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Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer was quick to blast competitors like Google and Apple in a recent interview. Some of his remarks were more obtuse, though, such as, "You know, mama don’t let your phones grow up to be PCs or something. I don’t know."  (Source: CelebritySweating.com)
Steve Ballmer isn't afraid to speak ill of his competitors

Just because Internet Explorer 8 isn't the fastest or leanest browser on the block, doesn't mean its makers can't make a lot of noise about it.  Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer blasted Apple's Safari and Google's Chrome browsers in an action-packed interview with TechCrunch.

Mr. Ballmer states:

The most successful by far is Firefox. Chrome is a rounding error to date. Safari is a rounding error to date. But Firefox is not. The fact that there’s a lot of competitors probably is to our advantage. Yeah, we’re right now about 74 percent overall with the browser market, roughly speaking. But we’re having to compete like heck with IE 8, with great new features.

The other guys are getting more and more unanticipated competitive attack factors, the thing that Google announced yesterday where they replaced IE but they don’t tell you. I mean that’s how I would say it. For all intents and purposes of what they’re doing IE is not there. It’s their operating system. Instead of now masked as browser, it’s masked as a plug in basically to IE. So, you know, we’re going to have to compete like heck and you know, see where things go. The one thing that’s unclear is what’s the economic play for anybody else competing with us at the browser level. Is this all about kind of controlling the search box or is it about something else?

He is actually a bit off in his numbers -- recent marketshare estimates place Internet Explorer's marketshare in the mid sixties and give Firefox as much as 30 percent market share.  

Mr. Ballmer's latter remarks refer to Google Framework, a recently released plug-in for IE 8 that allows IE 8 to use Google's Javascript engine and parts of Google's rendering framework.  The plug-in released last week, and showed great promise, greatly speeding up Javascript performance and allowing HTML 5 support, according to early reports.  The release was not without its problems, though -- DailyTech downloaded it for testing and was unable to run tests as it consistently crashed.  Other users complained of installation problems on the plug-in's Google Group.  Still, you can't fault Google for ingenuity -- sneaking Chrome's engine Trojan horse-style into Microsoft's industry leading browser.  Mr. Ballmer, though, was less than impressed.

Mr. Ballmer says the EU and other governing bodies are being hypocritical scrutinizing Microsoft's bundling of IE 8 with Windows 7 while allowing Apple and Google to release similar bundled software (Safari, Chrome).  He did concede, though, that Microsoft's dominate marketshare may change the rules for it slightly.

He was quick to belittle Google's upcoming Chrome OS (targeted for netbooks), stating, "You know, Google is talking about building an operating system with the name of its browser. Nobody should be confused. The browser they think of is the operating system and the question is you know sort of like Marc Andreessen in the late ’90s is back at work at Google. If you remember, he said something like, Windows will just be a poorly debugged set of device drivers running Netscape…Now, that’s kind of basically the attitude expressed in Chrome Browser, Chrome OS. Windows is just, you know, sort of a bag of bits that manages the hardware under the Chrome operating system and oops, we can even do our own device drivers for the Chrome operating system. Of course, the Chrome operating system isn’t available, hasn’t shipped."

He concludes with some jabs at Apple's Snow Leopard and continued talk trash about Google's upcoming OS.  He raves:

Here’s Windows and Windows is a very successful product. How do you attack Windows? Well, you attack with the high end, and hardware. That’s an attack. That’s – I won’t call it the Snow Leopard attack. I’ll call it the Mac attack of which Snow Leopard is a piece. You could attack from the side. That’s the Chrome – Firefox attack. You can attack from cheap, from below. You’re not from the side. You’re one on one, but that’s kind of a Linux, Android, presumably Chrome OS, who knows, attack vector. You can attack through phones that grow up. You know, mama don’t let your phones grow up to be PCs or something. I don’t know. But that’s another attack vector. So, you could say how do I feel about all these attack vectors? Strong, I feel very strong here.


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In all fairness...
By ChristopherO on 9/30/2009 3:32:25 PM , Rating: 5
Ballmer isn't too far off base. At least when it comes to Chrome. It's snort of smarmy to drop your technology into someone else's UI and make you think you're using another browser.

I mean it's different for a browser maker to use someone else's engine, since that's still *their* branding (all those third-party apps, with customized UIs that use IE, or FF, etc).

But Google isn't an altruistic company. I mean, they make virtually all their money off collecting your personal information and using it for ads.

I'm with Ballmer in so much that it's just not right to take the core part of someone else's browser and replace it with your own. And the problem is Google played right into their hands -- they marketed "You want to use Google Chrome at the office but IT won't let you?"

