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Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer argues that he'd rather have Windows Phone handsets be like Apple's iPhone than like Android phones.  (Source: Telegraph)
"You ... need to be a computer scientist to use... an Android phone" -- Steve Ballmer

Is Google Inc.'s (GOOG) Android to complicated for the public?

The tens of millions of smartphones it is unloading on the U.S. market and its dominant market share lead would seem to suggest otherwise.  But that didn't stop Microsoft Corp.'s (MSFT) boisterous chief executive, Steve Ballmer, from sharing his thoughts with whoever would listen.

At the Web 2.0 Summit in San Francisco, California, he told reporters, "You don’t need to be a computer scientist to use a Windows phone and you do to use an Android phone…It is hard for me to be excited about the Android phones.

Mr. Ballmer had kinder words for Apple, Inc. (AAPL), with which it hopes to via for second place in the market.  Mr. Ballmer revealed he's a fan of Siri, the "humble personal assistant" found in the iPhone 4S.  He comments, "Apple is a good competitor, but a different one.  Both [an iPhone and a Windows phone] are going to feel very good in your hand and both going to look very beautiful physically…"

"But when you grab a Windows phone and use it… your information is front and centre… and you don’t have to scroll through seas of icons and blah blah blah.  A Windows phone gets things done."

The one thing it can't seem to get done is generating market share.  Despite a promising Mango update, Microsoft remains a distant fourth place in the platform wars behind Research in Motion, Ltd. (TSE:RIM), Apple, and Google.

Despite his love for the iPhone, Mr. Ballmer says that Microsoft won't opt to follow in its footsteps and release first-party hardware.  He comments, "We are [only] focused on enabling hardware innovation…We have been very successful enabling hardware innovation and will continue to do so."

Source: Telegraph



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Steve Ballmer is Correct
By Arsynic on 10/19/2011 12:00:10 PM , Rating: 3
Android is the Linux of smartphone OSes. ICS is an improvement, but Android is ugly, complicated and has severe performance issues. It's a shame when you have to do the phone equivalent of Ctrl+Alt+Del to kill processes that hang the OS.

People have different expectations of phones than they do of computers. Phones are just supposed to work. Although smartphones are more "communicators" than telephones, people see them as phones first. This is where I like MS and Apple's OS model. You give users and developers too much control and you end up with a segmented and buggy mess.




RE: Steve Ballmer is Correct
By TakinYourPoints on 10/19/11, Rating: 0
RE: Steve Ballmer is Correct
By Reclaimer77 on 10/19/2011 1:05:48 PM , Rating: 5
I don't know how you can make such eloquent over-generalizations about Androids problems while also being completely ignorant to the overwhelming popularity of the OS and device adoption. If even half of what you said was the majority end-user experience, there's just no way Android would have the market share it does.

Apple had the easiest road. They simply ported the iPod touch OS to their phone, made a few changes, and bingo.
Android has minor issues, at best. Which will be fixed as the OS is improved on. ICS is a pretty good start I would say.

quote:
The problem is that Microsoft's marketing push has paled in comparison to Android being marketed hard by every single carrier and handset manufacturer out there.


That's because Microsoft wouldn't put their OS on phones people actually wanted to buy for the longest time! It also didn't help that Windows Mobile was such a huge failure, and people still associate that with any "Windows" phone. Don't blame the carriers, blame their Apple-esque walled garden approach. The carriers are in business to sell phones and lock you into a plan for two years, not to push a particular OS over another.

Also Android fills an important market segment that Apple and Microsoft apparently care nothing for. The non-smartphone mobile phone segment. Believe it or not, there's lots of people out there who just want a basic phone to make calls and text on and very little else.

Balmer is only saying this because Google is their biggest threat right now. In the next few years we're going to be witnessing a tech-provider showdown of historic proportions as Google and MS bash horns. Apple sells devices and makes lots of money, but so what? They leverage no widely used services like Google, Gmail and YouTube which can be leveraged through Android. They aren't as diversified. Their entire revenue stream depends on consumer devices and iTunes/App store.


RE: Steve Ballmer is Correct
By Reclaimer77 on 10/19/2011 1:09:20 PM , Rating: 5
p.s. I just find it ironic, and almost hypocritical, of Balmer to pull the "you need to be a computer scientist" tactic out of his pocket. Given their reaction to Apple using the same ignorant approach in the "Mac vs PC" add campaign. Just like Windows, the market is proving that everyone isn't a drooling mouthbreather, and they can "work" Android just fine.


RE: Steve Ballmer is Correct
By jiffylube1000 on 10/19/2011 5:17:25 PM , Rating: 2
Me too. Android certainly isn't more difficult to work than Windows. It's lines like these that are the reason why I dislike Balmer. He's just such a raging hypocrite.


RE: Steve Ballmer is Correct
By maven81 on 10/19/2011 1:42:46 PM , Rating: 3
"Apple had the easiest road. They simply ported the iPod touch OS to their phone, made a few changes, and bingo."

I hate to be defending apple here, but you do realize the iPod touch came after the iPhone right? Many months in fact, if I remember correctly.
What gets me is not this... it's that I recall them revealing at some point that the iPad project is what was started first, but then they realized the kind of demand they could generate with the phone and switched gears. If true, this makes all the talk about "innovation" laughable as the iPhone was basically a beta test for the iPad. Yet you'll see even documentaries on jobs claim that the iPad was a brilliant followup. Amazing really.

Anyway, getting back on topic... Microsoft is failing because they don't have enough hardware. I really, really want to play with a windows phone, but my carrier sprint had ONE windows phone that I could play with. Compared to something like 20 android models. You hear that microsoft? You want me to buy it, make sure the phones are out there!


