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Xbox 360 could one day support Blu-ray Disc via an add-on

The current way for Xbox 360 to watch HD DVD
Microsoft hedging its bets on HD DVD, ponders switch to Blu-ray

When comparing the latest consoles, Sony constantly makes reference to its decision to include a Blu-ray Disc player with every PlayStation 3, while pointing out that Microsoft’s Xbox 360 utilizes the comparatively less spacious DVD9 format.

Sony is so confident in its Blu-ray-enabled console that the company has stated that putting Blu-ray in PS3 will be the smartest decision made for the games machine. Microsoft Europe’s Senior Regional Director, Neil Thompson doesn’t think so, saying that Blu-ray does not give Sony’s console any advantage over the Xbox 360.

“Do I want to make people pay £200 extra for a machine with discs that have storage space I don’t need? My answer’s no, I don’t need to do that today,” Thompson said to GamesIndustry.biz. “And I don’t think I’m going to need to do that for quite a while.”

Microsoft is on the other side of the high-def fence as an exclusive supporter of HD DVD, and some consumers were expecting the recently announced Xbox 360 Elite to include the high-definition format drive as built-in hardware. The Xbox 360 Elite will ship with the original DVD9 specification, and Microsoft will continue to offer HD DVD movie functionality through the $199 add-on accessory.

“I’m not sure the market has moved to high definition [movies] yet,” Thompson said. “And if and when it does, then the way that we’ve constructed the offering we’ve made means we’ll be able to go whichever way we want.”

Thompson’s comment alludes to the possibility that the Xbox 360 may support Blu-ray Disc media should the format become unquestionably victorious. Speaking to the BBC, Thompson said, “Whatever format wins it is highly likely we will offer a solution. The only debate is if you want to watch Blu-ray movies and pay the extra money for that feature. We prefer to offer the consumer choice.”

An analysts quoted by the Financial Times believes that the decision not to include HD DVD with the Xbox 360 Elite is a blow to Toshiba, who is oddly given sole credit for the HD DVD format. “I think, if nothing else, this is an acknowledgement that Blu-ray is going to win [the standards war],” said Michael Pachter, video games analyst at Wedbush Morgan Securities. “It would have been a costly mistake to build it into the hardware if HD-DVD loses and I think Microsoft sees this as an unacceptable gamble.”

Thompson concludes in speaking with GamesIndustry.biz, “This is about the architecture of the hardware. With the PS3 you’ve got a big, heavy truck that requires a big, heavy engine. With Xbox you’ve got a much more nimble box that uses software in the architecture of the box in a much more nimble way … That’s the difference between us and PlayStation – we didn’t have a need to develop a really complicated engine to get Blu-ray players into the market. We wanted to deliver HD gaming. Judge us on what we’ve done.”

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MS was right in thier decision
By sapiens74 on 3/29/2007 8:22:33 PM , Rating: 5
To not include HD on the Elite and offer it as an addon. They can just as easily add a blue ray player and not get involved in the format war.

Which technically speaking, maybe at some point you could have the 360 with both BluRay and HD hooked up to the same box




RE: MS was right in thier decision
By Avalon on 3/29/2007 8:34:22 PM , Rating: 5
I agree in that it was a smart move not to include an HD-DVD player built into the Elite model...however, I feel it was a stupid move to price the unit at $479. That's too close to Sony's base PS3 model.

Their best move would have been to eliminate the $300 core model, make the premium model $300, and price the elite at $400.


RE: MS was right in thier decision
By Brandon Hill (blog) on 3/29/2007 8:41:08 PM , Rating: 1
That would be almost TOO easy and would certainly guarantee a Microsoft victory this round against Sony. That coupled with an external HD DVD or Blu-ray drive would make the console a formidable weapon.

But I don't think that Microsoft is quite at that point yet.


RE: MS was right in thier decision
By mendocinosummit on 3/29/2007 8:52:22 PM , Rating: 1
Could Sony prevent MS from producing or using Bluray on the Xbox so it could not compete with the PS3 by not granting them rights? Or would they be happy to win the format war?


RE: MS was right in thier decision
By daftrok on 3/29/07, Rating: -1
RE: MS was right in thier decision
By sxr7171 on 3/29/2007 11:06:16 PM , Rating: 2
Are you saying that the EE performs the upscaling to 1080p?


RE: MS was right in thier decision
By melgross on 3/30/2007 12:53:55 AM , Rating: 4
Sony is a $70 billion a year company. While the games division may contribute over half of their profits, in a good year for it, sales are a fraction of Sony's yearly sales.


RE: MS was right in thier decision
By Tyler 86 on 4/1/2007 6:06:05 AM , Rating: 2
Why'd this guy get rated down?

He is correct in saying the PS3 *can* upscale to 1080p, heck it can scale up or down anything without a designated hardware scaler with little overhead.

He's saying the EE chip on current PS3s won't have to perform upscaling for itself to 1080p should it be desired, as the Cell & RSX could do that work for it...

I don't know much about consoles, I don't own either, but as a hardware and programming enthusiast, I don't see what he said that got him rated down...

His statement that the PS3 is 1/2 of Sony's business could be simply pointing at the high price Sony paid to put the PS3 through development...


By mindless1 on 4/3/2007 1:54:13 PM , Rating: 2
Comments are rated down for many less altruistic reasons like fanboi disagreement or those with special interests. I'm more interested in what the highest AND lowest rated posts have to say more than most inbetween.


RE: MS was right in thier decision
By OxBow on 3/30/2007 9:24:08 AM , Rating: 4
I don't think that Sony can prevent MS from creating a BR add-on drive. While Sony is a principal in the BR consortium, they are not the only member of that consortium. Also, BR is a public standard, so if MS wants to, they can buy into this.

I find it interesting that IBM, Sony and Toshiba are in partnership to develop the Cell, while Sony and Toshiba are at the same time locking horns over HD-DVD and BR. Strange bedfellows any way you look at it.


RE: MS was right in thier decision
By sxr7171 on 3/29/2007 9:08:49 PM , Rating: 2
It's so obvious that a nice price cut would basically clinch the victory for MS that it seems that they aren't doing it just to challenge themselves for it would be too easy a victory. I can't see any other rational reason why they wouldn't just cut prices on the 360 when they lost billions on the original Xbox and said that was to get a foothold in the market, when they could today lose just peanuts on each console to unquestionably dominate the console market.


RE: MS was right in thier decision
By cochy on 3/29/2007 11:21:20 PM , Rating: 4
quote:
just to challenge themselves for it would be too easy a victory


Right. Sounds like very rational corporate thinking. Let's challenge ourselves. Does that sound like something shareholders will want? Because it is actually illegal for a publicly owned company to not put shareholder's profit above all else in their decision making process. They obviously have good reasons for not cutting prices.


