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UPC numbers and retail inventory documents point to 40GB PS3 incoming

According to Sony’s original estimates, stock of the 60GB PlayStation 3 should be nearly depleted from North American store shelves. With the $499 machine soon gone from retail, the effective cost to buy a PlayStation 3 would be the $599 charged for the 80GB model – that is, unless Sony changes its pricing model.

In addition to analysts expecting the price drop of the $599 model, stronger evidence of an even cheaper PS3 SKU with a 40GB hard drive is now surfacing from various sources. The UPC database lists product codes specifically for a “SONY PLAYSTATION 3 40GB.”

An internal document from big box retailer Best Buy also lists a 40GB PS3 machine for $399. The product description also includes the word “SPIDER,” leading credence to a previous report of Sony bundling Spider-Man 3 on Blu-ray Disc with PS3 consoles this holiday season. According to the document on Engadget, the new 40GB PS3 is listed with an in-stock date of October 28, 2007.

The lower-cost PS3 will also likely hit in Europe as well, with UK online retailer Play.com listing new product “Sony Playstation 3 PS3 Console With 40GB HDD” as coming soon.

Rumblings of a new PlayStation 3 model were strongly sparked earlier this week when an FCC filing by Sony revealed new model number CECHG01. Furthermore, existence of this new model was again proven with the CECHG01 number being listed explicitly as a qualifying device on the Blu-ray Savings “Five Free Movies” promotion.

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Why HDD's
By bhieb on 10/2/2007 5:12:43 PM , Rating: 5
There must be something on the wholesale side that I just don't understand, but the cost difference between a 40GB and an 80GB drive is almost nothing (maybe $20 retail?). I know it is all about margins, but I think the tiering based solely on very similar drive sizes is crazy. If you want me to pay more for the "premium" version then give me a 250GB or 160GB. Hell it is hard to even find a 40GB drive on the market, let alone justify not spending the extra few bucks for the 80GB instead.

It is just a confusing way to try and add "preceived" value where there is none. Sell me the enlosure and do away with this teiring crap based off what is essentially a commodity in the PC market.




RE: Why HDD's
By psyph3r on 10/2/07, Rating: -1
RE: Why HDD's
By bhieb on 10/2/2007 5:20:38 PM , Rating: 1
I don't know, but I am sure there will be.

My point is that it is a sleezeball used car salesmen technique that servers no purpose. Think about all the backlash and just the logistics involved with this whole hard drive mess.

We are going to have a 80 and 60, no wait lets just phase out one, then add a 40. WTF come on just slap an 80 in there and be done with it. If it is driving the price enought to have distinct seperate sku's then at least make it something important (more memory, HDMI, BR burner...). Anything is better than the lowly HD driving the pricing tiers.


RE: Why HDD's
By chaos386 on 10/2/2007 5:32:16 PM , Rating: 5
You can replace the HDD in the PS3 with any 2.5" SATA drive. The manual even tells you how to do it.


RE: Why HDD's
By erikejw on 10/3/07, Rating: -1
RE: Why HDD's
By afkrotch on 10/3/2007 5:13:16 AM , Rating: 2
I'm guessing they haven't read other articles as from the rumour mill, the 40 gig PS3 will have other differences, possibly.

Like less usb ports, no media card reader, and god knows what other items get cut out. Again, all rumours, so we really don't know what we'll see.

For all you know the 40 gig PS3 might get the 65nm cell proc, no media card reader, less usb ports, no hdmi, no wifi, smaller heatsink, and overall a completely new redesign and dubbed PS3 Slim.


RE: Why HDD's
By Torched on 10/3/2007 10:26:48 AM , Rating: 3
quote:
For all you know the 40 gig PS3 might get the 65nm cell proc, no media card reader, less usb ports, no hdmi, no wifi, smaller heatsink, and overall a completely new redesign and dubbed PS3 Slim.


Leave the rumors for the tabloids. Take a look at the FCC filing linked above. It lists irrefutable facts about the new model. HDMI and wifi 11b/g are tested and will be included. Less USB ports and no card reader are inconsequential to the functions of the unit even if they are included.


RE: Why HDD's
By Bigjee on 10/3/2007 7:11:03 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Leave the rumors for the tabloids. Take a look at the FCC filing linked above. It lists irrefutable facts about the new model. HDMI and wifi 11b/g are tested and will be included. Less USB ports and no card reader are inconsequential to the functions of the unit even if they are included.


Inconsequential to functionality but not the price.

Its the little details in hardware that can drive the cost up or down. (When it comes to custom building a high tech machine such as even a gaming computer you'd know exactly what i'm talking about) For example the Premium 360 got an added HDMI without any increase in cost but the Elite still doesn't have any WiFi. Its all in the details.

Also with Foxconn getting the manufacturing share, costs are going to go down.


