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Print 37 comment(s) - last by Cascading Dark.. on Nov 7 at 7:45 PM
Microsoft gives the cold shoulder to accessory makers

It looks as though Microsoft wants the wireless accessory market all to itself when it comes to Xbox 360. Whereas Sony's PlayStation 3 uses the Bluetooth standard to pair up wireless devices, Microsoft uses a proprietary wireless technology that it has no intention -- at the moment -- to open up to others.

The developers for Guitar Hero have already butted heads with Microsoft over the issue and the end result was a guitar controller that is tethered via a USB cable instead of wirelessly. "Well, that's a Microsoft issue. Their wireless technology is proprietary...so they aren't allowing 3rd party manufacturers to make anything at the moment....so until they allow us to do so, we aren't able to," said Red Octane's Bryan Lam.

Interestingly enough, there is no mention of using a USB dongle to provide wireless functionality for the controller. Red Octane used a wireless dongle for the PlayStation 2 version of Guitar Hero so is it unexpected to think that the same couldn’t be done for the Xbox 360?

That being said, while Microsoft blocks others from releasing wireless peripherals, it’s wasting no time ushering out its Wireless Headset, Wireless Racing Wheel and Wireless Gaming Wheel.

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Regret
By BrassMonkey on 11/6/2006 11:37:22 AM , Rating: 3
I'm regretting my 360 purchase more every day now.

I can't play xvid files off my pc on the 360.
I can't upgrade the 20gig HD by replacing it with a larger 2.5" drive.
I can only play online if I fork out 60 a year.
and now there will be some awkward looking dongle sticking out of the USB port if I want a wireless guitar or dance pad.




RE: Regret
By Hemipower on 11/6/2006 1:06:48 PM , Rating: 2
you also have to add the noise
the heat that comes out of the system
you cant use the usb port for hard drives or flash for saves
awkward heavy power brick
awkward connection for optical cable
no digital video connection
cant upgrade the dvd drive
and the red ring of death. ( i have had three die on me already)


RE: Regret
By epsilonparadox on 11/6/2006 1:44:42 PM , Rating: 1
I have a launch 360 and I don't have any of the problems you're saying. My console rarely gets warm to the touch even after playing for 10-12 hours straight. Maybe if people didn't put their systems in an enclosed space with limited airflow, this wouldn't be such an issue. Which console in the past allowed you to upgrade the dvd drive legally or connect usb drives for saves? Most people who buy consoles for gaming don't care about this. They're usually teeny boppers who force their parents to buy the accessories.


RE: Regret
By regnez on 11/6/2006 6:34:33 PM , Rating: 3
just about everything you said there didn't make much sense.

you say that it is a console so people should not be allowed to legally upgrade the drive, but this is supposed to be next gen stuff, and as such it should bring new benefits.


RE: Regret
By regnez on 11/6/2006 6:43:47 PM , Rating: 2
accidentally hit post before I finished my comment there.

on top of not being able to upgrade the drive, the 360 is indeed a gaming console, and should be able to fit into an entertainment center with limited airflow and not overheat. I would be pretty upset if the tv in my entertainment center overheated.

and the last thing: the actual age of the average gamer is early thirties, not "teeny boppers" as you say. and the people I know with a 360 do care about upgrading their console with whatever accessories they see fit, not only with overpriced Microsoft stuff.


RE: Regret
By Hemipower on 11/6/2006 8:15:48 PM , Rating: 2
I have a core 360 which has not failed on me but it still gets extremly loud and hot! my newest 360 is quiter than the core but just as hot. i know some people still have their launch systems but to say that it rarely gets hot to the touch is bull. All 4 premiums ive owned have gotten hot and when i pull the game out of the drive its a few degrees from catching on fire.

No previous system allows upgrades or usb for saves but this is the next gen like regenz said and should bring new things other than just graphics.

by the way my two systems sit on the floor on top of a glass shelf with nothing but open air around it, i dont store it a entertainment center. and if wanted too i should be able too! why should i have to limit my play area because of a systems inability to perform like it should. i play my gamecube, ps two slim, original ps2 with a harddrive in it, original halo edition xbox all without the problems this 360 has.


RE: Regret
By epsilonparadox on 11/6/2006 9:42:30 PM , Rating: 2
the OP was talking about upgrading the dvd drive. MS isn't going to release a DIY kit to upgrade an internal drive and neither would sony. Next-gen is about gameplay and for some, graphics not "OOH lets see if I can take this bad boy apart and build my own pc." You want a computer to upgrade at your whim then you should buy a PS3 because Crazy Ken has told us numerous times that the PS3 isn't a console, its a computer.