RE: Steve Ballmer is Correct
By cjohnson2136 on 10/19/2011 1:44:41 PM , Rating: 2
Actually you should try the HTC arrive. I really liked and would still have it if not for having to cut back expenses and traded down to a dumb phone.


RE: Steve Ballmer is Correct
By maven81 on 10/19/2011 1:58:14 PM , Rating: 2
It looks great to me! I just wish it had a slightly bigger screen. 4" would be just about perfect.


RE: Steve Ballmer is Correct
By Chadder007 on 10/19/2011 4:42:37 PM , Rating: 2
Thats what Ive been waiting for also. Something with a 4-4.5 inch screen.


RE: Steve Ballmer is Correct
By The Raven on 10/19/2011 3:58:01 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
if not for having to cut back expenses and traded down to a dumb phone.
Where you at? Boost mobile. I just cut expenses myself and we just got a Samsung Galaxy Exclaim upgraded from a 'dumb' phone on Sprint. It is severely limited but much better than a 'dumb' phone.

How was that a savings? Well I am spinning it pretty good, but we had 2 phones on a $60/mo family plan (but averaged $80 due to overages). We cut it down to one smartphone and unlimited phone/data/text on Boost for $50/mo (which will shrink down to $35/mo after 18 months BTW).

Anyway I just like to tell people about it because I had no idea about prepaids and always thought they were just for people who can't pay bills lol.


RE: Steve Ballmer is Correct
By cjohnson2136 on 10/19/2011 4:11:19 PM , Rating: 2
I looked into Boost but I could find it being offered in my area. I went from Verizon to Sprint and that helped lower and then we dropped our data plan which helped lower it a little more.


RE: Steve Ballmer is Correct
By Arsynic on 10/19/11, Rating: 0
RE: Steve Ballmer is Correct
By omnicronx on 10/19/2011 4:42:19 PM , Rating: 2
Lies, iOS freezes all the time..

Would tend to agree about the Android pricepoint though..


RE: Steve Ballmer is Correct
By Reclaimer77 on 10/19/2011 5:02:01 PM , Rating: 5
quote:
How many Android users do you think are getting 100% out of their phones?


Hell how many people get 100% from their smart phones in general? Very few, on ANY platform. These things are basically PC's and most people talk, surf the web, and text and that's IT. What kind of argument is that anyway?

quote:
People have simply chosen Android because it was the cheaper alternative.


Before the iPhone 4S, Android had surpassed Apple in smart phone sales. High end models. So I think we can soundly disprove this argument.

quote:
I'm just speaking from experience which has been echoed by others. I never had to reboot my iPhone. I never had to kill a process that locked up my phone.


Good for you! Don't you think you're being a little myopic here? I've never had to reboot my Galaxy S2 yet either, so I guess that cancels your experience out.

You've never had to do those things because Apple has the most locked down approach and iOS is probably the worst multitasker on the market. Seriously, it's terrible. If that's a tradeoff you're happy to make, great. This has been debated ad nausea, it's easier to have a more unified experience when you totally lock everything and everyone down.

Apple cranks a single phone model out like once every 15 months, I mean holy crap, let's get real here. Anyone taking that long on something should release a polished and stable product. You guys act like they deserve a medal for this.


RE: Steve Ballmer is Correct
By sgtdisturbed47 on 10/19/11, Rating: -1
RE: Steve Ballmer is Correct
By TakinYourPoints on 10/23/2011 8:03:18 PM , Rating: 1
A well thought out and reasoned post with -1 votes. Nope, the fanboys don't rule the asylum here at all.


RE: Steve Ballmer is Correct
By jiffylube1000 on 10/19/2011 5:19:28 PM , Rating: 3
Yeah giving customers choice is a real drag.

Also, it's a bit misleading to compare "$200" Apple iPhones to "$0" Android phones, considering that you need to sign on to 2 or 3 year contracts to get those phones. When you drop the subsidies we're really talking about $300/$400 phones vs. $600 phones.


RE: Steve Ballmer is Correct
By TakinYourPoints on 10/23/2011 8:01:31 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I don't know how you can make such eloquent over-generalizations about Androids problems while also being completely ignorant to the overwhelming popularity of the OS and device adoption.


Popularity and quality do not automatically go hand in hand, if that was the case then Britney Spears should be automatically considered one of the greatest musicians in history.


RE: Steve Ballmer is Correct
By Jeffk464 on 10/19/2011 7:22:41 PM , Rating: 2
News story should say Steve Ballmer rips android because he is pissed off windows phone can't gain any market share against it.


RE: Steve Ballmer is Correct
By TakinYourPoints on 10/26/2011 6:18:33 AM , Rating: 2
WP7 is a far superior platform than Android. Logically speaking it should be doing well, but carriers and hardware manufacturer market Android like crazy because they make more profit on them than iOS or WP7, and they put it on cheap hardware to move as many units as possible.

Just because it's popular doesn't mean it's good. It is among the worst of the mobile options out there at the moment (worst would go to Blackberry's touch OS).


RE: Steve Ballmer is Correct
By rocketbuddha on 10/19/2011 12:37:39 PM , Rating: 2
Before Win 7, Windows Mobile phones had a "RESET" switch to restart the phone. I have a aging Win 6.3 Mobile fone and when I call for any support the first qn they suggest is
a) Sir, have u pressed the RESET button and are u still having the issue.
LOL!

All Stevie needs Android for is to have a reason to extort Android manufacturers with licensing (undisclosed) fees and force Windows 7 licensing.


RE: Steve Ballmer is Correct
By Mitch101 on 10/19/2011 12:58:25 PM , Rating: 1
I have never had to reset my Windows Phone 7. Not once in the past year and Im not the only one. It has never crashed or hung. No mystery select icon and nothing happens.

