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2009 was the second hottest year in recorded history. The global experienced a major shift in temperatures from 2008, heating up despite cooling of North America in December by cold air flowing from the Arctic.  (Source: Dan Crosbie)
Evidence of a warming planet grows

Global Warming theories these days have become a contentious debate.  Some global warming researchers were caught falsifying data, and on the other side critics as recently as a few years ago were fighting to suppress pro-warming research within the U.S. National Aeronautics and Space Agency and the Environmental Protection Agency.  In short, in one of the most pivotal economic and scientific questions to currently face mankind, there's both a great deal of legitimate research and debate, but also a great deal of passionate observers on both sides who are abandoning science and logic.

In all honesty, climate models are too badly flawed to form the primary basis of long-term prediction.  Data collection, on the other hand, presents a more logical sound option.  And the data seems to be suggesting that the world is indeed warming.

NASA's annual study of global surface temperatures for 2009 wrapped up and the results have been released and appear very interesting.  Temperatures rebounded greatly in 2009 from a brief cooling in 2008. Globally, the year was the hottest on NASA's record -- which spans back to 1880.  And in the Southern Hemisphere that appears to be experiencing stronger warming, the year was the hottest on record.

With the strong La Nina, which cooled the tropical Pacific Ocean in 2008 fading, things heated back up in 2009.  According to NASA's Goddard Institute for Space Studies (GISS) in New York, which compiled the data taken from scores ground and sea temperature stations worldwide, 2009 was in a tie with 1998, 2002, 2003, 2006, and 2007 for second hottest year on record.  It failed to break the record heat set in 2005, though.

James Hansen, the GISS director who in the past was heavily criticized when his data was exposed to be skewed by a Y2K bug, commented, "There's always interest in the annual temperature numbers and a given year's ranking, but the ranking often misses the point. There's substantial year-to-year variability of global temperature caused by the tropical El Nino-La Nina cycle. When we average temperature over five or ten years to minimize that variability, we find global warming is continuing unabated."

Indeed, graphs of global temperatures show clear warming trends between 1880 and 1940 and 1970 to the present, with a somewhat leveled off period between 1940 and 1970.  The last decade, the hottest on record is part of a three-decade rise in temperatures, which saw global surface temperatures jump 0.36 degrees F (0.2 degrees C) per decade.  Since 1880 temperatures have risen 1.5 degrees F (0.8 degrees C).

Explains GISS climatologist Gavin Schmidt, "That's the important number to keep in mind. "The difference between the second and sixth warmest years is trivial because the known uncertainty in the temperature measurement is larger than some of the differences between the warmest years."

The increases come despite a very cool December in North America, which perhaps spared 2009 from the dubious distinction of being the hottest year on record.  In December, high air pressures from the Arctic decreased the east-west flow of the jet stream and increased north to south flow, causing cool air to flood down across North America.

Unlike the Britain's Climate Research Unit, subject to the recent scandal, NASA's Goddard Center uses publicly available data, so scientists and armchair observers alike can analyze the reports and comb them for any possible errors.  The data used comes from over a thousand meteorological stations around the world, satellite observations of sea surface temperatures, and Antarctic research station measurements.

While this latest data is unlikely to change the minds of biased parties on either side of the debate much, for legitimate researchers and observers, the new report offers significant insight when combined with the rest of the data from the past decade.

While the Earth's temperature has been much higher in the ancient past, the Earth also would have been far less hospitable to the human population had they existed at the time (for example in the Permian period, 300 million years ago).  Thus it is critical to determine whether man is playing a role in warming, and what steps if any mankind can take to keep temperatures within a hospitable range.  That is a topic that demands legitimate, unbiased research.



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interesting article
By kattanna on 1/22/2010 10:50:33 AM , Rating: 3
the article seemed devoid of opinion until the end

quote:
While the Earth's temperature has been much higher in the ancient past, the Earth also would have been far less hospitable to the human population had they existed at the time (for example in the Permian period, 300 million years ago)


then you threw that in there.

now tell me how a warmer stable climate would be far less hospitable to humans? and try to explain that to those who live in such a climate now, like those in the rain forests.




RE: interesting article
By Goty on 1/22/2010 10:58:33 AM , Rating: 3
Temperature is not the only variable here; the levels of oxygen and the other gases that make up our atmosphere have not consistently been what we would consider "habitable" over the lifetime of the planet.


RE: interesting article
By kattanna on 1/22/2010 11:13:08 AM , Rating: 5
while that is true, the fact there was air breathing surface animals would indicate that we, being born into such an environment, would be just fine.


RE: interesting article
By porkpie on 1/22/2010 12:31:18 PM , Rating: 3
Not sure why your comment got rated down. You're absolutely correct. There was plenty of O2 300 million years ago, and the climate was more hospitable than it is today.

300 million years of pulling carbon out of the air is what began the cycle of ice ages. For fairly simple reasons, CO2 doesn't cause runaway global warming, but its pretty good at stopping ice ages.


RE: interesting article
By gamerk2 on 1/22/10, Rating: -1
RE: interesting article
By porkpie on 1/22/2010 3:32:34 PM , Rating: 5
"Venus is a very interesting study case in this area"

Venus is much closer to the sun, it has no water vapor to moderate temperatures (and to absorb the same wavelengths of light that CO2 does). It also has several million times the partial pressure of CO2 that the earth does.

Of course CO2 affects temperature. The problem is that it only works when its very cold (when all the water vapor is gone from the air). CO2 helps to prevent ice ages. But it cannot cause runaway warming.

"this is how every year USED to be just a few decades ago. "

Lol, right. Here's an article from the Wash. Post you might find interesting. Its from 1922 :
quote:
The Arctic ocean is warming up, icebergs are growing scarcer and in some places the seals are finding the water too hot, according to a report to the Commerce Department yesterday from Consul Ifft, at Bergen, Norway. Reports from fishermen, seal hunters and explorers, he declared, all point to a radical change in climate conditions and hitherto unheard-of temperatures in the Arctic zone. Exploration expeditions report that scarcely any ice has been met with as far north as 81 degrees 29 minutes. Soundings to a depth of 3,100 meters showed the gulf stream still very warm.

Great masses of ice have been replaced by moraines of earth and stones, the report continued, while at many points well known glaciers have entirely disappeared. Very few seals and no white fish are found in the eastern Arctic, while vast shoals of herring and smelts, which have never before ventured so far north, are being encountered in the old seal fishing grounds."

Not a lot of cars being driven in 1922, eh?


RE: interesting article
By sigmatau on 1/22/10, Rating: -1
RE: interesting article
By JediJeb on 1/22/2010 5:59:36 PM , Rating: 5
Seems like cycles proves everything he was gettin at, that you can't make the assumption for AGW simply from a short warming period in the last century.


RE: interesting article
By JediJeb on 1/22/2010 6:03:06 PM , Rating: 2
I was with you until you forgot to mention the massive amount of sulfuric acid in the atmosphere of Venus, but if you left that out you must not know what you are talking about ;) j/k


RE: interesting article
By Screwballl on 1/23/2010 10:41:49 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
1922 story


exactly... in the 20s and 30s it was global warming, in the 60s and 70s it was global cooling, in the 90s and 2000s it is back to global warming... only now in order to extract more cash from our pockets, they put it under the illegal guise of "manmade" warming...

1975 Newsweek:

quote:
The Cooling World - Global Cooling --- first printed in Newsweek, 1975
| April 28, 1975 |
staff writer

There are ominous signs that the Earth’s weather patterns have begun to change dramatically and that these changes may portend a drastic decline in food production– with serious political implications for just about every nation on Earth. The drop in food output could begin quite soon, perhaps only 10 years from now. The regions destined to feel its impact are the great wheat-producing lands of Canada and the U.S.S.R. in the North, along with a number of marginally self-sufficient tropical areas – parts of India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Indochina and Indonesia – where the growing season is dependent upon the rains brought by the monsoon. The evidence in support of these predictions has now begun to accumulate so massively that meteorologists are hard-pressed to keep up with it. In England, farmers have seen their growing season decline by about two weeks since 1950, with a resultant overall loss in grain production estimated at up to 100,000 tons annually. During the same time, the average temperature around the equator has risen by a fraction of a degree – a fraction that in some areas can mean drought and desolation. Last April, in the most devastating outbreak of tornadoes ever recorded, 148 twisters killed more than 300 people and caused half a billion dollars' worth of damage in 13 U.S. states.


Here is also a good read:

http://www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/ice_ages.html


RE: interesting article
By Jaybus on 1/22/2010 12:44:48 PM , Rating: 5
Exactly. Also, we know from the fossil record that there is more life in warm periods and less life in cold periods. That makes sense, if you think about it from an available energy perspective.

What I find odd is that the observed subliming of the CO2 ice cap on Mars coincides with the melting water ice cap of Earth, yet we see two very different explanations coming from NASA. For Mars they are saying it is a localized phenomenon, rather than global, and might be caused by increased dust storms. For Earth, they insist it is global warming. Curious.


RE: interesting article
By ZHENDHIDE4 on 1/28/10, Rating: 0
RE: interesting article
By cblais19 on 1/22/2010 10:59:52 AM , Rating: 2
Also, apparently some parts of the world were warmer then the current period during the "Medieval Warm Period" (now called the Medieval Climate Anomaly by some, interesting).


RE: interesting article
By Amiga500 on 1/22/10, Rating: -1
RE: interesting article
By kattanna on 1/22/2010 11:30:54 AM , Rating: 2
with year around farming seasons, far more then now with our limited cycles.

research has shown there were vast areas used for farming that is now, once again, rain forest. cleared by those ancient civilizations long ago that feed millions with their primitive farming tech. staple temps and more consistent rains would be a boon to farming.

quote:
Think before typing...


it would behoove you to follow your own advice.


