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Kinect for Xbox 360 and Playstation Move  (Source: digitaltrends.com)
The company's original target was 5 million

In the first 60 days since its launch, Microsoft sold over 8 million Xbox Kinect's, which not only surpassed the company's own target, but also trumped the sales of Sony's competing system, Playstation Move, by about 4 million units.

Microsoft's Kinect is a controller-free, webcam-style gaming experience made for Xbox 360, where gamers have the ability to manipulate the actions of on-screen characters through a series of spoken commands and physical gestures. Sony's Playstation Move is a motion-sensing game controller platform made for Playstation 3. 

Sony's Playstation Move launched first on September 17, 2010 in North America, and the company sold 4.1 million units within the first 60 days. On the other hand, the Kinect launched on November 4, 2010 in North America and sold over 8 million units within the first 60 days. 

To buy the Playstation Move, the controller is $50 or $400 when purchased as a Playstation 3 bundle. Or, if you're more into the controller-free gaming experience, the Kinect is $150 by itself or $300 when bundled with the 4 gigabyte Xbox 360. 

While crushing the sales of a competing opponent is a great victory for the company, it isn't the only Microsoft-related news Steve Ballmer, Microsoft's Chief Executive Officer, had to share at the Consumer Electronics Show this week. In addition, Verizon Wireless and Sprint will carry phones based on Microsoft's "fledgling Windows 7 Phone operating software from this years first half." 

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I'd like to know...
By DNAgent on 1/6/2011 3:21:41 PM , Rating: 2
The ratio of Move/Kinect units sold in the first 60 days to the market penetration of the respective consoles. Anyone wanna do the math?




RE: I'd like to know...
By tim851 on 1/6/2011 7:10:28 PM , Rating: 2
Well, the X360 has sold 30m units in the Americas vs 18m for the PS3. So it almost pans out.


RE: I'd like to know...
By kleinma on 1/6/2011 7:43:48 PM , Rating: 2
Don't forget how many people wrote off the kinect before its launch as a total lame accessory that would bomb.

So far the only thing lame about it is the game lineup, but now that there are 8 million units out there and climbing, we might see some decent titles actually come out.

That coupled with the supposed software updates to boost the abilities somewhere in the range of 4x, and this thing could be a real beast.

If only they could update it to work in smaller places, even more people would buy it.


RE: I'd like to know...
By lolmuly on 1/7/11, Rating: -1
RE: I'd like to know...
By therealnickdanger on 1/7/2011 8:07:49 AM , Rating: 3
To their credit, Microsoft is releasing an update that will allow for a massive resolution upgrade - which will allow for reading of facial expressions as well as individual finger movements and overall better motion capture. I think that developers will be able to do a LOT more with that. Spellcasting in RPGs, for example, could end up being a very organic experience without having to navigate spell menus or use button combinations.

I was of the opinion that Kinect was half-baked upon release. That opinion was based upon demoing the product first hand. The above-mentioned update proves I was correct - they still had tweaking to do. Now I'll just wait for it to get below $100 and I'll be more than happy to buy one. :)


RE: I'd like to know...
By lolmuly on 1/7/2011 7:17:26 PM , Rating: 2
I'm not saying the hardware isn't great, it is, they put a lot of time and money into developing it, and from what i've heard the firmware for it operates without issue.

However Kinect is part of a larger development path, and won't be worth anything for another 5-8 years. Until it is combined with the rest of the peripherals they are developing it won't be useful in a game. By the time that happens this version of it will be outdated and you'll have to buy a new one anyway.

They are selling this as a marketing gimmick, and you're all buying into it, the only reason they are selling this now and not putting it on the shelf for a few years is so that they can make money back on the development of the hardware and make it look like a win on their quarterly report.

Hands free gaming is a ridiculous concept. Combine the kinect with other pieces of hardware, say an emotiv epoch, a stereoscopic head mounted lcd display, xbox live headset, and some sort of hand held controller (or glove controllers?). Once you do this you will have a SERIOUS gaming platform.

If you're buying this as a developer to toy around with, cool, but it's a sh*t deal for consumers. Hope you're happy with your 100$ marketing gimmick.


RE: I'd like to know...
By retrospooty on 1/9/2011 10:05:17 AM , Rating: 2
"They are selling this as a marketing gimmick, and you're all buying into it, the only reason they are selling this now and not putting it on the shelf for a few years is so that they can make money back on the development of the hardware and make it look like a win on their quarterly report."

