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Hardware Microsoft Introduces SideWinder Mouse for Gamers
Wolfgang Hansson (Blog) - August 22, 2007 6:00 PM

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50 comment(s) - last by Polynikes.. on Aug 28 at 9:41 PM

Microsoft SideWinder Mouse Top (Source: Microsoft)

Microsoft SideWinder Mouse Side (Source: Microsoft)

Microsoft revives the SideWinder name with a new gaming mouse built in house by Microsoft

Several years ago Microsoft had a line of several gaming peripherals that all were sold under the SideWinder name. From gamepads to joysticks the gear was typically pretty good and worked well for most gamers -- until Microsoft cut the entire line.

Microsoft has pulled the derelict SideWinder name from the shadows and shined it up for a new gaming peripheral called the SideWinder Mouse. This is the first Microsoft gaming peripheral to be built from the ground up at Microsoft.

Gamers familiar with the Microsoft Habu gaming mouse and the Microsoft Reclusa keyboard will know that those two products are little more than re-branded Razer gear. This new mouse has some interesting features, one of the most notable being a Quick Turn macro button that turns your character 180 degrees at the touch of a button. A rapid about face has saved more than one geek in a hectic death match.

Microsoft has also integrated the first ever LCD screen into a production mouse. The screen doesn’t show you game details like the Logitech G15 LCD does, but is used to show the sensitivity the mouse is running at and allows you to see the macros bound to mouse buttons.

Internally the SideWinder Mouse is your standard 2000 dpi gaming mouse fare. This means it will give up some of its luster to the Logitech G9’s 3200 dpi sensitivity for gamers looking for raw speed. Microsoft did give the mouse on-the-fly adjustable sensitivity control via three buttons behind the scroll wheel. All five of the mouse buttons are customizable via included software.

Taking a page out of Logitech’s book, the SideWinder Mouse has weights that allow you to vary the feel of the mouse by adding up to 30g of weight. Microsoft also ships the mouse with three sets of feet, made from different materials, to allow you to further customize the feel to your mousing surface and preferences.

Any gamer who plays for a long period of time runs into issues with too much cable lying on the desk at some point. Microsoft addressed this problem with a built-in cable management system. The system is basically a place to coil up the excess USB cable and stuff it inside the mouse. The compartment can also double as a place to store the extra mouse feet and weights. The Microsoft SideWinder Mouse will be available in October for $79.95.

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Gaming mice

By Polynikes on 8/22/2007 7:44:04 PM , Rating: 3

I don't understand this obsession with gaming mice. I've never once had a need for a 180 degree button. Most games don't have an option for that anyways. I seriously doubt all that extra stuff has any noticeable impact on performance.

RE: Gaming mice

By afkrotch on 8/22/2007 8:20:47 PM , Rating: 3

You don't sound to be a good gamer. Having a button to quickly turn around could turn the tide in a very small decisive battle. Those precious seconds could mean the difference between victory and defeat.

Me, I'd much rather have a higher dpi. I think my mouse only has around 800 dpi. It's significantly slower than many other gaming mice, that's why I looked into the Habu.

Also the 180 degree turn button doesn't need to be an option in the game. It's an option in the mouse and it's software. Pressing the button simply equates to the mouse telling itself it just did a 180 degree turn, without the user actually doing the movement. The game doesn't care what went on, it's simply told that you did a 180 degree turn.

Also many of the extra buttons, weight, extra glide, etc are to help users setup their mouse the way they want. For some uers it'll help their performance in a game. For others, it may not do anything at all.

Being able to change your dpi settings is very nice. When you are working in with like Photoshop, you lower the dpi to make slow accurate movements. For games, you turn it up so you can make fast movements, without making exaggerated mouse movements.

Extra buttons can be extremely useful for certain games. Like WoW, Tiberium Wars, or GRAW. Instead of lifting your hand off the WASD to reach for like, F10, you can just click a button. I remember games like R6:3, where you were having to lift your hand off WASD to get to M. Your MMORPGs really have no need for a 180 degree button, but being able to easily and quickly reach 10 different buttons is very helpful. Games like Counterstrike have no need for tons of different buttons, but being able to turn 180 with a click of a button is also very helpful.

That's why there are gaming keyboards and mice. To make gaming a little more easy. Course that's one of the differences between a casual gamer and hardcore gamer. Hardcore gamers take things a bit more seriously. If you're not 1st, your last.