RE: interesting article
By porkpie on 1/22/2010 12:34:20 PM , Rating: 3
"So what is the sustainable population density in rainforest type climate?"

Given the most highly populated countries in the world tend to be in tropical or subtropical climates, I think you made the opposite point of what you meant to.

Seen what the population density of Northern Russia or Canada is, btw?


RE: interesting article
By Drag0nFire on 1/22/2010 11:23:38 AM , Rating: 2
Well for starters, people in low areas will be displaced as the sea level rises...


RE: interesting article
By kattanna on 1/22/2010 11:36:53 AM , Rating: 2
and while the planet has ice caps that grow and shrink, that will always be an issue.

only with an ice cap free planet, can any population that chooses to live next to the current water line be assured of no future rises. not counting tsunami's and such.


RE: interesting article
By TTowntom2 on 1/22/10, Rating: 0
RE: interesting article
By Omega215D on 1/22/2010 12:52:27 PM , Rating: 2
That's not the only option.... it's been shown that as the plates move some lands will go under and others will form. The History Channel's series "How the Earth Was Made" sheds light on everything that might have had an effect on the planet and many of the theories seem pretty sound. India is moving under the asian continent though I forgot at what rate.

Also mountains had a great effect on weather systems and act as a temp regulator of sorts.


RE: interesting article
By msomeoneelsez on 1/22/2010 11:00:57 PM , Rating: 2
Over the 20th Century, sea levels rose by about a foot. How many people were displaced?

What is the latest real estimates of how much the sea level will rise in the next 100 years? I want to say 2 feet, right?

Just postulating, not really making a point here...


RE: interesting article
By AnnihilatorX on 1/23/2010 7:19:21 AM , Rating: 2
New Scientist article stated that increased temperature would negatively affect world crop production because of change in the optimal farming zone, where they are currently devoid of much urban development. Higher temperature would shift the optimal farming area from current farming centres, to where places are likely to be population centres or areas unsuitable for farming.


RE: interesting article
By Omega215D on 1/23/2010 1:05:38 PM , Rating: 2
The Sahara used to be a suitable farming area but then dried out and it has been doing this in a cyclical fashion as evidence shows from the show "How the Earth Was Made" and that the Sahara is due to become a lush surface once again.


RE: interesting article
By Camikazi on 1/23/2010 4:22:31 PM , Rating: 2
Then it was very stupid of us to create non movable buildings then :P


RE: interesting article
By SoCalBoomer on 1/25/2010 2:39:14 PM , Rating: 2
so we need Terran bases, right? Lift off and move to the new habitable areas away from the 'Toss and Zerg hive. . .


The big debate!
By boobot on 1/22/2010 10:55:26 AM , Rating: 5
Global warming and cooling happens. Whether humans contribute is arguable but I do believe reducing polution is always a good thing!




RE: The big debate!
By JediJeb on 1/22/2010 11:15:40 AM , Rating: 5
True, and from the article where it states warming happened from 1880-1940, then again from 1970-today, I wonder what happened between 1940 and 1970? Odd that a time when our industry and economies began to really take off after WW2 we were not experiencing warming. The graphs of CO2 versus Temperature rise I have seen really do not show Temps lagging behind CO2 by about 20 years, usually it is the total opposite. That would say that, yes the temperatures are rising, but unlikely that human activity plays much of a role.

If human activity does not play much of a role in global warming, then we better stop wasting time trying reduce our impact and instead spend more time trying to figure out how to adapt to the changes that are going to occur naturally. If we continue on the current course, we might end up as a society that emmits no CO2 except what we breathe yet still collapsing because we can not adapt to a changing world.


RE: The big debate!
By theapparition on 1/22/2010 11:52:19 AM , Rating: 2
Excellent summary. I was just going to post something similar.

Strage that there was no warming trend in the period widely reguarded as the most signifigantly polluting in the worlds history.


RE: The big debate!
By AnnihilatorX on 1/23/2010 7:21:31 AM , Rating: 1
There is a simple reason.

The industrial revolution of dirty coal industry actually has a cooling effect due to the soot and particulates being released and blocking sunlight.


RE: The big debate!
By cocoman on 1/22/2010 1:40:01 PM , Rating: 1
Adapting is not easy at all.
I don't really think we cause global warming with CO2, but supose warming is a natural cycle of earth. The problem with this natural cycle is that sea level rises.
To adapt to this you need trillions of dollars, just to say a number, to build sea barriers like Holland and move millions of people off the coast, becuase most cities in the world are on the coast.

So the easy, cheap and fast way is to create this global warming campaign and after some years of brainwash you will see all the green peace fans and the public in general do something they normally would completely oppose: We will start manipulating artificially the climate to our needs.

Right now we are on a huge global marketing campaign to change the idea of what is good for the enviroment, to what we need the enviroment to be. And in the process blame ourselfs for the enviroment not being the way we want it.


RE: The big debate!
By JediJeb on 1/22/2010 5:28:24 PM , Rating: 3
Maybe not easy but very possible. Right now humans live anywhere from the tropics to the poles, so I am sure we can devise a way to live in most any extreme. People from the Inuits to the Polynesians to the Nomads of the Sahara all manage to live in the extremes even without much in the way of modern technology. Mankind may not be able to exist with the comfortable norm we have come to enjoy, but I do believe mankind will still exist even if the worlds climate changes drastically over time.

Sea barriers are what has gotten places like New Orleans in trouble over the years. People will have to leave the coastal cities if the sea levels rise too much. But also consider the opposite, if the climate cools drastically, then those once florishing coastal cities will then be miles from the ocean, which would also mean a huge investment to move all the harbors to the new coastline.

Over time the great cities of the world have migrated, in that what was once a great city is now declining and what was once a small city is now growing. Rome was once the greatest city in the world, now there are many cities much larger than it is now. Los Angeles paled in comparison to San Francisco at one time also, now which is bigger? Also we may need trillions of dollars to move the cities, but since the sea level change will be over a period of decades to centuries, it will only be a gradual shift of where people live and work thus spreading out the cost to a managable level.

quote:
So the easy, cheap and fast way is to create this global warming campaign and after some years of brainwash you will see all the green peace fans and the public in general do something they normally would completely oppose: We will start manipulating artificially the climate to our needs.


I doubt though that we are going to manipulating the climate to suit our needs anytime soon. If the climate changes far too much then maybe we will be building bio-domes but I doubt that will even be necessary. People will learn to live in the new climate just as mankind has done for the whole time we have walked on the planet. Those who learn to adapt will survive, and those who refuse will disappear. I don't think it is a matter of can we adapt, it is a matter of will we adapt.


RE: The big debate!
By just4U on 1/26/2010 3:36:58 AM , Rating: 2
I'd be rather alarmed if we started tinkering with the climate. We simply do not know enough to understand what the long term effects might be. Can't predict the weather, have no clue about long term climate change yet... we want to screw with it ...

...hmmmmmm .... NO!

I hope the scientific comunity understands that and agrees.


RE: The big debate!
By FITCamaro on 1/22/2010 11:22:15 AM , Rating: 5
I agree. Reducing pollution is always an admirable goal. The issue is what politicians are considering pollutants. An essential part of life on this planet is not one.


RE: The big debate!
By amagriva on 1/22/10, Rating: 0
RE: The big debate!
By rcc on 1/22/2010 4:09:02 PM , Rating: 2
Let us know when you finish that thought


RE: The big debate!
By sigmatau on 1/22/10, Rating: -1
RE: The big debate!
By Kurz on 1/23/2010 9:24:40 AM , Rating: 2
You sure have no education in Biology.
Its called the food chain for a reason.


RE: The big debate!
By Camikazi on 1/23/2010 4:28:52 PM , Rating: 2
"an essential part of life" means it is needed somewhere in the cycle of life, and last I checked plants were very important to our survival, since they use CO2 to create oxygen and are eaten by a lot of the animals we use for food.


RE: The big debate!
By BBeltrami on 1/25/2010 11:06:37 AM , Rating: 1
"CO2 is not 'an essential part of life.'"

Dude... you make baby Einstein cry...


RE: The big debate!
By hduser on 1/25/2010 2:36:53 PM , Rating: 2
quote:

"CO2 is not 'an essential part of life.'"

Dude... you make baby Einstein cry...


Einstein? What about Darwin?


RE: The big debate!
By whiskerwill on 1/25/2010 3:55:05 PM , Rating: 2
Darwin's not crying. Natural selection will take care of anyone that stupid...thereby proving his theory.


RE: The big debate!
By General Disturbance on 1/26/2010 3:48:46 PM , Rating: 1
My god Man, have you ever heard of oxygen? Where does the oxygen you breathe come from?

CO2! You fail.

Better than that: What chemical element is ALL LIFE, i.e. DNA, based upon?

Carbon!

Now to really educate you: where does that carbon come from? Where does ALL DNA come from?

The same place you get O2. From CO2.

The entire biosphere, as the entire biosphere is chemically based upon the element carbon, depends on CO2.

CO2 + photosynthesis is the FIRST AND ONLY way carbon enters the biosphere, thus allowing ALL DNA. The rest of life just trades it all around.

CO2 is just as fundamental as sunlight.


RE: The big debate!
By BruceLeet on 1/22/10, Rating: 0
By The Imir of Groofunkistan on 1/22/2010 1:42:59 PM , Rating: 4
while that seems like a good stance to take, the question is at what cost? At what point does reducing pollution cost too much? When it's an inconvenience? When a few companies profits go down or go under? When it collapses our entire economic system with regulation and taxes? And what is the true urgency? The politicians, nationally and internationally, have much to gain personally if this were true. They have taken the debate away from the the facts and the real science. The news media sensationalize every little report or Al Gore sighting, to their benefit as well. Science is meant to be examined from every angle possible. Yet we have things happen like the CRU destroying the ability for examination of evidence and actively stifling debate.

