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"Full of win!"
Update remedies early shortcomings, including copy/cut/paste and multitasking deficiencies

Windows Phone 7 is finally here.  The good is that there's lots of hardware varieties to choose from, much like Android.  Also in the good news category is the slick and easy to used polished user interface that comes standard with WP7.  The bad news is that many features are notably missing -- hot swappable SD memory, copy/cut/paste, and true third-party multitasking.

But there's hope yet for those who have purchased Windows Phone 7 handsets, or are thinking about it.  Microsoft is rumored to be planning a massive update to the young operating system according to wpcentral.

The news was leaked by overexcited Windows Phone 7 developer Chris Walsh, who couldn't keep quiet about the update's inclusion of copy/cut/paste, free voice-guided Bing navigation, custom ringtone support, a third-party multitasking solution, and more.

The update is rumored to land as early as January, in time to go head to head with Google's Android 2.3 "Gingerbread" and Apple's iOS 4.3.

If indeed all those rumored features make it to the finished product, Microsoft would unleash a wicked competitor on the market.  As one Twitter poster put it, "MS took 3 months to do what Apple did in 3 years."

Another poster comments, "Let's just say, they could have called it Windows Phone 8."

Let's just say Google and Apple are doubtless watching closely how this one plays out.



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RIP, Leslie
By amanojaku on 11/29/2010 5:58:45 PM , Rating: 5
We'll stop calling you Shirley now.




RE: RIP, Leslie
By Milliniar on 11/29/2010 6:06:13 PM , Rating: 5
He will surely be remembered, and missed.


RE: RIP, Leslie
By semo on 11/30/2010 2:48:24 AM , Rating: 3
Hear hear
He was the king of Hollywood slapstick.


RE: RIP, Leslie
By AssBall on 11/30/2010 7:57:19 AM , Rating: 4
Ryan Harrison: Your dog sure has a surprised look on his face.

Lauren: That's because you're looking at his butt.

Ryan Harrison: Uh, then he's certainly not going to enjoy that treat I just fed to him.

Best. Movie. Ever.


RE: RIP, Leslie
By MozeeToby on 11/30/2010 12:52:14 PM , Rating: 4
Worth noting that he started out as a dramatic actor and was becoming quite successful in those roles. In fact, his most common roles were the same kinds of characters that he went on to make fun of in Airplane and The Naked Gun. He was the ultimate deadpan snarker, never letting his character in on the joke even when the joke was all around him.

It's a shame the Wayans brothers have ruined the spoof genre for the time being, it's going to be a while before we see another actor like Nielsen come along.


Remote Desktop possible?
By mrdelldude on 11/29/2010 5:37:07 PM , Rating: 3
For me at work, if this isn't available then it's a deal breaker.

Any idea if this supposed update will allow remote desktop - either through MS or 3rd party?




RE: Remote Desktop possible?
By Jedi2155 on 11/29/2010 5:53:23 PM , Rating: 2
Not sure about WinMo 7 but you could do it in Android with the TeamViewer App


RE: Remote Desktop possible?
By GreenEnvt on 11/29/2010 7:14:41 PM , Rating: 2
Teamviewer is great, but it requires a client on both ends (at least the pc end).

There are a few products in the android market that support both the native windows RDP client, and vnc.


RE: Remote Desktop possible?
By omnicronx on 11/29/2010 6:44:33 PM , Rating: 2
I don't think its an integrated app, but considering that Windows Mobile used to package it for free, I could very well be coming.

Just like any other smartphone, there is already an app available on the market.

Currently no smartphone OS supports it natively.. Although Android/iOS/Windows Phone have third party apps available..


RE: Remote Desktop possible?
By omnicronx on 11/29/2010 6:48:35 PM , Rating: 2
Not exactly sure how it would work though, considering tcp/ip is not exposed to apps as it currently stands if I remember correctly...(which is a big problem right now for development which I hope is added very quickly) So it may only be a vnc client or something which can go over HTTP.


RE: Remote Desktop possible?
By Samus on 11/29/2010 11:49:00 PM , Rating: 2
Since every Windows CE/Mobile device I've ever used had a RDP client, I'd be shocked if Mobile 7 didn't have one in very short time.

