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Software Microsoft's Progress on Windows Vista
Brandon Hill (Blog) - August 3, 2006 3:08 PM
Print E-mail del.icio.us 36 comment(s) - last by techhappy.. on Aug 7 at 12:58 AM
"Are we there yet?"

Windows Vista has been on the minds of many for quite some time now. Every week we receive new bits of information on the operating system including delays, feature reductions, new builds, the massive amount of dollars being thrown behind its launch and how it will serve as a communications hub for a host of Windows Live services. Microsoft has even gone so far as to establish a design guide for new PCs to incorporate chic designs to complement the next generation operating system. But for all the talk, is the operating system really ready for prime time? Can Microsoft hit its January target which Bill Gates is 80% positive that they can achieve? Windows guru Paul Thurrott takes a look at the current state of Windows Vista development and gives his opinion on what is right and what is wrong with Vista.

In our own testing, the latest builds of Vista have been relatively stable platforms although driver support could be a little better. Vista Beta 2’s reliability, however, was questionable as seen in a reliability report posted in June. Thurrott points to a number of niggling issues that compound to make even the latest builds of Vista a burden to live with on a daily basis:

I'm navigating around in Explorer and suddenly realize I need to access a file on a network share. In XP, this is easy as My Network Places is also available from the Task Pane. In Windows Vista, there's no Task Pane, and there's no link to Network in the new Favorite Links pane (though you can, admittedly, add one if you want, or add links to any network shortcuts). So you open Network from the Start Menu and wait ... and wait... and wait... while the damn thing finds all your networked PCs and servers. In XP, this process is instantaneous.

There are other outstanding issues including the usual suspects like application compatibility, problems with ActiveX in Internet Explorer 7.0, problems with the new Aero Glass user interface, and various minor bugs here and there. In the end, Thurrott acknowledges that Microsoft will likely hit its late October release for business customers, but it may come at a price:

Do I think that Microsoft will finalize Windows Vista by the end of October 25? Yes, but I also believe they will release a massive series of patches between October 2006 and January 2007 if they do arbitrarily hit their latest release promise because of issues that crop up after Vista gets shipped out to all those businesses that won't be installing it anyway. (Which brings me to a side issue: Why ship Vista to enterprises with volume license agreements before shipping it to consumers? Businesses are not going to install Vista anyway. Why waste the effort?)

Microsoft still has a lot of work to do and it is counting heavily on its own internal testing and external beta testers to find and report issues that are still outstanding. While it’s not likely that all of them will be addressed before the operating system is released to customers in January, we’re still hopeful that consumers will get a quality product at launch.

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Recipe for success
By Pirks on 8/3/2006 3:24:17 PM , Rating: 1
1) don't promise what you can't do 2) keep silent until the product is ready 3) make "ship when it's ready" your corporate motto - doing all three protects your business from all the negative press and anti-this or that bashers




RE: Recipe for success
By macademianut on 8/3/2006 3:26:08 PM , Rating: 1
You mean, be more like Apple? :)


RE: Recipe for success
By ksherman on 8/3/2006 3:27:05 PM , Rating: 3
no, then youd have to add a 4th, jack up the price to Holy Heaven...


RE: Recipe for success
By Pirks on 8/3/06, Rating: 0
RE: Recipe for success
By ksherman on 8/3/2006 4:02:40 PM , Rating: 2
Well, you are wrong

Yes, their computers (READ: iMac/MacBook) are much more competetive in price and performance. I am not some anti-mac-poo-face, as my next purchase is likely to be a mac. I am still of the opinion (perhaps this will change on August 7th) that their desktops are still WAY over priced. Esp considering that they only give you 512MB of RAM in a $3,300 Quad G5, not to mention a super powerful GeForce 6600 and a super HUGE 250GB HD... thats just rediculous. Yeah, i know, its a Quad, but seriously,the processors may be neat-o but the rest of the hardware is utter crap, given the price.

Their laptops are signifigantly better, but their MacBook Pros are a bit on the high side. but, i agree there really is no comparison to the MacBook pro ;-) its a sexy beast.

Their iMac arent too bad, considering they come with an everage Video Card, decent processor and a somewhat nice LCD, all in one, clean, well designed package, but again with $1400, one can do a lot when they build their own (esp with todays processors and prices)

I think that the biggest exception to all this is the MacBook. its very powerful, pretty, runs OSX, and is pretty well priced. it would be the ultimate machine if it came with a dedicated graphics card, but that will never happen.

well, thats enough out of me. Dont mistake me for an anti-mac person, consider me more of an Anti-Mac-Desktop person... they are just soooooooo bloody expensive!!


