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Microsoft's Peter Moore tells customers to look past broken consoles and focus on good service

Despite customer complaints of a greater-than-usual percentage of Xbox 360 consoles breaking down, Microsoft still maintains that its system’s failure rate is still within an acceptable range. In a Mercury News blog interview with Peter Moore, VP of Microsoft’s entertainment division, a reader who had experienced two defective Xbox 360 consoles within seven months requested a straight answer on the apparent issue of hardware quality. The reader suggested that the failure rate is perhaps two or three times greater than the three to five percent that Microsoft claims.

Moore responded, “I can’t comment on failure rates, because it’s just not something  – it’s a moving target. What this consumer should worry about is the way that we’ve treated him. Y’know, things break, and if we’ve treated him well and fixed his problem, that’s something that we’re focused on right now. I’m not going to comment on individual failure rates because I’m shipping in 36 countries and it’s a complex business.”

The issue of failing Xbox 360 consoles is an ongoing one. In response to an overwhelming defect rate of launch consoles, Microsoft agreed to repair all machines manufactured in 2005 free of charge, and issue a refund for those who already paid for repairs of launch units up until January 1, 2006.

“We’ve received a few isolated reports of consoles not working as expected,” Microsoft previously stated in reference to launch consoles. “The call rate is well below what you’d expect for a consumer electronics product of this complexity. As a percentage of the total number of Xbox 360 systems already in the field, these calls represent a very small fraction.”

In late 2006, Microsoft boosted the warranty of all Xbox 360 consoles to one year, up from the previous 90-days. Then in April 2007, Microsoft further enhanced its warranty services by reinstating free two-way shipping for console replacements, as well as giving paid-repair consoles a fresh one-year warranty. For gamers who are out of warranty, however, a replacement or repair will cost Xbox 360 customers $140 – a price that many gamers are not afraid to express much displeasure about.

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Come on.......
By spartan014 on 5/8/2007 10:45:14 PM , Rating: 5
“We’ve received a few isolated reports of consoles not working as expected,” Microsoft previously stated in reference to launch consoles.

Then why not give us the figures? This ain't about national security..




RE: Come on.......
By VIAN on 5/8/2007 10:49:21 PM , Rating: 3
He's obviously very worried about this. This is much bigger than expected as you can see when he BS's about how it is a very small percentage considering the complexity of the system. He's definitely not going to admit that there is a serious flaw or else everyone is going to want an exchange.

Hey. At least he isn't saying that the lights are supposed to go red after a specific period of time. :-)


RE: Come on.......
By VIAN on 5/8/2007 10:54:20 PM , Rating: 1
I don't know what I'd do if my 360 broke. The other day I was playing PGR3 and artifacts would flash every once in a while that meant the graphics memory was being pushed a little too much. And it was cool in my room. I've never experienced it before but it was scary.

I can't decide whether I'd buy a new 360, or just move to another console. Either way it would suck.


RE: Come on.......
By kilkennycat on 5/9/2007 12:41:44 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
The other day I was playing PGR3 and artifacts would flash every once in a while that meant the graphics memory was being pushed a little too much. And it was cool in my room. I've never experienced it before but it was scary.


Highly likely that your GPU and/or CPU heat-sinks are becoming clogged with lint and starting to overheat.. Just open up the Xbox360 and clean them out. Oh, I forgot, that needs special tools and breaks the warranty-seal..... Not designed to be user-serviceable. No doubt due to M$$'s paranoia about hacking the Xbox360. No filter, 2 fans pushing dust and crud will, in time, guarantee overheat failure, the red ring of death. Plus the clever hardware designers of the Xbox360 placed both of these heatsinks in immediate proximity to the DVD-drive, which being a critical electro-mechanical component does not like excessive heat at all. The designers of the Xbox360 circuit-board layout apparently were total novices in the area of high-reliability design. I have no details of the layout of the Xbox360 Elite, thus no idea whether these particular thermal issues have been addressed. The move to 65nm for the GPU and CPU ( Fall 2007 ?) will help a lot due to the heat-reduction, but the user-inaccessibility of the internal heat-sinks for periodic thorough cleaning will still be a long-term reliability concern.