I mean, sheesh, they're encouraging employees to break their corporate usage policies.

Seriously, why can't companies compete like in the old days? If Google wants an OS, release an OS, if they want people to use Chrome, pay for advertising. Or are people only allowed to pay them, and it's fundamentally wrong if they actually need to pay? I've yet to see a Google commercial, but I see tons of Windows 7 ones.




RE: In all fairness...
By reader1 on 9/30/09, Rating: -1
RE: In all fairness...
By Ratinator on 9/30/2009 4:06:18 PM , Rating: 5
Where have you been the last 10 years. They tried to do exactly that and got their asses sued for for monopolistic policies.


RE: In all fairness...
By DarkElfa on 9/30/2009 4:16:20 PM , Rating: 4
Is reader 1 actually Steve Jobs?

Hey reader, you know that Apple already does that, right?


RE: In all fairness...
By reader1 on 9/30/09, Rating: -1
RE: In all fairness...
By Samus on 9/30/2009 4:45:29 PM , Rating: 5
You're buying a dictatorship operating system. I'd rather have a computer that wasn't tied down and let its' supporting programmers be free to write whatever they want to support it. Hmm, maybe thats why Windows has 95% market share...just a thought?


RE: In all fairness...
By michael2k on 10/2/2009 5:52:39 AM , Rating: 1
Three separate issues. You can install anything you want on a Mac, so your first requirement has already been met. OS X lets you program anything you want for it, so your second requirement has been met also.

Finally you suppose that is why Windows has 95% market share; clearly incorrect since all the operating systems allow you to install and program anything you wish on it.

A more likely scenario is that Windows was mandatorily licensed on all PCs (at least until 2001), which would explain why it has 95% market share. It used to be they had 97% market share, so they've been slipping these past few years.

It's unlikely anything can be done to reverse that number beyond 90%; all Apple and Google can hope is that the iPhone and Android continue to be successful. At this point Apple has about even market share with Windows Mobile, both at about 10%, in smart phones. As that market grows in prominence then Microsoft's control of the market will shrink as hand held computers become more powerful.

But that's 20 years from now.


RE: In all fairness...
By Bateluer on 9/30/2009 5:17:03 PM , Rating: 5
Do you just spout these idiotic comments or are you actually deluded enough to actually believe them?

You seriously want to surrender all control over your computer to a 3rd party, be told what you can and cannot run on it, be told what programs you can and cannot write for it?

Closed systems are a very bad thing. If IBM had developed the PC as a closed system, had DARPA developed TCP/IP as a closed system, we'd still be tawdling around with technology from the 1970s because there'd be no innovation and development would be stagnant.

Closed systems are a very very bad thing, not just for the consumer, but ultimately for the content providers as well.


RE: In all fairness...
By ChristopherO on 9/30/2009 5:53:42 PM , Rating: 5
Actually the IBM PC was developed as a closed system. Phoenix reverse engineered the BIOS using techniques that probably aren't legally permissible these days. It's because of Phoenix, and the fact that Intel didn't care where they sold CPUs, that the PC even exists as a platform.

I get your point though, but all big companies are usually shortsighted about open/closed architectures.


RE: In all fairness...
By MrPoletski on 10/1/2009 8:45:27 AM , Rating: 2
Reverse engineered the bios?

I'm pretty sure the BIOs's back then (and proabbly still now tbh) were written in assembly language, so 'reverse engineering' would have meant ripping the code off the chip and converting the assembled code back nito real syntax.

Sure, you'd have no commenting and such in your app, which would make assembly a nightmare to debug, but you'd have the code.


RE: In all fairness...
By michael2k on 10/2/2009 5:56:28 AM , Rating: 3
Um, that was illegal even 25 years ago.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_PC_compatible
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_v._Franklin

Essentially you had to, really, reverse engineer the BIOS or you would be liable for copyright infringement since the BIOS was really a piece of code held under copyright by IBM.


RE: In all fairness...
By sprockkets on 10/1/2009 3:14:55 AM , Rating: 2
FYI The Microsoft Marketplace aka the app store for WinMobile is going to have the same restrictions as the app store (no replacing the dialer, no changing out the default browser or media player), plus a $99 fee for covering the expense of them evaluating your app. If it is rejected, you get the privilege of spending another $99 to resubmit.

Why they are doing this, I don't know. It only makes sense if they are killing installation via cab files.

Apple is a paradox: They control the app store, yet give you a browser that supports HTML5, and literally forced YouTube to allow videos to be streamed without Flash, by just giving the video natively (h.264).


