DailyTech - Microsoft Stands Firmly Behind HD DVD; "Absolutely No Plans" to Support Blu-ray

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Hardware Microsoft Stands Firmly Behind HD DVD; "Absolutely No Plans" to Support Blu-ray
Marcus Yam (Blog) - May 18, 2007 9:01 AM

43 comment(s) - last by jadedeath.. on May 21 at 12:02 PM

Microsoft says HD DVD or bust

Microsoft, a firm backer of HD DVD, has reiterated its support for the format via its Xbox 360-centric Gamerscore Blog. It begins, “Just want to clear up a few things surrounding several erroneous stories regarding alleged comments from Peter Moore about Xbox 360 supporting Blu-ray. Simply put...These reports are completely incorrect.”

Microsoft VP Peter Moore was quoted at CES saying that Xbox 360 has the flexibility to adapt to consumers’ needs, allowing Microsoft to add features as consumers demand them. Peter Moore isn’t the only Microsoft senior to make comments on the Xbox 360 ability to support a Blu-ray peripheral – Microsoft Europe’s senior regional director, Neil Thompson, said in late March that the Xbox 360 could get a Blu-ray Disc drive add-on should that format prove to be victorious.

“Whatever format wins it is highly likely we will offer a solution,” Thompson said. “The only debate is if you want to watch Blu-ray movies and pay the extra money for that feature. We prefer to offer the consumer choice.”

Currently, the Blu-ray Disc and HD DVD format war – which a Disney CEO claims is mainly a U.S. phenomenon – is still undecided. Recent software sales figure for the two formats place both HD DVD and Blu-ray at around the one million mark.

The Microsoft Gamerscore Blog concludes, “We firmly stand behind the HD DVD format as the best choice for consumers. Current reports indicating that Microsoft has a back-up plan, which includes Blu-ray support are incorrect. We’re fully committed to HD DVD and have absolutely no plans to support other optical formats.”

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Well,

By bighairycamel on 5/18/2007 9:13:47 AM , Rating: 2

I would like to speak on behalf of most of us and say, “Well DUUUUUUUH”. Despite the remarks made by moore and others, most of us knew the chances of MS supporting Blu-ray were the same as Sony supporting HD-DVD, no matter which format “wins”.

RE: Well,

By TomZ on 5/18/2007 9:32:06 AM , Rating: 4

I disagree. I think what Microsoft is saying is that it is technically possible to ad BD support for XBOX360, and that Microsoft will develop whatever hardware is necessary for XBOX360 including a BD drive if necessary.

But on the other hand, Microsoft doesn't want to give off the impression of throwing in the towel, or appearing nonchalant about the outcome of the "format war," since it was part of the HD-DVD development team. In other words, Microsoft wants to make it clear that, for now at least, they fully support HD-DVD in lieu of BD.

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RE: Well,

By h0kiez on 5/18/2007 9:57:32 AM , Rating: 2

Agreed. Plus, by the time there's actually a winner, a combo drive could be cheap and easy to manufacture. A combo-drive add on for $199 or less in just a year or so seems easy to imagine.

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RE: Well,

By hermitd on 5/18/2007 10:35:43 AM , Rating: 2

i think microsoft is betting on downloads. HD DVD is a temp solution which will keep market going while they implement proper HD downloads.
Hopefully they will allow the HD downloads to be moved outside the xbox drives in future. If so that will work better otherwise i will wait till the day i can download HD stuff to my PC and stream it using media center.

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RE: Well,

By zombiexl on 5/18/2007 11:20:52 AM , Rating: 2

I agree they are betting on downloads. The only problem I see there is the drive sizes/prices.

Also I'd like to own content, rather than renting it. But i'm not sure what price point it would have to hit to make me more interested in a digital vs physical version.

I can already get OnDemand HD from Comcast for less then MS is charging for HD download rentals. Although they are a little more competative now that you dont have to wait for the full thing to DL..