RE: Come on.......
By marvdmartian on 5/9/2007 10:32:40 AM , Rating: 2
Well, there ya go. You just figured out how to make your first million. Design and market stick-on air filters, that a person can put on the air intakes for the xbox, that can be easily replaced/cleaned, and will extend the life of their precious game system. Put them on the market at ~$10 to $15 a set, and you'll be a millionaire, practically overnight!

Of course, when that happens, I'll expect you to kick back 10% of your earnings, for my coming up with the idea! ;)


RE: Come on.......
By techfuzz on 5/9/2007 1:18:07 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Design and market stick-on air filters

Dryer sheet + scotch tape = Done

Please hand me my millions now :)


RE: Come on.......
By HVAC on 5/9/2007 6:52:12 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Dryer sheet + scotch tape = Done


Congratulations....you have just managed to coat the insides of the 360 with a chemical designed to cause clothing to retain a small amount of moisture and possibly some perfume.

If you have ever seen what dryer sheet residue does to dryer filters over time, then you know that it will make any lint or dust that travels through the dryer sheet to stick mercilessly to whatever it contacts.

Perhaps you simply meant to recommend a densely packed open cell foam sheet and scotch tape?


RE: Come on.......
By mindless1 on 5/10/2007 11:20:22 PM , Rating: 2
Perhaps you're overstating things and the drying sheet or just about anything will be fine.


RE: Come on.......
By zsouthboy on 5/9/2007 10:52:18 AM , Rating: 3
Dude, it's a console.

And remember the intelligence of the average person.

Telling people it's okay to open it and remove dust would end up with things like, IDK, half sawed off video cards stuffed into heatsinks.


RE: Come on.......
By LatinMessiah on 5/9/2007 1:14:10 PM , Rating: 2
That's why I placed my 360 in a vacuum; free of dust and other airborne clog promoting particles.


RE: Come on.......
By HVAC on 5/9/2007 6:53:41 PM , Rating: 2
So, how is the radiant-cooling-only environment treating the box?


RE: Come on.......
By Devenish on 5/9/2007 1:52:32 AM , Rating: 2
I enjoy the 360 system very much and 1 out of 5 other people I know have had to replace their system. Only once has it acted strange over a year ago, but with a restart everything has been fine. If my 360 gave me the ROD in less then 3 years of ownership I wouldn’t purchase another, but move on to a competitor, and wait for a Class Action.


RE: Come on.......
By Samus on 5/9/2007 8:24:33 AM , Rating: 2
me and all my friends have had 360's since launch and we beat the hell outa them


RE: Come on.......
By encryptkeeper on 5/9/2007 10:48:34 AM , Rating: 3
You're supposed to PLAY the 360, not beat it.

Seriously, when Microsoft execs get blindsided with apparently real questions, this is how they react?

Moore responded, “I can’t comment on failure rates, because it’s just not something – it’s a moving target. What this consumer should worry about is the way that we’ve treated him. Y’know, things break...

So Moore just said, "Shit breaks, deal with it". And I'll give it to him he really tries to talk about how they handle repairs (which aren't 100 percent, my brother in law has had 4 or 5 360's so far because the power brick was bad and Microsoft refused to replace it until the very end) but when he does he just rambles. The best response would have been to say they are committed to quality units, games and the best technology blah blah blah and then start talking about Vista like everyone else at Microsoft does. These guys are usually completely filled with shit and BS answers for everything. I wonder why Moore had such troubles with this one?


RE: Come on.......
By LatinMessiah on 5/9/2007 1:15:52 PM , Rating: 2
If that's true, then what's you and your friend's gamer scores?


RE: Come on.......
By d0gb0y on 5/9/2007 11:29:45 AM , Rating: 3
I unfortunately was recently faced with the said scenario. I first thought "Screw MS for doing this to me!" So I bought a Wii. Games are too kiddie and the motion sensitive controller is too insensitive (I liken it to the difference between a mice and keyboard to a controller with analog sticks). I did enjoy Paper Mario and Zelda, but the rest was junk.

I then thought about buying a PS3, but did not read one review of a game worth spending over $600 (tax and the price of the game).

I missed the 360 games and then thought of buying the Elite, but spending $400 to play games I already own...