But who knows...I still don't know exactly what markets they're targeting with this phone. Unfortunately, IT doesn't seem to be one of them. We're stuck with Android and Blackberry OS until this becomes a 'complete' package.


RE: Remote Desktop possible?
By Smilin on 11/30/2010 10:05:02 AM , Rating: 2
You can create a TCP socket with the current APIs. I think raw UDP was the one not exposed (which kinda kills some streaming ideas). Could be wrong.


RE: Remote Desktop possible?
By Flunk on 11/30/2010 10:40:33 AM , Rating: 2
Actually, you can't. The System.Net.Sockets namespace is there but totally empty. It's quite likely they will make this available later on.

Otherwise the only way you could get this to work would be to write a server app for the PC that runs as a web service and connect to that from the phone. It would be a big pain but possibly feasible.


RE: Remote Desktop possible?
By omnicronx on 11/30/2010 11:58:36 AM , Rating: 2
Ya I checked again yesterday, only access to web API's, no TCP/IP as it currently stands..

So that pretty much nixes any third party true RDP client for now... although I'd be very surprised if they did not add this later on as you noted. Right now third party API support is not so great, I hope this update includes many of the missing links or the apps will suffer..


RE: Remote Desktop possible?
By MCKENZIE1130 on 11/29/10, Rating: -1
The biggest question...
By aegisofrime on 11/29/2010 10:35:23 PM , Rating: 2
How does Microsoft plan to release WP7 updates? I hope it's not the Android style, leaving updates to the responsibility of the manufacturer, thus leaving users at their mercy. I have Googled about this before and apparently Microsoft plans to push updates directly to users, kind of like how Apple does it, which I like. Any official word on this so far? The article I read had speculation written all over it.




RE: The biggest question...
By ZaethDekar on 11/30/2010 1:35:29 AM , Rating: 2
My guess is it will be like a 'windows phone 7 update' such as what is on Windows 7 desktop.

That way people can update when they like or it will be a background download that you just choose when to install it.

If they have leave it like how Android is then really there is no point in waiting for the update if you recently bought your phone.


RE: The biggest question...
By damianrobertjones on 11/30/2010 4:34:58 AM , Rating: 2
There is an update option within the phone. Easy


RE: The biggest question...
By DanNeely on 11/30/2010 6:48:29 AM , Rating: 2
The standing and unanswered question is if the carriers can block updates indefinitely or not. Originally MS was claiming it would work exactly like windows update, but backpedaled around launch time with the carriers having the opportunity to block a months updates to do additional testing. What we don't know is if they then have to let it through the next month unless problems are found, or if they can keep blocking indefinitely to try and make you buy a new phone and sign a new contract.


RE: The biggest question...
By Smilin on 11/30/2010 10:22:57 AM , Rating: 5
How it works:

MS releases the updates directly.
The carrier can block ONE update to keep people a version back. This is in case they have any kinks to work through on their end.
The carrier cannot keep people more than one version back. So when say "7.2" ships they are forced to allow 7.0 users to upgrade to at least 7.1.

How it will likely work:
Everyone gets the update on day one. Done.


RE: The biggest question...
By aegisofrime on 11/30/2010 10:27:50 AM , Rating: 2
Thanks for the information. Just to clarify, I'm not American and the networks in my country are GSM, so I guess I don't have any carriers to worry about...


Variety?
By Exodite on 11/29/2010 6:07:11 PM , Rating: 3
Maybe I'm blind but from where I'm looking is seems WP7 is currently supporting exactly one hardware platform, namely the QSD8250.

Sure, other things differ somewhat but while WP7 has a lot of potential I wouldn't say it's offering much in the way of variety ATM.




RE: Variety?
By Pirks on 11/29/10, Rating: -1
RE: Variety?
By reader1 on 11/29/10, Rating: -1
RE: Variety?
By Pirks on 11/30/10, Rating: 0
RE: Variety?
By omnicronx on 11/29/2010 7:05:51 PM , Rating: 3
I think they are all QSD8250s... Its still an arm7 Cortex A8 at heart though, just like pretty much every other smartphone on the market right now.

