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Software Munich Begins Migration Towards Linux
Michael Hoffman (Blog) - September 23, 2006 8:23 AM
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German governments and schools are beginning to consider open source technology

Though a year later than planned and almost three years after the initial announcement of its plans to move to open source technology, the city of Munich has begun its migration to Linux and OpenOffice. The “Linux in Munich” initiative, also known as “Limux,” is designed around the idea that the Linux world will get larger, while the Windows world will begin to shrink. The first 100 of Munich's 14,000 PCs have successfully been switched from Microsoft Windows to Debian Linux with OpenOffice 2. The city will continue to use PCs powered by both Windows and Linux.

The team has created a set of guidelines that it believes will help while dealing with format conversion issues between Microsoft software and OpenOffice. A serious challenge the Limux team is facing is the transition from Windows to Linux with some of the city's larger public administration's departments.  Although it will be a challenge, the team doesn't expect too many problems arising due to the complex processes that the public administration's departments work with on their PCs.

The city hopes to have four out of every five PCs switched to open source technology by the end of 2008. The city doesn't plan on converting entirely to Linux.

Governments and schools across the world are beginning to consider open source technology as a viable alternative to the Windows operating system. India is the latest nation that looks like it could be a key operating system battleground.

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Wake up microsoft
By phatboye on 9/23/2006 2:01:48 PM , Rating: 2
Hopefully this will encourage Microsoft to lower the price of it's software. Most notably ms Office. If MS continues to charge an arm and a leg for Office eventually they will lose a large portion of it's marketshare to open sourced alternatives.




RE: Wake up microsoft
By hughlle on 9/23/2006 3:00:35 PM , Rating: 3
if i'm forced to use office its gonna be warez. i'm not paying 100 odd quyid for a word processor.

nationwide adoption of linux is brilliant


RE: Wake up microsoft
By tuteja1986 on 9/24/2006 5:46:50 AM , Rating: 2
School/Uni/Collage ect get Microsoft Software for free ;(


RE: Wake up microsoft
By Jeff7181 on 9/24/2006 8:58:14 PM , Rating: 2
Not free, it's built into your tuition. If you choose not to use it, and use an open source alternative, you're paying for it anyway.


RE: Wake up microsoft
By Spivonious on 9/25/2006 9:16:46 AM , Rating: 2
Actually, at my university only the comp sci students got free MS software through the MSDNAA. No extra costs, as our tuition was exactly the same as the art major or the meteorology major. Win XP Pro, VS.NET 2005, VM, SQL Server, Win Server, etc. No Office, but I'm quite happy with my Office 2000.


RE: Wake up microsoft
By umerok on 9/25/2006 11:30:26 AM , Rating: 2
I'm an IS major, under the business school. I get an MSDN membership, but the other business majors do not. I don't pay any more than they do. Same school, different major, lots of *complimentary* software! (but no Office)


RE: Wake up microsoft
By jb16 on 9/25/2006 1:26:55 AM , Rating: 2
Using Warez is ilegal. There is no force on this planet that could "force" you to use MsOffice. If you're going to whine about Microsoft at least be classy about it and do whatever it takes to get OpenOffice to work (I think it works great, although I think Office is slightly better...)

As time moves on the creative software companies are going to have to really address the issue of pirateability and competitive pricing.

There's no better feeling than knowing nobody has what you have for free. I know that piracy doesn't look like an ethical issue especially when you become an ideological zealot (e.g. hate Microsoft, love Microsoft) but it really is plain wrong.


RE: Wake up microsoft
By Spivonious on 9/25/2006 9:19:05 AM , Rating: 3
#1 Munich is not a nation. #2 Windows comes with a basic word processor: Wordpad. It might not do all the fancy things Word does, but how many of us actually use those fancy features? That said, I think it's good that a city is actually moving over to an alternative OS. Hopefully this will open the eyes of some of the users and they'll convert at home too.


