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Analysts are now lowering their future sales forecasts

As iOS and Android-powered tablets continue to be trailblazers in the market, Microsoft's Surface is having a hard time finding its place -- and it shows in analyst expectations.

Bloomberg source anonymously revealed that Microsoft has sold 1.5 million Surface tablets to date. More specifically, the company has sold a little over a million Surface with Windows RT tablets (features the Windows RT version of Windows 8 specifically for ARM processors) and about 400,000 Surface with Windows Pro tablets (features the full version of Windows 8 and an Intel Core i5 processor). 

These numbers are not exactly what analysts expected this late in the game. Brent Thill, an analyst at UBS AG, had previously predicted that Microsoft would sell 2 million Surface RT tablets in just the December quarter.

Now, analysts are lowering Surface shipment estimates for the current quarter and beyond. Brendan Barnicle, an analyst at Pacific Crest Securities, lowered his Surface sales projections from 1.4 million to 600,000 for the current quarter.

Barnicle also reduced his Surface sales estimate from 7 million to 5 million for fiscal 2014. Rick Sherlund, an analyst at Nomura Holdings Inc., decreased his estimate for the PCs and Windows-based tablet market from a growth of 5 percent to a decline of 1 percent.


Why is the Surface such a flop so far? Reports cite consumer unfamiliarity with the Windows 8 OS, Surface's fail at successfully packaging the power of a PC combined with the ease-of-use of a tablet, and fewer apps as some reasons. A high price point would be a fair reason as well (the Surface RT is $499 for 32GB and $599 for 64GB while the Surface Pro is $899 for 64GB and $999 for 128GB).

Currently, the Windows Store has a little over 47,000 apps. Apple's App Store has over 300,000 apps for the iPad. In the quarter ended December 2012, Apple sold 22.9 million iPads and it accounted for 51 percent of the tablet market.

However, Android tablets are expected to give the iPad a run for its money this year. According to IDC, iPad shipments are expected to make up 46 percent of the tablet market for 2013, down from that 51 percent in 2012. Android-powered tablets are expected to increase their market share to 49 percent in 2013, up from 42 percent in 2012.

Back in December, Boston-based brokerage firm Detwiler Fenton said that Surface's main problem was distribution. Customers could only buy the Surface with Windows RT tablet at Microsoft Stores, and the issue with that is there's only 31 of them, with another 34 smaller Microsoft kiosks around the U.S. The lack of exposure at places like Best Buy and Staples was hurting the tablet after its Oct. 26 release.

This was resolved later in December, when Microsoft started allowing third-party retailers to sell the Surface -- near the end of that quarter.

Source: Bloomberg



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But seriously...
By Motoman on 3/15/2013 11:09:43 AM , Rating: 3
http://www.amazon.com/Coby-Kyros-10-1-Inch-Android...

http://www.amazon.com/Synthetic-Leather-Keyboard-S...

$163 for a 10.1" Android tablet and a keyboard/folder case. Boom - instant "Surface" tablet, that does everything that 99.99999% of all people want/need to do with a tablet, for nearly $340 less. You could buy 3 such Android tablets and keyboard folders and still have money left over for lunch compared to a $500 Surface.

Issues with the OS aside, that's why people aren't falling over each other to buy the Surface. Why would you?




RE: But seriously...
By MadMan007 on 3/15/2013 11:22:00 AM , Rating: 2
There have been cheap tablets for a long time now, and I don't mean cheap just in price, that's certainly one of them. And yet other tablets still continued to sell well so it's not just about price.


RE: But seriously...
By Da W on 3/19/2013 2:14:18 PM , Rating: 2
400000 Surface Pro in 1 month since in on market, not bad for a 999$ tablet actually!
Of course cheap sells. There are many more McDonald's dollar value burgers sold in the world than expensive 5 services meals at a 200$ restaurant.

Where are the Acer/Asus/Samsung tablet sales numbers? We should combine all Clovertrail/corei3/cCorei5 with Windows 8 pro sales. Game is still Young, i know many more people without a tablet than people with a tablet.
Where are the android full numbers? not just 42% market share crap.
Written from my surface pro attached to my Bluetooth 5500MX revolution combo and LG 27'' screen. Used as a full office computer.


RE: But seriously...
By Labotomizer on 3/15/2013 11:31:41 AM , Rating: 2
I'm buying a Surface Pro with my 1st quarter bonus. While the RT didn't seem that interesting, there really is no comparing the Pro to other tablets on the market. It's a far more capable device and, with RDP back to my home workstation, is fully capable of replacing my mobile workstation. That's pretty impressive if you ask me.


RE: But seriously...
By Motoman on 3/15/2013 11:33:52 AM , Rating: 5
You realize that close to no one, when looking at the market as a whole, has any idea what RDP is, right?