People aren't stupid. They are trying to fight through all of the dishonesty and BS to determine if there really is a problem worth addressing. If there is, truly how bad (and they don't want to hear Al Gore's 'the sky is falling routine')? If they are ever able to determine this, only then will they be able to come to a decision on what it is worth to them to fix it. But the more dishonesty and BS they find, the more they will believe it's all just a manufactured argument, loosely based on some convenient measurements, devoid of integrity, and wash their hands of the whole mess.


Ye Olde News
By Hieyeck on 1/22/2010 11:43:06 AM , Rating: 1
It's been warming since 12,500 years ago. How is this news?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Last_glacial_period

[/cynicism]

This global warming thing is getting tiring Mick. I don't disagree that we shouldn't develop cleaner technologies, but not for the FUD you're trying to push. We should be going green for health and aesthetics. That yellow haze is nasty, and as humans, we exhale CO2 as a waste product, so we definitely shouldn't be inhaling it. Also, hydrogen as a fuel is far more efficient if we can store and use it safely.




RE: Ye Olde News
By Thats Mr Gopher to you on 1/22/2010 2:18:16 PM , Rating: 2
Hydrogen isn't efficient. It's nice and clean (as long as you produce it with clean energy) but not efficient. You'll use far more energy producing hydrogen and running cars with hydrogen fuel cells than battery electric vehicles. Hydrogen fuel cell vehicles would be nice though if you did have loads of clean energy.


RE: Ye Olde News
By corduroygt on 1/22/2010 5:00:30 PM , Rating: 5
We do, it's called nuclear energy.


RE: Ye Olde News
By jjmcubed on 1/22/2010 8:40:05 PM , Rating: 2
+1


RE: Ye Olde News
By Kurz on 1/23/10, Rating: -1
RE: Ye Olde News
By whiskerwill on 1/23/2010 1:53:52 PM , Rating: 5
If you call 10,000 years or so limited, then yeah. I'm pretty sure we'll have something better than nuclear power in that amount of time though.


RE: Ye Olde News
By Kurz on 1/25/2010 12:50:45 AM , Rating: 1
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uranium_depletion

http://www.theoildrum.com/node/2379

Oh rly?

It seems really up in the air though.
Oh well lets see what our good scientists/Politicians come up this time.


RE: Ye Olde News
By whiskerwill on 1/25/2010 11:16:42 AM , Rating: 5
Really. First of all, our "known" uranium deposits almost all date from 30-50 years ago. Prospecting almost entirely stopped in the 1970s. With enviros blocking new nuclear plants, and reserves good for the next 100+ years, why waste money looking for more?

Second of all, the current crop of nuclear reactors only extracts about 1% of the total energy from uranium. The "nuclear waste" we throw away is valuable fuel, which could easily be used in a breeder reactor (1970s-era tech, rather than the 1960s-era tech current nuclear plants are).

Third of all, we don't even have to use uranium in nuclear reactors. We can use thorium, an element some 3X as abundant.


RE: Ye Olde News
By whiskerwill on 1/22/2010 9:11:11 PM , Rating: 4
quote:
we exhale CO2 as a waste product, so we definitely shouldn't be inhaling it
CO2 is clean and safe. In fac,t we add it millions of pounds of it each year to soft drinks (what do you think makes the fizz?) In fact, we actually do NEED to breathe in at least a little CO2. It takes a minimum concentration to trigger the breathing response.


OMG Wow!
By jonmcc33 on 1/22/2010 12:53:12 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Since 1880 temperatures have risen 1.5 degrees F (0.8 degrees C).


Good, so in another 130 years when I am dead it still won't make a difference.

The single digit lows that I saw this winter in Ohio also could have fooled me that it was getting warmer.




RE: OMG Wow!
By jjmcubed on 1/22/10, Rating: 0
RE: OMG Wow!
By porkpie on 1/22/2010 2:25:11 PM , Rating: 5
I love it when people interpret a few years warming (right after coming out of an ice age, no less!) as the End Of Life As We Know It. Fact is, its still colder than it was during the Medieval Warm Period, back when Greenland was actually "green".

BTW, this winter may have been a drop in the bucket....but temperatures have been cooling since about 1998.


RE: OMG Wow!
By jjmcubed on 1/22/2010 5:46:30 PM , Rating: 1
If your referring to me with "a few years of warming" I said no such thing. As I said, I don't know if it is happening and I don't trust either side of the issue. All I was talking about is the people who talk about THIS winter as an indication. If you have data for the past couple years let me know please. I'd love to see a sample of data that isn't tainted.


RE: OMG Wow!
By porkpie on 1/22/2010 6:08:47 PM , Rating: 2
Fair enough. But consider this. There are only two possibilities, either

a) GW isn't happening, or
b) GW is happening -- but if it wasn't, this winter would have been even WORSE than it was.

After a century of so-called warming, we still have far more people dying of cold than heat. Personally I wish CO2 actually could warm up the planet another couple of degrees. It'd be a good thing for us.


RE: OMG Wow!
By safcman84 on 1/25/2010 4:48:24 AM , Rating: 1
GW is happening (if its natural or not is another argument), but its effects are not fully understood. an increased GLOBAL average, could mean some areas get colder, while others get a lot hotter. some areas will get dryer, some wetter. a mini-iceage could be triggered in the northern hemisphere due to the increased average global temps for all we know.

The reason for this is that while the oceans heat up, weather patterns get disrupted, heat transfer currents (air or ocean currents) change/get slowed down.

a couple of degrees warmer might be good for you, but somewhere else it could have devastating effects. The increased average temps might of been the cause of this cold winter....

Unfortunately, nobody really knows what the consequences of an increased average global temperature will have.

Another issue, is that humans have had a tendency to construct on low lying coastal areas, flood plains etc. This means that, whether man-made (man-accelerated*) or not , if the global temps increase and ice caps do melt then a lot of the worlds major cities are going to be in big trouble.

*I believe, though it is irrelevant to my post, that we are in a period of natural warming, that has been augmented (accelerated) by human activities.


RE: OMG Wow!
By whiskerwill on 1/25/2010 11:21:40 AM , Rating: 3
quote:
Unfortunately, nobody really knows what the consequences of an increased average global temperature will have.
Actually we do. Historically, there have been two periods (the Roman Warm Period and the Medieval Climate Optimum) that were both warmer than today. We know from documented records that both periods were good for civilization, with crop yields up, starvation down, and birthrates flourishing.

quote:
"if the global temps increase and ice caps do melt then a lot of the worlds major cities are going to be in big trouble

Even if GW researchers are correct (which it seems they're not), the forecast is for sea level to rise less than 2 feet over the next 100 years. 60% of the Netherlands is further than that below sea level....and they accomplished that with 19th century technology. Are you honestly saying that we'd have problems with 22nd century tech accomplishing that?


RE: OMG Wow!
By jonmcc33 on 1/22/2010 11:20:46 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I love it when people talk about a cold winter to say no way to global warming. Personally I'm not sure if human caused global warming is happening. If it is, the temp only has to AVERAGE 3-4 degrees diff for our climate to be affected. So we are talking about 3-4 degrees difference 24 hours a day, 365 days a year, for the span of more than a human life.


It was 1.5F increase from 1880. That's a whopping 0.0115384F increase every year!

I don't know. Maybe it is something serious. It will only cause problems centuries after I am gone though. Won't matter to me!


RE: OMG Wow!
By Topweasel on 1/25/2010 3:00:56 PM , Rating: 3
Which is a decade outside the Mini Ice Age. If someone ever looked a the full graph of the temperatures for the world throughout history I don't know how anyone could come up with the determination that any temperature was the best. They would also look at all the different spikes (which could be decades or centuries long) and they would understand that the balance is more like a perpetual pendulum. Anyone trying to determine the weather changes is throwing darts at a moving board with a blindfold on. Anyone proclaiming certainty of any sort even at its smallest period (1 day) is just doing for some self serving reason because they are full of BS and hot air.


Misleading
By whiskerwill on 1/22/2010 1:37:46 PM , Rating: 4
quote:
The increases come despite a very cool December in North America

Just North America? China set cold records not seen since the 1930s, Great Britain had to call out troops due to massive snowstorms, and it got so cold in Norway, buses couldn't run because their engine oil froze solid.




RE: Misleading
By Grabo on 1/23/2010 7:33:39 PM , Rating: 2
References, Dear Gods man, references?
If you are to totally discredit NASA; do you think any people but other American DT posters will take you by your word?

Northern hemisphere southern hemisphere anyone? November (In Sweden, and I dare say other Nordic countries as well) was one of the mildest on record...it felt more like Ireland).


RE: Misleading
By porkpie on 1/23/2010 10:03:15 PM , Rating: 3
"References, Dear Gods man, references?"

I'll oblige you.

quote:
Arctic air and record snow falls gripped the northern hemisphere yesterday, inflicting hardship and havoc from China, across Russia to Western Europe and over the US plains.

There were few precedents for the global sweep of extreme cold and ice that killed dozens in India, paralysed life in Beijing and threatened the Florida orange crop. Chicagoans sheltered from a potentially killer freeze, Paris endured sunny Siberian cold, Italy dug itself out of snowdrifts and Poland counted at least 13 deaths in record low temperatures of about minus 25C (-13F).