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RE: Gaming mice

By Axbattler on 8/22/2007 11:54:49 PM , Rating: 2

quote:
You don't sound to be a good gamer.

Equipment can provide a crutch. But I don't think that is what make a good/hardcore versus a less skilled/casual gamer.

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RE: Gaming mice

By afkrotch on 8/23/2007 12:49:20 AM , Rating: 2

But a good/hardcore gamer will tend to get good hardware (within their budgets of course) to enhance their gaming. Looking at the fact that he can't understand why ppl care about a gaming mouse, it easily can be seen that he's either a less skilled or casual gamer.

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RE: Gaming mice

By rdeegvainl on 8/23/2007 2:32:19 AM , Rating: 2

Either that or inherently awesome and never noticed a difference because he frags them all with the mouse a crappy mouse on a commodore 64!

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RE: Gaming mice

By Axbattler on 8/23/2007 7:24:36 AM , Rating: 3

Extremes aside, that is where I was getting at. People could kick ass before being able to bind a 180 turn to the push of a key, so it wouldn't surprise me if some feel that some of those benefits and gimmicky and do not translates to actual into real world gains for them.

A world class player without a mouse would probably struggle even against an amateur with the best gear at CS. But I suspect that past a thresholds of equipment, the benefits become so negligible that they would not make or break a game between two top players (other externalities would count more).

Of course, I do like the idea of the benefits gaming mice are supposed to bring (many well positioned is a definite plus for me).. but I can accept skepticism to some features.

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RE: Gaming mice

By Aikouka on 8/23/2007 8:28:06 AM , Rating: 2

Actually, in WoW, there are a number of classes that benefit highly from being able to efficiently turn and use an instant spell/attack while in mid air. Whether or not that 180 degree turn (which would have to be used twice) would work well for this is really up in the air.

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RE: Gaming mice

By 1078feba on 8/23/2007 10:14:33 AM , Rating: 2

I play CoD 2 primarily, and, from my tiny little corner of the world, I will lay it on the line and say that a button that allows an instant 180, either in the air midjump, standing, kneeling or prone, would be perilously close to a hack. It's like altering your multiplayer config file to allow a single button to both bring the scope up to your eye with a sniper rifle and hold your breath, all in one smooth motion. It would, after you get really used to using it, give you a serious, serious advantage. Your taking rounds from your rear, hit 180 and prone and fire all at the same time and you have got a 50-50 shot (a baseless SWAG, I know, but a fair one I believe) at walking away from that firefight, whereas, prior to a 180 button, you were toast 80+% of the time.

Now, where can I buy one...heh.

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RE: Gaming mice

By Polynikes on 8/28/2007 9:41:23 PM , Rating: 2

Yeah, back in the old days we had to manually write scripts for stuff like that. (Three-round bursts, radio commands, etc.) These mice take all the fun out of improving your chances in multiplayer games by implementing "features" that weren't there before.

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RE: Gaming mice

By Creig on 8/23/2007 12:33:44 PM , Rating: 2

I would have to place having a 180 degree button on your mouse in the same category as running a wallhack or aimbot. In other words, a cheat.

How realistic would it look if you were playing CS:S and the guy you were sneaking up on instantaneously spun exactly 180 degrees? You would suddenly find yourself facing his gun instead of his back. That sort of ability was obviously not the intent of the game designers and would detract from the overall realism of the game.

This "feature" is nothing more than a hardware gaming cheat.

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RE: Gaming mice

By afkrotch on 8/23/2007 7:44:00 PM , Rating: 2

Umm...do you actually play CS:S with a high dpi mouse? I can currently turn around 180 in CS:S on my Microsoft Laser Mouse 6000 instantaneously and my mouse only sits at 800 dpi. Which is fairly low for a gaming mouse.

A flick of my mouse (about 1/2 inch movement to either right or left) is enough to turn me 180. Whether it be a button or me actually making the movement, it's really no different. Course depending on person, I'd rather stick with doing it with my mouse, as I can control specific turns.

I can turn 160 degrees, 210 degrees, 145 degrees, etc. My enemy isn't always going to be 180 degrees behind me.

I really don't see how any person can consider this a cheat. It brings an advantage to those who suck at these games, but for the good players, it'd be a hinderance.

Well, take it as you see it, I guess.

