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Mercedes Hybrid  (Source: CNET)
Mercedes hybrid vehicles will not be able to drive on electric power alone

Hybrid cars are quickly becoming a popular way for drivers to save at the pumps and help save the environment. While the long-term savings offered by a hybrid vehicle when compared to a normal gasoline engine are debatable, hybrids continue to thrive.

Japanese automakers have been offering hybrid cars for many years now and one of the first hybrids to hit the market was Toyota's Prius. German luxury carmakers like BMW and Mercedes have yet to produce a production hybrid vehicle. Mercedes points out that it instead focused on diesel engines and has diesel engines that are comparable on fuel efficiency to electric hybrids.

Diesels may sell well in Europe, but in America, the diesel engine is not a popular choice. Due partly to these concerns, Mercedes finally announced that it will bring a hybrid vehicle to the U.S. and Europe. Business Week reports that Mercedes will offer a hybrid version of its S-Class luxury sedan which will first be available in Europe in June of 2009.

Mercedes reports that the hybrid S-Class will be available in the U.S. and China in September 2009. The hybrid S-Class will get overall fuel economy of about 29.8 miles per gallon. For comparison, Honda recently announced its Insight would offer fuel economy of around 71 miles per gallon.

Mercedes thinks that its average affluent buyer isn’t ready for a Prius or an Insight, but a hybrid S-Class would be appealing and would help improve how the Mercedes buyer feels about owning such a large car. The exact price of the hybrid option hasn’t been determined by Mercedes at this time. Mercedes Sales and Marketing Director, Klaus Maier, says that the hybrid S-class would likely carry a premium over the stock S-class of around $14,000. Add that to the starting price of $88,000 and you get an idea of the sales price.

Mercedes reportedly doesn't use a hybrid system similar to what is common in the Toyota Prius with large batteries and the ability for short bursts of full-electric driving. The Mercedes system uses a lithium-ion battery that is slightly larger than a typical car battery. The hybrid battery stores under the hood as well, meaning that S-class owners will see no reduction in interior or trunk space by choosing the hybrid option.

The electric hybrid motor will supplement the six-cylinder gasoline engine producing 279-horsepower during acceleration to help improve fuel economy. The Mercedes hybrid system will also use regenerative braking to help recharge the battery.

Mercedes also points out that its lithium-ion battery is one of the main innovations of its hybrid system. The new battery technology allows the complete hybrid system in the S-type to add only 165 pounds of total weight to the car. Mercedes also makes clear that its lithium-ion battery system has no potential to overheat.

The S-class is the first hybrid in what Mercedes envisions as a complete line of more environmentally friendly luxury vehicles. The luxury carmaker plans to offer one new hybrid vehicle each year after the debut of the S-class hybrid.

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Mercedes-Benz C Gets 45 MPG
By jw6594 on 9/15/2008 1:23:31 PM , Rating: 2
With the Mercedes-Benz C 250 CDI BlueEFFICIENCY getting 45 MPG at a similar price point it might be a better choice. And at least then you are getting close the the MPG of a cheaper hybrid and still maintaining some level of luxury.

http://www.thetorquereport.com/2008/09/post_14.htm...




RE: Mercedes-Benz C Gets 45 MPG
By Cullinaire on 9/15/2008 2:40:08 PM , Rating: 2
That's a limited edition vehicle. Plus, I don't see how the market for the S and C class overlap. That they are both "green" isn't enough.


RE: Mercedes-Benz C Gets 45 MPG
By lagomorpha on 9/16/2008 1:40:27 AM , Rating: 2
The size and level of luxury of a C class (the baby Mercedes/entry level Mercedes for America) has nothing to do with the size and level of luxury of an S class.

http://mx.youtube.com/watch?v=19OPLnjVA4U


RE: Mercedes-Benz C Gets 45 MPG
By sxr7171 on 9/22/2008 6:51:14 PM , Rating: 2
Diesel in the US still has not come of age. What can you do?


Rather give my money to ...
By Duffus on 9/15/2008 6:12:38 PM , Rating: 2
I'm not sure about the MB but I looked at the Lexus GS gas vs. hybrid and I would rather give my money to a company like Lexus or MB that is investing in hybrid technology - even thought the long term savings are nil - than give that same money to OPEC who is thinking about cutting production to maintain prices...