RE: MS was right in thier decision
By sxr7171 on 3/30/2007 12:21:20 AM , Rating: 3
Yeah and what? The cost to make a premium console is around $330 these days. They lost billions on the original, and they could own the console market for mere millions. They could saturate the market at a $300 price for the premium. The installed base would grow like no other console before it and developers will want to tap that base. They could profit like bandits.


By bplewis24 on 3/30/2007 12:37:24 AM , Rating: 3
You're forgetting that the console leader in terms of current sales month-by-month is the Nintendo Wii. And even if the Premium 360 was $300 ($350 is a more realistic figure), the Wii would still have a price advantage over it. And keep in mind the Wii can drop it's price at any time because they are already profiting off of every console sold.

Brandon


RE: MS was right in thier decision
By Zelvek on 3/30/2007 2:36:37 AM , Rating: 2
More than likely MS will make a price cut soon but one right now would not likely make a big difference for them. The big console sales are during the holidays so thats when a price cut will make the most impact for them. For now they are probably just trying to make as much money as they can off of each sale.


RE: MS was right in thier decision
By bldckstark on 3/30/07, Rating: -1
By Seemonkeyscanfly on 3/30/2007 3:49:57 PM , Rating: 5
And with that thought you will never make middle management. First you must understand the stock holders are the business. No investors, no money to run the business, no business. The executives really do not make any decision that pops the value of a stock. Long terms plans they carry out will and may affect the value, but not short terms. Board members can have a little bit of a “pop” affect, example when Bill Gates makes a public speech the value can change from his direct actions, however he needs to notify NASDAQ at least 30 days in advanced of the sale(or buy) of any stock. He also has limits on the percentage he can buy/sell at one time and has to give reason for his sale of the stock. The guys you are bad mouthing live under a much tougher set of rules then the average Joe; they can not just leave a company. So the last thing they want to do is something that is going to purposely in the long term bring down the value of the company…Why because it makes them look bad (example: the guy who tried to replace Mike Dell), and brings down their personal value, money out of their wallet – since they can not just sell their stock when it’s at a high point. They are making decision on what will keep the business open, not will make the entry level guy happy…though they’d like to see him happy, you get more work out of a happy employee.


RE: MS was right in thier decision
By Rampage on 3/29/2007 11:09:12 PM , Rating: 1
Why would they elminate the core model??? That makes no sense to me.

Microsofts advantage is that they have a very low cost/price SKU with the core with no blue-laser and no HDD, no wireless.. just a gaming box that they can cut the HECK out of price-wise when the 360 goes 65nm.

PS3 will NEVER be able to match this core 360 at price.. or really, gaming performance.. from what we've seen so far.

A core 360 can run Gears of War, which is better than anything I've experienced on the pricey PS3.. ?

Now, KEEPING the core and dropping the price to $199 would be the true punishment.. Sony wont be able to hang with future 360 price drops without subsidizing the loss so much they'll wish they never used PS3 as a vehicle for BluRay.

This console war is decided, anyone with any sense can see the 360 won.
The HD standard war is decided, BluRay won.
Thats pretty much how the dice have fallen.


RE: MS was right in thier decision
By cochy on 3/29/2007 11:37:04 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
This console war is decided, anyone with any sense can see the 360 won.


Well you're right about Bluray. The console war is far from over. Wait a year and see how they stack up against each other. Remember the PS3 basically has zip content now. The 360 has a year's worth. Wait until the PS3 actually has some content to show for itself.

Sony is in no trouble at all. Everyone here seems to forget that the PS3 trounces the Xbox 360 in Japan. Plus in Europe I'd say Sony is more popular than MS. It's a global market friend.


RE: MS was right in thier decision
By sxr7171 on 3/30/2007 12:22:20 AM , Rating: 2
With 7 cores to deal with, that'll take a while.


RE: MS was right in thier decision
By melgross on 3/30/2007 12:58:57 AM , Rating: 1
So, you and some others here think that MS should lose even more money on each unit they sell then they do now?

Wasn't the $1.2 billion loss they had with the older model every year, enough?

Should they lose even more now? How does this help them?

Are you aware that some large investors have already been arguing for MS to leave the game industry because of this?


RE: MS was right in thier decision
By cochy on 3/30/2007 1:22:15 AM , Rating: 2
You replied to my post. But I hardly think that.


RE: MS was right in thier decision
By ajfink on 3/30/2007 11:04:28 AM , Rating: 1
Microsoft is currently turning a profit on every console sold. They are no longer losing money due to significant production cost reductions.

In America the 360 has already beaten the PS3. In Japan, the 360 has already done much better than the original Xbox, which is a sort of victory in itself. The same goes for Europe.


RE: MS was right in thier decision
By Zandros on 3/30/2007 12:51:37 PM , Rating: 3
I'm sorry, but I haven't seen anything to back that claim up, just hearsay. Got any sources?

Perhaps they're selling for more than the hardware costs, but assembly and promotion costs a bit too.


RE: MS was right in thier decision
By deeznuts on 3/30/2007 1:22:41 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
In America the 360 has already beaten the PS3. In Japan, the 360 has already done much better than the original Xbox, which is a sort of victory in itself. The same goes for Europe.

I just saw some numbers a couple of days ago comparing Xbox to Xbox 360, where it was shown the 360 was actually selling slower then the Xbox in their respective timelines.


RE: MS was right in thier decision
By 9nails on 4/2/2007 11:27:51 PM , Rating: 2
In my narrow wisdom on this subject, I'd relate the lost console sales to the fact that Xbox 360 had a crappy launch and that HDTV is not widely adopted in US households. With the latter being more important to the situation at hand. It should not reflect on the product as being a poor performer. I know a few gamers who won't want to pay a premium for content that they cannot use.


RE: MS was right in thier decision
By cochy on 3/30/07, Rating: -1
RE: MS was right in thier decision
By Alexvrb on 3/31/2007 2:52:34 PM , Rating: 2
If the 360 is a cheap gaming PC, then the PS3 is a not-quite-as-cheap gaming PC with a blu-ray drive. Personally I don't see anything wrong with that in either case, because the only thing "PC" about either unit is that they are indeed computers optimized for gaming, so what's your point? The only one of the three that "innovates" hardware-wise is the Wii and its chosen method of input, but then again it lacks in other hardware aspects.

The real innovation comes from the software developers, and the PS3 is the one that fails to impress in that category, when compared to the Wii and 360.


RE: MS was right in thier decision
By masher2 (blog) on 3/30/2007 10:14:43 AM , Rating: 4
> "The HD standard war is decided, BluRay won"

Err, HD-DVD and BD combined are still being outsold by VHS tapes of all things. The format war hasn't even begun in earnest, much less been won. The total market penetration is far too small to declare either side a victor, and will remain so for at least the next year.