I doubt the studios will allow MS to allow storage outside of the Xbox. My guess is they believe it to be much more secure on the Xbox than if it were allowed to be played with on a computer.

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RE: Well,

By bkm32 on 5/18/07, Rating: 0

By bkm32 on 5/18/2007 12:32:50 PM , Rating: 0

I agree with you guys on MS banking on DL demand for its HD movie content. However, there are two major problems that I see (3 if you count the inevitable flooding of the SE Asia and the entire computer manufacturing infrastructure due to global warming, and 4 if you count global warming (who's going to care about videogames if the planet's flooded), but I digress):

1) Currently, (nor in the near-term) no X360 games support the increased media size of HD-DVD. While more and more PS3 games do and will take up to 25-50GB of disk size, X360 games will be limited to a measly 4.7-9.4GBs. Third-party devs will begin to take advantage of this to distinguish multi-format games from one another (a new form of "exclusive" will emerge). This is (and MS fans won't like this, although its true) the single largest advantage that the PS3 has over the X360 as a games console. Why Sony doesn't promote this is beyond me.

Therefore, I expect disks (or some version of "physical" ROM to be available for the next 10-15 years. This means, the BR-DVD/HD-DVD format war is here to stay, and like any fan of the "Highlander" movies (and TV show) knows, "there can be only one!"

2) Bandwidth--Currently, there doesn't exist large enough bandwidth to make downloading of HD content (let alone games) an exclusive content delivery method. This is a hindrance to both MS and Sony. Althought Sony is pressing forth in this area via titles like "Warhawk", downloading a 30-45GB game is still cumbersome and risky for the consumer. Therefore, "chunks" of the game are downloaded piecemeal, as is the case with the aforementioned "Warhawk". Until the communcations infrastructure is updated, which will be a very long time, (consider how long it took for DSL to become mainstream and it still has below 50% penetration) or compression tech advances by several orders of magnitude this will prohibit (in any convenient fashion) downloading full game content for both MS and Sony.

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RE: Well,

By walk2k on 5/18/2007 1:39:17 PM , Rating: 2

Agreed. People aren't going to be downloading 50GB hi-def movies on a regular basis any time soon. Even if they did, where would they store it? On a recordable Blu-ray disc? Even a monster HDD is going to fill up pretty quick at that rate (not to mention, the puny 20GB in the majority of Xbox 360s).

MS won't be putting an internal HD-DVD drive (or BD for that matter) in the 360 because it would be pointless, no games can use it. Maybe in the Xbox "720" or whatever the next model is...

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RE: Well,

By jadedeath on 5/19/07, Rating: 0

By jadedeath on 5/19/2007 12:11:46 PM , Rating: 0

You mean like the 'no games' like Metal Gear Solid {in which they've stated that there's no way they'd be able to fit the game on a regular DVD} GTA4 {in which they're having problems putting it on a regular DVD} Ratchet and Clank, amung others.

Microsoft kinda shot themselves in the foot this Generation, more and more games are coming out that are using up more and more space on a disk. I hear alot of hype over a new racing game that is coming out for the 360 {not that I care what the title is, there's only so many times I can go around in a circle without getting bored} which has half a dozen maps. Wow. Color me impressed!

Saying "but you can download the extra maps and race tracks and everything else on Xbox-Live" is all well and good, however, I prefer to pay more for the player now, same amount for a game AND get all the info without having to pay a subscription fee {and possibly a per-map fee like with Gears of War} to get something that I really should have had in the first place.

Now personally, I think both of the bigger companies should have waited. 360 was rushed to the market, and so was the PS3. They should have waited until this year to release them and released them both this Christmas when the manufacturing costs of both systems is going to be a hell of alot cheaper. Sony is proving that there's still life in the old systems with PS2 doing so well and God of War 2 being released in the top 10.

Logan

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RE: Well,

By Sureshot324 on 5/20/2007 7:52:34 PM , Rating: 2

Neither GT4 nor Metal Gear Solid really *need* more than 9gb. They are just filling the disk with HD video that the games could easily do without. There are few current games that don't fit on a single layer dvd, much less dual layer.