So I spent the $140. Cheapest option in my opinion. I'm glad MS has it available.

I think it sucks that MY 360 broke, but I did enjoy it over a year and if it did break within that year it would have been free (kinda wish it broke 4 months ago).


RE: Come on.......
By mars777 on 5/10/2007 1:15:40 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
So I spent the $140. Cheapest option in my opinion. I'm glad MS has it available.


Microsoft is glad too, they will make 140$ per year on you and you will be glad :)


RE: Come on.......
By OblivionMage on 5/9/2007 3:46:43 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I don't know what I'd do if my 360 broke. The other day I was playing PGR3 and artifacts would flash every once in a while that meant the graphics memory was being pushed a little too much. And it was cool in my room. I've never experienced it before but it was scary.

You would get a new one from Microsoft for free if your old one broke...


RE: Come on.......
By dajeepster on 5/8/2007 11:03:29 PM , Rating: 5
it is not a national security, but it is considered a trade secret. And you do not want the competition knowing your trade secret. Sony would do the exact same thing.

If they knew each other's secrets it would definately make for some very interesting commercials on TV where they'll really start bashing each other.


RE: Come on.......
By Proteusza on 5/9/2007 4:43:22 AM , Rating: 1
Dude the number of hardware failures is hardly a trade secret. Of course, it is something Sony would love to get their hands on, but then again they dont need to - everyone already knows that XBox's arent reliable, the damage has been done due to bad design, and MS is doing their best to save face.


RE: Come on.......
By spartan014 on 5/8/2007 11:11:55 PM , Rating: 4
From
http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=7173

" Bach details that the Xbox hardware itself is something
that may never end up being profitable..."

Obviously, one reason could be this. Replacement of faulty
units. We won't know untill they are ready to publish the
numbers.


RE: Come on.......
By BoardkilL on 5/9/2007 7:43:04 AM , Rating: 2
Indeed.

I got my 360 in august last year, and in march it died on me. Called the support centre, and within two days DHL was at my door with an empty return box. According to the shipment papers that came with the box, it cost Microsoft something like 60 euros to send me that empty box (60 euros equals about 80 USD).

The papers also stated that sending it back would cost Microsoft something like 150 Euros, or more than 200 USD. Shipping it back to me cost about the same. That means that Microsoft had to spend close to 500 dollars just to have the console shipped back and forth. That's pretty much what I paid for the console in the first place (paid 600 aussie dollars.)

No wonder they're losing money. But service is great. Very friendly support staff and repairs were done fairly quickly too. And even though I bought my 360 in Australia, and then moved to Europe, they still fixed it for free.

Only bad thing is they put in a new DVD-player, a region 2 instead of region 4 player, and the new one is extremely noisy compared to my old one. Oh. kinda bad that it crashed in the first place too. ;)


RE: Come on.......
By Proteusza on 5/9/2007 9:39:51 AM , Rating: 2
Very impressive that they fixed it despite being out of warranty.

I bought a Sony Ericsson K750i in Belgium a few years ago, and it malfunctioned shortly after I returned to South Africa (screen problems, commonly experienced on those models).

To cut a long story short, Sony Ericsson South Africa said they lacked the software necessary to repair my phone, and couldnt replace it as the warranty wasnt valid outside of Europe.

So I shipped it back to Europe at my own expense so that a friend could replace it (it was stolen by the South African postal service en route, yet another great source of national pride).

I bought a new one, and had a great laugh, because when I opened the box of the new K750i, there was a warranty card. It said, "This warranty is only valid in the EU." So the only valid warranty on the phone is provided by the telecommunications provider, who I bought it through.

Moral of the story: Dont buy expense electronic things from overseas, if they break (and they probably will) you are screwed.

Moral 2: Gadgets are great until they break, but then you have to deal with Customer Disservice, which as a rule is unhelpful, ill-equipped and ill-trained. maybe except for MS customer service, it seems.

<end long off topic story>


RE: Come on.......
By Proteusza on 5/9/2007 9:40:35 AM , Rating: 2
err out of warranty meaning different country/region.


RE: Come on.......
By bjtag on 5/8/2007 11:29:16 PM , Rating: 2
I Have a Day ONE Launch Console and its running just as good as Day ONE!!!

