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Microsoft's Peter Moore
Microsoft starts whispering softly into Nintendo's ear

Reuters reports Microsoft is getting cozy with Nintendo in an effort to take on Sony when it comes to the next generation console wars. As has been pointed out by many of our readers in previous articles concerning the pricing structure of the PlayStation 3, Microsoft contends that you can buy an XBOX 360 and a Wii and be better off than if you plunked down that cash on a sole PS3 gaming system.

Microsoft VP Peter Moore pulled out all the stops in promoting not only his company's XBOX 360, but also Nintendo's Wii. From Reuters:

"Tell me why you would buy a $600 PS3?" Peter Moore, a Microsoft vice president, said in an interview. "People are going to buy two (machines.) They're going to buy an Xbox and they're going to buy a Wii ... for the price of one PS3. People will always gravitate toward a competitively priced product -- like what I believe Wii will be -- with innovative new designs and great intellectual property like Mario, Zelda and Metroid," Moore told Reuters.

Microsoft has its work cut out for it. It is aiming to have shipped 10 million total XBOX 360 units by the time the PlayStation 3 makes its first appearance on store shelves. Microsoft is going to need all the help it can to fend off an attack from the PS3 so any outside help is going to be welcome in getting gamers to side with its strategy.

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well....duh...
By UsernameX on 5/11/2006 2:14:03 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Tell me why you would buy a $600 PS3?" Peter Moore, a Microsoft vice president, said in an interview.


...because I want MGS4, period




RE: well....duh...
By rocchioo on 5/11/2006 2:20:25 PM , Rating: 2
I'd buy a $600 PS3, but not at launch. The good games won't be out for awhile. That's when I'll get my PS3.

xbox live is only $60 and works great. Free online service isn't better because it's free. It still needs a good infrastructure. PS2 online left a lot to be desired.


RE: well....duh...
By epsilonparadox on 5/11/2006 2:52:41 PM , Rating: 2
xbox live is $50


RE: well....duh...
By bunnyfubbles on 5/11/2006 2:21:06 PM , Rating: 1
MG isn't exactly an exclusive franchise to Sony. It's very possible the 360 could end up with a port or perhaps its own game.


RE: well....duh...
By hoppa on 5/11/2006 4:32:37 PM , Rating: 2
Hell, we've already seen that the new Smash Bros game is gonna have Snake... I wouldn't be surprised if an MGS game came out on Wii. As for those that think Wii won't be powerful enough, well, it'll surely be quite a bit more powerful than PS2 and XBox, and those seemed to do the job fine.


RE: well....duh...
By pyroblazen on 5/11/2006 3:12:42 PM , Rating: 1
this article is false bc u can buy xbox 360 for $400 but then you have to buy the controlers and games and other equipment so u will spend over that much so there no way could by both xbox 360 and the wii because you would have to buy the games and other equipment so i would more than ps3 its self


RE: well....duh...
By Aquila76 on 5/11/2006 3:17:44 PM , Rating: 2
And you won't have to buy extra controllers, games, etc. for a PS3?


RE: well....duh...
By creathir on 5/11/2006 3:28:53 PM , Rating: 1
I think he did what is called
"Missing the point"
- Creathir


RE: well....duh...
By Trisped on 5/11/2006 5:54:19 PM , Rating: 2
And with the games starting at $70 and the controllers probably $40-50... Yeah...


RE: well....duh...
By Lakku on 5/11/2006 4:41:39 PM , Rating: 2
MGS4 is a poor reason to get a 600 dollar system, considering every MGS game is mediocre at best. People like you spread this kind of mediocrity that drives the industry and keeps programmers/designers lazy. Why invent when a bunch of fanboys will buy it anyway? Same as with Halo. Neither is worth the price of admission, though for 2 or 399, people can swallow the price to play Halo 3 (which will probably be better then any MGS game, which have been lame after the first one).


RE: well....duh...
By UsernameX on 5/11/2006 7:00:29 PM , Rating: 2
That's your opinion of course....


LONG LIVE MGS!


RE: well....duh...
By TecHNooB on 5/11/2006 6:13:32 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
...because I want MGS4, period


Amen.


RE: well....duh...
By steelghost on 5/11/2006 10:17:22 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
...because I want MGS4, period


i third that.



Don't trust them
By drxploder on 5/12/2006 12:24:14 AM , Rating: 2
MGS4 is the only game for ME that looks interesting for PS3 right now. The only problem with that is that within 1-2 years we may see a better version on PC/XBOX 360. When you think about it, sony relies on 3rd parties and 3rd parties rely on sony being popular. But if sony loses substantial market share or makes bad decisions, they'll be screwed (look at N64. 3rd parties are ultimately cheap floozies that will leave you the moment something hotter comes around).

For that reason, I never bought PS2/Xbox. I bought nintendo for true exclusives and waited for GTA/MSG on PC. With the exception of Soul Calibur 3, I haven't missed anything important to me (I've had to wait, but I always find something to do in the mean time.)

If PS3 tanks or significantly undersells/loses market share, expect companies to ditch Sony (ala the 1996 flight from Nintendo). If/when this happens sony is basically left with Jak&Daxter , Rachet&Clank, Grand Turismo, God of War, and Sly Cooper to sell the system. Good/Great franchises but look at what happened to nintendo in the 64/GC era. SNES had everything but Sonic&blood in MK3, but N64/GC were ultimately defined by Nintendo, thus less total sales.

That randomness said, I still want to play MGS4. Maybe I'll find a rich friend w/ a PS3 when it comes out.


TV
By skeeter123 on 5/11/2006 4:46:57 PM , Rating: 2
What good is a blu-ray player when you're hooking it up to an old tv. Most people I know that would buy the PS3 are still using tube TVs not HD TVs.

PS2 DVD -> works fine on old TV
PS3 BR -> HD TV needed for full experience





RE: TV
By ascian5 on 5/11/2006 5:16:20 PM , Rating: 2
People are missing some important points here. As far as value for your dollar goes, Blu-Ray is very relevant. Sony may not have a great record of winning format wars, but they do have a proven business model with people buying the PS2 when DVDs were new and players were expensive. This would give a serious push to buyers on the fence about either product, said products being a Blu-Ray player and the PS3. Those of you saying "Oh I think HD-DVD will win" is all well and good, but you're ignoring that the PS3 is a potent weapon for the success of Blu-ray, not the other way around.