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RE: Well,

By jadedeath on 5/21/2007 11:53:39 AM , Rating: 1

The MGS creator specifically stated that there was no way that they could even remotely put MGS on a DVD9 due to disk size, it doesn't matter that it's HD video or not {I'd rather see HD video for my cut-scenes than regular video} the fact remains that games sizes are getting bigger, I mean take a look at Gears of War, I'm sure that Microsoft wanted to put the extra maps on the disk, however they released them on Xbox-Live. At extra cost.

Personally I'd want a disk format that would be able to have all that information, maps, race tracks, cut scenes, etc. etc. etc. on one disk as opposed to downloading them online for an extra cost.

Logan

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RE: Well,

By jadedeath on 5/19/2007 12:16:21 PM , Rating: 2

I completely agree here, I don't want only 6 maps when I buy a new racing game {plus the Live subscription and pay-per-download of new maps} I'd rather have all the stuff they could pack into one of those 50 gig disks and play the game without having to PAY for the game all over again.

I mean if Sony releases an exclusive racing game {even buy the rights to one of the smaller ones} and jam-packs it full of tracks, music and everything else they can imagine just to prove the point of how much info they can fit on a disk they'd be far better off.

Logan

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RE: Well,

By ani4ani on 5/18/2007 12:34:01 PM , Rating: 2

I am not so sure. Take notice that he didn't say "will never" instead he uses the classic "no plans" which means truthfully when you ask me now, we have no plans. I have no plans for lots of things, but I quite often end up doing them!

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What if...

By bkm32 on 5/18/2007 12:48:59 PM , Rating: 1

I enjoy reading the posts on DT more than the articles themselves. This is no offense to DT's busy staff, but a compliment to the very informed posters of this site. Therefore, I have a question or two, maybe three...

What if MS created an HD/BR-DVD dual-format (forgive the redundency) embedded drive for the X360 and sold it for $700, would it be worth buying? For who, the hardcore, mainstream audience, or HD movie lovers only? Keep in mind, this is $300 more than the current Pro, $100 more than the PS3, $450 more than the Wii, but $300 less than the expected dual-format player from LG.

And, would it kill the Wii?

If this has been asked and answered, then please forgive my ignorance concerning the above questions. As for my ignorance concerning anything else...well...see Kubicki's quote about state-funded math programs and ready your whips.

"Talk amongst yourselves".

RE: What if...

By jadedeath on 5/18/2007 1:13:04 PM , Rating: 2

700 for an X360?

Probably not. At least not anytime soon, the main argument that the 360-heads out there constantly bring up is that the 360 is cheaper than the PS3 and that's what people want {and the sales figures prove that somewhat}

In order for the 360 to have an internal dual reading drive, it would probably cost a hell of alot more than $700 considering that the stand alone players are a little over $1000 for dual, there's no chance of this happening any time soon.

Logan

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RE: What if...

By zombiexl on 5/18/2007 1:49:16 PM , Rating: 3

quote:
In order for the 360 to have an internal dual reading drive, it would probably cost a hell of alot more than $700 considering that the stand alone players are a little over $1000 for dual, there's no chance of this happening any time soon.

While i dont see it happening anytime soon, I disagree with your reasoning. I think the drive itself is a low part of the cost. The electronics in the device, decoder, etc are more costly.

The 360 already has the capability to decode HD video, so really the only difference is a drive and some software to support BR (HD-DVD is already covered).

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RE: What if...

By bkm32 on 5/18/2007 2:02:07 PM , Rating: 2

Then why is LG charging $1K for a dual format player with two separate drives?