RE: MS was right in thier decision
By cochy on 3/30/2007 11:36:50 AM , Rating: 2
It's not going to get to that point. I don't think the studios are too pleased about that prospect and would much rather just support one format and be done with the other. Call it a beta test if you will. It looks like hd-dvd is gonna be the one dumped. BD has much more backing as it stands.


RE: MS was right in thier decision
By masher2 (blog) on 3/30/2007 11:47:10 AM , Rating: 2
Currently, 21 different studios have releases on HD-DVD. 20 have them on Blu-Ray.


RE: MS was right in thier decision
By cochy on 3/30/2007 12:01:52 PM , Rating: 2
So if I said BD had more corporate support/Hollywood support, you'd disagree with that statement?

I'm talking purely Hollywood here and Universal is the only major exclusive backer of hd-dvd. As opposed to 5 exclusive bd backers. The rest are on the fence. I don't know what kind of commitments Universal has to hd-dvd but once they make the smart business decision and support bd then hd-dvd is finished, since there will be no point in supplying two different formats to the market.


RE: MS was right in thier decision
By masher2 (blog) on 3/30/2007 12:19:25 PM , Rating: 1
The "exclusive" issue is a red herring; what matter is how many studios support a format, not how many support it exclusively.

The fact remains that neither format has decent support from any studio at the moment. The vast majority of new releases are DVD-only, skipping both HD-DVD and BD. That won't change until both player and disc mastering costs drop substantially. The first format to get a cheap player and disc costs down to near-parity with DVD will win. Until then...the war hasn't even really begun.


RE: MS was right in thier decision
By cochy on 3/30/2007 10:58:34 PM , Rating: 1
I guess I really disagree with your assessment here, because I think "exclusive" is exactly the whole issue here. As I've mentioned, why would the Hollywood studio want to support two? It's simply less expensive and efficient to only have one format. That being said, Universal is the only studio supporting hd-dvd and if they decide to support bd, then all studios will either be supporting two formats or decide to support one for the obvious reason I'll stated. That one format will obviously be BD.


RE: MS was right in thier decision
By masher2 (blog) on 3/31/2007 12:16:52 PM , Rating: 4
> "I think "exclusive" is exactly the whole issue here. "

From the consumer standpoint, they don't care about studios...they care about releases. What matters is the total number of releases. And-- for both formats at present-- that number is abysmally low. Neither format is winning...they're both losing.

> "why would the Hollywood studio want to support two? It's simply less expensive and efficient to only have one format"

They'll support where the market is. For ten years, they've supported DVD and VHS...because both formats were selling well. If BD and HD-DVD sell well, both will be supported, indefinitely if it comes to that. If HD-DVD predominates, then all studios will carry it...eventually even the Sony-owned ones.

Nothing has changed studio-wise since before BD and HD-DVD were released. By your logic, the format war was already decided before a single player was even released. I understand that you likely own a PS3 and are thus rooting hard for the format, but the facts don't support naming a victor. Either format could eventually win, they could both remain indefinitely...or they could both wind up folding. Its safe to say that neither of them are doing anywhere near as well as originally planned, so that final scenario isn't as unlikely as you might think.


RE: MS was right in thier decision
By cochy on 4/1/2007 12:26:15 AM , Rating: 1
Now is exactly the time when the studios should decide between the two hd formats. Before adoption of either one is too high. If the studios were to back BD now and drop HD-DVD then all content would be on BD. Consumers would be happy because there's no format war and lots of content. BD hardware prices would come down over time like it did with DVD and the world is merry. You shouldn't compare DVD and VHS because VHS was entrenched in the market for over a decade when DVD came around. HD-DVD and BD are two different sides of the same coin. It's just like DVD and DIVX, remember DIVX? Studios and consumers want a decision.

No I don't own a PS3. Yes, I did predict in my own mind who would come out ahead here and it was BD because they have so much more corporate support. I also think it's being marketed better. The two formats will end up costing about the same over time, so price won't be an issue for long.


RE: MS was right in thier decision
By bkm32 on 4/5/2007 2:35:26 PM , Rating: 2
The format that has a 6 month exclusive of the entire "Star Wars" saga and the "Lord of the Rings" trilogy will win, especially if LotR were bundled with (or a rebate or some kind of promotion).

Anyway, these are the highest grossing films of all time (collectively) at the box office and at home (VHS included for SW). The fanboys will wet themselves once they see Yoda or Gandalf in their full HD glory (the way Mr. Lucas and Mr. Jackson intended).

Remember when Yoda pulled out his lightsaber (not a metaphor, sickos) using the force? How about when the 50K+ orc army besieged Helm's Keep? Picture it in HD.

Maybe even throw in an E.T. bundle. It worked for Reces' Pieces.


RE: MS was right in thier decision
By gr8ezekiel on 3/30/2007 2:51:29 PM , Rating: 2
gears of war came out a year after the 360 launched...

lets see what games will look like for the ps3 in the same time period.


RE: MS was right in thier decision
By bkm32 on 4/5/2007 2:25:13 PM , Rating: 2
I don't own a PS3 or X360 (but plan to get an X360), but I have to agree here. In fact, "Lair" and "Heavenly Sword" already look spectacular and are on par or better than "GoW", IMHO.

I don't want any of the new systems to fail. That would hurt the industry, but it is obvious that the games get better as the developers mature in their knowledge of each system. Case in point, the "God of War 2 (PS2)" "Resident Evil 4" (GC), and "Madden NFL 07 (Xbox1)".


RE: MS was right in thier decision
By Belard on 3/30/2007 6:09:23 AM , Rating: 1
Adding the HD Drive would have complicated the XB360.
A) Let's say it adds $180 to the cost of the $480 Elite system. Price would be $660 or higer.

B) Would the HD-DVD break the copy-protection?

C) Adding the HD-DVD drive would have meant a mobo-change within the XB360 itself - requiring more parts, rasing the price quite a bit.

I do love the M$ rep's statement: "The only debate is if you want to watch Blu-ray movies and pay the extra money for that feature. We prefer to offer the consumer choice.”

err, if M$ was giving the customer a "choice" - they would be making a BR-Drive as well. And IF another company wanted to make a BR Drive for the XB360 - would M$ stop them. So in the end, M$ is not giving the customer a choice.

As someone else has posted "Would Sony stop M$ for making a BR drive" - quick answer = NO. Sony would make money for every BR drive sold. And it helps to nail another coffin into HD-DVD. Both formats have 290 titles (not including porn = HD-DVD) but thats is weak compared to about 60,000 titles for DVD in the USA alone.

So... how cool does a black 360-elite look next to an off-white HD-DVD drive?


