backtop


Print 80 comment(s) - last by JWalk.. on Aug 6 at 12:16 PM


Microsoft is trying hard to live up to the EU's expectations when it comes to browsers, introducing a balloting screen to Windows 7. Microsoft did express its frustration about the demands in a recent blog posting, though.  (Source: Blog CDN)

An official view of Microsoft's proposed browser ballot for Windows 7.  (Source: Microsoft)
Short-lived browser-free edition to be replaced with stock Windows 7 with ballot screen

Rather than deprive users of the ability to have Windows 7 come with Microsoft's marketshare-leading Internet Explorer, Microsoft decided to instead submit to the requests of Opera, Mozilla, and others and introduce a ballot screen to Windows 7.

The news marked the cancellation of the special Windows 7 E edition, which was to be released in Europe and ship without Internet Explorer.  Microsoft issued a blog/press release on the topic discussing the developments.  Microsoft writes, "(W)e are committed to making Windows 7 available in Europe at the same time it is available to consumers worldwide on October 22."

"To meet that goal, and in light of the Commission’s pending legal inquiry of our inclusion of IE in Windows, we decided last month that we would ship a unique version of Windows 7 in Europe—which we dubbed Windows 7 “E”—that would not include a Web browser. Instead, we decided to offer IE separately and on an easy-to-install basis to both computer manufacturers and users who wanted the Microsoft browser."

Instead, the European Union will now get standard versions of Windows 7.  The balloting screen will be delivered over the internet, according to Microsoft's proposal, and will only be available in Europe.  Vista and Windows XP will also get makeovers to feature the ballot.  In order to make the ballot, browsers must have sufficient marketshare -- currently this means Mozilla's Firefox, Opera, Apple's Safari, and Google's Chrome

Microsoft acknowledges that the move may cause Internet Explorer to significantly lose marketshare in Europe.  States Microsoft, "This consumer ballot screen may result in some users switching from IE to other browsers.  It is unlikely to lead to any users switching to IE, since the screen will not be presented to Windows users whose default is Firefox, Safari, Chrome, Opera or any other browser."

The company, however, was not without complaints about the EU's decision to force balloting upon it.  It somewhat bitterly states, "As you might imagine, it was not easy for Microsoft to accept the idea that we would essentially promote directly competing software from within our flagship product, Windows. Still, we believe that this approach is better for all concerned, including computer manufacturers and browser vendors—and most of all consumers—than an approach focused on removing Internet Explorer from Windows."

Microsoft hopes the EU will accept its proposal and not push for more antitrust fines/charges.  In the U.S. Windows 7 will still come with IE 8 installed as the default browser.  Microsoft has not mentioned whether the removal of the Windows 7 E edition will have any affect on its EU pricing.



Comments     Threshold


This article is over a month old, voting and posting comments is disabled

Malware
By Mitch101 on 8/3/2009 3:33:52 PM , Rating: 4
So when a system is compromised because they chose a browser other than IE do they expect Microsoft to provide support?

I am so against this because you know the video players like real, quicktime, etc are going to want to be included next.




RE: Malware
By Mitch101 on 8/3/2009 3:37:17 PM , Rating: 4
If this is acceptable then can I want an option to choose my music download services on the iPhone/iPod.


RE: Malware
By BansheeX on 8/3/2009 4:07:56 PM , Rating: 4
And whoppers at McDonalds.


RE: Malware
By TSS on 8/3/2009 5:54:56 PM , Rating: 4
Why should this be one way? If we want fair competition, smaller competitor's also have to carry the big guy's products.

Walmart products at every store!


RE: Malware
By Azsen on 8/4/09, Rating: -1
RE: Malware
By Murloc on 8/4/09, Rating: 0
RE: Malware
By eldakka on 8/5/2009 1:44:40 AM , Rating: 3
Monopolies have different rules to other, non-monopolistic businesses.

This is how it is in many countries (including the US).

The real question is whether MS is a monopoly or not. If it is, the laws, rules and regulations of many countries such as the US, Canada, EU countries, Australia etc etc (pretty much all '1st world' countries) allow, nay in many cases require, the company to be treated differently.

In both the US and the EU, MS has been found to be a monopoly. Therefore the provisions allowed for monopoly companies have kicked in. It is up to the government whether the provisions are enforced or not.