In comparison to XB360, you come pretty close as well, there has been no mention of how much an HD DVD addon will be, so that's one thing. But for $200 you do get the Blu-Ray player, want it or not. Why go buy a next-gen player if you have one already? However, you also get built-in wireless, something that a lot of people are forgetting about, and that's a $100 peripheral for the 360 by itself. Plus a hard driver 3 times the size, link up for PSP, and support for higher resolutions with HDMI. Needing an HDTV for the full experience is an irrelevant argument against the PS3 because the same is true for the 360.

On a personal tangent, anyone who wants to argure about games and originality being superior from Microsoft is just smoking crack. I like the black and green box but let's face it, without that mediocre BS the world knows as HALO, there would be no more X-box. Period. No fanboy remark, just opinion.

Wow, I really got carried away.


RE: TV
By rrsurfer1 on 5/11/2006 5:25:29 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Sony may not have a great record of winning format wars, but they do have a proven business model with people buying the PS2 when DVDs were new and players were expensive.


True, but there were no conflicting media types. This is quiet a different situation with HDDVD vs. BluRay.


RE: TV
By skeeter123 on 5/11/2006 5:59:27 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Needing an HDTV for the full experience is an irrelevant argument against the PS3 because the same is true for the 360.


But Microsoft isn't cramming HD-DVD down our throats.

It doesn't matter how inexpensive a HD-DVD or Blu-Ray player is, if you don't have a HDTV it's just a glorified DVD. That's why the PS2 did so well, you didn't need to gut your entertainment center. It just worked.

$300 or what ever the PS2 was at lauch was a great way to get into the dvd arena. But $500-$600 PS3+HDTV is not the same thing as the PS2 dvd player.


RE: TV
By hstewarth on 5/11/2006 8:44:43 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
But Microsoft isn't cramming HD-DVD down our throats.


You assume that people don't want the Blu-Ray system. The primary reason why I would get a PS/3 is because of Blu-Ray and secondly the games.

For me PC games are best way to play - but the only console that has a chance is the PS3.

When comparing between 360 and PS3, the HDTV can be factor out of the equation - because if you need HiDef on the 360 you still need HDTV. You might say with the 360, you can use the VGA port - so can the PS3.

On difference with the PS3 Blu-Ray drive is its can store more content than a DVD - so this either means longer loading or swapping disks.

Basically the need for HDTV is ame between the 360 and PS3 is the same, only difference is if you have HDTV that supports 1080p then you can use it on a PS3. 1080p is different than 720p.. I have a Dell 24in monitor and games at 1920x1200 ( close to 1080p ) is much better looking than at 1280x1024 ( close to 720p ).


RE: TV
By vanka on 5/11/2006 7:55:01 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
the PS3 is a potent weapon for the success of Blu-ray, not the other way around


I think you have hit Sony's strategy right on the head with this quote, but I wonder at how it will play out. If you take a close look, you will realize that the PS3 is caught in a Catch-22 situation.

Sony is betting that people will buy the PS3 as a console and once they have it will say to themselves: "We got this thing that plays Blue-Ray movies, why not buy some?" This will then spur the adoption of the BR format.

But here's the problem: you come to the store to get a next gen console; you see the Wii for $200-300, the 360 for $300-400, and the PS3 for $500-600. Which one will you get? Most likely it won't be the PS3. Yes the PS3 is a better value, but only if BR is the format of choice .

So basically, for the PS3 to be a good value and get good sales, BR has to win the HD format war. For BR to win the format war, the PS3 needs to have strong sales as it will beat the next cheapest BR player by 50% price wise. Sony is basically fighting a war on two fronts, never a good position to be in. Time will tell if they win.


RE: TV
By Decaydence on 5/11/2006 8:06:52 PM , Rating: 2
Very good assessment Vanka. They are definately trying to use PS3 to establish Blu-ray much like the ps2 supposedly solidified dvd (a claim that I think is slightly overblown). There is a huge risk, however, that they will hurt their video game business in the hopes of helping their new format.

For those that claim the HD-dvd add-on won't deliver this bolstering effect for HD-dvd: If I'm looking into getting HD-dvd and I have the choice between spending between 400-500 on a machine that can only play hd-dvd or paying the same amount for a machine that not only does that, but also plays HD downloaded content and video games; I'm going for the 360/addon.


RE: TV
By sxr7171 on 5/11/2006 10:44:45 PM , Rating: 2
Yeah but the 360 doesn't have HDMI/HDCP so what's the point?

That Toshiba player will be $300 by Christmas guaranteed.


RE: TV
By ViperROhb34 on 5/12/2006 11:57:38 PM , Rating: 2
Yeah but the 360 doesn't have HDMI/HDCP so what's the point?
That Toshiba player will be $300 by Christmas guaranteed.

Its more likely that there player will be 399, but being its 499 now and Christmas is only 8 months away I doubt they'd drop it that much being its still half the price of Blu-Ray ..

And by the way.. The Xbox team says there will be a HDMI cable avaliable for XBox 360


RE: TV
By vanka on 5/12/2006 2:51:43 AM , Rating: 2
I agree with you on the issue of the PS2 and its DVD support. Many people believe that now it's time for round 2 with PS3 and Blue-Ray; but they're forgetting one thing: there was no format war when DVD came out. There was one unified standard that everyone was expecting, so yes buying the PS2 and getting a DVD player as a bonus might have convinced some people to choose the PS2. Today, on the other hand, we have two competing standards that are just getting warmed up for battle. I imagine quite a bit of people will ask themselves if they want to end up with a Betamax Doorstop 2.0.

Also, how many people actually used their PS2s as regular DVD players? At best it was a temperary solution; I still remember what a pain in the a$$ it was when we watched a movie on the PS2 at my friends house. The game pads did not make great remotes. Yes, I know that a wireless remote was offered; but I think everyone will agree that it was not aimed at video enthusiasts. This same problem will bite the PS3 in the a$$ as well. Sony is toting the PS3 as a BR video player to boost sales, but most early adopters of new video technology are hardcore movie buffs. They already have the newly released HD movies on DVD and/or VHS. The reason they're upgrading to HD is because they want nothing short of the best, not something that the PS3 will deliver. They will not be satisfied with what the PS3 provides as a BR player, they will want the top of the line and nothing less. Most folks are satisfied with the quality of their DVDs and are not in any hurry to replace their existing DVD collection; Sony is trying to sell the PS3 to exactly these people.


