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A single Zune 80 on the left with four flash Zunes on the right  (Source: Microsoft)

Zune 80  (Source: Microsoft)

Zune 4/8  (Source: Microsoft)

Zune 4/8 (Pink) with Zune Dock  (Source: Microsoft)

Zune Marketplace  (Source: Microsoft)
Welcome to the Social: Part Deux

It's been nearly a year since Microsoft launched its Zune portable media player (PMP). Microsoft and consumers had high hopes for the player as details began to slowly leak out concerning the player.

The specs for the player were nothing groundbreaking: 3" QVGA color screen, 30GB HDD, FM tuner and the ability to playback video. The one feature that did pique the interest of consumers, however, was the inclusion of WiFi.

Ideas quickly formulated about what WiFi could possibly be used for on the Zune. There were possibilities of wireless music sharing with family and friends, wireless album syncing with a host computer and perhaps the ability to download music and videos direct from Microsoft via the Internet.

Microsoft fulfilled the music sharing wishes of consumers by giving them the ability to share full-length songs on a "3-day-or-3-play" DRM scheme. The ability to wirelessly sync media with a host computer and wirelessly purchase music tracks, sadly, was nowhere to be found.

Microsoft's first entry into the PMP market had some trouble gaining traction in the market. In March, the player was holding on to roughly 2.4 percent of the PMP market. Apple, SanDisk and Creative held steady at 73.7 percent, 9 percent and 3.3 percent respectively.

Microsoft made moves to push its Zune players on the public with special edition Halo 3 models and a more recent price drop from $249 to $199 – has even featured the slow-selling White Zune for a low $129.99 on its often irreverent site.

Today, the Zune has still barely improved on March's 2.4 percent tally with a total market share of 3 percent according to BetaNews.

Microsoft is looking to change all of this with its new generation of Zune players. The new flash Zunes, as reported on yesterday by DailyTech, will be available in 4GB (Zune 4) and 8GB (Zune 8) varieties. The former will be priced at $149, while the latter will feature a $199 price tag. Both will feature WiFi and the ability to play videos. The Zune 4 and Zune 8 measure 1.6” x 3.6” x 0.33” and will be available in black, green, pink and red.

In addition, Microsoft revealed a new second generation HDD-based Zune. The new $249 Zune 80 features an 80GB HDD (in place of the previous 30GB unit) and a larger 3.2" glass display screen (up from 3"). The new Zune 80 is also noticeably thinner than the first generation model. The Zune 80 measures 2.4” x 4.25” x 0.5” and will initially only be available in black.

All new Zunes features a new touch-sensitive "squircle" controller which Microsoft dubs the "Zune Pad." The Zune Pad is used to navigate through the Zune's menu system. Microsoft has added the ability to playback h.264 and MPEG-4 video on all new Zunes.

Microsoft is also righting at least one of its wrongs with the original Zune regarding WiFi -- all of the new Zunes will be able to wirelessly sync audio, video and photos with a host computer. Syncing occurs automatically when a Zune is within WiFi range of a host computer. This capability (along with the additional video code support) will be added to first generation Zunes with a firmware update (there is no word yet on the availability of said firmware update).

Microsoft revealed that the first generation Zune will now be known as the Zune 30 and will be sold alongside the Zune 80. The Zune 30 will retain the physical attributes of the first generation, but will come standard with the new Zune 80 user interface/firmware and product packaging.

Microsoft is also debuting new Zune Marketplace software to sync with the Zune. The Zune Marketplace will be home to DRM-free music tracks -- over one million of which will be available when the new Zunes launch.

Other loose ends include the news that part of the "3-day-or-3-play" sharing scheme has been dropped – Zune users will no longer have a 3-day restriction placed on shared music files, but the 3-play limit is still in effect. All Zunes will have the ability to import recorded content and media from Windows Media Center-enabled PCs (Windows Vista Home Premium and Windows Vista Ultimate). The Zune will still not have access to a wireless music store a la the iTunes Wi-Fi Music Store, but there will be support for podcasts (which can be shared between Zunes).