RE: Regret
By epsilonparadox on 11/6/2006 1:50:54 PM , Rating: 2
Why did you buy a 360? Did you not know that the total experience revolves around Xbox Live? At what point did you miss that fact in the last 4 years? By the way, if you have an Media Center PC, you can play xvid files to your hearts content.


RE: Regret
By Circle T on 11/6/2006 2:12:11 PM , Rating: 2
"...and now there will be some awkward looking dongle sticking out of the USB port if I want a wireless guitar or dance pad."

But that "awkward looking dongle" will match perfectly to the actions and motions of the "awkward looking dongle" on the other end using said devices.

I find it hard to believe that someone playing those games REALLY cares about how something looks. Those games are a blast, but you can't help but look like an ass when playing them. So, how your console looks should be the least of your worries.

And, where do you live that you are paying $60 a year for XBL?? Its only $50 for me, or less if you buy the packs in stores. I just bought the XBL Vision camera pack for $70. For that $70, I got the camera, another headset for my 2nd controller, another year of XBL, and Uno. You should do some shopping, because $60 a year just for XBL is too much.


RE: Regret
By ViperROhb34 on 11/6/2006 3:19:46 PM , Rating: 1
"Weird" that you say you can't upgrade your hardrive.. since I've upgraded mine to a 60gig ... You can easily ghost the drive off your pc.. it copies everything onto the clean drive..of course Xbox360 doenst need one in ways PS3 does. I mean its become more clear that PS3 will use HD space to counteract the slower load times due to PS3 slower reading speed.

Also.. I played Xvid/dvix files on my 360.. I have Vista and as long as you have the codecs on your pc.. You can play those files over media player on Vista..

If you can't afford 50-60 a year on online play then what are you doing buying a 360 ? You surely won't find owning a PS3 any more "Affordable" .. A Playstation will no longer be a everyday average Joe kind of purchase. Its simply our of many peoples price range. You can argue apples to apples all you want.. but price of entry is the real issue.. not features.. Its one reason Why Wii might actually beat out PS3 this time.. and they are using 'inferior' technology compared to either PS3 or Xbox360.. Yet people playing 480P on regular TV's ( still most of the world ) won't notice much difference since you can't really appreciate Xbox 360's or PS3's High Def graphics unless you actually own a HD tv like me .. Im sure many here have HD.. but sorry most of the world doesnt care about HD-DVD or BLuray either..


RE: Regret
By daftrok on 11/6/2006 4:02:47 PM , Rating: 2
As I have said before, the 360 is cheaper however the accessories will lead to a total nut shot. However, you can upgrade your 20 GB hard drive. With the recent firmware update, I was able to play my videos, music and see my photos. Though I couldn't play xvid files, you can simply put that in a DVD format and play it on your 360 (which, thankfully, you do not need the remote to play movies anymore). The 360, though a step down feature wise from the ps3, is slowly moving its way up the ladder. So fear not, BrassMonkey and fellow 360 owners, your purchase, though most unfortunate, will become more of a smart decision as time progresses.


RE: Regret
By ViperROhb34 on 11/6/2006 4:06:25 PM , Rating: 2
You can't play Dvix or Xvid over media player from Xp
(recent update that allows this)

BUT YOU CAN play Dvix, Xvid On Xbox 360 over Media Center in Vista, Or Media Center Xp ..


RE: Regret
By epsilonparadox on 11/6/2006 4:22:52 PM , Rating: 2
and now Macs can connect to the 360 too!!!

http://www.nullriver.com/index/products/connect360




RE: Regret
By Circle T on 11/6/2006 4:46:15 PM , Rating: 2
"So fear not, BrassMonkey and fellow 360 owners, your purchase, though most unfortunate, will become more of a smart decision as time progresses."

My 360 was a perfectly good purchase at launch when I got mine, and it still is. Unlike most other people here complaining about movie files, HDD size and other things like that, I just play games on my game console. And in that regard, it has many good games that I enjoy. All the extra stuff, while nice, is very unused by me. Games for me on my game console.

The PS3, on the other hand, would NOT be a good purchase for me. Sure it has a host of great extra fluff features. Those are nice and all, but I won't be using them. Its just a game console to me. And the games it has at launch, and for roughly 6 months, if not more, are not ones that I want to play.