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RE: Gaming mice

By Creig on 8/24/2007 8:09:19 AM , Rating: 2

No, I don't use an ultra-high DPI mouse (800dpi), but I also can turn around fairly quickly. I'm just saying that reducing this action to simply pressing a button and making it INSTANTANEOUS is not an action the game developers could have forseen and I doubt they would have approved. If someone wants to check behind themselves, let them do it with a flick of their wrist. Having a button do it is still going to be quicker than doing it manually and will allow that person an additional split second advantage to line up a shot compared to the person using a normal mouse.

In addition, their crosshair will be at the exact same level as when they were facing forward, which is another advantage. Sometimes when spinning around, your crosshair will end up a little higher or lower which can spell the difference between a head shot and a missed shot.

Besides, seeing someone (teammate or enemy) instantly go from facing forward to facing backward to facing forward again isn't at all realistic and will detract from the game's overall realism.

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RE: Gaming mice

By Polynikes on 8/28/2007 9:35:27 PM , Rating: 2

Dude, I was fragging people with my old two-button no-scroll-wheel mouse and vanilla keyboard in Action Quake 2 like it was nobody's business. Back then, simple skill was used to turn 180 degrees, though the 3D sound wasn't quite what it is now so normally your only indication someone was behind you was the spray of blood you saw when you died, because that game was 10 times faster than any multiplayer FPS out now. You didn't get a second chance once someone had their sights on you in those days.

quote:
Also the 180 degree turn button doesn't need to be an option in the game. It's an option in the mouse and it's software. Pressing the button simply equates to the mouse telling itself it just did a 180 degree turn, without the user actually doing the movement. The game doesn't care what went on, it's simply told that you did a 180 degree turn.

That, IMHO, sounds dangerously close to cheating. That's not a level playing field at all. Next thing you know, they'll have a button specifically for circle strafing, so all the lame newb gamers don't have to learn how to do it manually.

Also, since gaming is a hobby for me, I don't need to "be hardcore" by buying pointless hardware. I'm perfectly confident that any good gamer can hang with the "hardcore" gamers who spend tons of money on hardware using just a plain keyboard and two button mouse with a scroll wheel. You put way too much emphasis on hardware.

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RE: Gaming mice

By Emryse on 8/22/2007 8:27:11 PM , Rating: 1

quote:
I've never once had a need for a 180 degree button. Most games don't have an option for that anyways.

I would submit that perhaps the "180 degree button" imitates the same signal as would be relayed should one manually rotate their view very rapidly in the desired fashion.

At any rate, I don't think this mouse ranks with the best, but then again it doesn't appear to have been MS's intention for this product to do so... this is not to say it's a bad product - perhaps slightly better than average.

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RE: Gaming mice

By ziggo on 8/22/2007 9:12:15 PM , Rating: 2

I find it intresting that they included a 180 turn button scripting capability in the first place. In the FPS that I play (RTCW:ET) they specifically disabled the quake command that let you script movements such as this.

This isn't the first time this has happened either. There used to be limits on how far you could adjust the Y sensitivity relative to the X so that you couldn't use a bind to virtually "lock" the cursor at headheight for flat combat situations. After logitech released some drivers that came around the same time as the MX500, it allowed these settings to be changed on the fly using a registry hack. The restrictions had to be removed so that hardware selection wouldnt become so pivotal to being able to play at a high level.

I guess the scripted movements are going to have to be re-enabled now.

I still have and use my old sidewinder force feedback joystick for BF2, though one of the buttons is starting to fail. 9 Years of use isnt bad though I suppose.

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RE: Gaming mice

By rdeegvainl on 8/23/2007 2:36:47 AM , Rating: 2

Most interesting and gameplay funwise would be to get around that kind of headshot hack, would be to make characters of differing size in your game, that would make for some fun game play, larger characters that are faster runners due to long legs and smaller characters that are slower but smaller targets.

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RE: Gaming mice

By Polynikes on 8/28/2007 9:38:22 PM , Rating: 2

Yeah, they could have buttons for all sorts of things, so all the "hardcore" gamers get their money out of their over-priced hardware! Let's see, there'd be a circle-strafe button, a bunny-hop button, a shoot as soon as your enemy breaks cover button... The possibilities would be endless!

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RE: Gaming mice

By bhieb on 8/23/2007 11:52:07 AM , Rating: 2

According to this hands-on review, it is just a macro that you record once and replays each time. It does not really have anything to do with signaling, it just replays a mouse movement. And according to them it seems to be just fluff as it does not work as quickly as actually turning around. Of course these were not retail drivers so a lot can change.

http://hardware.gotfrag.com/portal/story/39380/

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WTF!

