backtop

Print E-mail del.icio.us 40 comment(s) - last by paulpod.. on May 21 at 6:23 PM
Microsoft volunteers to restrict consumers video recording options

For thousands of content consumers across the world, the digital video recorder (DVR) has become one of the core technologies that allow us to watch and use digital content like movies and TV shows in our homes the way we want.

Back in 2005, the FCC proposed that software and hardware makers be compelled to honor broadcast flags. These flags would have given broadcasters the ability to control how the content it broadcasts was used inside a consumer’s home. The flags would have allowed networks to outright block recording of their programs or make it where watchers had to view the commercials placed in programs.

Thankfully for the consumer, the FCC’s proposal was stuck down by the courts. The courts ruled that the FCC didn’t have the authority to tell electronics makers how to interpret signals they receive. However, the ability to follow the proposal was left up to the individual software and hardware makers.

Microsoft has been rather mum on the topic; however, the software giant and its Windows Vista Media Center application brought the topic to light again recently. Owners of Vista Media Centers were prevented from recording two NBC programs showing during Monday night prime time: American Gladiators and Medium.

NBC received many complaints over the broadcast flags for the two shows that were issued causing users of DVRs powered by Vista Media Center to be blocked from recording. Microsoft admitted that its Vista Media Center complied with the broadcast flags, something that was not made clear according to many users of the software.

Danny O’Brian of the Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) says, “Microsoft has put the requirements of broadcasters above what consumers want. They've imposed restrictions way beyond what the law requires. Customers need to know who Microsoft is listening to and how that affects their equipment. Right now, the only way customers know what Microsoft has agreed to is when the technology they've bought suddenly stops working. Microsoft needs to come clean and tell its customers what deals it has made."

NBC came back yesterday according to News.com and said that the flag on American Gladiators and Medium was issued inadvertently. A NBC spokesperson told News.com, “We made an inadvertent mistake. We're not aware of any other complaints, and we believe we have addressed the problem.”

DailyTech reported on the EFF criticism of the original FCC proposal for broadcast flags in early 2006.

Comments     Threshold


This article is over a month old, voting and posting comments is disabled
What were they thinking?
By PandaBear on 5/20/2008 3:05:40 PM , Rating: 5
I'm sure I wouldn't buy a Media Center now I learned about this. Off to MythTV or other software I go.




RE: What were they thinking?
By BladeVenom on 5/20/2008 3:23:23 PM , Rating: 3
SO they'll sell out all the customers who have paid them hundreds of billions of dollars, just so they can kiss Hollywood's ass.

Thanks Microsoft.


RE: What were they thinking?
By Mitch101 on 5/20/2008 3:35:49 PM , Rating: 5
I think this hurts NBC more than Microsoft for being dumb enough to do this. Miss a couple of episodes and you stop watching the series. NBC will lose viewers.

For example CBS kept airing Dexter at off its normal scheduled hours because of a sporting event. My DVR kept missing Dexter episodes because it wasn't on at its normal times. When we found out we missed 3 episodes because of this we stopped watching CBS. I could blame the DVR but its doing what it should. It was the broadcaster CBS that decided it didn't want me following its series. Which by the way is Excellent and I subscribed to Showtime for it. CBS lost me and Showtime gained me in this case. Same can happen to NBC.

If NBC wants to play DRM stupidity well there are plenty of other quality programming shows to watch on other networks.


RE: What were they thinking?
By mattclary on 5/20/2008 3:43:43 PM , Rating: 5
Isn't it funny that they can use a "flag" to announce the show can not be recorded, but they can't implement a "flag" to say "XXXXX show is starting now. Begin record in 5,4,3,2,1,mark".


RE: What were they thinking?
By djkrypplephite on 5/21/2008 5:14:32 AM , Rating: 2
You sir, are brilliant.


RE: What were they thinking?
By Martimus on 5/21/2008 9:41:27 AM , Rating: 2
They can, but why would they? They make their money on advertisement, and if that is being avoided they have no reason to broadcast at all. Why would they willingly make it easy to take away their source of income?


RE: What were they thinking?
By spluurfg on 5/21/2008 11:09:20 AM , Rating: 2
Well we're assuming that the broadcaster controls the 'flag', so they would just keep the flag active while the commercials which 'belonged' to that show were playing.