But, fear not. Eventually the PS3's price, though most unfortunate, might be worth it to some people as time progresses. But not me.


ms and monopolism, strange bedfellows
By rika13 on 11/6/06, Rating: 0
By tuteja1986 on 11/6/2006 8:51:46 AM , Rating: 3
Its an security issue... 3rd Party can still make wireless device they just need to have their own receiver. If Activation wants to sell a wireless guitar they just need to do that same thing they did with PS2 wireless controller ;( .


RE: ms and monopolism, strange bedfellows
By pnyffeler on 11/6/2006 9:00:13 AM , Rating: 3
The trick with monopolies and anti-trust is that you first have to show that the actor actually has a monopoly. With Sony and Nintendo having large market shares, it's unlikely they'll get sued. Even if they do, as long as they have a reasonable excuse for acting the way they did, then there won't be an anti-trust problem.


By rushfan2006 on 11/6/2006 9:38:31 AM , Rating: 3
Agreed. Since in the console industry you have big players in Nintendo and Sony, its not going to be so easy to call MS a monopoly as it was in the OS case.

Now generally speaking, I think its silly to lock out 3rd party accessories...if they are concerned about security or quality, just make a "MS certified" program or something...the condition being the 3rd party stuff has to be MS certified first or no go. That's all.

Anything that makes your product more popular and successful, even by supporting products from other companies that work with YOUR product....has the potential to ultimately drive up more sales for YOUR product.

I simply don't see the down side to this for a business.



By deeznuts on 11/6/2006 1:01:39 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
The trick with monopolies and anti-trust is that you first have to show that the actor actually has a monopoly. With Sony and Nintendo having large market shares, it's unlikely they'll get sued. Even if they do, as long as they have a reasonable excuse for acting the way they did, then there won't be an anti-trust problem.


I'm not arguing about the merits of an anti-trust suit, just pointing out that a monopoly is not the only reason for an anti-trust suit, and I think monopolies are quite rare.

Anti-competitive practices as defined by the law are reasons for an anti-trust suit. This include predatory practices (like pricing stuff so cheap to knock out companies) and price collusion, etc.


By ObscureCaucasian on 11/6/2006 9:03:46 AM , Rating: 2
I remember reading this way back around the time the 360 was released, back then the plan was to keep the wireless market to itself until after holiday 2007, so it'll happen...... eventually.


Greedy MS
By kextyn on 11/6/2006 10:00:20 AM , Rating: 2
MS is being really greedy with this.

But what if the title had read Sony instead of MS? There would be several posts already bashing them for being unfair and greedy and saying their stuff is too expensive.




RE: Greedy MS
By Mazzer on 11/6/2006 10:07:28 AM , Rating: 2
Why is it greed? Because other companies like nintendo and sony let 3rd parties make devices? Thats a poor excuse. Its microsofts console and noone has to buy it. When we are talking about computers you pretty much have to buy windows unless you want mac and many don't so it should be open to let people ad 3rd party support. Consoles are a different ball game and microsoft can do as they wish with this one.


RE: Greedy MS
By crystal clear on 11/6/2006 10:39:47 AM , Rating: 2
"microsoft can do as they wish with this one. "

Certainly in the EU this statement/attitude will get MS into
trouble.

MS is a technology company & as such can license its wireless technology & make money out of it.So cannot say it stands to loose by allowing 3rd party accessories in the ball game.
MS has the financial & marketing power to compete with 3rd
party accessories in the market.

So why block 3rd parties

Let there be free competition-Let the consumer benefit by free competition.






RE: Greedy MS
By ViperROhb34 on 11/6/2006 3:31:07 PM , Rating: 2
I doubt seriously that Microsofts current stance on its wireless tech will get them in any kind of trouble at all..

It would be a different ballgame if 3rd party companies didn't already make ( or weren't allowed ) to make the many items already being made for 360 or Orginal Xbox.. I mean 3rd party Co's are making memory cards.. headphones.. data transfer kits.. controllers.. Steering Wheels.. charging units.. Becuase they aren't allowed to make a wireless version of a controller that they ALREADY make won't get MS in much trouble..


