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NASA presents two ideas for life on the moon

At a time when most large space programs are discussing plans for possible lunar missions and bases, NASA recently outlined some basic plans it has for moon exploration.  During the American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics conference in Long Beach, Calif., NASA engineers gave attendees a glimpse into what the U.S. space agency is working on.

Instead of housing astronauts in small habituation modules, astronauts will likely live in one of three large habitats.  The larger living areas logistically make more sense since hardware and modules wouldn't need to be sent up each trip.  Although nuclear power was one of the more popular methods to help power the housing location, Doug Cooke, a NASA official who is the head of the lunar research group, claims solar power should be the power method used.  

Also presented was a pair of rovers that will allow astronauts to cruise up to 600 miles in a pressurized environment.  The pressurized cabin will allow astronauts to travel long distances wearing more comfortable clothing instead of a spacesuit the entire trip.  Engineers expect the new rovers to be close to the size of the unpressurized rovers that were used during the NASA Apollo mission.

The U.S. space agency hopes to send astronauts to the moon sometime in 2020, though several issues must be fixed before that can happen.  The major roadblock is that the U.S. space agency has to create and deploy a new generation shuttle before seriously planning out lunar missions.

Russia, China, Japan and India all have space programs that have high hopes of moon exploration in the next 25 years.  Along with individualistic plans each space program has, 14 international space agencies agreed earlier in the year to work together.

The private sector also showed strong interest in lunar hotels and bases in the past, though nothing concrete has been announced recently. 

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w00t time!
By lompocus on 9/22/2007 3:57:36 PM , Rating: 1
YAY! So good to hear more about space stuff.

Now, where are you European or Jappanese or Russians or Chinese with your advanced projects? Afaik we're the only ones planning permanent bases everywhere.

RE: w00t time!
By Nightmare225 on 9/22/2007 4:04:16 PM , Rating: 2
I can just imagine the United States military having bases on the moon... Scary thoughts.

RE: w00t time!
By Noya on 9/22/2007 4:10:36 PM , Rating: 3
You know that's why we want it lol.

RE: w00t time!
By FITCamaro on 9/22/07, Rating: -1
RE: w00t time!
By psychmike on 9/22/07, Rating: 0
RE: w00t time!
By Ringold on 9/22/2007 9:25:07 PM , Rating: 3
Last I checked, the American people have never been able to vote on a ballot what cloak-and-dagger activities the CIA decides to carry out. They've also seemed to have learned their lesson; not too much has been revealed lately, though I heard something about an attempted coup against Chavez. As far as that goes, if we'd succeeded and assasinated him before he'd acquired his dictatorial power it, as it turns out, would've been a huge boon for the future of Venezeula. Whose to say how it would've went elsewhere?

We also tried that whole "splending isolation" crap in the 1920s thinking the rest of the world was full of big boys that could take care of themselves. We got stuck with Stalin after not properly supporting the nationalists in the Russian civil war, and allowed Europe to first provoke and then cower before Hitler, then had to save their asses. If we'd done the "amoral self-interest" interventionist thing, and even lost 100,000 men in Russia in their civil war, we'd of possibly prevented, what, 40 million Russian deaths and by extension 70 million Chinese ones? Not to mention the whole expense of that whole Cold War thing.

And now today, Africa is a basket case. The worlds ability to regulate itelf isn't promising. The UN can't do anything much more complicated or risky than handing cookies out to school children with much success. When someone else comes along that can do what we do then I'll vote for standing down; it's our tax money, after all, policing the world. Until then, we make mistakes. Lets all get over it, move on, and be happy that at least somebody tries.

RE: w00t time!
By smitty3268 on 9/22/2007 9:31:51 PM , Rating: 1
You're actually proving psychmike's point - you can argue that the interventionist policies are good, but the original poster was wrong. Leave us alone and we might or might not leave you alone.

RE: w00t time!
By Ringold on 9/22/2007 9:39:25 PM , Rating: 3
Er, I made some incorrect assumptions on death count.

Rummel, 1990, estimated around 52 million dead under Stalin, and while he doesn't break it down by cause, perhaps 10m I'd guess could be attributed to the 100+ German divisions Russia had to hold up.

For China, their civil war cost 2m, plus another 72m under Mao.

78+2+52-10= 122 million dead because American's wanted "splendid isolation".

Extreme example? Maybe. I am, after all, assuming communism in China wouldn't of got off the ground without Russia being an influential beacon. Worth consideration at any rate.

RE: w00t time!
By smitty3268 on 9/22/2007 10:05:55 PM , Rating: 1
You're making a number of extremely large assumptions, like no one dying if we had done something. For all we know, even more people could have died. This kind of speculation isn't worthwhile, because it would have changed history so much there is no possible way to figure out what would have happened.

