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Microsoft launches free design and development software program for students

As Apple continues to see growth among youngsters, Microsoft sees the need to keep up with the demographic.  Microsoft Corp. announced on Monday that the software giant will offer free access of its development and design tools to as many as one billion students, whether they are in college or high school. 

The goal with the DreamSpark program is to reach out to students worldwide, as well as push technology innovation around the world. The software included in the DreamSparks program includes Visual Studio 2008 Professional Edition, Visual Studio 2005 Professional Edition, Expression Studio, XNA Game Studio 2.0, SQL Server Developer Edition, Windows Server Standard Edition, and its Web and graphic design toolset. 

So far, Microsoft is offering DreamSpark to more than 35 million college students in Belgium, China, Finland, France, Germany, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, the U.K., and the U.S reported PC World. Microsoft plans to broaden the program to Australia, the Czech Republic, Estonia, Japan, Lithuania, Latvia, and Slovakia over the next six months.

"I've always believed in getting developers at as young an age as possible," said Bill Gates, Microsoft Chairman, in an interview with Channel 8.  "These are the tools that people can build a career around or they can just build fun software for themselves. The basics of understanding how good architecture works, the data structures ... those have been the same for the last 30 years. Fundamentally, the skills of design, of knowing what good code looks like -- that is going to be valuable for at least the next three decades."

Currently, the DreamSparks program is available to students whose focus include technology, design, math, science, and engineering.

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cool but ....
By mforce on 2/20/2008 3:03:49 AM , Rating: 2
While I do understand Microsoft's reasons for doing this I don't really think they're doing it "for the kids". It's a clever thing to get people used to their products and developer tools. It's well known that once you write code with MS tools it's useless for anything other than Windows.
They do have a point however with youngsters learning the basics of coding and such. But I don't think people really need MS tools for that. Eclipse for instance is a much better IDE than Visual Studio in my opinion and Java is just as easy as C#. Mysql is good enough to learn SQL and database access.
I think it's important for people just getting into computing to realize that although MS would have you believe otherwise there are good alternatives out there ,you can write cross-platform software and use open source tools which have and will always be free.




RE: cool but ....
By Pirks on 2/20/08, Rating: 0
RE: cool but ....
By wordsworm on 2/20/08, Rating: 0
RE: cool but ....
By eye smite on 2/20/2008 8:37:19 AM , Rating: 4
He he, I'm just chuckling here, don't get sideways on me........does anyone remember the last time MS gave out free woftware and people kept signing up for a free copy of Office 2k7.......and even though they couldn't get it after the deadline MS put monitoring software on their systems anyway, you remember that? lol

I'm just leery of MS period from a long time back. <---------Still chuckling.


RE: cool but ....
By wordsworm on 2/20/08, Rating: 0
RE: cool but ....
By eye smite on 2/20/2008 12:04:07 PM , Rating: 4
Hehe tell me about it. I have both of those MS's and I think taking the shot everyday is more pleasant than dealing with new stuff from the corporation known as MS. :-)


RE: cool but ....
By kzrssk on 2/20/2008 6:42:25 PM , Rating: 1
Manual transmission is WAY easier than Linux. It was all they had before automatic transmissions, so it had to be easy enough for everyone to do. Computers have never been that way. You have to be smart enough for computers (and Linux), rather than the computers (and Linux) being dumb enough for you.


RE: cool but ....
By Pirks on 2/20/2008 11:50:07 AM , Rating: 4
Linux is not cheaper in the long run, especially if you run a large enterprise, 'cause you might pay some Redhat or IBM support people a lot more than you'd pay MS support. You just sound like another Penguin fanboy. And if you try to do real admin work both on the newest MS server 2008 and some modern Linux distro and compare them - you'll quickly feel the power and complexity of MS admin tools in 2008, especially their Power Shell thing. But who from Penguin fanboys does real work? None really. If you had experience with Mac, Windows and Linux like I do you wouldn't be spewing all this fanboyish bs here, believe me.

And all this funny bs about "cheaper" Linux hardware - muahahahaha, I heard soo much of this bs before that I'm not even going to discuss it. I wanna see some decent large enterprise datacenter built on your Linux "cheap" hardware, haha!


RE: cool but ....
By HighWing on 2/20/2008 12:01:40 PM , Rating: 2
I second this. Out of High school I started playing with Linux because it was free. However, when I came to my current position I was able to play with both and quickly found MS Server to be 10x better AND FASTER at doing complex LDAP administration. This year however, my business went to a Linux backend and we have had nothing but trouble all year long. Things that were never an issue with the MS server now become major bugs that can take hours or days to fix. Plus out of the box we have found a complete lack of support for many features we used to use and have been forced to find third party apps that don't work as well as what we had in box with MS.