Blu Ray prices, HD-DVD 45 Gigs
By ViperROhb34 on 5/13/2006 12:25:21 AM , Rating: 2
Exactly, DVD was an already well established media.
I had many friends that had DVD already when PS2 came out.

Someone mentioned the 50gig vesus 30 gig thing....

But, Panasonic will ship four types of Blu-ray discs to the U.S. this year: recordable 25GB single-layer and 50GB dual-layer discs for $17.99 and $42.99
http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/storage/display/20060...
Toshiba Corp. has announced new hybrid DVD media capable of holding a whopping 45GB of storage. The HD DVD-ROM disc is based on the HD DVD disc structure with a single side and 3 layers. On each of the 3 layers, 15GB of data can be stored, all on the standard 0.6mm disc sizes.

http://www.macobserver.com/article/2005/05/11.11.s...


I'd also like to say.. Microsoft is smart.. IF for some reason HD-DVD doesnt pan out.. they can still offer Blu_ray onto the Xbox 360 externally..



RE: TV
By smut on 5/12/2006 4:06:34 AM , Rating: 2
I hate when people say this! DVDs and DVD players were NOT expensive when PS2 came out. I got a an awesome dvd player that is still in commission many years later for $69! And dvds were $15-20 just like they are NOW. Stop saying PS2 was good because DVD players were expensive. the real reason the ps2 had a huge penetration because of the DVD player is because it was easier for ppl that didnt have a DVD player and wanted Sonys new console to get both at the same time. I REPEAT, DVDs and DVD movies WERE NOT EXPENSIVE when PS2 first released. I dont know what you people are talking about. I know PS2 helped the DVD format penetrate some households but your using the wrong reason why.


To be honest...
By BigToque on 5/11/2006 2:17:08 PM , Rating: 3
Microsoft will very easily take #1 spot with their 360. It's one hell of a machine, and it's got some great games.

Nintendo came with a very innovative machine that seems to have stolen E3 this year. You simply cannot go wrong with this console for $200. The software is always amazing.

I don't really know where Sony hopes to fit in with a $600 console that doesn't seem to show any real benefit over the 360 other than the blu-ray drive (which may or may not turn out to be a benefit at all).




RE: To be honest...
By Ikari on 5/11/2006 2:27:50 PM , Rating: 2
People are moaning about the price tag on PS3 but with the demand so high compared to the actual supply during that period. Hell I remember selling my xbox360 for $1900. There will be people to buy it. Also if Sony notices that the initial launch doesn't do so well, they can expect to lower the price after January.

$600 imo is really pushing it, if Sony lowered the price by $100, then they've got a real tough competitor against MS. Also it's just over 6 months until launch, things can change from now until then.


RE: To be honest...
By rushfan2006 on 5/11/2006 2:33:19 PM , Rating: 2
Yeah of course there will be idiots and suckers....but most of us talking about the price, imply about the "average" consumer who work for a living, have real bills and responsiblities like families, etc.

Anyone who buys your Xbox for $1900 is an absolute idiot..so based on those folks of course the PS3 will sell some units..heck they'll probably sell a couple million at that price...like I said there are tons of suckers out there..


RE: To be honest...
By KristopherKubicki (blog) on 5/11/2006 2:35:40 PM , Rating: 2
I bought a 360 for $850. But then I destroyed it:
http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.aspx?i=2610&p=1


RE: To be honest...
By epsilonparadox on 5/11/2006 2:57:07 PM , Rating: 2
you're nerdy force powers couldn't put it back together?? that doesn't leave much hope for the us lesser mortals who'd like to try.


RE: To be honest...
By One43637 on 5/11/2006 2:52:10 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Yeah of course there will be idiots and suckers....but most of us talking about the price, imply about the "average" consumer who work for a living, have real bills and responsiblities like families, etc.


i'm not sure if you're commenting on the 600USD PS3 or the Xbox 360 that went for $1900, but i work for a living and yes i have bills to pay just like every average person out there. it still won't stop me from picking up a PS3.

i do agree that the Xbox 360s that were selling for over a grand is just insane. but then again, that's just my opinion.


RE: To be honest...
By Decaydence on 5/11/2006 6:57:29 PM , Rating: 2
The conversation is about how the prices will affect the market. Simply stating "i'm willing to pay that" doesn't add to the debate at all. It's about what is the smartest move and how that move will translate in market superiority.

Bottom line is, the industry has always been dependant on Software library size (360 wins), price point (360 wins), big titles (360 at launch, only time will tell beyond that, but with exclusivity slipping from Sony's grasp at every turn, things are certainly looking good for 360) and technology that effects the main purpose of the console; gaming.


RE: To be honest...
By ViperROhb34 on 5/12/2006 3:05:09 PM , Rating: 2
Yeah but the people who payed that much for the Xbox 360 ( 1900 bucks ) and would for a PS3 are the half% of one percent.. those people dont drive the industry. They don't matter when the accountants are looking at the revenue reports.. They don't dent it..

We're talking about sheer numbers.. average people who work for a living and support a family of four on 50 thousand a year..


PS3 & BD Player
By PBDragon on 5/11/2006 6:00:40 PM , Rating: 2
$600USD for a gaming machine is really out of my reach here especially there are many monthly expenses that I have to take care of. I'm going to get a Wii as long as it's around $200USD but $600USD (even $500CAD for a XB360 here in Canada) is not something I'm willing to pay for.

Imagine I'm paying $649CAD for a PS3, ~$140CAD for two games (assuming $70 each). That's $800CAD here. Plus the 14% sale taxes in Canada I'm basically looking at $1000CAD. For someone who has to pay for living it's not that easy to just shell out a grand for something that you just see it as a toy.

I see people saying $600 for PS3 + BD Player is a bargain. I would like someone who can really gives me an answer here:
For those who are going to buy a PS3 just beacuse it has a BD Player, how many BD Movies you are actually looking at?
I want to know is it justify to buy a "bargain" BD Player while you're not going to have lots of BD stuff anyways.

I'm planning to spend $1000 to upgrade my computer since a computer can do so many things compare to a gaming machine. I'm going to get a NDSL next month but I have no plan getting a XB360 & PS3 until they go down to somewhere around $300CAD + taxes.