As for being a "more capable" device...the vast majority of tablet users use their tablets to surf the web, troll Facebook, and play Angry Birds. It wouldn't matter what else the thing is capable of, because it's irrelevant.


RE: But seriously...
By synapse46 on 3/15/2013 11:35:22 AM , Rating: 2
I was going to suggest get the RT and use VNC. Assuming the windows app store has a VNC app.


RE: But seriously...
By Motoman on 3/15/2013 11:47:01 AM , Rating: 3
RE: But seriously...
By eek2121 on 3/15/2013 11:53:46 AM , Rating: 2
Yep, i was going to suggest pocketcloud pro for Windows RDP connections. I have it and it works great. There are plenty of RDP and VNC apps out there. I find the Windows 8 devices to be useless without most the apps that I use being available. Things such as spotify don't have native Windows 8/Windows RT support.


RE: But seriously...
By Nortel on 3/15/13, Rating: 0
RE: But seriously...
By AstroGuardian on 3/15/2013 7:28:43 PM , Rating: 4
They didn't change everything, they just added one more touch friendly desktop (Metro).

Have you even seen Windows 8?


RE: But seriously...
By BSMonitor on 3/15/2013 2:05:38 PM , Rating: 1
Free in this case = JUNK.. AKA Android's MO


RE: But seriously...
By Motoman on 3/15/2013 2:54:12 PM , Rating: 3
Um, no...actually Teamviewer is pretty awesome. And it's integrated into lots of other applications now as an OEMd remote access app.

Not junk at all...either in terms of Android, or in terms of Teamviewer.


RE: But seriously...
By Mint on 3/15/2013 9:47:21 PM , Rating: 2
RDP with an inductive stylus is amazing. You get much better accuracy and visibility than with a finger (or cap stylus), and can right-click using the button.

If you want a substitute for the Surface Pro, it'll have to be a Note 10.1/8.0 or one of the better Clovertrail tablets, and there will be some sacrifices.


RE: But seriously...
By dew111 on 3/15/2013 1:20:41 PM , Rating: 2
Windows RT has RDP, I've used it myself. It works pretty well.


RE: But seriously...
By dgingerich on 3/15/2013 11:47:55 AM , Rating: 4
I recently got a Dell XPS 10. (Far more capable WinRT machine than Microsoft's.) I use it for a lot more than that, so far. I use it at work for remote access to the KVMs in my racks, email, retrieving documented data, (it really has too small of a keyboard to edit documents on any regular basis) call up server reports and other remote administration, remote desktop to servers, Angry Birds, reading ebooks on Kindle and Nook apps, and finally surfing the web.

The dual core Qualcomm chip in the Dell is a far better choice than MS's choice of a Tegra 3. Tablets are mostly dealing with simple, single threaded apps, and a dual core with faster single threaded performance is far better than relying on multithreaded performance.

Honestly, MS made a few missteps with the Surface, but the OS isn't one of them.


RE: But seriously...
By Motoman on 3/15/2013 12:26:18 PM , Rating: 2
...I'm sure you do. And what percentage of the general user base do you think you represent?

People on DT have to remember that they're the 1%ers...or less.

To envision the *actual* market for such devices, you have to remember these are the people who can't manage to program the clock on a VCR. Not that anyone remembers what a VCR is anymore.

Imagine what your grandma would do with a tablet. That's what the market is.


RE: But seriously...
By BSMonitor on 3/15/2013 2:11:35 PM , Rating: 2
Not really sure what your point is in this thread. MS stock price isn't on the line when talking about Surface... They sold fewer than Android or iOS tablets...

And? They are not going to stop building them. And they will continue to put out the only tablet with legacy x86 support, and that alone makes it worth more to a lot of people than anything "free" from Google.

RT is a kneejerk reaction to pressure Intel to get Atom where it needs to be.. The ONLY tablet I would consider for doing anything useful is a Win 8 tablet with Atom or Core i7..


RE: But seriously...
By Motoman on 3/15/2013 2:55:58 PM , Rating: 2
The obvious point that you can't see is that Surface is trailing sales expectations by a wide margin.

I'm offering one explanation for it...the VAST majority of tablet users can do everything they want, and more, for 1/3 the cost of a Surface.

Period.

Not hard to see the point I'm making.


RE: But seriously...
By Mint on 3/15/2013 10:31:01 PM , Rating: 3
The point everyone else is making is that these trailing sales really don't matter. MS is in it for the long haul.

x86 tablets are the future.


RE: But seriously...
By nikon133 on 3/17/2013 11:13:07 PM , Rating: 2
I'm of the same sentiments, especially with Clover Trail tablets.

Here in NZ, CT Windows Pro tablets are not much more expensive than Androids, and offer best of both worlds - size, weight, battery life of iPad or Android, with extra functionality of PC.

