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Modders' days of playing Halo 3 and other games on Xbox Live appear to be at an end. Microsoft just banned approximately 600,000 users for modding.  (Source: YouTube)
Microsoft says modded consoles are a haven for piracy

Microsoft is serious about stamping out Xbox modding.  Modding involves using hardware or software hacks to circumvent the protection technology on a video game console.  Modding has some morally ambiguous uses -- such as installing an alternative OS, or playing games/DVDs from outside your zone (both practices are technically illegal according to some sources and/or violate you EULA).  However, one less morally ambiguous cause for modding is to allow pirated games to play just like legally purchased discs.

The console makers, including Microsoft, have pushed for international legislation banning modding, which they say is driving piracy.  The results were showcased in the recent arrest of a Cal State student by federal agents.  The student had been making and selling modded Xboxes, a crime that could earn him 10 years in prison according to authorities.

While Microsoft obviously cannot pursue that kind of legal action against every owner of a modded Xbox, it has just taken a sweeping step to try to punish those who mod.  It has just issued a large set of bans disconnecting, according to BBC News, over 600,000 Xbox 360 users from Xbox Live, the company's popular online gaming service.  With approximately 20 million current Xbox Live subscribers, this represents as much as a 3 percent cut to Microsoft's total online gaming population.

A statement released from Microsoft reiterated that modding "violates" the console's "terms of use" and that the result will be terminated service.  Writes the company, "All consumers should know that piracy is illegal and that modifying their Xbox 360 console to play pirated discs violates the Xbox Live terms of use, will void their warranty and result in a ban from Xbox Live.  The health of the video game business depends on customers paying for the genuine products and services they receive from manufacturers, retailers, and the third parties that support them."

Banned users can play games offline as if nothing happened.  However, when they try to log into their Xbox Live account, they now receive a message stating, "Your console has been banned from Xbox."

Microsoft was tight lipped about how many users were cut off from the popular gaming service or how it identified them.  A spokesperson merely commented, "We do not reveal specifics, but can say that all consoles have been verified to have violated the terms of use."

Recently, Microsoft has been working hard to keep a tighter grip on its Xbox revenue stream, following in the example of Apple, Inc. and others.  Its new update reportedly will lock out third party storage solutions from the console.  Third party storage typically retails for much less that Microsoft's offerings.  By locking out its competitors, Microsoft likely is hoping to tack on more earnings to its already substantial stream from the Xbox.


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It's all about the money....
By weskurtz0081 on 11/11/2009 3:51:29 PM , Rating: 4
quote:
The console makers, including Microsoft, have pushed for international legislation banning modding, which they say is driving piracy.


quote:
Recently, Microsoft has been working hard to keep a tighter grip on its Xbox revenue stream, following in the example of Apple, Inc. and others. Its new update reportedly will lock out third party storage solutions from the console. Third party storage typically retails for much less that Microsoft's offerings. By locking out its competitors, Microsoft likely is hoping to tack on more earnings to its already substantial stream from the Xbox.


Reader1, here ya go. A closed platform is all about making more money by increasing restrictions and limiting choice. That's Apple for you.




RE: It's all about the money....
By sprockkets on 11/11/2009 3:56:16 PM , Rating: 2
How else is Microsoft going to overcome the 2.1 billion dollars it lost on the Xbox and other stuff in the entertainment category in 2007 :)


RE: It's all about the money....
By JuPO5b4REqAYbSPUlMcP on 11/11/2009 3:59:05 PM , Rating: 4
My not releasing a console that RROD's?


RE: It's all about the money....
By Mitch101 on 11/11/2009 4:09:34 PM , Rating: 1
Its called Jasper and you can tell one by the 12.1amp marking on the back.


RE: It's all about the money....
By corduroygt on 11/11/2009 4:08:40 PM , Rating: 1
Replacing RROD with E74 doesn't count as fixing it...


RE: It's all about the money....
By Mitch101 on 11/11/2009 4:22:05 PM , Rating: 2
That's 360 version was called Falcon I believe it is also rev2 when microsoft used different memory chips that somehow effected the video scaler chip. It could also happen from a bad video cable.

There are a lot of people who think they have a Jasper but its not.


RE: It's all about the money....
By MrBlastman on 11/12/2009 10:34:04 AM , Rating: 4
But but... I thought it was only PC gamers who pirated games!!!! /sarcasm /end-naivity

Yet again, more evidence that we are unjustly being beaten down as a consumer on the PC platform with intrusive DRM and other crap. Console users would NEVER pirate software! Consoles are a closed platform! Consoles are more controllable and secure!

Hah!

People have been pirating console games for years. This simply shows us that it is actually a _very_ large problem after all and perhaps will allow some developers to reasses their posture on forcing sickening DRM on us PC gamers. We're not so bad... after all.


RE: It's all about the money....
By h0kiez on 11/12/2009 1:04:06 PM , Rating: 1
Not really. Not at all in fact. While 3% is certainly significant, and I don't blame MS for doing this, PC game makers WISH that the piracy rate for their games was 3%. Hell, they probably wish it were 30%. You say people have been pirating console games for years. True. But as an owner of a modded 360, I can tell you that the barriers to entry for playing pirated games on a 360 are WAY higher than on a PC.

I have hated many of EA's decisions just like the rest of you, and it sucks that game makers are ignoring the PC market. I think there are much more creative things they could do to try to capture some dollars from potential-pirate PC gamers, and I wish they would do that, but I can't say I blame them for being generally hostile towards PC gamers from a business standpoint.


By AyashiKaibutsu on 11/12/2009 2:28:15 PM , Rating: 2
They banned 3% of xbox live users. Many people weren't caught and a huge sum more don't use their modded xboxs on live out of free of getting banned. The rates for any given game pirated is most likely much higher than the number of people microsoft was able to detect and ban.


RE: It's all about the money....
By Kurz on 11/12/2009 2:45:52 PM , Rating: 4
Who is to say those 30% of people pirating will actually buy the game?

And who is to say that people that pirate won't buy anything ever?

Sorry too many assumptions are being made.


RE: It's all about the money....
By quiksilvr on 11/11/2009 9:59:01 PM , Rating: 3
Jasper didn't fix all the issues. There are still RROD issues (though much less) and E74 issues. IMO, Microsoft did a great job with Windows 7 and Zune, but 360 was a failure. They had/have so many problems with the console that it simply isn't worth getting.