RE: Why HDD's
By Torched on 10/3/2007 10:10:00 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Its the little details in hardware that can drive the cost up or down. (When it comes to custom building a high tech machine such as even a gaming computer you'd know exactly what i'm talking about) For example the Premium 360 got an added HDMI without any increase in cost but the Elite still doesn't have any WiFi. Its all in the details.


The details are nearly inconsequential to the PS3's price if you look at the overall cost to manufacture the unit.

HDMI was added to the X360 at Microsoft's expense, not the consumers. Little details help but the big details are what make price cuts possible(i.e. chip consolidation/size reduction).

As I said below, I'd prefer there be only one model per platform. It would be better for the gaming industry as a whole. However, In order for Sony to compete this generation they need the lower price point. How they are going about it is now obvious.


RE: Why HDD's
By psyph3r on 10/11/2007 9:44:41 AM , Rating: 1
why are you talking about an xbox fanboy? why would he even buy a ps3. However, i agree with you. I'll never get an xbox variation, but if all it is is a sata 2.5" in a ps3 then I'll definitely be getting one. i would love to put sabayon and beryl on it. and make a kick as htpc/ps3


RE: Why HDD's
By Murst on 10/2/2007 5:31:29 PM , Rating: 5
You can use any notebook HDD in the PS3. The PS3 instruction manual even provides steps on how to change your hard drive.


RE: Why HDD's
By bhieb on 10/2/2007 5:36:40 PM , Rating: 2
Then good for them that is great, and I sincerly applaud the effort.

However even more reason not to confuse the market with so many useless sku's. Instead sell one model and advertise "ugradeable hard drive". If you cannot do it yourself the GeekSquad boys can help you out. Or at best have 2 sku's one with and HD one without.

Plus it is one more thing you can plug as a benefit over your rival the 360. I can hear the add now "Gaming with no boundries, now with user upgradeable harddrive" xbox owner in the corner crying.


RE: Why HDD's
By NaughtyGeek on 10/2/2007 5:56:43 PM , Rating: 2
It's not just the HDD that's different. It is also rumored that the WIFI and memory card readers will be missing as they were with the 20 GB model.


RE: Why HDD's
By chrispyski on 10/2/2007 7:09:01 PM , Rating: 2
If you check the hyperlink referring to the FCC filing, the new model is listed as having Bluetooth and Wi-Fi.


RE: Why HDD's
By afkrotch on 10/3/2007 5:22:01 AM , Rating: 2
Yes, it's really confusing having currently only 2 available PS3s for purchase and only have 2 available PS3 types at one point in time.

They've had a lot less skus at one point in time than Microsoft has done.

Currently you can get Core, Premium, Elite, and Halo. For PS3 you have 80 gig and 60 gig. If you can't remember 2 or 4 options available to you, how do you survive? Do you sometimes forget to wipe your ass and flush the toilet, cause you can only remember to sitdown and crap, completely forgetting to wipe and flush?

You can bring up the other SKUs that they did have, but guess what? They aren't part of the market. I can bring up all the different SKUs of the Xbox 360, which was usually nothing more than crap bundled in with the 360.


RE: Why HDD's
By acer905 on 10/3/2007 7:45:24 AM , Rating: 2
Before i say anything i must say that i have neither the 360 or the PS3, but i have to say that the current lineup of 360's makes sense. 1 barebones, which would be an LS trim. One with most of the features, the LT. One with everything, the GT. And then simply a special edition paint job with all the features. If you are gonna have different ones, i agree ya gotta make it at least more than just the hard drive size thats different.


RE: Why HDD's
By Torched on 10/3/2007 11:24:05 AM , Rating: 2
Sony does have a few things different than the HDD size between the different models(for better or worse). But the thing that sets it apart from Microsoft lineup is the inclusion of the HDD in every system. "Barebone systems" maybe great in the world of the PC but console developers must develop games that work on 100% of the systems. With this in mind I do not see the advantage of Microsoft's hardware model. With the Core model developers cannot rely on the inclusion of a HDD.

I think it will be better for all console gamers once the companies realize that multiple SKU's hurt the industry. Look at the FUD that has spread in the comments here. It has only worked to inflame more stupidity.


RE: Why HDD's
By joemoedee on 10/2/2007 5:46:18 PM , Rating: 2
No modifications needed, from my understanding.

You just unscrew the old hard drive, pop in a new 2.5" SATA drive, and turn it on. It states the drive must be formatted, you format it, and you're ready to go. You don't even lose your console settings. (Just your saved games, obviously)

It's all about perceived value. Sony's not the first to use it to increase profit, and certainly will not be the last.

In doing so, they get increased profits from folks willing to fork out the extra dollars for twice the HDD capacity, all the while not alienating those customers that aren't afraid to use a screwdriver.


RE: Why HDD's
By softwiz on 10/2/2007 5:22:16 PM , Rating: 4
quote:
I think the tiering based solely on very similar drive sizes is crazy.


Tell that to Apple.


