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Microsoft employees carry a coffin for Apple's iPhone  (Source: Carl J)

  (Source: Carl J)
Microsoft is pretty confident about how Windows Phone 7 will perform in the marketplace

Well, we can say that the folks from Redmond definitely have a morbid sense of humor. In celebration of the release to manufacturing (RTM) of Windows Phone 7, Microsoft held a mock funeral for two of the stars of the smartphone community: the Apple iPhone and RIM's BlackBerry.

According to Neowin, there were hearses for both the iPhone and the BlackBerry along with Microsoft employees dressed up in Windows Phone 7 garb. Microsoft even went so far as to have employees performing the infamous "Thriller Dance" to celebrate the hope that Windows Phone 7 will bury the competition.

Interestingly enough, while Microsoft definitely had Apple and RIM in its crosshairs today, “dead” Google was nowhere to be found. There were no hearses for the Android OS, so either Microsoft just overlooked this "minor" detail, or it doesn't think that it has the muscle to bury Android so quickly.

Windows Phone 7 is reportedly set to launch on October 11.



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It would be appropriate
By YashBudini on 9/10/10, Rating: 0
RE: It would be appropriate
By p05esto on 9/11/2010 11:14:14 AM , Rating: 5
Another clueless one here boys.... Vista and Win7 are practically identical under the hood and mostly in interface as well. After the Vista service pack there's very little difference, you turn down UAC and everything is just fine. I'm a 15 yr developer who builds $3k systems every year or two and guess what, I PREFER Vista 64 over Win7. I won't get into why but it's usability.

And don't forget in benchmarks both OS are almost idential in performance and in MANY tests Vista is the fastest. Know the facts, don't just buy into media hype and jump on the banwagon, especially when spouting off on an enthusiast site.


RE: It would be appropriate
By Desslok on 9/11/2010 1:00:21 PM , Rating: 2
What is if the fun in that? Of all the nerve to ask someone to back up what they say. I mean this is the internet!!!!:)

/sarcasm


RE: It would be appropriate
By Belard on 9/11/2010 3:01:06 PM , Rating: 1
You may PREFER... but Vista still sucks.

Operations of Win7 is better than vista. Win7 ran good on my notebook with 1GB, runs great with 2GB. Even my quad core only runs on 2GB of RAM. While I've seen 3~4GB Vista systems struggle for mundane things.

Yeah, Win7 is based off the core of Vista. But MS spent 2 years cleaning up the vista mess. If it was just another skin job, it would have taken months. But there are lots of improvements in Win7. The memory handling WILL never be fixed in Vista... you NEED Vista64 & 4~8GB of RAM to have a usable computer. I run with 2GB, I run 3-4 different browsers, Photoshop, encoding video in the background... and I'm running just fine.

Every open window in Vista eats a huge chunk system memory, even multi-tasking and such is a killer.

And what benchmarks are you talking about? WinXP on most systems, boot faster, shut down faster and of course games run faster over vista. That is constant. now, running a job such as encoding a video or 3D - is brute CPU force.... whoopie. Do several multi-tasking jobs and vista blows it every time.

Hey, lets head over to Newegg and see whats there.

Hmmm... Theres no VISTA there. Just Windows7. Vista went away before Windows7 - thats how much it sucked and was hated. Vista never approached XP market share... and 5 years from now, there will STILL be more XP users than vista ;)


RE: It would be appropriate
By inighthawki on 9/11/2010 3:31:54 PM , Rating: 2
Actually if you look at most benchmarks, it shows gaming performance has just about no difference, and sometimes favors vista or 7 over XP, and im not speaking of dx10. 7 also boots faster than XP, so I don't know where you got that statistic from.

http://lifehacker.com/5124955/windows-7-beta-boast...
http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/windows_7_gami...
http://www.hardwareheaven.com/articles.php?article...

I don't know where people get these strange ideas that XP some some sort of "gaming machine" with average of 10FPS or more in games, when in fact it's often times worse or on par with 7/Vista


RE: It would be appropriate
By Belard on 9/12/10, Rating: -1
RE: It would be appropriate
By themaster08 on 9/12/2010 4:04:35 AM , Rating: 2
I find it quite funny that every time Vista is even mentioned in any comment, you're always there ;).


RE: It would be appropriate
By B3an on 9/18/2010 9:04:08 PM , Rating: 2
I've built over 150 PC's with XP, Vista, And Win7 machines over the years and i can say without doubt that Vista SP2 is very nearly as fast as Win7. And while it wont run as good with 1GB as Win7, it's not far off at all.

Vista had many problems in the early days thanks mostly to 3rd party drivers, but using Vista or Win7 today they are practically identical for stability.


RE: It would be appropriate
By Wonga on 9/12/2010 9:08:57 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
..."or in vista's case, it'll shut down whenever it feels like it."


Negative.

quote:
"A 1GB Win7 PC will run better than a 4GB Vista..."


That's a negatory.


RE: It would be appropriate
By inighthawki on 9/13/2010 10:04:21 AM , Rating: 2
Perhaps my eyes work differently because with the exception of Arma 2, almost all games run within +/ 2 fps of XP, and in many cases 7 is leading. Even the second benchmark link I posted states in the conclusion that 7 performed better than XP. Denial much?


RE: It would be appropriate
By Wonga on 9/12/2010 9:07:20 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
"...you NEED Vista64 & 4~8GB of RAM to have a usable computer"


Negative.