IT's played 7 days a week by me and my kids!
And it gets left on sometimes 24/7!

Have 14 friends that have one and only one have had any trouble!
Lots of customers I have sold or recommended one to and never any returns or problems!
Have friend works BestBuy and people return 10 times more PS3's than any 360's or Wii's

Not bad fail rate for me!


RE: Come on.......
By Ralph The Magician on 5/9/07, Rating: 0
RE: Come on.......
By Ralph The Magician on 5/9/2007 1:37:41 AM , Rating: 3
Also, what I find interesting is that some people report multiple failures. How true that actually is can't be known, but if people actually are having 3 and 4 failures in a row I would guess it's actually partially their fault. Perhaps the Xbox 360 is very voltage sensitive, due to poor PSU rails. I wonder if any 360s could be "fixed" simply by using a different PSU.

Many people also report that the get the RRoD, restart, and everything works. This would also lead one to believe it's a PSU failure.

I wonder.


RE: Come on.......
By edpsx on 5/9/07, Rating: 0
RE: Come on.......
By Legolias24 on 5/9/2007 2:41:39 PM , Rating: 2
I think you are almost right Edpsx, but I did hear of a bad batch of PS3s moving through the inventories EB Games stores in Canada only. It's fairly isolated, and I think the problems were just a bad drive making a helluvalot of noise...that's about it.

Still, I have not heard of any PS3s crashing and requiring a warranty repair. (the Best Buy guy nearly sold me on the extended warranty when I bought my PS3...but then I realized that there hasn't been any major problems thus far so I was said no thanks!)


RE: Come on.......
By edpsx on 5/9/2007 3:31:12 PM , Rating: 2
Yeah it was some sort of humming noise coming from the fan I believe and Sony owned up to it being a bad batch of fans. Compared to the 360 DVD Drive it was still on the quiet end of things.


RE: Come on.......
By Scrogneugneu on 5/9/2007 11:42:17 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
There have been 0, thats right count em, 0 reasons for returning PS3's so far.


Probably because nobody really bothered to buy them.


...
By NuclearDelta on 5/8/2007 11:16:53 PM , Rating: 5
Thus far, I have had one 360 fail on me was was greeted by good service and replacement...But I have issues with this stance.

From my readings and adventures, there is speculation that many of the 3-red-ring issues are caused between a combination of excessive heat due to a minimalist and noisy cooling solution, stiffer,lead-free, ROHS BGA packaging, and the mechanical strain resulting from the X-Bracket heatsink retention...compounded further by the expansion/contraction of the PCB as the system is used day-to-day.

It is like a dysfunctional symphony, and thus far Microsoft attempt at fixing this dysfunction appears to be to tossing a few more kazoo-ists and wood-block-ists into the orchestra pit by way of epoxying the fiberglass GPU/CPU packages onto the 360 elite boards.(Note: Still 3-ring issues reported with the 360 elite)

Is it really more expensive to keep fixing/replacing/shipping Xbox360 consoles and spending additional resources on free support instead of re-engineering the heatsink and its mounting solution to actual fix the problem? From what I have heard, some of the other countries are not getting the support the BIG THREE (US, Europe,Japan) with issues.

Is it their pride to admit a problem and repair it? Are they hoping that 65nm die shrink will fix it with a wave of the semiconductor fairy's lithography-wand? Someone tell me, because thinking about cooperate decisions and "solutions" requires ,at minimum, three aspirin to generate a rough(very) explanation.

Thanks for the previous support on my console peter, I do appreciate it sincerely. Tell me one thing though, will you be available, free of charge, if/when this one breaks next year?




RE: ...
By bjtag on 5/8/2007 11:39:04 PM , Rating: 2
Wonder if people having problems are moving it around to much
or standup mounting is problem

Mine never gets moved it lays flat(level)
and blow out the dust every 6 months

Have had ring of death light up on 3 consoles
turn off and back on FINE!!! Still going


RE: ...
By dome1234 on 5/9/2007 2:09:33 AM , Rating: 2
As fas as standing up, the risks are scratched discs from what i read. And you absolutely will scratch your beloved game disc if you move the console while there's a disc inside or switching the position from horizontal to vertical and vice versa while the "vacuumcleaner" is spinning.