PBDragon




RE: PS3 & BD Player
By tigz1218 on 5/11/2006 7:16:34 PM , Rating: 2
People were saying this same exact stuff when the ps2 came with DVD's......now ask yourself...how big is the dvd collection you own, or friends of yours, and look at the selection of dvd's in all the stores.....Alot more then vhs......technology changes fast, and with many of the hollywood studios backing blu-ray and the fact im an owner of 3 hdtv's i am going to stick with the ps3.


RE: PS3 & BD Player
By afkrotch on 5/11/2006 7:51:54 PM , Rating: 2
PS3 gaming console
Blu-ray Player
card reader
60 gig hdd

$600 is looking like a bargain to me. Considering it could probably do exactly what your $1000 upgrade to your computer could do. Course, minus playing computer games.

Also, where are these $70 USD games? I have yet to see any game (minus the ones that you get like a special controller with the game) to be $70 USD.

Also the PS3 has usb ports, so it can be easily expanded upon. Shoot, probably take the Xbox360 HD player and connect it to the PS3. Just need drivers.

As for blu-ray, I'll be buying plenty of crap. Shoot, right now I have over 700 DVDs. I'm not even looking at BD for HD content. I'm hoping companies will put large series onto BD with a DVD type format. Saves space in my little dorm room. If Stargate SG-1 1st season came out on a single blu-ray disc, that saves me a huge amount of shelf space. You can't imagine how much room 700 dvds with cases takes up.

And yes, I would replace my dvd collection with BD discs. I replaced my vhs collection with DVDs. I just wish they could make the cases smaller, like a cd case. Course a great thing with BD is the fact that they can put a dvd layer onto the disc. So the BD is backwards compatible with regular dvd players out today, if companies will actually do that.


RE: PS3 & BD Player
By mjdaly on 5/11/2006 10:32:52 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Also, where are these $70 USD games? I have yet to see any game (minus the ones that you get like a special controller with the game) to be $70 USD.



If you would read the post, the prices listed are in Canadian dollars, not US dollars.


RE: PS3 & BD Player
By PBDragon on 5/12/2006 1:03:18 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
If you would read the post, the prices listed are in Canadian dollars, not US dollars.


Thanks for clarify that. That's why I'm making sure I have CAD behind the values. :)

Well, I have a XBox & a slim PS2 but I didn't use any one of them watching DVD movies once. That's basically what my point is. Yes I have quite a bit DVD movies (say 100 or so), but I never thinking using my XB or PS2 to play any of them. I have a LG HD up-converting Divx player and it works so well that I don't play movies on my computer now.

IMO, gaming machine is gaming machine, nothing else. I still don't buy the idea from MS about using XB360 as multimedia center. If I buy Wii XB360 & PS3 I play games on them, that's it. Am I going to buy a standalone HD-DVD & BD-DVD players?? Probably yes, but I would be more likely looking for a hybird one (if there is one).

Regarding spending $1000 on computer upgrades, I think a computer can do more than just computer games. In fact, the only "computer games" I'm still playing on my computer are MMORPGs. I mainly use my computer for other purposes such as video editing and animation works, etc.

Even though I still play games alot, I'm just kind of getting passed the age which games are more important than any other things. For me, I care more about my living & my job and I don't really feel excited on any one of the next gen machines either. Maybe I'm just getting older or older now lol.

In conclusion, I'm going to buy all three machines when they reach the price I'm looking for. This is still my plan and I just don't feel like paying too much money on gaming machines anymore. Again, I'm not planning to use them as movie player, a standalone player is still within my plan (I want hybird :).

I'm 26 yrs old, but I sound like an old man now lol.

PBDragon


I really like this gaming without Sony idea but...
By sxr7171 on 5/11/2006 3:13:28 PM , Rating: 3
Microsoft really needs to leverage this head start of theirs and seriously entice some developers to make some real games for it. I doubt the PS3 will have a damn thing worth buying for a year after launch either, but they have the Sony Hype Machine on their side.

Since Microsoft is used to losing money hand over fist to buy marketshare, they could easily just get rid of the Core system and drop the Premium system to $349 right now and attack when Sony is at their weakest (right now after that piss poor showing at E3).

Then since their system is easier to develop for than PS3, they could really offer some cash and incentives into getting some awesome creative 3rd party titles out for it ASAP.

I mean a real focus on innovation and not rehashing over and over. They could own the market will before Sony even ships in decent quantities.

A happy gamer who just dropped $350 on their 360 isn't going to feel like dropping another $600 on something that has no games out.

However, while I think XBox 360 is the lesser evil to PS3, I doubt Microsoft has the ability to pull off this sort of nurturing of creativity like they would have to do. They know how to make a system, but they don't know how to develop a portfolio of interesting games.




By ZeeStorm on 5/11/2006 3:23:31 PM , Rating: 1
Comparing the premium to Sony's "premium" is just moronic. The basic PS3 ($500, hdd and wireless controller) is the same as X360 premium (hdd and wireless controller). And where did you read no games out? Every single PS1 and PS2 games are going to work on the PS3. Not to mention MGS4, Gran Turismo, and others. I don't feel like looking anything up. As of right now, there is a not a single game fot the X360 exclusively that is worth paying for.

I would say you're right that M$ will prob drop the price. But they're already losing money on it. They're not going to drop the prices on accessories and games. Sony will just match them for prices on that. I think the $100 difference for Blu-Ray and a non-M$ machine is worth it. I have yet to see a decent product made by M$.


By sxr7171 on 5/11/2006 3:32:05 PM , Rating: 2
Yeah, I really want to drop $600 to play stuff that's been out for a while. Like they didn't suck the first time around with aliased graphics and no creativity.

It's not like M$ is any better with games, but at least it's cheaper.

Also moron, no shit sherlock about M$ losing money on the console, with their coffers than can easily afford to lose more to give Sony a nice deathblow while they are weak. The original Xbox never made a profit and they don't even care, they just called it an learning experience. If anything they could hurt Sony real bad by lowering 360 prices right now.

Do you really think Sony is making money on PS3?

Also if I need a Blu-ray player I'll get a real one that doesn't look like a Foreman grill.