RE: Why HDD's
By bhieb on 10/2/2007 5:29:17 PM , Rating: 2
Don't get me started with those botards....

But in their defense solid state 2GB vs 4 vs 8, does cost significantly more even on the wholesale side. And the function of the device is primarily a storage medium. The HD in the PS3 is just another part. If it was user replaceable no one would buy the 80GB part when an 80GB drive can be had for $41 (plus they have a spare 40GB). And that is kind of the point Sony (being Sony) wants to make as much as possible and screwing you into buying and overpriced drive is a sure fire way to do it.


RE: Why HDD's
By Murst on 10/2/2007 5:34:57 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
And that is kind of the point Sony (being Sony) wants to make as much as possible and screwing you into buying and overpriced drive is a sure fire way to do it.

That statement would be accurate if Sony didn't lose money on every PS3 sold. They just lose less when you buy the more expensive model.


RE: Why HDD's
By bhieb on 10/2/2007 5:43:33 PM , Rating: 2
Potato potatto. Lose less make more whatever, you get my drift.

Now per my previous post since you can upgrade it they really aren't screwing you, but they should advertise that and drop all the tiers down to 2 one with, one without. If the only place you hear about and upgradeable harddrive is in the box after you buy it, I think they are failing to reap the marketing rewards.

It has to say that on the box, after all if it is on the box it makes a man sleep better at night. And why not build a model airplane says the little fairy, well I ain't buyin' it. Next thing you know there's money missin' and your daughters knocked up... I've seen it a hundred times.


RE: Why HDD's
By Zoomer on 10/2/2007 9:02:16 PM , Rating: 2
Selling a version without a hard drive would be a big mistake. Something microsoft did.


RE: Why HDD's
By kyp275 on 10/2/2007 10:13:21 PM , Rating: 2
not everyone who's looking to buy a console would want to mess with installing new HD on their own.

and having a SKU that doesn't have a HDD will just cause more problem with developers and just about everyone in general, as then game dev. can't count on every systems having a HD when making games.


RE: Why HDD's
By acer905 on 10/3/2007 7:48:38 AM , Rating: 2
console games shouldn't need a hard drive. If it does, well congrats its just another pc game now.


RE: Why HDD's
By KentState on 10/3/2007 12:59:58 PM , Rating: 2
So you prefer not to have shorter load times, downloadable content, and saved games not on a memory card?


RE: Why HDD's
By softwiz on 10/2/2007 5:39:58 PM , Rating: 2
When I first realized the PS3's HDD was so easily replaceable and that how to do it was documented in the PS3 manual, I found it somewhat shocking.

I've wondered how Sony would have done things differently if the 360 either didn't exist or didn't come out first with an all locked HDD.


RE: Why HDD's
By mikeyD95125 on 10/2/2007 5:58:02 PM , Rating: 2
Almost everyone is forgetting the higher cost of notebook drives. An 80GB 2.5" is at least $60-70 retail. While the 3.5" model may be down at $40-50 as stated. Just saying most people aren't making the right comparison.

I was going to buy a PS3 and swap in a bigger drive anyway. Now I get to do it for $100 cheaper. Yay for me :)


RE: Why HDD's
By mars777 on 10/2/2007 9:39:36 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
. If it was user replaceable no one would buy the 80GB part when an 80GB drive can be had for $41 (plus they have a spare 40GB). And that is kind of the point Sony (being Sony) wants to make as much as possible and screwing you


You're screwed more than you think.
By Sony and by yourself (your bonehead).

Try to research before you write about something.
You can buy the 40GB model and pop in a 250GB laptop HDD, unlike the screwed Xbox modified HDD.

Sony is doing the right thing! They're screwing people who dont know or don't dare to use the screwdriver.

So if you're afraid of the ScrewDriver you get Screwed .


RE: Why HDD's
By bhieb on 10/3/2007 9:29:22 AM , Rating: 2
Ok I did not want to apologize twice, but here goes since you cannot read the whole thread. That is great that you can replace it yourself, but Sony should exploit that fact, and educate the consumer.

Oh and by "try researching", try relaxing a bit man this is just a forum, the only place this is well documented is in the damn manual and that is my point. Use that to your advantage instead of hiding it in the manual. I don't own a PS3, but I probably will. Sony scares me a little with their proprietary stuff, if they were out telling the market "hey we even let you upgrade unlike the other guy" that would be great, just another plus.

My whole point is tiering it just off the hard drive and charging $100 less is insane. If there are other differences (and since you can upgrade the drive), then that is cool. I obviously did not know that to begin with or I would not have posted such.

And please folks relax a little. Forums are a place for fact and opinion, I don't have to "research" every post. That is what makes a forum fun to read and interact with. I don't know everything, so I post my thoughts and see what others think. Then I find out I was mistaken. I just don't get aholes like you that don't read the whole thread, and then start flaming for no reason. This is exactly why they call you "fanbois", because if a simple misunderstanding in 2 sentences (which I later retracted) can provoke enough anger to justify calling me a "bonehead" and "afraid of a screwdriver", then you are just a sony cult following fanboi.