By Lord Evermore on 4/1/2007 6:27:25 AM , Rating: 2
A) They're making profit on the changes with the Elite, meaning the stuff they've done to it didn't cost them 80 dollars, so they could cut the margin a bit there. They probably have priced it such that it actually reduces the loss they take on each unit compared to the others. Plus, if the HD-DVD external box costs 180 dollars, putting an internal drive into the Elite would have cost far less. They're certainly making a profit on the external unit, and you also would subtract the cost of the DVD9 drive since it's a swap although that would be a minor difference.

Even if they had to bump the price up to 500 dollars or a tiny bit more, having the HD-DVD drive included would make it a better value proposition compared to the cheap PS3, moreso than $480 without HD-DVD. With HDMI and a huge hard drive, plus HD, it'd be quite good competition.

B) Only as much as having an HD-DVD drive in your PC would break copy protection.

C) Huh? Did you need to upgrade your mainboard to go from a CDROM to DVDROM? No. They're just IDE or SATA drives. Interfaces don't change, connectors don't change, even BIOSes don't likely need to be changed, it's just an ATAPI device as far as the chipset is concerned. You don't even really need software changes to just read from different optical devices usually. The only thing needed would be software updates to support the HD-DVD content.

At this point, they are offering you choices, it's not a crime not to offer you every possible conceivable choice. You have a choice of paying extra for the HD-DVD feature or not. Later on if it turns out BD is a more popular format, you'll probably get the choice to buy that too. And nothing says they have to make their software work with 3rd-party hardware. They could have just as easily made things like the controllers require they be MS brand too, but they didn't. Do you even know if any other companies WANT to try to make an HD-DVD or BD drive for the 360? Maybe they considered it but decided it wasn't profitable enough.


RE: MS was right in thier decision
By someguy123 on 3/29/2007 8:37:31 PM , Rating: 2
well the downside to not using either HDDVD or blu-ray is that future games are limited to the DVD9 limit, which I believe can only hold 8gb. no developer would develope for an optional format. this is a decent amount of room for the majority of current games, but games like gears of war are already taking nearly a gb of space per level.


RE: MS was right in thier decision
By FITCamaro on 3/29/2007 9:00:27 PM , Rating: 3
The only games that will go past the DVD9 size limits are RPGs with lots of FMV. And it doesn't really matter to me if those are spread across multiple discs. And in a few years, when Blu-ray or HD-DVD has won, the drives will get way cheaper and the price of the addon will be dirt cheap. Then developers could produce a game for it if desired. Look at the N64. A few games required the Memory Expansion Pack and no one complained. If the drive addon is $35, and you need it to play a kickass game, I think you'll buy it.


RE: MS was right in thier decision
By kelmon on 3/30/2007 3:18:38 AM , Rating: 3
I could happily see the death of FMV in games. Firstly, that's time spent when I'm not actually doing anything and that's not what I bought the game for. If I wanted to watch a movie then, heck, I'd watch a movie. Secondly, the game engines these days are sufficiently capable of rendering a decent movie without needing to resort to video.

What tends to annoy me most about FMV is that it seems to be used as a way to fill a disk. Give the developers a high capacity disk and at least some of them, guaranteed, will feel compelled to try and fill it regardless as to whether this makes a better game or not.


RE: MS was right in thier decision
By OxBow on 3/30/2007 9:47:12 AM , Rating: 5
I disagree that only RPG's will crash into the DVD9 ceiling. I can easily see sandbox games constrained here also. Imagine a sandbox game using all the extra space on a BR disk to create a world much larger than anything we've seen before. You could easily create a sandbox the equivalent of Hawai instead of just Honolulu.

Some games will never use that much space, but GTA created an entirely new genre in the last generation. We can't know what new ideas are being bandied about in developers heads to take advantage of the new hardware. I think that you'll see several awesome games come out for the PS3 that can only be used on that system because they require libraries that won't fit on the Wii or 360.

They say that every army trains to fight the last war. This is obviously true for the 360. They designed a system that would have obliterated any of the previous consoles. The trouble is, the new generation of consoles changed tactics. MS made a fairly flexible machine that can be adapted to fit the new dynamics, but that means they have to play catch up and adapt. Hence, being open to adding a BR drive.

Sony is also fighting the last war, but their perspective on it is different. They looked at what the PS2 did to promote DVD's, combined with their media ownership, it was only natural that they wanted to replicate that sucess with the next step to higher capacity, high definition. They now have to play catch up also, but in different areas (motion controls, late to market issues, longevity issues).

Nintendo got creative, but still couldn't completely buck their corporate inertia. The Wii is innovative, new and fun, but did not push any technology envelopes. The system is doing very well right now, but it's long term future is in doubt and they are going to have to come up with something new very quickly, since the other consoles are much more flexible than theirs is.


RE: MS was right in thier decision
By deeznuts on 3/30/2007 1:25:50 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
The only games that will go past the DVD9 size limits are RPGs with lots of FMV. And it doesn't really matter to me if those are spread across multiple discs. And in a few years, when Blu-ray or HD-DVD has won, the drives will get way cheaper and the price of the addon will be dirt cheap. Then developers could produce a game for it if desired. Look at the N64. A few games required the Memory Expansion Pack and no one complained. If the drive addon is $35, and you need it to play a kickass game, I think you'll buy it.


As said above it's not just RPGs, sandbox games and others. Kojima said MGS4, a hugely successful game, could not be done on DVD9, and needed Blu-Ray. You going to argue with him?


By bozilla on 4/4/2007 10:31:52 PM , Rating: 2
That's why Konami said that MGS4 is coming out on Xbox360 as well and will not be PS3 exclusive title. It will be PS3 launch title, but it won't be exclusive.

If it can only be delivered on Blu-Ray, how in the earth will they make it work on XBox360?


RE: MS was right in thier decision
By Teckan on 3/29/2007 9:21:53 PM , Rating: 3
Even if the 360 Elite came with a HD-DVD or Blueray drive, you would never see a game that ran on one of the media for the 360.

You don't want to exclude the vast majority of the userbase who bought systems that only came with a DVD drive only.


RE: MS was right in thier decision
By Rampage on 3/29/2007 11:11:42 PM , Rating: 3
Just tossing the HD DVD drive in with the Elite package would have the same effect as placing it inside the actual console.

Theres nothing stopping MS from doing that if they wish. I would prefer they do that, rather than gamble on HD that much by integrating it in all Elites... since its not a limited SKU as first reported.


By FITCamaro on 3/30/2007 10:52:08 AM , Rating: 2
What I said was that if, in the future, Microsoft made a HD-DVD or Blu-ray drive cheap enough, developers could decide to release a game on it. If the drive only cost $30-35, thats affordable for anyone that can afford to buy a 360. As I said, look at the N64. Games later in its life required the memory expansion pack. No one complained. If a truly great game were to be released in a few years that required a $30-40 addon to the console, I'd get it.