RE: Wake up microsoft
By nomagic on 9/23/2006 3:25:02 PM , Rating: 2
The licence fee of MS software for government and school is already very low. In addition, MS software sometimes offer more functionality than open source alternatives. (ie. Office) Also, there is the cost of migration to different software. Therefore, there is no point for MS to offer its software at lower prices.

In fact, price is the last thing that MS should worry about. The problem is about open source itself. For large cities like Munich, the licence fee of MS software is so cheap that they dont worry about it. They move to open source software becuase they want OPEN SOURCE software, not because they want free software. There is nothing MS can do about it...

And by the way, munich is a city, not a nation.


RE: Wake up microsoft
By stmok on 9/23/2006 4:10:23 PM , Rating: 3
That's pretty much it. Educational institutions like schools and Universities get their MS software at virtually free prices. (In some businesses, there's deals such that the cost for each employee to take and use a copy for home, is like $20 or less. There are other cases where they will iterally give away their software, to encourage your business to adopt Microsoft solutions.)

When a business or organisation wants open-source, they either want the two major advantages it offers over what Microsoft can offer.

(1) Flexibility.
(2) Less restrictive License conditions.

Some businesses value (1) much more than any cost savings. In fact, being free ($0) is like a distant 2nd compared to flexibility.

When a business wants to modify the code for their needs, they need to go through MS's redtape of signing NDA's and such. They have to pay some sort of fee for the right to access it.

On the other hand, if they went with open-source solutions, all they need to do is understand the license that the code is under and see if its suitable for them. (There are more than one type of open-source license, so it depends on what what they feel is right for their business). As long as they follow them, no one is gonna care what they do with the code. (Its generally considered polite to share some of the stuff you put in, so everyone can enjoy the benefits).

The saving here, is that you don't need to pay anyone and sign an NDA to look at the code.

The most common reason given for Govt to switch to Linux seems to be they want to become less dependent on Microsoft. (China and South Korea's Army both echoed the same reason).

Its to do with redundancy. If one solution utterly fails, they need to have another one.


RE: Wake up microsoft
By NoSoftwarePatents on 9/24/2006 12:53:00 PM , Rating: 2
First, some organizations will pay for the idea of product support, even if it's not very good. Second, Microsoft is very good at marketing, and many non-technical decision makers are easily swayed by slick marketing tactics.

Microsoft is like a PC vendor selling a complete package, while Linux is more like you build-your-own PC instead using COTS parts and what have you.



RE: Wake up microsoft
By Calin on 9/25/2006 4:06:22 AM , Rating: 2
Microsoft is offering Windows/Office almost for free to big customers really really intending to go to the Linux/OpenOffice route (and you will be forced to pay to M$ for later updates and growing opportunities). This has happened before.


RE: Wake up microsoft
By inthell on 9/25/2006 8:29:05 AM , Rating: 2
uh, i got XP Pro for $20 from my college no complaints from me .. linux is great however well on my server it is anyway. wouldnt want it on my desktop PC.


It's all about the P(ost)MS
By faiakes on 9/24/2006 8:19:27 AM , Rating: 3
Even when MS gives its software at decent prices there are still disadvantages:

1) It is not that good. Office is good, everything else sucks.

2) Aftersales support. There is a lot of money in this and MS software being what it is, you can imagine the money MS is making.

3) Somebody mentioned this: restrictions.
Businesses/organisations need to alter/adapt the software to their needs, but in doing so would violate the service agreemets they have with MS = more cost.

That's why Munich is switching to Open Source. More stable networking and system controls, customisable and absolutely free Office. Even the afterservice is going to cost less.




RE: It's all about the P(ost)MS
By msftman19 on 9/24/2006 10:08:14 AM , Rating: 3
You're way off base on point #2 - support organizations (especially at Microsoft) are cost recovery at best. There's no money to be made on support. Now, services like consulting, that's a different story.

