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Microsoft labels cheaters as such  (Source:
Microsoft gets medieval on cheaters obsessed with Achievements

“Cheaters never win,” as the saying goes, and Microsoft is making it apply to users of its Xbox Live service.

Today, those who have used exploits to artificially boost their Gamerscore, a numerical score presented alongside an Xbox 360 gamer’s profile account signifying their in-game achievements, found that Microsoft has reset their score to zero.

“Today we took action on some of the accounts we have identified as the most serious offenders who have violated the Xbox LIVE Terms of Use by tampering with their Gamerscore and Achievements,” explained Xbox Live community manager Larry Hyrb.

Hyrb last year on his Major Nelson blog warned potential cheaters not to share their Xbox Live accounts or tamper with game save files for the sake of boosting one’s Gamerscore.

Besides resetting a cheater’s entire Gamerscore back to zero, the Xbox Live account will be unable to regain all previously obtained achievements. Such players, however, will have the ability to gain future achievements by earning them fairly.

Even more, those who have been targeted by Microsoft will be clearly labeled as a cheater in the dashboard and for the community to view on the Xbox website. Microsoft has created an example of a cheater account here for public viewing.

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By Malhavoc on 3/26/2008 8:08:41 AM , Rating: 1
How long until the lawsuits start?

RE: Joy!
By Marvlarv on 3/26/2008 8:11:52 AM , Rating: 2
probably in one month

RE: Joy!
By aeroxander on 3/26/2008 8:47:28 AM , Rating: 2
what are the lawsuits going to do?

RE: Joy!
By 16nm on 3/26/2008 9:14:37 AM , Rating: 5
Make lawyers rich.

RE: Joy!
By kkwst2 on 3/26/2008 12:24:24 PM , Rating: 2

RE: Joy!
By KernD on 3/26/2008 8:45:14 AM , Rating: 2
So you think people who get caught will sue? or people who lose there points by mistake, which may never happen...

RE: Joy!
By wannabemedontu on 3/26/2008 9:13:46 AM , Rating: 5
Lawsuits for what? If you cheat, you stink. It's about time someone takes action on these low lifes that cheat honest gamers out of a good gaming experience. Why is it someone want's to sue when they are made to do what they should be doing in the first place, play honestly. Geez, does it matter to anyone that there are so many cheaters out there?

RE: Joy!
By ViRGE on 3/26/08, Rating: -1
RE: Joy!
By PAPutzback on 3/26/2008 9:26:22 AM , Rating: 5
Well if you cheat and get achievements some games give you better weapons. Take COD4 instance. More acheivements opens up longer sprints, increased health, the ability to cause more damage.

I think gamer points are gay anyways. They don't mean much other than show a scale of what life you have outside of the game. A high score means you spend way to much time playing. Get a ripstick and get outside.

RE: Joy!
By Regs on 3/26/2008 10:03:04 AM , Rating: 3
I like playing baseball in -10 degree weather.

RE: Joy!
By Regs on 3/26/2008 11:01:02 AM , Rating: 2
Ok, maybe I should make my point a little clearer....

People who don't suck at the game, usually people who are good at it or take the time to get good at it, normally play it a lot.

I won't sit at a park all day playing volleyball getting frustrated at myself every 2 seconds. I would move onto another game or activity!

RE: Joy!
By wannabemedontu on 3/26/2008 9:59:49 AM , Rating: 4
Well ViRGE, I think PAPutzback said it best:

"Well if you cheat and get achievements some games give you better weapons. Take COD4 instance. More acheivements opens up longer sprints, increased health, the ability to cause more damage"

If you don't see that as an unfair, unearned advantage and a cheat, than you either don't play games and know nothing, or are a cheat yourself. No real skills involved if you gain it all with cheats.

RE: Joy!
By Legolias24 on 3/26/2008 10:46:50 AM , Rating: 3
"Well if you cheat and get achievements some games give you better weapons. Take COD4 instance. More acheivements opens up longer sprints, increased health, the ability to cause more damage"

Bear in mind that I play CoD4 on my PS3; I thought the "longer sprinting" or "increased bullett damage" (etc.) perks were only unlockable as you play online and gain experience through kills and victories; not through cheating during a solo campaign. That's the way the PS3 version works anyway; does the 360 version work a bit differently?