RE: w00t time!
By Shining Arcanine on 9/22/2007 11:08:27 PM , Rating: 1
The same can be said about your assumptions of what would have occurred if the United States did not intervene in other places.

RE: w00t time!
By smitty3268 on 9/23/2007 12:34:58 AM , Rating: 2
Who said I had any assumptions? It's possible it would have saved a great many lives, I'm just saying there's no way of knowing one way or the other.

RE: w00t time!
By Ringold on 9/23/2007 11:57:33 AM , Rating: 2
I challenge that assumption on the grounds that the Tsars, at least, didn't kill millions on a whim, and neither did the KMT, as feeble and corrupt as it may have been itself. We allowed a lesser evil to be replaced by a much, much darker one.

RE: w00t time!
By JonnyDough on 9/23/07, Rating: -1
RE: w00t time!
By Xietsu on 9/23/2007 5:52:42 PM , Rating: 2
In government, there are such things as lesser evils. Usurpation by way of revolution, unto a refined resolution, is an exacting mode for circumventing calamitous conception. Markedly though, must it be mentioned that rarely are the right men around to make the most of moral manifestation. Your maintaining that a manifold of monumental management over the masses would be a mission not in mire is surely only that which best expire.

The issue is that, whenever there was this "harmonious peace", there were vast, predominant majorities living in filth, squalor, and under a superfluously proletarian quality of life. This is what is bound to happen when you centralize executive capacity. By sustaining sectored nations, each with their own political lead, there is very moderate assurance that there won't be an oligarchic, aristocratic class of rulers.

Though, it also ought be made clear that you can never ensure a government won't cede to moral disenfranchisement. There will always be a manner in which one will be able to bargain another unto indignant mishandling. Whether it's through the facets of a charlatan (deluding by way of ideology) [say, communism, Nazism {which is a very frail relation of evolution's concepts into a social spectrum}, and capitalism]), superficiality (money, earmarks on power, trade), or terrorism ("those extremists are going to compromise our way of life, quick, let us [the government speaking here] do it for you so we can protect you", or the rather unconventional "your family will be killed unless you submit to subjugation").

Though there may be that one man who is of sturdy ethical pedigree, it matters not when the existing infrastructure is already poised to exist only as the hub for sin's poisonous compromise. The only pale solution we can attempt to muster is oversight, and even then you can't have the confidence for conscientious competence, for the supervising agency would so too require such inspection. I suppose it is of ill-regard to productivity to but speak of this concept so destined for corrupt captivity.

Man can never attain an embodiment of civilization meant to so retain of that which isn't vain. Never will there be the resurgent strength and motivation in men to revitalize and acclimatize in a manner so wise as if to negate any penetration by actions the dignified only despise. However, I think it is grossly frail in foresight to attribute fear to relate religion, and thus, wars. The prevailing purpose for conflict is that of power -- prudently proceeding to progress it, prune it, or prolong it.

It would also be ill-advised, I feel, to denote man being unable to comprehend his own self. Might it be said that we aren't exquisitely aware of the biological neurology behind which we establish our own principles and pervading perseverance, but beneath this all, the idea of man, and, maybe for quite few, understanding man is simple. We are a biological organism capable of conceptualizing due to our capacity for linguistic communication. Our nature is drawn by compulsion and impulse. Your particular DNA composition illustrates your tendencies in response to any impetus of the environment.

But with heavily overlain significance must you come to extend your cognizance upon our being creatures with command over conceptualization. This one thing is what allots us our expanse in free will and what guides our innate draw. And with that, most commonly fall to seeking contentment for their carnal whims. But as circumspect, chivalrous members of man must we come to cherish this and realize in such fervency that never should one's opportunities be squelched by another's disregard for this very thing.

RE: w00t time!
By rudy on 9/23/2007 2:17:03 PM , Rating: 2
While Communism may not have happened something probably would have happened in China, when you do not take care of common people to at least a basic level eventually they have had enough and take over killing everyone they associate with their problems. Not that your point is not valid it has basis but things were at a boiling point over there.

RE: w00t time!
By Ringold on 9/23/2007 3:15:57 PM , Rating: 2
Not that your point is not valid it has basis but things were at a boiling point over there.

Woot! A fair response!

You're right; the Mao thing might've been a flip of the coin. Without Russia's guiding hand, Mao might've well just done it himself regardless. If not Mao, then a warlord of sorts from within the KMT.

I'll stick by the Cold War & Stalin-related death count, though. The Tsar was, after all, the Queen's cousin! I can't imagine kin pointing ICBMs at one another. As I understand it, they all even spoke english amongst family. A far cry from those who replaced the Tsars. Don't know much about Admiral Kolchak, but, well, safe assumption 99.99% of any other leader would've been better than Stalin.

RE: w00t time!
By maven81 on 9/24/2007 1:55:57 PM , Rating: 2
"I'll stick by the Cold War & Stalin-related death count, though. The Tsar was, after all, the Queen's cousin!"