RE: MS was right in thier decision
By FITCamaro on 3/29/2007 8:41:21 PM , Rating: 1
Exactly. Microsoft has the ability to support both formats. And since the space isn't needed for games, they're set for the high def movies regardless of who wins. Personally I want HD-DVD to win. It's already showing to be the cheaper of the two formats for hardware and what not. I don't like using games consoles as a movie player. Using a game controller to control movies sucks.


RE: MS was right in thier decision
By sapiens74 on 3/29/07, Rating: -1
RE: MS was right in thier decision
By OxBow on 3/30/2007 9:51:36 AM , Rating: 2
I must say that I do enjoy using my PS3 for watching movies as well as playing games. The blue-tooth remote is nice also. For some reason I still can't get out of the habit of pointing it at the tv, though. I'd love it if blue-tooth replaced IR for remote controls. When the kids are jumping around in front of the tv, it's quite difficult to aim that ir beam through them.


RE: MS was right in thier decision
By noirsoft on 3/30/2007 12:00:10 AM , Rating: 2
quote:

Using a game controller to control movies sucks.


Isn't that what universal remotes are for? I use my 360 as my primary DVD player with a Harmony remote. The output looks better than my old Pioneer Elite 480p dedicated player.

The $25 PS3 remote is not too expensive, but I would have preferred it if Sony had just put in the extra $0.50 to have an IR port on the PS3. JUst when I get everything down to one remote, now I have two. :(


RE: MS was right in thier decision
By JimFear on 3/30/2007 7:56:20 AM , Rating: 5
Have you read the report from the Games Design Cheif at Insomniac games explaining the limitations of DVD9? I whole-heartedly agree with every point this man has made.

quote:
3. 50 GB games
If you ever hear someone say “Blu-Ray isn’t needed for this generation,” rest assured they don’t make games for a living. At Insomniac, we were filling up DVDs on the PS2, as were most of the developers in the industry. We compressed the level data, we compressed the mpeg movies, we compressed the audio, and it was still a struggle to get it to fit in 6 gigs. Now we’ve got 16 times as much system RAM, so the level data is 16 times bigger. And the average disc space of games only gets bigger over a console’s lifespan. As games get bigger, more advanced and more complex, they necessarily take up more space. If developers were filling up DVDs last generation, there are clearly going to be some sacrifices made to fit current generation games in the same amount of space.

Granted, some really great Xbox 360 games have squeezed onto a DVD9. Gears of War is a beautiful game and shows off the highest resolution textures of anything yet released, partly because of the Unreal Engine’s ability to stream textures. This means that you can have much higher resolution textures than you could normally fit in your 512 MB of RAM. It also means that you’re going to chew up more disc space for each level. With streamed textures, streamed geometry and streamed audio, even with compression, you can quickly approach 1 GB of data per level. That inherently limits you to a maximum of about 7 levels, and that’s without multiplayer levels or mpeg cutscenes.

Sometimes people ask us, “If Resistance takes 14 gigabytes, why doesn’t it look better than Gears?” Well, for one, Resistance didn’t support texture streaming, so we had to make choices about where we spent our high-res textures. Resistance also had 30 single-player chapters, six multiplayer maps, uncompressed audio streaming, and high-definition mpegs. That all added up to a lot of space on the disc. Starting with Ratchet and Clank Future: Tools of Destruction we are supporting texture streaming, which will make the worlds look even better, and will also consume even more space on disc.

There’s no question that you can always cut more levels, compress the audio more, compress the textures more, down-res the mpeg movies, and eventually get any game to fit on a DVD. But you paid for a high-def experience, right? You want the highest resolution, best audio, most cinematic experience a developer can offer, right? That’s why Blu-Ray is important for games, and why it will become more important each year of this hardware cycle.


Sure the graphics can look good but then you have to make sacrifices and end up with either pants audio or lack of content (or both), Gears of War is a good example as you can beat it in mere hours, also look at oblivion, sure its pretty and offers a huge world but look at how much repition there is within the game. Sayign we don't need more storage is crazy "oh we don't need bigger hard drives, we don't need extra memory, we don't need faster PC's or bigger TV's", natural progression is to get bigger and to limit developers in any shape or form could cripple what could essentially be a nice, long and completely immersive game.


RE: MS was right in thier decision
By OxBow on 3/30/2007 9:55:20 AM , Rating: 2
Well said


RE: MS was right in thier decision
By DingieM on 3/30/07, Rating: 0
RE: MS was right in thier decision
By Timeless on 3/31/2007 6:14:09 PM , Rating: 2
I was wondering if you got any proof for that?


RE: MS was right in thier decision
By DrKlahn on 3/30/2007 11:59:21 AM , Rating: 2
And the extra space was used up in Resistance for FMV and extra languages. You are going to be hard pressed to justify needing 25GB of space when you have 256MB of texture memory. Sorry but Blu Ray is in there to promote movie penetration.


By Lord Evermore on 4/1/2007 6:41:10 AM , Rating: 1
Amazingly though, PC games intended for systems with gigs of RAM and 256MB or more of video memory still manage to fit on a single CD often, and very rarely more than one DVD. Sure, you're copying the data to a hard drive, but it's usually still in a compressed format and under a few gigs on the drive.


By Hyperlite on 3/29/2007 8:53:18 PM , Rating: 2
it would be truely amazing to have a 360 with a bluray and an hddvd player. even if you are pushing $650 for the console and accessories (drives, etc...) you have a very powerful media machine. Say, an elite with 2x120gb drives, HD DVD drive and a blueray drive, HDMI...


RE: MS was right in thier decision
By othercents on 3/29/2007 10:03:42 PM , Rating: 2
I think Microsoft missed how conscious some buyers are about their entertainment space. Personally I would rather have an all in one unit that had the HD built in no matter what format instead of running an external HD drive. This would also have made some 360 buyers think about purchasing the Elite edition instead of paying to upgrade their harddrive and buying the HDDVD external drive.

However we are 3-5 years off before standard DVDs are done away with and we are required to purchase the new format. By then I'm sure we will see new console hardware. My DVD player broke, so I think I'm going to get a 360 Elite.

Other


RE: MS was right in thier decision
By sxr7171 on 3/29/2007 11:03:22 PM , Rating: 2
Some people conscious of their entertainment system where they'd rather not have a console sitting there with the rest of the "good stuff" and would rather get a dedicated HD-DVD or Blu-Ray player using the console only for games.


RE: MS was right in thier decision
By HVAC on 3/30/2007 1:13:01 PM , Rating: 2
That's ok. I find Microsoft to be unnecessary, but I may use them in the future.