RE: cool but ....
By Pirks on 2/20/08, Rating: 0
RE: cool but ....
By murphyslabrat on 2/20/2008 3:32:45 PM , Rating: 2
The bit about "cheaper linux hardware" is a reference to the fact that there are versions of Linux (Damn Small Linux) that can run on an old 486, or run on a Pentium II or III with a far smoother experience than with Windows XP.

Linux has its place. It is not God, but it is not Satan either.


RE: cool but ....
By Pirks on 2/20/2008 3:55:19 PM , Rating: 2
You can run older versions of Windows like Win98 on the older hardware as well, so this is moot point. There is not a lot of difference between Linux and Windows in that sense, both run great on old and cheap hardware, no matter what Linux and Mac fanboys are trying to spew around here.

Just pick a proper version of Windows or proper Linux distro, otherwise it's all the same stuff.

However, the real important thing I stressed in my original post here is that it's pretty stupid idea to develop commercial apps for Linux and mostly for Mac nowadays, because of their laughable market share and pathetic development tools, compared with latest .NET and VS offerings from MS. But open source free software development - sure, no problem, you're more than welcome. Use your gcc Luke, or whatever ;)


RE: cool but ....
By mforce on 2/20/2008 7:00:58 PM , Rating: 2
I'm sorry but you're just either biased or not too well informed which is a pity considering this a place where people should at least be well informed. You just can't use win98 anymore , there's really no support anymore for it, it's not very stable and probably has tons os security issues. You could if you really wanted to but there are special Linux distros that will do the job better IMO.

Now I'm not one of those people to say MS and Windows is crap. Altough I'm a Linux fan I'm using Windows right now to type this so don't get me wrong here.
But this was about development tools and I still feel you don't really need to use what MS provides you with. Of course Windows has a huge market share but there are still people out there that don't have or want windows. What are you going to to , tell them to install Windows to run you limited software or otherwise just go ahead and f*ck off ?

As for the tools themselves maybe you guys should really try and see how java works in Eclipse , try and learn all the features Eclipse has. I work in both Eclipse and Visual Studio 2008 and while VS is a lot faster it really lacks some features compared to Eclipse. Also why mysql probably won't be used in places where Oracle is needed it's goog enough to learn sql on. PHP is also an asy crossplatform language you can learn and it's fater than ASP , I can tell you because I converted a site from ASP to PHP.

I'm not saying Linux or Mac are the thing and such but please try and stay open minded and don't be ignorant. Sometimes some of you people sound like MS marketing agents , Windows has the marketshare , Linux is more expensive , Windows servers run better. Come on , get real.


RE: cool but ....
By Pirks on 2/20/2008 9:12:14 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
You just can't use win98 anymore , there's really no support anymore for it, it's not very stable and probably has tons os security issues.
If you gonna use that ancient museum 486 computer from your grandgrandma to run your beloved Linux on - then you should be prepared for all sorts of bugs and troubles anyway because the hardware is so old it's likely to fail before even Win98 fails. So this is moot point.
quote:
I still feel you don't really need to use what MS provides you with.
And I still feel that if MS provides me with a superior dev platform in a form of .NET and VS combined, I must be a fool not to use that platform for Windows software development.
quote:
What are you going to to , tell them to install Windows to run you limited software or otherwise just go ahead and f*ck off ?
Well, what do you think gaming studios or many other major software shops like Adobe tell the Linux fans when asked to port this and that to Linux? Okay, they're not telling you Linux guys to f... off, they tell you to buzz off 'cause they are polite. I'm not such a polite guy as them, hence... you guessed what my my answer would be, now didn't you? :-) Just look around and see what software development shops often tell Linux users and you get the idea. Maybe I'll be polite as well, but I can't promise! Depends on my mood.

Yeah, you right that Linux can be used to learn this and that in programming, but learning Windows coding skills guarantees you a decent job 'cause Windows is absolutely EVERYWHERE, which unfortunately can't be said about learning Linux or Mac coding. Hence my point about wasting your time on Linux or Mac. Unless you're a big open source fan and really willing to donate all your free time to comminity and make world better place etc etc. In this case yes, Linux is a perfect platform to hone your coding skills on. Well, for Apple fanatics the answer is obvious as well.

You think I'm ignorant because you didn't understand my point about difference between commercial software development and open source software development. Linux or Mac is not too bad for developing open source stuff, but it's a joke for developing complex high-end commercial apps (Mac has a couple of exceptions in some narrow markets like NLE apps). There's no market to sell this stuff, 'cause Linux market share (and Mac market share too) is a joke.


RE: cool but ....
By murphyslabrat on 2/27/2008 10:21:42 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
but it's a joke for developing complex high-end commercial apps

You are right, there is not much of a market there, as it is a mere %15 of the total PC market. However, using libraries like MonoDevelop, it becomes quite feasible

quote:
And I still feel that if MS provides me with a superior dev platform in a form of .NET and VS combined, I must be a fool not to use that platform for Windows software development.

