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No comment on Zune Phone other than stay tuned

When Microsoft comes to a new area of business, it's common to see it go from a startup to a dominate player in the market. So far, Microsoft has yet to be able to do this in the MP3 player market. The Zune has been around for a while now and still is hanging around with single-digit market share.

While the iPod and Sansa run away from the other players in the digital audio player (DAP) market, Microsoft is working to make a better device. CNET News talked with Microsoft's Joe Belfiore, the head of Microsoft's Zune development.

Belfiore says Microsoft is working on its individual devices first, but that in the future Microsoft will begin working on allowing for a more unified experience between devices. What Microsoft eventually hopes to see is the ability for owners of a Zune, Xbox, and Mediaroom IPTV device to be able to access the same content on all of the devices.

Microsoft admits that this is something for the not-too distant future. Today, there is too small a portion of users who own the Zune, Xbox, and a Mediaroom device to work on the sharing technology according to Belfiore. As adoption of multiple Microsoft devices grows, this is something that could be offered from Microsoft.

Belfiore points out that being able to offer content on multiple devices is also something that requires the approval of people outside Microsoft -- namely the content owners. Content owners would much prefer to sell consumers new versions of the same digital track of video for each device than allow convenient sharing of the same content amongst devices.

Belfiore told CNET News, "As more and more people have more than one of those devices, then the cross-device scenarios become more important, and undoubtedly it is something you will see us do at some point in the not-too-distant future."

CNET News also asked about plans for a possible Zune phone to combat the iPhone. Belfiore declined to comment specifically, but did say stay tuned. Microsoft recently introduced new Zune models with higher storage capacities.



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Share... the same content...
By Saist on 9/11/2008 12:37:10 PM , Rating: 5
I just love how Microsoft phrases what they want to do... they want people to be able to share the content between 3 different devices, Zune, Xbox, and Mediaroom IPTV.

Of course, what isn't said is that Microsoft wants people to share content between these 3 devices alone, and no other devices... and Microsoft is designing even stricter digital rights management to lock these three devices together.

Which is probably the most brain-dead maneuver Microsoft can make as the Janus DRM already in use on the Zune is one of the major reasons the unit has been an absolute sales disaster. It also appears that Microsoft hasn't learned the lesson taught by Amazon.com and Apple: Content free of Digital Rights Management Sells.

Consumers already are sharing DRM free content from devices such as as the Sony PSP, to the Playstation 3, to the Xbox loaded with Linux, to media players from the likes of Iriver, Cowen America, and Ipods loaded with Rockbox, with no problems.

So, maybe I'm wrong, but it sounds like Microsoft just said they want to give the consumer what the consumer can already do right now, with non-Microsoft software and non-Microsoft hardware, and then shove lots of software and hardware locks on top of that functionality to limit and remove that functionality.

Doesn't exactly sound like something that will achieve stellar sales. Rather, from the performance of the Zune as is, that sounds like a recipe to going bankrupt.




RE: Share... the same content...
By Nightskyre on 9/11/2008 12:42:00 PM , Rating: 5
Wait, what? Apple? Free of DRM?

Last I checked, media purchased through the iTunes store couldn't be played anywhere but through Apple devices that supported their DRM.


RE: Share... the same content...
By pukemon on 9/11/2008 12:57:26 PM , Rating: 2
There are some songs and albums that don't have the FairPlay DRM and are 256Kbps. If you see a + by the song in iTMS, those are the ones.


RE: Share... the same content...
By therealnickdanger on 9/11/2008 1:38:20 PM , Rating: 4
Aren't they also + $0.50?


RE: Share... the same content...
By michael2k on 9/11/2008 2:19:10 PM , Rating: 3
Nope, they are the same price.

And by luck of market dominance, they play on 90% of MP3 players; the DRM encumbered versions only play on 73%.


RE: Share... the same content...
By loggy on 9/11/2008 3:36:15 PM , Rating: 2
The same applies to any other company that, like Apple, uses monopolistic practices. If they own the 90% of the market, then their DRM'd content would play on the 90% of the market. So no problem with the Zune ecosystem, iTunes etc. On the other hand I see a big problem here, but many people (73%) don't!


RE: Share... the same content...
By michael2k on 9/11/2008 5:18:05 PM , Rating: 2
Please pray tell what monopolistic practices you are referring to?