RE: What were they thinking?
By paulpod on 5/21/2008 5:19:36 PM , Rating: 2
Broadcasters also fought and won the fight NOT to put aspect ratio flags in the DTV standard. Now most viewers using converter boxes will almost never be seeing shows and commercials the way they were intended.

Nice going again, FCC.


RE: What were they thinking?
By mmntech on 5/20/2008 4:35:04 PM , Rating: 3
We're back to 1984 again. I'm glad I kept my VHS unless the broadcast flag somehow messes with that. The DRM game is getting tired fast. Sony Corp vs Universal back in 1984 basically ruled that you were legally allowed to tape any TV show for the purposes of time shifting. Then in comes the DMCA in 1998 which basically trumps that Supreme Court ruling. The way DRM works under the new law would be equivalent to banning cars because some people use them to speed. It's ridiculous. The law definitely needs to be replaced with something guaranteeing consumer rights since the current DMCA is getting abused left, right, and centre. I doubt anybody in congress has the balls to do that though. Here in Canada the law is still murky but we start going this way, there will be a few nasty letters to my MP. He owes me some favours. Long story.


RE: What were they thinking?
By FITCamaro on 5/20/2008 7:12:21 PM , Rating: 2
Just don't use windows media center in vista and the problem is solved.


RE: What were they thinking?
By Omega215D on 5/20/2008 5:06:24 PM , Rating: 4
CBS didn't lose anything. Since you've subscribed to Showtime CBS being the owner still gets the revenue.


RE: What were they thinking?
By eye smite on 5/21/2008 9:41:22 AM , Rating: 2
I know I'm probably gonna get slammed for this, but here's another perfect reason why people don't want Windows Vista.


RE: What were they thinking?
By RogueSpear on 5/20/2008 3:36:07 PM , Rating: 2
MythTV or, on the Windows side of things, MediaPortal are both better IMO anyway.


RE: What were they thinking?
By AstroCreep on 5/20/2008 7:28:00 PM , Rating: 2
Yep. As a matter of fact there are a few Linux distros that have MythTV incorporated; MythDora comes to mind.

But back to the matter at hand - it's not like someone won't find a way around the MS-Broadcast Flag.
I'm just as pissed about this as anyone else, but give it some time and there will be a crack.


RE: What were they thinking?
By AntiM on 5/20/2008 7:42:01 PM , Rating: 2
I'll tell you what they were thinking. They were thinking,... "I wonder how many pathetic idiots actually watch these lame shows?"
"Since these are our worst shows, let's try out that broadcast flag thing and see how it works, surely no one would complain about missing either of these shows".


RE: What were they thinking?
By Hiawa23 on 5/21/2008 9:00:40 AM , Rating: 2
I must be old fashioned cause I use a DVD recorder & sometimes VHS.


By omnicronx on 5/20/2008 3:42:10 PM , Rating: 4
Broadcast flags do not exist in the Analogue world nor was this what was activated by NBC for the shows in question. What NBC activated was CGMS-A.




By omnicronx on 5/20/2008 3:44:30 PM , Rating: 2
Also I would like to note broadcast flags (the other kind) was implemented in MCE 2005, and other consumer electronics as early as 2003.


By mattclary on 5/20/2008 3:45:39 PM , Rating: 2
Can you clarify? What does that mean?


By omnicronx on 5/20/2008 3:53:16 PM , Rating: 5
It means the situation people should stop worrying about it, it was nothing more than a mistake, it is not something implemented in Vista as it exists in MCE2005, and it looks like no channels are actually going to implement either form of protection.

As for clarification:

quote:
CGMS-A is what the majority of people seem to be confusing with the Broadcast Flag. They are completely different. They share nothing in common other then both being "flags." CGMS-A is for analog broadcasts. There is a problem with this and Media Center. This is not what stopped people from recording NBC last week. This is what that huge thread is about.

The Broadcast Flag is a digital flag in Other The Air ATSC broadcasts. It can't and doesn't apply to anything else. If you have problems recording via a CableCARD, it is not the Broadcast Flag. If you have trouble recording any kind of local analog channel, it is not the Broadcast Flag. If you have issues recording from cable or sat, it is not the Broadcast Flag.