RE: ...
By MGSsancho on 5/9/2007 5:15:28 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
From my readings and adventures, there is speculation that many of the 3-red-ring issues are caused between a combination of excessive heat due to a minimalist and noisy cooling solution, stiffer,lead-free, ROHS BGA packaging, and the mechanical strain resulting from the X-Bracket heatsink retention...compounded further by the expansion/contraction of the PCB as the system is used day-to-day.

it has nothing to do with the board being RoHS. Since lead is not used any ware int he manufacturing process, the heat required to melt the metals the use (mostly tin) require higher temperatures. from 350 to over 480 degrees. circuit manufactures have been working on RoHS designs since 1995. and have perfected it in about 2002. They had to change most of the materials to withstand being covered/dipped/dripped with hot metals. Secondly, circuit boards are designed and tested to withstand temps of 125 degrees Celsius. You are correct then the case and mobo expand at different rates, but at 50c, there isn't as much expansion as you think. Also remember when you built your own pc, the holes for the case screws in the mobo were rather larger than the screw shaft? That was for expansion. And if anyone tries the mention that the 3.2GHz is stressing the copper wires and the resins keep this in mind, the V.T. formula used in the resin made in 1999. took about 8 years to make too. it can withstand 10Ghz. I don't remembered what V.T. translates to. Its trademarked. And no a 8 layer board is not high tech. modern boards are very low tech. well at least in consumer electronics. 45 layers and thousands of feet of traces in circuit bards are being made in military applications as well as telecoms. warning, I am an affiliate of http://www.ddiglobal.com/
anyways enough ranting. I think the problem is with the PSU not being flexible and dust clogging the 360s cooling system. this may be heat sings, grills, fans, anything. someone should try to use like a monster power filter used for audio equipment or something comparable and see if it makes a difference. or maybe DailyTech could measure the current draw from the wall on the PS3, 360, gaming PC and see how much the power changes. i dunno. I don't think it is the PCB, they are very reliable even not mil-spec consumer grade products. it is more likely something with moving parts like a clogged dvd-rom or cooling. Oh well. it is just my 25 cents. I am just a guy who sometimes makes reports for the above mention company and his father has over 26 years of experience in making prototypes. I maybe wrong or totally off base. But I like new information proving me wrong. I would love to know what the real problem is. maybe someone fscked up in some driver


RE: ...
By NuclearDelta on 5/9/2007 6:39:01 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
it has nothing to do with the board being RoHS. Since lead is not used any ware int he manufacturing process, the heat required to melt the metals the use (mostly tin) require higher temperatures. from 350 to over 480 degrees. circuit manufactures have been working on RoHS designs since 1995. and have perfected it in about 2002. They had to change most of the materials to withstand being covered/dipped/dripped with hot metals. Secondly, circuit boards are designed and tested to withstand temps of 125 degrees Celsius. You are correct then the case and mobo expand at different rates, but at 50c, there isn't as much expansion as you think. Also remember when you built your own pc, the holes for the case screws in the mobo were rather larger than the screw shaft? That was for expansion.


Oh, I am aware of the melting of ROHS and leaded solder, the possible issue deals with thermal stress and the greater stiffness of the ROHS due to its tin base, as you mentioned. I was looking at a few online IEEE submissions a while back, but in some tests micro fractures were seen more frequently in ROHS solder when thermal cycling. I understand there are a variety of different ROHS complaint mixtures of solder, nothing like the mixture uniformity you had with the leaded days where most places used 63-37 solder mixture.

I know there will not be much expansion even at 50C, but if you couple that with the larger than average area, and minimal backing support of the X-bracket, it still is additional stress placed on the BGA package.

I spoke to my university's head of electronics a few months ago, and he has mentioned noting a higher rate of solder separation from thermal cycling in his repairs, primarily non-PC power supplies.

Regardless how you slice it, if there are BGA contact failures at a less than background rate, by leap of logic alone there must be some force(s) that are common to one another. I suppose making a list of things most visible to be possibly causing a problem would be a good place to start.