That's like accusing Microsoft of monopolistic practices for writing software SDKs such that they only compile to Windows and therefore lock people into buying Windows computers!


RE: Share... the same content...
By peritusONE on 9/11/2008 1:54:14 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
There are some songs and albums that don't have the FairPlay DRM and are 256Kbps. If you see a + by the song in iTMS, those are the ones.


Zune Marketplace also offers plenty of non-DRM MP3 tracks for sale. It seems that everyone glosses over this fact. Even though nobody uses the Zune software, everybody is quick to denounce it.


RE: Share... the same content...
By robinthakur on 9/12/2008 5:11:40 AM , Rating: 3
I think the key point is that nobody uses it and nobody cares, hence the single digit market share...


RE: Share... the same content...
By jrbrewin on 9/12/2008 9:22:26 AM , Rating: 2
by the same token no one cares about mac os, linux, or firefox? what planet are you on?


RE: Share... the same content...
By walk2k on 9/11/2008 2:15:05 PM , Rating: 2
iTunes "Plus" songs are very very few, probably less than 5% of their total library.

Also they are still in Apple/iTunes format (AAC) NOT MP3! So they are restricted to a Apple and a very few other players.


RE: Share... the same content...
By Hare on 9/11/2008 2:25:53 PM , Rating: 2
Apple's DRM is what keeps the songs ipod only.

And AAC is not Apples own iTunes format.

It's part of Mpeg-4, developed by Fraunhofer IIS, AT&T Bell Laboratories, Dolby, Sony Corporation and Nokia + others. Pretty much industry standard and replacement for the old mp3 format.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Audio_Coding


RE: Share... the same content...
By walk2k on 9/11/2008 5:59:12 PM , Rating: 3
I know what AAC is. Fact is only Apple sells music in that format. Only iPods will play the protected variety and only a handful of more recent MP3 players even play the non-protected variety, meanwhile every single one of them will play MP3.


RE: Share... the same content...
By michael2k on 9/11/2008 2:27:08 PM , Rating: 3
At least a year ago the DRM free stuff was over 2 million tracks out of 6 million tracks, so the Plus songs were a little less than 33% of their total library.

And yes they are MP4 and not MP3; do you complain about progress in general or only when Apple spearheads it? By last count iTunes Plus was playable on over 80% of the market's devices (73% of which is iPods)


RE: Share... the same content...
By JustTom on 9/12/2008 9:01:51 PM , Rating: 2
Can you provide a citation for this? I am not disagreeing but a casual glance at the iTunes store revealed far less than 33% DRM free music.


By SiliconAddict on 9/11/2008 10:58:41 PM , Rating: 1
Hey moron. AAC is MEPG4. Its not an Apple format and CAN play on the Zune and any player willing to use STANDARDS.


RE: Share... the same content...
By zaxxon on 9/11/08, Rating: 0
By SoCalBoomer on 9/11/2008 4:44:37 PM , Rating: 2
a) bull - they're the ones who changed AAC to their DRM'd version. They have a corner on the market, drive market pricing, and can dictate as they want (and do) so if they REALLY wanted to get rid of DRM they could. Steve is on record as saying that "they'd have DRM even if the record companies didn't want it" (Boingboing) prior to their legendary flip-flop in 2007.

b) a small percentage of their content is DRM free. Try going to Amazon which is nearly ALL DRM free and higher quality, for the same price.

c) and you lose quality by doing so and it's a pain in the ass. When I buy music, I want to buy music and not have to jump through Apple's hoops to do so.

So - try what with Microsoft's solution?

I can play ANYTHING I rip with WMP on my Sansa players - rip into MP3, I can play any MS formatted music (I have both - forgot to change the defaults when ripping. . . doh- still plays though so what do I care?) and it's not DRM'd.

Oh wait - I can play ANYTHING EXCEPT music I bought via iTunes.


By SoCalBoomer on 9/11/2008 5:08:34 PM , Rating: 2
Bit more info for ya (if you're interested) from nanocr.eu

Steve Jobs has written an article titled “Thoughts on Music” in which he blames DRM entirely on the labels. Steve claims Apple wants to sell DRM-free music but the labels won’t let them. This of course flies in the face of reality. From an article in the NYTimes last month:

Among the artists who can be found at eMusic are Barenaked Ladies, Sarah McLachlan and Avril Lavigne, who are represented by Nettwerk Music Group, based in Vancouver, British Columbia. All Nettwerk releases are available at eMusic without copy protection.