*What issues?* These issues:
1) Hardware failure rate
2) Ridiculous accessory pricing ($100 for a b/g wireless adapter? Are you high?)
3) Proprietary accessories and hardware (the controller isn't mini USB, the wireless isn't bluetooth, even the plug from the AC adapter to the wall has a weird nub so you can't use the standard AC adapter power cable)
4) $50 a year for online service thats full of annoying advertisements, thereby making the "its cheaper than PS3" argument moot.
5) Exclusives that are just going to end up on the PC anyways (Gears of War, Halo, etc.)
6) No next gen DVD drive, which limits games and RUINS IT FOR PS3 OWNERS (GTA4! It had so much potential but was limited to one city)
7) Non upgradeable hard drive.

And now:
8) controlling tactics to stop the evil modders and their improv-- i mean evil EVIL modding!

You reach a point when enough is enough.


RE: It's all about the money....
By StevoLincolnite on 11/11/2009 10:34:46 PM , Rating: 5
quote:
IMO, Microsoft did a great job with Windows 7 and Zune, but 360 was a failure.


What a load of crap! The Xbox 360 as a "Platform" (Which includes hardware and software) has actually been a really good success.

Microsoft has turned a good profit on the platform as a whole, the games are plentiful, and features are being constantly added, the online service is stable and fast with plenty of users for match making. - That's far from a failure.

I'll break down the following:

quote:
1) Hardware failure rate

Can't argue with you there, not everyone's consoles fail however, mine is going on 2 years without a hitch.

quote:
2) Ridiculous accessory pricing ($100 for a b/g wireless adapter? Are you high?)


That's actually a smart idea on Microsoft's behalf, what it means is that they will be in a better position to drop the price of the consoles, and quickly make up the losses from the consoles with the accessories, it makes good business choice, however you DON'T have to buy those accessories, thus it gives you choice.

quote:
3) Proprietary accessories and hardware (the controller isn't mini USB, the wireless isn't bluetooth, even the plug from the AC adapter to the wall has a weird nub so you can't use the standard AC adapter power cable)


Personally none of that has bothered me, at all, remember it's a console for playing games, not a PC, it's not an Open platform to begin with.

quote:
4) $50 a year for online service thats full of annoying advertisements, thereby making the "its cheaper than PS3" argument moot.


Xbox Live is the best online service out there for the consoles, regardless if you pay for it or not. - Personally I believe it's worth paying for, and the advertisements? It might be because I live in a different region, but the only "Adverts" I have seen have been game related ones, which is the target demographic of the console in the first place.

quote:
5) Exclusives that are just going to end up on the PC anyways (Gears of War, Halo, etc.)


Perhaps, but it does take a long time for the exclusives to appear on the PC anyway, it's been several years since Halo 3 was released and it's still not out on the PC, by that time the hype for playing the game would have died down.

quote:
6) No next gen DVD drive, which limits games and RUINS IT FOR PS3 OWNERS (GTA4! It had so much potential but was limited to one city)


You can call it a limitation all you want, developers still have the choice to use a high amount of compression on the games, plus span it across multiple discs, the DVD drive on the Xbox 360 is also slightly faster than the blue-ray drive on he PS3, which is important for streaming data while you play a game.

Then you have the DLC, GTA IV has already gotten several excellent and large "Expansion Packs" already available over Xbox Live! which Microsoft made a deal for.
Because of the deal Microsoft did, it's then exclusive to the Xbox 360 platform, I believe DLC is the future, it's quick and easy.

quote:
8) controlling tactics to stop the evil modders and their improv-- i mean evil EVIL modding!


Modders can use the advantage that there consoles are hacked and get advantages in games, which is un-fair for everyone else, whats wrong with having them banned in the first place?

I'm all for modders who only mod there console for legitimate reasons like backing up there game collection etc' - But those who use it to get an advantage in an online game should be banned.

One issue I do have with the Xbox 360 is simply the crappy D-Pad on the controller, ever played a platform fighter game with that thing? It's a pain in the rear!


RE: It's all about the money....
By quiksilvr on 11/13/2009 12:59:27 PM , Rating: 2
2) How is it a smart idea for price gouging accessories? Yeah, you choose NOT to get the accessories but the point of accessories are to expand what you're console can do! Setting that price is insulting, not to mention the prices of HDDs.

3) And proprietary accessories ARE a serious issue. With the 360 having Facebook and other social network apps, it is essential to have a keyboard (maybe even a mouse). If the console had Bluetooth or simply allowed USB keyboard/mouse connections, you wouldn't be limited to what Microsoft provides. Furthermore, this is an online gaming console. The options for wireless headsets are extremely limited because it doesn't have Bluetooth.

4) Xbox Live is a great service, but that wasn't my point. It should either be FREE with all the advertisements they are putting up, or you pay $50 a year and the advertisements go away. What they're doing is double dipping (just like cable, I'm glad I have DVR and can just fast forward).

5) My point is that if the exclusives end up on the most common gaming platform (PC), what's the point in getting the console? Sure you have to wait, but these exclusives aren't exactly ZOMG MUST HAVE (Call of Duty 4 > Halo 3, the numbers don't lie. Mass Effect, Bioshock was on PC at launch, and Gears of War is on PC now too)

6) And I stand by what I said. GTA IV was a big step forward in online, but a major step back in the campaign. Yes the story is better and the city has a lot more going on, but imagine what it COULD have been. Remember San Andreas? You had three major cities with rural counties in between. From huge mountains to sand dunes, there was such a VAST variety of surroundings and more things to do. In GTA IV, because of the deal they had with Microsoft, they were FORCED to limit it to one city because they couldn't fit anymore onto the DVD. Its a prime example of holding back. Gaming is about pushing things to the limit, and that limit is being brought down because Microsoft didn't plan ahead. They didn't plan ahead on checking their hardware. They didn't plan ahead on their SKUs (one without a HDD). They didn't plan ahead on having HDMI (though there probably aren't a lot of people with a non-HDMI console due to the hardware issues).

And finally
8) If modders are using their mods to hack the system and give an unfair advantage during online play, then just ban THEM. Don't ban every single damn modder.


RE: It's all about the money....
By Hiawa23 on 11/12/09, Rating: 0
RE: It's all about the money....
By Mitch101 on 11/12/2009 10:08:59 AM , Rating: 2
Going to point out something that I haven't read here.

Microsoft banned at least 600,000 people. I hear its closer to 1,000,000. Microsoft still gets $3.00 a month from the pirates who now cant use something they paid for unless they buy a new console.