I just wish Microsoft will take a page from the PS3 play book and use a less minimalistic cooling system in future releases to deal with heat and noise.


RE: ...
By theapparition on 5/9/2007 7:34:10 AM , Rating: 2
Both you guys brought up very good posts. While I am knowledgable in the field, I'm not too versed on the actuall Xbox failure. From what I've heard, there seems to be an issue with the BGA interface to the board, something that Microsoft has attempted a remedy by gluing the perimeter of the chip.

My comments.

RoHS is far from perfected. Lead based solder has been used in electronics for over 50years. We have just begun to start using alternatives, and it is causing grief for the industry. Most notably are higher temperatures for reflow. With the higher temp cooling, that adds more of a thermal stress to the joints. The tin based solder is harder, but unfortunately more brittle and is more prone to shock. No study had found conclusive evidence for any RoHS compliant manufacturing to be superior to lead based. Long term data, at this point, is "inconclusive".

The effects of thermal expansion/contraction are rather small at 50°C, however, it doesn't take much to further stress the joints. I suspect, however, the larger culpret could be improper balance of copper in the board. Example, If layers 1-2 have full pours and the other layers have traces, the different expansion rates would cause the board to bow, putting a tensile, as well as the already present shear load on the contacts. All it takes is 1 contact to break (unless your lucky and it's a shared GND), and your done.

If I'm correct, hopefully they corrected this in the board respin on the elite. We'll see 6-9mos from now if elite systems have their share of problems too.-


RE: ...
By crystal clear on 5/9/2007 6:24:29 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
will you be available, free of charge, if/when this one breaks next year?


NO ! you got to do PDM-

Heard of PDM -Predictive Maintenance?

You need one for Xbox I suppose.

You know "max" uptime-"min" downtime-etc


wtf?
By dome1234 on 5/9/2007 2:00:35 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Moore responded, “I can’t comment on failure rates, because it’s just not something – it’s a moving target. What this consumer should worry about is the way that we’ve treated him.


I'm nauseous from all these spinning. Is this guy trying to emulate krazy ken now that the old chap's retiring?




RE: wtf?
By OxBow on 5/9/2007 9:31:02 AM , Rating: 3
That's what I thought when I read this. This sounds like Rumsfeld trying to justify pre-war intelligence. Who let this guy in front of a microphone.

I just got my 360 back from the service center. Everyone that I know that owns a 360 has sent their's in for service. This is a big problem for Microsoft and claiming that their service is better is just bait and switch spin. The problem is clearly related to poor design.


By cheetah2k on 5/8/2007 11:33:11 PM , Rating: 4
If M$ didnt have failure rates over and above their expected range, then I am quite confident they would be making profit on the console now, not in 2008.

I thankfully don't own one of these consoles. Out of 8 friends and family that have the 360, 6 have had returns, and more than half of those 6 have had multiple returns.




By crystal clear on 5/9/2007 5:44:42 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
Moore responded, “I can’t comment on failure rates, because it’s just not something – it’s a moving target.


I think he implies-

“I can’t comment on failure rates as I didnt bother to check it up"

By the way I am sure he is aware of-

TDR- "Total Defect Rate"




By deeznuts on 5/9/2007 12:43:47 PM , Rating: 3
Well he did say moving target. Could be it keeps moving up.


right
By jay401 on 5/9/2007 7:27:59 AM , Rating: 3
this is why everytime my coworkers ask me when i'm getting a 360 i tell them when the revision comes out with the die-shrink, because that's a significant enough hardware change it's likely they will actually fix the problems they are currently just patching up in make-shift ways.




Glad there's good service
By deeznuts on 5/8/2007 11:36:49 PM , Rating: 1
I'm glad there is good service for the consoles that do end up failing. However, what is a consumer to do if the abnormally high failure rate continues after your warranty has ended?




RE: Glad there's good service
By knowom on 5/9/2007 1:51:05 AM , Rating: 1
Sell it on ebay of course, but better do it quick before the IRS starts taxing you for selling stuff online! Basically said your screwed unless you feel like paying out $140 service fee for a repair charge which will likely only temporarily fix the problem for a few months so the MicroNopoly can keep on collecting cash off the ignorant and rich folk.