It would have been too late to intervene by the time of the civil war. Nothing unites a country like a foreign invasion. Had troops been sent to help the whites, even people who didn't particularly care about either faction would have stood up against them. It certainly would have been too late by stalin's time, as he had pretty much secured public support by then (through devious means, but that's besides the point). It is Lenin that should have been destroyed. The country was in such a disarray at that point it could have went either way.
(The Tsar wasn't exactly popular by then either, having ordered the troops to shoot civilians). Stupidly Russia had a chance to become democratic way back in the 19th century, but the Tsar that wanted to bring fourth such reforms was assasinated. A huge mistake.

RE: w00t time!
By wordsworm on 9/22/2007 10:31:29 PM , Rating: 1
News break: Chavez is a popular president. Iraq never had a chance to vote for or against Bush II. In the 20s, the US was not a world power. It was only after WWII with the weakened European powers trying to recover after their bloody contest. The US didn't get deeply involved in Russia or China because they're simply too big and powerful. As much as people point out that China was invaded by the Japanese, the truth is that Japan's penetration was very shallow, and China's got this thing about time: it doesn't put a rush on things. It knows that time is always on its side. It's been around for more than 4,000 years. Finally, the US was not a major factor in deciding the war in Europe. Russia is probably the single most significant thing that really stopped the Germans cold in their tracks. Of course, it didn't hurt that England was intercepting Germany's plans and was thereby able to know what they were doing before they started doing it. England and Russia won that war, not the US.
Africa is a basket case.
Why is it people still refer to Africa as if it's a single unit, a single country? Last I heard South Africa is doing ok. You probably just think of Darfar and Somalia and attribute those problems to the entire continent.

The US can't even regulate itself. It still exercises slavery in several of the southern states. The prison system forces many blacks whose only crime is drug use or dealing to do hard manual labor. More people murder each other in the US every year than died on 9/11 (16,692), not to mention the nearly 100,000 rapes. Maybe once the US manages to fix its own problems it can be a moral leader and show the world how it's done.

RE: w00t time!
By kyp275 on 9/22/2007 11:34:02 PM , Rating: 3
It still exercises slavery in several of the southern states. The prison system forces many blacks whose only crime is drug use or dealing to do hard manual labor.

slavery? are you serious? oh, and it's ok to be drug dealers now? what are you smoking?

while there are definitely still racial inequality in the states (and the rest of the planet, in case you didn't notice), I'd hardly call that slavery. So unless you have some proof that there are blacks-only prisons in the south doing slave labor all day long, please go sit in a corner and STFU.

More people murder each other in the US every year than died on 9/11 (16,692), not to mention the nearly 100,000 rapes.

you, sir, fails at manipulating numbers. You're comparing a single incident to the annual accumulation of an entire nation of more than 300 million, which is meaningless to say the least. More people are also killed in the US every year from automobile accidents, smoking, drug use, cancer and too many other different disease to list, so what's your point?

RE: w00t time!
By wordsworm on 9/23/07, Rating: 0
RE: w00t time!
By kyp275 on 9/23/2007 4:37:32 AM , Rating: 2
you're talking as if cocaine are the only drugs that drug dealers sell :rolleyes:

he only reason the US passed laws against things like cocaine was to protect the more profitable pharmaceutical companies

I guess that explains why cocaine is illegal in almost all countries in the world.

wait, nevermind, it doesn't

simply in pursuit of happiness? wow, aren't you applying that phrase is a rather liberal sense? You're talking like as if cocaine is a harmless drug that doesn't lead to increasing addiction, brain damage, assorted serious medical conditions and death.

the right to pursuit happiness is just like the freedom of speech, it has limitations. A serial killer goes on his rampage and kills dozens of people in pursuit of his happiness, should that be legal? and please stop with your over-sweeping generalizations, hardly all drug-related inmates are black, and most deserve to be where they're at.

While I hardly think that everything in the system are just fine and peachy, what you're saying frankly is way too far to the left for me. I'm no fan of either extremes, and like they say, the truth is usually somewhere in the middle.

RE: w00t time!
By JonnyDough on 9/23/07, Rating: 0
RE: w00t time!
By lompocus on 9/22/2007 11:36:23 PM , Rating: 1
Chavez is NOT a popular president. Draining oil money and giving it to poor is a noble cause. Giving hte poor soybeans and rotten bread with maggots is NOT!

In the 20s we were a world power. The damn monroe doctine is one thing that scared you off: We will destroy any country that interferes in the americas.

Russia didn't stop the germans, WE did. WE suppplied Russia. WE gave them missile technology. WE gave their soldiers food, guns, weapons, etc.