But considering how much time took for Android tablets to start selling, while competing only with iPads, it is easy to predict that it will be even harder for Windows tablets - they compete with both iPads and Androids, after all.

So I'm not really discouraged with slow WinTab sales; in fact, I'd really be surprised if they were amazingly good. They have great uphill to overcome, but I believe they will get there. Only thing is, I think their entry point will be through enterprise, rather than consumer market. Businesses will start taking them in for obvious advantages, and that, in return, will give people chance to get firsthand experience with WinTabs and chance to like them, thus selecting them later on for their homes as well.


RE: But seriously...
By dgingerich on 3/18/2013 5:13:26 PM , Rating: 2
Actually, what I was saying is that I found much more capability and use out of this tablet than I originally anticipated. In addition, WinRT is far more corporate security capable than either iPads or Android tablets. I'm betting if more people were to actually try it, they'd find more use than they would have guessed, and they'd be happier than they would be with other tablets, especially in corporate environments. WinRT is far more advanced and capable than the other tablets out there, and it is worth the price.

Now, if the stupid critics who have no idea what they're talking about because they haven't actually used Win8 or WinRT would just shut up, people would likely try these WinRT tablets more often and tablets in general would catch on.


RE: But seriously...
By Griffinhart on 3/15/2013 1:28:33 PM , Rating: 3
And the target of the Surface Pro isn't a part of this "Vast Majority" you mention. It's for people like me that want to carry a single device to replace a consumer tablet and a windows laptop. The Surface Pro fits the bill perfectly. It's extremely portable, extremely powerful, lets me run all the actual windows Apps I need, use it as a work machine, and I can still to tablety things with it.

Just because the "Vast Majority" doesn't need it, doesn't make it an undesirable device.


RE: But seriously...
By johnnycanadian on 3/15/2013 1:33:28 PM , Rating: 2
You won't regret it! I picked a 64GB version up about a month ago; it really lets Windows 8 Pro shine. LOVE the pressure-sensitive stylus (with Autodesk Sketchbook Pro) and aside from a few applications (FileMaker Pro 12 doesn't activate the onscreen keyboard automatically in a text field for some reason), everything works well and FAST!

Really impressed with it -- I use it more than my Sammy Chronos 7 17" laptop at this point. I gotta recommend you go with the 128GB version, though. Using a 64GB SD as secondary storage kind of takes away from the experience; wish I would have waited until 128GB units were readily available.


RE: But seriously...
By nafhan on 3/15/2013 2:11:01 PM , Rating: 1
Uhm, RDP is a terrible use case for explaining why you need Surface Pro! If you need to RDP back to your workstation to do stuff, then an Android tablet + workstation would work just as well.

The point of Surface Pro is that it's your primary computer, and you should not need another workstation - at all.


RE: But seriously...
By Labotomizer on 3/15/2013 3:47:54 PM , Rating: 2
I'm a Systems Engineer with a high requirement for virtualization. My current "laptop" is a 17" Elitebook mobile workstation with 32GB of memory running VMware Workstation with numerous VMs for various activities, including labs, demos and proof of concepts. The Surface Pro can replace everything about my laptop except for that. Fortunately my home workstation can do all of that, and even better than, my laptop can currently.

So you're right, RDP is a poor explanation since I didn't go into detail. But since I can do presentations, get good battery life, and dock it at the office and use it as my full time work system it's a perfect device. For me.

No other tablet can do that the way the Surface Pro can. I'm not saying that the iPad and Android devices don't meet a lot of people's needs, I get that they do. They don't meet mine however. And I've tried.


RE: But seriously...
By nafhan on 3/18/2013 4:10:18 PM , Rating: 2
So, it sounds like you are using it as your primary computer and doing a lot of Windows specific stuff locally. That's pretty much the ideal situation for a Surface Pro (if size/portability is important).

I also agree that "laptop" should be in quotes regarding your workstation. :) In my situation, I'm able to run that kind of thing remotely, and I prefer to keep it that way!


RE: But seriously...
By Taft12 on 3/19/2013 10:57:14 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
I'm a Systems Engineer with a high requirement for virtualization.


If this is the requirement to have a use-case for the Surface Pro, it's no surprise that there have only been 400K sold.


RE: But seriously...
By kleinma on 3/15/2013 5:48:22 PM , Rating: 2
The point of the surface pro is not that it is your primary computer. That is like saying if you own a laptop you should not own a desktop because the laptop should be your primary computer.

I am a tech guy, but I have a desktop at home, a desktop at my office, and the surface pro as my laptop (which replaced a several year old actual laptop). I can RDP around to and from wherever I need to.


RE: But seriously...
By Luticus on 3/18/2013 8:37:49 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
The point of Surface Pro is that it's your primary computer, and you should not need another workstation - at all.