Once again . . .
By Rike on 5/9/2007 12:39:04 AM , Rating: 2
. . . the DT folks find the perfect picture to punctuate the story.




Glad I bought it from Costco
By ATC on 5/9/2007 1:26:36 AM , Rating: 1
I have a lunch 360 that has been meticulously taken care of with very light use (2-3 times a week).

Finally bit the dust for no apparent reason....screen started showing artifacts on some games and then all games and now it's pretty much unusable.

I took it back to Costco and got a full refund and instead of proceeding to buy another one I am holding off till the fall when they release the 65nm version which hopefully will be more reliable.

But in a way I'm glad I took it back because mine must have had a jet-powered DVD drive. We can hear it going from upstairs. Maybe the next 360 will be quiet too. Here's hoping.

Anyhow, I always thought the failure rate was exaggerated until mine failed. With the way I treated mine and how little use it got, I figured it would last longer.




RE: Glad I bought it from Costco
By ATC on 5/9/2007 1:27:31 AM , Rating: 1
"lunch" should read "launch"


Treatment...
By 3v1lkr0w on 5/9/2007 4:34:01 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
What this consumer should worry about is the way that we’ve treated him.


Yea...they treated me real well when mine broke. Lets see, I had to ship it at my own expense cause I'm military and living over seas, so they didnt send me a pre-paid box. When they finally sent it back to me, it broke the very next day, a whole new problem. They fixed it so I could turn on the system with the controller, but now it didnt even get past the load up screen. YAY!!! And after 3 months of waiting for it I finally get it back. Hows that for customer service???




The old & new
By crystal clear on 5/9/2007 10:16:32 AM , Rating: 2
Semiconductor Insights, an engineering consultancy firm in Kanata, Ontario, has put a tear-down of the Microsoft X-box 360 Elite game-playing computer on the Internet by way of a four-minute YouTube video.

Semiconductor Insights stated that the IBM processor in the Elite is not a 65-nm part but uses the same 90-nm technology as the original Xbox 360. The Elite incorporates a larger hard drive than its predecessor — 120-Gbyte versus 20-Gbyte — with HDMI v1.2 output for higher screen resolution. This signals Microsoft's intent to evolve the Xbox from a gaming console to a fully functional media center, Semiconductor Insights said. . "The CPU in the Xbox 360 Elite seems to be assembled in Canada whereas the CPU in the previous Xbox was marked 'Taiwan'," stated Rob Hilkes, a technology analyst at Semiconductor Insights. "This may indicate that while the previous CPU was built on Chartered's Fab7 in Singapore and assembled in Taiwan, the CPU of the Elite may be built in IBM's Fab B323 in East Fishkill, New York and assembled at IBM's assembly facility in nearby Bromont, Quebec. IBM and Chartered share design data at the 90nm node. We seem to have evidence now that Microsoft is indeed using both sources for the Xbox CPU."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOeCbt1SQZo

http://eetimes.eu/semi/199500064;jsessionid=OIXLB1...




Hmmmm
By room200 on 5/10/2007 12:30:41 AM , Rating: 2
How can we be certain that these failure rates are real, and not just people making things up? I can see PS3 fanboys reporting non-existing failed 360 machines as well as 360 fanboys reporting dead Ps3 that may not exist. I have to tell you I find it hard to believe these posts with people saying "My cousin is on his 6th" Xbox, or I've had 3 of them fail and other such nonsense. If you've been whacked in the head more than twice by the same person holding the same mallet, yet you keep going back, not only do you deserve it, but you're an idiot.




Spring update toasted my box!
By Learn2play007 on 5/16/2007 12:56:44 AM , Rating: 2
I am active military and I have a canadian fiancee who lives 35 minutes from the US Washington Border. Spring update and all of a sudden none of the downloadable content works. "This content is not available in your region". My fiancee brought this for me. It has lived at her house forever and now micro$oft forces me to take a fancier looking mod/update that HAXORS all of my attempted downloadables. No help from microsoft on this either. Licensing yadda yadda Rights. FTC where are you. I want a full refund since my Wii is my primary gaming sytem and this 360 box is now completely useless to me conveinently 5 months after I bought. Im so tired of this. When I first bought it I couldn't buy points until I called in. Then all was fine until this stupid update SPRUNG into my box. They might tell you to make a new Player ID in the region you are in ie Canada or Japan. DONT WASTE YOUR TIME! Canadian player ID's have a total of approx 10 downloads combined games and videos. Maybe it has to do with the CRTC that everything needs to be english/french in canada, I have no idea. I have a feeling everywhere else is much worse after all Canada is N.America last time I checked. I will place this on as many sites as I can as long as I am ticked off. Nice one hollywood. Screw your troops when they most likely have nothing else to do for some much needed relaxation behind enemy lines.