RE: Malware
By PrinceGaz on 8/3/2009 4:50:13 PM , Rating: 5
I want to be able to install Opera on my iTouch as it has apparently been completed and tested, but Apple refuse to allow it on their AppStore. Same with Flash (though if I installed Flash, I'd want an option to quickly enable or disable it as I don't want Flash ads draining the battery). And Java as well come to think of it. I know Flash and Java fall foul of the no promgrammable software or something like that (which is presumably why there are no emulators for it either), but that seems like another stupid Apple rule.

If Apple don't remove these artificial limitations, I swear I'm going to jailbreak it when I upgrade to OS 3.x as that will also save the UK£5.99 charge as well as removing Apple's stupid rules about what is allowed.


RE: Malware
By DanoruX on 8/3/2009 4:04:15 PM , Rating: 2
I wish CCCP was included with Windows...


RE: Malware
By joex444 on 8/3/09, Rating: -1
RE: Malware
By someguy123 on 8/3/2009 5:37:50 PM , Rating: 3
what? ffdshow is part of the CCCP.


RE: Malware
By Golgatha on 8/4/2009 7:29:16 AM , Rating: 2
Three letters V L C


RE: Malware
By Devilboy1313 on 8/5/2009 1:12:06 AM , Rating: 2
G O M


RE: Malware
By teldar on 8/3/2009 9:53:54 PM , Rating: 2
I've never had something not play after installing CCCP.
I don't know what you're doing, but it's most likely something wrong if you're having problems.


RE: Malware
By KorruptioN on 8/4/2009 12:49:31 PM , Rating: 1
I think the main downside to CCCP is that it hasn't been updated since last August...

But, the main premise behind it, I think, is that if the anime community uses it, it'll run just about anything.


RE: Malware
By kattanna on 8/3/2009 4:26:14 PM , Rating: 5
also MS should tally up the increased support calls it receives from people who install browsers other then IE and then call in expecting MS to help them with it.

then.. send that bill to the EU

also.. apple should be forced to do the same thing and offer up alternatives.


RE: Malware
By formulav8 on 8/3/2009 8:07:18 PM , Rating: 3
Thinking back I don't recall being forced to only use IE as my web browser? MS has allowed the customers to use another browser if they wanted (Like Opera,Firefox) iirc.

I don't know all of the details but to me it appears that the EU could be overstepping the boundary alittle? I just think its alittle nutty that they are sticking their nose so deep into someone else's product (windows/ie.ect..) who is NOT even trying to force people to use only their product (ie browser)?

And even more the EU expects microsoft to help promote someones elses product and userbase?

What is MS expected to do if customers call for support and it turns out to be a competitors browser?

I'm absolutely for open/fair competition, but could this be taking it alittle to far?

Hmm.. Somethings awfully screwy around here.?.?.

Jason


RE: Malware
By Aloonatic on 8/4/09, Rating: 0
RE: Malware
By dav115 on 8/4/2009 7:30:15 AM , Rating: 5
So according to you every business should have to supply their competitors' products alongside their own in the interests of "competition, transparency, fairness and a free market"?


RE: Malware
By Aloonatic on 8/4/09, Rating: -1
RE: Malware
By Denithor on 8/4/2009 8:18:41 AM , Rating: 5
Opportunity to choose?

You already have that. Simply download Firefox or whatever and use it instead. What's the big freaking deal?

The bigger issue is uneducated people. Those who simply use IE because it's what is installed by default in Windows.

But honestly, who cares? It doesn't hurt anyone that they use the built-in browser. In fact - if Microsoft did not include IE in Windows free - you would have to pay someone else $30-50 for a browser *after* paying Microsoft $100-200 for a copy of Windows. That is what Netscape and AOL were all about back a few years ago. You had to buy Navigator to use it (until Microsoft threw IE in with Windows for free) and AOL basically rented you a browser & dialup service for a monthly fee.


RE: Malware
By Aloonatic on 8/4/09, Rating: -1
RE: Malware
By rcc on 8/4/2009 12:09:45 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
You have that opportunity/choice. My mum and dad without anyone helping them? The vast majority of the home PC buying public? Not so much.


Everyone has the right to remain ignorant about the tools they use. That, however, doesn't not place an obligation on you, me, or any company to educate them.


RE: Malware
By JWalk on 8/6/09, Rating: 0
RE: Malware
By BushLin on 8/4/2009 10:26:57 AM , Rating: 2
I'm afraid it has hurt that people just use the built in browser. Historically, IE has not complied with web standards... this has been the bane of the web's development.

