Print 54 comment(s) - last by Alexvrb.. on Sep 10 at 9:03 PM

The fourth generation Miata bring with its SKYACTIV technology

The Mazda MX-5 Miata has been with us for 25 years, and in that time we’ve seen three generations of the fun, lightweight convertible. The current generation, the “NC” model was first introduced in 2005, so it’s long overdue for a replacement.
Luckily, the “ND” Miata has just been unveiled at a press event in Monterey, California. We first got a look at the ND’s chassis back in mid-April. At the time, Mazda said it was able to trim an amazing 220 pounds from the chassis by using SKYACTIV technology.
At today’s unveil, that figure holds true, with Mazda indicating that trim-for-trim, the ND Miata will be 220 pounds lighter than the comparable NC Miata (that would allow a base 2016 Miata to tip the scales at around 2220 pounds). Mazda was able to achieve the big weight drop thanks in part to the use aluminum for the hood, trunk lid, and front/rear bumper assemblies.

And in a world where it seems as though each new generation of vehicles is getting bigger and bigger, the new Miata actually shrank 3” in length. The wheelbase has also been trimmed by 0.6” in length, although Mazda says that the reduction hasn’t resulted in a loss of passenger room.

As for the engines, Mazda is still being tightlipped about the displacements for the engines going under the new Miata’s hood, but a quick look at the top down see-through image of the Miata shows that it employs SKYACTIV technology. We’re still guessing that the 2.0-liter unit will show up in the production model.

For now, this is all we know about the ND Miata. The vehicle will make its “official” debut at the L.A. Auto Show in November, so we should get full details at that time.

Source: Mazda

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Wishing for the days when
By FITCamaro on 9/4/2014 7:51:57 AM , Rating: 1
Most muscle cars didn't weigh near or over 4000 pounds.

30" wheels didn't fit in the wheel wells of most passenger cars including muscle cars.

Manuals were more prevalent.


RE: Wishing for the days when
By Brandon Hill on 9/4/2014 7:53:36 AM , Rating: 2
I hear ya on the big-ass wheels trend. The ND Miata in the pictures above is sitting on 16" wheels. 17" wheels of the same design are optional.

RE: Wishing for the days when
By FITCamaro on 9/4/2014 9:37:31 AM , Rating: 2
Yeah smaller sports cars like the Miata and BRZ are the only ones left that are affordable and not succumbed to that crap.

Even BMWs are coming with 20" wheels and while they might not fit a 30" in the wheel well, easily fits into the mid-20s.

RE: Wishing for the days when
By Spuke on 9/4/2014 7:41:58 PM , Rating: 2
20's aren't standard on BMW's. Standard wheels on BMW's are 17's and 18's. 18's are the most common. If you saw 20's it was optional or aftermarket.

RE: Wishing for the days when
By Alexvrb on 9/4/2014 10:03:17 PM , Rating: 2
The largest reason they don't have bigger rims on those cars is the lack of space and/or suspension limitations. If they could fit bigger wheels on those from the factory without any risk of rubbing, increases to ride height, or substantial increases to unsprung weight, it would be a factory or dealer installed option. Heck, to some extent maybe it is an option... a bigger wheel with a slimmer tire would fit fine.

People want larger rims and thinner tires for various reasons (some performance, some purely appearance). Oldschool high-profile tires are losing popularity, and I can't say I entirely miss them. These days high profile tires are only typically better for vehicles using cheap stamped steel wheels, because stamped steel must remain relatively small or the unsprung weight becomes a problem. The tires also tend to be cheaper.

Low profile on the other hand are more costly, as are the larger wheels they stick them on. However, they can also provide performance benefits - if they're sized right for the vehicle and you're using good modern lightweight wheels. Something about improved contact patches and less sidewall flex blah blah. Anyway it's not strictly an appearance thing, at least for well-selected combinations (OE or otherwise). If however you change to a combination that raises ride height and/or significantly increases unsprung weight, then you can potentially cause more harm than good - depending on vehicle and usage.

RE: Wishing for the days when
By Flunk on 9/4/2014 10:22:24 AM , Rating: 2
2015 Mustang GT is 3729lbs and comes with 19" rims, that's close to what you want isn't it?

If you want something tossable maybe a hot hatch is for you like a WRX (ok, not a hatch) or Focus ST (FWD, yes I know). This is actually what I'm thinking about for a next car, muscle car or hot hatch.