You have no clue what your talking about. I own one, and I can tell you its selling well because its fun. To be honest, its not really my thing, I like FPS games, but for kids and sports games, this thing rocks. My wife and daughter are monopolizing my Xbox and loving it... You cant wpie the smiles of thier faces when they are playing, and my wife isnt even a gamer. As a gamer myself, I realize this is just the first round of games. Give it another year or two when all the really great developers start doing some more creative things with it. #1 on my wish list - fight night round 5, or a similar boxing game. Kinect sports has boxing, but its avatar based and not too well done like fight night round 4 is. Combine fight night round 4's gameplay with Kinect and you have some serious awesomness.

Another great use is excercise. The fitness uses are limitless. Your shape fitness evolved has tons of potential. You watch, 4-5 years down the road you will see that this tech changed everything.


RE: I'd like to know...
By Smilin on 1/10/2011 6:11:24 PM , Rating: 2
Agree 1000%

All of it.

And yeah the Kinect Fight Night is going to be the absolut shiz. Kinect Boxing is competitive enough to start real fights already.


RE: I'd like to know...
By Smilin on 1/7/2011 10:35:38 AM , Rating: 2
Your Shape: Fitness evolved rocks. Head to head table tennis over the 'net is a *blast*. You wouldn't know without playing.

Now give me my internets, hater.


RE: I'd like to know...
By lolmuly on 1/7/2011 7:04:47 PM , Rating: 2
1. what does fitness have to do with gaming? 2. table tennis is a mini game... /facepalm

Give me a good IDEA for a serious game that would work well, not make you feel like an idiot, and not tire you out in the first 10 minutes.


RE: I'd like to know...
By retrospooty on 1/9/2011 10:18:35 AM , Rating: 2
"Give me a good IDEA for a serious game that would work well"


Boxing, Golf, Tennis, skateboarding/surfing, water/snowski. ... Pretty much any sports game. Hunting/shooting games, Light saber battles, or any other hand to hand melee type games, Any number of dance games. There are also limitless possibilities for kids games.

quote:
what does fitness have to do with gaming


It will sell kinects, therefore it is related. MY wife uses Zumba fitness and Your shape fitness evolved religiously now. This will usher is a whole new generation of fitness and training. ITs way better than watching workout DVD's for 3 reasons. 1) You get varying workouts instead of hte same DVD over and over. 2) Intelligent workouts that are watching you and guiding you "arms higher, left leg farther out". 3) Downloadable content - nuff said

Now also imagine the training that it can do... tapdancing or balet lessens for your daughter, or ballroom dancing for granma, or even riverdancing for "weird aunt got5catsandnoman"


RE: I'd like to know...
By Aloonatic on 1/10/2011 6:35:44 AM , Rating: 2
Kids games, sure, but Nintendo haven't really done much wit their Wii, really, beyond all the hype. I am also not sure that parents will be all that keen on having kinect games that require a camera in their kids' bedrooms, once there has been the odd sensationalised "news" special on the dangers of these things in childrens' bedrooms and all the perverts that could use them to spy on them, no matter how stupid and impossible it might technically be.

As for your last paragraph, that's just sad. Children should be learning ballet properly with a proper tutor, for their own safety, and to meet other kids. I'm not sure how granny is going to ballroom dance on her own too, unless the kinect can project a partner to lead her, but really ,she should eb out meeting other people too? Then your weird aunt really really really needs to get out and meet people when learning river-dance, rather than just being locked away in her home using a kinect. If this sort of device encourages further isolationism of people, and you think that that is a great thing then I am a more than a little saddened, to be honest.

I'm glad that your wife is keeping herself in shape for you tho :o)


RE: I'd like to know...
By Smilin on 1/10/2011 6:22:57 PM , Rating: 2
quote:

As for your last paragraph, that's just sad. Children should be learning ballet properly with a proper tutor, for their own safety, and to meet other kids. I'm not sure how granny is going to ballroom dance on her own too, unless the kinect can project a partner to lead her, but really ,she should eb out meeting other people too? Then your weird aunt really really really needs to get out and meet people when learning river-dance, rather than just being locked away in her home using a kinect. If this sort of device encourages further isolationism of people, and you think that that is a great thing then I am a more than a little saddened, to be honest.


Your mental image of what is happening is wrong. Try this one:

6 kids in a room bouncing off the walls waiting for their turn in the playspace to go head to head with their buddy on the system next door. Kinect does a great deal to advance social behavior in gaming. Things are possible now (Video Kinect anyone?) that weren't with just the controller.