The very fact that you are talking about the US so much is that we ARE a world power; the only world power that matters. China hasn't been around for 4k years. The damn ROCK has been there. They have been there for 80 years, when the 'peoples cultural revolution' thing took place. A place that kills people in tianemen square and that rolls over protestors in tanks is NOT an example of a world pwoer or a moral authority. A place, like Russia, where its president can control the media and where its president can dissolve the whole government whenever he feels like it is NOT either a power or a moral authority. And England? England came no where close to winning the war on its own. Sure, it could hold its island indefinitely, but reclaim Europe? Not without US. Could Russia endure the battle against Germany? Not without US and OUR supplies.

Could YOU be alive today, like you are, talking this shit about the US, your savior? Certainly not if we had maintained an isolationist viewpoint and stayed out of it.

You aren't from the US. We have no slavery. The prison system forces ALL prisoners to live there, and if so required, to work labor. Easy labor. Damn easier than the field workers.

More people murder each other in Europe, which has a SMALLER population the all of the United States, each year (~40-100 thousand), not to mention many, many rapes, many, many CHILD SEX/PORN criminal acts, among many other obscenities.

Yea, S Africa IS doing ok. The thing is, it isn't getting involved in other african countries, which I believe we should push them to.

RE: w00t time!
By maven81 on 9/24/2007 2:07:50 PM , Rating: 2
"Russia didn't stop the germans, WE did. WE suppplied Russia. WE gave them missile technology. WE gave their soldiers food, guns, weapons, etc. Could Russia endure the battle against Germany? Not without US and OUR supplies."

You're way out of line on that one. Your arguement basically boils down to America saved the world... no wonder other nations consider us arrogant! Yes we provided aid, however it was far from crucial. They developed the missile technology such as the katuysha rockets. They designed the T-34, arguably the best tank of the war. More importantly they put up a superhuman effort. None of cans of SPAM would have mattered had they not fought to the last. You are bellitling the loss of millions upon millions of lives.

RE: w00t time!
By FITCamaro on 9/23/2007 12:18:19 AM , Rating: 1
News break: Chavez is a popular president.

Bush would be too if he gave the people tons of free shit (wait we already do...)

Chavez is one of the worst dictators in the world right now. Personally I say we attack his ass next. There's plenty of documentation of him giving money to terrorist cells who act against the US. And he's slowly locking down control of his countries media so only pro-Chavez stations are allowed. But hey, buy Citgo gas and keep supporting him.

RE: w00t time!
By Ringold on 9/23/2007 12:00:57 PM , Rating: 2
Well.. it's a rather twisted view, I admit, but I'd rather we let Chavez roll on for another few years, perhaps a decade. It's been too long since a communist has taken power and utterly annihilated an economy on the world stage for all to see, and I think the worlds forgotten and needs to see it all happen again from the very start. We've seen the populist rise and the early consolidation of absolute power, along with the early weakening of the economy; now we need to watch as it all falls apart. In other words, sacrifice the well-being of some people there for the good for the world.

RE: w00t time!
By Muirgheasa on 9/23/2007 12:27:49 PM , Rating: 1
Chavez is one of the worst dictators in the world right now.

Sorry, what now? He's democratically elected, pursuing policies which benefit 70% (or more) of the population and he's one of the worst dictators in the world? What exactly has he done that's so wrong?

Perhaps it's that he decided the US doesn't have the authority to ban trade with Cuba, so he went ahead and traded with them?

Or maybe it's just that all your news is horribly biased against any country with so much as a whiff of communism about them?

Seriously, what has Chavez done that isn't in the interest of the majority of the citizens of Venezuela?

Bush would be too if he gave the people tons of free shit (wait we already do...)

So what, is he or isn't he? Either way, Bush went against the wishes of a pretty large chunk of the population of the US, and against the express orders of the UN, in invading Iraq. Not only that but journalists are no longer allowed to ask him about the reasons for the war. Anyone who can't accept that that is a clear admission of guilt is in denial. The US pursues selfish policies, and acts as "world police" only because it suits the president's rich friends who own weapons manufacturers.

So, anyone interested in explaining to me how Chavez (who enjoys enormous popularity, far exceeding any recent president in the US) is one of the worst dictators in the world?

Yes, I know he rules by decree, but that is quite different to being "one of the worst dictators in the world".

Oh, and tell me again why the US keeps wanting to invade people? Why should you "attack his ass next", except because having a war would keep the president's friends getting richer.

Incidentally, I'm only saying what is painfully obvious to anyone who has access to non-biased media on a day to day basis.

RE: w00t time!
By Ringold on 9/23/2007 12:51:28 PM , Rating: 2
What exactly has he done that's so wrong?

Read the news, comrade, read the news.

He's curtailed free speach, any economist can see the economic collapse coming from a mile away, and most American's view absolute power as, well, not very good. Meanwhile, he projects an image of being for the little guy when in reality he's already begun to create an wealthy, priviliged new upper aristocracy of anyone blessed with his friendship. He's no friend of the poor, and when they start going to stores to get food and find none because Chavez will take the typical left-wing approach and "outlaw" inflation and demand that store owners stock goods regardless of anything else, they'll figure it out.