The CoD4 example may not be the best example to use for answering the question "how does cheating to gain achievements affect other players?". Cheating isn't right in principle and practice. But sometimes, there is nothing more satisfying then switching on "God Mode", grabbing a Peon and proceed to utterly decimate your computer opponent; thereby exacting a measure of revenge for all the times you had to restart a map because you kept losing! :P (sorry...I just had a flashback to my youth and playing Warcraft 2; I had a problem with one of the maps :P)

But when cheating is used to gain the upper hand over a flesh and blood opponent, that's just lame and you deserve to get pwned by Microsoft as they take away your achievements!

RE: Joy!
By tdawg on 3/26/2008 11:12:41 AM , Rating: 2
Correct, COD4 achievements and XP points are two separate things. You get xbox achievements by completing aspects of the game, but it doesn't unlock anything for use against others. You gain XP points to unlock perks by playing MP against others online. The better player you are, the quicker you unlock new perks.

Cheating to get achievements seems utterly pointless. The only way I can think it would affect others is during those MS contests to see how many achievement points you can earn in a given period to win prizes. And since MS can tell if you're cheating, it's a no-go there as well.

RE: Joy!
By Legolias24 on 3/26/2008 11:17:17 AM , Rating: 2
ThanksTdawg, I thought that was the case. It didn't make sense to me why Infinity Ward/Activision would set the multiplayer up so differently on either system.

Boo cheating! Yay for gamer skills! :D

RE: Joy!
By Vanilla Thunder on 3/26/2008 10:11:36 AM , Rating: 2
The only people who would defend cheaters, are cheaters themselves. I've never understood why someone would want to cheat at a game. Where is the gratification in winning anything, when you can't lose? I say kudos MS, keep the field level.


RE: Joy!
By rdeegvainl on 3/27/2008 4:06:37 PM , Rating: 3
It's not always about winning, sometimes, you just want to finish a game and see the story. Is there an option to turn off the achievements when in that scenario? I don't LIVE so I don't know how it works.

RE: Joy!
By masher2 on 3/26/2008 11:35:58 AM , Rating: 2
> "How on earth do you cheat (i.e. negatively affect other users) at your own game? "

So you're saying its impossible to cheat at solitaire? Cheating doesn't necessarily involve "negatively affecting other players".

RE: Joy!
By kkwst2 on 3/26/2008 12:34:50 PM , Rating: 2
I think the point of the post was really "Who cares". Do you care if someone cheats at solitaire? Sure, technically they violated the rules, but who gives a shit?

I'm not saying I agree with the point, but I must say I'm pretty ambivalent about is issue.

I also could empathize with, say, a guy who lets his little brother use his account and gets it reset. Not all cheating is created equal.

RE: Joy!
By ViRGE on 3/26/2008 7:15:50 PM , Rating: 2
That's exactly what I'm saying. For cheating to be a "bad" thing, someone has to be harmed. If all you're doing is unlocking a bunch of SP challenges for yourself, who am I to care? It's your game.

Or is there something I'm missing here? I'm a PC-only gamer, so I don't have a 360 nor have used one for more than a few minutes. The achievements thing crosses me as an oddity; they gave you challenges to add depth to a game (a good thing) and then they make the results of this public, turning it in to an e-peen contest.

I can't see how MS has a stake in any of this, if someone wants to ruin their own gaming experience*, that should be up to them.

* Note, I'm specifically talking about achievements here. When we're talking about real cheating and hacking, like aimbots, wallhacks, and other methods that give a player an advantage in a MP game, then I'm clearly against that. In fact I've been rather surprised the 360's closed-platform design hasn't been more cheat resistant

RE: Joy!
By InsaneGain on 3/26/2008 1:24:14 PM , Rating: 2
I guess you can interpret the term "cheating" as unfairly gaining advantage over another entity for the purposes of gaining something of value. Cheating against yourself doesn't make sense. How do you gain an advantage over yourself? What thing of value would you be gaining, psychological or otherwise? Cheating in Solitaire would simply not be playing Solitaire; it would be the act of placing cards down with no particular rules. You would know that completing a pattern of cards would mean absolutely nothing, unless you are completely delusional. The only rational motivation I can think of is maybe the cheater could call someone over to see the apparently completed goal, positively influencing that person's opinion of the cheater's skill. This introduces another entity however, and then this could be considered an act of cheating this entity.

RE: Joy!
By Carter642 on 3/26/2008 9:14:13 AM , Rating: 5
There won't be any lawsuits, the EULA basically gives MS the right to do anything they want with your Live account.

RE: Joy!
By superkdogg on 3/26/2008 11:20:28 AM , Rating: 2
Gamerscore has no value so you can't sue for the loss of something worth nothing.

EULA too ^^^^

MS took back something that was theirs to begin with. Players don't own the accounts, they just buy the right to use XBL within the EULA.