I completely understand your feelings, I wish the muscle cars were a bit smaller and lighter. They've all expanded up to the size of the Titanic, especially the Challenger with looks like a caricature of a classic Challenger.

RE: Wishing for the days when
By ElFenix on 9/4/2014 12:45:56 PM , Rating: 2
The classic Challenger is actually wider than the current one, and the current is only ~6" longer. The classic is a pretty darn big car. The fat new Mustang actually has a smaller footprint than a classic Challenger.

RE: Wishing for the days when
By FITCamaro on 9/4/2014 4:00:01 PM , Rating: 2
3729 is no lightweight though. But its still better than the Camaro or Challenger. The Challenger is well over 4000 pounds. The Camaro is slightly lower.

RE: Wishing for the days when
By Reclaimer77 on 9/4/2014 9:11:36 PM , Rating: 2
Pretty sure the 2015 Mustang GT's 11.36 pounds per horsepower destroys any 1970's Muscle Car power to weight ratio though.

I find the new Camaro and Challenger disgusting gigantic road pigs in an absurd "retro" wrapper. Do those idiots even get that it's 2014? How many people are still around that actually remember and want "Muscle Cars" anyway?

RE: Wishing for the days when
By Spuke on 9/5/2014 1:29:59 AM , Rating: 2
I'll take a Challenger Hellcat, pig or not.

RE: Wishing for the days when
By FITCamaro on 9/5/2014 4:29:40 PM , Rating: 2
Well my dream is still a 67-69 Camaro.

RE: Wishing for the days when
By BillyBatson on 9/6/2014 2:10:35 PM , Rating: 2
Agreed. My dreams are a 68' SS and 71' SS-RS

RE: Wishing for the days when
By Reclaimer77 on 9/6/2014 2:30:58 PM , Rating: 2
You know how you think you really want something, then once you have it it's not as gratifying as you thought it would be?

Yeah, that's how it would feel to own a 69 Camaro in 2014. Poor ride, poor handling, poor brakes, horrible interior etc etc. Power isn't even all that great by today's standards.

RE: Wishing for the days when
By Jedi2155 on 9/6/2014 5:50:18 PM , Rating: 2
Rice it out.

RE: Wishing for the days when
By Alexvrb on 9/4/2014 9:35:57 PM , Rating: 2
There are reasons for their size and weight. It's not like they just shoved lead weights everywhere. With that being said, I'm looking forward to seeing what they can do with the Alpha based Camaro. Regarding the Miata, they're neat little cars but they've always been kind of dogs stock. Fun to drive, needs more power. I don't predict a dramatic departure from that formula. I miss the Solstice/Sky, especially in turbo trim. Now THOSE were some fast, great handling convertibles for the money.

Hopefully you'll still be able to fit a Chevy small block in the new Miata. Some of the best Miatas out there are conversions with LS engines. Weight distribution isn't any worse than a built up turbo setup, either. Hmm, they could even potentially utilize the new DI LT series.

RE: Wishing for the days when
By Reclaimer77 on 9/4/2014 9:50:12 PM , Rating: 2
The Miata has stood alone for DECADES as THE fun-to-drive roaster.

The Sky/Solstice lasted a few years and ultimately failed.

But yeah, THOSE were clearly way better cars than the Miata LMAO...

RE: Wishing for the days when
By Alexvrb on 9/4/2014 10:26:41 PM , Rating: 2
Right, and it had nothing to do with both Pontiac and Saturn closing their doors. Also, since when are sales alone indicative of a vehicle's on-road performance? If the Miata sold only 1000 every year I wouldn't automatically say it was a crappy car just because it didn't sell well. In fact, I never said the Miata was crap. By your standard, the S2000 was crap too, when it also was a good performer with a bulletproof engine.

Anyway, if you look at sales figures, the Miata is not exactly a high-volume car either and the Solstice/Sky were somewhat competitive with it in terms of sales which is pretty amazing given the Miata's fandom. I wish they released a second gen model as a better-performing brand like Buick or Chevy, and with some better advertising.

The Miata is a fine "roaster" but the Turbo'd Solstice/Sky was better. Ask Spuke.