RE: Why HDD's
By BansheeX on 10/3/2007 10:26:53 AM , Rating: 2
If you're smart you will only care about the base model price, which is being reduced to $399. That's the important news, here. In other words, the price went from $499 with an upgradeable HD to $399 with an upgradeable HD. I'm sorry Sony just can't seem to do anything right for you. The reason they're doing the $100 premium with the HD size is because there really is no other feature that they can modify to turn some kind of profit. They already decided to make HDMI, an HD, and Blu-Ray standard across the board. The same people who are lambasting Sony for not being profitable are the same ones criticizing this move to turn a profit. Go and waste your breath on MS for not allowing you to upgrade the HD at all. That is far worse than what Sony is doing here.


RE: Why HDD's
By bhieb on 10/3/2007 12:17:09 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I'm sorry Sony just can't seem to do anything right for you. The reason they're doing the $100 premium with the HD size is because there really is no other feature that they can modify to turn some kind of profit.

Where did you get that? Originally I was critizing Sony, but now that I know that you can upgrade it that is great. I am not an xbox fanboi, in fact I will definately go with Sony. The PS3 does alot for $399. What I am saying is that it would benefit Sony if they could limit all the sku changing and promote this feature. How much does it cost them to do all these changes in tiers? It is surely not free, and all I am saying is just release 1 sku with the 40gb or whatever, and advertise the hell out of the fact that you have one more thing the 360 does not.

I read almost every tech article on this site (and most comments), but I did not know you could change it. To me that is a huge marketing failure on Sony's part. If they can bring the price as low as possible, and let the user KNOW they can upgrade themselves, they will sell more units.


RE: Why HDD's
By rockyct on 10/2/2007 10:19:28 PM , Rating: 2
The 40 GB model probably won't have a game with it and the 80 GB model will probably now also come with Spiderman III on Blu-ray.


RE: Why HDD's
By retrospooty on 10/3/2007 9:55:14 AM , Rating: 2
"It is just a confusing way to try and add "preceived" value where there is none."

That part of your post said it all. You are correct, the diff between the 40 and 80g hard drive is likely less than $2. Neither is being made for the retail market anymore, both too small.


Stupid Stupid Stupid.
By ChipDude on 10/2/2007 5:42:33 PM , Rating: 1
Sony can't seem to figure it out that they have a product priced uncompetitive. IE SONY people simply don't see the non-value of a PS3 in the current price range REGARDLESS of the HD size. To try and segment the market and pricing with just the HD price on a slow moving, unpopular, an uncompelling product is simply bankrupt. I wonder what marketing fool Stringer is listening to.

Apple/INTEL have something completely different. When you have a compelling and competitive product it makes perfect sense to split the segment with small features deltas and reap huge profits for incremental features; Memory, harddrive size, frequency, cache, etc.

In Sony's case the bottom line is no one see any compelling value in paying even 399 for PS3 regardless of the HDD size.
They won't see any action on sales until they get a lot more games and drop the price to within 50 bucks of the wii.

Think about it, not only do you have to pay a huge premium for the box, you also pay lots more for the few games, and for what. Sony won't get more games until they get the volume up. Without the games they can't charge a higher price. But they can't get the box sales up to get more games because they don't market share to motivate developers.

ONLY solution drop the price to 300 bucks or so. Until there SONY is lost.

I'm almost ready to get a xbox360 just to play Halo3 and a couple other of the more graphics intensive games. Its a big enough expenditure that for even another 100 bucks for cell and blue-ray who care. Its all about the game and funfactor/$. The HDD really doesn't change that much.




RE: Stupid Stupid Stupid.
By Murst on 10/2/2007 5:51:25 PM , Rating: 2
The PS3 has no value? Bankrupt? Sony is lost?

Sorry if I find your post comical. FYI, Sony has sold a few million PS3s to date. There's obviously some value here. Perhaps not to you, but a few million people would beg to differ.

And I do realize that its very easy to differentiate the PS3 on HDD size, but each revision so far has had something different. The 20gb was stripped of the wireless, for example, while the 80gb did not have the emoticon chip and was bundled w/ a game. Assuming that the 40GB will be exactly as the 80GB except with a smaller hard drive would be most likely incorrect. Something else will probably be missing.


RE: Stupid Stupid Stupid.
By softwiz on 10/2/2007 5:51:37 PM , Rating: 3
AFAIK if and when the $399 PS3 comes out, it will still be the least expensive feature compete Blu-ray player out there and the only one that will be able to compete pricewise with HD-DVD. Many people may finally decide to purchase it for this reason alone regardless of whether they ever plan to play any games on it. This may well be Sony's actual endgame.