The heaviest snow yesterday hit northeastern Asia, which is suffering its worst winter weather for 60 years.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/weather/arti...

quote:
More than 80 people have died across Europe as days of snow storms and sub-zero temperatures swept the continent, causing traffic chaos for millions.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8424953.stm
quote:
Record Cold Weather In Europe Wreaks Havoc...
http://video.aol.co.uk/video-detail/weather-record...

quote:
Britain is facing its coldest and snowiest winter in more than a century. The last time it was this frigid was at the end of the last Little Ice Age around 1850...

On Jan. 4, Beijing suffered through its heaviest snowstorm since 1951.

Other parts of Asia have been hard-hit by unprecedented winter storms and record low temperatures. Seoul, South Korea, gauged an incredible 11 feet of snow in just 54 hours earlier this month, the most that city has seen since at least 1937...

http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2010/jan/21/parts...

quote:
over 1200 new cold and snow records set in the last week in the USA, more in progress
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2010/01/06/the-frigid-h...

quote:
MIAMI — Freakish cold weather continued to grip the southern United States, with snow flurries spotted around Orlando and a record low set for Miami
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,582738,00.html


RE: Misleading
By sigilscience on 1/25/2010 12:01:41 AM , Rating: 2
In re: to discrediting these UN scientists, I think they're doing that for themselves:

quote:
The scientist behind the bogus claim in [the IPCC Reports] that Himalayan glaciers will have melted by 2035 last night admitted it was included purely to put political pressure on world leaders.

Dr Murari Lal also said he was well aware the statement, in the 2007 report by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), did not rest on peer-reviewed scientific research.


The claim that Himalayan glaciers are set to disappear by 2035 rests on two 1999 magazine interviews with glaciologist Syed Hasnain, which were then recycled without any further investigation in a 2005 report by the environmental campaign group WWF. It was this report that Dr Lal and his team cited as their source.

The WWF article also contained a basic error in its arithmetic. A claim that one glacier was retreating at the alarming rate of 134 metres a year should in fact have said 23 metres – the authors had divided the total loss measured over 121 years by 21, not 121.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1245636/Gl...


Polar bear
By TheDoc9 on 1/22/2010 11:08:25 AM , Rating: 5
Polar bears swim to nearby ice burgs to hunt, the photos playing on peoples ignorance of this should be taken down as they are a blatant manipulation.

Also, the article exposes James Hansen's lack of credibility in one sentence. The y2k bug is a good excuse that might fool some people, but it's obviously a lie.

It's also nice to see you at least mentioned the researchers caught falsifying data, even if it was a fleeting gesture.




RE: Polar bear
By porkpie on 1/22/2010 12:39:54 PM , Rating: 2
BTW, just last week climate researchers were caught once AGAIN faking evidence for global warming:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/...

Would love to see a DT story on this...it also turns out that Raj Pauchari (the head of the UN IPCC) has been financially profiting from the claims he's been making about GW.


Global Warming
By Zoridon on 1/22/2010 12:49:39 PM , Rating: 5
I think its obvious that all you have to do is follow the money. Who stands to benefit from the lie that humans are responsible for global warming. As I see it Al Gore is near a billionair after a decade of preying on the useful idiots out there. I don't like pollution and when I build my retirement house in a few short years it will make most of the lip servis enviromentalist efforts to reduce their energy use look like a joke, but it will be with "real" technology not some fabricated propaganda "green" tech which if you follow the lifecycle of materials ends up causing more harm than good. Can anyone answer what would happen to all the batteries used in electric auto's if it were nation wide use? Are all those batteries "clean" or is it a future toxic nightmare waiting for my children due to the lack of ability for some pencil neck to consider the law of unintended consequences? My favorite quote comes to mind "The road to hell is paved with good intentions". BTW really serious about the battery question....




RE: Global Warming
By Grabo on 1/23/2010 7:36:11 PM , Rating: 2
Al Gore is the new Jesus Christ to some people. Or Satan?
Some never believed in either entity, but whatever.


Not Just Deceber
By clovell on 1/22/2010 11:01:22 AM , Rating: 2
DOn't forget the snow storm that blew through in April - it felt like this past year was actually rather cold - especially in the Chicago area.

I'm not trying to argue science with anecdote here, but I'm a bit surprised by this, and would love to see the data.




RE: Not Just Deceber
By Seemonkeyscanfly on 1/22/2010 11:17:33 AM , Rating: 2
"but I'm a bit surprised by this, and would love to see the data."

So would NASA love to see the data... just like those British scientist would have loved to see the data but since they could not truly find it they just created it...

We know the Earth goes through changes and by now we all should know it's an on going process... Either up or down but never stable - just slow changes compared to a human life. So, I wish they would just report data verse trying to find or create data to fit the models they have created...


RE: Not Just Deceber
By IcePickFreak on 1/22/2010 2:32:06 PM , Rating: 2
I agree, I'm up in the Milwaukee area and last summer was the most 'mild' and coolest summer me or many others around here can remember.


Warming? Cooling? 'AGW' or 'Climate Change'?
By croc on 1/22/2010 6:54:34 PM , Rating: 2
Personally, I don't really care. I won't live long enough for it to matter, to me anyway... And why should I give a **** about you? Your problem, mate... Deal with it. Stick your collective heads in the sand, go lemming-like and jump off of the nearest cliff, give all of your money to some agra company and develop a 'perfect monoculture'... I don't care. I won't be around to see the end of this 'Great Experiment'. And, NO, this is NOT sarcasm.




By Iketh on 1/22/2010 9:03:16 PM , Rating: 2
but you will reincarnate...


By Kurz on 1/23/2010 11:35:03 AM , Rating: 2
How about your children? Family?
Regardless on how the science turns out.


Selection of weather stations
By japlha on 1/22/2010 1:10:20 PM , Rating: 5
"In the 1970s, nearly 600 Canadian weather stations fed surface temperature readings into a global database assembled by the U.S. National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA). Today, NOAA only collects data from 35 stations across Canada."

"Mr. D'Aleo and Mr. Smith say NOAA and another U.S. agency, the NASA Goddard Institute for Space Studies (GISS), have not only reduced the number of Canadian weather stations in the database, but have "cherry picked" the ones that remain by choosing sites in relatively warmer places, including more southerly locations, or sites closer to airports, cities or the sea-- which has a warming effect on winter weather."

http://www.nationalpost.com/news/canada/story.html...




By tharik on 1/22/2010 2:07:32 PM , Rating: 5
I have read that some of the thermometers they use are very close to the exhausts of buildings. They are suppose to be at least 500 feet away from any building.

And no doubt if you had web cams keeping an eye on them you would probably see Al Gore holding a lighter under one of them!




Oh noes!
By wavebossa on 1/22/2010 3:06:27 PM , Rating: 5
Let me get this straight.

This is the same Earth thaaaaat:

1) Had at least 2 major ice ages with no human assistance

2) Had faaaar more CO2 in the air in the 1920s-1950s but experienced global cooling (damn el nino ;) instead of warming.

3) Was predicted to be heading into an iceaege only 15 years ago.

Yeah, go ride a bike and paint your road white and stop breathing so heavily!... because its just so OBVIOUS that we are heading for a global meltdown... -.-




So lemme get this straight...
By Jeff7181 on 1/22/2010 4:37:15 PM , Rating: 5
We've been recording temperatures since 1880 and now it's 2010... so 130 years of global temperature data.

The Earth is estimated to be about 4,550,000,000 years old leaving 4549999870 years of data unaccounted for. So this is significant how?




Exactly how did NASA record data in 1880?
By SgtTech on 1/22/2010 3:02:30 PM , Rating: 2
I find it interesting that NASA has data going back to 1880, exactly how did they do that when they did not exist until 1958?

Exactly how accurate were the measuring devices in 1880?

Finally, if you are for or against global warming, exactly how is anything they have proposed going to stop the current trend of more CO2 or other man made emissions?

What we need is a power source with no emissions and is infinite in capacity.




By sapiens74 on 1/22/2010 3:46:53 PM , Rating: 2
God is an unlimited power source.

We just choose not to use him :)


Is it just me?
By NesuD on 1/22/2010 3:54:38 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
2009 was in a tie with 1998, 2002, 2003, 2006, and 2007 for second hottest year on record. It failed to break the record heat set in 2005, though.


But doesn't this basically say that average Global temperatures have essentially been at worst static for more than a decade? I would venture that the trend is no longer a warming trend based on that data.




RE: Is it just me?
By JediJeb on 1/22/2010 6:10:36 PM , Rating: 2
I was thinking the same thing, if those are the second warmest on record, then the temperatures must be leveling out on an average. If the temp is the same in 5 of 12 years then it seems pretty stable to me.


By shin0bi272 on 1/22/2010 5:50:33 PM , Rating: 4
lets see its snowed in places where it had never snowed before and yet you tell us its getting warmer... How come I just dont believe you? We just had the coldest summer on record here in NC and you tell me its hotter than ever? Just STFU climate worshiper




I patent rocks and trees.
By JonnyDough on 1/25/2010 6:23:16 AM , Rating: 2
For a great book on how stupid this idea is (patenting genes) read Michael Crichton's "NEXT", especially the author's note at the end.




RE: I patent rocks and trees.
By JonnyDough on 1/25/2010 6:24:51 AM , Rating: 2
Oops, I posted to wrong article on accident. That's what happens when you step out of the room for a second with something on your mind. Moderators please delete these two posts?


All Data is not included
By owyheewine on 1/25/2010 3:40:18 PM , Rating: 2
Lots of conclusions can be reached when you select your data carefully. Just today this article was published.
Why anyone looking for the truth ever believes the Hansen clique I'll never know.
http://www.vancouversun.com/technology/Scientists+...




RE: All Data is not included
By whiskerwill on 1/25/2010 3:54:13 PM , Rating: 2
No one who listens to Hansen even cares about "truth". Ask them, and most will even admit they don't care if GW is true or not, they just feel its a proxy battle for reducing pollution and what they believe to be an overly industrial society.