RE: In all fairness...
By damianrobertjones on 9/30/2009 5:08:54 PM , Rating: 2
"If Micro$hit had any brains, they would simply control what software can run on Windows. They would also control what web content can be accessed."

I would like the choice to install what I like. For instance, in work, I can control what people run on their machines via group policy. I can also chance and filter web content.

With the introduction of Vista and now Win7 you have inbuilt facilities to allow what runs and what can be viewed via Parental Controls.

So... I can do exacttly what you state at home and work and Microsoft have given me a CHOICE. If I didn't have that choice, I wouldn't 'buy' the damnn OS.

As for illegal Win7 installs... I'm sure 'Microsoft' (Please remember how to spell that word) would prefer that than people installing Linux or OSX. Opps, sorry, you'd have to have a hackintosh for that.


RE: In all fairness...
By tfk11 on 9/30/2009 4:01:33 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I'm with Ballmer in so much that it's just not right to take the core part of someone else's browser and replace it with your own.

If someone wants to run chrome inside ie, why not? Many choose to run ie inside ff for various reasons.

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/141...

Compared to chrome, the ie engine is slower and more problematic with sites that are standards compliant and make heavy use of javascript both of which are becoming much more common these days. If someone prefers to use the ie interface for whatever reason but would rather use the chrome engine I see no reason why they shouldn't be presented with the opportunity.


RE: In all fairness...
By ChristopherO on 9/30/2009 4:13:25 PM , Rating: 4
Because IE is Microsoft's app. If Google wanted to run IE in Chrome that's *their* app (just like Opera can run almost everything), then I wouldn't have a problem. Adding a toolbar to IE isn't bad either, because you know precisely *who* controls the toolbar, and it typically doesn't extend beyond it.

It's also pretty bad to suggest you can get around corporate edicts by installing Chrome Frame. At my last two firms all incidents were reported to HR. Heck, I feel guilty reading the news during work, but I'm stuck home recovering from cancer treatments and breaks keep me sane.


RE: In all fairness...
By Reclaimer77 on 9/30/2009 4:03:47 PM , Rating: 3
I have to agree with him. Firefox is lightyears ahead of Chrome, and who actually uses Saffari anyway ?


RE: In all fairness...
By nevermore781 on 9/30/2009 4:27:01 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I have to agree with him. Firefox is lightyears ahead of Chrome, and who actually uses Saffari anyway ?


LOL - Both Chrome and Safari use WebKit. There really isnt much difference in Chrome vs Safari, which is fine with me.

I disagree about ff being "lightyears" ahead of webkit. Yes it has some good features, like its plugin and extension management, but as soon as you load it up with all the extras you want its memory has doubled as well as load time. I really dislike that you cant just set the plugins/extension to automatically update when needed and FF bugs the crap outta you until you do update.

I have all 4 major browsers installed on my Win7 box and typically am using Chrome most, followed by IE8, ff, and opera.

TBH - i could care less about the UI of the browser and its load times if all of them rendered CSS3 correctly *coughIEcough* "why did you render border radius like a box IE?"


RE: In all fairness...
By Reclaimer77 on 9/30/2009 9:29:15 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I have all 4 major browsers installed on my Win7 box and typically am using Chrome most, followed by IE8, ff, and opera.


Yeah how much of your time using Chrome is NON porno site time ? You know what I mean Mr "incognito"...


RE: In all fairness...
By Omega215D on 9/30/2009 10:54:58 PM , Rating: 2
Safari on my MacBook is really smooth and pretty fast. But with the latest Mac version of Firefox I find that those advantages are no longer there and I turn to Firefox more often.

On my Vista desktop I used Firefox and IE quite a bit (even with IE tab some sites still run a bit funky) and Chrome is used once in a while along with Sleipnir (Japanese browser).


RE: In all fairness...
By sprockkets on 10/1/2009 3:18:44 AM , Rating: 1
Ever tried using the mobile version of FF? It seems that Palm, Google, Nokia, all like WebKit, the basis of Safari.

Opera Mobile is nice, except for the fact it needs proxy servers to work. Lame.

My friend moved to Safari after seeing the bookmark view it does. Pretty nice, but adblock is indispensable to me.


RE: In all fairness...
By omnicronx on 10/1/2009 8:34:46 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Ever tried using the mobile version of FF?
There really isnt one yet, Minimo was not really a real release, it seems like the FF team was waiting for more powerful mobile devices before they unless Fennec.
quote:
Opera Mobile is nice, except for the fact it needs proxy servers to work. Lame.
Uhhh no.. Opera Mobile 9.7 has the option to use a proxy, 9.5 doesnt have it at all. Opera is also starting to give webkit a run for it money, it IS definately faster at rendering, and also has limited flash support. Perhaps you are thinking of opera mini.