One again, the Broadcast Flag applies ONLY to ATSC (digital local channels). It can't be on anything else. There has been One (1) instance of the Broadcast Flag appearing to be honored. One, that's it. Add to that, NBC fessed up and said they did something wrong. Vista does have the ability to support Broadcast Flags. If you read the Longhorn PPTs from three years ago it even says they were developing for it. Maybe it is just me because I work with this stuff everyday, but I was not at all shocked that something like this "could" happen. That said, there has been one instance reported that didn't even affect all users.

My understand of the Broadcast Flag is that it is not supposed to prevent recording, but instead basically be CopyOnce. Since Vista blocked it, and since NBC said "our bad," maybe we should stop and think a little bit here.

CGMS-A, Broadcast Flag, <insert protection here> means CableCARD and DIRECTV. Without support for CGMS-A, there is no CableCARD in Windows Vista. Without CGMS-A, there is no DIRECTV in the next release. Content protection is a must for a platform like this, but it must work correctly.

CGMS-A clearly doesn't, but it is not the Broadcast Flag that everyone is saying it is. My overall point is, this stuff is needed but it must respect your right to record and must be bug free. Please keep reporting this type of issues, but please know the difference in what you are complaining about. It makes a huge difference all around.


By ViRGE on 5/20/2008 8:26:56 PM , Rating: 3
I think the more important part of that is not what specific copy control mechanism is in use, but the bit about requirements for support. It is my understanding (and that blurb agrees with me) that all CableCard products are required to support the mechanism in question; if you don't support it your product won't be certified and issued credentials. That this is a CableCard issue would make sense given that the only people who were blocked were OCUR users, and not other digital TV users like HDHomeRun users.

What this is, is evidence that the FCC has given the cable industry (via CableLabs) too much control in how things are done. These kinds of copy control mechanisms aren't acceptable as they restrict what people can do with fairly recorded TV shows.


By Steve Guilliot on 5/20/2008 10:12:31 PM , Rating: 3
So you posted this at 3:53:16 PM, yet I see a bunch of blowhards that posted afterwards who apparently didn't get the message.

We'll consider the posters before 3:53:16 PM merely ignorant.

I think the urge to bash Microsoft frequently overwhelms the engagement of the brian, as many here have shown.


By therealnickdanger on 5/21/2008 8:13:26 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
I think the urge to bash Microsoft frequently overwhelms the engagement of the brian, as many here have shown.

Yes, Brian is having a rough day.

I had to laugh as well as this article (and subsequent posts) are so eagerly jumping on the anti-Vista, anti-Microsoft bandwagon. Copy this info from The Inq, did ya?

(just kidding, that's a low blow)


What's the big deal here?
By Spivonious on 5/20/2008 4:26:56 PM , Rating: 2
#1. Microsoft simply supports a method broadcasters have to limit recording. They are not at fault somehow for including this.

#2. NBC, even if it was a mistake this time, is perfectly within their rights to restrict recording of one their broadcasts.

Sure, some forewarning would have been nice, but if you're watching the trash that's on TV these days, does it really matter?




RE: What's the big deal here?
By itlnstln on 5/20/2008 5:17:28 PM , Rating: 1
Absolutely! They also have reserve the right to lose me, and many other people, as viewers of their network.

Oh, and number 2 is against the law per the Fair Use legislation begotten from the whole VCR thing in the 80's.


RE: What's the big deal here?
By Spivonious on 5/20/2008 6:45:04 PM , Rating: 3
Fair use "for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright."

Regardless of past precedent, taping American Gladiators for later viewing is not covered under fair use.

Do I agree with it? No, but the wonders of a free market leave me to make the choice you have and not watch NBC.


RE: What's the big deal here?
By bodar on 5/20/2008 8:24:01 PM , Rating: 4
Not true. A US Supreme Court ruling is a bit more than past precedent.

quote:
Universal City Studios v. Sony Corp., 464 U.S. 417 (1984) (the "Betamax Case")
The U.S. Supreme Court held that recording broadcast TV programs at home on VCRs (then called "VTRs") for later personal viewing at a time convenient to the user was a permissible "fair use". This has been described as "time-shifting" and analogized to "format-shifting". The Court also held that manufacturers whose equipment was used for copyright infringement would not be secondarily liable for copyright infringement, so long as the equipment was "merely capable of a substantial noninfringing use". Here, because the VCR could be used for a fair use, its manufacturer (Sony) was not contributorily liable for copyright infringement.