LIKE HELL! No tablet in todays world could EVER replace my main workstation. A tablet is a bonus machine, that is all. That said, I'd take an x86 windows 8 tablet over any other platform on the market... why, because I view them as Laptops without keyboards. The are low end PC's with touch screens instead of keyboards. They are NOT angry birds machines like some people would like. I know I don't represent the vast majority of users out there but I do represent a sizable market. You say it's 1% I say it's more like 10 - 20%. Otherwise companies that build high end PCs and computer components wouldn't exist. They would only build for the low to mid range systems. I find it a bit sad that people don't see high end tablets as viable because the rest of the world just wants to shoot pigs with birds and touch porn on the Internet with their finger. Tablets are not giant phones, they're computers. This is NOT a post PC world.


RE: But seriously...
By robinthakur on 3/15/2013 2:22:19 PM , Rating: 2
We got two HP win 8 pro devices (i use the term pro loosely, they are Intel atoms!) to try out at work this week and user feedback was overwhelmingly negative so we won't be buying them to replace our hundreds of iPads. On full screen apps, the keyboard works quite well. On desktop apps? It takes up half the screen and you can't see the text box you are typing into (eg google). Other than office integration, this doesn't seem to add much. A shame, as people were initially quite enthusiastic at the unboxing, and being able to have a USB connection dongle is quite nice, although it feels suitably retro after having devices for so long that don't need them. We requested surface pros but MS couldn't find anywhere to supply them to us in the UK within 2 days.


RE: But seriously...
By Reclaimer77 on 3/15/2013 5:16:42 PM , Rating: 2
I have a hard time looking at the Surface Pro as a "tablet" though. It's basically a touch Ultrabook/slate PC in a really thick tablet form factor kinda sorta not really mutant thing.

Which is good. MS should keep distancing it from "tablets" because, well, you don't see any other thousand dollar tablets out there do you?


RE: But seriously...
By fteoath64 on 3/18/2013 6:39:01 AM , Rating: 2
There are plenty of RDP like solutions for iPad and my mini can do that with its 320gm weight and 10 hours of battery for most tasks even light video editing, so why go PRO and paying 3X the money ?.

The level of compromises for each user comes in many different angles and other could wrestle out nice software tools to make things a lot easier than a traditional notebook. So for many it becomes tablet and Desktop only solution and the notebook is left to dry (obsoleted).


RE: But seriously...
By synapse46 on 3/15/2013 11:34:15 AM , Rating: 2
I've been looking at getting $300 Asus tablet with the tegra3 chipset, I figure that is about the best tablet for the $$ but I have yet to be so inclined to make the purchase.

I played around with a surface, and unless you had a specific business program that would require the pro version, I couldn't see they value. The RT has some additional features that are nice, but for the average user it is too expensive and too bulky, IMO. Also, the surface keyboard that is like a "glorified microwave keypad" seems useless to me. I have also seen another surface with a more netbook style chiklet keyboard that would probably be more useful.


RE: But seriously...
By dgingerich on 3/15/2013 11:58:28 AM , Rating: 2
I HIGHLY recommend the Dell XPS 10 instead. It uses a Qualcomm dual core Snapdragon S4, which is much faster on single threaded apps, which is mostly what happens on tablets. Plus, the keyboard dock has an extra battery, giving extended battery life.

I use it in tablet mode when playing Angry Birds or reading Kindle books, but switch to netbook mode (docked) when using it at work for documents, email, and server remote consoles.


RE: But seriously...
By jeepga on 3/15/2013 1:38:13 PM , Rating: 2
More than 0.00001% of the population is interested in content creation. So your number is just hyperbole. But, the point is otherwise valid. That pretty much applies to your later comment about RDP.

Here are my thoughts. I was ready to buy the Surface Pro even at $1,000. But that was only true after using it. I still really want one. I'm annoyed with the cost of the type cover. But, what pushed me away was the battery. I didn't expect a great battery with all of that power. But, not that piss poor. And the straw was that the battery cannot be replaced.


RE: But seriously...
By kleinma on 3/15/2013 5:43:31 PM , Rating: 2
Surface Pro is an awesome device. It is expensive, but it is an ultrabook that doubles as a tablet, not a tablet that doubles as a pseudo half baked laptop.

The touch cover is crap, the type cover is required if you want to do any real typing on it. The combination of mouse/keyboard/touch is awesome to have.

It is only going to appeal to those who need to do real windows work, not to those just looking for a tablet to watch HBO GO and netflix on.


RE: But seriously...
By lawrance on 3/17/2013 11:14:25 AM , Rating: 2
If you need a tactical keyboard, a mouse or trackpad, then why buy one of these at all? Why not just buy a real laptop that has considerably more power? I really think MS is missing the point of tablets. Thin, light, inexpensive but great for consuming content on the road or on the couch. Dedicated professional apps make tablets great for business use out in the field too.