By lenardo on 1/22/2010 11:58:35 AM , Rating: 3
the problem with this announcement is the # of stations used in said report. someone has to go through and foi the exact stations used in figuring this out and if they didn't count high elevation temp stations then they are lying.

weather is not climate, but this past year, in the NE of the usa it was significantly cooler than normal, yet their temp anomoly charts -for the most part- showed this same area being significantly warmer.

we need a DO OVER with people who have an unbiased and nonpolitical positions to redo ALL temp data..




What no one ever mentions
By porkpie on 1/22/2010 12:23:01 PM , Rating: 3
If CO2 is the reason for global warming, why did half of the warming occur between 1880 and 1940, when the planet's carbon emissions were about 1% of what they are today?

As for this year being the "second warmest on record", you can play all sorts of games with statistics depending on how you weight them. We broke more than 4X as many cold-weather records this year as we did hot-weather records, and even the UN's own scientists are now admitting that cooling has set in:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-124...




By spkay on 1/22/2010 12:41:16 PM , Rating: 3
Long term climate data and statistical research have lost all credibility as far as I am concerned. The economic incentives for certain political interests to advance their "global warming econimic agenda" has pushed true science and methodical data analysis and peer reviewed findings out the window for good at this point.

And the real problem with that is there are so many REAL problems with local or regional impact, i.e. waste site contamination, air quality issues, noise pollution, habitat reduction/elimination, etc. And when many of these REAL issues provide solid data to try and advance policies for change or correction too many people will start to turn a deaf ear to all the "scientific data" because of the degraded value due to half-baked theories like the global warming alarmism, being touted as universally supported, scientifically undeniable fact.




Oh so now it's warming
By TSS on 1/22/2010 1:36:05 PM , Rating: 3
I just spent 3 weeks walking through the same snow freezing my ass off. The last time i saw the same snow for multiple days was when i was 5. And at the time, it stayed for 5 days. And it wasn't so cold.

I was freakin ice skating on the streets! Where was this global warming then, huh? I really hope this year will be the coldest on record for a few decades so we can get this idiocy over with.




Who is John Galt?
By hiscross on 1/22/2010 2:51:29 PM , Rating: 3
Scott Brown. He making a lot of people Hot right now.




Accuracy
By drycrust3 on 1/24/2010 2:23:33 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
global surface temperatures jump 0.36 degrees F (0.2 degrees C) per decade


My casual observation of published temperatures are they are rounded to the nearest degree, not to the nearest 1/10th. While I don't have a problem with processing temperatures to 8 decimal places (or how ever many you want), I do have a problem when the final answer has more decimal places than the resolution of the original data.
In addition, we are making judgments on data that could easily have been collected with different standards, thus a temperature measured in one place or time may have quite a different meaning from an identical result in another place or time
As an example of this, I read in a statistics book about an obscure town in America that suddenly became famous because every night their temperature was the "warmest place in America today" in the nightly weather results. This came about because their thermometer had been shifted from being in the normal well ventilated, out of direct sunlight, etc, to something like being in direct sunlight. Some years later (note the "years" bit), the thermometer was shifted back into a normal position and the town disappeared into obscurity.
This case illustrates to us that while there are standards for the placement of a thermometer, there isn't (or wasn't) any importance placed upon correcting a non-standard placement. Nor do we know if there is a standard to remove results from the general pool where the thermometer doesn't adhere to the right standards.
We could even go further and ask if the time the temperatures are taken is strictly set for each locality or by just the local standard time. If the temperature is supposed to be taken at 3 pm, that has a huge variation in meaning because on the east side of that time zone the sun is at a different angle from on the western side of the time zone. Not being an astronomer my mathematics will be wrong, but as a guide the earth rotates (relative to the sun) 360 deg in 24 hours, thus the sun moves 15 degrees every hour. Therefore, there can be a 15 degree variation in the angle of the sun between the west side of that time zone to the east.
I'm not knocking the idea of a global surface temperature, but if we round the 0.2 degrees to the nearest degree, we just get 0.




LOL
By Soldier1969 on 1/22/2010 9:37:51 PM , Rating: 3
I call BS! I remember some really cool days back In July which by record was the coldest July on record! Global warming my arse!




RE: LOL
By SiliconAddict on 1/23/10, Rating: -1
Sigh..
By Grabo on 1/23/2010 11:05:07 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
While this latest data is unlikely to change the minds of biased parties on either side of the debate much,


Too true.

Still, it seems 94% of DT's posters like acting like they got handed to the wolves by their mothers when a flaw in any scientist who says the earth is getting warmer's methods surface - even if they never believed a word of what this scientist said. Hypocrites much?

Same old tired arguments over and over too, and it doesn't matter what NASA or anyone else says. Any scientist / institution who states anything akin to 'Mankind can in fact affect the climate in a significant way' is discredited. Who can you people trust? Besides the gun under your pillow. Ach.




Climate change skeptics
By killerclick on 1/23/10, Rating: 0
RE: Climate change skeptics
By islseur on 1/23/2010 5:32:27 PM , Rating: 2
haha what a joke... no seriously this one has one wire in the head to hold his ears and still tries something.. hahaha no hahahahaahahahaaha...


you mean this NASA?
picture of the polar bear
By spepper on 1/23/2010 2:55:54 PM , Rating: 2
way to go, whoever included the picture of the polar bear to this article-- very thinly veiled attempt to emotionalize the whole subject-- there's way too much at stake here to inject hysteria into the process: OUR VERY FREEDOM for one, against those who would impose "global governance" on individual sovereign nations via carbon footprint taxing-- just google the whole term, and see who's names are associated with quoting it: Obama, Holdren, Gore, Soros, Strong, Ban Ki "Sailor" Moon, the usual elitist suspects-- oh and by the way, that polar bear floating in the icy water? It's there by choice, hunting for food-- not because of being stranded due to driving SUV's!




Just More Lies...
By mmatis on 1/24/2010 8:48:21 PM , Rating: 2
from the lying liars:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1245636/Gl...

Wonder how long it will take for ABCNNBCBS or the New York Slimes/WaPo/LA Slimes to decide this is "news"? Of course, their lips are so lovingly stuck to the Head Nanny What's In Charge that it's impossible for them to even SEE anything else.




Please learn to write
By ggordonliddy on 1/24/2010 9:43:36 PM , Rating: 2
How can we take you seriously when you don't care enough to adhere to basic rules of grammar? A number of your sentences do not make sense without the reader reconstructing them.

(I'm not talking about simple typos, which everyone makes - including myself. I'm guessing you are a product of public schools, who will pass almost anyone.)




RE
By bill3 on 1/25/2010 8:05:05 AM , Rating: 2
Nasa: 2009 was the 2nd hottest year on record.

Skeptics: Can we see the data?

Nasa: No! Now shutup you peon and stop trying to impede science. Just bow down to Obama and your corporate masters that have trillions riding on this.

LOL.

The cool thing is Mick, it is the EPA and climate change regulations that are destroying the economy, and it is the destroyed economy that is going to spell doom for the Democrats in the 2010 elections. Nifty catch 22 aye?




And Yet Still More...
By mmatis on 1/25/2010 11:26:47 AM , Rating: 2
1998, 2002, 2003, 2006 and 2009
By deeznuts on 1/25/2010 2:18:54 PM , Rating: 2
Throw in the years that were cooler, and the year that it was hotter, sounds like a stable global temperature to me for the past 12-14 years to me ;)

No mention that 1998 and 2009 were El Nino (typically hotter) years?

I'm no Scientist though, so what do I know? Although being a scientist isn't exactly an enduring credential in global temperature fields.




Odd Timing for this Article
By callmeroy on 1/25/2010 2:33:12 PM , Rating: 2
Odd timing for me to find this article on DT today, just last week my group went out to lunch because one of the guys was moving on to another job. One of the topics of conversation? Everyone talking about how MILD this last summer was. Now I read that 2009 was one of the hottest...odd.

Aside from that I was laughing at the number of comments to this article after initially only reading the headline. Good ol' global warming -- guaranteed to start fires!




warmest decade on record?
By physics geek on 1/25/2010 4:25:54 PM , Rating: 2
There are good reasons not to trust the GISS data. I direct you to http://chiefio.wordpress.com/2010/01/08/ghcn-giste... and http://chiefio.wordpress.com/2009/10/27/ghcn-up-no...

But hey, why let facts confuse the issue? And please continue to ignore the downwards trend the past decade, which you can find from the data here: http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/oa/climate/research/cag3/...




Why the Polar Bear Pic?
By just4U on 1/26/2010 3:26:49 AM , Rating: 2
I find it interesting that the polar bears are pictured so much in global warming stories. Almost as a sympathetic gesture to garner support for their supposed plight maybe.

What people need to know is that the Polar bear population is thriving right now. Their numbers are greater then they have been in 40 years.




Global warming???
By FelixSHH on 1/26/2010 8:41:45 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
While the Earth's temperature has been much higher in the ancient past, the Earth also would have been far less hospitable to the human population had they existed at the time (for example in the Permian period, 300 million years ago). Thus it is critical to determine whether man is playing a role in warming, and what steps if any mankind can take to keep temperatures within a hospitable range. That is a topic that demands legitimate, unbiased research.


Actually only in a "short" periode approx. 450mio years ago it was colder that today... so when its getting hotter thats more than normal. Besides it also comes down to the perception of humans. When the temperature declined in the 40th to 70th I can recall there were a lot of media and movies on upcoming ice ages. Now, after 30 years of temperatur increases we get the opposite.
But when you are such a political correct, nature loving human your perception narrows a bit too much... in my humble, personal opinion!