Source: http://fairusenetwork.org/reference/refs-cases.php...


So, what about XP Media Center?
By mattclary on 5/20/2008 3:40:52 PM , Rating: 2
Did it record the show?

Alllllll hail our new Vista Overlord!




By rykerabel on 5/21/2008 2:43:53 PM , Rating: 2
no, it had the exact same issue.


We still have a choice....
By Darkk on 5/21/2008 5:03:46 AM , Rating: 2
Microsoft isn't the only game in town with media center stuff. Look at MythTV in Linux. It has gotten alot easier now to install and use than it was two years ago.

I don't care if they say "ooops" and won't happen again in the future. The fact of the matter is that since it DID happen and CAN happen again in the future I don't WANT to be under their control. If they want to restrict their broadcasts then that's fine. It will hurt their advertising dollars when viewers stop watching their network due to annoyances.

Plenty of other shows to watch.

Darkk




RE: We still have a choice....
By paulpod on 5/21/2008 6:23:51 PM , Rating: 2
I have not researched this but can MythTV capture 1080i transport stream (and using which cards)? And can Linux graphics drivers display HD with full hardware acceleration? Simultaneously on two displays?

This is what I do with DVico Fusion cards in three PCs at home, some with remote secondary monitors. And I just received the new, dual-tuner, PCI-E model.

Assuming DVico software does not have broadcast flag recognition already programmed in, this solution will properly record shows for many years to come.

But this should be the default! These are the PUBLIC AIRWAVES!! When will people wake up to the fact that making broadcast TV hard to use will quickly kill off the only media that is mandated to serve the public interest. (Yeah, local and network reporting is cowardly now too, but at least it is not accompanied by hours of shows run by meglomaniacal propaganda artists.)


By Screwballl on 5/20/2008 3:08:34 PM , Rating: 3
Another reason why MS should be avoided unless absolutely necessary.
there seems to be some ties here....
MS, MSNBC, NBC... go figure.

go with the free and open source choices such as MythTV




By RamarC on 5/20/2008 5:17:44 PM , Rating: 3
what they really need is flag that would cause the recorder ask "do you really want to waste space on this crap?"




That's why I use SageTV
By archcommus on 5/20/2008 3:06:49 PM , Rating: 2
Subject says it all.




Want to address the problem?
By amanojaku on 5/20/2008 3:30:43 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
NBC came back yesterday according to News.com and said that the flag on American Gladiators and Medium was issued inadvertently. A NBC spokesperson told News.com, “We made an inadvertent mistake. We're not aware of any other complaints, and we believe we have addressed the problem.”


Maybe my eyes are faulty, but I don't see where NBC addressed the problem. Make the shows available for free download. Since bandwidth isn't free a nominal fee would be OK, too. Better yet, repeat the show without the flags. That will prove that NBC doesn't mind consumers recording with DVRs.




Is this the same as 5C?
By AlexWade on 5/20/2008 4:13:56 PM , Rating: 2
I have several programs recorded on my cable HD DVR and, when possible, use the FCC mandated FireWire port to transfer them off. I was able to take premium movies off at one time, but now I can't. I can still take off programs from local channels. The problem is 5C. So is this the same as 5C or yet another one of the accursed DRM?




YAHOO!
By TimberJon on 5/20/2008 5:57:54 PM , Rating: 2
And we are not getting nervous about M$ acquiring Yahoo! property?

Everyone should be nervous.




Not the first time...
By CZroe on 5/21/2008 2:30:53 AM , Rating: 2
I stopped using my MCE machine last year after it "inadvertantly" flagged many South Park episodes.

Also, some items would record but would not allow me to sync with my Portable Media Center due to broadcast flags.




"Young lady, in this house we obey the laws of thermodynamics!" -- Homer Simpson











botimage
Copyright 2009 DailyTech LLC. - RSS Feed | Advertise | About Us | Ethics | FAQ | Terms, Conditions & Privacy Information | Kristopher Kubicki