But when the same tracks are sold by the iTunes Music Store, Apple insists on attaching FairPlay copy protection that limits their use to only one portable player, the iPod. Terry McBride, Nettwerk’s chief executive, said that the artists initially required Apple to use copy protection, but that this was no longer the case. At this point, he said, copy protection serves only Apple’s interests .

Josh Bernoff, a principal analyst at Forrester Research, agreed, saying copy protection “just locks people into Apple.” He said he had recently asked Apple when the company would remove copy protection and was told, “We see no need to do so.”

Apple’s statement is a detailed treatise on the subject, compared with what I received when I asked the company last week whether it would offer tracks without copy protection if the publisher did not insist on it: the Apple spokesman took my query and never got back to me.


RE: Share... the same content...
By FITCamaro on 9/11/2008 12:45:26 PM , Rating: 5
quote:
what isn't said is that Microsoft wants people to share content between these 3 devices alone, and no other devices... and Microsoft is designing even stricter digital rights management to lock these three devices together.


And what you aren't saying is that the reason this is is because the content providers force them to do it. Microsoft has no vested interest in DRM for media it doesn't own. In fact it makes their life more complicated because they have to come up with it.

As the guy in the article states, it is the content providers who want you to pay for each different format. They don't want you sharing between devices because their attitude is that you will then share it with other people.

In order to get content you have to comply with the content providers demands. Look at TV shows you download over iTunes. It still is wrapped in the iTunes DRM. Their audio has been opened up but not video. Hence why I refuse to use it. So don't act like Microsoft is the only one complying with this.


RE: Share... the same content...
By mondo1234 on 9/11/08, Rating: 0
RE: Share... the same content...
By mindless1 on 9/11/2008 5:28:41 PM , Rating: 2
You may not need a FM radio and recorder personally, but to many of us it would be ridiculous for a mid to higher end player not to have these common features that $30 to $100 players have.


RE: Share... the same content...
By michael2k on 9/12/2008 12:59:43 PM , Rating: 2
By many you must mean the minority market not buying iPods, right?

Just like many of us buying Macs or many of us buying Zunes...


RE: Share... the same content...
By Oregonian2 on 9/11/2008 12:45:29 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
It also appears that Microsoft hasn't learned the lesson taught by Amazon.com and Apple: Content free of Digital Rights Management Sells.


Um... I think Apple may have sold one or two tunes through iTunes that had DRM in them. Maybe even more than Microsoft has sold with DRM?


RE: Share... the same content...
By FITCamaro on 9/11/2008 1:22:17 PM , Rating: 2
I didn't even notice that stupid statement. Amazon and Apple did not teach anything regarding DRM free songs. They learned it. People demanded it and eventually the record companies caved and allowed the two to release DRM free tracks.

Like Microsoft, Amazon and Apple don't care about DRM. It isn't their media. They are merely wholesalers of a product. The makers of that product at first mandated DRM. They've since changed positions.


RE: Share... the same content...
By omnicronx on 9/11/2008 1:47:23 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
Like Microsoft, Amazon and Apple don't care about DRM. It isn't their media.
Thats just not true, DRM and being a closed system is one of the main reasons that Itunes remains so successful. Here are the sequence of events: buy ipod, have all your songs in itunes, ipod breaks, forced to buy another ipod to keep using your songs. I've had friends and family that have gone through 3-4 ipods, and the only reason they refuse to buy a cheaper player is because they don't want to have to re download or re-buy their songs.


RE: Share... the same content...
By Tamale on 9/11/2008 1:56:29 PM , Rating: 2
this is so true and so sad, and the main reason i'm so against the ipod.


RE: Share... the same content...
By Sundox on 9/11/2008 2:16:06 PM , Rating: 2
I agree with you guys, but there is no I-tunes store in Brazil, where I am at.
Brazil is also the country that has the most expensive I-pods on this planet, but it still is a big success.
Fact is that apple is apple and people all over the world fall into that trap.