Meh, it's a matter of opinions. Mono is a better alternative to .Net, as it provides not only equivalent functionality, but a wider customer-base as well. And VS? Try some other IDEs, a lot of them are quite good.

The bottom line is that Linux is not quite ready for mass distribution, but it is ready for someone interested in software development. You definitely need to try it before you denounce it, pure and simple.


RE: cool but ....
By kzrssk on 2/20/2008 6:39:02 PM , Rating: 2
They DO offer 2008. If you go to the downloads page, you can get both 2005 and 2008.


RE: cool but ....
By InternetGeek on 2/20/2008 4:10:00 AM , Rating: 2
You can actually get the express version of vs.net for free. WIth vs.net 2005 pro you can do a lot of stuff as well. Just not in .net 3.5.


RE: cool but ....
By Spivonious on 2/20/2008 9:18:51 AM , Rating: 2
Actually, you can develop for .NET 3.5 in VS2005, you just lose out on the WPF designer tools that are in VS2008.


RE: cool but ....
By TomZ on 2/20/2008 9:53:45 AM , Rating: 1
Actually, the program includes VS2008, not VS2005, so you can use the WPF designer.


RE: cool but ....
By jvillaro on 2/20/2008 10:07:00 AM , Rating: 2
And theres VS Express 2008 with the WPF Designer.


RE: cool but ....
By Lord 666 on 2/20/2008 10:34:45 AM , Rating: 1
Even better is to get W2K8, SQL2008, and VS2008 for free at the launch event. Signed up for the NYC one

http://www.microsoft.com/heroeshappenhere/register...


RE: cool but ....
By tedrodai on 2/20/2008 4:29:19 PM , Rating: 2
Surely there's a registration cost with those events? Some employers prefer us to be at work, rather than take the opportunity to pay a registration fee on top of our salary for us to skip a day for some promotional speeches and free software goodies. I.E. I wouldn't call it free, but a great opportunity for those that can make it.


RE: cool but ....
By kzrssk on 2/20/2008 6:51:51 PM , Rating: 2
It's free.


RE: cool but ....
By Lord 666 on 2/20/2008 10:09:11 PM , Rating: 1
Yes, its all totally free; t-shirts, lunch, software, and a little brainwashing. Was at the Office 2003 and SQL 2005 launch events and they were presented well. I still use that full premium copy of Office 2003 and tried to upgrade a Callmanager 4.1 (non-production) server to SQL2005 without success. Thats the intention of the software... get it in the hands of people to play with it in the hopes they will later recommend it or sign off the PO for it.

But let's chat about your other concerns. If you are already in the IT industry, your employer/manager should have no problem letting you go to this... unless they do not want you to advance your skills. Any good manager will look at opportunities like this, especially free ones, for their employees to get skills and knowledge for the future. It demonstrates that you have self-starting ability and eager look outside what is provided to you within the work setting.

One example of a manager not wanting you to go would be if you are techsupport staff who reports to a network admin, I can see how they would not want you to go... but thats only because they are concerned that you might get an edge over them.


RE: cool but ....
By Spivonious on 2/21/2008 9:48:13 AM , Rating: 2
Hmm...I may have to convince my boss to let me go to the Harrisburg one.


RE: cool but ....
By Sunday Ironfoot on 2/20/2008 4:24:01 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
It's well known that once you write code with MS tools it's useless for anything other than Windows.


That's not true at all. You can develope websites in ASP.NET hosting on Windows Server and MS SQL Server and it can be accessed by anyone with an internet connection regardless of whether it's Linux, Mac, iPhone or Windows.

Also .NET client Windows apps can be made to run on Linux and Mac using something called MONO, an open source port of the .NET Framework.

The only thing that's truely Windows only is SQL Server but any .NET app can easily connect to a MySQL database as well.


RE: cool but ....
By jvillaro on 2/20/2008 10:20:08 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
You can develope websites in ASP.NET hosting on Windows Server

You can host them on linux with apache also!


RE: cool but ....
By Spivonious on 2/20/2008 9:24:25 AM , Rating: 4
Eclipse is by far the worst IDE I've ever used. I much prefer NetBeans for Java code.

VS2005 is by far the best IDE I've ever used. Loads better than VS6, VS2002, and VS2003.

As far as Java vs. C#, yes, they're equally easy to learn, but so are VB, C++, C, Perl, PHP, etc.

MySQL is good enough to learn with, but show me a company who uses it. Every company that's not some web design startup uses either Oracle or SQL Server.

Bottomline, this isn't for "youngsters learning the basics of coding"; it's for college students. What I'm confused about is how this program is new. I got all of these things free from the MSAA in college.