Microsoft isn’t taking the portable media player market lightly this time and it is going full bore against Apple. Microsoft still needs to work on getting a wireless music store in place to fully tackle the Apple juggernaut, but there’s always room for an update in the future.

As it stands now, Microsoft new generation of Zunes – especially the flash-based Zune 4 and Zune 8 -- are a welcome refresh and should help the Redmond software giant gain more market share in an iPod-dominated sector.

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Beautiful Lineup
By kibets on 10/3/2007 12:06:38 AM , Rating: 5
Microsoft Zune: Very nice complimentary colors and design.

Apple: shoddy incoherent looking product mix

Microsoft +1 IMO... now market the hell out of it... seriously I'd like one of each.

RE: Beautiful Lineup
By GoodBytes on 10/3/2007 1:19:54 AM , Rating: 3
If reviews are good, it means that Microsoft actually got it, and might be severe competition with Apple.

RE: Beautiful Lineup
By soydios on 10/3/2007 1:56:39 AM , Rating: 2
it looks good (not great, just a little bit better than iPod Touch & Classic, hence good) on paper, but we'll have to see how well and how soon the software implementation comes about.

RE: Beautiful Lineup
By JoshuaBuss on 10/3/2007 1:26:20 AM , Rating: 1
I agree about the nice-looking lineup.. those colors are all trendy and attractive. I especially like the green..

small sizes don't interest me at all though, so I hope to see a 160gb green variant for ~$299 soon :)

RE: Beautiful Lineup
By colonelclaw on 10/3/2007 9:35:26 AM , Rating: 4
heh, i was just thinking the green was the worst colour - far too close to snot for my liking. why couldn't they have made it a deep metallic racing green (a la Aston Martin)?

RE: Beautiful Lineup
By Oregonian2 on 10/3/2007 6:29:48 PM , Rating: 2
I agree with you. Green looks too 60/70's avocado colored. Rest looks pretty good colorwise. Makes me actually think seriously about the 80 (seeing as how I find the iPod touch that I had been waiting for (about a year) somewhat disappointing).

RE: Beautiful Lineup
By encryptkeeper on 10/3/2007 9:03:04 AM , Rating: 2
The problem is Microsoft's marketing is horrible. Or at least, it's horrible for the average consumer segment. Just about all Microsoft ads are geared towards businesses and business productivity. They're all something like this: "Do more with Windows Vista". Microsoft has always been excellent at leaving businesses with no choice but to buy from them, so they really don't know how to market to average users.

RE: Beautiful Lineup
By athlonotaku on 10/3/2007 9:22:56 AM , Rating: 2
M$ has plenty of cash.

Hiring a third party marketing/advertising company shouldn't be all that big of an expense for them.

RE: Beautiful Lineup
By themadmilkman on 10/3/2007 11:40:13 AM , Rating: 3
MS does. And they spend huge amounts of money paying an advertising agency to create their ads. But there's one problem, and is common among a large number of companies. The company paying the money gets the final say on what is advertised, how it is advertised, etc. There are literally thousands of examples of ad agencies creating excellent, creative ads that would likely help increase sales, only to have it shot down by some suit who doesn't "get it."

RE: Beautiful Lineup
By PrezWeezy on 10/3/2007 6:09:59 PM , Rating: 3
It is not MS that is giving business no choice. There are lots of choices. Any company that wants can use Mac, or Linux, or Sun. It's the fact that there are no real competitors to MS. And in my opinion, MS does a damn good job of their products. Sure they don't get them 100% every time, but after talking to them and having been an MCP for a while, I can tell you that they take consumer response very seriously. They at least try and give us what we want.

RE: Beautiful Lineup
By Mach Omega on 10/3/07, Rating: 0
RE: Beautiful Lineup
By Phynaz on 10/3/07, Rating: -1
RE: Beautiful Lineup
By TomCorelis on 10/3/2007 6:38:25 PM , Rating: 3
After reading about the extremely disappointing 160gb iPod classic, I'd seriously consider a Zune if it had the 160gb HD. The reason I own an iPod, after trying an Archos, and before that, Creative Nomad Jukebox 3, was because of the click wheel, and ONLY because of the click wheel. If the new Zune has that touch-sensitive things, and I can freely scroll up and down in my playlists without having to click or hold buttons, then I would snap one up in a heartbeat.