RE: Rather give my money to ...
By Gzus666 on 9/15/2008 6:14:54 PM , Rating: 2
So the car that gets 12 mpg will maybe get slightly more? Yea, you are right, that is a good plan, why buy something efficient? Assuming that is what you are after. But nevermind that, you will show OPEC.


RE: Rather give my money to ...
By Duffus on 9/15/2008 6:31:01 PM , Rating: 2
That is not the point. Reward the people who are actually doing something - Not the vultures like OPEC. And your comment about making a difference... it's like voting. Enough people make a difference.


RE: Rather give my money to ...
By Gzus666 on 9/15/2008 6:33:09 PM , Rating: 2
Whatever you have to tell yourself.


What a Joke
By Gzus666 on 9/15/2008 11:43:16 AM , Rating: 2
Last hybrid I have seen in the luxury sector was the LS600H, which was about $20k more, weighed more, and produced 1 more mpg in the city, and lost 1 on the highway compared to the non-hybrid counterpart. I have a feeling this will follow suit. Does this move make sense to anyone?




RE: What a Joke
By adiposity on 9/15/2008 12:31:21 PM , Rating: 2
Well, the GS 400H improved over the standard GS in a lot of ways, and was actually priced less than the GS430 at the time (if you included the "premium package," which is the only package the GS400H shipped with). I don't think it was ever too popular, but it did get better mileage and was cheaper. I guess it goes to show how overpriced those cars are in the first place.

Dan


RE: What a Joke
By Zoomer on 9/16/2008 10:27:17 PM , Rating: 2
Of course it makes sense; it makes for good marketing and will push more sales.

Fuel economy is a secondary concern for this class of vehicles.


safe
By castormalin on 9/15/2008 11:50:02 AM , Rating: 2
Are the lithium batteries very safe ? I mean, some of these overheat and take fire in laptop.




RE: safe
By Drexial on 9/15/2008 12:14:39 PM , Rating: 2
That's only if the quality of the manufacturing process is compromised. which it was in that case. I'm sure, especially for use in a car, they will hold the quality to a high level of scrutiny.


RE: safe
By Mojo the Monkey on 9/17/2008 6:51:45 PM , Rating: 1
yeah, but over millions of (eventual) implementations and varying road/strain/crash conditions, I can hardly wait for the superfires!


hippies
By vapore0n on 9/15/2008 1:17:19 PM , Rating: 1
Mercedes just needed to show that they care about the environment.

Too bad this car is not really for the masses, but more for those that already have a Hummer in every color available.




RE: hippies
By Suntan on 9/15/2008 4:04:56 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Too bad this car is not really for the masses,


That's ok. No current hybrid is "currently for the masses." They are all for people that *want* to own a hybrid.

-Suntan


Who cares?
By Optimummind on 9/15/2008 8:48:33 PM , Rating: 3
I don't know why people keep arguing and saying stuff like, "Wow, only a true MB lover would buy this" or "People who buy this car is all about the image and no practicality." If a person has a disposable income and he/she decides to spend so-and-so amount of money on an item, that's his/her freedom. There is no need to criticize them and speculate about their hidden or additional motives/intentions or guess about their supposed superficiality. It's their money and they can spend it however they want. Those people who speculate about the integrity and character of people who spend a lot of money on cars such as this just end up appearing to be bitter, jealous poor or middle-class people.




Nice
By TheFace on 9/15/2008 11:41:01 AM , Rating: 2
I'll take two, one for the weekend, and one for the workweek.




Weight
By lagomorpha on 9/15/2008 6:10:57 PM , Rating: 2
"The new battery technology allows the complete hybrid system in the S-type to add only 165 pounds of total weight to the car."

I have a feeling the 4465 lb S-Class won't mind the extra weight...




Mercedes, not in the hybrid class
By Jay2tall on 9/16/2008 8:49:15 AM , Rating: 2
My thought on this whole matter is, Mercedes doesn't have the majority of there perspective market looking for a hybrid car. If you can afford an $88,000 car you can afford the gas to go in it. Mercedes has an image associated with it rather than good fuel economy. The average Benz shopper is looking for style, image, size, power, that a Mercedes can deliver. Fuel economy is low on their list. I believe this vehicle is meant to cater to the small percentage of their market that IS looking for a hybrid vehicle that gets better than the average Benz fuel economy. If you are looking for a hybrid, you are looking at Toyota, Honda, or other companies that are in that game.