RE: Wishing for the days when
By BZDTemp on 9/5/2014 1:45:05 PM , Rating: 2
More power doesn't automatically equal better. Sure the power of a top model Solstice must be fun, but if there are many issues you don't drive it much then that doesn't equal more fun than a MX-5. Also for the price of a Solstice GXP one could certainly get a MX-5 with a hefty power upgrade (Forced induction or even a V8).

For instance for a car to be worth anything is must run and the Miata is pretty much bulletproof (it has frequently been found in the top five when ever there are reliability statistics).

And a car also has to be working well enough that one can live with it every day (of course unless you only want to run it for the Sunday drives). Check out how you put the top down on a Solstice (thx to e-how):

1.Shift the Solstice into "Park" (automatic) or "First" (manual) and set the parking brake lever. Turn the engine off.

2. Open the glove box and press the trunk release button.

3. Get out the Solstice and open the trunk. Remove any items from the trunk floorboard.

4. Get back in the driver's seat and open the convertible latch (above rear view mirror). Turn the latch counterclockwise.

5. Grasp the front edge of the convertible top (above the windshield). Push the convertible top backwards.

6. Get out of the Solstice and fold the convertible top down into the trunk. Push down firmly to ensure it latches into place.

7. Push the trunk down firmly to close it. Ensure the trunk side latches are fully down.

With a MX-5 one can do it from the driver seat and it's easily done 4-5 seconds just while waiting at a red light - and the same goes for putting the top up. If you only ever drives the car in sunshine and never park it where you need the hood up then the difference doesn't matter, but most places the sun does not always shine.

RE: Wishing for the days when
By Spuke on 9/5/2014 5:56:28 PM , Rating: 2
You obviously don't own a Solstice. I press the keyfob button to open the trunk, unlatch the windshield clasp, get out of the car, move the top into the trunk, close the trunk. Takes me longer to say it then to do it. I do remember Car and Driver or some other BS car rag giving their "steps" and how long it took them to put the top down. I would've already driven away while those old men were still putting their tops down.

More power doesn't automatically equal better.
And less power doesn't automatically equal better. The Solstice is a fun car and their owners love them (like I already mentioned). It's the msot fun car I've ever owned. is it perfect? Nope but humans are incapable of perfection so why seek it out? Two problems I see with the Solstice from the factory. OEM tires are way too pedestrian. Swap out for something more aggressive. Shocks are too ride friendly. Swap out for some Koni's. I would also add in a more aggressive alignment (at least -2 degrees up front, -1.5 in the back...this is what I run no plates or notching needed).

RE: Wishing for the days when
By Alexvrb on 9/5/2014 8:14:07 PM , Rating: 2
Thanks Spuke. I think you've pretty well covered everything - except maybe for his reliability rhetoric. A friend of mine had a GXP and it was all around great. Fantastic performance, extremely reliable, tough little car. That's not unusual for them, either.

Anyway I would agree that the OEM tires are too tame and hold it back probably more than anything at stock.

RE: Wishing for the days when
By Reclaimer77 on 9/5/2014 9:07:19 PM , Rating: 2
lol yeah, cause Pontiac just crushes Mazda on quality and reliability as well all know.

*looks around*

Hey what happened to Pontiac again??

Are you serious about the GXP? That was a TERRIBLE car with terrible build quality...

And that torque steer!!! Yesh. Yeah lets drop a V8 in a FWD car..LMAO!

They deserved to go away. Made crap after crap for decades.

RE: Wishing for the days when
By Alexvrb on 9/10/2014 9:03:40 PM , Rating: 2
You've just demonstrated you're not much of a car guy, let alone an honest and unbiased one. The Solstice was well-loved by its owners and the vehicles are very reliable. As for "the GXP" your ignorance is showing. The SOLSTICE GXP is a RWD roadster. That's the car I was talking about. The G8 GXP, also RWD. Both great vehicles.

The FWD Grand Prix GXP? I've driven one, the torque steer isn't that bad, even on dry pavement. If you're planning on doing hard launches on dry roads, just turn off traction control and let it fly, quite fun. It actually was a good performing large sedan for the money. V8 in a FWD car is fine. It would have been better if it had HiPer struts, but still was pretty decent. But that doesn't fit with your bias and hate.

So yeah, the Solstice GXP was a better car than the Miata. Sold pretty well and wins on the track and the street. With that being said, the Miata was still a nice enough car.