It makes sense for MS to go that route though, optimize for a particular line of chips and then branch out from there if needs be.. It also will help serve as quality control, especially in the beginning while they want to gain traction. There won't be nearly as many cases as with Android in which certain apps don't work with certain phones.


RE: Variety?
By Exodite on 11/29/2010 7:08:46 PM , Rating: 2
Certainly, I totally understand why they did it as optimizing for one platform is a lot easier.

It did come at the cost of variety and options though, which I feel the article kinda glossed over.


RE: Variety?
By omnicronx on 11/29/2010 7:56:49 PM , Rating: 2
Variety in terms of what though? Yes they will all support the same frequencies, camera's, sd cards etc, but in terms of form factor (which I would assume is what most people talk about in terms of variety), there are plenty of options. (especially for a release)..

I will tend to agree though, its not mentioned in very many places that the underlying platform is the same.


RE: Variety?
By Spivonious on 11/30/2010 10:10:08 AM , Rating: 2
That's just a coincidence. All MS has mandated is hardware specs.

Personally I like that idea. It lets developers know exactly what's available to use. It's the difference between developing for the Xbox and developing for Windows.


RE: Variety?
By Exodite on 11/30/2010 10:42:44 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
That's just a coincidence. All MS has mandated is hardware specs.

^I don't know, that seems like an oxymoron to me.

Since they've mandated the hardware specs it hardly seems like a coincidence that all current WP7 handsets use the same SoC.

Of course I haven't seen it stated outright anywhere but it's not unreasonable to assume that WP7 only, currently, supports this one SoC. Meaning that things such as hardware acceleration wouldn't work on a TI OMAP or Samsung Hummingbird, for example.

Granted it's not a major hurdle at this point, assuming Microsoft is already preparing support for other SoCs. If they were to be late for the migration to dual-core Cortex A9 SoCs in the beginning of next year, due to lacking hardware support, that would be bad though.


RE: Variety?
By Spivonious on 11/30/2010 3:48:57 PM , Rating: 2
From what I understand, it is simple specs, and the SoC that the current handsets use was the only one that met all of the requirements (1GHz+ CPU, hardware graphics acceleration, etc.).

Future support would only require the proper drivers, not any built-in support in the OS. When I buy a new video card that Windows doesn't have drivers for, I download them from the video card maker, not from Microsoft.


So far so good
By Mazor on 11/29/2010 9:32:42 PM , Rating: 4
I have the Focus and the wife the Quantum. She loves hers and that is worth it for me. Look forward to the updates.
Update-wise, I would have really stressed including syncing with Outlook like my old winmo phone but utilizing Outlook with Connector and a Hotmail account, no need to usb connect to sync anymore. Contacts and Calendar stay curent across pc and phone, while not new for many, was an adjustment for me not to physically connect.
Really enjoying the phone.




Finally got one
By Smilin on 11/30/2010 10:12:29 AM , Rating: 4
I finally picked up a pair of Samsung focus for me and the Mrs.

All this fuss about copy/paste is downright amusing. Having used the thing for a little bit I couldn't care less about copy paste. It's just a stupid checkbox for geeked out smartphone fanboys. They'll add the feature but it really means nothing. I might use it in OneNote...maybe.

Hot swappable SSDs? Give me a break. It's a f'n cloud phone dummy! It's got them thar intarwebs for storage.

The ONLY thing I'm missing on this is the ringtones. I miss my Sanford-n-Son theme song. The "copy/paste-gate" debate is stupid. People just want to rehash the argument because apple showed years of derp and they are hoping for some drama as a competitor does the same. Not going to happen. MS will check the stupid box on that feature and move on. Big win for MS...wooopie doo.




Happy (so far) WP7 owner
By operaghost on 11/29/2010 10:15:28 PM , Rating: 3
I traded out my iPhone 3GS for the Samsung Focus and I couldn't be happier so far. I knew that it wouldn't have all the bells and whistles of my iPhone at first. But I knew that most of the missing features would come in short order.