Microsoft's Windows Phone 7 is the most stable mobile phone OS
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/cell-phones/microsofts-w...

Windows Phone 7
Zero! That is how many times I have seen a reset on ANY Windows Phone 7 device that I have been using in over a year. During that time I have used at least six WP7 devices on all four wireless carriers.


RE: Steve Ballmer is Correct
By B3an on 10/19/2011 2:15:51 PM , Rating: 2
He was talking about Windows MOBILE, not WP7. I agree that WP7 is the most stable (and most polished) OS out there. But Win Mobile was the total opposites. It's actually an amazing turnaround for MS.


RE: Steve Ballmer is Correct
By Arsynic on 10/19/2011 4:43:26 PM , Rating: 1
Win Mobile was horrible. My wife owned a Samsung Omnia and it was garbage. She had to RESET (not reboot, RESET) her phone monthly. It was just a mini PC. People don't want a mini PC they want a smartphone.

WinMobile was so bad that even MS had to reboot...the whole fucking platform.


RE: Steve Ballmer is Correct
By priusone on 10/19/2011 2:19:49 PM , Rating: 1
So true. I used to have to reset my Windows 98 quite a bit, but Windows (non mobile) 7, well, it only needs reset after some security patches.

A valid complaint would be WMP; why is it that other media players pause and play with the well hidden Space Bar, yet unless you dig through the menus, it's Ctrl-P on WMP? It doesn't bug me, personally, but it drives my non-tech friends nuts. Sure, Ballmer can complain about Android, but perhaps he could do something more constructive, like find out an easier way to pause a video. And before anyone comes to Microsofts defense, I know what the Space Bar does in WMP.


RE: Steve Ballmer is Correct
By sprockkets on 10/19/2011 3:37:33 PM , Rating: 3
I've never had to reset my android phone either. What does my experience and the article's author experience mean?

That anecdotal evidence means NOTHING .


RE: Steve Ballmer is Correct
By Red Storm on 10/19/2011 12:49:19 PM , Rating: 4
But if that were true Android would be dead last in marketshare...

I've used all 3 OSes, and I stick with Android because I am in control of how information is presented to me. WP7 was nice at first, and then that 1-2 second animation with the tiles falling away really got on my nerves because I had to see it every single time I wanted to do anything with the phone.


RE: Steve Ballmer is Correct
By NellyFromMA on 10/19/2011 1:41:23 PM , Rating: 1
That's not true. Look at Windows. It was actualyl originally designed FOR scientists and the like really, not general consumers. Some argue it still isn't refined enough, not that I agree on that though.

Still, it has been and will continue to be for the foreseeable future the worlds most used desktop and server OS.

What happens, though, is eventually it runs like crap and then gets slow and buggy, which leads to disdain and ultimately losing market share.

Sound familiar? It should.


RE: Steve Ballmer is Correct
By Red Storm on 10/19/2011 1:51:21 PM , Rating: 3
Except that Android isn't losing marketshare, it is gaining more each time we take a look. That puts any argument that consumers don't like Android to shame.


RE: Steve Ballmer is Correct
By NellyFromMA on 10/21/2011 2:03:30 PM , Rating: 2
Android is still in its infancy. How long was Windows around before it started feeling the raimfication of its design choices.


RE: Steve Ballmer is Correct
By StanO360 on 10/19/2011 2:55:21 PM , Rating: 3
Ok, that is just silly "designed for scientists"? Ok, this is how it works. You had DOS, people started building front ends for it (including Apple). There were lots of task managers, including ones with window type functions.

Microsoft developed Excel and Word for Macs (the only fully windowed platform though not multi-tasking) they were the complete underdogs in a Word Perfect/Lotus world. They created Windows to bring a more flexible face to DOS and bring the graphic versions of those programs to the DOS world. Not for scientists, but everyone. And the succeeded with Windows, and the whole Office suite.

It will continue to dominate, because it's flexible, compatible, easy to program for, and easy enough for most people.


RE: Steve Ballmer is Correct
By NellyFromMA on 10/21/2011 2:04:37 PM , Rating: 2
Look it up before going spastic. It was designed ORIGINALLY for scientists, mathmaticians the like.

And try not to cry so much, I'm pro-Windows. I'm just telling it like it is. You dont have to see it.


By Shining Arcanine on 10/22/2011 2:45:52 PM , Rating: 2
Windows was designed as a replacement for OS/2, which was designed by IBM for businesses. The idea that Windows was designed for scientists is wrong.

Scientists in the physical sciences used UNIX and FORTRAN until Linux managed to replace in the top 500. They still use FORTRAN to this day, a language for which Microsoft has dropped support. Computer scientists used BSD and then more recently Linux. Windows managed to get something of a foothold with some people who had it come preinstalled on their systems and were either theorists (i.e. they didn't care) or don't care as long as it lets them do office work, but that is about it.


RE: Steve Ballmer is Correct
By Mitch101 on 10/19/11, Rating: -1
RE: Steve Ballmer is Correct
By Iaiken on 10/19/2011 1:32:59 PM , Rating: 4
quote:
They need to stabilize Android it crashes way too much.


Really? Because I have seven Android phones for and testing that I use all the time. Even the LG EVE (the cheapest/slowest/crappiest of them) has been running non-stop for 2 years now without crashing once. In fact, I don't even remember the last time one of my phones crashed when I wasn't deliberately trying to crash it.

quote:
It seems if you own Android based device OS support for that device is dead in about a year.


Depends on the manufacturer. I'll concede that LG and lower-tier Sony Xperia devices are trapped on 1.6 & 2.1 because of lack of, but all of my other phones OS's have been updated numerous times. Some have even gone from 1.5 to 2.3 over their lifetimes. Even then, if you do your research you can get trapped behind slow support cycles like with Motorola.