RE: It would be appropriate
By sprockkets on 9/11/2010 3:51:06 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Another clueless one here boys.... Vista and Win7 are practically identical under the hood and mostly in interface as well. After the Vista service pack there's very little difference, you turn down UAC and everything is just fine. I'm a 15 yr developer who builds $3k systems every year or two and guess what, I PREFER Vista 64 over Win7. I won't get into why but it's usability. And don't forget in benchmarks both OS are almost idential in performance and in MANY tests Vista is the fastest. Know the facts, don't just buy into media hype and jump on the banwagon, especially when spouting off on an enthusiast site.


Actually one of the biggest differences is how the video sub system works. Anand went into detail about it, in short, they regressed one feature which sped up the processing considerably. Thus, Win7 isn't as sluggish.

But this is classic Microsoft. They get stuff right on the 3rd try. The Xbox360 hardware, their antivirus, Winvista to Vista SP1 then Win7, their Zune, etc.


RE: It would be appropriate
By Donkeyshins on 9/13/2010 12:55:25 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
But this is classic Microsoft. They get stuff right on the 3rd try. The Xbox360 hardware, their antivirus, Winvista to Vista SP1 then Win7, their Zune, etc.


I'd argue they got the Zune right in v1.0 (I still have my brown Zune) and continued to refine it through v2.0 and v3.0. I actually prefer the original to the v2.0 'squircle' version.

Unfortunately, when you are competing against a product that has become the default generic term for MP3 players it's hard to make much progress. Given this, I'd say however good the Windows 7 phone is, it'll be a viciously uphill battle against both the iPhone and Android.


RE: It would be appropriate
By YashBudini on 9/11/10, Rating: -1
RE: It would be appropriate
By theapparition on 9/11/2010 9:01:45 PM , Rating: 4
XP x64 was far, far, far more problematic than Vista ever was. That was a true POS.

quote:
A driver problem? Perhaps, but there were no driver conflicts, problems, or non-Windows drivers installed. So even then it was a Windows problem.

Non windows drivers? Microsoft packages supplied drivers with it's OS as a convience to it's customers. Even after WHQT, they can't be responsible for every single issue, it's the driver manufacturers job to take care of them. In your case it sounds like the chipset drivers for your particular motherboard were not up to par.
That's the real reason Vista was a disappointment. Not that anything was inherently wrong with Vista64, which was a great OS. Just that Vista was the first OS after MS changed the driver model. Hardware manufacturers had to scramble to re-write drivers, some procrastinated and put out poor drivers, others just plain botched it. But as a whole, Vista was trouble free. SP1 fixed any lingering minor issues that existed, including updating many of the poorly written (non-MS) drivers packed into the service pack.

quote:
I've been building systems since Win 3.1, and your preferences remain little else than your own.

Nice attempt at appeal to authority. I've been designing systems that go back to mainframe DEC and IBM. By your logic, my opinion now carries more weight than yours.

FWIW,
On my companies computers, we ran exclusively Vista64. Even pre SP1, never had the majority of issues that people complain about (albeit we only run new hardware). Almost all computers have been upgraded to Windows 7 now, and that's primarily because as leases expire, the new hardware comes in with Win7, not because we had any issue with Vista.

Anyone who claims that Win7 is somehow dramatically different under the hood compared to Vista is delusional.


RE: It would be appropriate
By Reclaimer77 on 9/12/2010 12:45:49 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Anyone who claims that Win7 is somehow dramatically different under the hood compared to Vista is delusional.


It doesn't matter. The fact of the matter is there ARE improvements and they are significant, and you can't get them using Vista, you need Windows 7. For example, and this isn't up for debate, SSD drive performance in Windows 7 is significantly faster than Vista. That alone is a deal breaker for me, because I own an SSD and plan on never going back to HDD for my OS.

If it makes you feel better, just call Windows 7 Vista Fixed. It's mostly Vista, sure. But it's the fixed version with goodies you can't get in Vista.


RE: It would be appropriate
By YashBudini on 9/12/10, Rating: 0
RE: It would be appropriate
By talonvor on 9/17/2010 7:52:14 PM , Rating: 2
I hate to say it, but vista had serious memory problems right from the start. Granted those issues have been addressed somewhat.


RE: It would be appropriate
By gcor on 9/11/10, Rating: 0
RE: It would be appropriate
By Reclaimer77 on 9/11/2010 8:29:32 PM , Rating: 2
I skipped Vista from XP and went straight to 7, but to call Vista MS's "biggest fail on record" is just trolling ignorance. Everyone knows Millennium was MS's biggest failure. Hell Vista is just fine after Service Pack 1, ME NEVER got better, it was just buried quickly. Also Windows 95 was no picnic either. I would rank Vista far ahead of those two.


RE: It would be appropriate
By gcor on 9/11/2010 9:05:28 PM , Rating: 1
By biggest fail, I'm referring to damage in the market. 95 was not a great product, but still better than 3.11. ME was a dud, but, as you say, it got replaced quick and NT was around as a solid alternative. Vista hung around like a bad smell for years, with only XP as fall back option. Joe average customers got to know it was horrible. I'd be saying Vista did more for OS-X than anything Apple's vile ads did. To me, tanking in the market AND giving market share to a competitor is the biggest fail. 95 & ME didn't have anything like that impact.