RE: In all fairness...
By michael2k on 10/2/2009 8:48:05 PM , Rating: 2
Every single iPhone and iPod touch owner uses Safari, so about 55+ million people right now. How many mobile phones use Firefox right now?


Mr. Ballmer
By CvP on 9/30/2009 3:38:52 PM , Rating: 1
never fails to amuse me!




RE: Mr. Ballmer
By DarkElfa on 9/30/2009 4:19:53 PM , Rating: 3
He is a glorified used car salesman and I for one can't believe that Bill let him be in charge of MS.


RE: Mr. Ballmer
By themaster08 on 10/1/2009 5:33:34 AM , Rating: 2
Well from where I'm standing, he seems to be doing a damn good job.

As the Windows 7 beta testing shows, Microsoft are more in touch with their user base than ever. That to me, is something of great importance, and as a result, their users get what they want, as opposed to what Microsoft wants us to want.


RE: Mr. Ballmer
By sebmel on 10/1/2009 8:16:42 AM , Rating: 4
On what basis is he doing a "damn good job"?

Business is, as far as I understand it, about making more money than you had yesterday.

10 years ago Microsoft's share price was $45
10 years later that, split adjusted, share price is $25
Where that current price adjusted for inflation the story would be about 50% worse than that.

The Xbox has lost well over $10 billion dollars in less than a decade.
Now, the biggest losses on a single product that I have ever heard of, coupled to the company losing about 75% of its market capitalisation in a decade, doesn't lead me to conclude: "Damn fine job".

Just to rub salt into the wound, since Ballmer brought up Apple. What have they done in the last decade? Split adjusted, of course:

Share price 10 years ago: $15
Share price now: $185

So Apple are UP +1130% in the time that Microsoft are DOWN -55%.

Damn fine job? Would you give someone a job with that on their resume?


RE: Mr. Ballmer
By zsdersw on 10/1/2009 9:50:45 AM , Rating: 2
As Apple gets more closed and dictatorship-like and Microsoft gets more open and less dictatorship-like I have no doubt Apple will make a lot of money and Microsoft will shed some.

Ultimately, though, it's Apple who has the most to lose. The more they expand, the bigger target they become.. and the more their problems will resemble Microsoft's. Microsoft, on the other hand, is used to being attacked. It's reputation on security and viability fronts can only get better, not worse.

Business is about making money, but it's also about the long term. What scenario looks better, from any perspective, long-term? Microsoft's or Apple's?


RE: Mr. Ballmer
By encryptkeeper on 10/1/2009 11:47:13 AM , Rating: 2
Microsoft gets more open and less dictatorship-like

I wouldn't count on that. A Microsoft salesman once told me that Microsoft's goal is to become the sole provider for electronic data storage and communication standards in the world. "A PC on every desk" was never their true objective. Can you imagine if MS accomplished this? There would be no advancement in any software field. We'd be using DOS if it wasn't for MS copying Apples GUI. We'd be on IE 6 forever if it wasn't for Firefox. Office was copied largely from Lotus software. And so on. So don't be deluded.


RE: Mr. Ballmer
By jRaskell on 10/1/2009 3:07:45 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
We'd be using DOS if it wasn't for MS copying Apples GUI.


It wasn't Apples GUI to begin with.


RE: Mr. Ballmer
By Cappadocious on 10/1/2009 4:21:23 PM , Rating: 3
Apple can thank Xerox for that.


RE: Mr. Ballmer
By ersts on 10/1/2009 7:24:51 PM , Rating: 2
But Apple paid for it by buying stock from Xerox, since they didn't know how to market it. Microsoft licensed it from apple but since the agreement was so poorly worded they got away with delaying Office for the Mac and allowing them to copy it.

That was the last time Apple would not patent their creations, as that cost them big time.


RE: Mr. Ballmer
By ChickenMcTest on 10/1/2009 2:21:29 PM , Rating: 2
Except that Microsoft had a 2 for 1 stock split in 2003, and Microsoft started paying a quarterly dividend in 2004.

Microsoft also has a return on assets of 17.40%, while Apple has a return on assets of only 10.81%.

If you consider return on assets to be the most effective measure of management effectiveness than Ballmer is doing ok.


RE: Mr. Ballmer
By sebmel on 10/1/2009 2:53:03 PM , Rating: 2
The original post was very explicit on the subject of share splits: the prices quoted are split adjusted.