Why can't Microsoft have a browser that operates and renders a page like it's competitors? Because they want to control standards.

If MS didn't push proprietary extensions which don't operate on other browsers this ruling wouldn't be necessary.


RE: Malware
By DominionSeraph on 8/4/2009 1:16:37 PM , Rating: 2
The EU's concern has absolutely nothing to do with standards compliance.

Your anti-M$ stance has your rant leaking all over the place. You might want to get that checked out.


RE: Malware
By rcc on 8/4/2009 12:07:05 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
If everything is free, then what is the problem? Why do MS care?


MS cares because it costs them money to promote competitive products. If you really want a level playing field, have everyone advertise their own stuff. If you really feel the need to force a company to advertise competitive products, then reimburse them for it.


RE: Malware
By MrPoletski on 8/4/09, Rating: 0
By Motoman on 8/3/2009 3:21:19 PM , Rating: 1
...I do feel like the "ballot" thing is a tad unreasonable.

I think all they needed to do was to have MS offer Windows without IE preinstalled...and then PC manufacturers could choose what browser(s) they did and didn't want on the PCs they made/sold. Maybe that would include IE, maybe it wouldn't...but at least then MS was forcing every single PC in the world to have IE on it, which was the crux of the matter.

I guess I'm all for government intervention when necessary to ensure an even playing field, but I'm not convinced that being forced to promote/offer competing browsers isn't an unreasonable burden on MS.




By Motoman on 8/3/2009 3:22:23 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
.but at least then MS was forcing


...should be "wasn't" - my kingdom for an edit button.


By Rinadien on 8/3/2009 3:25:37 PM , Rating: 5
Of course it was unreasonable, anyone with half a brain can download and install a custom browser if they wish to... Unless of course you're a member of the EU council, in which case, the half a brain is a gross exageration...


By Fritzr on 8/4/2009 6:14:52 AM , Rating: 5
Step 1: Discover that IE is not the only browser in the universe
Step 2: Decide that replacing the built in browser that your OS provider recommends is a good idea
Step 3: Find a safe download for this new browser
Step 4: Search the net for tech sites explaining how to setup the new browser correctly.

The people reading this will usually find the above a joke, believing that all of the above is trivial.

However the user who bought a computer at Wal-Mart and whose tech knowledge extends to the ability to punch the power button and has taken an hour or two to discover that pressing a button on the mouse while the arrow on the TV screen is hovering over a tiny picture will cause a program to run...

Both are extremes, but the average Windows computer buyer will NOT be reading the enthusiast magazines or checking out the tech websites. They will normally learn that there are other browsers when they click on an ad or a geeky friend asks "Why aren't you using browser X?...I can't believe you haven't disabled IE yet!"

The ballot takes care of letting users know that other browsers exist. The More Info link gives users enough info to start asking intelligent questions (which they probably won't do :P) and the Install link takes them straight to a SAFE download. After all getting FireFox with all it's security plugins, packaged with a botnet accessory is not what a user really wants :D

Would be nice if the ballot were available worldwide. Though I would hope it would be supported by the major portal sites like Yahoo!, Google and MSN though MSN could be forgiven for making the link hard to find :P This would allow users to choose the browser that fits their needs without forcing Microsoft to undercut their attempt to Embrace, Extend & Engulf as much of the internet standards as they can grab


By Aloonatic on 8/4/2009 6:35:56 AM , Rating: 5
No no no, You've got it all wrong. Everything is super simple, unless you only have half a brain.

I'm sure the above poster, whom you replyed to, finds everything easy. Need to service your car? Anyone with half a brain can do that. Fix the plumbing in your home? Anyone with half a brain can do that. Sort out the wiring in your house? Anyone with half a brain can do that. etc etc etc...

Ever been ripped off by a car mechanic? Is that OK because you don't know everything about cars, or even the just the basics? No, it's not OK and the authorities, be it local trading standards up to federal (which is what the EU is, whether it admits it or not) bodies like the EC will look out for you and do what they can to protect you, and the market in general for everyone. It is in everyone's best interests that someone is looking out for you so that your understandable ignorance (it's unreasonable to expect everyone to know everything about everything) of certain things is not exploited.