Free software is like a free puppy. Maybe you don't have any up front costs, but if you think that puppy isn't going to cost you a fortune during it's lifetime, you're either dreaming or irresponsible.


RE: It's all about the P(ost)MS
By MAIA on 9/24/06, Rating: 0
RE: It's all about the P(ost)MS
By jb16 on 9/25/2006 1:29:56 AM , Rating: 2
Well, I think the comparison with a free puppy is good. Although there really isn't that much data showing that Open Source would be pricier. Sometimes you get an expensive dog and they turn out terrible. Sometimes you get a free puppy and they are no trouble at all. The best point here, is that you'll get what you like and Microsoft type costs aren't high enough to be a big factor most of the time.


RE: It's all about the P(ost)MS
By msftman19 on 9/25/2006 10:04:54 AM , Rating: 2
Yes, Microsoft has support contracts, but the point of my statement is that they make no money on them...customers pay for support contracts, Microsoft has to pay their support staff and associated costs...and they're lucky if they break even. Trust me on that. Now, for folks like Red Hat & Novell, somehow they've made the 'pay for support' model work, or they wouldn't be in business. We'll see how that goes the bigger they get.

Do you really think companies like Red Hat, Novell, and IBM are in the Linux business because they're being altruistic? No, they're in it to make money on support, services, hardware (in IBM's case), etc. So while 'fortune' is just a term, I don't think I'm off base, with respect to Microsoft or any other vendor.


RE: It's all about the P(ost)MS
By msftman19 on 9/25/2006 10:06:48 AM , Rating: 2
And I should have said "free software for businesses or large organizations is like a free puppy". For consumers who aren't willing to pay for anything beyond their hardware, it probably doesn't matter either way.


Is this mostly politics?
By jb16 on 9/25/2006 1:17:57 AM , Rating: 3
If the United States Government took care of its own software needs it would be the biggest software company in the world. They don't, they sign huge contracts with Microsoft.

Microsoft is an American company and tax revenues, and economic growth by these contracts are all good things for the country. What the European Union is doing is twisting legal code for their political gain. I think the main reason they would even consider going to Linux is because it is the only non-American alternative. Governments (including our own in some respects) have enough software needs to be software houses.

Why help grow America's economy when you could cite a bunch of mumbo jumbo and scratch your own back? I think America is asleep at the wheel, people here don't even have a clue of how to appropriately use a computer. The much cooler American systems (I'm thinking Vista and Apple OS X) are all about promoting user stupity.

Example: Can't organize your files? No problem, our new system finds it for you. To go Linux is to demand a whole lot more of your users (at its best and at its worst). How about everybody knowing better than to loose a file in the first place? Directory trees work just fine, they're fast, they're proven... but they require 2 hours of training... and that's too much?

2 hours for a lifetime of not loosing your files? (Even in Vista or whatever, knowing how to groom your files will remain invaluable). How long will America be able to sustain the current brain drain it depends on to fuel its innovation? We have it so good here but I just can't help but think that the rest of the planet is more alert and more careful. Everybody knows our every move, and we sell and/or show every innovation we come up with.

We join in also saying MS sucks, and Linux is great but just what is so great about us that we deserve better than Microsoft? If closed source were so bad then how come so many of us benefit from mainting these systems.

If a mechanics tools were free would you still take your car to the shop? Could they still make good money fixing cars? Probably not.

Those of us in the IT fields are self-destructive. We are lacking in self-esteem... these companies we dismiss and constantly bash are the foundations for our livelihood and are formed by people much like ourselves. To my knowledge Microsoft does NOT outsource.

Is it OK for Europeans to cheer on the switch to Linux? Yes, absolutely. But what are WE doing when we cheer on our own extinction? When we all say, you'd be better off without me? It's high-time we start living with a little bit more respect for our flawed country and its flawed ways. I guarantee you that those concieted European nations have every bit of reasons to bash on themselves than we do but they choose not to.