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HD-DVD Blue Ray Wars

By BigDDesign on 5/18/2007 10:22:09 PM , Rating: 2

Both formats are going to be around for the for quite some time. HD-DVD discs are much cheaper to produce, players are going to be the 1st that are really going to be affordable. Blue Ray will be always more money for players and discs to manufacture. With this in mind, the general public will start the cycle of buying HD-DVD discs and players. Not to mention, the pron industry is going to full production of HD-DVD discs. They will offer Blue Ray also, but mark my words.... Pron will be all over HD-DVD. So with the general public buying cheap players and buying a boatload of HD-DVD discs (that will be discounted in stores over Blue Ray), and the amount of regular people using the HD-DVD format will force the movie studios to offer their movies in both formats. Anyone that thinks that it won't play out like this better re-think their conclusions. This is how it is going done with the format wars. The war is over and both with be available. Peroid. By the way, I'm in the middle of a Home Theater setup for one of my friends. I had him get both players (new Samsung Blue Ray/Toshiba XA-2) and am waiting for HDMI Cables to come from Monoprice to finish the job. My friend waited a long time to commit to a top shelf Home Theater and I told him to get both the players. He is very well off and it just made sense to me to suggest that he get both. If something comes out in High Def on whichever format, he can just get it. If I had the money, I'd get both too. But when it comes to the wars, the cheaper price of HD-DVD will make the both formats staying around ineveitable.

RE: HD-DVD Blue Ray Wars

By jadedeath on 5/19/2007 11:42:32 AM , Rating: 2

If HD is SOooooo much cheaper to make, then why are they charging the EXACT same amount of money for an HD disk as they are for a Blu-Ray disk?

That proves one of two things, either a} they're bullshitting the customer by SAYing that they're cheaper to produce when the opposite is true, or b} they're bullshitting the customer by screwing them for the cost of the movies themselves.

Porn will not determine the HD wars. period. People download porn and noone wants to see a haggard porn actress in HD. Unless you're a really sick f**k and are into that sort of thing.

You can say "this is how it's going to be with the format wars" until you're blue in the face, facts are Blu-Ray is outselling HD 2-1 and that gap is only getting wider. By the end of the year with Universal only having a few big releases and the companies that have the split having to divy up the totals between Blu-Ray and HD, after Spider-Man 3 comes out, and Shrek 3, and Pirates 3, it will only spell bad things for HD-DVD.

Your friend is truly a trusting soul, if anyone told me to get both players {no matter the amount of money that I have} I'd tell them to f**k off, I'd wait until the format war was over or get a PS3 because at least then I know that Sony will keep releasing Blu-Ray disks with content on them {the games} and there is a future there.

Logan

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RE: HD-DVD Blue Ray Wars

By theapparition on 5/21/2007 8:11:43 AM , Rating: 2

quote:
That proves one of two things, either a} they're bullshitting the customer by SAYing that they're cheaper to produce when the opposite is true, or b} they're bullshitting the customer by screwing them for the cost of the movies themselves.

You forgot another possibility. That HD disks are sold with standard margins, while BR disks are sold at a loss to stay competitive. Be fair with your possibilities.

I personally don't know what the situation is, but I do know some things as fact. Disc manufacturers who want to make HD-DVD's need only make simple changes to their manufacturing equipment. BluRay requires several million dollars of capital investment. Overall disk manufacturing costs should be about the same per format.

The current cost to make a DVD is in the low "pennies" range. Add labor, overhead, manufacturing, packaging, distribution, marketing, etc, each boxed DVD costs about $3 to make. Considering that most 1st run DVD's cost ~$20, that's a hell of a profit. So as to the customer getting "screwed", you'll find most things are not priced on fixed margin, rather they are priced on what the market can bear. Does intel's $1000 processor cost them any more money to make than their $200 processor? But the market is willing to pay that for the better part. Or should sony be "fair" and charge $200 more for the PS3 since they are losing ~200 per console?

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RE: HD-DVD Blue Ray Wars

By jadedeath on 5/21/2007 12:02:59 PM , Rating: 2

There IS that possibility. However if they WERE selling Blu-Ray at a loss, then like the PS3 that fact would be shouted about and blogged about constantly.

If Blu-Ray manufacturers only have to spend a couple million at the beginning and spend the same amount in the end then the disks will eventually pay for themselves.