That is what happened here, that many of you are missing. MS destroyed all internet browser competition early doors and then exploited that position to make themselves seem like the only way to access the internet. MS knew that that is what a lot of people would be buying PCs to do. When people don't know much about something they tend to stick with brands, so when they see MS as the brand providing both their OS and the way to access the internet, why bother looking for anything else? Their browser must be the best? Right? All their products must be. So competition is stifled. Ideas fall by the wayside and it took both the unlikely and massive efforts (in equal measure) of the Mozilla Foundation and Fire Fox to drag the internet browser in to the 21st century.

What is so hard to understand about the simple concept of MS providing an OS that is just an OS anyway? With MS then competing on a level playing field with their other "free" products like IE and Media Player? Surly anyone with "half a brain" can see that it would be better for us all if that was to happen. Oh wait...


By Denithor on 8/4/2009 8:27:58 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
It is in everyone's best interests that someone is looking out for you so that your understandable ignorance (it's unreasonable to expect everyone to know everything about everything) of certain things is not exploited.


Ok, Comrade, can you hold my hand while I take a crap and wipe my ass when I'm through? I am not smart enough to take care of myself without a keeper so please help me deal with every single facet of my life.

The EU is already heavily socialist and unfortunately the US seems bent on going that direction too. In a hurry these days.


By Aloonatic on 8/4/2009 9:26:02 AM , Rating: 2
What? Is this a serious comment? Really?

By the way, how is insisting on fair competition socialists?

If they were saying that you had to all use one government controlled browser or something, paid for by the tax payer, you may have a point. That what the EU wants is the complete opposite of that, yet that is where you have found yourself and what genuinely seem to believe is mystifying beyond belief, even for a DT post.

Kudos


By Rinadien on 8/4/2009 9:33:21 AM , Rating: 2
You're obviously a member of the EU council otherwise you wouldn't spend all that time spewing nonsense... And if you're going to make ridiculous analogies, then by all means, why not compare a software installation that is EXTREMELY user friendly, Firefox for example, with, I don't know, creating the perfect fuel formula for the next generation space shuttles?

If you're going to compare a browser installation process with anything car related, it would be more along the lines of replacing your windshield wipers with a set of aftermarket ones that perform better, not the same thing as replacing an engine block...

And if MS destroyed the browser competition, then how is it possible that Firefox is gaining ground at such a fast rate? How is it possible that there are over one BILLION Firefox downloads since 2004? How was it possible for all those people to install Firefox several times, without EC assistance? And how in the world is it possible for Apple to get away with selling OSX in the EU without EC barking at their door? Does Apple provide a browser ballot?

Get off your soapbox and install Firefox, or wait for your IT guy to come and rip you off while installing it for you...

In more recent news, Mercedes was fine 15 billion Euros’ last night because they have the Mercedes Benz emblem on their cars, and they refused to allow the consumer to choose between the MB, BMW and AUDI emblems on their cars...

And now, Ollie Williams with the weather.

PS. it's spelled surely.


By Aloonatic on 8/4/2009 10:03:44 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
And if you're going to make ridiculous analogies, then by all means, why not compare a software installation that is EXTREMELY user friendly, Firefox for example, with, I don't know, creating the perfect fuel formula for the next generation space shuttles?
I was simply pointing out that some people have neither the knowledge, nor the inclination to learn everything, no matter how simple or hard you may find it. As such, bodies are set up to protect us all from exploitation in virtually every market. I didn't think I was being super cryptic.
quote:
And if MS destroyed the browser competition, then how is it possible that Firefox is gaining ground at such a fast rate? How is it possible that there are over one BILLION Firefox downloads since 2004? How was it possible for all those people to install Firefox several times, without EC assistance?
MS destroyed browser competition years ago, back in the late 90s/turn of the Willenium. It's only very recently that Fire Fox has (somewhat fortunately) gained a foot hold, in part due to actions taken by bodies like the EU.
quote:
And how in the world is it possible for Apple to get away with selling OSX in the EU without EC barking at their door? Does Apple provide a browser ballot?
What? When did I mention Apple? As it happens, maybe Apple should be investigated. However, in case you have missed the many articles where the market share of the Apple and MS camps are compared.... MS has a much larger user base, especially in the home market, when compared to Apple. So if you had the resources to go after 1 company out of the 2, which would you go for?
quote:
Get off your soapbox and install Firefox, or wait for your IT guy to come and rip you off while installing it for you...
Is that supposed to be an ironic joke? Or are you the over paid "IT guy"? Are you hurting because you don't want other people to find these things for themselves? Now you wont look like some tech genius with lots of insider knowledge because you know about these browsers that work much better than IE when you go to friend's houses and install them? Is that it? Is that where the hurt is coming from?
quote:
In more recent news, Mercedes was fine 15 billion Euros’ last night because they have the Mercedes Benz emblem on their cars, and they refused to allow the consumer to choose between the MB, BMW and AUDI emblems on their cars...
No pointless analogies there then? Although I am guessing that you were trying to be funny? BTW, where is this place where people are given Mercedes cars? That's pretty sweet. What the hell have cars got to do with this? People keep on bringing them up, but really, can someone explain to me what I am missing? It's like comparing apple to oranges, or operating systems to car manufacturing.
quote:
And now, Ollie Williams with the weather.
It's raining here.
quote:
PS. it's spelled surely.
Oh wow, you have a spell check. Hence your ill formed, blinkered opinions must be better than anyone else's.