RE: Recipe for success
By Pirks on 8/3/06, Rating: 0
RE: Recipe for success
By ksherman on 8/4/2006 9:18:46 PM , Rating: 2
BTW- when i said that that you are wrong, I was refering to your comment that I know nothing about the price of computers/parts/etc... I know quite a bit, so please leave the negative, bashing, and noobish commentsto your self, before "judgemental idiot who doesnt know what he is talking about" gets attached to your forehead.


RE: Recipe for success
By Pirks on 8/5/2006 12:33:18 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
I know quite a bit, so please leave the negative, bashing, and noobish commentsto your self, before "judgemental idiot who doesnt know what he is talking about" gets attached to your forehead
Sorry sherman, but this is the only reaction you get from me when you start comparing PPC Macs to Intel PCs when there are tons of new cool Intel Macs around. Say word "PowerMac" again and you get your sticker. How else can I teach people that comparing old museum PowerPC Macs to new generation of PCs and Macs with Intel Core Duo/Core 2 Duo is a VERY wrong thing to do? I just hand out stickers :-) You don't like it? Then tell me how else can I teach you and others, if you don't like my stickers :))


RE: Recipe for success
By tuteja1986 on 8/3/2006 10:22:20 PM , Rating: 2
I will never support MAC because of its propriety and bullshit prices. When a leather case for an Ipod cost $100 and it cost them $2 to make them in their sweatshop cheap labor prison. Apple are bigger scams than Microsoft !!!


RE: Recipe for success
By rklaver on 8/4/2006 12:02:34 PM , Rating: 2
not so proprietary anymore. Prices is a different story.


RE: Recipe for success
By Pirks on 8/4/2006 12:07:38 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Apple are bigger scams than Microsoft
Haha, another naive boy wanting to get a sticker. Here you go, sticks on your forehead and says "Da Hott Basher". This sticker will help you to bash all the other companies who do the same stuff - you know, assembling stuff in China and selling it for triple the price. Boy, you got the whole BUSINESS WORLD to bash - time to open dozens of new accounts on every forum out there and bash bash bash - then stop buying cheap Chinese clothes and walk around naked - this will nicely complement your cool shiny new sticker. Wear it proudly! ;-)


RE: Recipe for success
By sxr7171 on 8/4/2006 12:06:34 AM , Rating: 2
That's because a good Thinkpad or Toshiba ultraportable beats the crap out of a plastic, cheaply built MacBook. They weigh much less, are smaller, and they are constructed of Magnesium alloy. Sure the MacBooks are cheaper, but that is reflected in what you get.


RE: Recipe for success
By Pirks on 8/4/2006 11:59:21 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Sure the MacBooks are cheaper
Yesss!! Some AT reader AT LAST noticed Macs being CHEAPER while others still live in their nice cushy cells - the show goes on! Now, how much time passes before TWO and then THREE and more AT readers notice that? I guess it's like OS/2 - the OS itself is dead for many years but there is a bunch of OS/2 diehards still living in their cells - same stuff with PC vs Mac "price legend" - it'll live on forever! Just like OS/2.


RE: Recipe for success
By Pirks on 8/3/2006 3:42:36 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
be more like Apple
Kind of, better to say "get some nice perks from Apple while keeping Windows as open as you can" - this means continue open PC architecture and don't slip into too proprietary Apple heaven, while doing away with past uberstupidity which all this Vista hype turned out - promise this and that and get totally different thing. Well, at least Apple doesn't PUBLICLY display cutting off their OS features - could you Redmond gurus please try to behave the same and don't quarter your OS in public? Do it quietly so that nobody knows about your uber FS and how it was beheaded - this was so sad and sick. I mean, Apple definitely has high-class PR and marketing machine which MS should learn from. But learn carefully - don't copy them. Something like this :)


RE: Recipe for success
By yonzie on 8/4/2006 7:33:39 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
better to say "get some nice perks from Apple while keeping Windows as open as you can" - this means continue open PC architecture and don't slip into too proprietary Apple heaven

Since when has Windows been open?

The reason you can run MS Office in WINE and interoperate with Windows shares from Linux or a Mac is because Microsoft has documented Windows *so* thoroughly and lets virtually everyone see their source code, right?
Or not...

In contrast, the Mac kernel* and large parts of the system is open source.

"Open Windows" - The most obvious contradiction** of the last 20 years.

* Yes, I know they pulled the x86 version, I'm sure it'll appear again after Leopard is released.
** Wrong word, but the correct one eludes me at the moment.