My only other concern is whether they can sync with Winamp like the ml_ipod plugin can sync with my iPod.

too much editoral in a news story.
By michal1980 on 10/3/07, Rating: 0
RE: too much editoral in a news story.
By TomZ on 10/3/2007 7:45:35 AM , Rating: 3
I was thinking the same thing when I read the article - I think Brandon got a bit carried away with the criticism of the first-gen offering.

By peritusONE on 10/3/2007 8:46:34 AM , Rating: 1
Yep, with a lot of articles here, you have to wade through 8 paragraphs of crap just to get to the article you came in to read about.

RE: too much editoral in a news story.
By rtrski on 10/3/2007 10:59:12 AM , Rating: 2
I'm not sure...I didn't find it excessively opinionated (maybe he edited it since you first commented?).

For one thing, this is a blog, not a news article. But for another, I think everything he said was not (or at least not solely) his own opinion but reporting the 'common criticism' on many review sites.

I admit I looked pretty hard at the Zune reviews when it first came out (I'm currently a Samsung Yap owner, but it's been tough to keep it limping along...every now and then it chooses to completely fubar its directory somehow and I have to reload everything) and not interested in an iPod. But the reviews I read certainly said pretty much what he summed up here, and convinced me to wait.

These second generation units sound pretty spiffy. But as before, I'll wait for more detailed reviews before dropping my cash. $250 isn't breaking the bank for me, but neither do I plan on throwing it away.

RE: too much editoral in a news story.
By TomZ on 10/3/2007 3:01:07 PM , Rating: 2
For one thing, this is a blog, not a news article

Not true, this article was published as a normal news article, not a blog post.

RE: too much editoral in a news story.
By michal1980 on 10/3/07, Rating: 0
RE: too much editoral in a news story.
By theapparition on 10/3/2007 12:49:46 PM , Rating: 3
But doesn't everyone else have freedom of speech too? That's what the rating system is for.

It's like the Dixie Chicks complaining for the backlash against them. They had every right to say what they did, but so did everyone else who had the right to burn their album and blacklist them.

If you truely believe what your saying, then why do you care what your rating is?

RE: too much editoral in a news story.
By michal1980 on 10/3/2007 2:24:20 PM , Rating: 2
Its getting old that I have to put in a code every time I want to post a message.

And with 2 many neg votes, my posts get hidden, thereby silencing me.

By themadmilkman on 10/3/2007 3:16:46 PM , Rating: 2
Not to offend, but um, you have no guarantee of free speech on an internet forum, especially on one where you have to register and agree to certain terms and conditions before you post.

By Phynaz on 10/3/2007 5:27:45 PM , Rating: 2
Or maybe you just post stupid stuff?

I went back and read your down modded posts. They deserved to not be read because most of the time your "facts" were flat out wrong.

What do you guys think?
By kristof007 on 10/3/2007 3:24:25 AM , Rating: 2
Could the wireless syncing be included as a firmware upgrade for the player and new update for WMP11? Or does it need something completely new. I mean if it has Wi-Fi abilities to connect to other players I am sure it could connect to a computer.

So why do you guys think Microsoft didn't include wireless syncing of libraries with this new Zune?

RE: What do you guys think?
By zombiexl on 10/3/2007 6:52:44 AM , Rating: 2
If its standard wifi i dont see why not. The hardware is there, its just a matter of tapping into it.

RE: What do you guys think?
By athlonotaku on 10/3/2007 9:25:26 AM , Rating: 2
If you made a lot of changes to your library --the sync process could take a while, probably draining a good portion of your battery.

RE: What do you guys think?
By tdawg on 10/3/2007 3:17:50 PM , Rating: 4
all of the new Zunes will be able to wirelessly sync audio, video and photos with a host computer. Syncing occurs automatically when a Zune is within WiFi range of a host computer. This capability (along with the additional video code support) will be added to first generation Zunes with a firmware update.

Right there in Brandon's article.

Does is support two most important features?
By defter on 10/3/2007 3:30:57 AM , Rating: 3
USB mass storage compatibility and USB-host?