RE: Joy!
By Malhavoc on 3/26/2008 6:42:46 PM , Rating: 2
I was thinking more along the lines of defamation or the like. "Wah, you called me a cheater ... prove it or pay me!"

Down with cheating scum
By MrBlastman on 3/26/2008 9:58:55 AM , Rating: 5
I don't think I'm going to shed a tear for them.

Boo hoo. Good riddance. If you have to cheat to win in a game, or cheat to boost your stats, or do anything else unscrupulous - you get what you deserve when they catch you doing it.

I think it is pathetic that people cheat in school, cheat at work and in a RECREATIONAL activity such as gaming, and in this something as pitiful as "gamer scores" (I don't know, I don't have a 360 but I'm an avid PC gamer), it is really silly.

If you want your stats and scores to go up - get better at the game naturally. It really isn't that hard, and probably will be FUN trying to do so.

RE: Down with cheating scum
By afkrotch on 3/26/2008 10:09:33 AM , Rating: 2
You know what I find worse than that. Those users making themselves have lower score, so they can get into low ranking matches, just so they can pwn ppl who have been playing the game for like, 10 mins. While they have played for 2 years or some crap.

It'd be like John Doe logging into Steam and playing on server "CS 1.6 Noobies only" and having been playing CS since it first came out.

RE: Down with cheating scum
By MrBlastman on 3/26/2008 10:20:55 AM , Rating: 3
Yeah, that is pretty bad.

I don't see the point in them doing that unless they don't want to provide themselves a challenge in life.

I think in that instance they are only hurting themselves and perhaps benefitting their very shallow ego.

I've always relished a challenge online and having complete domination of the server can only be so fun for so long. Eventually I find myself wanting a solid worthy opponent.

I guess this is why I compete in leagues/ladders etc. The only downside with those is peoples attitude tends to become poor very quickly when stakes are at hand.

RE: Down with cheating scum
By nbachman on 3/26/2008 11:10:49 AM , Rating: 2
That has really been irking me lately on Halo 3. People start new Xbox live accounts. It is like pretending to be mentally handicapped in order to win the Special Olympics.

RE: Down with cheating scum
By Sazar on 3/26/2008 2:44:42 PM , Rating: 2
Cartman did it.

RE: Down with cheating scum
By phil126 on 3/26/2008 3:39:31 PM , Rating: 2
And still lost. :)

XBOX live and Cheaters
By wolfpack1825 on 3/26/2008 11:42:47 AM , Rating: 4
The whole reason I bought a 360 and a paid live account was to reduce cheating. I like the fact that every machine is the same and most are using the same controllers. (A Level playing field) Those who hack or modify there xbox are losers plain and simple. I don't care if you buy or don't buy your game, but I do care if you modify to take advantage of others for the purpose of cheating. Cheaters are the worst sort of scum and unfornatley they don't learn that games are about fun.

I was in a clan for years and had a blast at the game ut99, but then the modders and hackers came in and destroyed it. I have been an avid pc player, but cheating is so bad I rarley look for any games on my pc anymore. Sad truth cheaters take away from anything that is fun. So in a nutshell hats off to Microsoft for doing something about the pigs.


RE: XBOX live and Cheaters
By wannabemedontu on 3/26/2008 11:54:00 AM , Rating: 2

RE: XBOX live and Cheaters
By LatinMessiah on 3/26/2008 1:57:54 PM , Rating: 2
Amen, brotha'. Preach on, playa'!

They need to do this in WoW
By EODetroit on 3/26/2008 9:26:32 AM , Rating: 4
Blizzard hands out suspensions when they catch people cheating in WoW, but it takes getting caught over and over to get banned permanently. They need to take a lesson from what Microsoft just did, take away cheaters' gear, and label all their characters for everyone to see. Perhaps a title that can't be removed.

RE: They need to do this in WoW
By callmeroy on 3/26/2008 10:31:43 AM , Rating: 2
Amen bruda, WoW needs it big time... The cheating going on in WoW is rampant - especially in BGs.

Too bad the worse "cheat" there is no solution for -- folks buying and selling gold.

But anyway back to the Microsoft thing - good for them. I applaud MS in this effort , especially in today's world where so much that is "not right, ethical or moral" is treated as "so what, who cares" other words we are de-sensitized to so much.

By Orbs on 3/26/2008 1:33:35 PM , Rating: 2
? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? B A (start)

RE: Cheat
By Orbs on 3/26/2008 1:34:43 PM , Rating: 3
Those question marks were the symbols for:

Up, up, down, down, left, right, left, right

It worked in the preview guys!!