RE: But seriously...
By KaiTech on 3/16/2013 5:20:46 PM , Rating: 2
Well I wonder what they are thinking, I live in Luxemburg, in the heart of Europe, and we only got Surface RT like 2 Weeks ago into the retail stores. I asked the guys in the stores when they expected to get Surface Pro, and they had no clue when it would be available.

Availability is a very big issue with all Win8 products, I really don't get it.
They hyped up the launches of Win8 Tablets and Phones and they are available no where! That's a big part of the problem!

Another example is the Nokia Lumia 920, when was that announced? ...almost 6months ago?! ...and we still don't have it available anywhere?!

Next example would be the Asus Transformer Book (Win8 version), available no-where, eaven though it's been announced a very long time ago....

No wonder sales don't meet expectations with those issues ... I mean I know lots of people that would like to get their hands on those devices... but not possible!


No market/Late to market
By Ammohunt on 3/15/2013 11:11:21 AM , Rating: 3
A bunch of enthusiast windows nerds is not a large enough market for a Microsoft tablet. Besides the fact that it doesn't do a single thing better than existing tablets that have been around for the last 3-4 years its just another tablet on the heap...HP realized this early with their tablets..they were too late.




RE: No market/Late to market
By Labotomizer on 3/15/2013 11:29:29 AM , Rating: 2
The Surface Pro can do a whole lot more than any other tablet out there. Just sayin...


RE: No market/Late to market
By Spuke on 3/15/2013 11:58:36 AM , Rating: 2
X2 There is a CLEAR difference between the Surface Pro and every other tablet out there. You guys have to make the distinction on which Surface you're referring to,


RE: No market/Late to market
By Solandri on 3/15/2013 4:04:00 PM , Rating: 2
There's a clear difference between the Surface Pro and the ARM tablets. But the difference between other Intel+Win7/8 slate tablets is a lot fuzzier. My sister was in the market for a Surface Pro, but was really turned off by the lack of repairability. Sealing the entire thing with glue is semi-acceptable on a $200-$400 appliance tablet. Not so much on a $1000 full-blown PC which happens to be in the shape of a tablet. Once the warranty is up, you basically have to think of it as being disposable.


RE: No market/Late to market
By UpSpin on 3/15/2013 12:48:32 PM , Rating: 2
I own such a Windows tablet (convertible) since several years (btw. Surface Pro tablets (slate like) aren't anything new (Fujitsu Stylistic, Motion Computing, ...) and no one bought them in the past)
And you know what? Windows is crap as a tablet OS.

Yes, you can run much more powerful programs on a x86 system running Windows 7 or 8, that was my motivation to buy the tablet PC, so I could use it as both a notebook and as a tablet. I had a use for it and it was worth the money. ($2500)

However, the software 'Windows' is not touch optimized. You can only use it with a pen.
No, Metro UI isn't the solution, because you buy the Surface Pro to run the powerful programs, which don't have a Metro UI!!! So you're stuck with the Windows 7 style user interface which is crap on a tablet PC. Office is nearly impossible to use on a tablet. Sketchbook, Photoshop, both great programs for a pen based tablet, but the majority of people does not own such expensive programs. OneNote is full of bugs and not suited for heavy note taking. You have to buy further expensive rare third party programs to make a good use of it. But forget finger input, it won't make fun.

So Windows and the majority of its programs don't work on a tablet PC. Additionally is a Windows tablet expensive, heavy, noisy, hot, short battery life, slow, ...

So stop talking bullshirt how much better Surface Pro is compared to any other tablet. It's worse, much worse, because the OS, Intel hardware, and programs aren't optimized for a use as a tablet.

Android and iOS tablets with slightly less powerful programs are thousand times better than Surface Pro.

It's a niche product, just as all the previous Windows tablet PCs were, Microsoft hasn't changed anything fundamental with Win 8 and Surface Pro which could change this.


RE: No market/Late to market
By Nortel on 3/15/2013 2:31:53 PM , Rating: 2
I could not agree more. This concept has been around for ages. All that's changed is the detachable keyboard, multitouch screen and Windows 8. Reviewers were given these in droves with both keyboard options for free and still couldn't produce brimming reviews.

With the success of Android and iOS tablets it shows people have gotten past the reliance of a "real computer" to do the same quality of work. Imho, if you do not have an express need for the wacom stylus it quickly becomes cumbersome to use. Using it for all interaction demonstrates how the designers have failed at creating a proper tablet device.


RE: No market/Late to market
By 91TTZ on 3/15/2013 1:05:20 PM , Rating: 2
Yeah, but they marketed it to a really niche audience. Sales will be very low.

Keep in mind that you can buy a laptop that is faster than the Surface Pro for about $400. When Microsoft wants to show the Surface being productive they show it with an add-on keyboard. If they want to make it really productive they'll show it with a mouse, too. Now you have a laptop that performs about as well as a $400 laptop except it costs over $1000.