I would bet by doing this Microsoft just sold 200,000 of the Arcade 360 consoles to recently banned pirates. Since everyone likes to brag about console sales numbers Microsoft just found a way to boost them. Sure they will lose some people to the PS3 but these are people who dont want to pay for any games. Not a real loss for Microsoft is it? This could put pressure to mod the PS3 and Sony would lose out if all the pirates go to the PS3 camp because console sales lose money. They try to make it in games but we know that Microsoft actually makes a profit on each 360 sold. I dont believe PS3 console sales make Sony any money yet. They need to sell games to make money and these are pirates were talking about.

As for you other stuff.
The 360 is hardly a failure.

Windows 7 Rocks. This is a no brainer it will do extremely well.

Zune HD wont go far enough because there is no good marketing of the device. Microsoft would be betting on Windows Mobile 7 which merges the Zune HD into the phone thats where the real money will be. Im sure iPhone sales are much better than iPod sales. The days of dedicated MP3 players are coming to an end. Most people have phones and most phones can play MP3's. Why carry two devices?


RE: It's all about the money....
By Fracture on 11/12/2009 10:23:50 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Microsoft banned at least 600,000 people. I hear its closer to 1,000,000.


The real suprise is they claim this is the answer to piracy, and not more than 600,000 reasons why Microsoft is wrong . If this many people feel the need to change your product, maybe you should look into how you screwed it up.

IMO, when you buy something you are legally entitled to decide how to use it and you are entitled to use any software you desire on purchased hardware.


RE: It's all about the money....
By invidious on 11/12/09, Rating: 0
RE: It's all about the money....
By Mitch101 on 11/12/2009 10:19:27 AM , Rating: 3
I have not seen anyone with a Jasper get RROD or E74. Like I said a lot of people believed they had a Jasper. A lot of those people who reported E74 had a Falcon not Jasper. I'm not saying it doesn't/can't happen but the numbers are very low on Jasper which is why for the last year Microsoft hasn't replaced/redesigned the Jasper unit and its over a year old. If the problems still persisted we would have seen a Jasper Rev 2 or another redesign to resolve the issues.

If there is this massive Jasper failure rate please link me to the source confirming this because I see nothing but people with PS3 spreading the FUD.


RE: It's all about the money....
By weskurtz0081 on 11/11/2009 4:47:46 PM , Rating: 3
I don't know, how is Sony planning on over coming the BILLIONS lost on the PS3 so far?


RE: It's all about the money....
By The0ne on 11/11/2009 9:54:26 PM , Rating: 2
Eh? PS3? PSP yes, PS3 I don't think so.


By weskurtz0081 on 11/11/2009 11:35:04 PM , Rating: 2
You don't think what? You don't think they have lost Billions on the PS3?


RE: It's all about the money....
By Hiawa23 on 11/11/2009 4:32:32 PM , Rating: 5
Am I the only one who really doesn't have an issue with this. I play my consoles the way they were intendid, so this affects me little at all. Funny thing is my boss came in last week & said his teenage son was going to get his Xbox modded so he could download games & play em for free. It's clear he had no idea what his son wanted to do cause before I explained to him what that meant & what his son was trying to do, & what MS would do if he did do that, which went against his Catholic values he put a stop to that, had I said nothing he would have not known. To add to this story he came in today & said his buddies who modded theirs who were also going to mod his sons were banned, & said it was the right thing to do for his son cause it just wasn't right, & he and his son thanked me.

Hey, I am not bashing anyone, do what you want, I have never been into modding or anything like that, but why wouldn't a company do that, if you are costing them money or other? Look at how Sony has been trying to keep up with all the mods going on with the PSP.


RE: It's all about the money....
By Bruneauinfo on 11/11/2009 4:46:24 PM , Rating: 2
that would be a rhetorical question.


RE: It's all about the money....
By xti on 11/11/2009 5:28:30 PM , Rating: 2
props


RE: It's all about the money....
By Glix on 11/11/09, Rating: 0
By Newspapercrane on 11/11/2009 7:52:30 PM , Rating: 4
Microsoft didn't brick the consoles... that would have been wrong. All they did was ban them from xbox live. Xbox Live is a service, and Microsoft has the right to refuse service to anyone they choose, especially if they are breaking the EULA.


RE: It's all about the money....
By yangyoning on 11/11/2009 8:18:02 PM , Rating: 4
Isn't he a kinky type who loves to be restrain and bonded (by restriction) lolz

I think he is waiting for this to happen sir


RE: It's all about the money....
By scrapsma54 on 11/11/2009 9:35:30 PM , Rating: 2
At least Microsoft learned a better approach to this situation where as apple would prefer that you waste $200 and brick-off?


RE: It's all about the money....
By lewislink on 11/11/2009 10:28:05 PM , Rating: 2
If it wasn't for the HDD lockout...not allowing a cheaper alternative upgrade...then I would have wholeheartedly agreed with what MS is doing, and might have bought an XBOX someday. But i just can't abide greed.


RE: It's all about the money....
By paulzebo on 11/12/2009 11:25:46 AM , Rating: 2
So to eliminate the argument of "legit" reasons to mod a box, how about a law that requires all these software vendors, including Microsoft, to replace scratched/damaged disks at any retail outlet for a $3.00 fee. That would cover their costs and put some teeth into their argument. But I think you're right. They want the full boat on pricing in their monopolized world.


By Belard on 11/11/2009 5:50:30 PM , Rating: 4
I bet most of those people won't bother to buy another xbox, maybe forever.

Let's see...

PS3, things you can DO, but can't do on a 360:

1 - Use any USB flash key to store data ($10 = 4GB vs $35 for 512mb whatever)

2 - No Account Fees.

3 - Upgrade / buy any new size notebook drive you want. 250GB, 500GB, 1-TB (when it comes out)... since the 360 is BIOS locked to 120GB.

4 - PS includes a backup tool - to an external USB HD for ALL your content.

5 - Wireless Ethernet included.

6 - NO RODD, quite optical drive, Blu-Ray for HD-movies.

7 - Not a microsoft product.




By Alexstarfire on 11/11/2009 7:28:50 PM , Rating: 5
Ok, apart from #5 and #7 I don't understand how he is a fanboy. Posting facts makes you a fanboy now? I don't like the PS3 or 360 and even I know he's right.


By RyuDeshi on 11/12/2009 5:24:59 AM , Rating: 5
Why #5? That is a legitimate fact too. There is no built-in wireless on Xbox.