RE: I'd like to know...
By Aloonatic on 1/11/2011 7:39:23 AM , Rating: 2
Nice new example, that has nothing to do with anything that you said before. I don't have a problem with people using consoles and PCs for socialising on-line, but none of the examples that you used before hinted at that at all. Even if you could interact on them though, they will never replace genuine, face to face contact. Nor will a preprogrammed tutor on the kinect replace an actual human tutor either, IMHO. It will take a lot more than that, a lot more AI.

Kids can play with their friends on a console, they have been able to for years, I'm not really sure what you think is so special about the kinect in this regard. Might be a bit cheaper perhaps, but that's about it. I'd be interested to see how well a kinect copes with 6 kids trying to use it too.


RE: I'd like to know...
By Smilin on 1/11/2011 11:29:23 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Nice new example, that has nothing to do with anything that you said before.


Um. Ok. I'll just copy past what I said before over and over then? wtf? We're on to a new point now. Be flexible like the leaf, grasshoppa.

No, nothing will replace face to face contact. If that's your point then it was a waste of time to make it. Everyone knows that already.

That doesn't mean that improving upon NO contact is a bad thing though.

Room of players > Video Call > voice call > texting > gaming with no communication > gaming alone. Kinect makes a great experience all the way down that line of comparison.

Are you saying that because Fitness Evolved doesn't fully replace a Trainer that we should just stick to sitting on the couch? That sounds a bit jaded.

You've very very obviously never seen kids using a Kinect so you're making assumptions that are very wrong.


RE: I'd like to know...
By Smilin on 1/10/2011 6:33:19 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Children should be learning ballet properly with a proper tutor, for their own safety, and to meet other kids


They should be attending the debutante ball as well?? You can buy a Kinect for less than ONE dancing lesson.

Your Shape: Fitness Evolved is only a partial substitute for a personal trainer but it is actually very effective for what it is. I know. I have both a personal trainer AND Fitness Evolved. Mind you one was $50 and one is $210 for just 30 days.


RE: I'd like to know...
By Aloonatic on 1/11/2011 7:29:57 AM , Rating: 2
Enjoy the hospital bills when your kid pulls/tares something, or injures themselves in another way *thumbs up*

(If you have insurance, then who cares? I know, money is all that matters, not their well-being or not putting a child at risk of injury. Who cares about that?)

I'm not saying that the kinect can't do what you suggest, just that it's not quite as good an idea as you seem to think that it is, or that you will really get the results that you seem to think that you will either.

I wish your lonely, friendless, socially inept child well for the future tho :o)


RE: I'd like to know...
By Smilin on 1/11/2011 11:42:02 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
I wish your lonely, friendless, socially inept child well for the future tho :o)

Wow. Personal insults against a child. Very classy man. If you're going to act like this maybe you shouldn't get involved in an argument where you know nothing about the subject matter. But since you started it (and again are cluess about the subject of this argument)...

quote:
Enjoy the hospital bills when your kid pulls/tares something, or injures themselves in another way *thumbs up*

(If you have insurance, then who cares? I know, money is all that matters, not their well-being or not putting a child at risk of injury. Who cares about that?)


Trust me your hospital bills for your diabetic cholesterol laded fat fuck kid who gets no excercise will be worse. My kid isn't a Mcdonalds Baby and gets TONS of physical activity (their christmas present was another outdoor playset, not kinect.) Sunny days on bikes and slides, rainy days in the house with their friends...and still getting excercise. If that's a bad way to raise my kids then call child services on me asshole.


RE: I'd like to know...
By Smilin on 1/10/2011 6:18:50 PM , Rating: 2
You probably feel like an idiot for the same reason you tire in 10 minutes.

Stick to a controller, a couch and a greasy bag of chips. If you don't get it you don't get it.

Me? I'm coordinated and have some modest amount of physical endurance. It's nice to enjoy hardcore 3d shooters (PC=hardcore, not console) AND all that the console AND all that Kinect has to offer. Bummer your closed mind is going to make you miss out on losing that gut.


RE: I'd like to know...
By Aloonatic on 1/11/2011 7:40:26 AM , Rating: 2
We're all very proud of you :o)

I hope that that makes you feel better :oD


RE: I'd like to know...
By Smilin on 1/11/2011 11:43:15 AM , Rating: 2
Your approval was what I was after. I am complete now. Thanks.