I couldn't care less about what kind of DRM-crap it supports. Can I can plug it in any computer and transfer files without any additional bloated software and can I transfer pictures directly from camera to it (without any additional accessories).

By imaheadcase on 10/3/2007 8:13:18 AM , Rating: 3
Yah same here, I want to know that also. Thats why most people I know buy sandisk players cause of ease of use. Plug it in, opens up a drive letter to copy music to. ta ta done.

If you do that with the Zune 80 flash, im all over that like white on rice.

But if you are tied to some software then its not happening, I will store my music on windows home server and just copy it to my sandisk player when i want it. :P

iPod itself isn't the problem
By plewis00 on 10/3/2007 12:23:39 PM , Rating: 2
If like me you've finally had it with your iPod, it's not the device which is the problem, it's the software. I've spent the last few years with iPods but after a horrible experience with the iPod Classic including 2-3 minute boot time, no less than 5 random restarts and quite how slow Coverflow or that split-screen viewer on the side was I've returned it, kept my 5.5G iPod (which in the meantime was annoyingly sold on eBay). My problem is now transferring my music into Media Player (which is, I presume, what the Zune uses). The music will probably go across fine but all the associated data like Last Played, Play Count, Album Art (quite a big deal), etc. won't get transferred - and I don't know what Apple did to iTunes but the format for Album Art it tags the MP3 with is not compatible with any other device I've used which should support it (like the Nokia N-series, Media Player, etc.).

I don't want to sample a new player really just to find out later that it's a nightmare to transfer stuff onto it, even if on paper it really is as good as the Zune is made out to be. I can't be the only one in this position?

RE: iPod itself isn't the problem
By gloinsir on 10/3/2007 5:11:39 PM , Rating: 2
I've had such a terrible experience with Itunes 7.4 hosing my library.itl file every shutdown (its fine if I forcekill it) That I've also had to make the move to WMP11. Take a look at MusicBridge

It will migrate your album art, playlists, ratings, etc from Itunes to WMP11... and back if you ever move back. Great stuff and totally free.

RE: iPod itself isn't the problem
By plewis00 on 10/4/2007 5:04:09 AM , Rating: 2
Thanks I'll give that a shot when I get back to my desktop.

I always thought though that with iTunes (and Media Player) the album art was sorted in the MP3 file as part of the extended ID3 tag? Can this software really transfer it across? If yes, then it looks like it'll be goodbye iPod and Zune or Archos!

Wow - these actually look.... good!
By daggre on 10/3/2007 9:56:57 AM , Rating: 4
I've been scratching my head with "what was MS thinking?" when I looked at the 1st gen Zunes, but these are much nicer and closer to what I want. Personally I like iPod hardware but hate iTunes - too hard to sync and manage videos and music that don't come from Apple's store - and I'm intrigued by the WiFi auto sync these Zunes have.

I'll have to check these out once they're in stores. MS always seems to take 3 tries to get something REALLY right but their second tries (the 360, the new Zune) are sure getting better lately!

By ryedizzel on 10/4/2007 3:36:01 AM , Rating: 2
Maybe I'm blind but I couldn't find a release date anywhere in this article. My own research seems to point to October 16th, but I can't confirm that 100%.

By ryedizzel on 10/4/2007 3:46:19 AM , Rating: 2
By the way, you guys should check out this interesting patent Microsoft is pursuing. It basically allows YOU to make money off pirated music if you send a pirated song to a friend's Zune and they end up purchasing it legally after it's '3-play' expiration. This is a very interesting to see Microsoft (finally?) thinking outside the box:

good showing so far
By zaki on 10/3/2007 12:09:36 AM , Rating: 2
all seems to be up to par, design dont seem too appealing at first sight, but i could get used to it i guess especially with the "touch" sensitivity.
This puts the most pressure on non-apple mp3 companies like creative, who dont seem to be pushing too hard to compete. The new zen player just seems to take everything that is already out there and put it into an improved package.
Kudos for new features, in my opinion most new users can do just fine with most of the mp3 players out there today, so when new ones are introduced, I believe they really need to be on the cutting edge of innovation to get people to buy new mp3 players.

