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Print 42 comment(s) - last by The Raven.. on Jun 1 at 10:50 AM

Companies betting on iPad-like products from Dell and HP

Apple has had a pretty good week. They've become the most valuable tech company with their $221.1 billion market cap that beat Microsoft's $219.2 billion, and Apple shares closed down $1.17 to $244.05 while Microsoft's fell $1.06 to $25.01. What Apple CEO Steve Jobs might not be so happy about is the tough audience of some media firms he faced in Hollywood who voiced some bitter opinions about the iPad not having Adobe Flash Player available. 

Media companies like NBC Universal and Time Warner made statements concerning upcoming touch-screen tablet devices from Dell and Hewlett-Packard that will more than likely carry Adobe Flash Player, and made it clear that "they won't retool their extensive video libraries to accommodate the iPad."

Apple and Big Media have been battling this Flash war in hopes of reaching a negotiation at some point. Jobs has cited several reasons as to why he won't use Flash, such as Adobe Flash products being 100 percent proprietary, security issues, Adobe's request to be a third-party developer to create apps, and their lack of support for touch-based services. 

Instead, Apple uses HTML5 as their video software, which is the next major revision of HTML and aims to reduce the need for proprietary plug-in-based rich Internet application technologies, such as Flash. At the Hollywood conference amongst media firms, an Apple spokeswoman noted, "We believe in open standards like HTML5."

Media companies mentioned that software products like Google TV, which enables viewers to watch online video on their big-screen TV's, will cripple Apple's ability to dictate terms to media firms. In addition, media companies stated that switching to a Flashless iPad would be expensive to reformat and that it's "not be worth it because Flash dominates the Web."

While there are a lot of media firms that are pro-Flash, companies like Disney, CBS, Fox News and CNN have apps, shows and clips available using HTML5. While they only offer a handful of clips or shows, and some to a limited extent, it's some support, which was clearly not offered by those who criticized Jobs in the Hollywood conference.



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some innacuracies......
By zmatt on 5/28/2010 7:28:50 AM , Rating: 5
To begin Apple being the biggest tech company was shot down in the main article. I don't know why it is being reprinted when it is clearly wrong. Second posting stock values like that is misleading. Many companies split at a very low set level intentionally, like Intel I believe is splits whenever it gets over $25. Microsoft clearly has split more than Apple.

As for the the article itself, the debate has been said many times before. Apple doesn't like flash and is stubborn, everyone else likes flash. Jobs gives silly, pointless, or hypocritical reasoning, everyone laughs. It's getting old. I wonder how long it will take for better platforms to dethrone Apple's silly gadgets now?




RE: some innacuracies......
By karielash on 5/28/2010 7:52:26 AM , Rating: 2

I don't like flash... but I don't like Apple much either..


RE: some innacuracies......
By zmatt on 5/28/2010 8:58:31 AM , Rating: 4
Did the iSheep rate me down? Admit it already Apple can't force the world to abandon a nearly ubiquitous standard.


RE: some innacuracies......
By reader1 on 5/28/10, Rating: -1
RE: some innacuracies......
By semiconshawn on 5/31/2010 10:44:01 AM , Rating: 1
What it proves is that Apple no matter how much they want too cant cram shit down everyones throats. Btw this Apple bigger than MS bs is so stupid. Market cap means exactly shit. There are were times when MS was bigger that Exxon in Cap and yet Exxon was pulling 15 billion a quarter in profits and has and order of magnitude more assets. So which company is more "valuable"? Apple is riding a nice bubble it will pop and the stock and all important MC will come back to earth.


RE: some innacuracies......
By Smilin on 5/28/2010 10:31:32 AM , Rating: 3
I think you got downrated for this as it makes no sense at all.

quote:
Second posting stock values like that is misleading. Many companies split at a very low set level intentionally, like Intel I believe is splits whenever it gets over $25. Microsoft clearly has split more than Apple.


The article stated that Apple now has a higher market cap than Microsoft. Market cap already includes variables like number of shares, share price, and splits.