What do you mean by 'return on assets':

earnings vs cash
earnings vs market capitalisation
earnings vs current market value of all property

The first fluctuates with purchases
The second fluctuates with market confidence in growth
The third fluctuates with property values and infrastructure investment

The only clear way to demonstrate health of a company is to look at two things:

Are they making a good profit?
Are they growing faster than REAL inflation? (Not that nonsense the Fed makes up)

Consider Microsoft:
Are they making a reasonable profit? Yes, but not enough to justify past share price/market cap.
Are they growing? No
Have they a good track record of profitable development of new products? No

The Xbox has made inroads against the Playstation but at massive cost. $10 billion lost.

Apple ticks all boxes:

Profitable/ fast growth/ successful product development/ good cost control


RE: Mr. Ballmer
By ChickenMcTest on 10/1/2009 3:51:34 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
The original post was very explicit on the subject of share splits: the prices quoted are split adjusted.


You have to split adjust the price from 10/1/99 not today's price.

quote:
What do you mean by 'return on assets':

earnings vs cash
earnings vs market capitalisation
earnings vs current market value of all property

The first fluctuates with purchases
The second fluctuates with market confidence in growth
The third fluctuates with property values and infrastructure investment


Return on Assets = Net Income / Total Assets

quote:
Consider Microsoft:
Are they making a reasonable profit? Yes, but not enough to justify past share price/market cap.


You claim Microsoft is not making enough profit to justify it's share price, HOWEVER, Apple has a higher PE ratio than Microsoft.

quote:
Have they a good track record of profitable development of new products? No


Are you using windows?


RE: Mr. Ballmer
By sebmel on 10/1/2009 10:36:20 PM , Rating: 3
Dear me, how many things can someone misunderstand in a single post?

OK, one last try.

Point 1.
Split adjusted... yes... it's all done & said now three times. Check it out at Yahoo. Do you really think they would be stupid enough to publish graphs of share price and hide share splits? Both Apple and Microsoft have had multiple share price splits. If you don't like to trust Yahoo go to Microsoft's own site and figures... you'll find the same numbers.

"Yahoo! Finance offers access to historical quote data in tabular format in several ... Data is adjusted using appropriate split and dividend." Instead of making lazy accusations do a little search next time.

Point 2.
"Return on Assets = Net Income / Total Assets"
Yes, OK that's case three which is a volatile measure of how a company is doing because property, and other assets change value. Familiarise yourself with the controversy over 'Mark to Market'. It's a useful measure but one has to bear in mind that it is only part of the story. It tells one nothing about growth. It says nothing about market confidence and little about credit rating.

Point 3.
"You claim Microsoft is not making enough profit to justify it's share price"

No, read again:
not enough to justify PAST share price

I've helped you out with some upper case. Microsoft's current growth and earnings are insufficient to raise it's share price anywhere near the level it was 10 years ago. The market is paying roughly 25% of what it was paying a decade ago for a Microsoft share.

Point 4.
"Are you using Windows?"

What kind of a question is that? Are you seriously suggesting that you are incapable of a dispassionate appraisal of a company whose product you use? The fan-boy juvenilia is certainly not something I espouse or aspire to. I recommend you do the same. Is there anything sadder than intellectual suicide in the lame hope of fraternity with some multinational that doesn't even know you exist?

Come to think of it... ciao.


RE: Mr. Ballmer
By ChickenMcTest on 10/2/2009 11:02:07 AM , Rating: 2
quote:

Point 1.
Split adjusted... yes... it's all done & said now three times. Check it out at Yahoo. Do you really think they would be stupid enough to publish graphs of share price and hide share splits? Both Apple and Microsoft have had multiple share price splits. If you don't like to trust Yahoo go to Microsoft's own site and figures... you'll find the same numbers.

"Yahoo! Finance offers access to historical quote data in tabular format in several ... Data is adjusted using appropriate split and dividend." Instead of making lazy accusations do a little search next time.

If split adjusted is so easy why did you post an incorrect price for 10/1/99? You posted the NON-split adjusted 10/1/99 price.

quote:
Point 2.
"Return on Assets = Net Income / Total Assets"
Yes, OK that's case three which is a volatile measure of how a company is doing because property, and other assets change value. Familiarise yourself with the controversy over 'Mark to Market'. It's a useful measure but one has to bear in mind that it is only part of the story. It tells one nothing about growth. It says nothing about market confidence and little about credit rating.

We are replying to a post talking about Ballmers effectiveness as CEO. The financial measure typically used to compare management effectiveness is Return on Assets. That ratio is net GAAP income divided by total balance sheet assets.