RE: Wishing for the days when
By BZDTemp on 9/6/2014 9:43:26 AM , Rating: 2
You're right - I don't own a Solstice.

I press the keyfob button to open the trunk, unlatch the windshield clasp, get out of the car, move the top into the trunk, close the trunk. Takes me longer to say it then to do it.

I think you forgot to put down the windows. Also there must be a reason there are instructional videos on youtube on how to do it :-)

No seriously - I'm not saying the Solstice is a bad car and in fact I thing it is a pretty nifty ride and I'll even go so far as to say some of it's quicks are adding character. However saying the Solstice is a better car than the Miata to me is wrong unless you wanna add a lot of conditions to that statement. Alost just as you can make a Solstice more fun by swapping some bits then so you can do with a Miata - however I doubt you can magically make the Solstice as light as a Miata and that means the laws of physics are on the side of the Miata.

Now back to the task of putting the hood up. Here is how you do it in a Miata. Unlatch the windshield clasp (or two if it's a 1st/2nd generation Miata), push the top up/back. That's it. To close the roof it is simply do the same in reverse, there is no getting out of the car and it can be done regardless if the windows are up or down. Time to do it is so short one can do it at a red light or in a stop/go line - if you have a passenger doing it then it can even be done at slow speeds (walking pace to maintain road safety).

There is also the question about having a trunk to put your luggage vs. a trunk that is more for storing the roof, but that is mainly relevant when going on longer drivers, using the car when shopping and so on.

My Miata works for everyday transport and also for the fun drives including going on Holiday and some track day excursions. By everyday I mean all year round be it sun, rain or snow and the point is really that the most fun car to me is the one you can drive all the time.

RE: Wishing for the days when
By Reclaimer77 on 9/6/2014 11:31:24 AM , Rating: 2
I respect Spuke and he has similar "car guy" sense like I do.

I admit I've tracked the Miata but not the Solstice. So as an actual Solstice owner, he's bringing a lot of weight to this.

Based on a lot of reviews and comparisons, it looks like the Solstice is a great car that came REALLY close to beating the Miata for top affordable roadster. But still comes up a little short.

Anyway the newest Solstice you can get is now 5 years old, while the Miata continues to be refined and improves it's position as THE affordable roadster and driver's car. This redesign is REALLY sexy imo.

RE: Wishing for the days when
By Reclaimer77 on 9/6/2014 5:13:26 PM , Rating: 2
Right, and it had nothing to do with both Pontiac and Saturn closing their doors

Ummm no?

Those were just re-branded GM's. Wtf did that have to do with anything? It's not like any actual companies closed...

RE: Wishing for the days when
By Spuke on 9/5/2014 1:40:59 AM , Rating: 2
The Sky/Solstice lasted a few years and ultimately failed.
They didn't fail Rec, they sold well. They also cleaned up in SCCA racing (one is STILL top 5). If you're going by Car and Driver reviews then you're deluded (any mag that blindly votes BMW is sh!t IMO). The cars are reliable and fun as hell (130k+ daily driver here...bought it new). And their owners love them. Pontiac and Saturn closed up shop plus the economy went to sh!t and no one was buying sports cars, that's why they aren't around anymore. The original plan was to migrate them to the Alpha platform but no more. I honestly thought that would be a bad move but guess I don't have to worry about that now.

RE: Wishing for the days when
By Spuke on 9/5/2014 1:44:57 AM , Rating: 2
BTW, I've driven every generation Miata and only the 1st gen is worth anything IMO. The rest flat out suck stock. It reminded me of my old 1992 Nissan Sentra SE-R but with RWD. That was a fun car but I expected the Miata to be MUCH more of a car and was supremely letdown. So letdown that I've driven the multiple times to see if I was FOS. I wasn't , they suck. I have ZERO idea why people think they're so awesome. The FRS/BRZ are MUCH better cars.

RE: Wishing for the days when
By Spuke on 9/5/2014 1:49:02 AM , Rating: 2
One more thing. I like the styling and the weight reduction of this new car. Hopefully, this time the car lives up to the hype. I'm not holding my breath though.

RE: Wishing for the days when
By Reclaimer77 on 9/5/2014 6:14:27 AM , Rating: 2
Well of course the BRZ is a better car. It's a Subaru! :)

In fact the BRZ is probably my next car. You know I love Subies, but there's always been a part of me that's longed for a rear-drive I can just toss around. Now I can have the best of both worlds!

