you'd think they would invest some money into Cyber-Defence. Clearly, some people in the government aren't thinking.




By anandtech02148 on 4/3/2012 12:10:49 AM , Rating: 1
China accused the West of stealing intellectual properties such as gunpowder, stirrup,hundreds of organic herbal medicines still use today to cure cancer,flu virus,malaria,unique ink chemical that power china's vibrant ceramic economy, and countless of economic sabotages. The hackers-economic thieves were dressed as catholic priest in the name of some holy god from the desert.




Yea, Blame China for everything
By chick0n on 3/29/12, Rating: 0
Like a Child got his toy stolen
By swizeus on 3/28/12, Rating: -1
RE: Like a Child got his toy stolen
By ianweck on 3/29/2012 12:52:50 AM , Rating: 2
What does this even mean?


"There is a single light of science, and to brighten it anywhere is to brighten it everywhere." -- Isaac Asimov














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