Anyone Else think....
By Dianoda on 10/3/2007 10:45:59 AM , Rating: 2
That Microsoft should have committed the marketing blunder that can only be referred to as the squircle? Personally, I prefer 'squircle' to 'zunepad'. It's lame in a good way.

Still need some work
By jeromekwok on 10/3/2007 1:39:18 PM , Rating: 2
I don't see too much reason to switch to Zune.

iPod has got excellent click wheel or touch. To me, it is mandatory to have to browse through my 10GB+ albums. Once you have click wheel, you don't want to go back. Just like scroll wheel of your mouse.

Second, in my opinion iPod looks stylish. Zune looks like other Chinaman music players in the market. Look is important to many people.

Third, in my opinion iTune is easier to use and looks better, eg cover flow. There is little benefit to re-encode all my songs to Windows Media for Zune. Also I have got nice video podcast shows.

I would also like to see how good the battery life of Zune is. Though the specification matches iPod, in real world use may differ. I would not get a player can't stand for more than 20 hours these days.

Just 2 cent.

J Allard is still alive?
By Staples on 10/3/2007 7:50:50 PM , Rating: 2
He dropped off the face of the Earth when the Xbox 360 launched.

Microsoft ups the ante
By hinchesk on 10/3/2007 10:29:44 PM , Rating: 2
They'll definitely sell more of these things than the original Zune. Might even put them in a position to compete with Sansa/Creative.

They've come a long way, brown mp3 player ?!?, anyway until they figure out a way to innovate they won't be much of a threat to the Apple... just another competitor to keep them on their toes.

Some features...
By hotel77 on 10/4/2007 1:35:41 AM , Rating: 2
don't appear on the spec listings.

I had the original zune, which I got for a really good deal ($150) from a friend when they were first released.

I think a lot of the features that come with the zune were overlooked, because they don't appear on a spec sheet. I have owned the iPod that came out right before the "video," the Mini and a Zune...which was stolen out of my car.

The most convenient yet overlooked feature of my zune was the fact that you can plug it in via USB and actually USE it. So I would bring it into work, plug it in via USB so I wouldn't use any battery. It didn't require any software to be installed (we can't, no admin rights) and just allowed the battery to be charged (or not used at all) while in use.

Also, the FM Radio is a blessing. Sometimes you're tired of listening to the same songs/movies you've watched before, ant it's nice to switch it up the the radio, or to listen to talk radio at your desk in the mornings. Also, the 2 gym's i've gone to have radio broadcasts for each TV they have up, so you can hear audio to games, CNBC, the local news, whatever, while working out.

I know a lot of the other players have FM radio's, but I think of this as much closer to the iPod, yet WITH an FM radio...Whereas it seems that some of the other players are sub par, with FM radio's. The 2 above features, to me, were worth having the Zune over an iPod, but the fact is you got those with a very big screen and better song scrolling UI than the iPod has.

The biggest downsides were the difficulty getting all the xvid/divx movies onto it, and the resolution of the screen. I didn't use the WiFi at all...I know they use it as a selling point, but it's really a non-issue for me until they actually make it really useful. Even if the thing didn't have WiFi, I still liked it better than an iPod...I hope that doesn't sound too much like a fanboi, because i'm anything but that...just thought I would throw in some things that most people really don't consider the iPod versus Zune comparisons.

I'm really excited for this refresh and plan on buying a flash version to work out with, and if I like it, probably the 80gig to share with the girlfriend on trips.

Too expenive...
By daftrok on 10/2/07, Rating: -1
RE: Too expenive...
By Brandon Hill on 10/2/2007 11:53:47 PM , Rating: 5
$249 is competitive with the 80GB iPod Classic (also $249), plus you get WiFi and a larger screen with the Zune 80.

Your other pricing schemes are INCREDIBLY optimistic. The cheapest 16GB flash player on the market now is the SanDisk Sansa View and it's $200.

The 30GB Zune 30/Classic is already sub $200 so they have the market covered... or so it seems.

RE: Too expenive...
By daftrok on 10/2/2007 11:57:07 PM , Rating: 2
But the Zune will stand out more in the market if its cheaper and not exactly the same price.