A load of bunk!
By chunkymonster on 1/22/2010 11:27:03 AM , Rating: 1
Recent evidence of falsifying records, manipulating test data, the emails implying back room shenanigans between researchers and global warming supporters combined with the recent admission by the UN Climate Council regarding the melting of glaciers having no actual science to back up the report, make the entire global warming debate nothing more than hyperbole and conjecture. What a load of bunk!

The idea of global warming and anyone who actually supports the theory at this stage can take their evidence and so-called science and just piss off!

Might as well debate evolution vs creation!




Wow.... just wow
By Makius777 on 1/23/2010 4:05:40 AM , Rating: 1
Sorry dude but I have a hard time listening to anyone that attaches a picture of a polar bear swimming around in some broke up ice to an article on Global Warming; no matter which side you support.

Your as bad as Al Gore.




Oh no?
By rudolphna on 1/23/2010 9:31:27 AM , Rating: 1
If you live in the northeast, look at the winter we've had so far. We have had one, maybe 2 significant snowfalls. I know here in upstate new york by this time of year we usually have at least 2 feet on the ground. I can look out my window and see grass in spots. Very, very unusual for this time of the year.




Really?
By TheRequiem on 1/22/10, Rating: -1
RE: Really?
By Expunged on 1/22/10, Rating: 0
RE: Really?
By chromal on 1/22/2010 10:55:48 AM , Rating: 4
quote:
Let me guess, they deleted the data sets used to create this report because they didn't have enough space to store the data.

That sure could be convenient for the skeptics, but, had you read thoroughly, you'd've also read:

quote:
Unlike the Britain's Climate Research Unit, subject to the recent scandal, NASA's Goddard Center uses publicly available data, so scientists and armchair observers alike can analyze the reports and comb them for any possible errors. The data used comes from over a thousand meteorological stations around the world, satellite observations of sea surface temperatures, and Antarctic research station measurements.


RE: Really?
By BladeVenom on 1/22/2010 11:08:16 AM , Rating: 3
It's not like NASA hasn't changed past data, or been wrong for current data.
http://www.dailytech.com/Blogger+Finds+Y2K+Bug+in+...
http://www.dailytech.com/Deja+Vu+All+Over+Again+Bl...


RE: Really?
By chromal on 1/22/2010 11:19:27 AM , Rating: 5
Yes, but, and this is the nice thing about public data, if they are, someone will theoretically find the problem. That is, if anyone's looking. But it's the way science should be done: in the open.


RE: Really?
By porkpie on 1/22/2010 12:28:11 PM , Rating: 2
When articles like this say "NASA", they really mean GISS, an office at Columbia University which became affiliated with NASA. GISS is run by Jim Hanson, a personal friend of Al Gore's, and one of the biggest global warming fanatics on the planet.

BTW, several groups have pointed out countless problems with GISS's use of "public data". GISS massages the raw data with tens of thousands of weighting factors and other spurious corrections before they release their "corrected dataset". The warming trend in the raw data stopped in 1998...but their data keeps getting hotter and hotter.


RE: Really?
By Ramon on 1/22/2010 2:27:21 PM , Rating: 5
Nasa uses NOAA data. Check out this article on NOAA. http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/01/climategate...


RE: Really?
By kattanna on 1/22/2010 3:03:46 PM , Rating: 5
its stories like that that make baby jesus cry so much he floods several south pacific islands.

but seriously, reading over their "method" is both scary and sad.


RE: Really?
By WalksTheWalk on 1/22/10, Rating: 0
RE: Really?
By WalksTheWalk on 1/22/10, Rating: 0
RE: Really?
By WalksTheWalk on 1/22/10, Rating: 0
RE: Really?
By porkpie on 1/22/2010 4:07:37 PM , Rating: 2
"NASA's a joke. Why don't you go overspend more US tax money. :) "

Don't blame all of NASA. It's just GISS which (as I pointed out in another post) is really just a few guys in an office at Columbia University that get to call themselves NASA. There's plenty of current and ex-NASA scientists that are laughing at the shenanigens being pulled by the clowns at GISS.


RE: Really?
By islseur on 1/23/10, Rating: -1
RE: Really?
By sigmatau on 1/22/10, Rating: 0
RE: Really?
By RufusM on 1/23/2010 10:47:13 AM , Rating: 1
I think the problem is: What is considered a reasonable measurement for climate?

Weather is short term, climate is long term. How can we know we are accurately measuring humanity's impact on climate when we don't have a large enough view of the earth's overall climate before humanity and its changes over time? There is just way too much uncertainty to make sweeping changes to government policy or the economy based on this data.


RE: Really?
By SPOOFE on 1/24/2010 1:14:27 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
You will just say something like the Earth is constantly changing so we must not know

Really? That's the entirety of the disagreement? Are you sure there aren't valid concerns over the accuracy - even the practically achievability of accuracy - of the data? Are you sure there's not a pile of reasons to suspect the claims that man is a direct cause of global climate change?

You seem capable of recognizing that acquiring accurate data is immensely difficult, yet you deride people that are acting as if acquiring accurate data is immensely difficult. Huh?


RE: Really?
By Mitch101 on 1/22/2010 3:47:13 PM , Rating: 2
Yup Seems every time I watch the news and see someone talking about a drought its almost followed by a story about a town being flooded with more than their average rainfall.

I will also add that in those 4 billion years a lot of continents are located in new places on the globe. The Earth is consistently changing. Because your losing shoreline or get hurricanes in a specific area is just one method mother nature makes those changes.


RE: Really?
By Grabo on 1/23/2010 7:29:16 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
The earth is over 4 billion years old. Call me when you have several thousand years of data and we'll talk. Five or ten year averages over one hundred years of data mean jack-squat!


Lol..invent a time machine and go back a couple of thousand years and invent the satellite then?

Scientists do what they can with the tools they have. If you disbelieve NASA; then post a reference (preferrably one that hasn't been discredited a hundred times) that says they are liars and crooks.

By your line of reasoning, you'd still hardly believe the earth was flat, or that evolution happens. There isn't "thousands of years of data" to support either fact.

"Weather is not climate. " - What does that even mean?


RE: Really?
By Reclaimer77 on 1/23/2010 7:48:16 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
By your line of reasoning, you'd still hardly believe the earth was flat, or that evolution happens. There isn't "thousands of years of data" to support either fact.


There isn't ??


RE: Really?
By RufusM on 1/23/2010 10:21:37 PM , Rating: 4
quote:
By your line of reasoning, you'd still hardly believe the earth was flat, or that evolution happens. There isn't "thousands of years of data" to support either fact.


There's a problem with your logic. Someone can measure the globe and determine that it's round just like the temperature can be measured which shows that it's warming (assuming that honest and accurate measurements are taken).

The problem comes in the assertion that people are causing the temperature change. Even if there is a correlation in CO2 increases and temperature that does not mean one causes the other. For example, suppose I take measurements showing a strong correlation between cold weather and an increase in retail sales in the US. Based on the raw data, that correlation would be true but it would be false for me to conclude that cold weather causes the increase in sales. If I did not due my scientific due diligence, I could further assert that we need to make summers colder to increase retail sales in the summer.

Given that example, we know that winter holidays cause the increase in retail sales in the US. Winter holidays were not taken into account when analyzing the data. Likewise, the correlation between carbon in the atmosphere and temperature change does take other possible sources of warming into account: winds, solar radiation, geologic activity, water temperature, proximity of measurement instruments to other warming sources, etc.


RE: Really?
By sigmatau on 1/22/10, Rating: 0
RE: Really?
By Screwballl on 1/23/10, Rating: 0
RE: Really?
By mattclary on 1/24/2010 4:09:23 PM , Rating: 2
Not when they refuse to release the data:

http://www.investors.com/NewsAndAnalysis/Article.a...


RE: Really?
By Bonesdad on 1/23/2010 11:04:42 AM , Rating: 3
yeah, just like NASA lied about putting a man on the moon, several times.


RE: Really?
By islseur on 1/23/2010 5:28:15 PM , Rating: 1
While NASA's lying history is relevant. A more relevant is the recent Sep 11 shooting by NASA's clown boss. While they took control of the bus and shoot some people and driving us of the cliff while on the other hand trying to impose a bus wide carbon emissions footprint tax so you couldn't afford a fire fart on youtube to promote yourself no more.
disclaimer4hardminded: bus=world, clown=elite, cliff=new system.


RE: Really?
By JS on 1/24/2010 9:13:53 PM , Rating: 2
Hats! Hats! Come get yer tin foil hats!


RE: Really?
By Grabo on 1/23/2010 11:25:28 AM , Rating: 1
You have proof Mr McIntyre never worked or is working for the mining industry* and that he doesn't continually attack perceived critical flaws** in GISTEMP etc of course, while Al Gore on the other hand is absolutely everywhere. Shoo Lion's Mane, the size of mr Gore's tentacles have got you beat.

The fact that anything critical of climate science that says that mankind affects the climate gets rated to 5 in an instant, nevermind if it is along the lines of 'my dead cat sais their all liars i know eyes green dead cat says', says something about the vast majority of DT's readers.

*http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2004...

**http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2007...


RE: Really?
By porkpie on 1/23/2010 11:54:59 AM , Rating: 2
"You have proof Mr McIntyre never worked or is working for the mining industry*"

McIntyre is retired from the mining industry. He doesn't make a penny from his data analyses. On the other hand, Al Gore and Raj Pauchari (not to mention most of the staff of Real Climate) are CURRENTLY raking in large sums of cash from the GW scare.

So, who has more motivation to twist the truth here?

"The fact that anything critical of climate science [is] rated to 5 in an instant...says something about the vast majority of DT's readers."