RE: It would be appropriate
By inighthawki on 9/11/2010 9:20:56 PM , Rating: 2
Vista only earned a bad rep for poor 3rd party drivers. In fact, many people had it fine. I actually used Vista since pre-beta when it was still longhorn and installed new builds on a monthly or even biweekly basis. And the result? I never once had a single problem with ANY of the builds, even beta. What does that mean? It wasn't Vista's fault t all, it was drivers. If you got crappy drivers for your hardware, then it means you picked some bad brands to work with because they can't even be good enough to release proper drivers. It's people like you who got bad hardware and believe all the mudslinging by people like Apple and assume that Vista was a bad OS, when in fact it was actually a really well-made polished OS that was ages ahead of XP.


RE: It would be appropriate
By gcor on 9/11/10, Rating: -1
RE: It would be appropriate
By inighthawki on 9/11/2010 10:32:05 PM , Rating: 2
No I didn't mean the hardware itself had problems like malfunctioning, but the hardware companies DID slack when making drivers for said hardware. Drivers that had matured for years on XP had been rushed out the door in days or weeks for Vista, making them unstable. If you look at charts, you will see that over 75% of the crashes caused by Vista in its early days were caused by ATi, nVidia, and Intel.

Also if you've seriously had that much trouble, you may want to figure out another problem. I mean, how many countless desktops and laptops do people like Dell, HP, etc ship that work FLAWLESSLY with all of MS's OSs, yet you can't seem to get ONE to work? Sounds like you might be doing something wrong. Even I have built dozens of systems that all work fine with a multitude of OSs ranging from 98 to 7 and everywhere in-between.


RE: It would be appropriate
By gcor on 9/11/2010 11:19:12 PM , Rating: 1
Good for you!

I'm so glad everything has been sunshine and light and nothing has ever gone wrong in your world. Looking at the forums where people have had trouble and have sometimes found the cause and even work arounds, I don't think I'm the only one who's had trouble with MS and compatibility. But, good for you and your ability to always get it right first time.

I'd love to see you get a motherboard working that occasionally used instructions reserved for the OS. That one took longer than the warrantte period before people discovered that one out.

Problems like that are many are varied. Of course, if you're prescient and choose only parts that work 100% with MS, well done you. Notice I said "work", not "comply with spec", because MS doesn't always work to their own specs, sometimes due to the spec being imprecise, at error (i.e. can't be implemented) or just a buggy implemention on their end. Yes, I've seen them all. I'd don't blame MS for making mistakes like this occasionally, everyone is human, they just seem to make a lot of them.

These problems happen. I worked specifying the 3G mobile phone air interface, which is an open standard, worked on by many vendors. So, I've seen my fair share of spec problems fall through the cracks and need work arounds after release. In my opinion, MS just do a LOT of them.


RE: It would be appropriate
By Belard on 9/12/10, Rating: 0
RE: It would be appropriate
By Reclaimer77 on 9/12/2010 2:22:27 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
And in many ways, Windows7 isn't either.


I was a XP holdover who skipped Vista, but even I can't agree with this statement. On the same hardware, Windows7 is a total and significant upgrade from XP. No doubt about it. And I'm not talking about DX11, it's a lot more obvious than that in day to day use.


RE: It would be appropriate
By Belard on 9/12/2010 1:20:11 PM , Rating: 2
I'm talking about ability and business. For small business, schools and many people - there isn't any real advantage for Win7. Keep in mind that many were using DOS well into Windows98, some even into Win7 (ugh).

Yes, when using WinXP at a clients place is sometimes odd when I'm trying to do a Win7 GUI functions like throwing windows to the side, etc. But that doesn't keep me from getting work done. V/W7 are still based off of XP along with many of built-in defects NT in general, compatibility is important after-all.

But, other than DX10~11, what can Win7 do that XP cant? Networking, browsing, MS-Office, etc etc.. There isn't a single Win7 game out there... other than HALO2 and that was (A) artificial (B) a crappy game (C) there are hacks for that. Maybe 1-2 other MS games are also "DX10" only for sake of forcing people into vista (fail). It is completely in MS's ability to make HALO3 and REACH for PC - but MS wants people on Xbox with its LOW-res. So to a degree, DX10~12 are moot if high-end PC gaming dies (other than MMORPG and RTS games).

When you grow up on computers from the beginning such as Commodore 64 (8bit, 1Mhz - NO HD) and AppleIIs (same stats, but ugh) then to original 9" B&W MAC which were like "WOW!!" and Amigas at 8mhz. When going from 2 to 16 colors is a BIG jump, much less 256 and then thousands.

Windows 7 is a very good upgrade and change over the 10 year old WindowsXP.


RE: It would be appropriate
By Reclaimer77 on 9/12/2010 7:22:29 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
For small business, schools and many people - there isn't any real advantage for Win7.


The added security over XP alone is "worth it." I don't think there's any debate that 7 is by far more secure down to the kernel level than XP ever was. The problem is, it costs LOTS of money to change OS's due to MS's licensing structure. So if schools or businesses seem reluctant to go to 7, that isn't a mark against the OS itself.

Having said that, I do believe I read that 7 is enjoying impressive business adoption rates compared to Vista.

quote:
But, other than DX10~11, what can Win7 do that XP cant? Networking, browsing, MS-Office, etc etc..