My own opinion is that the HIGHER end all electric cars are where the technology is at. I think these are the vehicles that will make a large impact on the rest of the hybrid or full electric car market. The Tesla and Volt will incorporate the latest and greatest tech and that will trickle down to the cheaper vehicles over time. Companies are recognizing that the Lithium ion batteries need to be smaller and more powerful, electric motors need to be more efficient, etc. Before the hybrid concept, we didn't need to improve on these technologies at the pace we do now. Research goes into what the consumer is looking for, and now this is what they want. Give it 5 years, you will be amazed at what is going to churn up. Our whole concept of fuel and power is going to start changing drastically in the next 10-20 years. We are starting to recognize what is happening to our climate, whether it is our fault, the natural course of things, or a combination of both. Sharp is investing in Solar technology, and other companies in wind and other means to produce power. If we can generate clear electricity and have an abondance of it, you will see electric cars being produced like made. They will go further and charge faster. I give it 10 years before we start seeing a huge shift but until then. I'm driving my 2004 Honda Accord that gets 25-30mpg. I'll wait for the good stuff to come.




Hmmm....
By JasonMick (blog) on 9/15/08, Rating: -1
RE: Hmmm....
By Cygni on 9/15/2008 12:04:55 PM , Rating: 5
You clearly arent a Mercedes customer. They are looking for people who desperately want to prove their self worth to their neighbors and friends, and do so with an overpriced, huge, heavy, unreliable car that looks the same as every other luxury car on the market. Adding a hybrid power train will just suck in MORE people attempting to show off.

Luxury cars are a huge joke.


RE: Hmmm....
By therealnickdanger on 9/15/2008 12:36:50 PM , Rating: 5
quote:
They are looking for people who desperately want to prove their self worth to their neighbors and friends

Just because you're jealous doesn't mean owners of these cars are trying to make you so.

Interesting opinion, but buying a luxury car is rarely about OTHER people. Most people buy the best that they can afford because we like things like luxury, technology, features, spaciousness, and safety (whether actual or the illusion of it). Sure, there are some people that may care more about what their neighbors think (I've seen "My Super Sweet 16" as well.)

Given the choice between a stiff cloth seat and a supple suede seat with built-in heaters and coolers and perhaps even a massager, I go with the latter for ME, not for YOU. Given the choice between a inept 3-cylinder hybrid with space-age lightweight interior components and a twin-turbo V12 that is more elegant and luxurious than any room in my house, again I would go with the latter.

You claim these people are buying these vehicles to show off to others, but I would argue that people everywhere of every class like to have NICE THINGS. Obviously, people that earn 500K/yr versus 50K/yr will have relatively NICER THINGS to own. Don't be a hater.


RE: Hmmm....
By Suntan on 9/15/2008 4:00:11 PM , Rating: 2
I would only add that there are cars a lot more pretentious than an S Class in the same price range. A lot of people don’t even know where the S Class fits w/ regards to an E or C Class.

If you wanted to stand out and “show off your wealth” there are lot of cars more aligned to this than an S Class.

That said, a hybrid S Class makes about as much sense as well… a hybrid Lexus.

-Suntan


RE: Hmmm....
By mmcdonalataocdotgov on 9/16/2008 11:12:26 AM , Rating: 2
I am in agreement with you on the luxury for me issue, but please note: "a twin-turbo V12" is a pokey 6-cylinder, in this case. So the buyer of this car may want luxury for themselves, but they will suffer for it given the immense weight of this vehicle. I am pretty sure most of the fuel economy gains will be from this de-tuned 6 banger, and not from the electric boost. IMHO.


RE: Hmmm....
By sxr7171 on 9/22/2008 6:56:45 PM , Rating: 2
Then why is it that people will commute to work by themselves (one person in the car) in a huge S-class or even worse a fricking massive SUV? Do they need all the space for one person and their 44oz drink? If you don't think this is about conspicuous consumption then I don't know what you think.

Personally if I won the lottery, I would still never need anything more than an M3 for my daily driver. (this isn't to say that I wouldn't have something kept under wraps for weekend driving, but it would be a nice sports car not a massive huge tank).


RE: Hmmm....
By silversound on 9/15/2008 12:54:51 PM , Rating: 2
Its the seperation of social classes, not a joke...

make more $ and step into higher classes, you will see.
Never been to LA or NYC?