The controversy over market to market accounting? Its clear from your statement you do not understand mark to market accounting. Equity securities classified as trading or available for sale have to be recorded at FMV. The net effect of that on MS balance sheet for 2008 is about $1 billion in unrealized gains, which is not big enough to substantially change the ratio.

quote:
No, read again:
not enough to justify PAST share price


MS revenue has grown from $20 billion in 1999 to $60 billion in 2008. Which is fairly amazing for a company of its size. Apple has grown faster yes, however, its easier to grow when you are a smaller company.

quote:
Point 4.
"Are you using Windows?"

What kind of a question is that? blah blah blah


You claimed MS had a poor track record of producing quality products, when exactly the opposite is true. Windows is the operating system of choice through out the world. Windows is so amazingly good people will buy it EVEN THOUGH YOU CAN GET OTHER OPERATING SYSTEMS FOR FREE! Same goes for the Microsoft office suite. XBOX for all its hardware problems has captured a huge market share in only 2 generations.


RE: Mr. Ballmer
By Reclaimer77 on 10/1/2009 8:35:56 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Consider Microsoft: Are they making a reasonable profit? Yes, but not enough to justify past share price/market cap. Are they growing? No Have they a good track record of profitable development of new products? No


Are you an idiot? Yes.


RE: Mr. Ballmer
By ChickenMcTest on 10/1/2009 2:25:21 PM , Rating: 2
Microsoft also has a higher operating and profit margin than apple. MS also has a much lower PE ratio than Apple. Apple stock is overpriced compared to their financial performance, imo.


RE: Mr. Ballmer
By sebmel on 10/1/2009 2:40:16 PM , Rating: 2
Apple's higher PE ratio is a reflection of the market's confidence in their ability to grow. The company would be overpriced had it not demonstrated the ability to:

raise Mac sales from 2% to 10% of the US market...
enter the smart phone market and grab 13% while growing at a rate of 400% a year...
enter the mp3 player market and grab 70% of that...
enter the phone app market and sell two billion apps in just over a year...
enter the music sales market, sell 8 billion songs and become the world's largest music vendor.

Incidentally, Microsoft is in all those markets too. Care to remember how well they are doing?

When you don't think a company is going to grow one based one's decision to buy on the ratio of share price to dividend. That is why Microsoft's shares are worth only 25% of what they were ten years ago.


RE: Mr. Ballmer
By ChickenMcTest on 10/1/2009 4:02:56 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Apple's higher PE ratio is a reflection of the market's confidence in their ability to grow. The company would be overpriced had it not demonstrated the ability to:

raise Mac sales from 2% to 10% of the US market...
enter the smart phone market and grab 13% while growing at a rate of 400% a year...
enter the mp3 player market and grab 70% of that...
enter the phone app market and sell two billion apps in just over a year...
enter the music sales market, sell 8 billion songs and become the world's largest music vendor.


Ok and Microsoft showed the ability to enter the operating system market and dominate the world?

Care to remember Apple in the 1990s it was down and out?

The main reason Microsoft is moving into hardware like game consoles, mp3 players, and (coming soon) smart phones is because they have the market for their primary product locked up and put away.


RE: Mr. Ballmer
By sprockkets on 10/1/2009 7:45:47 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Ok and Microsoft showed the ability to enter the operating system market and dominate the world? Care to remember Apple in the 1990s it was down and out?


One person did it by forbidding OEMs to put any other OS other than DOS and later Windows. What is spectacular about this is that Win95 was so behind in technology, still ran on DOS, while others such as NeXT and Unix clones already had true multitasking and robust memory management as early as 1993.

The other person came back by focusing on OSX, then offering consumers a well made music player and phone.

quote:
The main reason Microsoft is moving into hardware like game consoles, mp3 players, and (coming soon) smart phones is because they have the market for their primary product locked up and put away.


More importantly, they know that the desktop is obsolete, and have been trying, desperately to make a new form factor, and always failed. PlaysForSure, Zune, (3rg gen looks promising but actually others already have 720p players on the market, 2 years ago), Orgami, WinMob, Gizmodo, Xbox, (though it is making money now), Surface are all failures in the market.


RE: Mr. Ballmer
By sebmel on 10/1/2009 10:40:43 PM , Rating: 2
May I suggest to you that the history of Microsoft and it's deal with IBM is rather more interesting than you appear to know:

http://www.ecis.eu/documents/Finalversion_Consumer...


RE: Mr. Ballmer
By ChickenMcTest on 10/2/2009 11:14:09 AM , Rating: 2
quote:

May I suggest to you that the history of Microsoft and it's deal with IBM is rather more interesting than you appear to know:

I know it well, and if you did you would know the true dagger through Apples heart was windows 95 =)


RE: Mr. Ballmer
By FITCamaro on 10/1/2009 1:56:55 PM , Rating: 2
I have to admit he seems like he was freakin high when he made these statements.