By afkrotch on 8/22/2007 6:35:42 PM , Rating: 2

What is with that mouse? I've always like Microsoft mice. I've gone from the standard Optical mouse and am currently on the Microsoft Laser Mouse 6000. It's a pretty regular mouse that is easy to use with both hands. It's not overly complicated with like 50 buttons on the thing.

I've always wanted a higher DPI, which you could have gotten from the Laser Habu, but the design isn't like normal Microsoft mice. It takes it's look and feel from the Razor mice, which I don't really like, so I never bothered to get it.

This mouse just seems to take the cake. Sure some ppl will surely love this mouse. Tons of buttons, outrageous features, and so on. I'm just not one of them.

RE: WTF!

By hr824 on 8/22/07, Rating: 0

RE: WTF!

By tuteja1986 on 8/22/2007 7:06:22 PM , Rating: 2

I will probably end up buying it :( my mouse addiction has to stop :! this year alone i spent $200 on mouse :(

Mouse addiction started with the release of Logitech Dual LED mouse ;( and then it went out of control when i started to buy every new logitech , razor and microsoft gaming mouse.

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RE: WTF!

By vijay333 on 8/22/2007 7:10:20 PM , Rating: 5

have you considered that maybe you're just not very good at gaming?

:)

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RE: WTF!

By tuteja1986 on 8/22/2007 10:27:54 PM , Rating: 5

Never !!!

I blame the Hardware :! i blame gpu for the minor frame rate drop :! i blame the ram for not being faster ! I blame my 24Mbits net connection for lag ! I blame the mouse for being to slow to respond ! i blame the Quad core cpu for being to slow at processing data ! I blame the monitor for its MS lag ! I blame the G15 keyboard for not being perfect! I blame hard drive for being to slow to read and write ! I blame the sound card for taking up to much processing power :!

I blame the designer , developer and game play tweaker for things that should haven't happened in games like Day of Defaet , CS S , UT2K4 , BF2 and any online game i play!!!

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RE: WTF!

By afkrotch on 8/22/2007 10:59:34 PM , Rating: 2

I blame lighting. Bad lighting hurts my eyes, causing my gaming performance to go downhill and fast.

I also blame pollution. I end up coughing and sneezing, which severely affects my gaming.

I blame solar flares. It causes Windows to reboot, lag, fps drops, and other anomalies.

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RE: WTF!

By elpresidente2075 on 8/22/2007 11:12:31 PM , Rating: 3

I blame your mom...

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RE: WTF!

By bobsonthegreat on 8/23/2007 4:49:51 AM , Rating: 1

^^ Inspired! Why can't I rate up peoples' comments?

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RE: WTF!

By Axbattler on 8/23/2007 7:00:46 AM , Rating: 2

You need to make a number of posts before you can rate.

And you also can not rate in topics you've participated.

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RE: WTF!

By Xenoterranos on 8/23/2007 9:31:23 AM , Rating: 2

That could be the Gamers Manifesto right there :)

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RE: WTF!

By afkrotch on 8/22/2007 7:15:08 PM , Rating: 4

I'm fine with computer input devices from Microsoft. I'm still using my Microsoft Intellimouse Optical. It's on it's like 5th year now or something.

As for Xbox 360, I'm on my 3rd one now. RROD happend to the last 2 ones. I also couldn't return them, due to me voiding the warranty. I really like enjoy modding.

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RE: WTF!

By CrystalBay on 8/22/2007 7:56:06 PM , Rating: 2

I still like my 2yr old plus MX1000...

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RE: WTF!

By onereddog on 8/23/2007 7:28:48 PM , Rating: 2

Agreed. I got the MX5000 keyboard and mouse and they both serve me fine for gaming.

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RE: WTF!

By Axbattler on 8/22/2007 8:07:55 PM , Rating: 2

The earlier (non optical) Intellimouse was one of my favourite. But I jumped boat (to Logitech mice) afterwards.

That said, the original (and USB version) of the Sidewinder Gamepad is one of my all time favourite gamepad. It had no analog stick making it less suitable today, but it was otherwise very well designed. Shame they killed the series (along with the Joysticks) though.

I would definitely like to test it next to a G9 next time I shop for a mouse. Going back to the original poster, I definitely appreciate bindable extra buttons as long as they do not get in the way (easily to accidentally press) for every day tasks.