RE: I'd like to know...
By Aloonatic on 1/8/2011 5:48:13 AM , Rating: 2
What is it with table tennis? Gaming has come so far since pong... :o)

To their credit, MS have made a version of table tennis that you can virtually play that is not only far more expensive than just using your dining room table and a cheap table tennis set from toyRus, but they've also managed to make a version that requires as much space. Brilliant! :oD

It'll be interesting to see how long you'll be playing these Kinect mini-games for, or doing your yoga and fitness evolved. Much longer than people did with the Wii?

For the record, I think that kinect is a great piece of hardware and has a lot of potential. I'm just not sure that it's all that usable for people who live in smaller homes, nor that developers have realised quite what to do with it.

I think that it really could come into it's own with 3D TV gaming by the way. Kudos to MS for definitely trying something new, rather than just blatantly copying Nintendo as Sony have done.

If I didn't live in a country where petrol is at £1.30 a litre and sales tax has just been put up to 20%, I might almost think about buying a 360 and kinect just to play with one.


RE: I'd like to know...
By Smilin on 1/11/2011 12:03:14 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
What is it with table tennis? Gaming has come so far since pong... :o)

To their credit, MS have made a version of table tennis that you can virtually play that is not only far more expensive than just using your dining room table and a cheap table tennis set from toyRus, but they've also managed to make a version that requires as much space. Brilliant! :oD


I think you mean it takes up about 1/3 of the space when being used and 0 space at all when not. And no it's a TAD different from pong...

The nuanced controls in table tennis are what I dig. Take a rapid topspin rally and get ahead of the ball just enough to sneak in a backspin shot. Opponents next return is likely to go high for a slam setup and if you pushed your previous shots to his strongside that means the slam goes to his weak... yeah, not pong.

quote:
It'll be interesting to see how long you'll be playing these Kinect mini-games for, or doing your yoga and fitness evolved. Much longer than people did with the Wii?

Because of beta access I've been playing table tennis since around august with no signs of losing interest. The computer players aren't much of a challenge anymore though..mostly XBL now. Some of the other minigames (much of track and field) lost my interest immediately.

Soccer is kinda so-so but my daughter loves playing co-op with me and I'll take any excuse to do an activity with her.

The fitness game gets sporadic use...usually when I've had to work too late to hit the gym...plus the punch/kick mini-game in it is fun standalone.

quote:
For the record, I think that kinect is a great piece of hardware and has a lot of potential. I'm just not sure that it's all that usable for people who live in smaller homes, nor that developers have realised quite what to do with it.


Nope. Not well suited to a small house...but then neither is doing any kind of physical activity beyond an excercise bike. You would have the same problem with Sony Move or the Wii.

Developers are figuring it out quick but there is a learning curve. Menus are an example. Some games do them well like dance central, others are just UIs obviously designed for a mouse pointer. Fitness evolved is almost too good at menus. People stretch for controls not realizing it already calibrated their location to be at perfect arm length...and when they move the control moves away from them (following them around actually).


RE: I'd like to know...
By Smilin on 1/7/2011 10:41:57 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Don't forget how many people wrote off the kinect before its launch as a total lame accessory that would bomb.


Not me. Here is the big fat "I told you so" to all those that wrote it off. From the previous DT article on this..

quote:
I've played one for months now (can finally spill the beans without breaking my friends NDA). It absolutely will not flop. They are gonna sell a bajillion of these things and people are going to have a blast.

Hardcore gamer is not the same thing as "fun game hater". Even the hardcore folks (like me... 30hrs/wk of 3dshooters) are gonna have fun.


RE: I'd like to know...
By Jessedegenerate on 1/7/2011 3:53:34 PM , Rating: 2
"So far the only thing lame about it is the game lineup, but now that there are 8 million units out there and climbing, we might see some decent titles actually come out."

so the only thing lame about a video game controller is that there a no good games that take advantage of it.

sounds like it sucks to me (by your own account)


RE: I'd like to know...
By Smilin on 1/11/2011 12:04:26 PM , Rating: 2
I think he means there are too few titles, not that the existing ones are lame.


RE: I'd like to know...
By Aloonatic on 1/8/2011 6:13:33 AM , Rating: 2
I think you're exaggerating somewhat, or paying far too much attention to trolls. It was never going to "bomb" but it will be interesting how it is used, or if it is just something that is left watching its owner from the top of their TV as they play CoD X, rather than actually being played with. Or how many get returned after the holidays because kids can't use them as they just don't have the space and the parents didn't realise that when they bought it for their kid to use in their little bedroom.