RE: Share... the same content...
By walk2k on 9/11/2008 2:19:35 PM , Rating: 2
To be fair, you don't have to buy music from Apple, all iPods play MP3 music from any source, and iTunes itself will happily rip your CDs to MP3 with no DRM.

I like my iPod ok, but would never in a million years buy music in Apple-only format.


RE: Share... the same content...
By Xavitar on 9/13/2008 5:08:16 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
To be fair, you don't have to buy music from Apple, all iPods play MP3 music from any source, and iTunes itself will happily rip your CDs to MP3 with no DRM. I like my iPod ok, but would never in a million years buy music in Apple-only format.

Right, but Apple relies on hooking people in to the store before they know better. Once someone is significantly invested in a particular platform, it becomes more cost effective to replace a single failed component, like an iPod, then to completely reinvest in a new platform.

In this manner, DRM is very much in favor of the platform providers such as Apple, Microsoft, etc. Microsoft would love to have people locked into their Zune/Xbox/MediaCenter platform just like Apple has seen a lot of repeat hardware business because of their DRM software. As consumers, we have a certain amount of leverage here... Simply refuse to purchase DRM media or devices that require it.


RE: Share... the same content...
By zaxxon on 9/11/2008 3:01:44 PM , Rating: 1
the ipod plays ANY mp3 or AAC content, and from statistics we learned that 80-90% of music on iPods was NOT bought on iTunes. The iTS is only the coating to sell a few more iPods, not to lock into the player. As I've stated previously, any music bought in iTS can be burned to audioCDs and re-imported into ANY music manager.

DRM does not sell products, GOOD products sell products!


By robinthakur on 9/12/2008 5:40:12 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Thats just not true, DRM and being a closed system is one of the main reasons that Itunes remains so successful.


You are correct in saying this, and the reason its successful is because virtually everyone uses iPod versus another no-name DAP. The DRM does not annoy for this very reason. The simplicity with which iTunes + iPod integrate and operate are also key to its success, you shouldn't so easily discount that. If it weren't people wouldn't use it. Part of the reason that Itunes initially got so much content (thus making it attractive to end-users versus competing services which only offer certain labels) was the fact that content providers felt happy selling through iTunes knowing their music couldn't be freely re-distributed.

quote:
Here are the sequence of events: buy ipod, have all your songs in itunes, ipod breaks, forced to buy another ipod to keep using your songs


Hmmm, This sounds like anti-apple FUD to me as I've owned 9 iPods/iPhones and never had one break on me. Now, I'm not saying that they don't break, but I generally prefer experiential opinions over anecdotal ones. I don't chuck them around or treat them like ruggedized devices and I charge them when they need it. I buy another iPod when I feel like it, not because it breaks, and I'm guessing that people mainly skip a couple of generations then buy when any new features that justify an upgrade present themselves.


RE: Share... the same content...
By mindless1 on 9/11/2008 5:33:21 PM , Rating: 2
Microsoft does care about DRM. If they did not, they wouldn't develop it. You argued that MS needs content - WRONG. MS doesn't need content, the consumer does. Does MS need to provide a way for the consumer to have DRM'd content? No. Plenty of MP3 players sell that are loaded with non-protected content, including the Sansas that outsell MS's.

Why does MS want DRM? They want to build in yet another feature that non-windows users are locked out of. They want technology after technology that makes windows look more appealing. SOme of these techs end up on other OS, but enough of them don't to make Windows the clear choice from a usability perspective.


RE: Share... the same content...
By Oregonian2 on 9/11/2008 12:46:19 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Doesn't exactly sound like something that will achieve stellar sales. Rather, from the performance of the Zune as is, that sounds like a recipe to going bankrupt.


Could be, but I don't see Microsoft going bankrupt real soon.


RE: Share... the same content...
By SunAngel on 9/11/08, Rating: -1
RE: Share... the same content...
RE: Share... the same content...
By SunAngel on 9/11/08, Rating: 0
RE: Share... the same content...
By omnicronx on 9/11/2008 1:33:40 PM , Rating: 4
When you have an attach rate of 9:1 for games and you can sell accessories for 5x their normal value, you can give away your console for free and still make money =P

p.s Microsoft has bigger cash reserve (around 50 billion, non stock cash) than many small countries. They could go for a loss of 2 billion dollars for 25 years and still stay out of the red.