Well by this logic we could all still be using Windows 2000. It does all that stuff too! As far as the gaming stuff, high end PC gaming isn't going anywhere this decade in my opinion.


RE: It would be appropriate
By Wonga on 9/12/2010 9:13:59 AM , Rating: 3
"Out of box experince on a Vista PC, even with latest SPs... sucked."

Negative.


RE: It would be appropriate
By Belard on 9/12/2010 11:46:22 AM , Rating: 2
You are entitled to your opinion.

I pretty much know my way around Vista, since I have Windows7 on two of my own computers. I've set up a Toshiba notebook with Vista as good as it'll ever get (cleaned out crap, installed good tools - that I use on my own computers) - its technically FASTER & BETTER than my ThinkPad, even when I had 1GB RAM installed... it was still slower and still sucked right next to my ThinkPad... with XP and with Win7.

One of my friends, who does quite a bit beta-testing, tried to get me to use Vista... Sometime after SP1 was installed, even he got tired of Vista and went back to XP. He's been using Win7 only since RCs. I put an RC on my ThinkPad and loved it. Put XP back on for about a month or so... ;)


RE: It would be appropriate
By frobizzle on 9/13/2010 9:31:05 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Also Windows 95 was no picnic either.

95 was world's better compared to its predecessor, Win 3.11! Yes, there were problems with 95 - among other issues, plug and play literally was plug and pray. And Microsoft recognized that. That's why there were 4 or 5 versions of 95


RE: It would be appropriate
By Reclaimer77 on 9/13/2010 9:53:07 AM , Rating: 2
lol so true. But I didn't wanna go back TOO far in my examples.


RE: It would be appropriate
By dark matter on 9/12/2010 11:49:22 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Another clueless one here boys.... Vista and Win7 are practically identical under the hood and mostly in interface as well.


Well the taskbar is nothing like Vista. Nor is the snap interface. The libraries in explorer are different. And then you have the fact that the GDI in Vista isn't hardware accelerated and every window needs to be buffered. Due to this Vista needs an AWFUL lot of RAM if you open a lot of windows as it has to buffer them all.

Windows 7 reverts this and all GDI interfaces are hardware accelerated. I cannot understand why ANYONE would prefer an un-accelerated 2D desktop environment over one that utilises the GPU.

quote:

After the Vista service pack there's very little difference, you turn down UAC and everything is just fine.


Millions would disagree with you, but given the advice above and the ridiculous pissing contest you come out with below I would be wasting my time offering any more justifications.

quote:

I'm a 15 yr developer who builds $3k systems every year or two and guess what, I PREFER Vista 64 over Win7.


WTF is this about? Did you mean to say you're a 15 year old "developer" who gets 3k off daddikins every year to build his latest and greatest and then has a $800 GPU sitting there not being used because Vista is unable to utilise the hardware properly to render your desktop.

quote:

I won't get into why


But yet you still do....

quote:

but it's usability. And don't forget in benchmarks both OS are almost idential in performance and in MANY tests Vista is the fastest.


Is this what you do with your time? Read tests on your 3k rig? What not learn a skill, like Maya, you know put that 3k rig to good use. Oh wait a minute, you can't put your GPU to good use. Still, you must have plenty of ram and plenty of CPU power to help you render those web pages.

quote:

Know the facts, don't just buy into media hype and jump on the banwagon, especially when spouting off on an enthusiast site.


Ha ha ha. You know what, you really had me fooled right up until this last point. You're taking the piss right. Well, it was really convincing I must say.

If you're not, well, words really do escape me. God help your employer is all I can say.


RE: It would be appropriate
By Belard on 9/12/2010 9:45:41 PM , Rating: 1
I've meet my share of "experienced" who don't know squat. Its rather odd that anyone would prefer vista over 7 and then claim to be experts.

When Vista was very new and limited XP, a friend's mother; about 80yrs old - needed a new PC right there and then. I didn't have time to build. So we picked up a Compaq with Vista. Yeah, not top-end with a P4-Class CPU, 1GB of RAM... but it was cheap and ALL she needs to do is (A) check her email and (B) play Solitaire since her hands are very bad. Her old Celeron 300mhz HP had died that day and a 2+Ghz CPU should be more than enough to handle the job.

I cleaned out the crap and useless junk and got that machine as fast as it'll ever get. For almost 2 months, at least once a week - she'd call me about THIS not working, lock-ups, not shutting down, not booting up, running slow... RUNNING SLOW for an 80 year old WOMAN?! Solitaire CRASHED constantly and while it looks great, MS's made the game require more hand-strokes/button presses to work so the game HURT her hands! I've donated another GB of RAM, a bit better.

Screw this!

She spent $100 for XP-HOME, I got on the phone with HP to find the hidden XP drivers over various FTP & HTTP locations.
I wanted the drivers ready to go, and I started unpacking the 40mb audio driver. Get this...

Vista spends about 2 minutes, calculating HOW LONG IT WILL TAKE TO UNPACK THE FRACKIN FILE! TWO MINUTES!! Then it starts unpacking and reports it'll take something like 8~10 minutes! WTF! I stop that, pulled the plug (screw shutting down vista and what little data she had was on my USB key), I completely wiped out the HD, installed XP.... get this, that SAME 40mb ZIP file unpacked in about 35 seconds! On my own desktop, that same file would take about 15~20 seconds (we're talking 3-4 years ago).