By Rinadien on 8/4/2009 10:15:05 AM , Rating: 2
Microsoft shouldn't have to pay because you're lazy. Now if you'll excuse me, I have better things to do than sit here and explain each and every comment that went far far over your head.


By BansheeX on 8/4/2009 10:40:12 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
I was simply pointing out that some people have neither the knowledge, nor the inclination to learn everything, no matter how simple or hard you may find it. As such, bodies are set up to protect us all from exploitation in virtually every market. I didn't think I was being super cryptic.


If all you're doing is casually browsing the weather and news 30 minutes a day, IE is a great browser for that. If you're on the internet 5 hours a day or visiting lots of sketchy sites, you've probably switched to firefox because it was safer and had tabs. Most people fall into the former camp, and as such, they have not been annoyed into choosing your preference.

MS isn't suppressing anyone by being first, being free, and offering their own decent solutions out of the box. They got their marketshare fair and square and have historically improved the browser when competition has spurred them to. Navigator died because it became inferior to IE, period. MS doesn't have the resources to offer tech support for competing products.

And what are the inclusion rules? Can a browser I make be included on the ballot or is there some popularity prerequisite? Do I have to contribute to some EU political campaigns? Will MS be required to list browsers that are even WORSE than IE? How will these supposed idiot users know which one is best for them, or do you expect some imbecile politician to accurately recommend what's best for them even though (a) they don't even know the person and (b) they do not continuously research the field of choices? The EU's only concept of what the "best" are is what people in the market have already chosen without them.

quote:
MS destroyed browser competition years ago, back in the late 90s/turn of the Willenium. It's only very recently that Fire Fox has (somewhat fortunately) gained a foot hold, in part due to actions taken by bodies like the EU.


Now you're just talking out of your butt. The EU had absolutely NOTHING to do with the Firefox's meteoric rise in marketshare. Nothing. Go back to Cuba, Castro.


By Aloonatic on 8/4/2009 11:16:36 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
MS isn't suppressing anyone by being first, being free, and offering their own decent solutions out of the box

They are not and may not have been suppressing you, because you know better. What may surprise you is that computers are a magic box in the corner of the room to a lot of people. Something that they knew virtually nothing about. By giving their browser away, MS did suppress competition. I don't know what you do for a living, or the company you work for but if another firm with a ridiculously dominant market share started giving away products that competed (even poorly) with yours, but the customer had to do nothing to receive it and it was free, would you feel that that was fair? Would you feel like your company and its opportunity to compete was being suppressed unfairly?

Part of the rise of the popularity of Fire Fox (and others) is that a lot of people have only recently become far more comfortable with using their PCs, and to their credit (since XP) MS has made amazingly easy to use Operating Systems.

This action by the EU is a legacy of past conflicts, which as per usual have rumbled on, the way that legal disputes always seem to, so that it now appears out of it's time and pointless however, which makes it seem somewhat odd.

quote:
Now you're just talking out of your butt. The EU had absolutely NOTHING to do with the Firefox's meteoric rise in marketshare. Nothing.