The argument that Apple has a higher value than MSFT is indeed true. The more important (and contrary) point though is that MSFT is still making a lot more money than Apple...for now.


RE: some innacuracies......
By Ard on 5/28/2010 11:26:09 AM , Rating: 4
Except as of yesterday they didn't. AAPL had the highest market cap for a day. He shouldn't have been down-rated for pointing out a clear inaccuracy based on outdated information.


RE: some innacuracies......
By zmatt on 5/28/2010 11:28:52 AM , Rating: 3
Actually their market cap went down shortly after the article was posted. I was also pointing out that comparing the price of individual shares between companies is not a valid way to determine value. Microsoft is as big and even bigger in some ways than Apple, its individual share prices are lower because the stock has split more often. Apple has chosen not to split as much, probably to keep the buy in on shares higher.


RE: some innacuracies......
By mellomonk on 5/28/2010 10:28:02 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
As for the the article itself, the debate has been said many times before. Apple doesn't like flash and is stubborn, everyone else likes flash.


Though I do think Apple stance is a bit frustrating, you are seriously delusional if you think everyone 'loves' flash. Sure it works, and it is everywhere, but the day it dies many a hardware company will smile in satisfaction. Apple is just trying to push the inevitable a little to soon.

NBC and Steve have played chicken before, and kissed and made up. NBC's content will likely disappear from the iTunes store causing them some sleepless nights. Direct sales make real $ compared to streaming ad revenue. NBC will bluster and blow, Steve will follow in kind. Meanwhile iPhone4 and iPad sales will continue to reach ever higher. Come September and NBC will stroll out on stage at the annual iPod/iTunes event and pucker up. Streaming H264 as well as Flash. Content is important, but NBC doesn't have enough hits to even make Steve nervous.

quote:
I wonder how long it will take for better platforms to dethrone Apple's silly gadgets now?


Well, that has been debated for long, long time now. To date nobody has dazed the champ let alone knocked him down. The Android wave may swamp him eventually, but with his one two punch of marketing and content, along with a $50 billion combination in reserve, I think a wounded but re-energized champ would be more then a threat to retain his belt for a while longer. In short, don't hold your breath.


RE: some innacuracies......
By reader1 on 5/28/10, Rating: -1
RE: some innacuracies......
By OUits on 5/28/2010 12:20:39 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Google will produce their own phones (not re-badged)


Doubt it.

quote:
their own computers


Never.

quote:
and sell them through their own stores.


Already tried and failed.


RE: some innacuracies......
By 67STANG on 5/28/2010 12:25:31 PM , Rating: 5
I know you're just trolling, but I guess I'll bite...

Apple's products sell well, because of their cult-like fanboys that will buy anything with an Apple logo on it-- not because of the proprietary business model. In fact, they would likely be doing much, much better if they were as open as Google.

Google will not follow Apple's model, at least, not for the near future. As Apple used to be the small guy that encouraged fighting the fat cats, they have now turned into self-proclaimed fat cats themselves-- and quite litigious ones at that. Apple is giving itself a bad reputation. Even the fanboys at Gizmodo who only drink Apple kool-aid are starting to get fed up with Apple.

No Sir. You are incorrect about their business model. While it has made them money to this point, they are running low on "revolutionary products".

Their tablet is an underpowered netbook that doesn't have half the capabilities, but costs twice as much.

Their yet to be released iPhone will launch a month or two from now, and will already be behind the curve of phones that are already out.

Face it. Apple isn't even much of a computer company anymore. They make half of their money selling cellular phones, music players and suing people.


RE: some innacuracies......
By frobizzle on 5/28/2010 12:43:55 PM , Rating: 1
I gotta get some of whatever reader1 is smoking! That has to be some primo shit!


RE: some innacuracies......
By bruce24 on 5/28/2010 10:45:06 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
To begin Apple being the biggest tech company was shot down in the main article.


She was accurate when she said "Apple has had a pretty good week. They've become the most valuable tech company with their $221.1 billion market cap". She didn't say some generic biggest, or highest revenue...she said most valuable based on market cap. If you don't like the metric, fine, but Market Cap is metric used by many to measure the value of a company.

quote:
Second posting stock values like that is misleading.