RE: Too expenive...
By Brandon Hill on 10/2/2007 11:58:41 PM , Rating: 2
It's Microsoft, there's always room for price cuts :)

And unlike Apple hardware, retailers have more leeway with sales and discounts on the players.

RE: Too expenive...
By TechLuster on 10/3/2007 12:40:18 AM , Rating: 5
Also unlike with Apple, Microsoft's new flash-based players don't look like crap.

I swear, when I first saw the new Nanos, my first thought was, "Oh look, the iPod Classic has a little brother with Down Syndrome!"

RE: Too expenive...
By daftrok on 10/3/2007 3:42:24 AM , Rating: 3
HAHA! Tell me about it. It's unique but they should have gone the ZEN route and made the player landscape instead of potrait.

RE: Too expenive...
By hrah20 on 10/3/2007 6:15:20 AM , Rating: 3
I have to admit that i'm starting to like the zune 80

RE: Too expenive...
By Naviblue on 10/3/2007 9:38:31 AM , Rating: 3
Yeah, but what's up with the color between the Hooker Red, Throw Up Green and Flurescent Pink, I think I'd go with the sleek looking Black but I wish there was another choice like Ivory White or something. Anywho, if it weren't so pricey, I'd probably pick up of these new Zunes.

You must be kidding
By robinthakur on 10/3/07, Rating: -1
RE: You must be kidding
By acer905 on 10/3/2007 7:18:07 AM , Rating: 1
Just a personal thing but i'd never waste my money on a player locked into a proprietary format and a single piece of software that i can't even replace the battery to.

My thoughts, screw the ipod and the zune. Both are still overpriced in comparison to the sansa view

RE: You must be kidding
By Mach Omega on 10/3/2007 6:49:19 PM , Rating: 2
You'd only waste money being locked into a proprietary OS. Hope you're using Linux.

RE: You must be kidding
By ghost101 on 10/3/2007 7:22:15 AM , Rating: 2
Im pretty sure they haven't been released in the UK yet.

RE: You must be kidding
By robinthakur on 10/3/2007 9:11:15 AM , Rating: 1
Ah ok, that would explain it, (I thought I have seen them for sale on UK websites tho)although the rationale behind that particular business decision indicates some lack of confidence on Microsoft's part on whether it would be an international embarassing failure or a domestic embarassing failure. The more times that people read about the teeny tiny market share of the Zune and the relative strength of the iPod, compared to Micrososft's dominance in other areas, it damages the Zune to the point where people won't buy it. I dislike being locked into DRM more than anything and that's why I use iTunes but don't buy music with DRM. I import it into iTunes and it works fine, fulfilling all my needs. If it didn't do this, then I wouldn't own an iPod...simple.

Everyone who i've shown the iPod Touch to has purchased one within a week. Nuff said. In my department (IT obviously) there are already about 10-11 people with one. Do you honestly think the Zune would have the same effect? They'd baulk at the name first of all, and then enquire whether it worked with iTunes...

Browsing the net wirelessly on Touch is soo much fun, but it makes me wish I bought an iPhone now because I always feel there are some icons mising on screen!! I might try and get my manager to get me one when they come out here in November to replace my Blackberry 8830. Having a non-user replaceable battery doesn't bother me especially as I never have an iPod long enough to need to replace the battery, I sell them on having kept them for, on average, a year and the batteries have always served me well.



RE: You must be kidding
By imaheadcase on 10/3/2007 10:08:08 AM , Rating: 2
Everyone who i've shown the iPod Touch to has purchased one within a week. Nuff said. In my department (IT obviously) there are already about 10-11 people with one. Do you honestly think the Zune would have the same effect? They'd baulk at the name first of all, and then enquire whether it worked with iTunes...

That just proves people in IT world also follow fads and not what is technically inferior product vs other mp3 players on market. Those 10-11 people including you also prob swear by macs and also pack freeze full of veggie burgers.