By Panurge on 5/11/2006 8:45:28 PM , Rating: 2
There's actually a big point of notice when comparing the Xbox360 packages and the PS3 ones. We can still say that the better 360 pacakge should be compared to the better PS3 one, and that's logicial. The PS3 one comes with a very slight edge in features (only a couple things I can think of are HDMI and wireless, both of which aren't necessarily used by large populations of gamers).

However, the worse package is where things really get interesting. Note that the lower PS3 package does NOT have HDMI, card readers, or wireless. These are inherently not in the system, so you can't even upgrade via accessories to get them back.

The Xbox360 Core, on the other hand, simply had less pieces. You can still buy everything to make it the same as the Premium system, it's just expensive to do so.

I think Sony is really shooting themselves by making the cheaper system not have the same core features. It could blow up later for the people who either have to settle for what's left on the shelf, or can't afford the "good" model.


Moderated
By ealtorfer on 5/11/06, Rating: -1
By Gatt on 5/11/2006 5:01:32 PM , Rating: 2
Um, I doubt very, very, highly that "Every single PS and PS2 game will work on PS3!"

Cell is a completely different architecture, virtually incompatible with previous processors and most certainly incapable of running PS2 games at speed.

I'll also point out, right now, the two games you mention are about it for PS3. They've got half the developer support of both X-box 360 and the PC market.

Sony's going to go belly up because of PS3, I only hope Blue Ray survives it.


Truth
By CoreGamer on 5/11/2006 5:44:40 PM , Rating: 2
You wont like it but this is what I have to say:

Sony will NOT last beyond this Gen of Console, the PSP is still lagging behind the DS In terms of sales and the UMD Format is Dying as we speak.The PS3 Is just too expensive. SURE, you may afford that, but do you think some kids mom will walk up into walmart and shell out 600 plus games for christmas? That accounts for many sales. The PS3 (If you remember) had an article here on DT on a bill of matierials that came out to 800$ Sony is obviously going to lose money on sales, and if thats not enough to kill the Playstation line...Sony will not be able to recover that money in games because they have VERY FEW Games worth buying. M$ on the other hand although still has a pricey console has a good Game base. Nintendo will probably score Tons of Sales because of GAMES ALONE. If you decide to not belive this because you are some sony-drone, I invite you to quote me and bring this up in a year when the title of DailyTech's article will be "Pkaystation on Life Support"




RE: Truth
By MegaRoll on 5/11/2006 6:42:54 PM , Rating: 2
"The PS3 Is just too expensive. SURE, you may afford that, but do you think some kids mom will walk up into walmart and shell out 600 plus games for christmas?"

Yes. Who buys M-rated games for their kiddies? Who gets the game-industry in trouble when content "crosses the line?" Parents. Parents who make money and WILL buy anything to shut their kids up. You can go into malls and find LITTLE (and Im talking about 5-10 year olds) with cellphones WITH plans. Face it, the US is very materialistic and kids who do not know the value of money arent helping this issue. Moms ARE going to buy PS3s. People ARE going to have PS3s in their households. And I bet Europe will STILL be Sonyland.


RE: Truth
By vanka on 5/11/2006 8:05:00 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
You can go into malls and find LITTLE (and Im talking about 5-10 year olds) with cellphones WITH plans.


True, but the people I know who did this for their kids got a family plan with 5000 minutes with mobile to mobile free. We are materialistic, that's true, but we're not stupid. If I walk into a store with my kid and see that for the price of just a PS3 Premium I can get a 360 Premium and $200 worth of games and accessories or better yet a Wii and $400 left for other goodies, you think I'm gonna listen to him? At that point it's take it or leave it.


RE: Truth
By sxr7171 on 5/11/2006 10:31:18 PM , Rating: 2
Damn straight that's the truth. Remember Jaguar, 3DO, and Turbo Grafix 16? I know you do.

These companies are moving away from what a game console should be doing and pushing all this other crap on consumers that they didn't even ask for. A gaming console should simply play good games and be fun and simple to enjoy. If I need a little study break I want it to turn on and start playing without 3 minute load times and relearning controls.

If I want to watch HD movies, I'll pick up a real Blu-Ray player that I can put in my entertainment center (I always thought a Foreman grill belonged in the kitchen), has full features and focus on quality playback of movies, and has a remote that isn't a game pad. They will be $300 or so by Dec/Jan. Why compromise?



Good Idea
By rrsurfer1 on 5/11/2006 2:16:49 PM , Rating: 2
This is a great idea. It'd be even better if they advertised that fact, joint MS/Nintendo commercials :)

I, for one, will own both systems. And no PS3. By the time PS3 gets released game developers will have had alot more time to get familiar with the 360, and the first gen PS3 games are really not going to be able to compete with the newest gen 360 games. IMHO. It's not the hardware, its the software. Granted, in time, PS3 games may surpass the xbox due to the hardware advantage.




RE: Good Idea
By creathir on 5/11/2006 3:30:29 PM , Rating: 1
I am in your camp...
The only REASON I could see buying a PS3, would be the BluRay player, and that is IF (and only if) BlueRay becomes the standard. A $600 PS3 is cheaper than a $1200 stand alone player... but I think for that reason alone BluRay is has lost before the battle begun...
- Creathir


RE: Good Idea
By rrsurfer1 on 5/11/2006 4:57:47 PM , Rating: 2
Yea, I'm thinking HD-DVD will win out... and Sony doesn't have a great history AT ALL in the format wars ;)


RE: Good Idea
By ViperROhb34 on 5/12/2006 3:02:10 PM , Rating: 2
You're the only one to bring up the goodpoint so far about ther programming.

I can remember this even happening with Super NES ..
Remember how barely better the games were at 1st with SNES?
... Then 4yrs later devs finally can use its power and thus... Donkey Kong Country ? LOL

Well.. some of the games on Xbox 360 actually look sort of Next Gen.. but many more are on the way. I've read that game devs/programmers have said PS3 will not be as friendly to make games for..


Is this guy serious?
By hstewarth on 5/11/2006 3:13:51 PM , Rating: 2
Is this guy really serious? Joining up with Nintendo? Nintendo better watch out, if Microsoft successfull against the PS/3 which is not very likely because of Sony fan base, Microsoft would then attact Nintendo.

Maybe they just trying to say XBox 360 + Wii = PS/3

Nothing personal, but funny thought, don't this guy look like one of aliens on the TV show "V"




RE: Is this guy serious?
By jlmadyson on 5/11/2006 3:22:58 PM , Rating: 2
Yep, that is my plan, 360+Wii. Good times, good times.