RE: Recipe for success
By Pirks on 8/5/2006 12:41:47 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
Since when has Windows been open?
Since the time Apple started selling closed Macs - computers you can't reasonably upgrade or assemble by yourself. Compared to any Mac, a Windows PC is open like a Linux kernel.
quote:
The reason you can run MS Office in WINE and interoperate with Windows shares from Linux or a Mac is because Microsoft has documented Windows *so* thoroughly and lets virtually everyone see their source code, right?
Right. You can't do that stuff with OS X - you can't run it anywhere, in any VM/emulator/Wine like Windows, you can't do sh1t with it - hence it's again uberopen _compared_ to Mac.
quote:
"Open Windows" - The most obvious contradiction of the last 20 years.
While "Proprietary closed to death Mac" is not a contradiction, UNFORTUNATELY.
quote:
I know they pulled the x86 version, I'm sure it'll appear again after Leopard is released.
I wish I were as naive as you - gosh, sweet childish dreams, where are you? I'm old and not dreaming anymore, so you won't find companion in me on this topic, that's for sure.


RE: Recipe for success
By Pirks on 8/3/2006 4:09:24 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
You mean, be more like Apple?


No! Like ID Software! ;-)

Check this out:

"Microsoft was fooled into announcing a ship date because it felt that its customers were losing faith in the company's ability to deliver. What Microsoft didn't realize is that the way to win back customers' hearts isn't to make bold proclamations; it's to actually do the right thing.
In other words, Microsoft should have simply pulled an Id Software and said they'd ship Windows Vista when it was ready. Period."

The only question is why Thurrott haven't mentioned Apple there even once, but replaced it with ID Software - ah well he's a Windows reporter, he must be afraid of losing face or something.


RE: Recipe for success
By rushfan2006 on 8/3/2006 3:42:32 PM , Rating: 2
True. I would add the single most powerful "secret" to success....4) UNDER promise and OVER deliver.

It always cracks me up how some folks in business are amazed at the praise either individuals gets or whatever...you know what the smart folks do in business -- they follow the "under promise and over deliver" guideline. Makes you constantly look like you are some "hotshot" in your field or at the least -- makes you just look like you know what the hell you are doing.

And to think some folks spend THOUSANDS attending these "how to be successful in business" seminars....lol.

Step one: Customer is first. PERIOD.
Step two: Have a personality, have manners, use common sense.
Step three: Under promise/over deliver.
Step four: Be professional at all times (this includes your appearance)
step five: DO NOT TAKE YOURSELF OVERLY SERIOUS.

Step Six...rinse repeat as needed.

There lesson done. send me my seminar money now.


RE: Recipe for success
By Pirks on 8/3/2006 3:45:18 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
UNDER promise and OVER deliver
Wow, you reformulated my three sentences into just one - nice job! I should have said just that instead of splitting it into three - your point is better and definitely more clear than mine. Thanks :-)


RE: Recipe for success
By sh3rules on 8/3/2006 8:24:14 PM , Rating: 2
That's good advice.


By Master Kenobi (blog) on 8/3/2006 4:07:26 PM , Rating: 4
This is probably the #1 reason corporations will get it first. Bugstomping. Large companies like say the one I work for, employ a fairly good sized IT division. Companies with Volume License agreements like mine will get a copy of Vista, and we will immediately proceed to throw it on two dozen clone laptops and play with them. Corporations are in most cases better equipped to isolate bugs and report them, in some cases even figure out how to fix it and report that to Microsoft. Last but not least, because Corporations are well aware of how buggy ALL software is on release, and how poorly it works in corporate environments without tweaking by the IT groups. We know its going to be buggy, more so when we get it into our specialized atmosphere, but were more than willing to tackle it and test it and tweak it.

The mainstream DELL or AOHELL moron is not, and will cry up and down end over end how it just "doesn't work". I deal with this every day at work, stupid lusers that their whole job revolves around their computer and they are too stupid to know how to operate or maintain it. This is NOT who Microsoft wants to ship to initially. It would be a disaster. Betatesters do a good job, but corporations do it better because we employ some of the biggest morons that have ever laid hands on a computer. The Corporate IT support and deployment teams are the best place to send something if you want good quality feedback in volume.

'nuff said.




By Pirks on 8/3/2006 4:27:27 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Betatesters do a good job, but corporations do it better because we employ some of the biggest morons that have ever laid hands on a computer. The Corporate IT support and deployment teams are the best place to send something if you want good quality feedback in volume.
Nice! Question answered, thanks! At lest it's now clear for me - MS uses corporate shipments as the one last volley of bug-squashing before finally releasing it to the public. THEREFORE we WILL see Vista SP1 before January 2007! Or whatever the date of the first public non-corporate release is going to be.