But I can't really compare the two because the BRZ isn't a convertible.

RE: Wishing for the days when
By Spuke on 9/5/2014 10:11:36 AM , Rating: 2
Dude, get one it's awesome. Sure it doesn't have much power but it's fun.

RE: Wishing for the days when
By FITCamaro on 9/5/2014 4:31:09 PM , Rating: 2
Biggest thing I don't like about the BRZ/FRS is the tiny tires. Design the car so that you can put some meat in the wheel wells.

RE: Wishing for the days when
By Spuke on 9/5/2014 5:58:02 PM , Rating: 2
Stock tires are the same as the Prius. You can fit some good sized rubber under there with only 200hp and fairly lightweight, you don't need much.

RE: Wishing for the days when
By Reclaimer77 on 9/5/2014 6:56:19 PM , Rating: 2
What is with you redneck muscle car guys lol?

The BRZ on the stock wheel size did 69 mph on the slalom and a 0.92 G's on the skidpad!

What more do you want? It's dominated nearly every handling test reviewers throw at it...

RE: Wishing for the days when
By MikeMurphy on 9/7/2014 3:20:43 PM , Rating: 2
FITCamaro, weren't you just complaining about large wheels? A larger rubber footprint for the FRS/BRZ would help with cornering and braking at the expense of acceleration, cost, weight, fuel economy etc. The size chosen is sufficient given the engine's torque output.

Mazda should fire...
By shabby on 9/3/2014 10:00:13 PM , Rating: 2
the idiot who thought it would be a good idea to have duran duran take up 99% of the reveal time.

RE: Mazda should fire...
By Brandon Hill on 9/3/2014 10:13:30 PM , Rating: 3
Too true. I didn't mind Duran Duran, but there was just too much of them and not enough Miata.

RE: Mazda should fire...
By Samus on 9/4/2014 1:49:39 AM , Rating: 2
They should fire the director of marketing in North America as well. Hopefully it was the same person so they can kill two birds with one stone.

Marketing and a second-rate dealership network are what really holds Mazda's success back in the United States. Everywhere else in the world they are common and well known, from Europe to Australia. Their North American operations have always been borderline "ghetto" with how they treat customers, honor warranties, and tier option/equipment packages across their vehicles.

I currently have a Mazda CX-5 and it is arguably the best "dad mobile" you can buy in the CUV market. But God does it have some ridiculous flaws that don't exist in other markets, from side mirror designs to infotainment bugs to lack of technology to no diesel option when one has been promised for years.

RE: Mazda should fire...
By Murloc on 9/4/2014 5:47:34 AM , Rating: 2
actually madzas are very rare in Europe, or at least in the part of Europe I visit frequently or live in.

RE: Mazda should fire...
By Samus on 9/4/2014 6:10:01 AM , Rating: 1
The MX-5, CX-5, and 2 are popular in the UK. The MX-5 is the most popular Japanese sports car in Europe. But keep in mind, Mazda is a tiny car company. They only have three assembly plants in the world, two in the same city (Hiroshima, Japan) and one in Mexico that is just for "final assembly."

Mazda is the fastest growing car company in Europe. They sell about 180,000 vehicles there annually. That's good for a company that only sells 1.2 million vehicles annually world-wide, with the majority of sales in North America (the worlds largest car market.)

Where Mazda needs to focus is China, possibly assembling cars their for the market. But they are a very traditional, isolationist company. The Ford partnership was so against their grain its amazing it worked for two decades.

RE: Mazda should fire...
By GTVic on 9/4/2014 2:37:45 PM , Rating: 2
In Canada you can frequently find yourself in traffic with multiple Mazda 3's. Very popular.

Are you saying the mirror design of the CX-5 is different in other countries?

RE: Mazda should fire...
By bigi on 9/4/2014 8:37:23 AM , Rating: 2
I own 2 Mazda cars now. I must agree, their dealerships are a disgrace.

RE: Mazda should fire...
By Brandon Hill on 9/4/2014 9:30:57 AM , Rating: 2
I've owned one Mazda, and luckily, I didn't have to visit the dealership very often (had one warranty repair for the handbrake).

But the dealership service waiting area looked like a bomb shelter.