I said bodies like the EU in the context of organisations looking out for consumers and citizens. It's not just the EU who have wrapped MS over the knuckles for it's behaviour, or how it has abused the inclusion of IE in its operating systems.

quote:
And what are the inclusion rules? Can a browser I make be included on the ballot or is there some popularity prerequisite? Do I have to contribute to some EU political campaigns? Will MS be required to list browsers that are even WORSE than IE? How will these supposed idiot users know which one is best for them, or do you expect some imbecile politician to accurately recommend what's best for them even though (a) they don't even know the person and (b) they do not continuously research the field of choices? The EU's only concept of what the "best" are is what people in the market have already chosen without them.
That is the price we pay for being in a free market capitalists society. A short list of popular browsers as seen above does not seem unreasonable. I think that you know that, you are just being childish to suggest otherwise I fear. What would be wrong with their being a updated lists of browsers anyway? Someone would have to make a decision somewhere, sure, but we are talking about a product that is used by millions of people. It's not like you are going to write a browser in your spare time all by yourself that is full of bugs and wholes, then release it, which would have to be included (along with millions of others), leading to chaos.

quote:
Go back to Cuba, Castro.
Again, can someone point out how a company simply being made to compete on a level playing field in a free market is communist? Seriously, I just don't get that?


By karlostomy on 8/4/2009 12:45:04 PM , Rating: 3
Wow, looks like aloonatic has jumped off the deep end with the cool-aid!
Not a single thing he has said has made any rational sense.

Fact is, every consumer in the world already has the CHOICE to use any browser they wish without the need for the EU to step in and forcing MS to promote their competition.

It certainly should not be MS's responsibility to bring that choice to anyone's attention, especially if they incur costs and lose market share in doing so.

That responsibility for bringing competing products to the attention of consumers lies with the company that makes the competing browser, alone.

The proposed EU mandate has very little to do with 'competing on a level playing field', but more to do with socialism.

end of.


By dragonbif on 8/3/2009 3:33:21 PM , Rating: 2
Other browsers should have to pay MS for putting their stuff up for install. Say $.15 per install just like anyone else gets if they can get you to keep the little check box when installing some other 3rd party install.
MS has to do all that work to get it ready and they do not get much out of it.


By A554SS1N on 8/3/2009 4:23:10 PM , Rating: 2
You do realise the other browsers are free right? And some of those companies won't exactly have huge finances to pay for something like that?


By Motley on 8/3/2009 10:21:07 PM , Rating: 2
Just bill the EU.


By mars777 on 8/4/2009 12:07:29 AM , Rating: 2
I don't understand why should it be unreasonable...

Maybe it is anticapitalistic but it is perfectly reasonable.

The EU made a better Windows than Microsoft did.

Now i don't have to go to download my browser and install afterwards.

For end users this is:

- 1 click more (IE users)
- or 50 clicks less (Other browser users)

In the majority of cases it will be a lot easier to setup windows than it was before...


By AnnihilatorX on 8/4/2009 3:34:32 AM , Rating: 2
I agree. I don't understand what the negativity is all about. Browsers are free products after all.

It's good for the consumers anyway, more (in a user-friendly way) options the merrier.


By Denithor on 8/4/2009 8:33:26 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Browsers are free products after all.


You do, I hope, realize that if Microsoft hadn't included IE in Windows that you would have to buy a browser separately after paying them for your copy of Windows?

That was the whole business model of Netscape - design and sell copies of their browser, Navigator. AOL basically rented you their browser along with your dialup service.


By Aloonatic on 8/4/2009 11:21:20 AM , Rating: 2
So MS should give away all possible forms of software with their OSs to make it so that we never have to buy anything every again, just Windows everything you could ever want edition?

They would never drag their feet, give you and inferior product. Competition is not needed in the Windows compatible software market. Just every other market on the earth though?


By DominionSeraph on 8/5/2009 12:57:50 AM , Rating: 2
Internet Explorer has been bundled since '95. Firefox 1.0 came out in late '04. So how exactly has bundling IE closed the door on the development of free browsers?

And I do like stuff to come bundled with my OS. The GUI was a nice add after MS-DOS 6.22, freeing me up from the third-party GUI I used since DOS 2.0. The bundled calculator comes in handy. Notepad is a nice improvement over EDIT.COM (which MS was nice enough to bundle with MS-DOS), and Wordpad is 1/8 the price of Word or WordPerfect. The DIR command obviated the need for a third-party textual directory browser, as Windows Explorer does for graphical. Sol.exe is probably the #1 used app on the planet, and it comes free. Windows Media Player means I don't have to install Winamp on each new build (the freeware version of which is now crippled). Since XP, Winzip is no longer a must since Windows can open zip files. No need for CPUIdle since XP+ supports HLT. Vista has native burning. (no ISO though)
Disk defragmenting? Not a problem; unless you were unfortunate enough to want to defrag NT.
Format? Never had to pay for a third-party app for that.
With SMARTDRV.EXE, we got some sweet file caching.
Vista can modify partitions on a formatted disk.
Firewall since XP.
SET BLASTER=A220 I5 D1 H5? No, I think I'll Plug and Play.
Clipboard is godly.