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RE: WTF!

By afkrotch on 8/22/2007 8:31:02 PM , Rating: 2

I hold my mouse differently than most ppl and I find the Logitech mice uncomfortable. I keep my wrist firmly planted on my table and not in the air. Also my hands are smaller, so I can't reach many of the extra buttons of some mice.

I use to have one of the Intellimouse Explorer with tilt wheel. I could only use one of the side buttons, since I couldn't reach the 2nd one with my thumb.

Never been fond of the dpi adjustment buttons. I used my friend's Habu for about a month. I just sported two mice, as opposed to using the dpi adjustment buttons. I'd dangle the mouse that's not in use over one of my monitors, that way it wouldn't track, while not in use.

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Potential Problem

By KaerfSusej on 8/22/2007 8:45:31 PM , Rating: 2

I'm supposed to put the extra weights I'm not using... in the mouse?

quote:
The system is basically a place to coil up the excess USB cable and stuff it inside the mouse. The compartment can also double as a place to store the extra mouse feet and weights.

RE: Potential Problem

By afkrotch on 8/22/2007 9:19:32 PM , Rating: 3

You can either put it in the mouse or end up dragging it around, while you move your mouse around.

Course you can also take out some of the weights to even out the weight of the cables. I personally don't care about the weights. Probably just throw them all into the mouse, just so I don't have them populating a drawer or desk space.

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RE: Potential Problem

By bunnyfubbles on 8/22/2007 11:39:34 PM , Rating: 2

Its a part separate from the mouse...they created something that acts as a container for the extra mouse parts that can double as a cord anchor/cable management system.

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Ugly

By BruceLeet on 8/23/2007 3:20:21 AM , Rating: 2

My Logitech VX Revolution will do just fine til Logitechs next line of gaming mice

RE: Ugly

By Belard on 8/23/2007 3:51:02 AM , Rating: 2

Unlike any of the other M$ mice (not including the Razor-rebrand)- it includes divots in the scroll wheel... while the other MS mice with side scroll are free spinning, which is useless for many games, especially FPS when you're trying to cycle through your weapons. This mouse maynot include side-scroll.

Logitech's higher-end mice has it all and a metal wheel that is both free-spinning and divots, it works pretty cool.

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RE: Ugly

By afkrotch on 8/23/2007 4:14:43 AM , Rating: 3

Huh? Pretty much all the M$ mice have small notches in their scroll wheel. My 5 year old Intellimouse Optical has notches. My Laser Mouse 6000 has them. Currently using a one year old M$ Basic Optical Mouse at work, which has notches. It's been like that for years.

You can go into Windows mouse configuration and change how much a page scrolls for each notch. It's set to scroll 3 lines for each notch.

I can't think of any M$ mouse that doesn't have notches. I personally wouldn't be surprised if M$ mice have had notches ever since scroll wheels showed up on their mice.

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Maybe, if it was wireless

By Hakuryu on 8/22/2007 11:54:31 PM , Rating: 2

Been using the G7 wireless for over a year now, and love it... except for the thumb button they removed from previous mice. I game with it and never notice any 'lag' or other complaints from wireless haters.

This mouse looks to have 2, maybe 3 thumb buttons which I like. Ditch the LCD, put sensitivity on 2 buttons (not 3), make it wireless, and use a system like the G7's battery packs (takes seconds to swap, never without one)... and then I'll buy it - I really miss that 2nd thumb button.

RE: Maybe, if it was wireless

By afkrotch on 8/23/2007 1:10:20 AM , Rating: 2

The mouse is wired, there are only 2 thumb buttons, and the 3 buttons for dpi is set at 200, 400, and 2000 dpi.

Also the lag with wireless, is normally just when the battery goes low. I'm not one for having to be charging batteries or changing them. That's why I'm using wired keyboard and mouse.

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RE: Maybe, if it was wireless

By Houdani on 8/23/2007 10:24:24 AM , Rating: 2

I know Logitech recently added the second thumb button back onto the G5 ... maybe they'll wise up and give the G7 the same treatment. Single thumb button = Booo!

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The problem

By mindless1 on 8/23/2007 2:07:26 AM , Rating: 2

The problem as always is that MS cuts corners on the discrete components that matter (like the L/R click switches). They're interested in line-item features but not best long term use. Logitech trumps them in most cases.