Yeah.. Vista rocks! 2mins+10min to unpack a ZIP file vs. 20seconds under XP... thats really advanced! Bull.

And of course she was complaining about the UAC... UAC bugs you about adjusting your video settings!! WTF?! etc etc, over and over again - non-stop. Yeah, I killed that too.. vista still ran like crap.

Anyways... since the day I replaced that vista crap with XP, I've never heard a peep about any computer issues. I talked to her today... she never talks about her computer or at least any issues.

Yeah, the people who lived through vista and have 8~12GB of RAM have nothing to complain about I guess. I was afraid Win7 was going to be just as crappy (memory wise) as vista, so I built even bottom-end PCs with 4GB and Windows7 MCE/PRO... memory was cheap back then too, $50~60 for 4GB (thanks to vista).

Since Windows7 came out, I've yet to upgrade my Quad core system from its original 2GB. I have other things to spend $50 on. A date and movie, gas, etc. Only 1 game, Supreme Commander - kills my memory with medium to large maps. oh well.

I've installed Win7-RC on very old computers... like 1.6Ghz AMD-32 with 512mb of RAM...and they ran better than vista systems with 3GB.

I've been encoding while typing this. 1GB free.


...
By Brandon Hill (blog) on 9/10/2010 11:39:16 PM , Rating: 5
All I want to know is, where is the coffin for Kin?




RE: ...
By amanojaku on 9/10/2010 11:58:38 PM , Rating: 5
Perhaps MS thinks the iPhone and Blackberry are the... next of Kin?

/duck


RE: ...
By Motoman on 9/11/2010 12:24:42 AM , Rating: 5
You lose 12 internets for that comment. Also, your +20 Cloak of Charisma is irreparably damaged.


RE: ...
By EricMartello on 9/11/2010 3:47:34 AM , Rating: 2
<nelson>ha-ha</nelson>


RE: ...
By AntDX316 on 9/11/10, Rating: 0
RE: ...
By Desslok on 9/11/2010 12:50:10 PM , Rating: 1
My thoughts exactly as soon as that pic loaded!:) Way to go MSFT!


RE: ...
By raumkrieger on 9/11/2010 2:54:42 PM , Rating: 4
Aston Martin makes hearses?

I don't think the iPhone deserves an Aston Martin hearse anyways.


RE: ...
By Camikazi on 9/11/2010 8:12:17 PM , Rating: 3
Why spend so much on your competitors hearse? Buy a beat up old hatchback to show what you think about them :P


RE: ...
By jbwhite99 on 9/13/2010 11:59:23 AM , Rating: 2
perhaps like a Pinto? (or is that what we should use for Vista?)


RE: ...
By ians55 on 9/13/2010 1:15:09 PM , Rating: 2
... or redneck pickup truck.


RE: ...
By Reclaimer77 on 9/11/2010 7:54:19 AM , Rating: 5
It was cremated.


RE: ...
By Helbore on 9/13/2010 1:10:58 PM , Rating: 2
It's family disowned it and had to settle for a dumpster, rather than a coffin.


Yeah, because ZUNE totally destroyed the iPODs....
By Belard on 9/11/10, Rating: 0
By Malak on 9/12/2010 3:08:35 AM , Rating: 2
Zune is actually a superior product in many ways though. Even the software is better and I love the Zune Pass. Apple made a great MP3 player that had no competition, same with the iPhone. Now that the iPhone has competition it is going downhill. It's odd that usually it's Apple that people love to hate, but people seem to ignore Microsoft in other markets. The ZuneHD is fantastic, and if you've got one of those you'll definitely be looking for this new phone.


By Reclaimer77 on 9/13/2010 8:59:35 AM , Rating: 2
Notice how people who bash the Zune never actually list technical or end user reasons for why it "sucks" and the iPod is so much better? It's always just LOLLERCOASTER ZUNE SUCKS HAHAAHAHA IPOD ROX!!!!


By mcnabney on 9/13/2010 10:19:13 AM , Rating: 1
Zune did not suck for any technical reason. It sucked because it didn't sell.

Windows Phone 7 is just a Zune that makes phone calls. It is going to fail just as hard as the Zune did. This time next year we will be burrying a Windows phone, not Apple or RIM. Well, RIM is getting a little shakey.

Apple and RIM really aren't even direct competitors. Apple's customers generally either buy stylish products or anything with an Apple logo. RIM's customers are primarily corporate. So the OS that Microsoft is really going up against is Android. So a generally disliked company like MS is going to try to sell a product that is in no way superior (and in many ways inferior) to their rival. That rival is already the number one player in the States and can offer a dozen different varieties and a large and growing App Store. Yeah, Microsoft doesn't have a prayer. The Zune-faithful and MS fanatics might buy, but nobody else will. There is even confusion in the name of the OS since it sounds like their current desktop OS.


By jimbojimbo on 9/13/2010 11:15:07 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
RIM's customers are primarily corporate. So the OS that Microsoft is really going up against is Android
It's because RIM's customers are mostly corporate that they should worry the most. On a purely corporate IT point of view the iPhone is ok since it supports most of the major features of activesync policies. The Android unfortunately still has no encryption, although it'll act like it does to Exchange. If Windows Phone 7 plays along with Exchange and activesync perfectly it will be a completely viable, and cheaper, alternative to the Blackberry. RIM should be worried.