RE: Steve Ballmer is Correct
By NellyFromMA on 10/19/2011 1:46:23 PM , Rating: 3
Im pretty sure the majority of Android users don't REALLY care about the latest and greatest anything. They have filled a void they never knew they had, which is "more internet consumption pls" and frankly, the way the phone appears on the outside is probably more important to them than anything else about it really.

I'm not saying there isn't a group of people who are all about the latest and greatest mobile specs, but I doubt it's even 1/3 of the Android market share.

Most people bought it due to recommendation from either a sales person and/or word of mouth or watching a tv ad.

True story.


RE: Steve Ballmer is Correct
By StanO360 on 10/19/2011 2:58:34 PM , Rating: 2
I have a cheap Android phone, and it's fine. Someone else nailed iOS, the AOL of phones. They will harvest the good ideas from WP7 and Android and call them new names.


RE: Steve Ballmer is Correct
By mcnabney on 10/19/2011 2:28:06 PM , Rating: 2
First, WP7 devices are still only available with ancient (1 year old) hardware because Microsoft appears to be incapable of managing their ecosystem. They are doing all of the lame micromanaging that Apple does, except they aren't Apple.

Second, Balmer should shut his pie hole about Android. Unlike WP7, Microsoft has actually made some money off of Android. So far, MS hasn't made a nickel off of the phones that are out there (due to manufacture incentives), plus they are out a few billion for development costs, several hundred millions in ads, and a cool billion for the bribe to Nokia.

Third, the world could do with a little less Microsoft. They screwed their consumers as hard as they could with Windows Mobile and now that they see the tablet/phone might soon be REPLACING the desktop they are trying to make nice. Sorry Microsoft. You can't just write checks until you are market leader.


RE: Steve Ballmer is Correct
By cjohnson2136 on 10/19/2011 2:30:04 PM , Rating: 1
Apple fanboi SHUT UP. It is so irritating seeing your post also bashing anything that's not Apple.


RE: Steve Ballmer is Correct
By mcnabney on 10/20/2011 9:15:40 AM , Rating: 2
Apple fanboi? The last Apple product I owned was a 2e (still works, wow). I hate Apple as much as Microsoft. They both horribly warp the industry.


RE: Steve Ballmer is Correct
By TakinYourPoints on 10/26/2011 6:23:29 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
Android users are all about the latest hardware if the OS was well tuned you can get much more performance from it. Ask an android user and they ramble about their hardware not what the device is doing for them.
Android users are all about the latest hardware if the OS was well tuned you can get much more performance from it. Ask an android user and they ramble about their hardware not what the device is doing for them.


The irony is that they still get choppier performance than WP7 or iOS even on faster hardware.

The Android OS itself and the ecosystem around it is trash. Hardware specs are irrelevant marketing bulletpoints for neckbeards and spergers to drool over while they blindly accept the inferior practical experience they are getting.

It's as bad as the AMD fanboys who say Bulldozer is great "because more megahurtz!!1!" even though practical performance it is comparable to or slower than an i7 from two years ago.


RE: Steve Ballmer is Correct
By retrospooty on 10/19/2011 12:56:49 PM , Rating: 5
"Android is the Linux of smartphone OSes. ICS is an improvement, but Android is ugly, complicated and has severe performance issues. It's a shame when you have to do the phone equivalent of Ctrl+Alt+Del to kill processes that hang the OS.

People have different expectations of phones than they do of computers. Phones are just supposed to work."


And its the highest seller, outselling IOS by 5/2 and RIM by 10/1 because of of what now?

Its not complicated to use. Its icon driven just like all other OS's. Point and click has become point and touch, but its not any different.


RE: Steve Ballmer is Correct
By gwidionx on 10/19/2011 1:33:34 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
And its the highest seller, outselling IOS by 5/2 and RIM by 10/1 because of of what now?


Uh, maybe because there are like hundreds of Android devices on the market in all price ranges on all carriers?


RE: Steve Ballmer is Correct
By gladiatorua on 10/19/2011 2:36:38 PM , Rating: 2
EXACTLY!
You can choose.
Or you can go to Apple and choose iPhone or iPhone... or maybe iPhone? Oh... and now there is white and fat one that doesn't fit into some cases. OFFICIAL APPLE APPROVED CASES.
WP7 might be great, but too little too late.
You don't have a choice between sexy Droid RAZR and newest and most supported Galaxy Nexus. You just have an iPhone. Year after year. With minor upgrades and WTF-stunts like pulling Siri from market and people who used it for a long time and restricting it to new shiny money-shreder.


RE: Steve Ballmer is Correct
By Jeffk464 on 10/20/2011 12:11:34 AM , Rating: 2
Yup, totally agree. MS had to beat google to the market with a decent phone OS before android got to much traction. They brought their product to the market late and now have a big time uphill battle.


RE: Steve Ballmer is Correct
By augiem on 10/20/2011 2:16:24 PM , Rating: 2
Everyone seems to forget that smart phones have not reached saturation. 151.8 million Americans use non-smartphones according to below.

"For the three month average period ending in July, 234 million Americans ages 13 and older used mobile devices."
"82.2 million people in the U.S. owned smartphones during the three months ending in July 2011, up 10 percent from the preceding three month period."
Source: http://www.comscore.com/Press_Events/Press_Release...

151 million people is a huge untapped market. Nokia and Windows 7 don't HAVE to get ALL their users by luring away existing customers from Google and Apple. There are still plenty of us out there who don't own smartphones.

There is still massive growth going on in the smartphone sector and it will likely not stop until smartphones replace feature phones entirely (once the tech is cheap enough). And those figures are US only. If I'm not wrong, world-wide that gap is even larger.