By androticus on 8/3/2006 11:46:25 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
we WILL see Vista SP1 before [...] the first public non-corporate release

Highly unlikely. The extra time window between corporate release and public release is to give retail PC sellers like HP time to install it on their new machines and ship them out to the retail stores. So HP et al. will be getting Vista at the same time as the corporate customers, it will be the same version. And as well, it actually takes quite awhile to get the first service pack ready--the issues have to roll in from all the corporate and personal users, they have to prioritize, develop fixes, do betas on the SP etc. -- don't expect Vista SP1 until Q4 '07 I would guess.


By dice1111 on 8/4/2006 10:45:11 AM , Rating: 2
Just lots, and lots, and lots, and lots, and lots of Windows updates between then and the release date. ;)


Instantaneous?
By pookemon on 8/3/06, Rating: 0
RE: Instantaneous?
By RandomFool on 8/3/2006 3:59:26 PM , Rating: 2
I don't know what kind of PC you have but I don't find myself waiting for folders on local drives on my 850mhz athlon. The network instant instant I'll agree but it usually goes pretty quick for me.


RE: Instantaneous?
By bersl2 on 8/3/2006 5:34:21 PM , Rating: 2
You don't notice how, as opposed to, say, one window or even one part thereof, the entire graphical shell blocks on any significant I/O? You might want to have your temporal-cognitive abilities checked out.


RE: Instantaneous?
By RandomFool on 8/4/2006 10:55:14 AM , Rating: 2
I don't know what you said made any sense but he said he was waiting for a list of folders on a local PC which shouldn't cause a long wait, unless of course you've got 10000 folders and then you need to think about a little bit of organization.


RE: Instantaneous?
By ssvegeta1010 on 8/4/2006 2:32:47 AM , Rating: 2
Network Places access IS instant, because it doesn't check to see if the computer is still networked. Sometimes shared folders on computers that are shut down will show up and just say they aren't available when I click. This is on my home network of a paltry 4 computers. 2 on XP Pro, 1 XP home, 1 XP Media Center, 2 wireless, 2 wired.


And the blog universe eats itself...
By androticus on 8/3/2006 11:38:04 PM , Rating: 2
A blog post which is almost 100% quoting of or paraphrasing of another blog post is not even close to legitimate. Or at least this notion wasn't legitimate before blogging reduced mankind's information signal to noise ratio by many scores of dB.




By MrDiSante on 8/4/2006 5:44:49 PM , Rating: 2
Agreed. I mean really, why don't they just take every entry that Paul makes on his winsupersite (http://www.winsupersite.com - got some pretty interesting reviews and contrary to the impression you might get from DT most of them are positive) and post it here. Sometimes the things that get posted here, make me lose faith in mankind. Oh and to the thread below this about List/Details view, here's your answer: Yes.


Good point
By ksherman on 8/3/2006 3:26:17 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
(Which brings me to a side issue: Why ship Vista to enterprises with volume license agreements before shipping it to consumers? Businesses are not going to install Vista anyway. Why waste the effort?)


thats a really good point... why would a buisness spend a ton of money on something brand new that is sure to have some pretty serious issues upon release? Im still running off Win2000 at work with no plan to use XP in the near future. I think they will get the most sales from new computer purchasers and people who are actually computer literate.




RE: Good point
By Pirks on 8/3/06, Rating: 0
By techhappy on 8/7/2006 12:58:47 AM , Rating: 2
We can probably wait 6 months to a year after release before all the proper stability patches are in place. In the meanwhile, we can all enjoy our XP OS before making the jump into Bill Gates' money donation bin.

Let's hope Vista is really a vista and not a mesa....eeeeee.......





By Pirks on 8/3/2006 3:58:03 PM , Rating: 1
"Or take IE 7. Please. I use IE for one thing and one thing only: The magazine's Web portal requires IE to post articles, and because I post WinInfo articles every day, I need to use IE. Every day. In IE 7, the rich edit control that forms the basis of the third party ActiveX control we used to post article bodies not only doesn't work, it is actually deprecated in Vista so that it will never work, even if you manually install it. That means I will have to use an older version of IE, in a virtual machine, to post WinInfo articles for the foreseeable future. Stupid."

So Thurrott's web designer is stupid enough to make use of obsolete IE-only controls and now MS is responsible for that? I guess his remark "stupid" is about his web site designer - the guy's must be as brain dead as any of your IE-only webmaster next door ;-)




listview ?
By brian87432 on 8/4/2006 4:53:07 AM , Rating: 1
Have they added LISTVIEW mode back yet in explorer ?




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