RE: Is this guy serious?
By heulenwolf on 5/12/2006 10:22:42 AM , Rating: 2
Its interesting to note that the article says that "MS is getting cozy with Nintendo" but doesn't claim and shows no evidence of Nintendo reciprocating. I think Nintendo has sufficiently separated the Wii from the rest of the pack such that it doesn't need support from either MS or Sony. It looks to me like MS is trying to frame the 360 and Wii as complementary rather than competing products.


re: PS3 & Blue-Ray
By wallijonn on 5/12/2006 3:15:01 PM , Rating: 2
Forget about Blue-Ray & the PS2 being a DVD player for a moment; those of you who bought PS2s - did you go all out for AC3? Afterall, AC3 was touted as a feature of the PS2. But how many people went with 5.1 instead?




RE: re: PS3 & Blue-Ray
By piroroadkill on 5/15/2006 6:26:21 AM , Rating: 2
What the fuck? AC3 = Dolby Digital 5.1.

What the fuck are you talking about?


RE: re: PS3 & Blue-Ray
By Clauzii on 5/15/2006 10:53:33 PM , Rating: 2
Bit science can be very confusing for some :)


Why on earth buy a 360...
By bounds on 5/11/2006 2:42:26 PM , Rating: 2
If the PS3 is too pricey for you, you're hardly going to buy two consoles, never mind two consoles and a bluray/HD-DVD player. That makes no sense.

Me I'll be getting a Wii and PS3 why? No idea I just don't see any titles for the 360 that are worth getting. Just my opinion




RE: Why on earth buy a 360...
By shabodah on 5/11/2006 2:49:50 PM , Rating: 2
No kidding, HOW much tech stuff do these companies want us to buy? Seriously, I will buy the Nintendo new, sure. I'm sure I'll get the PS3 later when it's down to $299 or less, but for now, I've got my PC and it can do anything the 360 does. Don't care about HD until they can get their act together and quit wasting our time and money.


RE: Why on earth buy a 360...
By creathir on 5/11/2006 3:33:23 PM , Rating: 1
You will get 2 if you bought a 360 last year, and a Wii this year...
(That is what I personally plan on doing...)
- Creathir


Funny stuff
By Griswold on 5/11/2006 3:04:25 PM , Rating: 2
There is some seriously funny logic in some comments here. :D




RE: Funny stuff - yep
By ViperROhb34 on 5/12/2006 5:16:02 PM , Rating: 2
Yeah, especially the comment about the no games for XBox 360.. I dont even know if any games exist for Ps3 that arent demos.. and that system is even running late..

I think something like 60 more titles for it will be out in the next few months.. Around 100 or more by PS3 launch


To each his own.
By cciesquare on 5/11/2006 3:46:47 PM , Rating: 2
Honestly it comes down to what genre of games you like.

Sony Playstation goes for the Japanesses games like RPG and mostly story telling games. Which i hate, thus i rarely if ever use my ps2, i consider it a waste of money cuz i couldnt play anything worth while.

Xbox is more action adventure and sport. Dont get me wrong sony has those types of games too but I feel it is better on an Xbox.

I will be buying and Xbox 360 soon, just because i like the type of games that microsoft associates with the console.

Nintendo still has the feeling of being a kid's console, kid's being anyone under 12. Like mario cart, etc.

Like i said it depends on what type of games you like and how you feel which console does a good job on it. My friend loves sony cuz of the rpg and japanese games, i on the other hand cant stand it.




RE: To each his own.
By rushfan2006 on 5/11/2006 4:05:02 PM , Rating: 2
In retrospect, I agree with you more than any other post on this thread yet. It really comes down to the games, not if it has Blu-Ray, HD-DVD or this controller style or that controller style...the single most influential thing for a game console - is the games you can play on it. Quality trumps Quantity for me, so right off the bat merely saying which console has the larger library means little to me...a console could have 500 titles, but if 467 of them suck..what does it matter how many titles it has?

Now me personally I'd NEVER drop case on a console (at least not $400-$600) to play a SINGLE good game...but yeah..ultimately it comes down to the console the plays the games you like to play.

The Blu-ray reason alone though for PS3 (or the HD-DVD reason for the Xbox360) - that's only a niche audience that'll buy those systems for those reasons. The people who want SERIOUS home theater systems will always seek out the components with the full feature set (and just because it looks a lot nicer in your cabinet than a game console).

Finally the people saying well an HD-DVD player costs this much or a stand alone blu-ray costs this much...yeah for the folks with no patience you nimrods. I mean come on guys, of course new toys always cost more...hello!!!!....the standards haven't even settled yet and you guys are saying but you'll pay XXXX dollars for a blu-ray player...lol..that's just stupid logic to me...

Why not wait? When the prices drop and the standards mature...? LOL oh I forgot this is the "Instant gratifacation and ME" generation....sorry..


Dream Technology
By porkster on 5/11/2006 4:05:25 PM , Rating: 2
I dream at the moment is having the Wii/Revolution not a xbox360 or ps3, but the winner will be the unit with less protection for copying content. Microsoft has already shown they are stepping too much into DRM and other limited directions.

If PS3 has copy'able games then it will blasts the others even if it's nto as good on the new generation controller level.

No one wants to buy hundreds of games, it's crazy, especially at the price they are.




RE: Dream Technology
By milomnderbnder21 on 5/11/2006 4:32:34 PM , Rating: 2
First, I don't think what you're saying really makes any sense.

The most successful console will be the one that is easiest to pirate games from? That's stupid.

Second, Sony is perhaps the worst company in the world when is comes to DRM policies. Have you read about their scandal with the root-kits at all? They basically don't want you to even be able to play music on your computer.


I am buying a ps3
By tigz1218 on 5/11/06, Rating: 0
RE: I am buying a ps3
By milomnderbnder21 on 5/11/2006 4:29:37 PM , Rating: 2
You just rehashed what a few other people have already gone over.

Thinking of the PS3 as value because of the blue ray is dumb, because the demand for BR players isn't going to be exceptional anytime soon. A mom isn't going to go to the store and say "hey, BR!, I'd better get my kid this console!"