RE: Greedy MS
By Hemipower on 11/6/2006 12:58:02 PM , Rating: 2
thats the point if you dont want to buy windows you can buy a mac. there is no difference between that and buying a 360 and a ps2 or gamecube or ps3 and wii in the next two weeks. you make no point as there is always a different route to go. and its microsofts console crap is upsurd, if that was sony everyone would be bashing it like crazy. i dont buy third party stuff as it is usually crap anyway except for some logitech controls but the guitar hero is a must wireless.


RE: Greedy MS
By ViperROhb34 on 11/6/2006 10:08:38 PM , Rating: 2
I feel people bash all companies, including Nintendo.. but mostly for different reasons. I feel Sony would have less gripes if they didnt try and sell a do it all machine for 600 dollars.. yes.. its got more options.. yes Bluray is a nice idea.. but we don't all drive 2006 BMW's either.. I know a few single parent families who have PS2's .. bought Xbox 360's barely - that don't care about High def movies.. they won't spend the money to upgrade. There are alot of American and European familes making 30-40k a year feeding 2 or 3 kids .. a 300 dollar game console is hard.. a 600 dollar console is asking too much of those people.


Accessories
By Oo Pea oO on 11/6/2006 12:50:49 PM , Rating: 2
Microsoft are making a loss on every Xbox 360 they sell, the profit on accessories helps offset that cost. They've got to make money somehow.




RE: Accessories
By Hemipower on 11/6/2006 1:16:05 PM , Rating: 2
yea its called selling a game foe 60 dollars when they sell for 30 on the pc. now mutiply that by a couple million per title and theres your profit. if they were really losing so much money they wouldn't have stayed in the game. trust me. they are not the little poor microsoft they have to make money somehow little baby thing. plus they are not losing as much on each console as everbody first thought.


RE: Accessories
By epsilonparadox on 11/6/2006 1:57:02 PM , Rating: 2
You're over simplifying the profits and I think the publisher gets most of that money not the console maker. The fact that they've been in the red for the last five years and they're predicting another loss next year, I think they can afford to lose some money.


I could care less if MS keeps it proprietary
By PAPutzback on 11/6/2006 9:18:15 AM , Rating: 2
As long as their product works well.




By Vertigo101 on 11/6/2006 9:27:34 AM , Rating: 2
I don't think that's really the issue at hand. Microsoft isn't likely to make a wireless guitar controller, so why not let Red Octane make one?


Please tell me no one is surprised by this
By encryptkeeper on 11/6/2006 10:35:07 AM , Rating: 2
Interestingly enough, there is no mention of using a USB dongle to provide wireless functionality for the controller. Red Octane used a wireless dongle for the PlayStation 2 version of Guitar Hero so is it unexpected to think that the same couldn’t be done for the Xbox 360?

Why? C'mon DailyTech, one of the biggest offerings for the 360 is the push to go totally wireless. Who the hell wants to play a wired guitar if they have the option for wireless anyway. This stubborn crap is just another reason I hate Microsoft.




By deeznuts on 11/6/2006 1:00:06 PM , Rating: 2
Well that's what he's saying. A usb dongle to provide WIRELESS functionality, not a wired guitar.


Too bad.
By FightingChance on 11/6/2006 10:48:24 AM , Rating: 2
Logitech made a pair of excellent wireless controllers for PS2 and Xbox - it'd be nice to have an alternative when it comes to control.




RE: Too bad.
By Cascading Darkness on 11/7/2006 7:45:19 PM , Rating: 2
Cheers! I own both and love them. They keep getting better with each new version. Up to +80 hours (real world) with 2 AA w/vibration!


corporations rule
By dever on 11/6/2006 2:13:49 PM , Rating: 4
There seems to be a large group of comments that forget that Microsoft is a business. This is/was simply a business decision. Time will tell whether the decision was good or bad. It's irrational to apply labels such as "unfair" or "greedy" to business decisions regarding the businesses own products. The market, if left unhindered, will determine the wisdom of this decision. And, freedom in the market will benefit the consumer in the end.




Open up & let in partners.
By crystal clear on 11/6/2006 10:01:16 AM , Rating: 2
Jon Lech Johansen’s reverse engineering technique could solve the problem,just the way he did with Apple.

MS certainly knows of this guys existence called So Sue Me..
It would be in MS interest to open up & let in partners than block them out.Plus it doesnt help from a selling point of view for Xbox.

MS should reconsider its decision.




"It seems as though my state-funded math degree has failed me. Let the lashings commence." -- DailyTech Editor-in-Chief Kristopher Kubicki











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