By therealnickdanger on 11/12/2009 12:04:59 PM , Rating: 3
Hardly moot. It is included with the price of the PS3 and doesn't use up one of the USB ports. The 360 wi-fi adapter is almost $100 (after tax or shipping) and uses up one of the 3 USB ports. I'm happy that I bought my wi-fi adapter on craigslist. I didn't save much money, but at least Microsoft did get it. I'm not opposed to buying their products, I just don't like getting f*cked in the *ss with a pineapple.


By Belard on 11/12/2009 2:19:55 PM , Rating: 2
It would be a moot point if the added wireless for the 360 was free. But $100 is 1/2~1/3 the price of the whole console. A part that is about $25~50 for anything else.

OKAY, on newegg:
PS3 (Slim) with 120GB HD = $300 ($350 for 250GB version)
360 Elite = $300. Need the wireless? $80 for G, $100 for N version.

Total cost = $380~400.


By jconan on 11/12/2009 1:10:47 AM , Rating: 2
that's if you keep it inside a nonventing cabinet since it takes longer to cool down the system because of less air, in ambient open air, it's pretty quiet.


By thekdub on 11/12/2009 8:42:38 PM , Rating: 2
I've got my mid/late 2008-spec 80GB on an open shelf with a foot or two of space behind it (its in a corner). Its not too bad when I'm watching an exciting movie or playing a game, but during the quiet parts its quite noticeable even from ~10 feet, although I've become used to it. Easily as loud as my old fat PS2.

Not sure why my original post got rated down though. Its not like I was bashing the system, just pointing out that its a little noisy.


By therealnickdanger on 11/12/2009 12:14:25 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
1. With my 120GB drive, I never, ever...

Between all my DLC and installed games, I've used almost 2/3s of my Elite's storage space. I see now that the new Modern Warfare 2 360 bundle has a 250GB HDD... I wonder how much that SKU will be on its own - $229?? sheesh...
quote:
2. Live and the Arcade games are really good. Haven't tried the PS3 online...

PSN has a lot of great games to buy. The majority of Live Arcade games are also on PSN, but each has its own exclusives.
quote:
3. I'd much rather have a standalone Blu-Ray player...

The PS3 is actually perfectly capable as a standalone BD player - even compared with "high end" players. It's still regarded as one of the best BD players you can buy, especially when you factor in its ability to stream content from a PC, now with the ability to stream Netflix, plus its web browser lets you watch other online video content. It dominates the 360 in this regard.
quote:
4. I've never had a RROD...

Lucky you. ;-)


By scrapsma54 on 11/11/2009 9:46:05 PM , Rating: 5
I rather sell my Xbox than my ps3 is because there isn't much you can do with the 360. The 360 is still a toy, where as the ps3 gives you access to every bit of technology available and use any peripheral of your choosing from no matter the branding.
Xbox is for games, but Ps3 is for everything.


By Motoman on 11/11/2009 3:40:21 PM , Rating: 1
So sure about that I would not be.

http://consumerist.com/5402056/xbox-gamer-says-he-...




By Mitch101 on 11/11/2009 4:08:07 PM , Rating: 2
Someone in the threads made a very good point which I would believe occurred.

quote:
Maybe the HDD that he had bought is a return, and someone put a mod on there before they returned it, then he just so happened to buy that same HDD.


I wouldn't put it past best buy to have done that.


By Motoman on 11/11/2009 4:12:52 PM , Rating: 2
Maybe I'm missing something, but I think the mod has to be to the actual XBox hardware itself - not something installled on a hard drive.


By stubeck on 11/11/2009 4:42:28 PM , Rating: 2
You aren't, it is to the DVD drive to allow it to play DVD+R DL discs. This is why they have banned people, because if you haven't updated to the latest release, MS can see that you are running a copied disc and will ban your account for it.


By xioxio on 11/11/2009 4:39:55 PM , Rating: 2
I don't think HDD that caused him/her to be banned since you can always delete things that are on the HDD. I think it's the firmware, software, and OS on the xbox that can disable the DRM and enable pirated games to be playable.


By Richardito on 11/11/2009 5:10:04 PM , Rating: 2
What they mod is the firmware of the DVD drive. The Achile's Heel of the XBox 360 is that the security sectors are read and verified by the DVD drive itself and not the XBox. So if you trick the DVD drive to say "Everything's OK" to the XBox main board the copied game will run. That's how they 'mod' the XBox 360.


By Hakuryu on 11/11/2009 4:14:44 PM , Rating: 1
You are assuming he is telling the truth.

He said he replaced his HDD with a larger one made by MS for the system, and many people are calling foul for banning for that type of modding, but at least 2 of my buddies have done the same thing and they didn't get banned, so I don't think a change in HDD is the cause.

That leaves the most likely culprit - firmware that doesn't match released versions or checksums. Sure he could have got a refurbished one and had no idea it was modded, but I find that unlikely with his knowledge.

If I couldn't suddenly play online I'd be complaining and shouting my innocence also... even if all I played were pirated games (which I don't). I highly doubt we will see one post anywhere like "Ok MS, you got me, I've got an illegally modded 360".


By stubeck on 11/11/2009 4:41:14 PM , Rating: 2
The people who got banned are most likely ones who tried to run MW2 on their 360. This one came with a different "wave" which was easily detectable by MS. Ironically, if they had just waited till release day, they would have known this, and they also would have been able to patch their DVD drive and not gotten banned.


It's not users, it's consoles
By corduroygt on 11/11/2009 3:41:58 PM , Rating: 2
Microsoft bans consoles from going on live, not users. The banned console user can get a new xbox 360 and connect with their gamertag and recover it just fine.




RE: It's not users, it's consoles
By Belard on 11/11/2009 5:45:22 PM , Rating: 3
How many of these people are willing to go spend another $200~300 for a whole new console?

What about all the content on the previous unit? Unlike SONY - xbox doesn't exactly have a transfer / backup product.

Yeah.. go out and spend mom's $300 or work for another 10~30hrs to buy a new console.


RE: It's not users, it's consoles
By DM0407 on 11/11/09, Rating: 0
RE: It's not users, it's consoles
By Belard on 11/11/2009 7:13:09 PM , Rating: 2
As a kid... Either your MOM (or dad) is going to buy it, or the person (kid / modder / whatever) is going to have to work 10~30hrs, depending on how much he gets paid working at McDonalds or sells crack.

Yeah... $130 for a used system that most likely has RROD and other issues.