As for invading, nationalizing US corporate owned assets is worthy of at least a cruise missile barrage. If not that, then we could, at the very least, hand US Citgo assets over to our offended corporate interests.

I recommend The Economist myself.

RE: w00t time!
By Muirgheasa on 9/23/2007 5:03:40 PM , Rating: 2
Of course Venezuelans would say that it's actually US corporate stolen assets. As for free speech, does that extend to inciting open rebellion? Given the phenomenally biased stance in the US media (was it Pat Robertson who called for his assassination?) I really wouldn't take what you may have read about him not being for the poor too seriously. Why is it that the US can't just accept that capitalism isn't the only way? Why, for example, is there still a trade embargo on Cuba?

I in no way claim to know everything there is to know about South American politics, but anything Chavez can do has to be better than what the US would have done there (CIA death squads targeting coca farmers in Peru anyone? Despite the fact that coca has been grown there for over a thousand years, the US reckons that killing coca farmers is an acceptable way of ridding the US of drugs problems).

As for economic collapse, we'll see. And if you're right, I'll buy you a beer (at least, I would if... Well, you get the sentiment).

RE: w00t time!
By lompocus on 9/22/07, Rating: 0
RE: w00t time!
By FITCamaro on 9/23/2007 12:25:57 AM , Rating: 2
I'm all for isolationism right now in the US. Let the UN run the world for a while.

Sorry trying not to laugh at that thought...The UN. ...Making decisions...Having the balls to do anything...Without the US actually being the one doing it.....ROFL!

Hope the French enjoy getting taken over again. There could be a war of China vs. Japan and the French would somehow loose it.

We'll just perfect our missile shield and sit behind it. Let the Middle East nuke itself. Let China invade Russia and Europe. Why should we care? We're the dirty, stupid, ignorant, imperialist Americans who can't do anything right.

RE: w00t time!
By smitty3268 on 9/23/2007 1:01:26 AM , Rating: 2
I think it's pretty unlikely the French would ever get invaded again, seeing as how they have nuclear weapons.

We'll just perfect our missile shield and sit behind it

If only it were that simple. The stupid thing is about 50 years away from being ready, and by that time who knows what kind of countermeasures enemies could come up with to get around it.

Let the UN run the world for a while.
Sorry trying not to laugh at that thought...The UN. ...Making decisions...Having the balls to do anything...Without the US actually being the one doing it.....ROFL!

No, it's pretty clear the UN would pretty much let things go without taking any action. That's not really what it was designed to do anyway. It was created to stop WW3 from ever happening, and it's done a pretty good job at that. To be fair, there are a lot of peacekeeping missions going through the UN using European troops that the US isn't involved in - we usually send money and leave the actual troops to be provided by other countries.

RE: w00t time!
By lompocus on 9/23/2007 1:20:51 AM , Rating: 1
There is a thing called SARCASM, smitty.

There is another wonderful thing in this world that British and Americans love equally: French Jokes.

It was designed for that, but it doesn't do that. In fact, it is helping to initiate it. Right now you have the majority of countries against the US. What are they?

Dictatorships. They make up the UN, and they get the bad end of the stick if either the UK, US, or Japan do anything. Russia and china and europe too, to the limited extent of their militaries...

RE: w00t time!
By smitty3268 on 9/23/2007 3:02:40 AM , Rating: 2
Yes, yes, I knew it was a joke, I guess I just get tired of all the French bashing I see. I'm feeling a little argumentative tonight, as well, I guess.

I'm not sure dictatorships are more against the US than democracies - in fact I think it's probably the other way around. We support tons of dictators, who feel beholden to us. Democracies tend to listen to the general population more which right now tend to be pretty anti-American no matter what kind of government they're under. Of course, there are plenty of counter-examples.

RE: w00t time!
By FITCamaro on 9/23/2007 9:09:17 AM , Rating: 1
Actually that one wasn't sarcasm.

The UN is a worthless, outdated, powerless, spineless, overbearing piece of crap. The only strength it has is in US money and military might because we're the only ones willing to do anything. Yes Europeans deploy forces but at any given time they send maybe a few hundred troops compared to the thousands of US troops. The UN is still as powerless as it was in the days before World War II when it was begging for the US to join. The only difference is now we have so we're being sucked dry by it and doing all the work. Do I think the US is the greatest country on the face of the planet? Damn right. However, does that mean I don't care about the rest of the world? No.

The French would be stupid enough to nuke their own country to prevent it from getting invaded. And yes if another invasion of Europe happens by any military power, France will go down. There's a reason French troop kits include a white flag.

Our anti missile system does work. No its not perfect but hence why I said we'd perfect it. It's been tested. And I fully support developing it further into a laser based system instead of just shooting down one missile with another.