What you have to remember, when it comes to predictions on here, is that they are mostly fuelled by hate, rather than genuinely well thought through opinion. This is the place that predicted that the iPad was (and still is apparently even after the sales figures have come out and everyone is trying desperately to make their own version) never going to succeed or sell well, after all.

You're quite right about the game line-up, but it's not the only thing that's lame about Kinect. I'd add the horrible TV advertisements as well :o) I'm not sure what you get in the US but in the UK, MS seems to think that people have their own sports hall or huge loft apartments and 60" TV to play in/on so you can still see what's happening, from so far away. Or that their girlfriends/wives are going to be super keen xBox users too now, as it can help them not be fat.

More seriously, I don't think that the lack of games is a MS/Kinect only problem. It's a motion control game/developer problem in general. The Wii hasn't really done much with it after all, and it's been around for years, other than making games like Mario a bit more annoying, forcing you to waggle the controller (which doesn't always work) when pressing a button would be far easier.

Kinect has by far the most potential out of it, the Wii and Move, it's just that it might take a while for games developers to catch on. Just like 3D TV/Film have potential, but producers/directors need time to learn how to work in a new medium too.

Kinect + 3D TV could be pretty awesome tho, but forgive me if I'm not going to bother holding my breath waiting for amazing games to come out that utilise it and make it a must have accessory. I could be a while, but I hope I'm wrong of course, for the sake of all those people who have invested in the hardware and encouraged developers to seriously think about it.


RE: I'd like to know...
By inperfectdarkness on 1/8/2011 2:14:55 AM , Rating: 2
very first thing i thought about.

while i think kinect is gimmicky (just like the move) i applaud its advent. perhaps now third parties will start trying to develop QUALITY games for motion/movement, rather than keep churning out shovelware. alas, nintendo has been blamed for said shovelware...and rather unfairly.


Holiday Season, anyone?
By rallyhard on 1/6/2011 8:07:30 PM , Rating: 2
It seems to me that this article is being rather sensationalistic by not specifically pointing out that the Kinect's first 60 days included the HOLIDAY SEASON, and the Move's did not.

Of course the Kinect sold way more "in it's first 60 days"!




RE: Holiday Season, anyone?
By Smilin on 1/7/2011 10:44:01 AM , Rating: 2
What??? It's the holiday season? HOW DID I NOT KNOW!!111ONE!

Yes, they definately should have mentioned this in the article. How are we to know otherwise?


Yes, the games right now suck...as expected
By Tabinium on 1/10/2011 3:38:04 PM , Rating: 2
The dozen or so titles out now are pretty lame (coming from an old-school PC gamer), but I'm shocked that most of you are so suprised at this. Most new platforms do not have any "killer" games when they are released, simply because no developer wants to spend the time & money on something that they fear might not sell. I imagine Microsoft (poorly) funded the mediocre games out now.

I have to raise an eyebrow to the poster who mentioned something about "finger" gestures- I don't believe the cameras and firmware in their current state do not have the resolution or processing power to accomplish something like this. However, I hope I'm wrong!




By Smilin on 1/10/2011 6:28:51 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I have to raise an eyebrow to the poster who mentioned something about "finger" gestures- I don't believe the cameras and firmware in their current state do not have the resolution or processing power to accomplish something like this. However, I hope I'm wrong!


They actually have the resolution and processing power, most of which is done on the kinect device itself. The problem is (was) bandwidth. That's a lot of data to shove over USB and it was kept deliberately throttled. Further testing has shown the bandwidth isn't a problem so they'll be doing a firmware update to turn off the throttling.

And BTW (oldschool gamer here too) some of those games are FUN. Kinect adventures not so much...definate shovleware.


Is there an editor around?
By piroroadkill on 1/7/2011 5:20:12 AM , Rating: 3
Kinect ' s? Really?




By jabber on 1/8/2011 1:49:56 PM , Rating: 2
I reckon the Kinect was a market tester for the next console from MS.

This control system is a major something, MS has in mind for its next gen console and so has released this as a 'taster' version.

If Kinect was a total flop they would abandon it and maybe delay going into full development mode for the next console.

As its been a big success I reckon a team deep in MS have now been given the go-ahead to go full steam on the next console with Kinect Mk.2 (more like the full natal package).

I reckon an announcement this year. As for the next console name? Xbox Kinect?




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