WTF kind of stupid fanboy-ism causes people to have issues with a browser being included with an OS? What's gonna happen when Microsoft Security Essentials goes live? Are we going to have AVG/Kaspersky nutjobs getting their panties in a twist over nothing?


By DominionSeraph on 8/5/2009 1:15:43 AM , Rating: 2
Aargh! The preview renders the infinity symbol just fine, but it turns to an eight when you post? (That was supposed to be 1/infinity not 1/8)

8 ∞


By rcc on 8/4/2009 12:23:57 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
In the majority of cases it will be a lot easier to setup windows than it was before...


Don't be silly. If IE has a majority market share, then obviously it just became more complicated in the "majority of cases".


Next week's headline
By LRonaldHubbs on 8/3/2009 3:50:04 PM , Rating: 5
"EU deems Microsoft's browser ballot anticompetetive due to IE being listed first."




RE: Next week's headline
By Bender 123 on 8/3/2009 5:38:13 PM , Rating: 5
Safari comes in second as Chrome and Firefox users ask for hand recount of hanging chads/check boxes. Quote random European "the boxes were close and I thought that I was voting for Chrome...The next thing I know I have Apple constantly nagging me to update software I don't even own."


RE: Next week's headline
By ebakke on 8/3/2009 5:46:11 PM , Rating: 4
Microsoft's Ballmer was quoted as saying, "Fuck it, we're out of that shithole!" as he threw the closest chair into a projector screen that was displaying an image of Europe.


RE: Next week's headline
By someguy123 on 8/3/2009 5:50:44 PM , Rating: 4
The Europeon Union announced today that they found Microsoft's browser ballot to be anti-competitive, listing Microsoft's very own Internet Explorer as the first choice. The EU decided that, in order to better represent all competing browsers, the browsers would be listed from lowest market share to highest.

When asked for comment, Opera's CEO replied, "Excellent."


Ballot delivered over the Internet?
By joex444 on 8/3/2009 4:17:24 PM , Rating: 2
So... how does one deliver this ballot screen without having IE installed off-the-bat?

Is that how this works... Windows 7 comes with IE in Europe, but the home page is this ballot page?

I thought the whole point was for IE not to be installed without users explicity choosing such an option.

As such, the ballot screen should be an .EXE that loads on first boot. Install files for IE8, FF3, Chrome, Safari, Opera are hidden somewhere on the disc which must be used to install a browser. (What? You don't want the install files on the hard drive do you... talk about bloatware.)

I'm still all for including no browser whatsoever. The EU obviously thinks it knows how to make a better OS than MS, and MS got in trouble for bundling IE automatically. Not for not giving users a choice of which browser to install. With that in mind, I propose stripping IE from Win 7 in Europe. Include a series of .TXT files on the Desktop, with directions on how to use the command line FTP program to obtain IE, FF, Safari, Opera, and Chrome. This is, in my mind, what the EU envisioned when it began the anti-trust case.




RE: Ballot delivered over the Internet?
By theapparition on 8/3/2009 5:28:09 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
So... how does one deliver this ballot screen without having IE installed off-the-bat?

You do know its quite easy to do this without an actual browser installed. It's not reading HTTP, just executing a program that has links towards the browser of your choice.

Similar to how programs launch thier own windows to check for updates.


RE: Ballot delivered over the Internet?
By Motley on 8/3/2009 10:25:18 PM , Rating: 2
Yes, because IE which takes up 675K on your hard drive is such a waste, let's write a completely different set of (non-standard) protocols to download the browser and use a (non-standard) mark up to display the ballot screen and stick that on the hard disk. That's so much better.


By mars777 on 8/4/2009 12:12:23 AM , Rating: 2
No unstandard protocols are needed. The onyl thing you need is the .Net framework that is already shipped with Windows.

And a 20kb ballot screen written in .Net which uses a standard HTTP post method to download the binary.


By dark matter on 8/4/2009 6:03:34 AM , Rating: 2
Oh hum.

Ever heard of FTP?