And I do see World War III starting with China attacking someone. And unlike the UN, they actually have the balls to use nukes. You'll never win a ground war with the Chinese considering they outnumber practically any country 3 to 1. Except India but that country has like 3 nukes that they sit on just to extort money from the rest of the world. China is just going to sit back, rake in money from the rest of the world, and develop their weaponry until they can match the US(considering their defense budget is about 3x ours). Then it'll come.

Let the rate downs commence!

RE: w00t time!
By lompocus on 9/23/2007 8:01:23 PM , Rating: 1
I was saying a french thing was sarcasm ;).

Yea the missile defense works, only the crazy and jealous Euros block out the damn news. They happen to agree with our assessment of the UN though XD!

And its quite close to perfect iirc. It shot down the missile that was fired from hawaii. I doubt you can get any more perfect than that.

You can win against China, and there's no way they can out-develop us. Money is different from innovation, especially considering all of their military technology is either outdated russian stuff (Yes even state-of-the-art russian stuff is outdated compared to the stuff I can't tell you :P) or stolen and half-baked American stuff. Our new F22 or w/e its called (that really shiny stealth fighter-bomber thing) kills their chiense ub3r fighter 100 to 1 in tests. Not live tests mind you, but then who is better than American pilots (and israeli pilots)?

WW3 would result in Russia and China getting too full of themselves, invading some piss-poor country aided by the US, suffering extremely high losses to their side compared to the US-minicountry, and get pissed off. The result would be them sending planes to either canada or the US, or in China's case Japan, getting them shot down, and getting very large areas of each of their country blown to bits by US and US-allied planes. Then the jappanese would invade china for the hell of it and take it over :D!

Numbers don't matter. It's like saying the arabs outnumber us and so must win. E.G. Gulf war (since no numbers of the insanely high casualty and death rates for the enemy exist). 20k soldiers I think. Blew up every little bit of saddam's little army, over 200K dead on their side, 41 dead on our side. Exactly 1 tank was destroyed, and that was the result of the driver falling asleep and driving it away from a allied convoy and falling into a river, thus getting the abrams stuck at the bottom. They lived, the tank, not so much.

Hell, i'd even go as far as to say Taiwan could beat up China!

RE: w00t time!
By TSS on 9/24/2007 3:48:24 AM , Rating: 2
china isn't bankrupt. the US will be if china says so, they threatened with it a while back and scared even the europian banks into pumping more money into the world market. your not going to win anything if you cant fund it. you can even drop all the nukes you want on china, then you will be broke, china will be dead and the world will freeze over from nuclear winter. and do you really think when the time comes europe will hold up america? with what?

if america takes a dive, the EU will need all its money to keep itself alive. china however might just pull through and out develop us all, pure on numbers. they might have some difficulties amongst them... but those will be resolved soon enough. dont forget, china is a communist country, but it is by far the most kapatalist oriented communism of the world. they even have close to a free market for Christs sake....

high tech is no use if you cant even pay for the power to run it. and when that time comes, china's low tech will seem pretty high tech by then.

oh and everybody knows real innovation comes from japan :P just look at their TV shows. their more then crazy enough to reinvent the universe. and the latest of innovation i've heard from the USA are patent cases, the next demanding even more billions then the last.

RE: w00t time!
By Ringold on 9/23/2007 12:03:34 PM , Rating: 2
I wont bother to reply to all of that, since it's mostly baseless, except to say, yes, I'm an American. Thank god. :P

RE: w00t time!
By FITCamaro on 9/23/2007 12:13:42 AM , Rating: 2
I wasn't. I said we'll eventually weaponize the moon so don't f*ck with us or we'll hurt you. Do I need to draw a picture?

And this would be another example of a sarcastic comment being taken seriously.

RE: w00t time!
By lompocus on 9/23/07, Rating: -1
RE: w00t time!
By Ringold on 9/23/2007 12:06:40 PM , Rating: 2
gosh, we went from space to saddam pretty quickly in this comment page, eh?

Yep, some fools just can't help but whine about Bush/Iraq/the environment, even if it were an article on ice cream.

"If it weren't for Iraq, we could give vanilla ice cream to everyone! If it weren't for Afghanistan, we could make it vanilla fudge ice cream!!!11eleven"

RE: w00t time!
By feelingshorter on 9/22/2007 4:28:50 PM , Rating: 2
I cant imagine Russia going down to the South pole (or was it north) and sticking their flag down there and claiming it as theirs. Since they already did that, i think the USA better claim the moon.

RE: w00t time!
By kitchme on 9/22/2007 10:23:27 PM , Rating: 2
South Pole is a huge landmass, and Russia is nowhere near South Pole.

Anyway, with the race to claim North Pole's resources, we can rest assured that the polar caps will be melted in no time.