RE: Steve Ballmer is Correct
By retrospooty on 10/19/2011 2:58:06 PM , Rating: 4
"Uh, maybe because there are like hundreds of Android devices on the market in all price ranges on all carriers?"

You say that like its a bad thing. Its not only a good thing, its a GREAT thing!. Variety, Apple should try it. Even poopy RIM has some variety, although they could use more. I would like to see a smaller iphone, as well as a larger one, and maybe even one with removable battery and a qwerty keyboard.


RE: Steve Ballmer is Correct
By adiposity on 10/19/2011 3:39:39 PM , Rating: 2
It is a good thing, however, that doesn't make the OS good. It just means if you have a lot of options, you will get more marketshare.

Personally I do think android is superior in many ways to other OSes, but it does lag IOS and Phone7 in performance.


RE: Steve Ballmer is Correct
By gwidionx on 10/19/2011 3:52:11 PM , Rating: 2
I didn't mean for it to sound like that, more like an obvious statement. The sheer number of devices and variety of price alone is enough IMO to propel Android to #1 and kind of reduces any negative impact the perceived more complex interface may have had. Choice and variety is a good thing. I wish WebOS could have been offered on 3rd party devices like Android. Then we'd have another hardware agnostic choice, which would have been great.


RE: Steve Ballmer is Correct
By retrospooty on 10/20/2011 9:57:56 AM , Rating: 2
"I wish WebOS could have been offered on 3rd party devices like Android"

Me too... That was my ideal phone. Droid3 hardware with WebOS on it. Too bad about Palm.


RE: Steve Ballmer is Correct
By gwidionx on 10/19/2011 1:33:43 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
And its the highest seller, outselling IOS by 5/2 and RIM by 10/1 because of of what now?


Uh, maybe because there are like hundreds of Android devices on the market in all price ranges on all carriers?


RE: Steve Ballmer is Correct
By seamonkey79 on 10/19/2011 1:56:34 PM , Rating: 3
I can't believe that it's actually more difficult to use. My sister got her Droid 3 yesterday evening and after spending 20 minutes with it was already doing more with it and knew more about HOW to do things with it than my other sister and our mom know about their iPhone 4s that they've each had for a couple of months now.

In some ways, iOS is simpler, but part of that simplicity is an inability to do some things one would imagine should be easily doable. Having tried to navigate iOS when they ask me how to do something (they ask because I've had a smartphone for over a year now, so they're all the same, right?) Android is far easier to figure out, even if there is a list of 12 'settings' options instead of just 5... I can look at each of them and say "this should be here" and there it is, rather than iOS where I have to hope that the option exists, and then go find it in the generic 'settings' options.


RE: Steve Ballmer is Correct
By retrospooty on 10/19/2011 3:45:29 PM , Rating: 2
exactly... My 7 year old daughter is all over my Droid3 and has no problems at all monpolizing it from me.


RE: Steve Ballmer is Correct
By Cheesew1z69 on 10/19/2011 1:17:26 PM , Rating: 2
My droid x "just works"


RE: Steve Ballmer is Correct
By Kaldor on 10/19/2011 2:24:44 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
My droid x "just works"


Same here. Fantastically well built and stable phone for something that has been around for quite awhile now. Battery lasts easily a day with normal use. Great reception as well.

Makes my wifes Galaxy S look like a POS. Battery dies after 5-6 hours, and the reception is horrible. I blame the stability issues with her Galaxy S not so much on Android, but the s____y interface they added to it that seems to bog it down.


RE: Steve Ballmer is Correct
By Pirks on 10/19/2011 5:29:22 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
This is where I like MS and Apple's OS model.
RIM and Apple model you wanted to say. Just fixing your mistake. MS does not make hardware unlike RIM and Apple so don't expect such polished experience as with RIM or Apple.


In other words...
By dgingerich on 10/19/2011 12:26:05 PM , Rating: 4
In other words, he thinks most people are too stupid to handle an Android phone. Never mind that Android phones are selling hand over fist. My younger sister's family all have them, from the 12 year old gamer that barely gets passing grades in school to the 20 year old waiter to their restaurant manager father. They aren't stupid, but they aren't technical people, yet they love their Android phones.

Ballmer is just blowing marketing smoke. He's an arrogant ass trying to sell his product.




RE: In other words...
By acer905 on 10/19/2011 12:35:09 PM , Rating: 3
Yet the biggest question is have you or they ever tried WP7?

The experience is much different, both with regards to the speed and performance, as well as the way that information is displayed. With WP7, you can very easily glance at your screen for a second, and be completely up to date on all your info.

And the way that the hubs group things is awesome. Want to play a game? go to the games hub and you don't have to pick out what is a game and what is a productivity app.

Once you realize how simple using a phone can be, going back to Android seems like going back to Windows 95... (or even 3.1 :P )


RE: In other words...
By AmbroseAthan on 10/19/2011 1:14:08 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
And the way that the hubs group things is awesome. Want to play a game? go to the games hub and you don't have to pick out what is a game and what is a productivity app.


Did you really need help to figure out which icons to click to play a game?...


RE: In other words...
By cjohnson2136 on 10/19/2011 1:16:24 PM , Rating: 2
It's for organization. Same way that you have folders on a desktop to organize what is where.


RE: In other words...
By seamonkey79 on 10/19/2011 6:28:48 PM , Rating: 2
I have folders to take care of that, thanks. Before I had folders to do it (and when I had fewer games), I had screens devoted to it... It's not really that big of a deal.


RE: In other words...
By dark matter on 10/19/2011 1:18:30 PM , Rating: 2
"Yet the biggest question is have you or they ever tried WP7?"

Shouldn't Ballmer be asking that question, and then doing something about it rather than bitching.