RE: Hmmm....
By littlebitstrouds on 9/15/2008 5:44:55 PM , Rating: 2
Leave New York out of it. We're so crammed in here, using the words separation and New York City is an oxy moron.


RE: Hmmm....
By micha90210 on 9/15/2008 9:06:54 PM , Rating: 2
Mercedes unreliable? You're living in a cave.


RE: Hmmm....
By Gzus666 on 9/15/2008 10:41:41 PM , Rating: 1
And apparently you know nothing about cars. European cars are pretty horrible on the reliability front. Their engines are usually quite solid, that is about where that stops. Transmissions, control modules, electrical nightmares, suspension problems left and right. How about those fantastic air actuated locks? Work on a European car and you will see the joy. Granted, Mercedes isn't as bad as Audi or Volvo, since you pretty much have to rebuild the front end every 50k miles on an Audi, and Volvo, god, don't get me started.

Just for reference, I'm an ASE Master, worked for Lexus, Toyota and Volvo. While I haven't worked on cars as a profession for about 3 years, I still have a feeling I'm a bit more qualified to speak about them.


RE: Hmmm....
By Andrevas on 9/16/2008 1:52:17 AM , Rating: 2
and you obviously don't know anything about working on Audis.

-an Audi tech


RE: Hmmm....
By Samus on 9/16/2008 6:19:57 AM , Rating: 2
European car's unreliable? Your joking right? What's reliable then, your Dodge Neon? Jesus christ I don't know where to begin...

First, european cars have always pioneered safety. I'm not talking about a Volvo steel cage...I'm talking about air bags, antilock brakes, vented rotors, coolant expansion tanks, flame-resistant brake fluid, tail end parking brake, the center brake light, traction control, side-marker turn signals, heated mirrors, i'm ganna stop here. Most of these things were first seen on an S-class.

I've never owned a Mercedes, however, it's pretty common knowledge the C230 is one of the most reliable cars in the world. Don't even try to argue it. Go ahead, humor yourself and do a google search. Find someone who's had something break before 150k miles. Dare you.

Let's not forget that even though the Japanese have most of the competition beat on fuel efficiency, it's usually at the sacrifice of handling/ride quality/weight. The new Civic and most economy toyota's have a solid rear axle to save weight and be more fuel efficient. This is a joke of an idea. They're doing it to save money and give you a shitty product. A good example of how every front wheel drive car's rear suspension should be setup is the Ford Focus (the ZX3 and ZX5 are 100% European-Ford designed, and are also the best selling car's in the WORLD.)

Yes, go ahead, look it up...no its ok I'll do it for you.

The Focus, European engineered and designed, is the best selling vehicle in the WORLD.

http://forums.motortrend.com/70/6845146/the-genera...

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4182/is_20...

Sure, the best selling car in America is the Camry, but it was the Taurus for 12 years in a row before it, and ironically, the Camry of today is half the quality it was in the 90's when the Taurus still reigned. You can't compare one culture to the world.

The world and its hundreds of cultures have decided against your hate for european cars, because of their supposed reliability problems, their supposedly difficult maintenance....european cars probably outsell Japanese and American cars COMBINED worldwide.

Besides, they look cooler, too.


RE: Hmmm....
By Gzus666 on 9/16/2008 9:12:46 AM , Rating: 2
Dodge Neon? Dodge was run by Daimler during those years, champ. Guess who Daimler is? That would be Mercedes. Mercedes engines, long blocks that is, are solid as can be, and made with the utmost of quality. The rest cannot be said about other parts of their cars. I didn't say Europeans didn't pioneer things, or design great things, on the contrary, they have pretty good designs, it is just when they keep re-engineering things over and over and over again, they start to break a lot. When I worked for Volvo, there were VIN breaks on every vehicle where they would change a part 3 times mid year, that is insane. And I am talking completely change it, not a slight tweak. Toyota kicks any European car's ass in quality, that is fact. In fact, last I saw, most every Japanese company, Chevrolet, and Ford all beat the European companies in quality. C230 is a low end vehicle, what is there to break? It is just a little 4 cylinder with nothing special to the vehicle, no little gadgets everywhere to break. They kept it simple, and it paid off, once. They see it works, yet stray away. Compare European luxury cars to the likes of Acura, Infiniti, and Lexus, and it is dismal at best.