RE: w00t time!
By lompocus on 9/22/2007 11:44:23 PM , Rating: 2
Actually Russia is allowed by international law to claim the north pole :(. It falls under their boundaries, or at least the most important water channels to allow shipping do. Besides, its CANADA vs RUSSIA! WTF does the US have to do with this?

Russia has no power in the world anymore. Period. They can talk all they want, they can say they can defeat our missiles, etc. Its like saying a pimp can beat up a SF soldier.

And btw, the missile defense system works, I've seen the damn this, all 64,392 of us living in Lompoc, California. So russia can't even nuke us, not to mention Star Wars which may or may not have been stopped ;)

RE: w00t time!
By smitty3268 on 9/23/2007 1:10:55 AM , Rating: 2
Russia has no power in the world anymore. Period.

Unfortunately, they control a significant portion of the world's energy supplies. Which is also why they claimed the north pole, as people think there are tons of oil waiting to be discovered there, enough to make Saudi Arabia jealous.

And btw, the missile defense system works, I've seen the damn this, all 64,392 of us living in Lompoc, California

Not according to the official US government reports it doesn't. Not even close. But maybe they're just trying to throw us off, and it actually does? You're some general who knows secret information? Somehow I doubt that, and if you are then you're committing treason.

RE: w00t time!
By lompocus on 9/23/07, Rating: -1
RE: w00t time!
By smitty3268 on 9/23/2007 2:58:21 AM , Rating: 2
They're energy supplies don't really come to us, that's right. They do sell a lot to Europe and China, though, and that means they do have global importance which is the point i was making.

As far as that missile defense "test", you obviously have no idea how rigged it was.

In the past six years of flight tests, here is what the Pentagon's missile-defense agency has demonstrated: A missile can hit another missile in mid-air as long as a) the operators know exactly where the target missile has come from and where it's going; b) the target missile is flying at a slower-than-normal speed; c) it's transmitting a special beam that exaggerates its radar signature, thus making it easier to track; d) only one target missile has been launched; and e) the "attack" happens in daylight.

Beyond that, the program's managers know nothing—in part because they have never run a test that goes beyond this heavily scripted (it would not be too strong to call it "rigged") scenario.
For many of these components, tests will not be ready for a while. The upgraded version of the Patriot air-defense missile, known as PAC-3, has shown "shortcomings" in operational testing. Further tests are scheduled—three this year, 12 next year, five in 2006, and seven in 2007—but, Christie notes, "the adequacy of this testing cannot be fully assessed because detailed objectives for most of the tests ... are not yet defined." In other words, the program managers not only haven't yet tested the missile; they haven't yet figured out what they need to test. Ditto for the vital Space Tracking Surveillance System. "The full capabilities of STSS," Christie writes, "cannot be tested until ... 2006 and 2008."

RE: w00t time!
By FITCamaro on 9/23/2007 12:30:25 AM , Rating: 2
We already staked our claim to the moon. Remember that US flag Neil Armstrong left up there? We just haven't called it in yet since its not an issue yet.

And Russia has already tried to stake a claim to the oil under the artic when they planted their flag on the ocean floor.

RE: w00t time!
By AggressorPrime on 9/22/2007 7:02:10 PM , Rating: 3
I thought it was agreed that no military activity will occur in space.

RE: w00t time!
By skyyspam on 9/23/2007 12:03:26 PM , Rating: 2
Ugh--can you imagine doing a 2 year deployment to a MOON BASE? That's worse than being on a ship for 7 months!

Screw that.

RE: w00t time!
By lompocus on 9/22/07, Rating: 0
International cooperation
By ajfink on 9/22/2007 6:39:09 PM , Rating: 2
It's things like going to the moon and Mars that really make me annoyed that the US hasn't reached out and cooperated more fully with the European, Russian and Japanese space agencies. Politics is the only thing keeping a unified space agency from being developed. I do recall the Russians recently suggesting greater space cooperation with the US, and NASA declined. Obnoxious.

Also, perhaps in a few years when we don't have Iraq to pay for, some of that money can be sent NASA's way. I don't even know what they would be doing with the billions of dollars being spent on the war now. Once the problem is out of the way, I'd like to see funding shifted around a little in NASA's favor (now I will wait for the "but look at all the other things we could spend all that money on here in the US!!1!!" argument).

RE: International cooperation
By derwin on 9/22/2007 7:48:53 PM , Rating: 2
there isnt any money that we are spending on iraq. we are borrowing all of it.

RE: International cooperation
By smitty3268 on 9/22/2007 9:28:52 PM , Rating: 2
from China.

RE: International cooperation
By psyph3r on 9/22/2007 11:37:54 PM , Rating: 2
to the tune of 3 billion dollars a DAY! wow...they could crush us if they called in the debt. or if they flooded the market with the ~trillion dollars in cash they have...our dollar would crash.