If his product IS better then show people.

You don't have to be a genius to work it out.


RE: In other words...
By Belard on 10/20/2011 2:41:27 AM , Rating: 3
WP7 (Metro) interface is excellent for a phone. With my Android, I downloaded a WP7 "skin" launcher that gives me most of the interface of WP7, without it being WP7.

But honestly, I do recommend it WP7 for people, it is slick. Android 4.0 (Ice Cream) is very SLICK, looks like Goggle did a pretty good job, but I don't think they went far enough.

Going with 5 tiny button at the bottom for the BASIC function of the launcher (Phone / Contacts / Web / Messaging / Menu)... SUCKS!!

With the WP7 Launcher, the buttons "Tiles" are bigger... and they tell me things. How many phone calls I missed, email messages, voice mail, TEXT.

The pages of apps just looks like garbage, even thou they do look great in 4.0... its just messy. Is the icon I'm looking for on page 1, or 3 or 7?

I didn't actually like my Android phone until I installed Launcher 7. Froyo upgrade fixed a lot of things, but also made life harder, like some idiot at Google was hired to mess with people. Like the PHONE log that shows Text logs.


RE: In other words...
By TakinYourPoints on 10/26/2011 6:25:06 AM , Rating: 2
Excellent post. WP7 really is nice


RE: In other words...
By omnicronx on 10/19/2011 4:33:18 PM , Rating: 4
Marketshare does not somehow magically imply ease of use.

I find that for non technical users, Android's main draw is the price.

I'm an Android proponent and don't plan on switching anytime soon, but I would tend to agree with the central points Balmer made.(though he did take it a bit far).

If I were to give a new smartphone user 3 new phones (iPhone,Windows phone, Android device), I would not be at all surprised to see Android ranked lowest based on learning curve and ease of use.

A good example of this is something like default applications. Once you have one set, novice users have absolutely no idea how to switch back. This entire concept of resetting defaults and states is completely beyond most users.

Great OS, and Ice Cream Sandwich will help improve on a lot of things, but in its current state it can be very confusing and is certainly the least user friendly of the three in many cases.


RE: In other words...
By Jeffk464 on 10/19/2011 11:58:37 PM , Rating: 2
Androids main draw is that its a totally open platform and supported by just about every phone manufacturer except apple. You also can't overlook how well it integrates with all of your google services, nope its tough to beat. Sure iphone and WP7 might be better for people with learning disabilities because of their simpler user interface.


I don't disagree with his sentiment... however.
By VooDooAddict on 10/19/2011 12:38:53 PM , Rating: 2
While I don't disagree that Android phones don't have that great "Just work" factor going for it that iPhones, Classic RIM, and Palm phones had going for them.

However... Microsoft makes licensing money on most of the Android handsets sold. Why smack that with a sick?




By cjohnson2136 on 10/19/2011 12:41:20 PM , Rating: 2
Because maybe they would rather make more on their phones then android phones?


By Reclaimer77 on 10/19/2011 1:32:24 PM , Rating: 3
Microsoft doesn't care about their phones. What they care about is they see Android allowing Google to leverage their massive portfolio of services onto mobile platforms, and making hand over fist doing it. Microsoft cannot allow Google to beat them at their own game here.

It's not just phones either. Products like Logitech's Revue With Google TV prove that Android can also be a major player in your living room and compete with Xbox for Internet streaming box/device market share.

These are just the opening shots in which is sure to be a tech war of major proportions.


By OoklaTheMok on 10/19/2011 2:48:17 PM , Rating: 2
Honestly, Google TV and "major player" really do not belong together. I think WebTV in it's heyday had a better adaption rate than Google TV.


By Reclaimer77 on 10/19/2011 3:15:59 PM , Rating: 3
That's because it launched at something like $300. Now it's $99 and quite a deal. But I don't think I was claiming it would become "major". I was simply pointing out the threat Android poses to MS.

But if you think Google TV is doing bad, check Apple TV out lmao. It was dead on arrival.


What The...
By Belard on 10/20/11, Rating: 0
RE: What The...
By Belard on 10/20/2011 3:19:23 AM , Rating: 3
But Android is lacking in data / media management. ie: iTunes.

Samsung, Sony, Motorola have all kinds of different interfaces for these phones, some work - some don't. Samsung blows chunks in this area.


RE: What The...
By euler007 on 10/20/2011 9:33:40 AM , Rating: 2
Did you just say that MS-DOS was crappy? You realize that you have to compare it to SysV from 1985, not OS X. That's like saying that the model T is a joke compared to a Fisker Karma.

Hell, I was seven years old and had a bunch of batch file that would load all of my custom autoexex.bat and config.sys to manage my 640k of ram the best way it could. I still have fond memories of QEMM making my life easier.

Of course, my little finger tells me you're bashing MS-DOS but were born after windows 95 was released.


RE: What The...
By tecknurd on 10/24/2011 4:49:45 AM , Rating: 2
IMHO, Apple's Mac OS 9 and lower is related more to Windows 3.1 than Windows 95. Windows 95 is far advanced than Mac OS 9. At least Windows 3 at the time knew how to handle virtual memory while Mac OS 9 is require for the user to manually enter it in or else it will get locked up.

MS-DOS is power-user dream that is bursting at its seams if you are willing to learn DOS instead whine about it is not friendly. Yep, MS-DOS is not friendly because it is a command line interface for crying out loud. MS-DOS replace whatever OS the computer had to a friendlier one. I do think they even have an OS before MS-DOS came out. In those days, people have to know how to use a computer instead of stating I am computer illiterate. These days computer illiterate people are not challenged or not kicked out.