Frankly, I haven't needed copy/paste yet and while 3rd party multi-tasking would be handy, I HATED how the iPhone did it. For me, the BACK function does most of what I need. I needed more along the lines of task switching instead of multi-tasking. But I'm certainly looking forward to seeing how MS handles it.

I learned to loathe my iPhone 3GS for a lot of little reasons. I never waned an iPhone 4. If it hadn't been for WP7 I probably would be using a Droid X right now.

Personally I am happy to see a little more competition to push everyone to get better. Let's see what the new update brings, and then tear into it for not being enough.




so...
By Doofenshmirtz on 11/29/2010 7:18:52 PM , Rating: 2
Tell me something I didn't hear about two months ago...




HD2
By damianrobertjones on 11/30/2010 4:44:00 AM , Rating: 2
Next to me, on my desk, is a HD2. It's been there for over three weeks now gathering dust as it's been replaced with a HD7.

Over the course of owning the HD2, I must have used Copy+paste once. Just..once, although I know that others use it every single day (Which is probably made up).

Windows Mobile 7 is vastly superior than 6.5 and that's quite obvious after using it for a short time. Fast, smooth, free of clutter, ease of configuration, etc etc. SUre, it's not perfect and it never was going to be perfect as we're all different, but I don't see any reason to move over to Android (Whichever version is out this week) or Apple (Sorry, I like my own way). (If I had to move, it would be to Android)

I commend MS for getting this update out as fast as it has and I REALLY hope that it goes well.




wp be da bomb
By OBLAMA2009 on 11/30/2010 10:10:50 AM , Rating: 2
once ms gets in serious gear, they will be very tough to beat. wp will have all the features/hardware of android with the polish and reliability of ios.




copy/paste
By Xarthos on 12/2/2010 8:39:45 AM , Rating: 2
I use copy and paste every day on my HTC Incredible. Just because you don't use this feature doesn't mean there are people out there who don't find this necessary. I use it for pulling phone numbers and address information from text messages into other applications all the time. I use it for passwords for RDP and other things.
Just because you don't use it doesn't mean it isn't absolutely a basic, common, expected component to any new mobile operating system. I'd throw that brick away if it didn't do copy and paste.




Encryption?
By jimbojimbo on 12/3/2010 12:54:10 PM , Rating: 2
It's sad the Win6.1 had encryption so we could add it to our company's email system but the Win Mobile 7 does not. It's very sad and disappointing that these phones as of now cannot be used on the corporate level. Encryption is an absolute must!




MicroSD Problem
By mavricxx on 11/30/10, Rating: -1
RE: MicroSD Problem
By damianrobertjones on 11/30/2010 4:36:34 AM , Rating: 3
You were never supposed to be able to change the card in the first place so your problem/issue has been taken from thin air.

The OWNER chooses to change the card EVEN after the oem's and MS stated that you should not do so.


RE: MicroSD Problem
By sviola on 11/30/2010 6:38:57 AM , Rating: 3
I don't think this will happen. The SD card thing is an architectural decision of the OS. The reason why you can't read them on other machines is due to the security feature available on SD cards that WP7 uses. Btw, it seems that some Symbian phones that use this feature can read wp7 sd cards and format them, so you can reuse them in other readers.

As for the WP7 approved sd cards, this term doesn't exist. What exists is the requirement to use cards that have a minimum speed requirement so there are no i/o issue with the OS performance (I think you have to use a level 6 card at least, but I'm not sure about that).


RE: MicroSD Problem
By Smilin on 11/30/2010 2:21:23 PM , Rating: 4
Not buying a CLOUD phone because of removable storage complaints.

That's genius man. Genius.


huh
By adiposity on 11/29/10, Rating: -1
RE: huh
By omnicronx on 11/29/2010 6:56:15 PM , Rating: 5
Your logic is very illogical ;)

Merely pointing out that the other OS's have these features already is irrelevant as Windows Phone 7 is a completely new platform.

Its the delta between when other platforms were released to when they implemented said features that matters..

That being said... Microsoft probably wanted to get the phone out for the Christmas season, and to do so, they had to cut a few features for a few months. Simply put, these additions were probably in development and perhaps completed beforehand. There is almost no way they finished these features (if they are really coming) in such a short period of time.