I know the Focus was designed by Europeans, that is probably why it is a pile of junk, ask anyone who has had one. Ford extended the warranty out on certain models because the valve seats would drop out of them, usually destroying everything. Valve seats dropping out of a head is insane in this day and age, manufacturing and engineering should be beyond that. Or how about the wonderful problem they had with lock cylinders? Constant replacement fun. Just cause a vehicle sells well, doesn't make it great.

If you want to go on about Ford, how about the F-150, best selling trunk, for around 10 years, they had the problem of blowing the spark plugs out of the head on the 4.6L, the Mustangs had the problems sometimes as well, but not as often, since Mustangs didn't tow, there by not putting the strain on the engine like the trucks had. The reason for this? They put about 3 threads for the spark plug to grab, so when under a load, the slightest ping would blow it sky high. Hell, my pop has a '98 F-150, he has blown 2 spark plugs on it, and the repair is to drill it out, and put in a machinists repair sleeve in, with quite a bit more threads. Ford never admitted they made that mistake, even with the tons of them blowing out.

Think about it this way, European cars are better off than a Cadillac, those are the pinnacle of junk. Every car has their common problems, some just more than others, and some of them are WAY more expensive than others for the repairs.


RE: Hmmm....
By Jay2tall on 9/16/2008 9:51:21 AM , Rating: 2
I'm sorry but I believe Dodge and Chrysler in general is the pinnacle of junk. I had a 2000 dodge ram and EVERY broke on it except the engine. That thing ran STRONG, but the tranny, rear end and every little pieced broke on it. I will say GM is a close second, and Ford is probably the better of the 3 "domestic" makers.

I'll stick with my Honda Accord. All I want is a car that I can do regular maintenance to and put gas in.

We won't even discuss why the "domestic" quality is in the crapper. But we will attribute it to employee cost and bad management. Hence the car cost the same to the consumer, but the cost of labor and top heavy management leave little room for quality parts. That $5 button used in a honda is only a $2 button in a GM.


RE: Hmmm....
By Runiteshark on 9/16/2008 9:51:36 AM , Rating: 2
Cadillac are junk? I see far more Old Caddilacs on the road then I've ever seen any Euro brand other then bugs, which had awesome air cooled engines.

The only thing I can think of bad wise for Caddy was the old Northstars they used to put in the El Dorado etc (4-5l). The head was so soft, if you blew a headgasket on those (a common occourence with the crap they used) you'd most likely have to completely replace all the headstuds (by this I mean drilling a new hole, threading it, etc), because the material they used on the head was so soft.


RE: Hmmm....
By Gzus666 on 9/16/2008 10:01:44 AM , Rating: 2
Cadillacs are notorious for head studs pulling out of the block, in which they released a TSB to repair them when it happened. They also leak like crazy, the water pump, the water pump cover, the water crossover, and the case half seals leak constantly. Not sure what you mean about the old Northstar 4.5L, as they never came in that size. If you are talking about the 4.5L though, yes it was a pile of junk, like pretty much any Caddy engine made between 1980-current, especially the old 4-6-8, what a joke that was.


RE: Hmmm....
By Runiteshark on 9/16/2008 10:44:43 AM , Rating: 2
No, I meant displacement between 4 through 5 liters. I can't remember the exact, but there were several with the issue.


RE: Hmmm....
By Jay2tall on 9/16/2008 10:04:39 AM , Rating: 2
That is because OLD domestic cards are prior to the crap quality standards of the last 10 years. I see tons of old Dodge rams with limited problems. You take my 2000 Ram and it has all the problems in the world. I wasn't alone either I had a few buddies in college that had the same problems. We all joked about how many times the tranny went.

The old Cadillac's were solid, that is why you see the old ones all over the place. Heck I saw an old one yesterday and didnt even squeek or knock.


RE: Hmmm....
By mmcdonalataocdotgov on 9/16/2008 11:15:13 AM , Rating: 2
European cars MADE in Europe are more reliable, I will give you that. But a Volkswagen or BMW delivered in the states is not going to be made in Europe, so therefore is crap. I got my Camry with a J code to make sure it was made in Japan, and not in the US. So everyone wins on this debate!