They must be doing this because...
By therealnickdanger on 3/26/2008 8:21:29 AM , Rating: 2
... they are going to roll out their "achievement buyer's program" or whatever it's going to be called. They've been talking a long time about achievement points earning gamers the ability to get buy special content or get discounts. Naturally, you can't have "counterfeit money" on Live if you're going to pull off such a task.

By Marvlarv on 3/26/2008 8:26:05 AM , Rating: 2
true, but this is my first time I heard of this, so I will of course check the site

keyboard and mouse
By 7Enigma on 3/26/2008 8:49:18 AM , Rating: 1
Hmm, I wonder if they will be able to do this with those people using keyboards and mice instead of the controllers. My BIL has a 360 and I want to rip my hair out everytime I try to play Halo3 with him (I'm a PC guy), but I read about a way to use a keyboard/mouse to play.

I go over there maybe once a month to play and had thought about investing the $50 or so to actually enjoy gaming with him. I'd hate for his stats to get wiped out if Microsoft ever found a way to detect it (something like spinning around too quickly/etc).

RE: keyboard and mouse
By RobFDB on 3/26/2008 9:32:12 AM , Rating: 2
Well I imagine that if a game can track accuracy and perhaps how well you "lock on" another player (i.e. if you swing the cursor over the player and then have to adjust etc) a mouse/keyboard combo would look like and aimbot to a controller player.

How Microsoft Won the War...
By i3arracuda on 3/26/2008 10:49:42 AM , Rating: 3
this is sad.
By TomCorelis on 3/26/2008 3:02:02 PM , Rating: 1
I'm not quite sure I like this. No way to appeal? How do we know Microsoft's detection algorithm is truly fair? Didn't any of you guys read The Scarlet Letter?

RE: this is sad.
By SlyNine on 3/26/2008 6:30:57 PM , Rating: 2
I'm honestly done with Xbox live. I didn't have a problem with it until I bought Gears of War for my PC a month after my Xbox live subscription ran out.

Now I think its the biggest rip off and wont support it with my dollar.

Cheaters never win
By Marvlarv on 3/26/2008 8:04:42 AM , Rating: 2
And this is just an example. I never known about this but hay now I know not do this. ^_^

By javiergf on 3/26/2008 10:51:08 AM , Rating: 2
Do you guys remember this video?

I still don't get how you can cheat on games like COD4 or Halo3 with your Xbox 360, on the PC cheating on games like counterstrike was terrible....

Agent Zero your time has come
By MemphisTiger on 3/26/2008 11:22:16 AM , Rating: 2
Right now Im laughing knowing that Gilbert Arenas' gamerscore got reset and he is labeled as a cheater.

People cheat by doing just what he did. Buying more xbox live accounts, starting games with those accounts, killing the fake accounts over and over.

By tobro88 on 3/26/2008 1:22:44 PM , Rating: 2
I see a lot of comments like, "who cares" and "big deal", but I think that Microsoft MAY, I am not sure, but they may have done their homework on this one.

I used to play Counter Strike and DOD and I ended up giving up both games because others were cheating. It became too frustrating watching idiots headshot me through a wall and then run by jumping up and down like morons. It is hard not to take stuff like that personally because it is a skill based game. It would be like playing paintball and having one side with barriers to hide behind and the others stuck out in the open.

Those incidents were on individual servers and not on a company supported service like Live if I am correct. If enough people start to leave Live for the same reasons that I left the other games then it will cut into their bottom line.

I am not sure what advantages that these cheaters get for their trouble, but if it is performance based then I am glad that I am not playing the games. If the advantage is just prestige it is not such a big deal, but I would be just as frustrated watching others way outperform me daily.

By SlyNine on 3/26/2008 6:28:14 PM , Rating: 2
I only give a crap if they cheat online agianst other people, And if they do that. BAN THEIR ASS'S.

By DingieM on 3/27/2008 11:40:58 AM , Rating: 2
How is it possible to cheat on the Xbox360, do only hacked consoles unlock cheating options?

I must be missing something......
By HighWing on 3/27/2008 8:28:47 PM , Rating: 2
Ok now I don't own an Xbox so forgive me if this question has a simple answer.

But I fail to see how this would stop a cheater from just dumping that account, creating a new one and cheating all over again to regain those points?

Maybe I'm reading this too literal, but the article says "Today we took action" that implies that this was a one time deal. Are they going to continue to do this from now on? What kind of time frame does it take to catch a cheater and reset their score? If it takes them 2 months or more to catch a cheater and reset their scores, I'm sure the cheaters won't care and just do what I said above.

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