BTW: The word processor as we know it is old news. I'm guessing Microsoft is actually trying to come up with some new stuff.

PS- I use Linux, and Mac OS X, and Windows XP. I think Win Vista's greatest "threat" if you can even call it that, is that Windows XP is already so great. With today's hardware WinXP is blazing fast because the system is so mature (or "old" if you're into hype).




RE: Is this mostly politics?
By L1NUXownz1fUR1337 on 9/25/2006 10:00:09 AM , Rating: 2
>> Microsoft does NOT outsource

Please share that really good crack pipe...

Stop using miCro$haft search engines and find the truth...use google: "microsoft outsource"

"The documents include wage lists and projects for Microsoft at Infosys, Wipro, Satyam and Tata Consultancy Services, the four largest Indian software and technology-services companies"


>>these companies we dismiss and constantly bash are the >>foundations for our livelihood and are formed by people >>much like ourselves.

Sorry, I'm not a evil greedy businessman aka ba$tard.

While it's easy to take the money, you might feel bad that the lost productivity ( virus battleing ) is a waste of wall power and money. Money that could be spent on new projects.
Not to mention that you don't get as much productivity done because your losing computing power over virus scanning and needing to reboot for patching.

>>Microsoft is an American company and tax revenues, and >>economic growth by these contracts are all good things for >>the country

Slavery was a good thing for this country because it provided lots of cheap/free labor. Genocide of the native american indian was a good thing for this country because the government got lots of "free" land. Things that were good for this country are really not. In the case of miCro$hite, when the company can't be stopped by the american government and when every government official is on the payroll of the said company it's not a good thing.

Please wake up - you're asleep at the wheel...

The only partially good idea you had was about an american software house. I thought that ( and I already have a patent - so u will be hearing from my lawyer ) and say more... We need the american government to create it's own computer hardware/software company so we don't get spy-rigged computers from china. Also to keep jobs - especially technical ones in america. If the government doesn't do this, the whoring large corporations trying to save a penny will darwin out american technical workers.

>>Those of us in the IT fields are self-destructive

No, it's not us, it's the greedy overpaid CXOs +corporations who are destroying the american IT job future.





RE: Is this mostly politics?
By chorner on 9/25/2006 5:57:03 PM , Rating: 2
Dude, you've psychological got issues... stop living in that "ideal" world where nobody needs or likes conflict, and wake up and become a man.


RE: Is this mostly politics?
By chorner on 9/25/2006 5:58:20 PM , Rating: 2
and I can't type.. that's twice now in the same thread! haha switch: psychological with got


I don't see much point to this
By archcommus on 9/24/2006 3:06:30 AM , Rating: 2
As has already been stated, large government institutions and schools get this software for pretty cheap. Besides, they have the budget for it anyway. This is not about the cost savings. It's about flexibility and less dependence on Microsoft. The first issue I guess I could understand, I don't really know how often business and governments want to modify this type of software. The second issue, though, who the hell cares. If a business is providing great software at an okay price, does it really matter if you are dependent on them? If they ever go down in the future, another company will come along to replace them with a perfectly good alternative.

Honestly, I see no attractions of the open source world. From my own experiences and for my own needs, Linux is not as good as Windows and OpenOffice is not as good as MS Office, period. So I'll pay a small fee for these products. Seems worth it for years of use.




RE: I don't see much point to this
By Loser on 9/24/2006 5:34:00 AM , Rating: 2
what are you talking about? veing dependant on someone who you cant control can bring A LOT of trouble. Thats reason nike bought companies that were delivering goods for them. If u CAN its always good to bring everything under your own wing.


RE: I don't see much point to this
By Strunf on 9/24/2006 6:54:25 AM , Rating: 2
hmm MS sells it cheap cause that creates a strong user base, if kids start learning IT with windows PCs I don’t have any doubts most of them will equip their own PC with windows, had they started with Linux then many of them would have Linux... also the I don’t doubt MS has over 400% profit margin with windows after the first year...