By sviola on 9/13/2010 11:17:44 AM , Rating: 3
WP7 does play along with Exchange and Activesync. It also has Sharepoint integration (not to mention Office).


By mcnabney on 9/13/2010 12:08:21 PM , Rating: 2
Android allows applications to provide the higher level of encryption if required.

For example, I use an application called Touchdown on my Droid to access my corporate exchange server. It provides a higher degree of encryption than current RIM/BES offerings.


By sviola on 9/13/2010 11:15:37 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
...is going to try to sell a product that is in no way superior (and in many ways inferior) to their rival.


Based on what do you say it is not a superior product?

quote:
That rival is already the number one player in the States and can offer a dozen different varieties and a large and growing App Store.


If I'm not wrong, people said the same about Android, that iPhone was the leader, had tons of App, no one to dethrone them. And also, there is no late to the mobile market. It is in its infancy, few people have smartphones compared to feature phones, and any good product has space for growing and getting market share.

quote:
There is even confusion in the name of the OS since it sounds like their current desktop OS.


It is an intended confusion: Win 7 is their best selling OS and is well praised by media and public in general. They're just adding value to their mobile product by making it have a similar name.


By mcnabney on 9/13/2010 12:13:02 PM , Rating: 2
Android had a key advantage.

It was being sold on all four wireless networks. That gave it the ability to rapidly evolve (remember, 12 months ago there was no Android selection) and fill a serious desire in the wireless device market.

That opening no longer exists. The Android platform has taken all of Microsoft's wireless device business and there isn't any reason for them to want to go back. The Android device choices are very broad now, and will only get more open. Android's killer app was being anything an iPhone could be, and more. What can WinPhone7 do that the market is aching for?


By clovell on 9/13/2010 1:55:31 PM , Rating: 3
In a word, No. If WinPhone 7 pulls off integration across the user bases you described (Exchange, Encryption, etc. for business; XBL, MP3, and Video for the stylish folks; Apps, camera, smooth OS for the everyday crowd), lots of people will buy.

Microsoft is leveraging its greatest strength (experience and penetration in other markets) to bolster its greatest weakness here (lack of penetration in the current gen of smartphones).

It's good to see them going balls-out on this. I hope they do well.


By Belard on 9/13/2010 6:50:22 PM , Rating: 2
All smart phones are competition with each other.

RIM still somewhat sucks, but it a lot better than the models from several years ago.

In a small office, we had WinModile & RIM phones... they were all replaced by iPhones. I'm thinking about both an iPhone and Android for my next phone. iPhone has a better screen and battery life but Android is far more open, but studders. There are promises of new phones in the next few months with many improvements.


By Reclaimer77 on 9/14/2010 2:08:52 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Zune did not suck for any technical reason. It sucked because it didn't sell.


That doesn't make it "suck". And it's not MS's fault if people are stupid uneducated sheep.


Android was featured!
By sciwizam on 9/11/2010 1:25:07 AM , Rating: 3
While there was no hearse for Android, it was featured. Check this photo: "Andr Falling"

http://www.flickr.com/photos/trioculus/4977657316/...




RE: Android was featured!
By AnotherGuy on 9/11/2010 2:06:08 AM , Rating: 2
I could understand them not going against number ONE phone OS platform... since MS has really no chance of beating all competition but if they really showed like burying any of the top tier phone OS's then that is really a big joke on themselves... and a pathetic one...


RE: Android was featured!
By pugster on 9/12/2010 3:29:03 PM , Rating: 2
I don't recall if you know about the netscape-IE days but Microsoft spent more than 2 billion to push out IE thus the reason why IE is still the dominant browser today. Same when Microsoft decided to make the original xbox. Then the xbox progressed to the xbox 360 and they became one of the dominant player of the console wars.

Microsoft can 'bundle' their smartphone product or just give their product for free to drive out the competition.


RE: Android was featured!
By vapore0n on 9/13/2010 8:29:18 AM , Rating: 1
The problem is, this product depends on companies like Verizon, that think with their wallet. $30 data plan for the Kin is what sealed it coffin.

Microsoft cant afford to make such push in the market as they have done before. Especially against established competitors like the IPhone.


RE: Android was featured!
By arachnid on 9/11/2010 2:39:41 AM , Rating: 3
Retards
By macthemechanic on 9/11/2010 8:21:53 AM , Rating: 1
Spending time on pointless theatrics when they should be working on fixing the source of problems in Windows vulnerabilities, instead of forced end users to patch every week. Talk about a time waster.




RE: Retards
By Camikazi on 9/12/2010 7:46:13 PM , Rating: 3
You realize that software as complex as an OS will NEVER be without vulnerabilities right? They can fix every single exploit and vulnerability with Windows right now and tomorrow there will be a hundred more found. Software is made by humans and because of it will ALWAYS have bugs. The most any company can do is find them and patch them as soon as possible and that is it.


RE: Retards
By gamerk2 on 9/13/2010 10:29:56 AM , Rating: 2
Ummm...M$ is far ahead of Apple on the security front. Security in the form of obscurity is not security at all, after all.

Apple OS regularlly gets torn apart at Black Hat confrences; Apple hasn't even implemented Address Space randomization yet...