In the end it sounds like MS is playing the catchup game quite well.. Hopefully now they can focus on better 3rd party api support and perhaps some love for corp users.


RE: huh
By fic2 on 11/29/10, Rating: 0
RE: huh
By inighthawki on 11/29/2010 7:32:15 PM , Rating: 2
Copy and paste may be implemented deep inside the OS but that does not mean they had time to work it into the new completely overhauled user interface without it seeming quirky.


RE: huh
By omnicronx on 11/29/2010 7:47:18 PM , Rating: 3
I'm sure MS finds it logical.

'Get the damn phone out before we dig ourselves a hole we cannot get out of' seems like pretty good logic to me =D


RE: huh
By StevoLincolnite on 11/29/10, Rating: 0
RE: huh
By damianrobertjones on 11/30/2010 4:38:00 AM , Rating: 3
Does this extend to Apple and their first release of the iPhone? Or Google's Android when it first hit and many features simply didn't work.

MS promised the update at a later date and.... those updates are nearly here.


RE: huh
By Flunk on 11/30/2010 10:20:42 AM , Rating: 2
No, because there are no previous versions of Windows Phone. Windows Mobile had an entirely different user-space, they rewrote almost everything. Even the kernel is substantially different.


RE: huh
By Shadowself on 11/29/10, Rating: -1
RE: huh
By Da W on 11/30/2010 6:58:01 AM , Rating: 2
I hâte those know it all boys that bitch a product without habing actually using it.
In a month of usage i round myself in need of copy and paste only once.
It DOES multitasking with the back and Windows button.
Messaging and email is instantanous as a blackberry.
Media playback is supperior to anything on the marker today.
All the most used apps are available.
Facebook intégration, nobody else does or like them.
Uploads pictures in the clouds.
It does everything i need from a phone.

Sent from my WP7.


RE: huh
By fic2 on 11/30/2010 11:26:41 AM , Rating: 1
Apparently typing on WM7 sucks...


RE: huh
By jconan on 12/1/2010 1:00:50 AM , Rating: 2
Why type when you can dictate to it what to type... Hopefully coming soon from Microsoft courtesy of Bing or Azure cloud.


RE: huh
By Smilin on 11/30/2010 10:15:54 AM , Rating: 2
Your analogy sucks. Try one with a car.


RE: huh
By Flunk on 11/30/2010 10:33:11 AM , Rating: 2
So, you're saying his analogy isn't stupid enough. He needs to make one that's less apt?


RE: huh
By Smilin on 11/30/2010 2:12:23 PM , Rating: 1
Sorry my bad...

/sarcasm.

...There.


RE: huh
By Aloonatic on 11/29/2010 9:00:23 PM , Rating: 2
His logic is no more illogical than comparing what MS have achieved in 3 months with win mobile 7, to what Apple and Google have in however long with their mobile OSes.

Or do we simply have to forget all the other windows mobile versions? If anything, haven't MS been at this moile/smartphone OS thing longer than Google and Apple, and are yet somehow still behind?

Not sure that they have reeeeallly only been at it for 3 months or so :o)


RE: huh
By adiposity on 11/30/2010 11:13:27 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Its the delta between when other platforms were released to when they implemented said features that matters..


Not really. Comparing one version of a product to another version of the same product is not how competition works. What matters is how Microsoft's phones stack up in the market. If they release a feature that all other phones already have, it's not an advantage.

Like I said, I applaud them for quickly implementing these things, but it does not really make them a "wicked competitor" to be catching up to other OSes.

Having a quick dev cycle at this point is a necessity precisely because they are playing catch-up. It is not some sort of advantage that their "delta" to implement something is shorter than Apple or Google, when Apple and Google already had that before WinPhone7 was released.

As others already pointed out, it's not like Microsoft is new to the phone space. They've been in the space the longest. I understand that this is a "brand new platform" (not really, but it's different enough to forgive their early lack of features). However, at this point they are the weakest competitor, because they are behind on everything. Every basic feature they miss just slows adoption, so of course they have to fix them ASAP--but that's not a "leg up" on anybody, just yet.