Based on your reply, it seem to mislead you. Sure it would have been clearer if she did the math for you, but her point, which I thought was obvious, was Apple backed into the top tech in terms of market cap by going down around a half a percent on a day Microsoft was down around 4%.


RE: some innacuracies......
By killerroach on 5/28/2010 12:39:49 PM , Rating: 2
Put simply, market capitalization = share price * number of shares outstanding in the company. A split doesn't change the company's size at all.

Also, the irony of trying to point out an inaccuracy while at the same time misspelling "inaccuracies" in the title of your post is just delicious.


RE: some innacuracies......
By symbiosys on 5/30/2010 12:25:38 AM , Rating: 2
Very well said mate.


Apple's Loss
By 2uantuM on 5/28/2010 10:10:40 AM , Rating: 5
For $500, I would want my device that provides the "ultimate browsing experience" to at least display my web pages, whether Apple likes Flash or not.

Just another reason why I won't buy an iPad.




RE: Apple's Loss
By vapore0n on 5/28/2010 10:14:16 AM , Rating: 2
You should have known what you were getting into before spending $500+ on such device


RE: Apple's Loss
By 2uantuM on 5/28/2010 10:43:51 AM , Rating: 2
Not sure who you're talking to.


RE: Apple's Loss
By reader1 on 5/28/10, Rating: -1
RE: Apple's Loss
By Smilin on 5/28/2010 10:34:27 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
The lack of Flash on Apple's products doesn't hurt them because Flash content is all crap.


Bwahaha. Just keep telling yourself this you delusional little Jobs sycophant.


RE: Apple's Loss
By Wolfpup on 5/30/2010 5:34:47 AM , Rating: 2
Thumbs up to this ^

If iPad/iPhone were a real computer, this couldn't even happen, as we'd just install Flash ourselves. As it is, Flash is needed. Period. We all run across it all the time, every day, for all sorts of things. Just try removing Flash on your PC and see how long you can stand it. I did...and it's painful.

Should Flash be used? It's debatable...but either way, it doesn't hurt performance or stability much on real computers, and probably does lead to things we wouldn't be seeing sites do otherwise.


RE: Apple's Loss
By Lanister on 5/28/2010 1:28:30 PM , Rating: 2
Their loss, this would be perfect for my wife to play her stupid facebook games on and I would go buy one right now if it supported flash. Instead I get to watch her use my puter to farm instead of me being able to frag noobs in cod.


RE: Apple's Loss
By Cheesew1z69 on 5/28/2010 9:20:55 PM , Rating: 2
Buy her her own PC?

/me rolls eyes


RE: Apple's Loss
By B3an on 5/29/2010 2:11:36 AM , Rating: 2
You know, you could just get her a fully capable netbook or laptop for the same price?
Not only will it run Flash but can do a ton more things and have better hardware.


By HaB1971 on 5/28/2010 6:52:58 AM , Rating: 5
quote:
an Apple spokeswoman noted, "We believe in open (by open we mean we dictate to you what experience you have on our products as they are never really yours) standards like HTML5."


Fixed it for you Apple lady...




By maevinj on 5/28/2010 10:09:51 AM , Rating: 2
Can this get a 6?
Seriously, Apple doesn't like flash because it's Proprietary?


By The Raven on 6/1/2010 10:43:59 AM , Rating: 1
So appearantly Apple zombies just rate people down to silence those who disagree with their religion instead of engaging in productive discussion. If you rate me down, man up an explain yourselves! I get rated negative without ONE reply? Really?!


By brshoemak on 5/28/2010 1:41:18 PM , Rating: 2
open as in standards vs. open as in Apple


By T2k on 5/28/2010 9:59:02 AM , Rating: 4
Because I am, really am - same boring false BS ov er and over again.

And it's one thing if clueless, Apple-paid scribblers in WSJ or NYT keep doing the footwork for Apple - ie repeating the same lies over and over again hoping it sinks in for the less tech-savy -, I don't understand why more decent tech sites like this cannot distinguish between news and PR garbage.