By teainthesahara on 5/9/2007 7:02:42 AM , Rating: 1
It only took 4 months but its happened.My Toshiba-Samsung DVD drive is dying and taking out my games with it...

I am furious as I looked after it so well, having it in the horizontal position and on a solid surface with plenty of air and ventilation.Now when I exit to dashboard I am greeted with a lovely grinding noise..

Seems that the red ring of death is now behind M$ and now the unreliable TSS corp drives are ruining our fun.I have got M$ to take my console in and replace the drive under my warranty. I couldnt get them to guarantee that they would give me the new BenQ drive that is in the Elite.They are much quieter and faster and haven't had the reliability issues of the Hitachi or TSS drives.

I feel bad now for ever having a go at the PS3 as I doubt it has as many disc drive related issues as the 360 did during its initial debut period.I still prefer the 360 but am disappointed by the shoddy hardware. I mean good DVD drives are cheap.They should offer to replace all the TSS drives with BenQ ones.

I hope to God I get a BenQ drive in my console....




M$ sucks
By EclipsedAurora on 5/9/07, Rating: -1
RE: M$ sucks
By NotAok on 5/9/2007 1:04:24 PM , Rating: 4
grow up


RE: M$ sucks
By EclipsedAurora on 5/9/07, Rating: 0
RE: M$ sucks
By EclipsedAurora on 5/10/2007 4:50:36 AM , Rating: 2
That's Microsoft
Windows having plenty of bugs
And now consoles having highly failure rate.

360 is not the prime for engineering
Whole bunch of crap!


All about defect-defected-defective-defects
By crystal clear on 5/9/07, Rating: -1
RE: All about defect-defected-defective-defects
By mmichii on 5/9/07, Rating: -1
By crystal clear on 5/9/2007 6:11:45 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
Like someone once said, aren't you glad that microsoft doesn't build airplanes?


Airplanes with "Lots" of "patches" every "Patch Tuesday"

quote:
I hope these extreme measures are enough


Heard of PDM -Predictive Maintenance ?

You need one for Xbox I suppose !

By the way I have PS3 with Linux loaded for non gaming purposes.


By theapparition on 5/9/2007 7:38:48 AM , Rating: 2
I'll agree with most of your points except for HDMI. 1.3 is pretty much useless for almost all applications. Almost all displays are incapable of displaying the increased color gamut.


By edpsx on 5/9/2007 9:53:53 AM , Rating: 2
All the new Samsung TVs (RPTV, I personally like the 6189)use HDMI 1.3 with over 100% Gamut. And when deep color finally gets used, they have that too.


By d0gb0y on 5/9/2007 2:49:55 PM , Rating: 2
MS didn't just lock out linux to be jerks, they did it to prevent people from 1. using it for other purposes 2. prevent piracy.

1. If MS is loosing money on making consoles in hope to make it back on software, why would they want to subsidize your hobby? Sony is OK with people using the PS3 only as a Blue Ray player because they'll get royalties of the movies. Now if people started using the PS3 for total different purposes, they might be a little upset at loosing $200 per console..

2. MS is trying to capitalize on the whole media experience. If they were not totally locked down, they would never be able to bring us IPTV. Lets see if Sony can bring IPTV to a platform where someone could capture the shows and distribute it. It might not happen, but it is more likely on an open system.

Just 2 cents.


By EclipsedAurora on 5/10/2007 4:49:53 AM , Rating: 2
That's Microsoft
Windows having plenty of bugs
And now consoles having highly failure rate.


"If a man really wants to make a million dollars, the best way would be to start his own religion." -- Scientology founder L. Ron. Hubbard











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