RE: cool but ....
By jvillaro on 2/20/2008 10:15:54 AM , Rating: 2
Couldn't agree more... Oh and VS 2008 is even better!
I could not see myself using anything else for software development unless its a complement like Expression Blend for advanced WPF.


RE: cool but ....
By TomZ on 2/20/08, Rating: -1
RE: cool but ....
By wien on 2/20/2008 11:33:29 AM , Rating: 2
Huh. "sudo apt-get install kdevelop". Yeah, that was real tricky. You can even use the GUI Add/Remove programs util to so the same thing if the command-line scares you.

There are a lot of legitimate complaints against Linux developer tools, but ease of installation isn't one of them.


RE: cool but ....
By BigToque on 2/20/2008 10:58:17 PM , Rating: 2
How does someone know to type that?

Maybe it tells you in some MAN page? Look on the internet?

I'm sorry, but until you can pop in a CD and click the "install" button that pops up automatically, linux isn't for the everyday user.


RE: cool but ....
By wien on 2/21/2008 2:19:05 PM , Rating: 2
I already said there's a GUI for doing the exact same thing. Right on the "start menu" in most distros. It's just easier to provide the command in a post here. If the everyday user can't manage a dead simple GUI app, they'd have problems tying their shoes in the morning, much less install and operate a programming IDE.

Or is it the insertion of optical media that makes installation instantly fathomable for the average user?


Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
By animedude on 2/20/2008 2:59:29 AM , Rating: 1
No love for Canadian from Microsoft.




RE: Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
By Pirks on 2/20/08, Rating: -1
RE: Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
By Rob Pintwala on 2/20/08, Rating: 0
RE: Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
By Pirks on 2/20/2008 12:11:41 PM , Rating: 1
You conveniently forgot famous Canadian double sales tax (15% or so) that you pay on top, so just stop spreading lies about "lower" prices in Canada. Newegg can't be beat in Canada by definition because in the US in most cases you will NOT pay any damned sales tax if you buy from them. Your "lower" local prices mean sh1t because you have Canadian double sales tax, buddy :P


By eye smite on 2/20/2008 8:42:26 AM , Rating: 2
Ok now this is interesting. I ordered some ram yesterday morning from directron.com, yes they're a bit more. I ordered from them cause I'm a couple hrs away and it will get here next day UPS to my house. So you can see why I'd pay a bit more. The interesting part that I haven't seen in the several yrs I've ordered from this site is that UPS lists it as a 50lb package. lol I wonder if that's just a flat rate on shipping. I mean there's no way 2/512mb ddr2 800 sticks of ram weigh 50lbs. hehe


RE: Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
By jjlee on 2/20/2008 10:29:52 AM , Rating: 4
Canada is listed on Microsoft's DreamSpark site.

https://downloads.channel8.msdn.com/Default.aspx


RE: Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
By Pirks on 2/20/08, Rating: -1
By KristopherKubicki (blog) on 2/20/2008 4:21:09 PM , Rating: 2
The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence.


They've had this for years...
By DanoruX on 2/20/2008 12:48:11 PM , Rating: 2
Except it's called MSDNAA...




By JoshuaBuss on 2/20/2008 7:04:13 PM , Rating: 2
yeah, where's the mention of the MSDNAA? Hundreds of CS students from the University of Illinois at Chicago have been enjoying the free goodies we get from microsoft for years..


By Spivonious on 2/21/2008 10:33:32 AM , Rating: 2
Yeah, that's where I got my copy of XP Pro and VS2003.


My University isn't on the list!
By AnnihilatorX on 2/20/2008 4:49:37 AM , Rating: 2
My University isn't on the list in the UK where many others are. Hm weird




By BruceLeet on 2/20/2008 12:10:43 PM , Rating: 2
Send a letter to the board


VS2008 Pro, not VS2005 Pro
By TomZ on 2/20/2008 9:46:16 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
The software included in the DreamSparks program includes Visual Studio 2005 Professional Edition

Incorrect, the program includes Visual Studio 2008 , not 2005. That's a big difference - Microsoft is giving away their latest-and-greatest, not the old version. Most pro devs haven't even started using VS2008 yet it is so new.




RE: VS2008 Pro, not VS2005 Pro
By Pirks on 2/20/08, Rating: -1
RE: VS2008 Pro, not VS2005 Pro
By jasonroehm on 2/20/2008 12:33:14 PM , Rating: 3
Actually, VS2005 is available on DreamSpark:

https://downloads.channel8.msdn.com/Products/VS_20...

They offer both versions.


By Simen1 on 2/21/2008 4:32:47 AM , Rating: 2
Microsoft Offers Students EXPENSIVE PROPRIETARY Design, Development Software AT NO COST ONLY AS LONG AS THEY ARE STUDENTS.

Taken right out of a drug dealers strategy plan.




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