RE: It's not users, it's consoles
By twhittet on 11/11/2009 7:06:44 PM , Rating: 2
Many of them are very likely to buy another xbox - whether new or from Ebay. Modders are not typically "casual" gamers. If they worked THAT hard to mod a 360, they'll probably work just as hard to get another one in order to play again. Great way for Microsoft to make money though!


RE: It's not users, it's consoles
By StevoLincolnite on 11/11/2009 10:45:13 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
How many of these people are willing to go spend another $200~300 for a whole new console?


You don't have to spend that much, just sell your old console to recover some of the costs, then buy a second hand console, would work out significantly cheaper in my eyes.

quote:
What about all the content on the previous unit? Unlike SONY - xbox doesn't exactly have a transfer / backup product.


You have several options there, the Hard Disk drive is easily accessible, un-plug it and plug it into the new console.

If your new console has the same-size or larger HDD, then you can call Microsoft and they will send you a Transfer cable to transfer your data from one drive to the other.

quote:
Yeah.. go out and spend mom's $300 or work for another 10~30hrs to buy a new console.


You lost all respect from me when you resorted to "Mother" jokes.


RE: It's not users, it's consoles
By Belard on 11/12/2009 2:15:39 PM , Rating: 2
Sometimes my "serious" posts and non serious parts to it.

But alas... if a modded player is a 13yr old who doesn't have a job. How is he goin to replace his 360 but to yell "Moooooooooooooooooooommmmm!"?

About the "transfer / backup" part.

MS sends out a free cable? And what about the BACKUP part? With the sony, any USB drive-cage/cable to a HD will work for backing up content.


More modding
By R6Raven on 11/11/2009 3:59:09 PM , Rating: 2
I predict a matter of weeks (if not days) until there's a mod for modifying your MAC address/serial number that XBL can not detect and then MS is out the time and money spent in banning them in the first place.




RE: More modding
By tastyratz on 11/11/2009 4:18:16 PM , Rating: 2
eh,
this has been a cat and mouse game since the 360 first came out. personally I am just surprised by the sheer numbers... 600k users? That's quite a sum. Hope they were right with that many modded consoles - I would have predicted it to be more niche in total (nevermind considering only the users who go online)


RE: More modding
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 11/11/2009 5:16:29 PM , Rating: 3
Given how rampant PS2 modding was, 600k sounds fairly low.


RE: More modding
By Alexstarfire on 11/11/2009 7:24:57 PM , Rating: 1
I don't believe that using a Game Shark thing to play pirated games counts as modding.


"OWNED"
By walk2k on 11/11/2009 6:49:36 PM , Rating: 2
I believe, is the term.




RE: "OWNED"
By sdsdv10 on 11/11/2009 6:57:47 PM , Rating: 3
gee, I thought it was "pwned" :P


RE: "OWNED"
By DM0407 on 11/11/2009 7:05:58 PM , Rating: 2
Maybe he has a gambling problem. There are better things to bet on.


Great...
By PipeStanK on 11/11/2009 4:01:51 PM , Rating: 3
I wonder how many people will be duped into buying banned consoles now on ebay or craigslist... just in time for the holiday rush too.




RE: Great...
By PipeStanK on 11/11/2009 4:52:10 PM , Rating: 3
I guess this answers my own question:

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13772_3-10395644-52.html

There is a silver lining to this however... look how many cheap media extenders are now available. Thank you Microsoft!


Banned Console Information
By gigahertz20 on 11/11/2009 5:53:40 PM , Rating: 5
Found out what banned consoles cannot do:

http://paste2.org/p/506116

What does this mean for you and what can you do about it?

Firstly, and most obviously, you cannot connect to Xbox Live on this console any more. This means no more game updates (aka title updates), XBLA games, marketplace content, netflix/sky player and so on. There is no way around this, all online capabilities are now disabled PERMANENTLY.

In all likelihood, your gamertag has NOT BEEN BANNED. When your gamertag gets banned, Microsoft sends you an email detailing why, if you have not recieved this email then your profile should be ok, to a certain extent.

Hard Drive installs are now disabled on the banned console. This means any disk-based games you have will no longer play off of the hard drive. If you attempt to play a game, it will tell you that it was installed on a different 360 and needs to be deleted/installed again. When you delete the game and attempt to install it, you are given a message telling you that it is not supported. There is no way to fix this, that functionality is simply gone from the banned 360.

The hard drive itself is left untouched - you can place it in another 360, even an unbanned one, and it will still work just fine. You do NOT need to reformat it to regain any kind of functionality. Any installed games will need to be reinstalled for the console you want to play them on. This is normal behaviour and happens when swapping HDDs on unbanned/legit 360's.

Some people report that Windows Media Centre functionality is disabled, however others are still able to access it fine. It is still possible to stream video/music content via the video library in both cases.

Your Gamertag may be corrupted. This does not mean your gamertag has been banned, you can recover it using any live-capable 360, however ANY ACHIVEMENTS YOU HAVE EARNED SINCE BEING BANNED WILL BE LOST. Your gamertag will be corrupted EVERY SINGLE TIME it is used on a banned console. This means you cannot use your banned console to play backups offline just to get achievements - it wont work, the second you put your profile back on a good 360, it will be corrupted and all progress lost. There is no way around this.

The same applies to game saves - if you access a game save on a banned 360, it too will be corrupted when accessed on a legit/unbanned 360! YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED! There is no way around this, either.

Your XBLA games and DLC will still be valid, however to play them on a different 360 you will need to be signed into Xbox Live. This is normal behaviour on unbanned/legit 360's as well. They may be corrupted and have to be re-downloaded if you attempt to access them on a banned 360. You can transfer all of your downloaded content to a new 360 here: http://www.xbox.com/en-US/support/systemuse/xbox36... however note that you can only do it once every 12 months.

So, in summary your Banned 360:
* Cannot go on Xbox Live
* Cannot install games to the HDD
* Cannot use Windows Media Centre extender
* Cannot be used to get achievements from backups without corrupting your profile

You cannot do anything about this, short of buying a new 360.

There may be more functionality disabled than mentioned here, things are still being discovered.




New business plan - BanLive
By Janooo on 11/11/2009 5:36:34 PM , Rating: 2
Hello,
I am looking for investors for the BanLive.
Let's prepare an alternative to the Xbox Live.
The market is there. Who is with me?




RE: New business plan - BanLive
By Hiawa23 on 11/12/2009 3:22:13 PM , Rating: 2
Hello,
I am looking for investors for the BanLive.
Let's prepare an alternative to the Xbox Live.
The market is there. Who is with me?

no thanks, LIVE has been great for me.