RE: Share... the same content...
By SunAngel on 9/11/08, Rating: 0
RE: Share... the same content...
By SuperJesus on 9/11/2008 2:20:24 PM , Rating: 3
You are so wrong, on sooo many levels.
You can't just reduce the amount of inflation like that. You have to reduce it 5% each year.
You also seem to assume that MS will not make any interest on this 50 billion. MS averages over 8% interest a year.
You also seem to assume that MS will still be losing money on consoles long after their launch which is not true.
Even these points are over simplifications. End result is that in order for MS to ever run out of money they would have to basically give it all away or a war.


By robinthakur on 9/12/2008 6:32:21 AM , Rating: 2
Perhaps if they can afford a war they should declare war on Apple then...I can imagine a gurning snarling Balmer now declaring "You are either with us or you are with the Apple-ists" "Fight the Apple of Evil, yyeeeehaaaaw"

Regardless of the economics, if MS does keep wasting money on rubbish ad campaigns, failed music player services and games consoles which don't make any money and positively eat money through technical design faults, combine this with weak Vista and Office 2007 sales and you have a problem in the long term if this trend continues. Remember how many staff they have and how costly their products are to develop. Also note how big of a percentage of their recent failed bid for Yahoo was to be drawn from financed debt rather than from cash and you will start to question whether things are indeed that rosy. The IT business is very fluid and changing all the time, Microsoft's size makes adapting to changes in the market a brute force exercise rather than a graceful natural one...not to mention their leadership problem once Balmer leaves. Oh and as far as I know MS are still losing money on the Xbox, 3 years after launch, a situation exacerbated by the recent price drops, that $1billion hit they took and losing the lead to Nintendo.


RE: Share... the same content...
By FITCamaro on 9/11/2008 2:43:42 PM , Rating: 2
You seem to be forgetting the fact that the Xbox is not Microsoft's only product. It's entertainment division is just one small part of the company. It lost money on the entertainment division for 6-7 years and still made huge profits. I'm not even sure if they'll make a profit on it this year. Microsoft's cash cows are Windows, Server, and Office. The Xbox was something they wanted to do because they could. It helped them basically own the entire home, not just the computer.

They want you talking on a phone running Microsoft software, using an MP3 player made by Microsoft, playing games on a console made by Microsoft, downloading video from a Microsoft run service, and using a computer running Windows. They've got 2 of the 4 nailed. And the Xbox is only going to get better with the Netflix integration.


By robinthakur on 9/12/2008 6:18:50 AM , Rating: 1
Are you saying this would be a good vision of the future? A microsoft only home? Even when you visit MS, their constant exclusive use of MS technology, be it live search or office communication server to Hyperviser and SharePoint makes it feel slightly like a high tech cult or Skynet to anyone not already assimilated fully into the machine.

Microsoft can only afford to support their lost-leaders in its range such as the Xbox360 (with its $1bn RROD write down) and the Zune which I'm sure they'd rather forget while the profitable divisions are doing well. While even the dodgy, overheating Xbox is gaining a foothold underneath Nintendo's dominance, the Zune has just been a consummate failure from day 1, though on the positive side at least its cheaper to feed than the xBox division. If Office starts to wobble (its possible) or Vista/2k8 fails to sell well (ahem) you will see the divisions which fail to bring in a revenue begin to shrink. MS's share-price reflects this perceived weakness here despite the fact that *at the moment* they are firmly in the driving seat. MS is a publicly owned company and if at some point this concept that if you own the entire home, you'll automatically derive revenue from this is proven to not be the case, there will be some explaining to do...Basically, its far less embarassing to merge the Zune system into their other products (much as Nokia did with N-Gage) than to abandon it totally, as I'm sure they'd like to.

Amusingly I went to an MS technical event recently in their London base where they were fielding Q&A's and lobbing out prizes for participation. When one particular guy was presented with a prize, being a Zune, he politely declined it saying that he already had an iPod to amused gaffaws in the audience. I was naturally shocked that he didn't just ebay it, but the look on the MS person's face was a classic mix of shock/confusion/embarassment that somebody genuinely didn't want their technology even if it were free, and not likely to be forgotten.