RE: The problem

By afkrotch on 8/23/2007 5:28:28 AM , Rating: 2

Is this all just opinionated, without actual use. I've owned a number of different Microsoft mice and they have worked for years, before I've decided to replace them.

I currently have a 2 year old Microsoft Laser Mouse 6000, 5 year old Wheel Mouse Optical, 2 more two year old Wheel Mouse Opticals, and I just gave away a 4 year old Wireless Intellimouse Optical Explorer v2 (I think that's the name). I had an old Microsoft ball mouse, but that got thrown in the trash when opticals started coming out.

I back in the day, I had the original version of the Wireless Intellimouse Optical Explorer, but ended up getting v2, because of the tilt wheel. Ended up hating the tilt wheel, so went back to v1. Then got sick of having to constantly recharge batteries, so went to the old Wheel Mouse Optical. Then years later the Laser came out and I went with that. The old Wheel Mouse Optical received a paint job.

Anyways, I have never had a single Microsoft hardware product (minus Xbox 360) go bad on me. Course, as I've seen both the inside and outside of Microsoft's mice and Logitech's mice (Friend wanted me to paint his G5), I can say the L/R click switch doesn't appear to be any different. Both use plastic boxes with a button in the middle. A whole lot more complicated in the G5, because of the weights, but not much different.

I do remember opening up an ultra cheap like $5 mouse that used a metal box with a button in the middle. Internal parts were mostly the same, cept it was a ball mouse and if I still had it today, it would be around 7 years old. Broke with about 2 months use. I never bought extremely cheap mice again. I'll fork out the $20 to get a relatively decent mouse.

Oh, I did have a set of Logitech speakers and Logitech gamepad break on me. I stopped looking at Logitech after that.

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Preview

By BPB on 8/22/2007 11:37:03 PM , Rating: 3

http://hardware.gotfrag.com/portal/story/39380/

Gaming mice are stupid

By psychotix11 on 8/23/2007 9:04:58 AM , Rating: 2

Considering that the most "hardcore" gamers, ie those in CPL, GGL, WCG, ect, mostly use ms3.0 and mx510/518 all this ho-ha over laser mice is silly. Adjustable sense is silly as well since the best quake/unreal fraggers all use a stupid low sense and a gigantic mouse pad.

Making it laser is silly as well since those mice don't track well at low sense making them bad for top level play, hence why razer grew a brain and released another non laser optical mouse.

Stuff like this is pointless.

The side button set up...

By Vanilla Thunder on 8/23/2007 12:25:54 PM , Rating: 2

is pretty attractive IMO. Often times I have to reposition my hand to hit the 2nd side button on my MX518. I doubt this mouse would replace my tried and true Logitech, but I do like the position of the side buttons. As far as an LCD, the 180 spin, and the 3 DPI switches..not that interested. I never understood why they changed the DPI buttons on the Logitech mice. I prefer one on top and one below the scroll wheel. It just seems easier that way, and it's a lot of the reason I haven't upgraded to an '07 G5.

Vanilla

Mice are overrated

By glitchc on 8/23/2007 6:28:52 PM , Rating: 2

I remember a guy who used the num keys for mouselook. He flippin' owned at Quake 2.

A simple idea

By indianpunk on 8/27/2007 8:35:03 AM , Rating: 2

"Quick Turn macro button that turns your character 180 degrees at the touch of a button"

a very practical idea i wonder why no one got to understand it
i would have had so many frags in my quake 3 arena days

anyways it been six year since my simple logitech scroll is running nad i dont think why some people here feel to change mouse so often

I will not buy MS hardware.

By Roy2001 on 8/23/2007 1:10:19 PM , Rating: 1

As a OS company, MS NEVER update driver for they hardware. This is ridiculous.

I bought a MS USB 2.1 speaker system and it only works with 98. I bought a force feedback wheel and it won't work with 2000. When this wheel is still selling, XP is in the market. Same thing to many sidewinder game devices. I never get a driver update for force feedback joystick. They don't evey have driver download! Once you lost your obselete driver disk, you are pissed off!

Now the mouse, I have 8 type of 20+ MS mice. Their quality turns bad recently. IE4.0 button need to be push very hard after a while. I have to switch back to IE3.0 for gaming. They never have a good (no delay) wireless mouse for gaming.

Their keyboard has good design. But it becomes hard to press the key after a while. This is true to their natural keyboard, they wireless keyboard.

MS, do you hear me?