RE: International cooperation
By lompocus on 9/22/07, Rating: 0
RE: International cooperation
By smitty3268 on 9/23/2007 3:10:37 AM , Rating: 2
Technically, yes, any government can simply declare that they'll no longer accept some currency as being valid, and we could simply declare that we aren't going to pay of our debt to China and that if they ask we'll blow them up. But given how dependent our economy is on foreign money and products, that would be a complete disaster for us. Although, if China was doing this to hurt us anyway, I suppose it wouldn't matter.

RE: International cooperation
By kyp275 on 9/23/2007 4:43:48 AM , Rating: 2
heh, by the time we get to that point, my guess would be that nukes won't be far behind, and it'll all be a moot point.

*looks for some lunar estates :P

RE: International cooperation
By nofranchise on 9/23/2007 10:59:52 AM , Rating: 2
Once again one is appalled by the immense number of imbeciles wasting our time on DT's boards.

Lay those flames on me ignorant nationalist morons!

Without China we'd all be screwed - they produce everything around you - including the diapers I presume some of you're wearing...

In 25 years people in the US and Europe will all be dancing to the tune of somebody called Xhao Chen instead of Justin Timberlake.

RE: International cooperation
By Xietsu on 9/23/2007 4:46:24 PM , Rating: 2
What most don't realize is that NASA is also heavily intertwined within the paradigm of national security. I believe this is likely the central coercer to contesting cooperative contracts.

RE: International cooperation
By lompocus on 9/23/2007 8:04:31 PM , Rating: 1
You do understand your little european country would gladly accept US factories moving their production to you guys instead of China, right? The companies would pay more, but you all would make more money, and the world would be exactly the same, sans China.

Damn, you guys seem to think China is the answer to life and everything. I presonally don't see a country that runs over protestor's with tanks in a large city's central square to be a very successful country.

Private Enterprise + Moon
By Ringold on 9/23/2007 12:44:58 PM , Rating: 6
though nothing concrete has been announced recently.

LEO station minimally operational by 2012, followed by a new similar one at a point such as L1.

Bigelow would turn that region of space, called L1, into a construction zone. Inflatable modules would be linked up with propulsion/power systems and support structures, and then the completed base would be lowered down to the moon's surface, all in one piece.
Once the moon base has been set down, dirt would be piled on top, using a technique that Bigelow plans to start testing later this year at his Las Vegas headquarters. The moon dirt, more technically known as regolith, would serve to shield the base's occupants from the harsh radiation hitting the lunar surface.

While not a concrete time schedule, at least he's honest. I consider that every bit as solid as anything from a government mouth. :P

He's already taken a technology simply discarded by NASA and put, if I'm not mistaken, now two working prototype modules in orbit.

The only snag is transporting people around but after Scaled Composites ease in the first competition I'm sure by the time such a need exists for human transport private enterprise will have caught up to that, too, since we're talking about lunar bases a decade or so away.

solar power?
By kattanna on 9/24/2007 10:04:53 AM , Rating: 2
Although nuclear power was one of the more popular methods to help power the housing location, Doug Cooke, a NASA official who is the head of the lunar research group, claims solar power should be the power method used.

since the moon does have a day/night cycle, albiet very long, there are still long periods of no sun. last time i checked solar panels require sunlight to produce power..

lets get over the irational fears of nuclear power and just give them a real power station up there.

RE: solar power?
By bespoke on 9/24/2007 1:25:54 PM , Rating: 2
There are mountains at the south pole of the moon that are almost always in sunlight, so solar can work there.

But I agree with you - nuclear is the way to go.

RE: solar power?
By kattanna on 9/24/2007 3:04:57 PM , Rating: 2
true, but according to more info found here

NASA has eyed the moon's Shackleton Crater near the lunar south pole as a possible moon base site because of its proximity to permanently lit and shadowed regions that could be key for solar power stations and the hunt for water ice. But Cooke said that Shackleton is not the only candidate for a moon base, especially since the revised plan calls for mobile habitat modules that could move between science targets or gather together in a sort of lunar spare parts depot.

so they are already seriously considering other spots not close enough, unless they plan on running one VERY long cable and dragging it around with them as they move around.

now any base on said crater would have direct sun for solar, but its such a tiny portion of the moon.

Why this sudden interest in the Moon?
By MonkeyPaw on 9/22/2007 4:29:24 PM , Rating: 3
The private sector also showed strong interest in lunar hotels and bases in the past...

I can't wait for Urban sprawl to reach the moon.

By AlphaVirus on 9/24/2007 11:27:38 AM , Rating: 2
It will actually be very interesting to see what companies will invest and which wealthy people will try to live on the moon.
Soon it will be the taboo...
Person 1 "Did you see on the news today, *insert celeb name* just went to the moon on another trip"
Person 2 "Man I cant wait till I get my money saved up so I can go"

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