RE: MS was right in thier decision
By biohazard420420 on 3/31/2007 1:37:49 AM , Rating: 2
I think that it is pretty telling that MS is even considering BR as a possible future addition regardless of how unlikely it is. I was always in favor of BR for one reason and one reason only storage capacity. I do not own a 360 or a ps3 and probally never will, while at the moment the wii is ahead in just the amount it is selling mainly because of the low price point and the innovative controls, I think the ps3 has the most potential in the future. Granted the 360 has some great looking games, I have played GoW its beautiful, I think the ps3 has the most future potential in terms of graphics in the future. I wont get into the which has the better gpu or whatever since in all honesty the coding of the game will make the biggest difference in terms of what each console can do. Look at God of War 2 for the ps2 that is an amazingly beautiful game graphics wise considering it is on the ps2.

As time progresses the developers will be better equiped to create beautiful games on their respective consoles. The ps3 is off to a slow start because of the high price more than anything else but hell you get a BR drive out of the box that accounts for a fairly sizeable amount of their sales i would bet. The 360 of course had a close to 1 year lead time with its release so it is no wonder it has a larger library and better looking games now but compare that to when it was initially released and the quality of games it had then. Time will only tell which one will come out on top but at least this cycle the wii has a fighting chance, granted it has sup par graphics but it makes up for it in game quality and the new control scheme. The ps3 does however have one or 2 games that I think are on par with the 360 in terms of graphics those being Motostorm and Resistence, both of which look great.

I didnt however see the format war showing a winner so soon, no there is no clear winner at the moment but for the time bieng BR is ahead. There is one problem with both formats though that are preventing faster adoption now. Not including the visual improvements from dvd to hd dvd and br there is no big wow factor with either format aside from storage space. The vast majority of people do not have hdtvs and actually unless you have a huge tv and/or near perfect vision the visual improvments are not all that great IMO. Yes the images are sharper and you can see more detail but unless you have a set big enough (over 40") to display 1080p and have great vision your not going to see a big enough benefit to spend your hard earned money on a new tv and new player.

On top of that what I bellieve was one of the biggest unsung reasons for the fairly rapid adoption of dvd in the first place is no longer a factor anymore and that is IMO the same thing that made the switch from casette tapes to cd so worth it for the average person and that is the need to no longer rewind a tape to watch it again. While most will point to the smaller media size and audio and visual improvments as a big factor I think that lot of people made the move because you no longer have to rewind I know that was the case with me. Yes you get some benefits and the amount of benefit is debateable from person to person since there are many who still say vinyl sounds the "best" but you need one thing to hook people to make them want to switch. While I belive that eventually BR will come out on top in the format war I think the people who will most welcome the new format are not those who love to watch movies and want it in HD but those who would LOVE to have all that extra storage space for computer use or on a BR recorded in the living room.

At the moment prices are high but I will bet you money that there are thousands of computer users drooling to get those 50GB BR discs to burn their music and games and movies onto to free up valuable HD space. And just imagine buring BR discs with just mp3 files to play in your BR player or maybe even a BR player for a car. I have some 20,000 mp3s on my computer and I would kill to be able to take 50 GB's around with me to listen to where ever I wanted you could include mp3 players here but to get to that storage amount you are looking at spending several hundered dollars for the player. I did of course leave out the cost of a fictional br player for a car or in your living room (real though expensive) since I am speaking of just the amount of storage avaliable to use if you include the cost of a current br player it puts the price close to 1000 (excluding the ps3) but the player is mainly focused on movies anyway (I don't even know if a BR player can play mp3s from a br disc at the moment if not they should get to working on that) as opposed to mp3 players that "also" play movies but are mainly used for only music. (Of course assuming they develop the BR drive to a point where you can get one in your car or living room or even a BR walkman {ok that is far fetched since flash and hdd mp3 players rock} Imagine just being able to bring 10,000 songs on a single disc with you anywhere you wanted)


RE: MS was right in thier decision
By Lord Evermore on 4/1/2007 7:03:22 AM , Rating: 2
PS3 is off to a slow start because of the high price and low availability.

I'm betting you don't own the 1500 to 2000 albums those MP3s would have required to legally own those 20,000 MP3s. If that's the case, it's funny that you'd pay extra (BD is more expensive inherently) to be able to carry around your music that you didn't pay for. Only a very tiny number of people are likely to have that many legal songs (even at bargain album prices that's a lot of money).

You're right that HD formats really don't have a wow factor. Even DVD didn't really make much difference compared to CDs for data/music, just the same progressive space increases. For movies it was a huge leap in capability compared to VHS, totally changing the things we could do with videos (although I bet plenty of people watch just just the same as they did with VHS). CDs did the same thing compared to audio tape. Switching to CDs and DVDs was for me all about the ability to not have to fast forward and rewind, too. About the only thing that I can imagine being such a big difference now would also affect many other things, something like instant random access becoming high speed, small and cheap. Like Flash memory suddenly getting the latency and throughput to blow away a hard drive, and being able to pack half a terabyte into a laptop drive.

As far as size though, I don't really see that much importance in the differences when it comes to using them for extra storage space for a computer. For one, no matter how large the disc is, they're still an order of magnitude smaller than the hard drive space used by people who handle a lot of videos and audio and software. It's still a pain in the butt to have to change discs to get the one with the files you want on it, and of course they're SLOW compared to a hard drive. And it's doubtful people with legal copies of games are going to be "backing them up" to free up hard drive space, having to move the data back and forth for every game session and make sure the current save files and mods are there. And of course, a DVD is still plenty large enough to do that.

Optical disk space is creeping along compared to hard drives. Even a fivefold increase in capacity is a drop in the bucket compared to the storage space on a hard drive these days.

Plus, the vast majority of people DON'T keep 17 different multi-gigabyte games installed, or want to, and don't have several thousand MP3s that they want instant access to at all times no matter where they go.


RE: MS was right in thier decision
By SunAngel on 4/1/07, Rating: 0
RE: MS was right in thier decision
By bkm32 on 4/3/2007 2:28:04 PM , Rating: 2
First off--great thread!

I've posted before that MS is placating existing/potential consumers by offering a next-gen disc playback drive (for those that "have to have the disc"). MS could care less if BR-DVD or HD-DVD wins (although if HD-DVD wins, Sony loses $$ = good for MS). MS's strategy is to offer HD content via the web. Period! The "coudiness" that HD-DVD and BR-DVD offer the at-home movie consumer aids their strategy and current course of action. MS cares only about non-proprietary add-on storage capability (i.e. HDD, SSD, whatever's cheapest for now) Thus, they've increased the HDD for the X360.

Moreover, here's what's in the works that will kill both HD-DVD and BR-DVD before either is declared the winner of the next-gen movie disc war:

http://www.inphase-technologies.com/technology/pdf...

and

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/11/24/maxell_hol...

Holographic Storage (HS for short) offers 300GB-1.6TB of storage on a single disc and is just 3-4 years from commercial maturity (probably less if enough financial-backing is received). In fact, Maxell already offers a drive that may or may not be compatible with today's PC market.

At any rate, IMHO, this looks to be around the time when we'll be seeing the birthpangs of the next generation of videogame consoles wars.