Yep. It shows they're just like the average resident of the planet, the vast majority of which are increasingly critical of the AGW sham.


RE: Really?
By Grabo on 1/23/10, Rating: -1
RE: Really?
By SPOOFE on 1/24/2010 1:17:28 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
What does it matter if he's retired?

It doesn't matter either way, as long as his work is accurate. Do you have some reason to suspect that his work is not accurate? Please, share with the class.


RE: Really?
By SPOOFE on 1/24/2010 1:19:20 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
most don't refer to Mr gore.

You don't know what you're talking about. Al Gore's been a significant figure in the environmental movement for almost thirty years, now. It's only recently that he's made a name in the Jaded/Hipster "I'm only political enough to get laid but not vote" crowd.


RE: Really?
By Expunged on 1/22/2010 2:40:51 PM , Rating: 4
I did read thoroughly, I however have very little faith in anything reported by Jason that has to do with Global Warming. Furthermore, the Goddard Center may have used public data, but did they use ALL the publicly available data?

quote:
The data used comes from over a thousand meteorological stations around the world, satellite observations of sea surface temperatures, and Antarctic research station measurements.


Over a thousand meteorological stations from around the world, that makes me feel good since there are well over 1000 meteorological stations just within the United States.

https://mi3.ncdc.noaa.gov/mi3report/mshr/mshr_full...

Not to mention that not all weather stations are installed, operated, maintained and calibrated with the same standards or equipment. To conclude that the results are accurate from a weather station in Syberia that is only visited once every five years is like concluding that the closet must be dark because the lights were off last time you were in there.

Therefore, I have to question this report was drafted and then the data was evaluated to find weather stations that would provide the results the report was attempting to demonstrate. Everybody is grinding an axe, NASA, NOAA, Al Gore, Obama, Bush, even George Washington had an axe to grind and you have to carefully study everything to understand the basis of what is stated. Their report might be totally accurate with the data sets they used but that doesn't mean the report is totally accurate overall.


RE: Really?
By xmichaelx on 1/22/2010 3:07:58 PM , Rating: 2
Yes, it's all a vast conspiracy to...well...improve air quality and end dependence on foreign oil, I guess.

Will these do-gooders stop at nothing!


RE: Really?
By porkpie on 1/22/2010 3:15:27 PM , Rating: 4
If Al Gore really believed in "improved air quality", he wouldn't have been using 50 times as much energy as the average family of 4, or flying in his private jet to rake in millions in speaking fees.

If these "do-gooders" really wanted to end dependence on foreign oil, they'd let us drill for oil here in the US, instead of putting hundreds of billions of barrels off-limits, and forcing us to buy overseas.


RE: Really?
By Performance Fanboi on 1/22/2010 4:04:25 PM , Rating: 2
Don't forget that these 'Do-Gooders' are also preventing the use of Nuclear power which causes a lot of clean (lol) coal to be burned. The Al Gore example is the best - the true inconvenient truth is that Mr. Gore's carbon footprint is probably 10 times that of my family of 6. If he believed his own hype wouldn't he do something about that?


RE: Really?
By JediJeb on 1/22/2010 5:02:43 PM , Rating: 2
Oh but he does, he buys carbon credits to offset his higher CO2 emissions.


RE: Really?
By Kurz on 1/23/2010 11:36:08 AM , Rating: 1
Please... don't bring in that fiddle faddle of Carbon Credits.


RE: Really?
By Squilliam on 1/22/2010 4:47:28 PM , Rating: 2
I wonder if we'll be experiencing 'cooling on a global scale sufficient to threaten human life' if these agencies were funded based on how cold the earth was seen to be getting rather than how warm.


RE: Really?
By sigmatau on 1/22/10, Rating: -1
RE: Really?
By JediJeb on 1/22/2010 5:49:09 PM , Rating: 3
I wouldn't think he needs to go to those extremes, but surely he could cut back on the electricity bill at his house and fly commmercial flights to help save a little energy.

quote:
Yes the Earth may be over 4 billion years old, but civilization is only in the tens of thousands of years old. The data is still valid.


Depends on what the data is being used for. Basic science and math classes will tell you that the data set is somewhat small for what is trying to be proven. It's like saying that in October 2008 the stock market was at an all time high when you start your data set in August of 2008. If you start in May 2008 you would have a completely different conclusion about the status of the stock market in October 2008.

quote:
Give me a break. Go back to supporting Sarah Palin with your lack of basic understanding of science and math


I have a very advanced understanding of science and math and I would still support Sarah Palin in some matters( not all but some). Anyone who has to use an attack such as that is a desparate person indeed.


RE: Really?
By porkpie on 1/22/2010 5:59:05 PM , Rating: 5
"Yes, Al Gore should live in a cabin and walk to his conferences that are thousands of miles away"

Does he need to take a private jet to go address a crowd on the dangers of carbon emissions? Does he need a house that burns 50X the electricity of a normal family, if he really thought the world was in danger? Would he buy a condo 50 feet from the Pacific Ocean....if he really thought sea level was going to rise dramatically?

Try again.

"The Earth may be over 4 billion years old, but civilization is only in the tens of thousands of years old."

And only a thousand years ago during the Medieval Warm Period it was warmer than it is today. And guess what? Civilization flourished.

" The data is still valid. "

Haven't you read any of the links people have been providing? The data is NOT valid? Its been changed, fudged, altered, folded, spindled, and mutilated. Faked.


RE: Really?
By Camikazi on 1/23/2010 4:07:11 PM , Rating: 2
Well he could get a house that is much smaller and much more energy efficient, cause I'm sure he doesn't need that HUGE house and would love to get a smaller one to save energy. As far as the walking thing goes, are you serious? all people mean is he can use commercial flights and NOT add another unneeded plane into the air adding pollution.


RE: Really?
By SPOOFE on 1/24/2010 1:22:42 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Yes, it's all a vast conspiracy to...well...improve air quality and end dependence on foreign oil, I guess.

If that's the point, why all this nonsense about global climate change and melting glaciers and Saving The Polar Bears What Don't Need SavingTM?

I think you'll find that a lot of people that rail against the AGW pushers are also people that heavily support clean air and water and would love to not worry about OPEC's whims when it comes to prices of crude. One doesn't have to buy every line item put out by the tree-huggers; those of sound critical mind can understand that one can control pollution of one's environment without setting up a psycho cult mentality.


RE: Really?
By mmatis on 1/22/2010 6:33:16 PM , Rating: 2
You might want to start with this:
http://surfacestations.org/

And from page 9 of the report:

"The missing Marysville data (14 of 31 days) led me to research how missing data was dealt with in the climate record. I learned about a data algorithm used by NCDC called FILNET, short for Fill Missing Original Data in the Network, that is used to “infill” missing data using interpolations of data from surrounding stations. After reading about it, I came to the conclusion that NCDC uses
FILNET to create “missing” data where none was ever actually measured.
I looked up FILNET and, sure enough, missing data are created from nearby station estimates. According to a government report, estimates for missing data are provided using a procedure similar to that used in SHAP [Station History Adjustment Program]. This adjustment uses the debiased data from the SHAP and fills in missing original data when needed (i.e. calculates estimated data) based on a “network” of the best correlated nearby stations. The FILNET program also completed the data adjustment process for stations that moved too often for SHAP to estimate the adjustments needed to debias the data.4"

Same crock of crap showcased by the University of East Anglia CRU and Penn State. Lying sewage sucking for everything they can destroy.


RE: Really?
By bug77 on 1/22/2010 11:14:27 AM , Rating: 5
Not necessarily twisted, but look at this: "The data used comes from over a thousand meteorological stations around the world, satellite observations of sea surface temperatures, and Antarctic research station measurements."

That would be (some of) Antarctica, (some of) the sea surface and a handful of meteorological stations. Over a thousand stations looks like a lot, but this actually means that if you put them all on the equator, they'd be spaced around 40km apart. Now consider that you also need to cover latitude and altitude and the number suddenly seems awfully low. From here, statistics teach us that with "careful" selection, you can prove pretty much anything.


RE: Really?
By AlexWade on 1/22/2010 11:39:52 AM , Rating: 5
John Coleman, the founder of the Weather Channel but now the meteorologist for KUSI in San Diego, says that NASA GISS selectively deleted stations to fit their agenda. Below is the video of that. This is a very serious allegation that, if true, would mean the public data is not to be trusted because it is incomplete. It also is scientific fraud.

http://www.kusi.com/weather/colemanscorner/8155921...

The full hour-long show is here:

http://www.kusi.com/weather/colemanscorner/8158335...


RE: Really?
By Janooo on 1/22/2010 2:03:11 PM , Rating: 4
... and today I was reading this:
quote:
In the 1970s, nearly 600 Canadian weather stations fed surface temperature readings into a global database assembled by the U.S. National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA). Today, NOAA only collects data from 35 stations across Canada.

Worse, only one station -- at Eureka on Ellesmere Island -- is now used by NOAA as a temperature gauge for all Canadian territory above the Arctic Circle.

The Canadian government, meanwhile, operates 1,400 surface weather stations across the country, and more than 100 above the Arctic Circle, according to Environment Canada.


http://www.montrealgazette.com/technology/Scientis...


RE: Really?
By dragonbif on 1/22/10, Rating: 0
RE: Really?
By Regs on 1/22/2010 12:03:18 PM , Rating: 2
As Mark Twain once said there are 3 types of lies: "lies, damn lies, and statistics".

Not saying Earth is experiencing a climate shift or change, I truely do not care because we won't be able to do anything about it for the next couple of thousand years.