This was a 3-4 liner like X and Y companies (known media brands owned by them come here) will ditch iPad if there's no Flash support. One more sentence about the importance of this symbiosis and over. No need for all the BS about everything the writer suddenly recalls WRT Apple - that's the lowest-grade tabloid junk style where you cannot find any journalism or even half-decent journalist.




By T2k on 5/28/2010 10:23:59 AM , Rating: 1
PS; it's not so much about this piece, I'm just kinda annoyed by the fact that newbie writers immediately eat up this pathetic PR push.


By Denigrate on 5/28/2010 1:46:58 PM , Rating: 2
Apple hands out freebies to these "writers" to buy their vote.


non-proprietary my left foot
By Jammrock on 5/28/2010 11:45:02 AM , Rating: 4
quote:
Instead, Apple uses HTML5 as their video software, which is the next major revision of HTML and aims to reduce the need for proprietary plug-in-based rich Internet application technologies, such as Flash.


Here's what gets me the most about this comment. Apple only supports H.264 for HTML5 playback. H.264 is MPEG-4 based and is therefore wholly based on MPEG-LA controlled patents. That makes their implementation of HTML5 video even more proprietary (an estimated 1300 patents cover just MPEG-4), more limited (they support only one CODEC), and potentially more costly for people to use or develop for (the MPEG-LA is not known to have fair licensing practices).

On top of that, Flash is more than just video it is a content engine used for everything from slideshows to games. There is no standard in HTML5 that can replace the on-the-fly vector and raster rendering that Flash and Silverlight can do, and Apple certainly doesn't have a solution for that which is readily available.

This is why Android will end up as king of the hill unless Apple and Microsoft can pull their heads out.




NBC and Time Warner will cave...
By kmmatney on 5/28/2010 2:42:46 PM , Rating: 1
My guess is that they will both cave and convert their format. First, it can't be that difficult, and second - they will really be missing out. The iPad made it world debut with long lines everywhere. Your not going to see that from the Dell, HP or Google tablets. NBC and Time Warner don't have anything special.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/BUSINESS/05/28/apple.ipad....




By dark matter on 5/30/2010 5:46:28 AM , Rating: 2
Dude, having a long line on opening day is not a viable metric. Come back in a year and if the iPad has 30-40% of the home PC market then we shall see. Given the number of PC's that can stream flash compared to those that can't, Apple are small fry.

Just because it is new, and just because it is Apple wont affect the grey guys in the grey suits who control the purse strings when the look at the overall figures and decide if the ROI is worth it.


By The Raven on 6/1/2010 10:50:11 AM , Rating: 2
You don't have to visit those sites. If enough people stop using it they will change their site. Flash was pretty much the only viable option for 'flashy' site creation back in the day and has become a standard on the interwebs. It is just like Windows. Pretty much the first to market gets the large market share until a better alternative comes along (HTML5).

It is the fact that Jobs is flat out saying we won't allow our users to choose to use flash that doesn't sit well with me.


Oh the irony...
By Wolfpup on 5/30/2010 5:28:31 AM , Rating: 2
Steve Jobs, here's a clue. You do not get to complain about Flash being proprietary, when you're talking about excluding it from a product that's just as proprietary, AND ALSO COMPLETELY CLOSED. In fact the only reason Adobe can't just let users add Flash themselves is the completely closed nature of the device. Flash itself certainly doesn't have the same restrictions.

I don't know what to think, but it sure reflects poorly on Apple. Either Jobs really doesn't get it, or he just thinks most people are too stupid to understand the idiocy of blathering on about Flash being proprietary while selling a proprietary and closed platform.




Flash Is Dead - Move on
By macthemechanic on 6/1/2010 12:34:07 AM , Rating: 2
Most of us block it anyway. I don't want it using my battery power pushing content and controlling my mobile's processor. I should bill back those advertisers using my battery power. Begone with it and let's move on.




some inaccuracies
By blamb18 on 5/28/2010 1:43:40 PM , Rating: 1
Gee smatt, you must be the smartess person in the world. You know everything!




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