RE: Retards
By Donkeyshins on 9/13/2010 12:51:06 PM , Rating: 3
+1 for the message.
-1 for using "M$"
Net change = 0


The Feeling
By mindless1 on 9/11/2010 1:39:20 PM , Rating: 1
Yes, it is far more important to pretend you can celebrate a victory over those who defeated you, instead of morning the loss of lives and freedom from 9/11.

MS, some of your employees seem a bit like fvcktards.




RE: The Feeling
By dark matter on 9/12/2010 5:30:59 AM , Rating: 3
Our own governments took away our freedoms after 9/11, let's not go blaming third parties eh. The longer we keep doing that, the more our governments can take from us. Wise up.


RE: The Feeling
By jimbojimbo on 9/13/2010 11:17:07 AM , Rating: 5
I just "morn" for the days when people actually knew how to spell.


Dumb idea.
By SGforce on 9/10/2010 10:51:48 PM , Rating: 2
Why not a fake hanging or burning effigy? It makes about as much sense.




RE: Dumb idea.
By sprockkets on 9/10/2010 10:57:27 PM , Rating: 3
Or how about a burial for the crap that was Windows Mobile 6 and below? It makes sense, as Microsoft themselves only renamed it 4 times now, and eventually killed it.

And why not for good ol' times sake, let's do one for WinME.


RE: Dumb idea.
By frobizzle on 9/13/2010 9:11:33 AM , Rating: 2
Maybe the other companies should have a funeral for Microsoft Bob!


video
By Talcite on 9/10/2010 11:13:19 PM , Rating: 4
The video linked to is pure gold. I'm no fan of microsoft products (I use linux/symbian on everything), but I can appreciate their humour.

It's like the cake they sent to the firefox team on release day. http://www.openbuddha.com/2008/06/17/ie-sends-mozi...




RE: video
By Donkeyshins on 9/13/2010 12:50:24 PM , Rating: 2
The cake is a lie.


Backfire incoming.
By spathotan on 9/10/10, Rating: 0
RE: Backfire incoming.
By gibb3h on 9/11/2010 4:52:43 AM , Rating: 2
I love my zune ;_;


RE: Backfire incoming.
By jimbojimbo on 9/13/2010 11:19:42 AM , Rating: 2
And you believe the ipod was the first mp3 player ever made.


Funeral marketing.... bad taste
By Kosh401 on 9/11/10, Rating: 0
By Homerboy on 9/13/2010 9:51:39 AM , Rating: 4
You're serious?


HPalm
By johnsonx on 9/11/2010 3:28:52 PM , Rating: 2
At first I was disappointed they didn't include HPalm in their little dig, but maybe it's for the best. Yes, Microsoft, ignore HPalm... be complacent... slumber... the little guy isn't going to do anything.




RE: HPalm
By sviola on 9/13/2010 11:22:05 AM , Rating: 2
It is of good sense not to make fun of one of your biggest customer products, even if it is competing with yours...


Odd.
By NuclearDelta on 9/11/2010 12:08:28 AM , Rating: 3
It seems they burred someone else's product but gave vista nothing more than the old "Wrap "em in newspaper and toss em off the freeway overpass" without mention.




:)
By judasmachine on 9/11/2010 3:36:08 PM , Rating: 3
Meanwhile...

Google planning funeral for WinPhone7.

Seriously though, I love this kind of advertising. It's just more fun than the boring, "Hey, ours is better," commercials.




RE: :)
By mcnabney on 9/13/10, Rating: 0
By bobkemp2123 on 9/12/2010 11:31:23 AM , Rating: 3
This is an office party on the Microsoft campus. This is not an advertising stunt. There were about 15 floats in this "Doo Dah" style parade. It wasn't just a "funeral". What's with all this politically correct nonsense. This was a private office party. Have a sense of humor.




Dunder Mifflin
By LifeByTheHorns on 9/13/2010 10:06:05 AM , Rating: 2
When did Microsoft hire Michael Scott?

This seems like an Office classic.




Hah
By DKantUno on 9/16/2010 1:51:49 PM , Rating: 2
I think this is a great attitude to have when you are coming from behind. :D I personally am quite optimistic about Windows Phone 7 - I don't think it will take the world by storm, but it will be a good alternative and replace fanboyish "iPhone vs Android" nerd-wars with a 3-way battle that will (hopefully!!) restore reason in discussions on phones/platforms. I believe we tend to take sides more easily (and more blindly, and more loudly, and..) when there are just two parties involved than when there are three or more. I mean, look at Republican vs Democrat debates in the US versus ANY discussion on politics in (the multi-party) India - everyone agrees that all politicians suck and in 5 minutes we are happily sharing samosas! :)




Magic
By kingius on 10/8/2010 9:12:40 AM , Rating: 2
Sympathetic magic?




Bad Taste
By TallCoolOne on 9/11/10, Rating: -1
RE: Bad Taste
By AstroGuardian on 9/11/10, Rating: -1
RE: Bad Taste
By mindless1 on 9/11/2010 1:47:12 PM , Rating: 4
Interesting idea, suing people for being offensive idiots... just don't think it will work in practice.


RE: Bad Taste
By AstroGuardian on 9/11/10, Rating: -1
RE: Bad Taste
By dark matter on 9/12/2010 5:27:53 AM , Rating: 4
Great, sounds like a dream world. You can't say your opinion in case it "offends" someone. And given how people are easily offended these days, well, you be best of not saying anything. But then what if your silence offends me.