RE: Really?
By BZDTemp on 1/24/2010 8:04:53 AM , Rating: 1
Unless the measuring station are moved around 1000 of them will do fine. And moving is one of things not done with weather stations


RE: Really?
By porkpie on 1/24/2010 11:34:18 AM , Rating: 3
Actually, weather stations ARE moved. That's one of the documented problems with the datasets. Read any of the analysis reports. When a station is moved, GISS makes a manual "adjustment" to what they believe will correct the data back to a fair value. Suspiciously enough, nearly all their corrections lead to making the data warmer.

And even when the station isn't moved, things move around it -- such as a station that 50 years ago was in an empty field, and now is right next to black asphalt pavement, and hot a/c vents.

Right now GISS is taking temperature readings for the entire state of California with just THREE stations. Worse, all those stations are in warm areas near the water, and they're comparing that average temperature to older data which includes stations in cold mountain regions. No wonder the state is showing a "warming trend".


RE: Really?
By DrKlahn on 1/22/2010 11:51:37 AM , Rating: 5
Where? We had 1 day over 90* in July which is usually well over 90* for most of the month. August, September and October were all below average (one of the coldest Octobers I can remember). November and December 20* below average with far above average snowfall. To be fair January has been slightly above average. But then these are just real world observations, I'm sure the "data" supports whatever will get them funding.

Figures don't lie, but liars can figure.


RE: Really?
By ClownPuncher on 1/22/2010 2:39:57 PM , Rating: 2
Since we are being anecdotal, 15 minutes east of Seattle we had several days over 100, hitting 106 one day in 2009. Hottest ever record in the history of the area. Yesterday it was 58F, sunny. This winter, we have very little snow in the mountains, the Winter Olympics are having snow manufactured because lower British Columbia doesn't have snow either.

Does that prove AGW? Nope, not at all.


RE: Really?
By Lazarus Dark on 1/22/2010 9:00:25 PM , Rating: 2
I was thinking this was one of the milder years in my memory actually.


RE: Really?
By Reclaimer77 on 1/23/2010 9:58:03 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
That is a topic that demands legitimate, unbiased research.


You know what Mick, this is also a topic that demands legitimate, unbiased journalism. This article, once again, is an affront to those qualities.

Honestly how can you sit there and sleep at night writing this crap without even bringing up "Climategate" ?? Or that fact that 2009 shattered COLD weather records as well, especially across two thirds of the entire United States this winter. The country supposedly "most responsible" for AWG ?

You challenge nothing. You blindly cherry pick for stories that support your own personal agenda.


RE: Really?
By SPOOFE on 1/24/2010 1:26:35 PM , Rating: 2
Are you finding some severe lack of stories in the media - mainstream or otherwise - that don't support the fanciful notion of man-made global climate change?


RE: Really?
By Screwballl on 1/23/2010 10:31:35 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
I wonder how much these results were twisted?


agreed.... considering right here in Florida, this was the shortest and coolest Summer on record for the past 40 years.

1) Temperatures did not start to rise until mid April instead of the usual early March...
2) We never saw any days over 95 degrees which is not normal...
3) We got our first Winter cold fronts coming through as early as the beginning of October.
4) The summer temperatures averaged 5-10 degrees cooler, and the summer season was much shorter (Apr-Oct instead of Mar-Nov)
5) After almost 12 years in a drought, the area is getting back to normal humidity and rainfall totals, like what were seen in the cooler 1970s
6) hurricanes have been fewer and weaker than historical average

So someone definitely fudged some numbers to keep Al Gores legacy going:

Nasa's Goddard Institute for Space Studies (GISS) is run by Al Gore's chief scientific ally, Dr James Hansen


RE: Really?
By Screwballl on 1/23/2010 11:22:37 AM , Rating: 2
There are 4 levels of planetary temperature variations:
Tiny, Minor, Median and Major

*Tiny are these small 40 year swings, the 1890s was a peak cool, 1930s were peak warm, 1970s were peak cool, 2010 is peak warm, 2050 will be peak cool. These are only minor variations that most people may see a slightly warmer or slightly cooler few years compared to previous years

*For minor, this swing is around 400 years. Since year 1000 AD (and these are +/- 50 years):

1000-1400 was warm period, peaked around 1200. This was when Vikings were documented to have ranches and farming establishments on Greenland.
1400-1850 was a cool period, peaked around 1600 (Little Ice Age)
1850-2250 will be the warm period, peak around 2000 to 2050

So this means around the years 2200-2300 will be the start of the next "little ice age". This is only the minor temperature swing of around 2-3ºC +/-.

*Then there is a 20,000 year median swing which can vary between temperatures currently at the peak, down to global ice age. We are around year 18,000 of the 20,000 swing.. so that means around the year 4000 will be the start of the next median ice age (major human life impact). By the year 14,000 A.D., if humans are still on this planet, we will be mostly dead due to the lack of food.... or possibly we will be at the Star Trek "food replicator" by that time.

*Then there is the massive swings of 100,000 years. Which at the peak heat is where we are now, and at the peak cold covers a majority of the globe in ice...


RE: Really?
By Sazar on 1/25/2010 4:35:50 PM , Rating: 2
There is only 1 flaw in your description.

The world is ending in 2012, all projections beyond that are useless -_-


Misleading Article Title
By dlapine on 1/22/10, Rating: -1
RE: Misleading Article Title
By porkpie on 1/22/2010 2:05:58 PM , Rating: 3
"A whole decade is not just a statistical blip"

You're right. temperatures have been DROPPING for the last decade:

http://www.drroyspencer.com/latest-global-temperat...

"1) data correlated from multiple sources- check"

Other posters have already given links to the proof that both the Hadley Center and GISS are systematically fudging their results. So much for the "correlated data".

2009 was not a "warm year". It snowed in Baghdad, ponds froze over in Miami, engine oil froze solid in Norway, and new cold weather records were set on six of the 7 continents. No matter how much the global warming fanatics at GISS want to fix their data, they can't hide the cold (very cold) hard facts.


RE: Misleading Article Title
By dlapine on 1/22/2010 2:31:18 PM , Rating: 4
Are you referring to Dr. Roy Spencer, member of the Heartland institute and Interfaith Stewardship Alliance? Author of the book, "Climate Confusion"? That Dr. Roy Spencer? The guy with the vested interest in supporting a anti-climate change position?

The website is providing temperature readings from:

"the satellite measurements are not calibrated in any way with the global surface-based thermometer record of temperature."

So exactly what is he measuring?

Other than to note that 1) he shows up on http://www.exxonsecrets.org/html/personfactsheet.p...

and 2) This is one ex-NASA scientist versus the current bunch of them.

Let's just say this guy's opinion isn't impressing me.

I'll just go on to note that this year I was playing frisbee golf outside in December in Wisconsin, and that tomorrow's forecast high for central Illinois is 48 degrees. And no, that's not normal for Champaign in January.


RE: Misleading Article Title
By porkpie on 1/22/2010 3:13:00 PM , Rating: 4
"The guy with the vested interest in supporting a anti-climate change position?"

What vested interest? Raj Pachauri, head of the UN IPCC is getting rich off global warming alarmism. Al Gore has made over 500 million dollars off it. Dr. Spencer hasn't made a penny.

Anyway, it's not his "opinion". It's a graph of actual temperature data. And unlike GISS's "data", its the real, raw data, not something that's been massaged, modified, and had thousands of "adjustments" added into it.


RE: Misleading Article Title
By daInvincibleGama on 1/22/10, Rating: 0
RE: Misleading Article Title
By porkpie on 1/22/2010 3:20:46 PM , Rating: 5
" it's not the end of the world that they took out a few outliers"

They didn't take out "a few outliers". They removed SEVENTY FIVE PERCENT of the monitoring stations in the world. The only stations they left in were in urban areas or ones close to the sea -- stations that would be sure to show warmer than average.

It gets worse. They they ADJUSTED the data from the stations they did leave in. Some stations had their actual temperature readings raised by half a degree or more. Why? If you ask them, they say its to "remove statistical bias"...but all their adjustments result in warmer values. Never colder.

"And honestly, there's more of an incentive to release a report that "debunks" global warming than to support it"

What planet are you from? Since the global warming craze began, funding for climate research has increased from a few paltry million to several BILLION dollars. If the alarmism ever stops, so does the gravy train.


RE: Misleading Article Title
By Looey on 1/22/2010 11:18:57 PM , Rating: 2
We had the 3rd coolest summer on record in Missouri and the Winter so far here has been extremely cold.


RE: Misleading Article Title
By Sazar on 1/25/2010 4:34:47 PM , Rating: 2
While using anecdotal evidence, we had a record-setting 60 straight days of 100+ F temperatures here in Austin, Texas. Hottest summer on record.


By The Imir of Groofunkistan on 1/22/2010 2:14:51 PM , Rating: 2
Please find the last decade on this timeline and then draw me a trend line of temperatures extrapolated out 100 years?

http://www.worsleyschool.net/science/files/time/li...


RE: Misleading Article Title
By clovell on 1/22/2010 3:43:03 PM , Rating: 2
No - a decade is hardly infallible. If the Romans had waited another year to kill Jesus, there'd be different data in that decade. A decade is an arbitrary construct - just like BMI categories. There's still a lot of potential for spin there.


I say we ignore it all.
By SiliconAddict on 1/23/10, Rating: -1
RE: I say we ignore it all.
By killerclick on 1/23/2010 1:29:34 PM , Rating: 3
That's not going to happen. In 30-40 years we'll have the technology to reverse climate change and in 70-80 years we won't even need a planet in order to survive. The positive effect of this global warming, climate change craze will be moving from energy sources that have no future (fossil fuels) to energy sources of the future (sun, wind, fusion, who knows what else). Fossil fuels have been responsible for millions of deaths both from pollution and from resource wars.


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