RE: Mazda should fire...
By sorry dog on 9/4/2014 10:15:04 AM , Rating: 2
I've been fortunate enough to get the opportunity to work on consulting project for Mazda USA a few years back, and the previous comment about their size is spot on. Compared to other mainstream car companies, they are very small, none of compartmentalization of GM where the left doesn't even know the right hand exists. I think corporate in California does quite well with what they have, and I was impressed by everybody working there. The dealership issue are something that they have been working on for sometime now (and was related to my project as well), however their hands are somewhat tied in that area. Relatively speaking, Mazda dealers are more independent, and California has limited power over them. Also, quality of dealer service varies greatly as there are many smaller, lower end places, but there also exists several new dealers with higher sales volumes that receive favorable experience ratings.

RE: Mazda should fire...
By Flunk on 9/4/2014 10:13:11 AM , Rating: 3
I was just at the dealership today, getting my Mazda 3 serviced. I've never really had and issue the service is usually good and it looks fine.

I do live in Canada so its possible that Mazda Canada is just better than Mazda USA or it could have something to do with the sales volume. Mazda 3 and CX5 are pretty common cars around here.

RE: Mazda should fire...
By fic2 on 9/4/2014 11:40:22 AM , Rating: 2
We have a 2013 Mazda 3 that we just got used. In general we like it especially the gas mileage, but it does have some things that just bug the crap out of me. #1 on my list is that the lights don't turn off when you turn off the car. Instead a chime sounds. I figure if you can make it chime you can turn the damn things off. My '99 Subaru turns the lights off when I turn the car off. Why can't a car made 14 years later do the same?
The other stuff mostly surrounds the keyless start thing which I generally don't like in any car.
Mazda also seems behind in using LED lights - I don't think they have any model that uses them.

BTW, my first Mazda was a '88 RX-7 convertible. Really liked that car.

RE: Mazda should fire...
By fic2 on 9/4/2014 12:10:16 PM , Rating: 2
I would also have to add that Mazda 3 and CX-5/7/9 are pretty common around here (Denver).

Also, haven't had to deal with the dealer yet. I should probably look at dealer reviews before we actually have to go to one...

RE: Mazda should fire...
By sprockkets on 9/4/2014 10:58:04 PM , Rating: 2
Referring to headlamps? Unless you have auto headlamps, no.

Your generation of mazda3 has 100% interior led lighting. They were the first to do so. I can't confirm but they had it on all trims too.

RE: Mazda should fire...
By Murloc on 9/5/2014 1:40:37 PM , Rating: 2
that's a common feature in european cars as well. Some people may want to have the lights on with the motor turned off. Like if you've just run over an animal at night and need to stop and take a look.
The cars of nowadays don't waste much fuel by turning on and off (they even have start-and-stop tech), so people usually turn off the motor when they're not moving.

By Scrogneugneu on 9/3/2014 11:58:32 PM , Rating: 2
Is this a 2016 car, presented in 2014 ?

RE: Hum...
By chromal on 9/4/2014 12:08:18 AM , Rating: 2
At least with mazda, it's not unusual for next-model-year cars to begin to be released to dealers around Q3.

RE: Hum...
By inperfectdarkness on 9/4/2014 4:59:26 AM , Rating: 2
Agreed. 2016 model year cars are usually sold starting NLT Q2 of 2015. This announcement isn't ahead of schedule at all.

Losing 220 pounds and 3" in Length?
By eldakka on 9/8/2014 5:06:22 AM , Rating: 2
I'm sure the missus will like losing 220pounds, not so sure she'll be as happy about losing the 3" in length tho...

By Brandon Hill on 9/10/2014 1:38:08 PM , Rating: 2
I'm sure the missus will like losing 220pounds, not so sure she'll be as happy about losing the 3" in length tho...

You had the perfect opportunity to make a Miata joke and you blew it! ;)

All I can say is...
By GotThumbs on 9/4/2014 11:43:53 AM , Rating: 3

I'm blown away with the new styling.

I've owned an NA for over 12 years now (152,000) and it's been a blast to drive and a very low maintenance vehicle. Not looking to get rid of it anytime soon, but this new model may be just the reason.

I never liked the NC styling. The front nose, lights and fenders look ugly to me.

This new styling looks awesome IMO.

I look forward to seeing them on the road.

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