RE: Share... the same content...
By Oregonian2 on 9/11/2008 6:21:21 PM , Rating: 2
Look here:

http://www.microsoft.com/msft/earnings/FY08/earn_r...

Their operating income for fiscal 2008 (which ended a couple months ago) was more than $22 Billion on sales of over $60 billion.

I wish my household were going so bankrupt!


RE: Share... the same content...
By Oregonian2 on 9/11/2008 6:25:08 PM , Rating: 2
P.S. - And for sake of comparison, the big oil companies have been vilified and cursed and made into the devil incarnate for having record profits that were 8 percent of revenue.


RE: Share... the same content...
By Oregonian2 on 9/11/2008 6:26:35 PM , Rating: 2
I get point-ding'ed for providing hard numbers to work with? Interesting group.


RE: Share... the same content...
By althaz on 9/11/2008 10:31:43 PM , Rating: 1
Microsoft are filthy rich, so it would take ages, besides that they make money on the games and make plenty on the accessories. The first XBox was not profitable (nor was it really intended to be) but the 360 has made money for Microsoft AND grown market share.

Also Microsoft has been making a small profit on the XBox 360 since roughly six months after its release. The original XBox was sold a long way below cost for its entire lifespan, the 360 only for a short while.


RE: Share... the same content...
By omnicronx on 9/11/2008 1:28:43 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
as the Janus DRM already in use on the Zune is one of the major reasons the unit has been an absolute sales disaster.
So what are you here to complain about DRM, or Microsoft in general? The ipod is the best selling mp3 player by far, is very very successful, and employs DRM that is far worse than that of Microsoft. Your statement is not only incorrect, but as shown by the success of the ipod, it has nothing to do with its poor sales. Terrible marketing, terrible pricing, and the fact that the zune is not as aesthetically pleasing are the reasons for its terrible sales, not DRM.

I chose the zune just because it was much easier to have to keep my songs DRM free. Sure the ipod is a better piece of hardware, but I like some of the features the Zune has, (I enjoy the ability to wirelessly sync my podcasts from my car every morning). Overall though, the Ipod is just a better product plain and simple for most people. People normally don't choose their player because of its DRM limitations, I will even go out on a limb and say that 75% of ipod users don't even know what DRM is.. I may, you may, but most people don't.


RE: Share... the same content...
By mindless1 on 9/11/2008 5:37:47 PM , Rating: 2
but the iPod did well DESPITE that DRM. For MS to now try and compete against the iPlayers they have to come up with something better to lure people away. They're thinking interoperability with DRM devices is the answer but most of the comments from MP3 player owners and prospective buyers seems to place that near the bottom of a long list.


RE: Share... the same content...
By peritusONE on 9/11/2008 1:52:12 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Which is probably the most brain-dead maneuver Microsoft can make as the Janus DRM already in use on the Zune is one of the major reasons the unit has been an absolute sales disaster.


Care to elaborate? You can't just make a statement and expect us to take your word on it. I'm sure this "Janus" DRM is no worse than any other DRM out there....I mean, they all restrict your play rights.

iTunes and the Zune Marketplace really aren't all that different. Both offer all songs under a DRM format, and both offer a myriad of songs in MP3 format. You make it sound as if the Zune Marketplace doesn't offer MP3 at all and only DRM.


By encryptkeeper on 9/11/2008 3:25:44 PM , Rating: 2
Hey guys they ARE making a Zune Phone. Looks like the commercial was leaked online some time ago. Check it out

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRKIDdIaFyE


RE: Share... the same content...
By jrbrewin on 9/12/2008 9:30:48 AM , Rating: 2
media sharing is already possible between zune, pc, and xbox, and oddly it's DRM free, so i'm not sure what exactly you're trying to spout here, but it was wrong.

that's not to say that there isn't DRM in those products, but whereever there is DRM it is because the content providers insist on it. Microsoft would rather not encase music shared between zune devices (as in, sent from one device to another, on a adhoc basis) in DRM, but you think the content owners (record labels) would permit that? I think not. The same can be said for video content bought on the store.