I agree that per-DVD it probably only costs about 3 bucks or so, but then the manufacturer has to ship it out {more cost probably ramping it up to about the 6 dollar per range} then they have to sell it to the distributor most likely only making give-or-take 12 bucks per disk, that's still alot of money.

From there if it's more expensive for them to make a Blu-Ray movie then why are HD-DVD's just as expensive, you'd think if they're cheaper {and they want to win} then they should lower the price, and the HD+DVD stuff is just confusing the customer by giving them something that is a DVD and an HD-DVD {if that format loses they're screwed} so they're paying twice as much for something that they only need half of.

Personally I think Sony should bite the bullet and flood the market with PS3's but the shareholders at Sony would violently disagree with me.

Logan

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If that's the case...

By Eurasianman on 5/18/2007 9:28:26 AM , Rating: 2

quote:
The Microsoft Gamerscore Blog concludes, “We firmly stand behind the HD DVD format as the best choice for consumers. Current reports indicating that Microsoft has a back-up plan, which includes Blu-ray support are incorrect. We’re fully committed to HD DVD and have absolutely no plans to support other optical formats.”

If that's the case and if HDDVD parts come down in price, anyone think they'll ever incorporate the HD-DVD drive into the XBOX 360?

RE: If that's the case...

By ricera10 on 5/18/2007 10:06:17 AM , Rating: 3

When the drive costs the same as the DVD player they currently use. That said, it'll probably come in the next version of the Xbox.

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RE: If that's the case...

By zombiexl on 5/18/2007 11:26:17 AM , Rating: 2

The drive (just the drive) itself can be had off of ebay for about $100 shipped right now.

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Duuh, redux

By jdmba on 5/18/2007 11:02:59 AM , Rating: 3

Many of the comments are being too kind, discussing technical abilities, etc.

The bottom line here is that the console wars will win the format war. It is not the other way around. The most versatile, least expensive, and most readily available players for EACH format were the underlying consoles.

Since Microsoft's XBOX and Sony's Playstation are the giants in this battle, it would likely NEVER EVER happen that Microsoft WOULD ever support Blu-Ray.

Of course, since Microsoft can't come out and say this (how would that be for PR), they can talk about corporate direction, hardware compatibilities, and the superiority of the format they chose, etc.

I wouldn't give this a second thought ... it ain't gonna happen.

Xbox Elite?

By fcx56 on 5/18/2007 9:34:07 AM , Rating: 2

Not that I'd ever believe that Microsoft would want to put BR on it's console, but I couldn't help being reminded of “At the moment, everything you might have seen is just looking at our experimentation back in Redmond, not really a product that we're thinking about announcing.”
Even though I will admit that HDMI was sorely missing, and anything Blu-Ray offers could probably be addressed with HD-DVD, I couldn't imagine Microsoft not having a backup plan just in case. I'd bank on it ending up as a hybrid drive in the far future because it doesn't look like anyone is "winning" anytime soon, definately not consumers....

Keep out.

By crystal clear on 5/18/2007 11:02:00 AM , Rating: 2

Strictly from a marketing point of view-

MS should not get involved in FORMAT wars & provide the buyers both or any of the formats.
Ultimately what counts is

quote:
"How much you sell"

Keep the buyers happy.

3rd party?

By GoatMonkey on 5/18/2007 1:24:55 PM , Rating: 2

What's to stop a third party company from coming along and building a Bluray drive for the 360? They are allowed to make controllers and that kind of thing, so why not an add on drive? Licensing restrictions?

Black color to match the Elite?

By Jackyl on 5/18/2007 2:08:53 PM , Rating: 2

Any plans to release black color HD-DVD drive to match the Elite?

Was Zephyr any different?