RE: Stupid Stupid Stupid.
By ChipDude on 10/2/2007 6:26:56 PM , Rating: 2
Dude, there is a difference between going bankrupt and a bankrupt strategy. Will the PS3 cause sony to go bankrupt, NO. But will they fail to make as much money as they could. I'm of the opinion SONY's market share could be higher, momentum could be better if they had chosen to do many things different; left off BR, chosen a simply PowerPC based CPU instead of cell, chose lower price and higher losses up front. Instead Sony has been a model of arrogrance expecting people to buy because it is SONY.

The fact millions have sold says nothing about a products value or commercial viability. Millions of betmaxs and APS cameras were sold too. What point are you trying to make. it would be more usefully if you'd show the difference in total sold PS3, 360, and WII and how the current sales trends bode for PS3 presence in 2 years when market will be fully saturated. Or perhaps what sales will need to increas for Sony to catch 360 or wii in the next year.

As to the compelling price for BR in PS3. Again this thinking continues to show why it hasn't helped PS3. By Christmas BR players in smaller formfactors will be widely avaiable and look much better next to my flatscreen then a PS3. I for one think about this with every price drop and everytime decide not worth it as my upscaling DVD is goodenough and I know by the time HD dvD / BR plays out in 2008 that a 199 and less player will be avaliable. Tell me again why should I buy now a player for a feature I can get in a year for cheaper that plays games that don't exist?


RE: Stupid Stupid Stupid.
By Timeless on 10/2/2007 7:15:47 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
I'm of the opinion SONY's market share could be higher, momentum could be better if they had chosen to do many things different; left off BR


Sony's not all that stupid. Believe it or not, there are still some people with brains left in Sony. Here's the thing about BR...which do you think will make Sony more money if it succeeds? PS3 or BR? Most likely it will be BR. Think about it. If BR became mainstream like DVDs, Sony will be reaping huge rewards. You think they're gonna care about how bad the PS3 is tanking if BR goes mainstream? They are a company. The first thing they're looking for is profit and what will make them the most profit. It's the same with all companies.

quote:
The fact millions have sold says nothing about a products value or commercial viability.


A product's value is all based on a person's perception on whether they are getting a good or bad deal on something. That means it will vary constantly with each passing person. A product by itself has no value. It continues to have no value until someone comes back and looks at it. Then it receive some sort of value depending on that person's thoughts of said product. So to say that having millions of an item sold shows nothing about that product's value is absurd.

quote:
Tell me again why should I buy now a player for a feature I can get in a year for cheaper that plays games that don't exist?


If everyone followed your logic, innovation would be dead. Each time an invention comes out, everyone would just say, "Oh...let's just wait a few weeks and something better will come out." Not gonna happen. If a company spends millions on research and marketing for a product and no one buys it thinking that a better one will come out next year, do you really think company will just blow more money after already wasting millions on its first product? In the end, it's your decision when you want to buy something.


RE: Stupid Stupid Stupid.
By ChristopherO on 10/2/2007 9:56:27 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
which do you think will make Sony more money if it succeeds? PS3 or BR? Most likely it will be BR.

I personally don't doubt that, but they picked the wrong battle. If they wanted BR to succeed, they should have worked on a cheap BR player and bundled it for free with all Sony HDTVs priced $1499 and up. I think that would have sold a huge volume of product and ensured their devices were playing movies. Instead you've got Vizio manhandling them on flat panel sales, and MS and Nintendo beating them on the gaming side.

All they've managed to accomplish is cannibalize their video game revenue. You need to remember PS2 had something like 60-70% market share from the last generation. The PS3 is currently at a whopping 17%. The Wii and Xbox are more or less tied in the low 40s.

The PS2 was a cash-cow for the company. The games division was literally paying the salary for the rest of the company when the computing, electronic, and pro divisions were struggling and losing money. So far, they managed to take their cash-cow out to pasture and shoot it.

I personally have nothing against the PS3, but Sony has obviously made a whole bunch of strategically bad decisions. It reminds me of the Nvidia 5800 vs ATI 9700 situation. It took Nvidia 3-4 years to recover all the market share they coughed up in a few months.

In short? I have no idea what they'll do. Neither does anyone else. It's a weird situation.


RE: Stupid Stupid Stupid.
By Timeless on 10/3/2007 12:36:13 AM , Rating: 2
The whole BR used in PS3 thing was probably just Sony trying to kill two birds with one stone. I think, in some way, it even saved Sony's ass. When people complain about there being no good games, Sony can always point to the PS3 and say, "Bu--but it's also a Blu-Ray player." Oh yes, and the Vizio thing...yyyeeeaaahhhh....Vizio only manage to "manhandle" Sony for one quarter. After that, it went back to the regulars(aka Sony, Toshiba, Phillips, Sharp, JVC, etc.).