MSNBC article...
By CZroe on 11/12/2009 5:45:58 AM , Rating: 2
I've heard that MS will unban an XBOX if you bought it used and call a rep. You might have to prove it, but is it really that easy?

I read the MSNBC article about the recent wave of bannings claiming that it was up to 1 million or will be by the holidays. They have a quote of someone saying that they are affecting less than 1% of their consoles with the ban but far more users with the amount of banned consoles entering the second-hand market.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33866696/ns/technology...

Umm, last I checked, 1M banned consoles is only 1% if you have sold 100M consoles. They haven't done that. At best, they've sold a third of that. Also, this is nowhere near the first wave of bannings, so it will likely be much higher than 1M total once this round finishes.




RE: MSNBC article...
By Devo2007 on 11/12/2009 6:33:49 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
I've heard that MS will unban an XBOX if you bought it used and call a rep. You might have to prove it, but is it really that easy?


Nope, once a console is banned, it's banned permanently no matter what. Microsoft has stated this in their forums as well.

In other words, buying a used XBox = buyer beware (and normally the warranty is not transferable either).


New buisness plan - BanLive
By Janooo on 11/11/2009 5:35:44 PM , Rating: 3
Hello,
I am looking for investors for the BanLive.
Let's prepare an alternative to the Xbox Live.
The market is there. Who is with me?




There is a Fine Line here
By GruntboyX on 11/11/2009 11:20:29 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
The console makers, including Microsoft, have pushed for international legislation banning modding, which they say is driving piracy.


I have no problem, Microsoft banning modder's from Xbox-Live. Its not right that people play pirated games, and it helps control cheaters. However, there is a fine line. I purchased the hardware and I should have the right to modify it to do what ever I want. If I want to load 3rd party operation systems and applications, If I want to modify the case to improve reliability and performance, If I want to turn it inside out and re-purpose the blasted thing into a toilet seat that flashes a red ring when i flush. I should have the right to do any of these things as long as I am not causing harm to Microsoft's network and Not aiding and embedding in the piracy of content.

As a side note, there needs to be a way to have managed copies of games. It would help legitimize the process of backing up and protecting your purchases while at the same time protecting content providers rights. I welcome digital distribution as a solution to this. The down side is I send all my personal information to a 3rd party and allow them to "track" my purchases and habbits. Its like. buying a car that never comes home and is always parked at the dealers lot. Not perfect, but better than nothing I suppose.




RE: There is a Fine Line here
By Hiawa23 on 11/12/2009 9:08:16 AM , Rating: 2
I have no problem, Microsoft banning modder's from Xbox-Live. Its not right that people play pirated games, and it helps control cheaters. However, there is a fine line. I purchased the hardware and I should have the right to modify it to do what ever I want. If I want to load 3rd party operation systems and applications, If I want to modify the case to improve reliability and performance, If I want to turn it inside out and re-purpose the blasted thing into a toilet seat that flashes a red ring when i flush. I should have the right to do any of these things as long as I am not causing harm to Microsoft's network and Not aiding and embedding in the piracy of content.

You have every right to do with your console as you wish, all MS is saying is when you mod which leads to piracy costs them money so if you do this you aren't getting on our network with that console. Simple as thatright or wrong.

Mod until you are blue in the face but just know that comes with consequences. No one is saying you can't mod, but these are the consequences if you do & they detect that you have done this. If that is a problem just buy a PS3 Wii or just go the PC route. It is what it is.


I have a problem
By ThePooBurner on 11/12/2009 11:07:37 AM , Rating: 1
with this:
quote:
The console makers, including Microsoft, have pushed for international legislation banning modding, which they say is driving piracy.


If we own the hardware, what we do with it is our own business. Banning modding an x-box (making it against the law) is no different than making it against the law to mod your car. NOTE: THIS IS DIFFERENT THAN BANNING THEM FROM THEIR NETWORK WHICH HAS AN EULA AND TOS. The former is changing law to allow the arrest and punishment of people for making changes, the second is simply keeping cheaters off their network. The second is allowable. It's their network, they set the rules. The first, however, is not allowable. To suggest that we cannot modify and change the hardware we own as we see fit is utterly ridiculous.




RE: I have a problem
By ThePooBurner on 11/12/2009 11:16:43 AM , Rating: 2
As a side now, i couldn't care less about the bannings. I do not own an xbox and never will. I only have a problem with their stance on the legality of modding the hardware.

Here is how i see is:
Modding Car - FINE
modding xbox - FINE
using modded car to smuggle drugs - NOT FINE
using modded xbox to break the law - NOT FINE

Do we see the difference here?


How did they catch them?
By gigahertz20 on 11/11/2009 5:44:31 PM , Rating: 2
I wonder how they were able to find out how all these people were using modded X-Box's? Does your X-Box constantly send information about itself to Microsoft or something?




This happened when Halo 3 came out.
By far327 on 11/11/2009 5:48:17 PM , Rating: 2
This happened when Halo 3 came out, just in smaller numbers. Any HUGE release that Microsoft and publishers plan to make an enormous profit on will be headed by a update from XBL that contains tracking software in order to catch those greedy modders that jumped online with there burned copy of MW2 before the release date of the game. It's an easy way for MS to identify who has a modded console, and who doesn't. This way their blacklists are fairly accurate. In fact, Halo3 was leaked on purpose weeks before the release date. Wouldn't suprise me if the same happened with MW2, though I have been out of the modding scene for about a year. With Halo3 the numbered banned was much smaller. 600,000!! That just goes to show how popular modding consoles has become!

And unfortunately, those poor people out there who buy modded consoles aren't just gonna jump on to XBL and not have any problems. They will be banned too. Since the DVD drive firmware is modified in order to play modded games, XBL will see this over there networks and ban the new owner of the console. It will take some serious bouting with there customer service to get back on XBL, which may be near impossible.




By DarthKaos on 11/11/2009 5:51:45 PM , Rating: 2
Why not notify all the people who got banned in a more detailed way. Why not state that the users were banned because MS detected that their Xbox 360 was modified to play copied games or something like that. Why have people log in and get such a generic message.

Next have a special number to call so the general support lines are not jammed. If MS is so confident in there method for detecting the MOD they would just need to put a recording in place that states the reason for the ban and then they give a website and or mailing address and instructions on how to send the Xbox in to be checked if the person feels they have been wrongly banned.

None of these things are overly complicated or costly. It just shows how much MS cares about it's customers. To MS people are just walking cattle with dollar signs for heads.