Whoops.


RE: Bad Taste
By mindless1 on 9/11/2010 1:42:17 PM , Rating: 2
It's a sign of immaturity similar to their philosophy about when a product is ready for release. For example WHS corrupting files using the one feature that made it slightly unique? You can't make up stories this rich.


RE: Bad Taste
By driver01z on 9/14/2010 12:50:22 PM , Rating: 2
They rented a hearse.

They actually...

rented...

why would

just... nevermind


Advertising, publicity stunt, or mudslinging?
By Icehearted on 9/10/10, Rating: -1
RE: Advertising, publicity stunt, or mudslinging?
By amanojaku on 9/11/2010 12:11:38 AM , Rating: 2
How naive. If you're busy pointing out the other guy's flaws then he doesn't have the chance to point out what his strengths are. Or what your flaws are. Being better isn't about putting in real effort and using your talents. It's about discrediting the other guy while doing as little as possible.


By Icehearted on 9/11/2010 3:50:17 AM , Rating: 1
I disagree, entirely. One needn't use theatrics or trade barbs with their competitor, they need only to exhibit superiority either in quality, pricing, service, or all, in order to be successful.

Nintendo, for example, excluded themselves from this silly 'console war' and their Wii system was an untouchable juggernaut in sales because rather than focusing on what the others didn't offer, they focused on what they themselves had to offer . They did nothing to dump on the competition (not even with their DS with regard to the PSP) and they outsold MS and Sony's entries by a huge margin.


RE: Advertising, publicity stunt, or mudslinging?
By B3an on 9/11/2010 5:19:55 AM , Rating: 2
I wish more companies were like that. But the fact is, atleast 1/3 people are mentally retarded.
So look how well it does for crApple. Look at there MAC vs PC commercials, there blatant lies in much of there advertising, and even when there phone has an antennae problem they like to pretend it's normal and all phones do it.


By theapparition on 9/11/2010 12:37:40 PM , Rating: 2
Mock funerals work well for polarizing personalities like Howard Stern.

I don't think MS is in the same position. They have nothing to gain, and everything to lose. My prediction is that you'll soon see an MS press release saying that this was a test promotion done by a contracted marketing team, not an official MS sanctioned event, and they take no responsibility, blah, blah.

At least Stern had the smarts to do the funeral after he went to #1 in a market, not before he was even on the radio.


By Reclaimer77 on 9/11/2010 9:12:35 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
Nintendo, for example, excluded themselves from this silly 'console war' and their Wii system was an untouchable juggernaut in sales because rather than focusing on what the others didn't offer, they focused on what they themselves had to offer .


Nintendo was in dire financial trouble and could NOT take place in the "console war". I'm not going to speculate, however, and say they would have if they could. But I don't believe this is a good example in the context of this topic.


RE: Advertising, publicity stunt, or mudslinging?
By bplewis24 on 9/11/2010 10:22:50 AM , Rating: 4
You're kidding yourself if you think Nintendo did no "mudslinging" or being critical of other platforms while hyping up the Wii. But what you've illustrated is just how favorably people can look upon a company that does the same things as everybody else when they LIKE THE COMPANY.

That is exactly what fanboyism is all about.

Brandon


By Icehearted on 9/11/2010 3:35:20 PM , Rating: 2
I don't currently own a Nintendo system. I used Nintendo as an example because they really did say they were fishing for a different audience than Sony and MS with their current platforms (and I own a Xbox 360, FYI).

Maybe a little fact checking on your part would have helped your argument float a bit better.


RE: Advertising, publicity stunt, or mudslinging?
By Camikazi on 9/11/2010 8:18:14 PM , Rating: 2
I love Nintendo, but they had to go for a different audience then Sony and MS, cause they knew they could not compete with them. Wii and it's unique audience was what saved Nintendo, if they had taken part in the console wars of Sony and MS they would have been crushed. They just did not have what was needed to fight Sony and MS on their turf and they knew it.


By Icehearted on 9/11/2010 8:44:23 PM , Rating: 2
I don't disagree. My point is simply that they were successful without having to resort to theatrics like this. No prodding their competitors (and the other big two are competing with them, especially now that they're really pushing motion control), no mudslinging, and for a couple of years their hardware still managed to outsell the other two by a wide margin.


By gamerk2 on 9/13/2010 10:35:53 AM , Rating: 2
Agree that Nintendo HAD to go in a different situation, though its important to note its dire financial situation. Its also worth noting that their software sales, outside of first party title...not doing so well right now. Lets see how the Wii holds up for the next few years, shall we? Personally, I think the novelty is wearing off. [I'm also predicting Move/Kinnect to be massive failures; wrong audience combined with limited support = bad combination].

Oddly, the support problem is reversed in the portable market; the Wonderswan Color was the last real competitor Nintendo's had in that arena...


By Camikazi on 9/20/2010 5:28:20 PM , Rating: 2
Of course they did not prod or bother their competition, they knew they couldn't cause pissing off the big guys when your bleeding in a corner is a BAD idea. Their only chance was slowly moving away from the big two and finding your own corner to play in and heal, they didn't do it cause they wanted too, they did it cause they had to.


"It looks like the iPhone 4 might be their Vista, and I'm okay with that." -- Microsoft COO Kevin Turner

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