I don't think Sony has shot it's cash-cow yet...but the PS2 is definitely showing signs of age. Sooner or later, Sony will have to put it down like Nintendo and Microsoft did(quick and painless). Right now, though, it's still doing well so I don't expect Sony to destroy its once mighty companion.

I tend to think the reason that Sony is doing so poorly is because of stress. They have been the #1 console seller for around 10 years now. The stress of trying to make a better console each time has finally gotten to them and they tried to grab something that they couldn't reach.

In short, I really don't have a clue what Sony will do either. But, hopefully, someone in the company has an idea. If there is such a person, I hope he/she is in a position of power to do something about it. I'm getting a bit bored of playing Resistance and Warhawk.


RE: Stupid Stupid Stupid.
By afkrotch on 10/3/2007 5:44:03 AM , Rating: 1
You aren't looking at the big pictures.

PS3 helps to push Cell and Blu-ray. Not only into the gaming market, but into other fields. It's like big advertising.

Cell is now available for use in tvs, servers, cellphones, etc. Blu-ray of course has gained huge momentum over HD-DVD since the PS3s release.

Then the PS3 itself is doing perfectly fine. With 4.7 million sold in about a year. Guess what? The Xbox 360 sold 5 milliong in about a year.

Wow, they are definitely doing something wrong. *sarcasm*

Everything you talk about is simply retarded. Let me ask you this? Why bother buying a blu-ray player next year, when in 2009, it'll be like $30? Why bother buying anything now, as in the future, it'll be cheaper? Why are you even talking?


RE: Stupid Stupid Stupid.
By acer905 on 10/3/2007 8:15:46 AM , Rating: 2
believe it or not, some people actually associate a value with a certain piece of technology, regardless of how "new" it is. Thus, they won't consider buying it until the point where it is at or below that value. The point is not that it will always be cheaper. The point is that its price and value currently do not match.

However i will say that if the blu-ray player is $30 in 2009 i would consider purchasing it. Well, if the cost of an "HD" tv was half of what it is now.

And as for console sales, according to the site i found, http://forum.pcvsconsole.com/viewthread.php?tid=11... ,even the gamecube had a better first year than the PS3 (in the us, not sure about elswhere). (BTW the gamecube, while constantly bashed, sold about 3.4 million less than the xbox, with around 21.6 million compared to 24 million for the xbox. a 10% difference [total sales numbers from wikipedia])


RE: Stupid Stupid Stupid.
By BansheeX on 10/3/2007 9:47:00 AM , Rating: 2
Maybe they didn't feel like releasing a new console for you to buy every 3 years like Sega. I guarantee you that Sony is concerned about longevity when they design a console, thus it becomes a decision on what they can include vs how much they can charge and stay in the game. Not the easiest decision in the world when you want blu-ray penetration, upgradeable HDs on every model, linux support, HDMI on every model, free netplay, and the potential power to last for ten years.

Also, they are losing money on the system NOW, but like the PS2, they are thinking long-term. It will likely start generating gobs of revenue in the second half of its life. besides, why in the heck are you ragging on Sony for "failing to make as much money as they can." Are you a consumer or a stock investor? I wouldn't buy the PS3 if it were exactly like a 360. I think it's a HELL of a deal to spend $120 more for the aforementioned features. None of your cost cutting recommendations make sense to me and I don't want to get nickel and dimed to death on my console.


RE: Stupid Stupid Stupid.
By kelmon on 10/3/2007 2:53:54 AM , Rating: 2
That's a stupid strategy, if true. Sony loses money on the PS3 so, if this is their strategy then they must be expecting to make their money back on sales of Blu-ray movies. However, I feel sure that if this is their strategy that they can make a dedicated Blu-ray player for less than a complete PS3 and therefore reduce their loses.

For me I'm the total opposite. I have no interest in Blu-ray or HD DVD so adding these features into the PS3 doesn't deliver any value to me - what I want is a games console and nothing more. In this respect the PS3 must be price-competitive with other games consoles and my own valuation. Given this I have no intention of buying a PS3 until the price reaches $299, particularly given the price of the games.


RE: Stupid Stupid Stupid.
By afkrotch on 10/3/2007 5:32:34 AM , Rating: 1
If you were an analyst in my company, I would have fired you a long time ago.

I don't think you see the value in the PS3 as a computer entertainment system (as it's marketed by Sony). Sure, the price is high when all you consider is the gaming aspects of the system. The price is low if you compare it to a similiar spec'd Xbox 360.

Also if you actually paid attention to trends, the PS3 is hardly lost. It's moving along exactly how the Xbox 360 did when it released.


RE: Stupid Stupid Stupid.
By ChipDude on 10/3/2007 5:45:23 PM , Rating: 2
Analysts are people who couldn't get a job in the industry. If they were any good companies they analyze would actually pay them to do what they say. Or they are people who love the limelight vs. making and selling the real stuff.