Bans = revenue
By MicrosoftSUX on 11/11/2009 5:59:09 PM , Rating: 2
What's the best way to sell an extra half-million consoles this holiday season? Ban 600,000 of them!

Here's the problem with that theory Microsoft -- at least half of the modders that go out and purchase new consoles will return their old banned consoles (after swapping the guts -- that way the case serial numbers will match the register receipt).

So Microsoft may succeed in selling an extra 500k consoles, but they'll also take another uppercut to the chin with the amount of "defective" consoles that will be returned to retailers this holiday season. I wonder which one of their rocket scientist employees thought this all the way through?

I am not an advocate of piracy. In fact, I've been involved with technology, software and IP for the last 20 years.

That said, I endorse modding -- because it is the only means by which a customer/user can make and play backups of the games they purchase -- at the current time.

DVD movies are a different subject, because you can make backups of them with simple software like AnyDVD and DVDshrink (among others), and you don't need to "mod" your DVD player to watch the backups.

Making backups of one's property is critical -- but only because software & movie companies don't offer a free replacement service for damaged discs. It is not a question of if, but rather of when a disc will get scratched or cracked. Have you ever tried to look at your DVD movie case to find a phone number to call to get a replacement disc after your 6-year old scratches the 3rd purchased copy of Toy Story? Forget it! You can't. These companies make it that way so you will have no choice but to go out and buy another copy of the movie/game.




Banning is just stupid
By emfronza on 11/11/2009 9:11:06 PM , Rating: 2
Well, eventually Microsoft will loose money by banning modded users from Live. Because even people with modded consoles would still buy content and pay the subscription to use the MS Live. And 600,000+ were probably spending a good amount of money on Live.
I think that voiding this crappy console's warranty by modding it, is enough punishment for it's users. :-)




By mattclary on 11/12/2009 8:03:44 AM , Rating: 2
Excellent way to lose some customers!




By lewislink on 11/12/2009 6:21:54 PM , Rating: 1
I think I might be in a minority, but this pleases me. I am glad to see the guilty actually having to suffer for their offenses rather than continue to think they are smarter than the system and can get away with whatever they please.

This apparently is so fool-proof that some are having to resort to pleading innocence because all other methods of subverting the system have failed.

Right on, Microsoft!

If you are a decent minded, law abiding citizen and have to suffer for it, stuff like this really brings some relief.




By R6Raven on 11/11/2009 4:52:17 PM , Rating: 2
Not at all. $36/year is very fair. Even $60/year is fair if you ask me. I can spend more than that on a dinner/movie in one night. I don't think they should be criticized because they offer something desirable and happen to make a ton of money off it.


By Entropy42 on 11/11/2009 5:13:41 PM , Rating: 2
Of those 20 million, the article doesn't specify that they are all Gold subscribers. Maybe they are, but I would assume it includes the free Silver account that all xbox's can get.


By Reclaimer77 on 11/11/2009 5:25:38 PM , Rating: 2
???

Microsoft spend over a billion just getting X-Box live off the ground. THEY own the servers and all the hardware, not to mention the bandwith it costs to run such a thing.

Who the hell are you to say they shouldn't be making a profit off it ?


Modding
By DrApop on 11/11/09, Rating: -1
RE: Modding
By ClownPuncher on 11/11/2009 4:07:56 PM , Rating: 2
See EULA and TOS. Your analagoies don't fit this situation. Microsoft has every right to control what goes on with their network. You can mod your xbox all day long if you want, just don't expect Microsoft to allow you to use their network.


RE: Modding
By Performance Fanboi on 11/11/2009 4:06:09 PM , Rating: 4
They aren't banning them from using their 'cars' (modded Xboxes) - they are no longer allowing them on their own 'track' (XBL).


RE: Modding
By xioxio on 11/11/2009 4:53:44 PM , Rating: 2
There are things that are mod-able and things that aren't suppose to be mod. You can mod the skin/cover of your Xbox as you like, get different capacity HDD. But you can't mod something for it to be able to do something illegal. There are always regulations on how far you can mod things. You can mod your car how ever you want, but it just have to be street legal if you want to drive it on the street.

From what you said, you're saying that you'll be alright if you're using a software that have worms and/or trojan horse embedded in the software. They modded the program as they like didn't they?


RE: Modding
By lewislink on 11/13/2009 10:54:57 AM , Rating: 1
Well..for one simple thing, modding affects other people in this instance. What is the purpose of modding, and what is the ban about? Use your noodle and realize there are other people who exist in the world. Stop thinking only about yourself.


6 Million
By Thorsen on 11/11/09, Rating: -1
RE: 6 Million
By Motoman on 11/11/2009 4:12:20 PM , Rating: 4
Don't worry - I'm sure they'll keep billing them.


RE: 6 Million
By Jalek on 11/11/2009 4:14:46 PM , Rating: 2
Doesn't make a lot of sense for them, but I'm sure the publishers that aren't in that revenue stream appreciate it.


RE: 6 Million
By Bal on 11/11/2009 4:23:56 PM , Rating: 2
Actually makes perfect sense if I understand all this correctly. They ban the user and console, close the account and get to keep all the prepaid months. They write the prepaid amount on those accounts directly into their ledger this month/quarter. All those people will just open another user name and pay AGAIN.

MS get double payment from the hackers for all prepaid months (which most people due since its cheaper that way).

Its a GREAT plan, pays for itself. Win win for MS.


RE: 6 Million
By Cheesew1z69 on 11/11/2009 4:26:51 PM , Rating: 2
I don't believe it's 10 a month....


RE: 6 Million
By Mitch101 on 11/11/2009 4:31:48 PM , Rating: 2
$36.00 12 month card.
http://www.buy.com/retail/product.asp?sku=21108690...

Where did he get $10.00 a month?

$3.00 a month is a good deal considering all the download-able content especially trials.


RE: 6 Million
By Thorsen on 11/11/2009 4:51:42 PM , Rating: 2
I think when I was looking it was $7 per month. I was not aware of the 12mo plan..... Huge exaggeration on my part...Sorry


RE: 6 Million
By Thorsen on 11/11/2009 4:55:56 PM , Rating: 2
As for the math....
This would be $4.2 million per month.... not 6mil

but if all 600,000 buy a new console? at $200
thats $120 million

I wonder how many people will go to the PS3 or if un-modding a console is possible.....


RE: 6 Million
By BruceLeet on 11/11/2009 6:16:12 PM , Rating: 2
Doubt its possible, they've verified these modded consoles. A hardware ID so that console is locked out of XBL indefinitely.