Ballmer's iPhone quote
By DCstewieG on 9/30/2009 4:00:49 PM , Rating: 2
Ballmer's quote about the iPhone gaining no marketshare that DailyTech randomly shows at the bottom of the page should tell you how large a grain of salt you should take his comments with.




RE: Ballmer's iPhone quote
By NA1NSXR on 9/30/2009 6:10:57 PM , Rating: 5
If you saw that interview in its entirety and in context you will see that he was actually pretty accurate in his forecast.


RE: Ballmer's iPhone quote
By gstrickler on 9/30/09, Rating: -1
RE: Ballmer's iPhone quote
By sebmel on 10/1/2009 8:37:40 AM , Rating: 3
Steve Ballmer:
"There's no chance that the iPhone is going to get any significant market share. No chance," said Ballmer. "It's a $500 subsidized item. They may make a lot of money. But if you actually take a look at the 1.3 billion phones that get sold, I'd prefer to have our software in 60% or 70% or 80% of them, than I would to have 2% or 3%, which is what Apple might get."

Wikipedia:
"Windows Mobile's share of the smartphone market has been in decline year-on-year. Gartner research data showed that while the total smartphone industry grew 27% between 2008 and 2009, Windows Mobile's share of the smartphone market fell 2.7% in that same period."

CNN Fortune: Brainstorm Tech
"iPhone market share grew 375% in Q2
August 13, 2009 9:32 AM
Source: Gartner August 2009

Sales of Nokia's (NOK) Symbian smartphones are drifting. Apple's (AAPL) iPhone is gaining on RIM's (RIMM) BlackBerry. Microsoft's (MSFT) Windows Mobile is still sinking. And the launch of the Palm (PALM) Pre barely made a ripple in the gobal smartphone market.

Those were the headlines from the smartphone portion of Gartner's 2009 Q2 mobile phone report, which saw smartphone sales grow 27% even as overall mobile phone sales, feeling recessionary pressure, fell 6%.

In this context, Apple was the clear winner. Its iPhone sales, as Gartner counts them, grew more than 500% year to year, and its market share, as we figure it, grew 375%."

So the figures I see on CNN show the iPhone at 13% of the market and the fastest growing product at at least 375% year on year. Microsoft's Windows Mobile market share is currently at 9% and shrinking.

Finally, back to Ballmer. He predicted 2 to 3% market share for Apple... was he right?
He predicted 60 to 80% market share for Windows Mobile... was he right?

Those are the facts, you decide.


RE: Ballmer's iPhone quote
By gstrickler on 10/5/2009 11:24:18 AM , Rating: 2
Don't you just love the DT readers sometimes? Someone posts a completely baseless claim that Ballmer was essentially correct (if taken in context), with no evidence to back his claim, and get's a 5. I reply that he's wrong and get rated down to -1.

You reply with the quote in it's context, clearly showing that Ballmer was dead wrong, and only get a 3.

What's wrong with this picture?


RE: Ballmer's iPhone quote
By encryptkeeper on 10/1/2009 11:34:26 AM , Rating: 2
Is it just me or does MS spend more time trying to get people to use IE than they do advertising their Zune players?


By encryptkeeper on 10/1/2009 11:32:36 AM , Rating: 2
So, you know, we’re going to have to compete like heck and you know, see where things go. The one thing that’s unclear is what’s the economic play for anybody else competing with us at the browser level. Is this all about kind of controlling the search box or is it about something else?

Well Steve, maybe everyone in the world doesn't think MS products are the best or only things available. The real question is, why is Microsoft trying so hard to "win" the browser war when it gives IE away for free? Sure, development costs are recouped through sales of Windows, etc. But there's no upfront charge for IE.




By sebmel on 10/1/2009 3:06:17 PM , Rating: 2
"The real question is, why is Microsoft trying so hard to "win" the browser war when it gives IE away for free?"

If you don't know the answer to that question you don't know much about Microsoft, its business methods and the reasons for its success. Its all about the control & manipulation of standards, coupled with the risk a browser poses to an operating system sold by a company which doesn't sell closed boxes, à la Apple.

If you control standards you can break your competitor's product and make it look buggy.
If you control the browser market you stop anyone subverting your OS domination by running apps in the browser over the internet.

Want to know more? Here:

http://www.ecis.eu/documents/Finalversion_Consumer...