RE: You must be kidding
By ancient46 on 10/3/2007 12:12:02 PM , Rating: 2
Maybe if you had no prior affiliation with "iAnything" and had no Pavlovian reaction to Apple products, you might just have an open mind when contemplating a purchase. Then factors like sound quality, compatibility and your own personal requirements might be more important. With DRM free music sites popping up all over the net to meet the needs of companies dropping iTunes, I see no reason to use and load its bloatware if I don't purchase an iPod.

I do not currently own any portable, personal MP3 player, but if I do the Apple route does not look like the way to go for quality and ease of use.

RE: You must be kidding
By Mach Omega on 10/3/07, Rating: -1
RE: You must be kidding
By aebiv on 10/3/2007 4:56:14 PM , Rating: 2
Somebody didn't get hugged enough as a child...

RE: You must be kidding
By Mach Omega on 10/3/07, Rating: -1
RE: You must be kidding
By aebiv on 10/3/2007 5:33:37 PM , Rating: 3
That's what happens when you post that Troll-like comment on a site where a lot of people have open minds and eyes.

RE: You must be kidding
By Mach Omega on 10/3/2007 6:31:27 PM , Rating: 1
Hmmm, you're a troll if you criticize MS.... I guess that makes you a shill. Funny how "open minded" only includes when you say something positive about Microsoft. You're a punk-ass shill... stop hiding behind your keyboard and just admit it. This site is anything but "open minded." If that was the case, then people could admit that companies other than MS make great products.

RE: You must be kidding
By aebiv on 10/3/2007 6:50:39 PM , Rating: 2
Amazing how you go right into name calling and labels...

Maybe I am an MS "shill"... Wait, that would mean I'd need to not be typing this on a Mac, or running through my Suse gateway on my network.

Probably would have to throw away my Sharp Zaurus too...

I dunno, the price of becoming a "punk-ass shill" seems to high for me accept!!!!

I'll just stay open minded instead. ;)

RE: You must be kidding
By Mach Omega on 10/3/2007 7:01:52 PM , Rating: 2
I go "right into name calling and labels" when someone accuses me of not being "open minded" when I'm accused of "troll-like" behavior when you only have to look at these threads to see that I'm telling the truth. Any post on here that is critical of the Zune, regardless of how objective, has been rated down to -1.

I don't know how you can be so "open-minded" with your head up your ass.

RE: You must be kidding
By Oregonian2 on 10/3/2007 6:34:48 PM , Rating: 2
Everyone who i've shown the iPod Touch to has purchased one within a week. Nuff said.

Did you tell them about the $88 fee for a new battery? Did you tell them they don't send back the same unit, but a different one (probably one someone else sent in for a battery replacement earlier and has already been sent to China for the labor of replacing it) and how the new unit with the battery replaced could be one of those with the dark-detail problem (after you paid $88 and sent them your good one)?

RE: You must be kidding
By Mach Omega on 10/3/2007 6:40:13 PM , Rating: 1
Did you or any of your ass-hat Zune buddies tell anyone about its crashing firmware?

RE: You must be kidding
By swatX on 10/3/2007 7:57:50 PM , Rating: 2
people like you are the reason why public is getting dumber every second.

RE: You must be kidding
By aebiv on 10/4/2007 1:00:53 AM , Rating: 2
Exactly... Makes me think that there should be an IQ and emotional stability test before granting someone internet access...

RE: You must be kidding
By Uberpr0 on 10/4/2007 3:21:12 AM , Rating: 2
couldn't agree more

RE: You must be kidding
By Oregonian2 on 10/4/2007 6:41:44 PM , Rating: 2
Not sure why you make a personal attack on me that way. FYI I've no Zune and I've paid about $800 so far to Apple for iPods. I'm speaking from experience about sending big bucks to Apple. Are you speaking from personal experience as well (your Zune has been crashing?). My leading candidate alternative to the Touch (to replace the 60G video-iPod that "disappeared" on me in a hotel) is probably a Sandisk or Creative unit. You personally have any experience with those (through your own ownership) that you'd like to share?

P.S. - Both my 60G 5G iPods have in the past required multi-button salutes as well to recover from having crashed. A number of times. Again, my own personal experience.

"Vista runs on Atom ... It's just no one uses it". -- Intel CEO Paul Otellini
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