"Doesn't exactly sound like something that will achieve stellar sales."

microsoft have already exceeded targets for zune and xbox sales. i don't think mediaroom has really taken off as they expected, but this media sharing functionality isn't also going to be a game-changer in terms of mediaroom sales.

it really irks me to see the blatant mocking of the zune platform from people that have never even used it, and never will. Now, for me, i prefer to base my opinions on my own experiences. I've used iTunes, and other web based music stores. I've used a number of ipods generations from generation1, through to the latest nanos and iphones (up until this week when the new ones came out). Currently i'm using a zune80, the zune software.. the experience is by far much smoother, much more consistent, and generally much nicer than anything apple are doing at the moment.

you only have to look at the interface and formfactor changes on the latest nanos to see what apple thinks is the better platform, as it is blatantly stealing its latest line of enhancements cues from microsoft. Ironic then that apple's diehard fans are the first to sling mud at the zune camp.


Sticking around....
By JasonMick (blog) on 9/11/2008 12:41:56 PM , Rating: 2
Seriously, the only reason Apple's iPods have any real competitors is because they have illogically refused to incorporate standard features like FM tuners, recording, and additional formats into their players. No matter how they justify this, the fact is any expenses this might incur would be more than offset by the rise in revenue and the creation of essentially a monopoly if they don't have one already.

It's either a) they're intentionally holding themselves back to prevent antitrust judgements or b) they're too stubborn to change. I'm guessing its b.

I have to admit, the new 120 GB Zune would probably be my player of choice now, if I was buying a new one. The 160 GB iPod Classic I'm currently using has a bit more memory, but I never watch TV on it so I only need about 100 GB for my just-ever-so-slightly massive music collection. If I was rebuying, the larger screen and greater formats would be a deal breaker, despite the fact that the Classic purportedly gets a few more hours of battery life.

When my iPod is crapped out, I'm excited for the next gen, whether it be a more full featured Apple, or a scrappy competitor like Zune.




RE: Sticking around....
By nosfe on 9/11/2008 12:45:47 PM , Rating: 3
or c)they don't want you to listen to radio because they want you to buy their songs in their format hence why they also don't allow other formats


RE: Sticking around....
By JasonMick (blog) on 9/11/2008 12:49:18 PM , Rating: 2
Good point, but that still falls under the "revenue loss" category, which seems likely to be more than offset by a broader user base.

I think its more either arrogance or legal fears more than greed.

You never know though...


RE: Sticking around....
By Oregonian2 on 9/11/2008 12:56:36 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Seriously, the only reason Apple's iPods have any real competitors is because they have illogically refused to incorporate standard features like FM tuners, recording, and additional formats into their players.


I partially agree, but not totally. My previous device was a 5th generation "video iPod", which I liked a lot, but it had to be replaced (it "disappeared"). The touch was a close competitor, but I went with an Archos 605 wifi unit instead. Much higher res and larger screen, many more codecs, etc (and strangely enough the combination of buttons and somewhat redundant touch screen is very nice to use once used to it). The biggie thing for the iPod was the UI which is awesome to use and behold. However, one of the enablers for that simple instinctive UI is the simplicity of the iPod's capabilities. If it had the long list of features that other units have it would clutter the UI and tarnish their big advantage. Having the unit minimalistic in terms of features is almost a benefit to their sales. This isn't a strong argument for what they do, but I think it's a contributor to their design decisions.


RE: Sticking around....
By HeavyB on 9/11/2008 1:33:48 PM , Rating: 3
I have both an iphone and a Zune 80G, and the capacity difference notwithstanding, the Zune has been getting much more of my attention lately than the iphone. I just signed up for the Zune music service (buffet style) and have been very pleased with its offerings, especially considering my unique musical tastes. With the added functionality of the next update (including the added wireless Marketplace feature), I think the Zune development team is heading in the right direction.


RE: Sticking around....
By MrPickins on 9/11/2008 4:14:05 PM , Rating: 2
What about the people (like me) who just want a simple, cost effective player?

Of course, we're not buying Apple products anyway...


RE: Sticking around....
By mindless1 on 9/11/2008 5:44:47 PM , Rating: 2
Those people are who made the Sansas the 2nd most popular.


Zune's futurre is...
By BladeVenom on 9/11/08, Rating: 0
RE: Zune's futurre is...
By Smilin on 9/11/2008 12:55:10 PM , Rating: 2
..Interesting. Most of the music I buy on Zune is DRM free. You've been brainwashed by Jobs methinks.