The growth of Linux has been predicted forever
By Staples on 9/24/2006 1:38:02 PM , Rating: 2
And still no one except the geeks use it.

In other words, it has not happened.




By Spivonious on 9/25/2006 9:27:45 AM , Rating: 3
Amen, brotha! "Linux Freaks" as I call them, love Linux simply because it's not MS (or is that M$? :rollseyes:), and it's "underground" (because unpopular things are always better). It will never gain mass usage until it gains the support of the hardware makers and abandons the open source plan. No control over the code = no widespread support.

I'm curious what the Munich government is doing for support. Is it through Debian?


Balanced Media
By mikeblas on 9/24/2006 1:04:22 PM , Rating: 1
When Microsoft closes a big deal with a very large company or government, why doesn't Daily Tech cover it?




RE: Balanced Media
By L1NUXownz1fUR1337 on 9/24/06, Rating: -1
RE: Balanced Media
By INeedCache on 9/25/2006 3:30:14 AM , Rating: 2
Evil, corruption? I've seen plenty of articles here about the EU. Guess that shoots down your supposition.


happening again
By Trisped on 9/25/2006 2:56:38 PM , Rating: 2
This happens all the time. A bunch of people start taking about moving to Linux (though it is still a very small % of the total PC users) claming things like $ savings and that everyone is doing it. Then after 2-3x longer then they said they finnaly get it set up. 3-5 years later 1/2 start the process of switching back (though they don't make a big ta’do about it).

Yes, there are advantages to Linux, but it is very specialized. Finding tech support for Linux will cost at least 2x as much, sometimes 10-15x as for windows. Finding people that know Linux is hard, and finding someone that can hire someone that knows Linux is even harder, since they are probably just an HR person who barely knows Windows. Then there is the many different versions of Linux, and while I have been told that all Linux programs run on all versions, I have also seen sites with 3-10 versions of a program so it will install properly in all the different versions of Linux. Then there is the limited amount of software support.

Yes, I believe that Linux serves a very important roll in our PC world, but I don't think it works well for anyone other then true enthusiasts. So while some will praise this as a great strike for Linux, I will wonder how many new Windows users were created to day, and how many new pieces of software were written for Windows or Windows/OSX in the last week.




"Limux" eh?
By MrDiSante on 9/23/06, Rating: -1
RE: "Limux" eh?
By The Cheeba on 9/23/2006 2:42:29 PM , Rating: 2
Are you being sarcastic? Or did you read the article?


RE: "Limux" eh?
By chorner on 9/25/2006 5:51:00 PM , Rating: 2
I don't care who uses linux overseas, or tries to push this "open software" crap but face the facts! The software is free for one and only reason... its substandard in many ways to the commercial counterpart.

Like the above posted mentioned, its -Linux- very useful for specific tasks; but as a general use platform its completely useless.

I'd like to run Photoshop, Flash, Director, Dreamweaver and 3DsMax during the day, while listening to distortion free audio and using a decent browser that's compatible with 100% of the websites out there -love it or hate it, MSIE- and using the vastly superior Outlook 2003 compared to other -crap- mail programs.

Then... when that's done, if I come back to the computer for some entertainment later on that night I'd like to easily view streaming videos, watch some DVD's or play a round of Day of Defeat or Battle for Middle Earth etc.

Linux is great to freely setup an educational or government system where really, all you need is simple email and word processing... otherwise, this is no huge win for Linux at all. Big deal! I could install Windows 95 and STILL do more that matters to me than with Linux, far more easily... I don't need to feel empowered by using archaic and vastly superior open source software.

Linux makes for a great -low cost as long as you know exactly what you're doing- web server though I'll tell you...again very specific uses.


RE: "Limux" eh?
By chorner on 9/25/2006 5:54:38 PM , Rating: 2
I did actually mean, insuperior =) haha


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