By DominionSeraph on 8/5/2009 1:48:49 AM , Rating: 2
"with directions on how to use the command line FTP program"

Ah, but if it was common knowledge that one was bundled with Windows, somebody would write their own client just to sue Microsoft for being monopolistic.
Personally, I'm gonna sue them for their PCI standard ISA bridge driver. I mean, I just have no motivation to make one as they include isapnp.sys at install. That's gotta be worth a few million at least.


xp and windows update
By kevinkreiser on 8/4/2009 10:39:47 AM , Rating: 2
isn't windows update for xp done in browser. i wonder if they works properly in browsers other than ie... could be a tricky situation.




RE: xp and windows update
By kevinkreiser on 8/4/2009 11:07:54 AM , Rating: 2
they=it. edit button!?


RE: xp and windows update
By HotFoot on 8/6/2009 5:01:29 AM , Rating: 2
As far as I know, yes, you have to use IE to run Windows update features. I've also found that setting up a Vodafone application (using it in Germany) requires using IE and won't work if you try to set it up using Firefox.

I could care less what the EU decides is fair play in their back yard. I think what a lot of folks are forgetting is that it IS their back yard, and whatever rules they want are fair play there. They don't have to do it like people in the USA or Canada do it. You want in my house? Then follow my rules. Don't like it? Then go home. Why do you care so much? I think the only legitimate complaint about this issue should start from the voters within the EU.

What I would like to see is better adoption of internet standards, so I wouldn't have to revert back to IE to use certain websites (often used by schools and governments) or other 3rd party applications. Having to boot back into Windows just to use IE because some government website uses an IE-only function annoys me. I don't care who's fault it is.


har har har
By MrPoletski on 8/4/2009 9:28:40 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
Microsoft acknowledges that the move may cause Internet Explorer to significantly lose marketshare in Europe.


Funny what happens when you present people with a CHOICE.




RE: har har har
By kaoken on 8/4/2009 2:59:38 PM , Rating: 2
Have you seen voting results? Usually they all become equal because people don't know enough about each candidate.


RE: har har har
By MrPoletski on 8/5/2009 3:41:04 AM , Rating: 2
well we'll have to see when win7 is shipping.


Finally rid of IE or not?
By Pjotr on 8/3/2009 8:26:42 PM , Rating: 2
Does this mean that software that has crappy programming and still wants to open HTML links in IE (instead of the default browser I have chosen in the OS) will still open in IE, or is IE finally wiped from my Windows installation?




RE: Finally rid of IE or not?
By mars777 on 8/4/2009 12:16:57 AM , Rating: 2
Unfortunately malware will probably still be able to launch through Explorer. It is not removed, it is probably just hidden from the user.


European pre-orders?
By MegaHustler on 8/3/2009 8:45:58 PM , Rating: 2
Anybody know what will happen to the european pre-orders of Windows 7E?

I believe the W7E pre-orders were supposed to be full retail versions (minus IE of course), as opposed to USA pre-orders, which I believe are upgrade versions. (please correct me if this is wrong)

Will europeans who pre-ordered W7E be stuck with the upgrade versions? If so, I think I'll cancel my pre-order...




RE: European pre-orders?
By ViRGE on 8/3/2009 10:58:38 PM , Rating: 2
You'll get a full retail version of Win7. That hasn't changed. It will just be Win7 instead of Win7E.


I want...
By Kyanzes on 8/4/2009 7:17:23 AM , Rating: 2
I *want* Notepad++ to be offered on first boot! MS Notepad's oppression of the market should be dealt with!




RE: I want...
By Denithor on 8/4/2009 8:39:47 AM , Rating: 2
That's next week's EU lawsuit against Microsoft.

The cash cow is not quite dead yet...


Accidentally downvoted :P
By Communism on 8/3/2009 4:24:08 PM , Rating: 2
Blah




Ironic?
By mkruer on 8/3/2009 10:32:02 PM , Rating: 2
Does anyone find it a bit ironic that the ballot screen use internet explorer?

You must use IE, to choose not to use IE?

TWF?




Wow
By icanhascpu on 8/3/09, Rating: 0
RE: Wow
By gl0g on 8/4/09, Rating: 0
Microsoft should charge for ie8
By bru on 8/4/09, Rating: 0
It will never happen but...
By corrinthians on 8/4/09, Rating: 0
"I mean, if you wanna break down someone's door, why don't you start with AT&T, for God sakes? They make your amazing phone unusable as a phone!" -- Jon Stewart on Apple and the iPhone














botimage
Copyright 2014 DailyTech LLC. - RSS Feed | Advertise | About Us | Ethics | FAQ | Terms, Conditions & Privacy Information | Kristopher Kubicki