A customer can get a $400 laptop and 2 $300 Android tablets for that price and have multiple devices for the whole family that cater to different needs.

There's reasons that "all-in-one" contraptions never seem to catch on. You can get an Amphibicar that acts as a car and a boat. You can get a flying car that acts as a car and a plane. Both of these things are more expensive than the vehicles they're intended to replace and don't do the functions as well.


Metro has failed on all fronts.
By 91TTZ on 3/15/2013 11:57:22 AM , Rating: 1
Microsoft's Metro initiative has failed on all fronts. Early implementations of it were the interfaces for the Zune and the Windows phone. Both were failures. While those products failed, Microsoft decided to go all-in and make a big push for Metro. They decided to design their entire ecosystem around the Metro interface.

Windows 8 implements it all throughout, and Windows 8 is tanking. Microsoft decided to renew their push for the Windows Phone 8 and that is tanking as well. Surface implements it and that's dead in the water as well.

While Microsoft is making it sound like they're fully behind their decision and that their products are doing well, behind the scenes that company must be in crisis mode. The main profitability that they currently have is from people buying their older products. All the recent research and design resulted in products that people simply don't want. Their push for the future is leading nowhere, with no help in sight.

They claimed that Metro is Microsoft's future but I can't imagine a company holding onto a "future" that their customers are rejecting. It's as if they noticed the recent popularity of mobile devices and daftly extrapolated the direction of computing based on that rather than thinking about things analytically and calculating where things would settle based on fundamentals of usability and economics (for instance, why would a user want to pay more to clumsily touch the screen of a desktop PC when it's cheaper, more accurate, and less strain on the shoulders to rest your arms on the table and move a mouse?)

I wouldn't be surprised if newer versions of Windows re-implement the start button and allow the user to choose between PC mode and tablet mode. Some features of Metro such as the pretty fonts and colors may stick around but the changes in user interface philosophy will likely be abandoned.




RE: Metro has failed on all fronts.
By MadMan007 on 3/15/13, Rating: -1
RE: Metro has failed on all fronts.
By 91TTZ on 3/15/2013 1:25:29 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
Start Menu? Not happening, people need to get over it. The Start Screen is superior to the Start Menu.


It's funny seeing posts by Microsoft and those who defend Microsoft's actions. They have a weird combination of being clueless and being in denial. It's almost as if they can sort of see the reason that people don't want their new products, but they can't accept it and deny it's happening.

Look- Windows 8, Windows Phone, and Surface are FAILURES. People do not want them. People saw what Windows 7 was about and people wanted it. People see what Windows 8 is about and DO NOT want it.

You can lie to yourself all day long but that's not going to help Microsoft's bottom line. The sooner you and Microsoft learn to accept reality the sooner you'll see the reason for the failure.

Hint for the clueless- It's your job to give customers what they want. It's not your job to tell customers what they should be wanting. You can advertize to try to generate demand, but if customers see your ads and your products and reject them then you're doing something wrong.

quote:
Hmm, yeah, they should have included something like a DESKTOP live tile on the Start Screen...oh wait, they did.


Customers see your desktop live tile and soundly reject it. They want a desktop-oriented operating system, not a mobile-oriented operating system with a vestigial desktop.


RE: Metro has failed on all fronts.
By datdamonfoo on 3/15/2013 5:36:40 PM , Rating: 2
How is the desktop vestigial? What can't you do on the Windows 8 desktop that you can on Windows 7?


RE: Metro has failed on all fronts.
By 91TTZ on 3/15/2013 6:14:27 PM , Rating: 1
Since Windows 8 is based on Vista/Windows 7 code you're going to have the desktop there, but it's been de-emphasized in Windows 8. Also, other ways of doing things have been changed to more difficult ways. There's just no reason for it.


RE: Metro has failed on all fronts.
By Digimonkey on 3/15/2013 10:51:57 PM , Rating: 2
Nothing has been changed to be more difficult, people like to say this but can never back up these claims. Then when they try they give it away that they really haven't worked with Windows 8 much or at all.

I do believe the App portion of windows 8 is complete trash, but I like the new start screen.


RE: Metro has failed on all fronts.
By FlyTexas on 3/18/2013 2:35:55 AM , Rating: 2
I have been running Windows 8 on two different computers since launch.

Sorry, it sucks, it really does. We have 11 computers running in the office and put Windows 8 on two of them to try it out and get to know it.

It simply is not an improvement over Windows 7. In fact, those 2 computers spend all their time in "desktop" mode and it is just annoying when anything draws Metro back in.

Using applications pinned to the taskbar, we avoid Metro whenever possible.

About 2 weeks ago we wiped 1 of the 2 Windows 8 machines and put Windows 7 back on it, it just pissed everyone off too much.