By Von Matrices on 5/19/2007 1:55:07 AM , Rating: 2

This statement reminds me of when Microsoft denied any possibility of an HDMI output surfacing on a production Xbox 360 even though prototypes were in hand. While Microsoft denying any consideration of introducing a Blu-ray disc add-on is not the exact same situation as with the HDMI output, I am sure that they have at least made a (closely-guarded) prototype as a backup plan. Similar to the HDMI fiasco, the company is trying to cover up the words of its employees who are releasing more than Microsoft wants the public to know.

Again

By Conman530 on 5/20/2007 3:26:20 AM , Rating: 2

Id bet you MS has a backup plan with Blu-Ray support, but they wont tell you that yet. Sony made (and still makes) VCRs after their Betamax collapsed. If (like VHS tape) Blu-Ray was to become the standard, it is not likely MS is going to just sit around during Blu-Ray's rule, in an anger of defeat not doing anything. MS will act accordingly and make logical decisions if this particular situation were to arise.

Price Factor Starting to make waves?

By Mitch101 on 5/18/2007 11:20:39 AM , Rating: 2

I think with the price factor of the HD-DVD add on and the up and coming $200-$300 father day price tag of stand alone HD-DVD units it going to cause HD-DVD adoption rates to climb pretty quickly.

I dont know of anyone who is buying the Blue Ray set top boxes especially at $600+ bills. The only real market share is the PS3 sales which although decent a lot of people still wont spend $600 on it because they dont want a game machine. Everyone I know who bought a PS3 wanted the game system. The Blue Ray was a perk but not a deciding factor. I know its dual function but some would rather just have a BlueRay player they dont see having a PS3 as needed. So the $600.00 price tag still stands to go the Blue Ray route. This is bad for Blue Ray sales of those who just want a player because they need a sub $300.00 player as I know many people who feel $300.00 and less is when they will buy an HD movie player.

Either way consumers lose because of the stupid format war.

I think all studios should throw in the towel and make movies for both format otherwise if they only make one format they are creating a pirate market for the conversion. I know you dont like that comment but if someone is walking in NY and see someone selling an HD-DVD or Pirates of the Carribean or Shrek he may not know its not a legit release and buy it. If you havent seen a bootleg they do a pretty darn good job of making it look legitimate and the average consumer most probably cant tell the difference. The movie industry needs to make movies for both formats. The sales of both sides is already too large to repeat the VHS/BETA war and choose a side.

Or we need a dual format drive cheap in price which we will probably see in about 2 years.

Again the consumers lose.

RE: Price Factor Starting to make waves?

By jadedeath on 5/18/07, Rating: -1

Right

By Ard on 5/18/2007 11:44:53 PM , Rating: 1

I'll be bookmarking this so I can lmao when MS pulls another 180 after HD-DVD tanks.

MS Is only hurting themselves...

By TheRequiem on 5/18/07, Rating: 0

ROTFL...

By xuimod on 5/18/07, Rating: -1

RE: ROTFL...

By h0kiez on 5/18/2007 9:58:28 AM , Rating: 1

Such a well thought out, elegant response.

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RE: ROTFL...

By FITCamaro on 5/18/07, Rating: -1

RE: ROTFL...

By mars777 on 5/18/07, Rating: -1

RE: ROTFL...

By TomZ on 5/18/2007 12:18:21 PM , Rating: 4

And the lie here MS told in this case would be... ?

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RE: ROTFL...

By bkm32 on 5/18/07, Rating: -1

RE: ROTFL...

By TomZ on 5/18/2007 1:19:29 PM , Rating: 1

Microsoft has said it has no plans to support BD, and they have also said that at some point in the future, they might change that decision if there is strong market demand for BD. It is not clear to me where the lie is. Are you inferring that they do, in fact, have plans for a BD drive for the '360?

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RE: ROTFL...

By bkm32 on 5/18/2007 2:07:04 PM , Rating: 2

Uh...no. I was just joking. Its not obvious to me what the "lie" is. I was mildly poking fun at the obscurity of the "lie" poster.

Dadgumit! Tain't funny if yas got ta splain it!

Look what you made me do. You made me go "country".

I hope you're happy now! Thanks!

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