For the same price, you can have 2 consoles that offer a diverse range of games. That's superior value. Unless you absolutely need some of the PS3 games, it's hard to understand how that investment is worthwhile.

And how can you like sony more than microsoft? Sony's DRM practices are clear enough proof to me that they are the most evil of the three console makers.

And your apparent understanding of politics is frightening. Kerry wasn't a great candidate, but he was attacked more than he attacked others.


RE: I am buying a ps3
By sxr7171 on 5/11/2006 10:54:34 PM , Rating: 2
Well said about BR demand. Although I want BR to win (as much as I hate Sony), I think adoption of a new format has a certain curve that cannot be rushed try as they might.

It all goes in stages. Like with DVD the first players were $1000+ and only early adopters bit. Then when it hits the $500 mark a whole new wave of people bite. Again at $300, at $250, $200 and $150.

The reason why the first BR players are $1000 is not because the drive is so expensive, but because those first players are top of the line players.

SACD launched with a $5000 audiophile level player, but within year a $300 consumer level player came out. That $5000 player is still unbeatable in build and performance.

So it isn't that it is all that expensive to make a BR player, but just that the first players will be high end players that can capture those people willing to pay for a top quality player.

Anyhow the point is that people will want BR in large numbers when the cost of admission is $250-300. They don't care that if $300 extra gives them the ability to play games and surf the internet and provide the appearance of Foreman grill near your TV.



Nothing new
By gchanjam on 5/11/2006 11:17:46 PM , Rating: 2
Maybe you guys have forgotten the days when $200 was too much to pay for a PS1 or an N64. Then $300 was too much for a PS2 or XBOX and yet here we are with consoles that cost $500+. Its nothing new and people will still buy them in record numbers, if you dont think so then youre kidding yourselves. Especially since it has the Playstation name attached to it.




RE: Nothing new
By bunnyfubbles on 5/12/2006 1:36:19 AM , Rating: 1
Yeah, uh, when PS2 debuted, XBox did come out as $600 a YEAR LATER.

I'll agree that price doesn't really matter TOO much, but its all about competition. People are going to realize that if you want a gaming system as good as PS3 you can get that for $200-300 cheaper with the 360 - that is if you want that same experience, you can opt to save even more money by going with Wii. You can buy Wii or 360 and 4-8 new games whereas you're still just getting started with PS3.

You're right about the Playstation name, but not in this context. Sony could slap Playstation 3 on any old piece of crap hardware and it would sell as long as it wasn't 2x the cost as competition. That's what they've been doing with PS1/2. Hardware was slow and underpowered compared to competition of those respective generations but the Sony name and solid software titles prevailed.


RE:
By asdf624 on 5/11/2006 3:02:11 PM , Rating: 2
Im gonna buy a wii when it launches and I'll probably buy a ps3 in 3 years when the price is hopefully something i can afford. I would consider an xbox360 but im a big square enix fan and I heard ps3 has free online play.




ps3 for me
By y2chuck on 5/11/2006 3:48:10 PM , Rating: 2
I'd buy a PS3 for GT5 alone.(or GT HD or whatever they will call it)
Since it's not out until November, I'll just make my lunch for work instead of going out everyday and that alone will pay for it by then.

Will probably buy a WII as well, but no 360.




It's a race...
By ryedizzel on 5/11/2006 5:15:32 PM , Rating: 2
By the time Sony launches the PS3 and gets some decent games for it Microsoft will be ready to launch their next system!




Argue?
By Scabies on 5/11/2006 5:26:25 PM , Rating: 2
I remember when XBOX launched, I thought the price tag was lucrative. It made quite a suprise on christmas morning though.

Diehards will stay with what they grew up with. I turned into a strictly PC guy after Halo 2 failed to blow me away (and having noticed that Xbox didnt come out with much else I liked.) I finally got a ps2-slim a few weeks ago against my internal grudge, because I saw that the three games that seriously held my attn (ffx, katamari, kingdom hearts) were all about $20, and guitar hero was downright addictive.
Value guys will balance logic into the equation, and pick either the 360 with xx games, the wii with xx games and a smattering of old classics (Chrono Trigger alone might sell the wii to me) or the wii-360 shopping spree with x games per console.
Morons will be sold by the Blu-Ray drive. Ever heard of a beta player? Yeah, it almost happened. It was superior to vhs and could probably still put up a decent fight with DVD (minus a few things like variable audio and whats becoming of HDTV) but was horribly implemented and failed. So "$1000 technology for $600" might not be so intelligent when media manufacturers dump printable BRDs.
And the rest of us poor folk will just sit and watch and pray for the gen 2 HD consoles, so we can finally get our 360 or PS3.




By hstewarth on 5/11/2006 6:25:17 PM , Rating: 2
Check out the following article, maybe it is just better to skip the consoles and go with Intel solutions

http://www.tgdaily.com/2006/05/11/intel_makes_its_...




By chud67bc on 5/11/2006 8:13:22 PM , Rating: 2
Yeh, but how many people today use a PS2 or xbox as their primary DVD player, when much better DVD plays and recorders cost $150 or more.

Also, people who are serious about their Video and audio home theatre are going to buy high end dedicated brands, not a PS3 to play their movies. Sony has to think who their audience is?




Price?
By Clauzii on 5/11/2006 9:25:11 PM , Rating: 2
How much for a 360 w.60gigs and HD-DVD?????

Thought so...




No Bargains
By INeedCache on 5/12/2006 7:18:40 AM , Rating: 2
As a parent of two teenagers who already have several game consoles, I'll assure you all there are no "bargains" with any of these game consoles or anything that goes with them. I also assure you I'll not be one of those parents who will just drop $600+ to shut my kids up with a PS3. I agree that there are probably a lot of parents that will drop some decent bucks to satisfy their kid's yearning for a new game console. But I disagree that many will simply cave and buy the more expensive one when one such as the Xbox 360 is out there significantly cheaper. I'm willing to go the price of an Xbox, but not a PS3. Although, if enough do buy a PS3 that an already hurting Sony will be selling below cost, perhaps Sony may find popularity isn't so good after all. Just one parent's perspective.




.
By albundee on 5/11/06, Rating: -1
RE: .
By bunnyfubbles on 5/11/2006 2:19:45 PM , Rating: 1
I'll save my $300-400 for a stand alone HD video player, whether it be HD-DVD or BluRay is yet to be seen...