By sprockkets on 10/1/2009 9:01:13 PM , Rating: 2
Browsers are the trojan horse to advertising. Look at FireFox; Google paid them $50 million to make them the default search engine and home page. You can bet they are getting a ROI.

IE by default uses Live no, now Bing search, MSN.com as the home page, and profits from you going to that site.

Microsoft also used IE to kill off quicktime by intentionally crippling playback of their media, while Netscape had no issues playing qt media. They also bundled Macromedia Flash in 1995 to also kill quicktime.

Apple not putting Flash on the iphone is payback to Microsoft for screwing them over. Besides, with HTML5, no one will need stupid middleware apps to show video anyhow. YouTube on the iphone proves that anyhow, as it just directly feeds the h.264 videos without the stupid Flash wrapper.


By sebmel on 10/1/2009 10:51:03 PM , Rating: 2
"Apple not putting Flash on the iphone is payback to Microsoft for screwing them over"

You were right in the earlier part of your post but this is wrong. Flash is written by Adobe. It's not in the iPhone because it's extremely resource intensive on the Mac OS. The iPhone battery life would suffer. Apple uses the open standard H264, which is much more efficient with resources and thus cooler and better for the battery.

Microsoft write Silverlight as a Flash competitor. Market acceptance is not high enough yet to warrant Apple licensing it. Microsoft/Silverlight just recently lost a couple of large clients to Flash... one in the UK and the other in the US.


By sprockkets on 10/2/2009 1:18:41 AM , Rating: 2
Wait, it was 1999 with IE 5 that they bundled it.

While the reasons you present are correct, it is a turn of events. Now Apple is using around its 52 million installed user base of iphone/itouch users to push HTML5 instead. Like you said, Apple isn't going to wait for Adobe to optimize Flash for the itouch/iphone; if history is any indicator, they never will.

Not sure why you think it was Adobe; it was Macromedia Flash before that. Also keep in mind that as of version 9, Flash natively plays h.264 and according to them (doubt it), it is hardware accelerated.

There actually was a lot more to it than just video; there was Microsoft's VML and Adobe's PGML. Macromedia/Microsoft supported VML. The W3C people got features from both put into SVG. However, Microsoft still pushed for VML, and without their support, SVG stagnated. IE8 still doesn't support SVG by default.

If you have dd-wrt or tomato firmware in your WRT54GL router or similar, you can watch the graphs of your bandwidth. All other browsers support SVG natively.

Since Microsoft at the time had around 98% of the market, and of course IE was pretty much now dominating, everyone had Flash. And since everyone had it, you can reach more with Flash than anything else, so Flash video was born.

Silverlight to me is worthless. Microsoft promotes Linux compatibility with Moonlight, yet no web site ever acknowledges its compatibility, so no site ever works.


Steve Ballmer talking trash? Nuff said...
By flurazepam on 9/30/2009 3:31:15 PM , Rating: 2
By B3an on 10/1/2009 7:52:26 AM , Rating: 2
OMG.

The first vid there is truly epic. LOL.


By sebmel on 10/1/2009 9:00:57 AM , Rating: 2
The presses would break...
By amanojaku on 9/30/2009 3:41:08 PM , Rating: 1
If Ballmer said anything truly nice about a competitor. In fact, companies only say nice things about each other when prompted publicly to avoid looking like total douche bags and getting sued for slander or libel.

How's this for a marketting pitch: "Our competitors make MUCH better products than we do. Go buy them!!!" Miracle on 34th street my ass...




RE: The presses would break...
By gstrickler on 9/30/2009 5:54:33 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
If Ballmer said anything useful.


Clarified that for you. ;)


IE 8 and Chrome
By drycrust on 10/1/2009 12:00:49 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Chrome is a rounding error to date. Safari is a rounding error to date


Sadly, Linux doesn't even get a mention. I guess at less than 1% of the Operating Systems in use we don't even appear on his radar. Still, I'd have thought at least Google would have come up with a Linux browser, especially as legend has it they run their whole system on Linux.




Chrome plugin BAD
By toyotabedzrock on 10/2/2009 5:12:50 PM , Rating: 2
I like Chrome for its speed, but the plugin has caused major problems. Even after disabling it flash content now causes it to crash.




There are other browsers
By muckymuck on 10/3/2009 1:18:37 AM , Rating: 2
Did any of you tried Maxthon?
http://maxthon.com/

This browser works the way you want it.
Everything is adjustable and it's faster than IE, etc.
IE crash on some wesites and Maxthon does not.

If am not mistaken it's Japanese.
All the plugins are Japanese.
I prefer this browser over any of them.
Give it shot. It will take a little time to get familiar with it :)




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