Wait a minute
By MeesterNid on 10/19/2011 12:06:40 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
Both [an iPhone and a Windows phone] are going to feel very good in your hand and both going to look very beautiful physically…


Didn't Microsoft hold a funeral for iPhone recently and now it's beautiful all of a sudden? The Ball needs to figure out what he thinks/where he stands.




RE: Wait a minute
By Obujuwami on 10/19/2011 1:17:48 PM , Rating: 3
Apple did the same thing with Vista, but with Windows 7 came out, they are doing exactly what Microsoft is doing: Praising a good product.

Remember the article that dropped a few weeks after the iPhone 4 was reviewed by Consumer Reports stating that the phone had a horrible hardware defect (antenna-gate)? Well, in that article, a senior vice president stated ..."the iPhone 4 may be their Vista, and I'm ok with that." Needless to say, Apple did exactly what Microsoft did with Vista to 7, they realized they screwed up and fixed it.

This is why Ballmer has no room for mocking the iPhone 4S.


RE: Wait a minute
By MeesterNid on 10/19/2011 2:03:49 PM , Rating: 1
Huh? That funeral was held long before iPhone 4S came out so your argument is a bit confused.


RE: Wait a minute
By Piiman on 10/19/2011 2:21:29 PM , Rating: 1
So he respects them for fixing their screwed up antenna? LOL OK


Google's response
By Larry Page on 10/19/2011 2:25:30 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
"You ... need to be a computer scientist to use... an Android phone" -- Steve Ballmer


how about this Steve: "you need to be a rocket scientist to use a Windows PC!"




RE: Google's response
By cjohnson2136 on 10/19/2011 2:25:33 PM , Rating: 2
Lies


RE: Google's response
By cjohnson2136 on 10/19/2011 2:25:58 PM , Rating: 2
You need to be a rocket scientist to FIX windows


Not suprised...
By SublimeSimplicity on 10/19/2011 12:24:56 PM , Rating: 5
that the brain trust that unleashed clippy on the world, would love Siri.




Keep talking about developers...
By Ramstark on 10/19/2011 12:57:23 PM , Rating: 2
Not users, developers, when you develop for Android, segmentation is really a huge problem, besides having to check for java versions. With the WP SDK, everything is already packed in and ready to use.
I think he must be thinking about that, because saying that users with Android phones must be computer geniuses is just wrong...




RE: Keep talking about developers...
By Piiman on 10/19/2011 2:25:24 PM , Rating: 2
Yeah its kind of ironic that the worlds largest maker of a icon driven OS (MS Windows) thinks that Android, and icon driven OS, is to hard to figure out. Too Funny!


Well Bally, there's just one problem...
By Boze on 10/19/2011 1:02:25 PM , Rating: 2
For a lot of users, the best specs are going to drive sales (this is especially true in Europe and the Middle East, much less so in America).

If I could use Windows Phone 7.5 on my Samsung Galaxy S II, then maybe I'd consider giving it a try.

As it happens, I'm locked into Android because I want to use the most technologically advanced smartphone.

The Windows Phone 7 offerings didn't feel compelling to me versus the Galaxy S II, and that's a big issue that needs to be addressed before we see any kind of significant traction with WP7.




By Belard on 10/20/2011 3:22:14 AM , Rating: 2
Samsung makes both Android and WP7 phones. Its the same hardware, other than the Firmware and required flash & camera shutter button.

You can go to the Android Market and download the free "WP7 Launcher".


Pointcast
By DrApop on 10/19/2011 8:37:04 PM , Rating: 2
For oldtimers here, MS 8/Mango reminds me of the 90's push technology called Pointcast. It was good 20 years ago....don't like it now. - I'm speaking only of the opening/front page of the MS operating system.




RE: Pointcast
By augiem on 10/20/2011 1:53:16 AM , Rating: 2
Curious. Any pics? I'm a fairly old timer (started web in earnest on Compuserve in 1991) but don't remember Pointcast offhand. Couldn't find anything meaningful on it except that it was a banner ad service.


First party hardware
By TakinYourPoints on 10/19/2011 12:22:01 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
Despite his love for the iPhone, Mr. Ballmer says that Microsoft won't opt to follow in its footsteps and release first-party hardware.


Whatever Ballmer says, it seems like they'll be doing it by proxy through Nokia. I mean, one of Microsoft's top execs became the Nokia CEO (first non-Finnish one in the company's history) months before the WP7 partnership was even announced. It almost feels as though Nokia is becoming the unofficial hardware arm of Microsoft.




Of course...
By Shadowself on 10/19/2011 12:02:33 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
He comments, "Apple is a good competitor, but a different one. Both [an iPhone and a Windows phone] are going to feel very good in your hand and both going to look very beautiful physically…"


It's very simple: The enemy of my enemy is my friend (well, sort of).

Additionally, Apple is licensing a lot of APIs, etc. from Microsoft for the iPhone and iPad so that they can be integrated into Microsoft's enterprise environment. So effectively, Apple is paying Balmer to say nice things about them.




By kookyMooky on 10/19/2011 12:03:59 PM , Rating: 2
Blatant marketing talk. It's pretty obvious he's positioning his phone between Apple and Android in attempt to drum up sales. At least he didn't try to go head to head against Apple like HP did and fall flat on their face.




ok ballmer
By sprockkets on 10/19/2011 12:44:23 PM , Rating: 2
When your OS's market shart gets big enough to be listed from the "other" category in market share, you can then start trash talking.

Otherwise, you have no reason to brag.