The biggest issue? Windows 8 brings nothing to the table. It doesn't solve any problems, it doesn't help get work done faster. It is completely pointless on a desktop, we have yet to find a single reason to upgrade any desktop computer from Windows 7 to Windows 8.


By Digimonkey on 3/18/2013 10:10:40 AM , Rating: 2
Yes, using metro apps suck, I don't recommend using them unless you have a tablet. I spend all of my time in the desktop too unless I need to launch something or do a search then I use the new UI screen, it's a much improved start menu.

As far as not bringing anything else to the table well...I guess nothing critical, but Windows 8 offers improvements in many areas. The new Windows Explorer alone is something I wouldn't want to give up, along with a better and more complete task manager, not to forget the better performance in general over Windows 7. Also for power users everything is quicker to get to (less clicks away).

That said I wouldn't suggest paying full price for Windows 8 if you already have 7. It was worth the $40 upgrade price I payed though and when getting a new computer there is no reason to shy away from Windows 8 like there was with Windows Vista.


By Griffinhart on 3/15/2013 1:38:13 PM , Rating: 2
Exactly how is the Start Screen superior to the Start Menu?


By Reclaimer77 on 3/15/2013 5:41:58 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
Start Menu? Not happening, people need to get over it. The Start Screen is superior to the Start Menu.


Right which is why the highest downloaded thing on the planet for Windows 8 are mods that bring it back...

quote:
People, and oddly a lot of the most vocal claim to be tech savvy, just can't adapt their decades-old way of doing things even when the new way is more efficient.


Couldn't be more wrong.

http://www.nngroup.com/articles/windows-8-disappoi...

This is a pretty "tech savy" group which specializes in things like this. Usability and accessibility in software/hardware. For example Amazon came to them when they wanted to identify and correct the problems in the first Kindle Fire going forward with the HD.

They give Windows 8 a very low score. It is NOT more efficient or user friendly for the desktop PC.


What a surprise! (NOT!)
By jnemesh on 3/15/2013 3:06:52 PM , Rating: 2
Gee, who would have thought that you get miserable sales when you stop listening to what your customers want and try to push a crappy OS on a substandard piece of hardware (both RT and "Pro" models...don't argue on this, call me back when the damn battery can last a full work day!)

"It's not Metro" is a total failure in the eyes of most consumers. The lack of a "Start" button is a failure. The closed ecosystem is a failure. The battery life is a failure. The list goes on and on people.

What IS surprising is that Microsoft insists on continuing to push these products instead of responding to the problems that people are telling them! If they LISTENED to the customer, they would ditch the "Metro" interface and give the customers what they want...a FAMILIAR UI that does what they expect it to do, with menus that are placed where they are used to them. No hidden "charms", no full screen "Metro" apps (it's WINDOWS, remember? How the hell are you going to sell a program called WINDOWS that doesnt allow programs to RUN IN A WINDOW??!???!)

It doesn't matter WHY people don't like it...there is no "why", there is only nerd rage!




RE: What a surprise! (NOT!)
By datdamonfoo on 3/15/2013 5:38:00 PM , Rating: 2
Surface RT has the same battery life as the iPad. And Windows 8 is not a closed ecosystem.
I think this has more to do with people not having used the product and listening to the fools who happen to be the most vocal.


RE: What a surprise! (NOT!)
By 91TTZ on 3/15/2013 6:26:06 PM , Rating: 2
People have used the product and made the educated decision not to buy it. People try things out for themselves and make their own decisions. Most people simply don't like Metro. They don't want Microsoft phones, they don't want Microsoft Tablets, and they don't want Windows 8.


RE: What a surprise! (NOT!)
By FlyTexas on 3/18/2013 2:32:42 AM , Rating: 2
Yes, Surface RT (we own one) does last all day on battery, but there just isn't enough to do with it on battery.

The keyboard and Office is why we purchased it, but truthfully we find that most of the time we're using it, it is on a desk plugged in, making the battery issue moot.

We also own an iPad, that gets used everywhere else. Surface is not as easy to use as the iPad, the iPad got the size right at 4:3 rather than the 16:9 of Surface.


Metro UI is good
By corduroygt on 3/15/2013 2:16:29 PM , Rating: 2
It's a really good UI for touch devices, phones and tablets. However, by forcing it upon Windows 8 users, MS made people hate it.
A proper cloud is when you have separate apps for Tablet/Phone and PC but they share the same data and also hopefully buying one version gives you all other versions.