RE: 6 Million
By Alexstarfire on 11/12/2009 12:36:51 AM , Rating: 2
I've really been wondering how this ties in to privacy. I assume somewhere in the EULA and/or ToS agreement that you allow them to look at things on your console, but is it legal for them to do something like this?

Doesn't matter to me since I don't have a 360, nor ever will, but I've always been curious.


sad day
By Randomblame on 11/11/09, Rating: -1
RE: sad day
By NA1NSXR on 11/11/2009 5:29:11 PM , Rating: 1
F you, on behalf of all the adults that actually create value for a living instead of consuming their way through life, you can take your sense of entitlement and shove it. You kids are already considered mentally retarded compared to your foreign peers, so why don't you try applying some of this fervor to something other than your fing xbox.

Man, nothing pisses me off more than hearing something like "I will do what I want with what belongs to me!". It is freaking hard to believe we are only two generations removed from those who gave it all for what we enjoy today.


RE: sad day
By twhittet on 11/11/2009 7:10:08 PM , Rating: 3
Hey - the dude can have a sense of entitlement - he can do whatever he wants to the 360. Going online for multiplayer though is entirely different - and modders (often cheaters) should definitely be banned.


RE: sad day
By Alexstarfire on 11/11/09, Rating: 0
RE: sad day
By artemicion on 11/11/2009 8:08:00 PM , Rating: 2
Yes, essentially both Microsoft and the government can tell you what you can and can't do with the things you buy.

The government can tell you you can't use the groceries you bought to manufacture crystal meth.
The government can tell you that you can't shove that carrot into someone's eye.
The government can tell you that you can't use the gun you bought to shoot a hole in someone's skull.
The government can tell you you can't do a lot of things that you may like to do with the things that you bought. Welcome to society!

Similarly, most sophisticated consumers know that you can buy or sell things with certain strings attached. I can sell you my house on the condition that you never install a pool in the back (unless some state/municipal law prohibits that restriction). Microsoft can sell you a 12 month subscription on Xbox Live with the restriction that you never mod your xbox. And the thing that really riles consumers up: software companies can LICENSE software to you with the CONTRACTUAL CONDITION that you never copy, back up, or use it in any manner that they don't want you to do. Welcome to the free market, capitalist society, where you are pretty much free to enter into a CONTRACT with whatever terms and conditions the other person agrees to.


RE: sad day
By mcnabney on 11/11/2009 8:39:52 PM , Rating: 1
Microsoft may have a problem with this.

First, there are contractual issues when dealing with a devices and services purchased by a minor.
Second, Early Termination Fees for cell phones that are backed by a signed legal contract that was fully disclosed in advance have been thrown out by courts in California. There is no notification involved here and tedious EULAs are thrown out all the time, especially when the person clicking 'yes' is 14.
Third, the EULA itself may get overturned since it appears to clearly violate Fair Use since you are LEGALLY entitled to make a backup of a physical medium that you own. If they can prove actual piracy (unlicensed game) they might have a leg to stand on.
Fourth, this is why PCs make the best platform. There isn't one company that profits from all future software purchases (console makers get a fee from game developers which does not occur on the PC) and has a financial incentive to bully their user base.


RE: sad day
By Devo2007 on 11/12/2009 4:27:21 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Third, the EULA itself may get overturned since it appears to clearly violate Fair Use since you are LEGALLY entitled to make a backup of a physical medium that you own


This statement is false, because it doesn't factor circumventing copy protection into the "legally entitled" category. As a matter of fact, there is a law that strictly prohibits circumventing copy protection (much as we don't like it, the DMCA is law).

If your statement were true, companies like Real would be able to sell RealDVD with no issues... sadly, it's been proven that this isn't the case.

Right? Wrong? Either way, it's the law as it currently stands today.


RE: sad day
By Alexstarfire on 11/12/2009 12:29:17 AM , Rating: 1
Well, I kind of assumed certain things like that. Just as I assume you can't bludgeon someone to dead with a 360, strangle someone with a controller cord, or make a bomb out of the console. Of course those have nothing to do with the medium itself but rather the form of the act committed, which in these cases are murder, manufacturing illegal drugs, and making an explosive device (presumably without a license).

The equivalent, more or less anyway, for what I was talking about would be that I couldn't use my groceries to make a pizza simply because they don't want me to. Actually, a better one would be that I couldn't use my groceries to make ethnic foods simply because I live in the US. Heaven forbid I want some Japanese.


RE: sad day
By McGixxer on 11/12/2009 12:31:58 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
Are you going to tell me what I can and can't do to/with the groceries I buy? It's the same principle.


What a dumb Fk ! Hey, I bought a gun, are you going to tell me what I can and cant do with it? DURRR!

It's not the same principle you twit. If MS has a service they want to sell you through a contract that you agree to, you stick to the agreement or the contract ends (And so does the service)


RE: sad day
By Alexstarfire on 11/12/2009 1:50:42 AM , Rating: 2
You can't really compare anything to a gun. Guns are like the exception. Of course, I don't believe it's illegal to mod your gun, save for a sawed off shotgun, AFAIK. It's just illegal to kill people with it. Though, that has little to do with the gun and more to the fact that you're killing someone. Killing someone is wrong regardless of how it's done. Piracy and cheating (unless allowed) is wrong and should be punished. I have no problems with that. But to just go and ban people simply for having a modded console without necessarily knowing what they are doing is just stupid and wrong on many levels.


RE: sad day
By chrnochime on 11/11/2009 11:13:50 PM , Rating: 2
As an adult it's not really a good display of maturity to swear at the (supposed) teenager.

Oh wait, we're talking about creating adults that create values for a living, not about being adults and acting like one.

LOL


RE: sad day
By ussfletcher on 11/11/2009 5:52:00 PM , Rating: 2
I bet they will get a very large portion of their customers back.


RE: sad day
By Xerstead on 11/11/2009 7:26:07 PM , Rating: 2
From another artical on modding I read. One, or part, of the method(s) used involved changing the consoles firmware. This alternative version contains copyrighted code and would equate to piracy. The physical modding of the console is not illegal, but using the hacked firmware is.


RE: sad day
By rudy on 11/11/2009 7:55:11 PM , Rating: 2
It is not unheard of it is illegal for you to modify a phone as well changing ESN numbers and such. The reasons are legitimate if you do not like it do not buy the product with the terms you do not agree with.


"People Don't Respect Confidentiality in This Industry" -- Sony Computer Entertainment of America President and CEO Jack Tretton











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