Sony has little incentive to make Cell more widespread. Cell is a IBM initiative. IBM has everything to gain from pushing cell. Sony already got tricked into signing up to build a fab for what is going to be a overally complex and low yielding processor and low volume cell. There are already rumors of them wanting to get out of manufacturing cell.

As to BR vs HD-DVD and profiting from which format wins is a fine example of ego going beyond business common sense. You can argue that more capacity is alway better, but you have to draw the line somewhere as when is enough for next generation. In the end Sony is short-sighted. Toshiba and Sony should have compromised and embraced one standard. Consumer sales would have been 2 time or more, people would have rallied around one player and yield, cost and price would be all for the better. By going their seperate ways have cost both more profit then they would have gained by compromising even if they won.

The finest examples of technology failures is when companies over stretch in justifying some performance to find out the consumer simply doesn't care or won't pay for the premium or that they failed to predict their ability to drive cost down or yield up. BR is a fine example of this with respect to cost and yield. Cell is a fine example of complexty for little return.

Wii is an example of where it ain't all about technology. I could argue that xbox360 took a middle road of just enough technology and came in a year early. Can you imagine what a horse race it would be for Sony if they had come a year earlier and another 100-200 bucks cheaper because they didn't pick cell or BR. Lets forget Microsofts first experience of high volume manufacturing with their implementation disaster on the 360.

As to saying PS3 is a success because it is at first glance selling the same pace xbox360 is silly. Its a year late and millions of units behind in installed base. It means PS3 will be the lowest priority platform for developers; 3rd behind WII, xbox360.

How is it competitive. Its like telling me that a Porsche is a deal because its 0-60 and top speed are a value compared to my 10 year old japanese import. Its a value that the larger wii community has ignored.


RE: Stupid Stupid Stupid.
By psyph3r on 10/11/2007 10:22:49 AM , Rating: 2
it is only stupid stupid stupid to people that don't know what is in a ps3 or what to do with it after it comes from the manufacture. The possibilities of this device far out weigh either of the other consoles. but the ps3 isn't just a console...and i believe that is the marketing strategy they've been running on. it's a console/ Linux power house/ BRHD player...and all for under 600$. That is a TON of value. I'm sorry you don't have the skills to use it. have fun playing red ring around the rosie with your xbox


Confirmation?
By dmjmcc on 10/2/2007 5:16:16 PM , Rating: 2
Well you don't need any more confirmation than this:

http://www.play.com/Games/PlayStation3/4-/3497508/...




RE: Confirmation?
By dubldwn on 10/2/2007 6:52:41 PM , Rating: 2
Whoa! That link you posted says:
quote:
"40GB PS3 is not backward compatible with PS2 games. This information is based on specifications supplied by manufacturers and should be used for guidance only."


RE: Confirmation?
By JeffDM on 10/2/2007 10:15:01 PM , Rating: 2
I think what they mean is that they don't have the Emotion Engine. The 80GB model doesn't have it either. I think they dropped it because they are able to emulate the EE chip on the Cell well enough.


RE: Confirmation?
By Murst on 10/3/2007 1:50:50 AM , Rating: 2
There might be more to this. I don't remember where I read it, but I believe Sony had 2 major parts in the PS3 that allowed playback of PS2 games. One was the EE, and the other was some graphics chip. If that was true, and Sony did in fact remove the graphics chips, it may be the end of PS2 emulation.

Again, I can't really back this up w/ anything, so it may be completely wrong. :)


RE: Confirmation?
By Chris Peredun on 10/3/2007 8:33:27 AM , Rating: 2
Removing backwards compatibility entirely would be tantamount to suicide for Sony. No matter what other ill-planned moves they've pulled in the past with relation to the PS3, I can't see them doing that.


Spider PS3
By wallijonn on 10/2/2007 6:53:00 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
The product description also includes the word “SPIDER,” leading credence to a previous report of Sony bundling Spider-Man 3 on Blu-ray Disc with PS3 consoles this holiday season.


This gives credence to the rumour that Spiderman 3 will only be released on Blue Ray and not on "regular" DVD. Sony therefore is trying to force everyone's hand and pricing the unit at comparable 1080p HD-DVD player prices.




RE: Spider PS3
By cmdrdredd on 10/2/2007 8:33:42 PM , Rating: 2
I can almost guarantee it will be on regular DVD. They can't expect every spiderman fan to pony up $500+ for a BR player just to see the movie at home or even expect people to spend the cash on a PS3 for it. Hell, I'll download a ripped version before I do that.


RE: Spider PS3
By JeffDM on 10/2/2007 10:17:39 PM , Rating: 2
Wrong!

Spider-Man 3 is going to be offered in DVD too.


RE: Spider PS3
By kyp275 on 10/2/2007 10:31:53 PM , Rating: 2
whoever started that rumor is just plain stupid. As if any company is going to lose out the millions and millions in profit by releasing a blockbuster film solely in one of the HD format, which occupy a negligible amount of the marketshare.

there are much better ways to drive sales and adaptation of bluray, releasing spider man 3 as bluray-only is not one of them.