RE: Zune's futurre is...
By mondo1234 on 9/11/2008 1:27:57 PM , Rating: 2
You mean he has leaned from history. MS did threaten to shut down servers with Plays for Sure. Thats the main reason I wont go to MS music devices.


RE: Zune's futurre is...
By BladeVenom on 9/11/2008 5:18:52 PM , Rating: 2
Original intent to shut them down:
http://www.dailytech.com/MSN+Music+Authentication+...

After bad publicity, agreed to leave the open a little longer:
http://www.dailytech.com/MSN+Music+Agrees+to+Keep+...


RE: Zune's futurre is...
By kelmon on 9/12/2008 3:21:56 AM , Rating: 2
Indeed, this is what really (or should) puts anyone off buying anything protected by Microsoft's DRM. Microsoft's "answer" here is to keep their servers running a bit longer, which is a wonderful demonstration of "putting off until tomorrow what they could do today". Yahoo!, on the other hand, did the decent thing and reimbursed customers or provided alternative versions of the music that they had downloaded. I don't understand why Microsoft didn't do this immediately and why they have not done it now. For that reason I would be wary of them.


RE: Zune's futurre is...
By robinthakur on 9/12/2008 5:47:39 AM , Rating: 2
Oh come off it Kelmon, if iPod, iTunes were struggling like (Frank Herbert's) 'Zune' or 'plays for sure' (IRRRROOOOONNNYY) the servers would also be in danger of being shut down as they are uneconomical to maintain. This is why, despite the other objections in theory to iTunes which I might have, they aren't likely to shut down.

Its the risk you run with all DRM's music though, and one of the only big negatives about the digital versus physical music era. I think that Steve Job's understands the media industry much better than Microsoft do for some reason, his connections with Pixar notwithstanding and has outplayed them in this arena to date.


My Zune continues to increase in value
By gbed on 9/11/2008 4:00:53 PM , Rating: 3
I have one of the original 30gb chocolate zunes. And you know what, Microsoft added functionality to it when they came out with their new players.

So, Microsoft released new Zunes, with some cool new features, then instead of making all of their customers rush out and buy new hardware to get the new features, they rolled that feature pack out to every owner.

Now, again Microsoft is adding new features and I'm still using my original Zune.

Gotta give Microsoft props for taking care of their installed base, and not milking them!

So, thanks for the FREE updates Microsoft, and keep them coming.

The Zune team continues to innovate.




Dominant
By Carl B on 9/11/2008 4:07:43 PM , Rating: 1
I don't want to be a grammar nazi, but please god, the first sentence... dominate instead of dominant . Isn't it bad enough forums being the source of degeneration for the English language without these things spreading into articles?




RE: Dominant
By mindless1 on 9/11/2008 5:50:27 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I don't want to be a grammar nazi


Then don't.


Zune...
By lsman on 9/11/2008 4:15:02 PM , Rating: 2
How about...
1. support users that has XP prof x64
2. support language includes Asian characters (a simple hack in older software can do... how hard this can be....)




To sell more Zunes...
By kmmatney on 9/11/2008 11:42:47 PM , Rating: 2
I would consider buying a flash Zune if they just upped the specs a bit. It seems like they are always just copying Apple with the capacities. Fash is dirt cheap, there is no reason they can't come out with at least a 16 GB flash-based player for less than $200.




Surely you mean..
By PaxtonFettel on 9/12/2008 3:55:31 AM , Rating: 2
Stay Zuned.

Shame on you DT for missing a perfectly good punning opportunity.




Dear Joe..
By SiliconAddict on 9/11/2008 10:56:00 PM , Rating: 1
GIVE ME A REAL RATING SYSTEM!

Heart/Broken heart is such a damn joke it borders on the retarded. Clue to the clueless: poeple do have favorite tracks. People have tracks they generally life. People have tracks they think is meh, but keep them for their friends who like them. Then people have tracks they don't like or are corrupt, or need attention with metadata or a number of other reasons to mark it as 1 star.

This heart/no heart shit is right up there with not having the X in windows mobile no close the damn app, and having a single button on a mouse. All worth considering, but at the end of the day all retarded ideas.




"There is a single light of science, and to brighten it anywhere is to brighten it everywhere." -- Isaac Asimov














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