RE: Hmmm....
By Gzus666 on 9/16/2008 11:23:57 AM , Rating: 2
The problem you will find with your Japanese manufactured vehicle is oil leaks, and also squeaks and rattles in the states. This was so bad, that when I worked for Lexus (all the vehicles were made in Japan, not sure about now) they had seals leaking left and right, and I mean really leaking, not just dripping. This was so much a problem, that Lexus started requiring us to send the seal and oil samples back to them. The thing was, after you put the American made seal, it no longer leaked, and they didn't know why. As for the rattles, this is caused by climate differences between here and there, but still a problem none the less, as they don't insulate their clips used for the dash or anything that goes to it. Most of the time the fix for rattles on a Toyota/Lexus was to cover the clips with felt, or to squeeze something behind the dash pad to tighten it up, and stop movement.


RE: Hmmm....
By Gzus666 on 9/16/2008 8:56:54 AM , Rating: 2
An Audi tech is the equivalent of a person who is smug because they work on Dells. I have yet to meet an Audi tech who knows their head from their ass, let alone anything about cars. Parts replacers at best about 95% of the time, and the rest haven't even pulled a transmission apart (automatic or manual). If you seriously work for Audi, you know most of your money is made by rebuilding those front ends. Then there is always the fun TTs that drop the valves. Or how about the ingenious design of putting a timing belt and a chain on the same engine. You're right, I have nothing on the mighty Audi tech. Let me know when you can rebuild a starter, let alone a transmission.


RE: Hmmm....
By Runiteshark on 9/16/2008 9:48:14 AM , Rating: 2
Totally agree. I'm not going to say I'm a master mechanic, but I can do quite a bit myself (Change cams, remove the block, change tranny, etc). Audi isn't very good when it comes to service and are defiantly just parts replacers.

A poor friend of mine had an Audi TT, and as you already said, they love dropping the exhaust valves. Thankfully, there are quite a few in the junkyard up here wrecked or just decrepit so parts are easy to come by to a degree. However, the same could be said about Nissan (Well Go Nissan Arapahoe here in denver). They had no idea whenever they did an inspection what happened when I slid my 350z into a divider at the track and jacked up my entire passanger side suspension.

Their master technician said "Alignment is not good, would not drive" When both damn wheels were positively cambered and towed in to a large amount. You could clearly tell that the control arms, etc were all bent, but this dumbass could only say that he wouldn't drive it, and then the parts list was just general parts in the whole area (spindle, hub, upper/lower control etc).

Anyway, people also don't seem to remember how bad Audi's were back prior to 04 with their constant electrical problems, or VW with their horrible window tabs.


RE: Hmmm....
By Gzus666 on 9/16/2008 9:55:18 AM , Rating: 2
Agreed, there are some idiots in the mechanical world, one of the many reasons I got out of it. Love the work, especially the troubleshooting, but the people are jackasses, it's hard to make money without being a thief, a lot of the documentation is getting horrible, etc. There are lots of parts replacers everywhere, that I will concede, but the European car companies tend to breed even more of them, since they pretty much repair nothing, replace everything. But, in some of the parts replacers defense, you almost have to in the environment anymore with how little they pay for warranty work, which is the bulk of the work anymore.


RE: Hmmm....
By 306maxi on 9/16/2008 6:11:15 AM , Rating: 2
Mercedes commonly score very badly in reliability tests so they're right.


RE: Hmmm....
By Samus on 9/16/2008 5:56:10 AM , Rating: 2
I've always driven small cars, the largest I've ever owned is a 1990 Honda Accord, followed by a 98 Protege (Escort sized) and my Focus SVT Hatchback. I've always owned a Mustang as well, also a small car.

However, there is no denying my love for my Dad's Lincoln LS. Everytime I drive it I feel remarkably disconnected from the world. It's silent, its responsive, and you don't feel any vibrations or bumps...it's really nice. $40k & 20mpg though...


RE: Hmmm....
By chrnochime on 9/16/2008 10:27:23 AM , Rating: 2
It only look the same as every other luxury car because you don't know better.
The old MB W-140 which ended production back in 2001 were over-engineered, very reliable and last a very long time. It's not uncommon to see them go past 100k with just doing the usual required wear/tear parts replacement. The current W221 is aimed to bring faith back to MB after the W220 so hopefully it approached the standard set by the W140.MB has been on the initiative to make their current and future gen cars(started with the current C-class) much more reliable, and the W221 is no exception.