RE: huh
By omnicronx on 11/30/2010 11:55:25 AM , Rating: 3
Its a new platform what do you expect. Seriously everyone seems to think writing a mobile OS is an EASY thing to do.

They had to start somewhere and now they plan on releasing many of the missing features within months of its release.

Other manufacturers wished they could have had their mobile platform progress so quickly.

If it really matters that much to you, stay away from the platform. But I think it was a smart move on MS's part, people will buy the phones during Christmas with an expectation that their phones will get a big update a month or so later.

They needed to get the phone out, users had waited long enough and they were lucky Windows Mobile even lasted as long as it did. Obviously in a perfect world it would have been nice for them to release an OS that was completely up to date with other current offerings, but it just was not feasible in my opinion..


RE: huh
By Aloonatic on 11/30/2010 1:53:39 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
Other manufacturers wished they could have had their mobile platform progress so quickly.
lol, MS fanboys. If Apple lovers are sheep, what are you guys?

MS have been trying to make a mobile OS that works well on smart-phones for years and years and years*. Credit where it's due, windows CE devices have been around for ages and are probably undervalued by many people with all the dull, but important jobs that CD devices do, but seriously, MS have been trying to make a mobile/smartphone OS for a lot longer than Apple and Goolge have.

Yet somehow you say that MS are progressing faster than Apple and Google, even though this amazing update which will only then bring copy/paste (which Apple "sheep" were being openly mocked for buying devices without it for all those years) is only just helping them catch up?

Its sad how so many people on here can be so blinded. At least if it's a comment supporting MS you'll get rated up quickly, rather than rated down quckly as an identical, Apple supporting comment would do.

*To be fair, MS were probably fighting a losing battle for many a year as the hardware that was available (processing, storage and touch-screens) were probably a big problem, especially for cheap, mass produced consumer products*


RE: huh
By adiposity on 11/30/2010 2:24:05 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
If it really matters that much to you, stay away from the platform. But I think it was a smart move on MS's part, people will buy the phones during Christmas with an expectation that their phones will get a big update a month or so later.


That's not the point, really. My personal decision about which platform to use has nothing to do with it. In the past I've owned mostly WinMo phones, but I switched to Android after getting sick of the lag on my HTC Touch Pro (which had excellent hardware but still couldn't hack it).

It just sounds like you are defending Microsoft here, which is totally unnecessary. I'm not attacking them, just pointing out the difficulties they face in the current market. It's a bit of a joke to say, "they are a fierce competitor now!" when all they've done is catch up to existing offerings.

They are moving quickly, and that's great. But realistically, being behind in marketshare, development, 3rd party apps, and carrier support are big problems.

The question simply isn't "how fast does Microsoft do things once they get started on them?" but rather, "will Microsoft succeed in the current marketplace?"


One important feature missing
By Tony Swash on 11/29/10, Rating: -1
RE: One important feature missing
By Gio6518 on 11/29/2010 7:24:15 PM , Rating: 2
HMMMMMMMM, not too long ago you said it's going to take sales away from android.


RE: One important feature missing
By Tony Swash on 11/30/10, Rating: -1
RE: One important feature missing
By Pirks on 11/30/2010 10:06:52 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
the issue is why would they select WP7 over Android and have to pay a fee for doing that?
If MS really wants to beat Android they will start offering WP7 for free, just to grab market share. They did this trick with IE/Netscape, and it worked then. Should work now too.


RE: One important feature missing
By Smilin on 11/30/2010 2:18:06 PM , Rating: 2
It basically is free. The cost to license it is very low. Low enough that it doesn't affect the consumer price so it doesn't affect sales.

The pricing kinda reminds me of XBL. It's low enough that very few people mind yet taken as a whole it generates a lot of revenue for MS. Sony tried to get the public riled up but it failed and they are kicking themselves about a billion ($$$) times a year now because they didn't think of it.

plus or minus $20 in price on a phone isn't going to storm the market.

There are a lot of benefits that come with the cost too. Patent liability alone would be worth it. Just ask HTC.


"I f***ing cannot play Halo 2 multiplayer. I cannot do it." -- Bungie Technical Lead Chris Butcher

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