RE: .
By creathir on 5/11/06, Rating: 0
RE: .
By CKDragon on 5/11/2006 3:53:49 PM , Rating: 2
You say that like we can't expect the price to decrease on Blu-Ray players...

CK


RE: .
By Spoonbender on 5/12/2006 8:13:48 AM , Rating: 2
Or like we *want* a Blu-Ray player when they're first launched. I for one would rather wait until there's some actual content for them.


RE: Bluray Cost going down
By ViperROhb34 on 5/12/2006 10:36:35 AM , Rating: 2
Yeah we can explext them to go down, but beleive this.. it will go down slower then HD-DVD..

Not simply because HD-DVD is out now, but HD-DVD cost little more then DVD tech.. its more now because its new..

Blu-Ray is another beast.. it cost alot more to produce period. And they'll have to sell alot fast to make the price go down.. When it comes out at $1000, HD-DVD will be 399.. its already 499 at Best Buy


By ViperROhb34 on 5/13/2006 12:28:03 AM , Rating: 2
Exactly, DVD was an already well established media.
I had many friends that had DVD already when PS2 came out.

Someone mentioned the 50gig vesus 30 gig thing....

But, Panasonic will ship four types of Blu-ray discs to the U.S. this year: recordable 25GB single-layer and 50GB dual-layer discs for $17.99 and $42.99... HD-DVD disc will cost less. So would you rather have 2 or 3 HD-DVD disc that cost less then one BLu-Ray disc..
http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/storage/display/20060...

Toshiba Corp. has announced new hybrid DVD media capable of holding a whopping 45GB of storage. The HD DVD-ROM disc is based on the HD DVD disc structure with a single side and 3 layers. On each of the 3 layers, 15GB of data can be stored, all on the standard 0.6mm disc sizes.

http://www.macobserver.com/article/2005/05/11.11.s...


I'd also like to say.. Microsoft is smart.. IF for some reason HD-DVD doesnt pan out.. they can still offer Blu_ray onto the Xbox 360 externally..


RE: .
By rrsurfer1 on 5/11/2006 2:20:02 PM , Rating: 2
Disagree, most people don't look for "l33t". Many people have families and people they need to support, $600 for a console is just too much. And buying a standalone HD-DVD player is going to be way cheaper than buying PS3. Or by buying the new XBOX-HDDVD.


RE: .
By sxr7171 on 5/11/2006 2:36:25 PM , Rating: 2
First gen PS2 games had nothing on what Dreamcast had. Heck, Soul Calibur was out 2 years before the PS2 "launched" and tell me first gen PS2 title could even begin to touch that. But alas people HAD to buy that garbage.


RE: .
By Tanclearas on 5/12/2006 9:07:17 AM , Rating: 2
I think the Dreamcast/PS2 comparison is a good one. Sony will succeed with PS3 simply because it is the Playstation.

The Dreamcast had a huge price advantage, a large library of games (including a bunch of $25 to $30 "Greatest Hits" type games), and the visuals of the games at the time were easily as good as the first-gen PS2 titles.

It didn't matter who you pointed this out to at the time. Everyone wanted a Playstation 2. And just for reference, the Dreamcast even had a Microsoft logo on the front for Windows CE.

If you thing XB360 being cheaper will keep people from buying the PS3, you're just kidding yourself.


RE: I agree
By ViperROhb34 on 5/12/2006 1:35:23 PM , Rating: 2

I have the money to buy a Ps3 sitting in the bank right now, but I don't feel I need one at all. And same goes for my cousin who has plenty laying around..

PS2 even at luanch of 299 was still in the working classes budget and even that was seen as a bit high.. 600 is another story.. I care about it and obviosly so do of folks posting here.. but the avg american doesnt have an HD tv.. so Bluray is not going to be a selling point the the average household.. and they are the ones who will decide which format wins..

ANd if you look at most of europe.. HD cable ( a selling point of recording HD cable is used by both HD-DVD and Bluray ) is virtually non existent compared to USA and Japan..

Ps2 was a different beast .. it had an integrated DVD which was already a long established standard.. guys I used to work with at CompUSA bought one solely one the fact they could also play DVD they had and play their old PS One games.. PS1 had also a huge advantage because it was putting games on CD where are Nintendo 64 still used cartridges.. the game makers liked making more profit off those cd games because they didnt have to absorb the loss they took on the price of integrated boards and memory inside a N64 game..

HD-DVD already exist.. its quality is equal to Blu Ray. HD DVD movies already exist.. its price is cheaper now and will be even cheaper when Blu Ray comes out..

I have no doubt from what friends and gaming Colleagues say that Nintendo Wii could be a good turning point for Nintendo..



RE: .
By rushfan2006 on 5/11/2006 2:29:52 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
umm... ps3 has a built in next-gen dvd player built in. no console add-on was ever successful. $600 ps3 has FREE online play.


You folks justifying the $600 price tag with "um it has a next gen dvd player" are the EXACT minute audience that Sony is pitching that at. The rest of the majority audience are the folks who will have a very rough time justifying $600 and no they really won't give a crap about the blu-ray dvd. Why? Most people think GAMES with a console..not HD-movies..."but it'll play games in HD smart ass"....um...so? If the grabs are kicking, which I'm sure they will be -- again, the majority consumer isn't go to fork out an extra $200-$300 just so the graphics are HD....especially if you have a decent tv at home with component connections already.

Also..we clearly have different definitions of better..."ppl will pay more for a better product. ps3 = l33t". Better to me = quality+value, its all relative but $600 is no value for a game console.



RE: NOT TO MENTION....
By ViperROhb34 on 5/12/2006 1:39:44 PM , Rating: 2
The games are already High Definition !

I have my Xbox 360 playing Xbox 360 games at 1080i resolution.. older games ( See Xbox 1 ) like Halo 2 are only 720 on the Xbox 360, but thats still high defition..



RE: .
By Decaydence on 5/11/2006 6:51:46 PM , Rating: 2
People who tout ps3's built-in next-gen dvd player are missing a huge factor; what if blu-ray doesn't pan out? At least with the 360, you have flexibility with the add-on. If things don't go well for blu-ray, it would be about as useful as having a beta-max player built into your Atari Jaguar. If you are going to be adopting the next-gen formats, you are crazy if you aren't either getting a dual format player or waiting for a clear winner.


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