And because HS looks to offer more storage per disc (by at least 2 orders of magnitude) and at a lower cost, the game company that profits the most from this current generation of videogame consoles wars will likely be the first to adopt this new storage medium and incorporate it into their next-gen all-in-one system.

PS3 may just become profitable, X360 v4.0 will be available, and the Wii will be in every retirement home and cruiseship on the planet.

However, a probable scenario involves whichever system can incorporate this new storage medium into their existing platform along with the softwar upgrades and development tools, first.


What is this guy smokin??
By cheetah2k on 3/29/07, Rating: 0
RE: What is this guy smokin??
By ATC on 3/29/2007 11:03:29 PM , Rating: 4
quote:
It sounds to me like M$ isnt confident in HD-DVD media being around very long, and won't take the risk to run with it.


Bingo. It's been discussed by analysts for the past 2 weeks and it's almost unanimous that this is precisely the case and a smart move by MSFT, a blow to HD-DVD/Toshiba.

You really can't blame MSFT for doing this. I've said it before and I'll say it again, MSFT can already see the writing on the wall....HD-DVD is all but officially dead. My guess is that HD-DVD's official death will coincide with the predicted decision by Universal, the sole major Studio that's backing only HD-DVD, to start supporting BD. Some analysts believe this can happen as early as this summer.


RE: What is this guy smokin??
By bplewis24 on 3/30/2007 12:41:24 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Universal, the sole major Studio that's backing only HD-DVD, to start supporting BD.


The day that happens is the day the format war is effectively over. Instantly.

Brandon


RE: What is this guy smokin??
By cheetah2k on 3/30/2007 12:54:34 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
You really can't blame MSFT for doing this. I've said it before and I'll say it again, MSFT can already see the writing on the wall....HD-DVD is all but officially dead.


While this might be the case in the medium term, M$ has locked themselves and their customer base into HD-DVD. HD-DVD format will be around for years to come as a result. The studio's might kill if off, but i just can't (for the life of me) see M$ backing down and changing to BR (especially since its Sony's baby)

Only if they developed a BR/HD-DVD combo drive could they sort out an escape. And a Houdini like escape it would be....


RE: What is this guy smokin??
By cochy on 3/30/2007 2:22:25 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
but i just can't (for the life of me) see M$ backing down and changing to BR (especially since its Sony's baby)


Well it shouldn't be too hard for to see this happening for a couple reasons. 1) This MS exec basically said it's a possibility. 2)If the studios drop hd-dvd what would be the point for MS to offer a hd-dvd player?

In fact if hd-dvd loses, and it looks likely, MS will have no choice to offer a bd-player or more people will look to the PS3. Going even further into the relm of irony, I'd even say that a BD integrated Xbox 360 Elite (rev.2) might make an appearance one day.


RE: What is this guy smokin??
By Belard on 3/30/2007 6:32:41 AM , Rating: 2
Actually - its a bit of a toss up I think... now. While Disney and other major studios have gone BR only.

Apparently, SONY is currently blocking the adult industry from making porn on BR Discs. That would be a major no-no for a format. But this could also be FUD - unless someone knows of a press release from SONY about it.


RE: What is this guy smokin??
By OxBow on 3/30/2007 10:14:53 AM , Rating: 2
The whole Sony is against porn thing is another myth based on poorly researched news articles. Slate did a big story on this a while back.

Sony has no problem with adult content on the BlueRay format. This is because A) they are a member of a consortium and don't have sole veto power and B) they know that adult content can help the standard be adopted.

However, Sony does own most (not all) of the pressing capacity for distribution of BR right now. Other companies are ramping up new factories, but they are not in production yet. Because of a lawsuit several years ago between Disney and Sony over a 2 second clip of adult content that "accidently" found it's way onto a batch of Disney DVD's, Sony no longer allows any of it's own equipment to be used for adult content. In order to protect that big client, Disney, and other mainstream contracts, Sony has eschewed adult content from it's client list. By doing so, they ensure that no such accidents can happen again. If they didn't do this, all those other studios would walk, which is unacceptable.

Sony has clearly said that they have no problem with adult content on Blue Ray, but that they won't manufacture the disks themselves. There are a couple other companies that are and more will be entering the market. So give the whole "no porn on Blue Ray" thing a rest. It's old news and doesn't fly anymore.


RE: What is this guy smokin??
By ATC on 3/30/2007 11:05:30 AM , Rating: 2
I'll add to that; IMO I don't think the porn industry will have as much of an impact on the format war this time around as it did in the Betamax/VHS days, what with broadband availability and what not...


RE: What is this guy smokin??
By freakmatador on 3/31/2007 2:17:04 PM , Rating: 3
Actually, I believe at this point that Microsoft has become neutral on the HD format war. Also remember that, Microsoft and Sony have worked together before. There is a Brand of computers call Sony Vaio that uses Windows OS that can run BR. As far as Microsoft is concerned, they may not make games on other formats (BR or HD DVD). So, if people want either or for movie playback, I don’t see what would stop M$$ from making a BR player available for its console. Even if you think this favor Sony’s ps3, remember that the DVD players where part of PS2 and the XBOX. More over, Sony helped on the development of DVD anyways. So they probably got something out of each Xbox sold too.


RE: What is this guy smokin??
By bkm32 on 4/3/2007 2:56:51 PM , Rating: 2
MS only supports HD-DVD to bog down Sony with another format war, which redirects marketing and development resources that could be used for promoting the PS3. Otherwise, MS could care less since they want to stream HD content to the consumer via Xbox Live and/or Windows Live. That way, the consumer only has to worry about their audio and video setup (i.e. TV and stereo).

MS is probably ready to go with a BR-DVD firmware update for the X360 since Windows has to support it on the PC front. An external BR-DVD drive will most likely already work once MS modifies and releases that update for the X360.

Therefore, in this context, it would be foolish for MS to embed either the HD-DVD or BR-DVD disc drive in the X360 since their software can support both already.

MS is only appearing to support one format over the other. This is apparent in that X360 games are only (and will only be) produced in the DVD9 format. If MS were really behind HD-DVD, then X360 games would rely on the increased storage medium that HD-DVD allows.

This allows MS to say that the X360 is just a videogame console, which subcribes to the "hardcore" and fanboys, while leaving the door open for the X360 to penetrate other markets quietly via Xbox Live, Movies, Music, etc. Before you know it, X360 is in the Living Room and hooked into everything.

Very "prestige-like". IOW, the third part of an illusion act.


Deja vu
By Teckan on 3/29/2007 9:14:09 PM , Rating: 2
I seem to remember Microsoft saying HDMI was unnecessary and not in their plans when those pics leaked a few months back so I wouldn't place too much stock in their comments.