Bad Retail Showing
By motqalden on 3/15/2013 7:42:00 PM , Rating: 2
I was really exited about the idea of surface pro. I went into my local Best Buy because that is the only place in my area where I could actually get hands on time with it, and it was very hard to find. Their is a big fancy area where they sell the Ipads and other tablets, and they stuck the poor lonely surface pro off in a corner by itself.
I finally had to ask someone who worked there where it was >.<
Problem was the damn thing wasn't even setup at all. No office installed, no apps installed NOTHING. I opened up Internet explorer and tried loading up a couple of sites. The touch screen interface is very poor compared to my android phone, and I couldn' for the life of me figure out how to use the onscreen keyboard. After realizing that their was nothing that I could do on it besides switch from Metro to "desktop" mode, and open IE and notepad, I left the store thinking about how a non techie person would come away feeling about this device. FAIL! Trackpad is crap and it was begging for a mouse. Also I would not consider buying the touch cover as it was awfull, but I didn't have any choice to try the type cover.




Fails at primary purpose.
By tayb on 3/16/2013 2:10:54 PM , Rating: 2
I've used the Surface Pro. It's awesome. But it fails at replacing my notebooks and tablet with a single device. If I have to carry around multiple devices I would rather carry around devices that excel at specific purposes. Fast notebook and long battery tablet not a device in the middle that compromises on both.

I also think the device is too expensive. If it was cheaper I would replace my travel notebook with it just for the pen. At $1000 + $129 for the type cover I'll stick with my current setup.

If I could get 8-10 hours of battery life consistently I would be a buyer. As it stands, fail by Microsoft.




Micrsosft pro
By unconvinced on 3/17/2013 3:12:57 PM , Rating: 2

The pro version of Microsfts tablet should have been priced at around £199 and the one with 128gb memory for £250. Anything above this price and the cheaper £150 tablets will always win.
To think that starting the pricing at £1000 was a good idea is not only stupid but could have destroyed Microsoft's attempt to enter the market. I would think only businesses could afford that price point and possibly 3-4 % of the rest of the market.

I don't even think it is worth mentioning the Microsoft rt, what a mistake and loss of investment money that could have encouraged a drop in the price of the pro.




By Articuno on 3/15/2013 11:33:10 AM , Rating: 1
After Ballmer blew through billions trying (and obviously failing) to turn Microsoft into Apple... do they even have enough left to fix their company?




Missing the boat
By Tony Swash on 3/15/2013 4:06:47 PM , Rating: 1
Here are two photos of the crow awaiting the new pope in St Peters Square, one from 2005 and one from 2013. It graphically illustrates the scale of the mobile revolution.

http://f.cl.ly/items/0l0t1I443T1o3F3o2V2y/Screen%2...

What proportion of those devices in the 2013 photo use an operating system made by Microsoft?

Microsoft missed the mobile revolution and it's very late response, Windows 8, tried to solve the problem Microsoft faced rather than any problems that consumers faced.

Sometime very soon we will be able to definitely say that it is game over for Microsoft in the mobile device markets.




One-upsmanship
By Motoman on 3/15/13, Rating: -1
RE: One-upsmanship
By Motoman on 3/15/13, Rating: -1
RE: One-upsmanship
By ClownPuncher on 3/15/2013 11:53:27 AM , Rating: 2
You're kind of an abrasive twat.


RE: One-upsmanship
By Motoman on 3/15/2013 12:28:28 PM , Rating: 2
...says the guy who recently posted:

quote:
F%ck you. I thought you died yesterday, Chavez.


...only without the "%" instead of a "u."

Kettle to pot...kettle to pot...thou art black...over.


RE: One-upsmanship
By ClownPuncher on 3/15/2013 12:37:11 PM , Rating: 2
Does that change anything? I'm also an abrasive twat, but that doesn't mean you aren't.


RE: One-upsmanship
By Spuke on 3/15/2013 1:21:52 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
..says the guy who recently posted: quote: F%ck you. I thought you died yesterday, Chavez.
LMAO


RE: One-upsmanship
By MadMan007 on 3/15/2013 11:20:11 AM , Rating: 2
'Imma'?

'parend'?

Any idiot can write posts on the internet too.


RE: One-upsmanship
By Motoman on 3/15/2013 11:31:44 AM , Rating: 2
Firstly, I'm not being paid to do it.

Secondly, it's clear from the usage of "imma" that I'm simply using a made-up word from the popular lexicon.

Thirdly, "parend" is the common term used as a singular form of "parentheses," especially with regards to computer programming syntax. I can still remember my professors writing code on the board and saying out loud "open parend" and "close parend" as they went along...


RE: One-upsmanship
By inighthawki on 3/15/2013 3:52:25 PM , Rating: 2
I can't say I've ever seen anyone use "parend" before. I'm fairly convinced you made that one up, because I work with very skilled programmers every day and not one has ever referred to parentheses in that way.

Trying to use the word "Imma" as shorthand also isn't helping your case.


"It looks like the iPhone 4 might be their Vista, and I'm okay with that." -- Microsoft COO Kevin Turner














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