There are people who buy these cars not only for status but also all-around competence in the area of handling(for its class don't go comparing to an Elise), safety, quietness, and so on. If someone can afford to buy said car all the power to them. Now saying they're jokes....ha.


RE: Hmmm....
By Drexial on 9/15/2008 12:06:34 PM , Rating: 2
"$14,000. Add that to the starting price of $88,000"

so its actually closer to $102,000 Which I know everyone that buys a $88,000 car would be very concerned about the cost of gas.


RE: Hmmm....
By theapparition on 9/15/2008 12:12:45 PM , Rating: 2
Same could be said about a 100K+ Tesla roadster, or any of the myriads of 100K+ hybrids and plug-ins due to hit the market. Not feasible for the average person........so stop the comparisons. Not relevant.

Obviously, you're getting something extra with one of these versus the Insight or Prius. Only the potential buyer has the right to judge whether the cost delta warrants a purchase.


RE: Hmmm....
By JasonMick (blog) on 9/15/2008 1:13:43 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Same could be said about a 100K+ Tesla roadster, or any of the myriads of 100K+ hybrids and plug-ins due to hit the market.


Except this new model isn't a plug in.

If you're paying a premium for a hybrid and can afford a luxury car, wouldn't you want a full electric like the volt or tesla roadster (which I may add have a backup fuel tank/engine so range is not an issue), as opposed to a half-hearted measure like this?

I would be excited if Mercedes offered a full electric, absolutely, but with the significant bump up and the price tag, the minimal electric engine features on this car seem pretty extraneous...

This might have a place in the market for a short while, but once full electrics start selling well, luxury hybrids (non-plug in) will be supplanted by luxury plug ins. Thus Mercedes should focus their hybrid efforts in that direction imo.


RE: Hmmm....
By theapparition on 9/15/2008 3:26:38 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
If you're paying a premium for a hybrid and can afford a luxury car, wouldn't you want a full electric like the volt or tesla roadster

I can't belive you're arguing this point. The Tesla Roadster is anything BUT a luxury car. Don't you get that?

For someone who wants a luxury car AND wants to spend gobs of money extra for little gain, but get's that pseudo "I'm doing better for the enviroment" garbage, thier ownly choices are this or the Lexus.

Either one is, IMHO, way overpriced for virtually no gain, but don't go comparing this to a Tesla or Insight. Feel free to be disappointed. Could they have done better, yes. Did they remain competitive with other current Luxury Hybrid options, yes.


RE: Hmmm....
By Smartless on 9/15/2008 4:49:16 PM , Rating: 2
Hmm I sense the SMUG emissions alone from this car could make the world disappear up its own ass.


RE: Hmmm....
By Polynikes on 9/15/2008 1:38:43 PM , Rating: 2
Hey, obscenely rich people have a right to be green, too, you know. That is, without driving a fugly car. Because form is more important than function for such people. It's all about the image, green/nice car, rather than green/ugly car.


RE: Hmmm....
By Lord 666 on 9/15/2008 2:01:46 PM , Rating: 2
Can that Insight 2 carry two or more full golf bags to the country club? The S class can. Not everything is about ultimate fuel economy at the expense of usefulness.

I can also see these being used for car service fleets in addition to company leases for execs as standard S classes are used


RE: Hmmm....
By Souka on 9/15/2008 2:46:15 PM , Rating: 2
What are fuel economy differences between the hybrid and non-hybrid Mercedes? I don't see that information.

I'd like to see EPA city & Highway, plus a 3rd party combined average comparing the two.


RE: Hmmm....
By pauldovi on 9/15/2008 5:29:09 PM , Rating: 2
That is a pretty retarded statement. With that logic everyone would be driving around in a $15k Toyota Yaris....

I don't understand why you think that a "full electric" vehicle is superior to a parallel hybrid vehicle. What Mercedes is going after here is the "mild hybrid" which is sort of like "picking the lowest fruit on the tree". You get the majority of the benefits of a hybrid without the complexity, size, weight, and cost. This is the same strategy that GM has taken with the Chevy Malibu hybrid and a system I think you are going to see on all cars in the future.

Besides, the Volt is going to be $45k MSRP with a nice $10-$15k mark up if the demand is anywhere near as high as people are claiming with GM only making 10,000 cars in year 1.

Parallel hybrids > Series Hybrid > Electric vehicle


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