RE: Spider PS3
By carl0ski on 10/2/2007 11:31:46 PM , Rating: 2
I don't personally believe it will happen

However a blockbuster can sell a device.
Look and Tomb Raider
it single handedly kick started the sale of Playstation 1 in the 90's

People wanted to play the $50 game so bought a $300 PSX just to do so.

Sony may even release SP3 on bluray 1 week or 1 month before Ordinary DVD.
Some people are willingly to pay through the nose to be the first to see SP3 on BluRay.


Nice!
By daftrok on 10/2/2007 4:56:57 PM , Rating: 2
But it would have made more sense just to drop the 80GB PS3 to $399.99 and not sell 6 different more expensive Blu ray players on their site when it makes no sense to buy at all.




RE: Nice!
By bozilla on 10/3/2007 12:59:40 AM , Rating: 1
Yes, but you have to understand, their strategy is to come out with teaser console that will sell immeditely and they will lose a LOT of money on this one. This is why they still keep the 80gb version too. Most likely they will not lower it from the $599 price.

So what might happen is, they introduce this $399 PS3, hold it for the holidays and then pull out, leaving the PS3 80gb at a higher price to try to recoupe the financial loss.

You can be 80-90% certain that this will happen. They can't do this for long with $399 as they are killing all Blu-Ray CE companies with the lowest priced Blu-Ray player and the other guys simply can't compete at $500+ price tags not to mention that Sony actually has 3 more players, from $450-$1000 or $1300, thus taking every part of the market.

How much longer these CE corporation will remain idiots is yet to be seen. This is most likely one of the major reasons why Samsung canceled the 2 latest players with Blu-Ray technology. Their 2400 model and hybrid one.

I"m betting they'll come out with HD DVD standalone in the $400 price range pretty soon.


RE: Nice!
By blackvenom on 10/3/2007 12:34:53 PM , Rating: 2
-PS3 40GB $399 version release date...Oct 28th
-Ratchet&Clank game release date....Oct 30th

looks to me like Sony is lowering the PS3 to help sales on the game for the holidays. The game does look awesome too. :)


RE: Nice!
By Chris Peredun on 10/3/2007 12:38:57 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I"m betting they'll come out with HD DVD standalone in the $400 price range pretty soon.


The Toshiba HD-A2 is already well under that mark - it's been down to $200 on limited-time sales.


Five days earlier...
By murphyslabrat on 10/2/2007 4:52:47 PM , Rating: 2
Dangit, it's five days to late for a birthday present. Well, late is better than never, and at that price who can argue...well, maybe someone who doesn't have enough for one of the coolest looking consoles, but nonetheless...




RE: Five days earlier...
By cmdrdredd on 10/2/2007 8:38:41 PM , Rating: 2
Since when does having a "cool looking console" make a gamer want it? Fact is that people who know games buy a console for the games not how it looks. Which is why PS3 is doing poorly compared to the 360.


RE: Five days earlier...
By Locutus465 on 10/2/2007 9:18:16 PM , Rating: 2
Not saying anything bad about the PS3, but I think beauty in this case is deffonetly in the eye of the beholder, lol... The physical appearance of the PS3 doesn't do much for me, honestly talking strictly in terms of how the system looks in my entertainment center, I like Wii best (with 4 controlers sitting on Niko rechargers). I think it just looks cool and sleek.

In terms of being the most overall useful device in my entertainment center, I'd say my 360 is tops (PS3 no doubt will be just as capable here once video download is ready). Being a Halo fan my 360 also edges out my Wii in terms of game play right now.


NO hdd model
By tephra on 10/2/2007 9:17:59 PM , Rating: 2
I wish Sony would produce a HDD free model for like $350 USD.. that way _we_ can put in a 160gig hdd at our own cost !




RE: NO hdd model
By blackvenom on 10/2/2007 9:50:27 PM , Rating: 1
Maybe Sony should have made a PS3 model without the BR player on it, then sell it as an addon like MS does. The BR player is mostly the reason for the $$ loss on each console sold and is also hurting their chances of competing with the Xbox360. Games are slowly starting to come out for it, but it still has the high price tag....personally I don't care if it has a Blu Ray player I'd rather see which HD player wins first before buying one. It would suck for everyone that bought a blu-ray and then HD DVD in the end wins....lol.


RE: NO hdd model
By JeffDM on 10/2/2007 10:11:50 PM , Rating: 2
That's not going to happen because the games are Blu-Ray discs as far as I can tell. I think the biggest expense is in the huge processor die, not the drive.


PS3 Blu ray drive
By mastamusicdj on 10/29/2007 6:18:41 PM , Rating: 2
Does anyone know how the Blu Ray Drive is connected to the motherboard inside the PS3 like is it a variation of SATA or IDE? Also anyone tried getting it to work inside a PC?




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