RE: Deja vu
By daftrok on 3/29/2007 9:28:02 PM , Rating: 2
True. They also said 1080p is unnecessary and Blu-ray was a mediocre technology. Now look at them; they got 1080p, they're getting HDMI, and now they are seeing that HD DVD is failing and are open to bring Blu-ray to the 360.


RE: Deja vu
By Squibby on 3/30/2007 4:55:57 AM , Rating: 2
I still think they'd still say 1080p is unnecessary, Blu-ray isn't as good as HD-DVD, and HDMI doesn't matter too much... but if customers really want it and complain enough, then I'm sure it'll show up (as long as it's a good business decision). Xbox prides itself in being open to the community through the Xbox forums and the blogs (Major Nelson, Ozymandias, Gamerscore, etc.).

1080p is just a feature to check-off on your box. The percentage of people who have 1080p monitors is ridiculously small. The percentage of users who can actually tell the difference between 720p and 1080p is even smaller (those who really do care just happen to be a very vocal minority). Also, neither the 360 or PS3 are really fast enough to deliver amazing 1080p visuals yet (devs will get better at optimizing eventually). Instead, the focus should be on better visual quality (models, effects, lighting, etc) at good frame rates. Including 1080p also has the added benefit of shutting Sony up about FullHD or TrueHD or whatever they were going on about.

HDMI is likewise not a big deal. The biggest thing it gets me is less cable clutter and being able to buy a $5-10 cable instead of a insanely expensive component cable and optical cable... but since the 360 already comes with a component cable, that's a moot point. The difference in quality between them is tiny and even less noticeable then the resolution difference.

As for Blu-ray, HD-DVD uses a better encoding and has more interactive features. The interactive features aren't used well yet, so that's a wash, and very few people will be able to tell the difference between Blu-ray and HD-DVD without looking at stills side-by-side, so that doesn't really matter either. HD-DVD is also much cheaper to produce, but they're both much more expensive than DVD right now since the volumes are so low. If Blu-ray wins though, it doesn't make much sense not to have an option for it... so why not?


RE: Deja vu
By lufoxe on 3/30/2007 8:58:17 AM , Rating: 2
I've spoken my qualms about BR in the past, (just search my name they're there). If MS offers an add-on unit for BD, it may just be better than the sony unit for one reason. (and sony fanboys better not argue with me on this) And that is at it's current state the PS3s BD drive is very slow. (1x I think) and a pain to program for. Without caching to the Hard Drive, Madden is getting load time of around 30 minutes, quite slow if you ask me. Anywho that aside, it allows them to wait for the add-on and wait for faster drives to be released. Moot point in movies, but if they're gonna use it for games (doubtfully, but so was the HDMI cable) then load times will be decreased. (assuming sony doesn't revise the PS3)


RE: Deja vu
By JimFear on 3/30/2007 10:14:07 AM , Rating: 2
The BR drive is 2x currently and thats a limit with the current laser tech, I do believe some company managed to achieve lasers with 10x speed recently in a test lab which opens the possibility for much faster drives in the near future.


RE: Deja vu
By masher2 (blog) on 3/30/2007 10:21:26 AM , Rating: 2
> "The BR drive is 2x currently and thats a limit with the current laser tech, I do believe some company managed to achieve lasers with 10x speed recently in a test lab "

Laser power limits disc write speeds, not reads.


RE: Deja vu
By NaughtyGeek on 3/30/2007 10:32:12 AM , Rating: 2
If you're getting a 30 min. load time in Madden on your PS3, there's something wrong with it. TAKE IT BACK! It takes me no more than 2 or 3 minutes between boot and playing the game.


RE: Deja vu
By Goty on 3/30/2007 9:36:44 AM , Rating: 3
Blu-Ray and HD-DVD both use VC-1 now for the most part, with the exception of a few movies coming out in MPEG-2 still. Also, the quality of Blu-Ray movies encoded in MPEG-2 has gone up dramatically so that you can no longer tell a difference in quality between either of the high-def formats.


Microsoft is trying to fool us again
By zaki on 3/29/2007 9:25:44 PM , Rating: 2
by saying things like "we want to give our consumer option" and making readers feel all warm inside they are leading consumers away from the high end.

since when did technology become a game for the people who were content with what they have.
sony gets credit for putting in a next gen format into their product and making it much more enticing to a larger group of people, thus it is more expensive.
Microsoft did not do that, and thats not exactly choice is it?

If the whole point is that microsoft will be able to provide the next gen external drive when the war is over, then by the same token, why cant sony?

I mean, we would agree that hd-dvd and blu-ray are pretty much 50-50 right now (without going too much into details), so doesnt that mean that sony already has an upperhand?
there is a 50% chance that a person who buys a ps3 right now, will not have to buy any additional hardware (besides hdmi cable :) ) when the next gen format winner is declared.

BUT there is a 100% inevitablility that any xbox360 owner will have to purchase an external drive to support a next gen format.

If either company had the complete means to giving consumers complete choice, they would have released two versions of their consoles: one with a built in hd-dvd/blu ray drive and one without it.

Microsoft is really good at marketing (and have been helped by the "misfortunes" of sony in the past year). I believe most people who are xbox360 fans only do it based on the overwhelmingly one sided news and public comments in the past couple of years. but credit goes to microsoft for putting themselves in a position where their one sided stories are given more credibility




RE: Microsoft is trying to fool us again
By daftrok on 3/29/2007 9:41:12 PM , Rating: 2
Agreed. But one thing that irks me about Microsoft is that they aren't planning as far ahead as they should be. Sure Sony made the same mistake, but at least their problems can be fixed with mainly software upgrades. Sony was also much more open about literally modding your PS3 with a bigger HDD and hell, even an OS to make it into a computer. HDMI cables are cheap as hell online (thank you ehdmi!) so really, you put in 500-600 dollars into the beginning and buy one or two controllers...THATS IT!

With the 360 however, you have extremely territorial accessory usage. You can't buy a wireless headset from Motorolla or Logitech, no you have buy it from THEM! You can't install your own wireless adapter, you have to buy it from THEM! You can't upgrade your HDD to any size you want, no its either 64 MB, 512 MB, 20 GB or 120 GB, all of which are ridiculously priced...from THEM! Your wireless controller doesn't come with rechargable batteries, you have to buy the battery and the wire...FROM THEM! Even the god damn wire that plugs from your wall to your brick adapter has a groove so you can't go and buy a standard plug, you have to BUY IT FROM THEM! So it shocks me when they say they give you a choice when really the only choice is THEM!...or Nyko.

I can't believe that HDMI wasn't included in the beginning. If they have just done that they wouldn't have come out with the Elite in the first place. It is really by all the shit Sony had to go through (battery explosions, blue-laser diode issues, HD DVD being a bitch), but miraculously they prevailed through all of these issues and are picking up the pieces. They have a few but crucial problems with the PS3, but once these issues are fixed, watch out.