Microsoft vs Android
By hartleyb on 10/19/2011 2:35:51 PM , Rating: 1
Both Microsoft and Apple really don't care how successful Android is becuase, Microsoft gets over $15.00, and Apple over $35.00, per android phone sold due to patent licensing. This why Google bought Motorola to try and get away from all the licensing cost it pays to both Apple and Micosoft. Even with the purchase of Motorolla, Goolge will still have to pay Microsoft, but may reduce the amount paid to Apple. Right now Google is actually in the red for every phone sold, and is only making its money back from Apps sold and advertising on free apps. Samsung has the same problem with it Galaxy tablets because it has to pay both Microsoft and Apple for licenses. Don't let the media fool you into thinking Google is really on top; look at the profit and revenue margins of each of these companies and you will see Google if far to the rear.




RE: Microsoft vs Android
By fteoath64 on 10/20/2011 2:03:29 AM , Rating: 1
Where did you get "Apple gets over $35 per Android phone sold" ?. Apple has no such licensing policies!. If it did, it could not really sue SamSung for all those patent infringements !.

Ignorant as Balmer is, he still does not get the phone market. WP7 will die in 2 years when Apple wakes up and drop the price to match some of the Android handset competitors.

MS is a big patent troll over Android handset makers. And I hope the Justice Department does something about such commercial blackmail.


Like anyone cares...
By masamasa on 10/19/2011 4:31:43 PM , Rating: 2
...what Balmer says. Whoop dee doo.




This is the same Ballmer...
By wordsworm on 10/19/2011 10:51:55 PM , Rating: 2
... who predicted that the iPhone didn't stand a chance of penetrating the market.




Android is okay...
By ballist1x on 10/20/2011 6:44:59 AM , Rating: 2
Android is okay...But the experience isnt as positive as IOS. and i HATE apple and advise everyone against it.

I had a zte blade custom flashed, i used to have issues with GPS and also random freezes that required taking the battery out. It was a custom rom though so its to be expected, i guess...Now i have a galaxy s2 with custom rom and it does everything just fine.

But the apps arent as nice and rounded as the apple version...ESPN goals for example seems to have a lower resolution for Android than it does for the iphone version.

Other apps, such as Google skymap arent as nice or as polished as the apple equivalent.

It seems to me that Android needs to be brute forced by simply throwing the highest spec dual core CPU and GPU to make it run well. Thus lower spec android phones are annoying to use and dont give a full experience. And then even when you do have the hardware, the apps/software isnt quite as good as the iOS version...

I like my S2 though it gives me the freedom to do what i want with it, i just put up with the issues i outlined above.




By zero2dash on 10/20/2011 11:11:24 AM , Rating: 2
Your phones are getting their asses handed to them by Android phones. You being excited about Android phones would be like Ford or Chevy being excited for the new 2012 Camry or Accord.




By tecknurd on 10/24/2011 3:58:30 AM , Rating: 2
I have not tried neither iPhone, Android based phones, and Windows Mobile based phones, so I can not give anybody my bad grapes to anybody. What I can say about Android is it being Linux based will and does make it suck. I use Linux as a desktop OS and it is OK. For any mobile device like a smartphone, the OS have to be highly optimize for the device. Linux is not optimize for desktops, but it is optimize for servers. Google should really invest into another OS like Haiku OS which is a fork of BeOS. Since Linux is not optimize for desktops and Android is based on Linux, Android is going to have a hard time with performance when Apple and Microsoft includes more features that require a powerful processor. Though Google did not have a choice with Android when Android was first created because at that time Google did not own it.

As I see in videos that shows off Android in tablets, I agree with the statement that Android is for scientists and probably evil scientists when used with Arduino. Its touch responsiveness is slow compared to what I saw for iPhone. In the videos showing off the latest Windows Mobile OS, the tiles looks to me like an early Star Trek terminal and the animations are dorky. If the animations can not be disabled, I too will scream if I had it.

I would pick an iPhone for my smartphone because of Siri. Siri is a good selling point for iPhone.




Sigh
By Sazabi19 on 10/19/11, Rating: -1
RE: Sigh
By AMDftw on 10/19/2011 11:55:03 AM , Rating: 2
"You ... need to be a computer scientist to use... an Android phone" -- Steve Ballmer"

thank goodness he isn't one


RE: Sigh
By Omega215D on 10/19/2011 12:00:15 PM , Rating: 2
Steve Ballmer played by William Shatner.

I'm guessing DT will have a new quote to add to the bottom of the page.


RE: Sigh
By augiem on 10/20/2011 1:54:27 AM , Rating: 2
lol! BONES!


RE: Sigh
By cyberguyz on 10/20/2011 8:43:39 AM , Rating: 3
Funny part is that Apple used to say the same thing about Windows.

How many people here prefer a Mac over a Windows computer/laptop? What about the multitude of options you get on a Windows system over a Mac.

Sure the Apple Mac is pretty, glitzy & easy to use. But the Windows system is far more flexible and runs a much wider variety of hardware. Which OS sells more and is more popular? Apple's or Microsoft's? Which runs on a wider range of manufacturer's platforms? Which is cheaper to buy and use?

Now how may people here are not seeing this exact same analogy between iPhone (iOS) and Android? I sure do. I also use windows computers everywhere and really don't mind the odd crash or hang. I don't use a Mac because I am not interested in paying Apple's prices for Apple's limited line of hardware that locks me into doing everything as Apple says is must be done (or else).

There's been a lot of comments like "Well iOS is not as popular because it only runs on iPhones" as if that is a Good Thing. I don't see it that way.

Apple will always have it's niche of people that do not want to follow the mainstream. And that is cool. Apple has always marketed their products to that niche and I hope that doesn't change now that Jobs is no longer holding the reins. Apple and its products fills a need in the consumer technology world. It will never fulfill the needs of the majority mainstream market though because it is, and always has been a niche player.


"Can anyone tell me what MobileMe is supposed to do?... So why the f*** doesn't it do that?" -- Steve Jobs














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