DailyTech - Major Racing Bodies Back Electric Vehicle Series

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Auto Major Racing Bodies Back Electric Vehicle Series
Shane McGlaun (Blog) - January 16, 2012 10:43 AM

37 comment(s) - last by ekv.. on Jan 20 at 8:22 PM

Series will focus on sustainable racing

There is a big push to go green with everyday passenger cars and trucks that cruise the nation's highways. Much of the green focus has been on EVs and hybrid cars that use electricity.

One place that we have seen some hybrid technology come into play where you might not expect it has been at the racetrack. Some of the biggest names in the sports car and racing world, such as Porsche, are toying with battery power. Porsche has used a KERS system on one of its cars for a power boost.

Green racing is set to become much more popular in the future thanks to the American Le Mans Series and IMSA partnering with Quimera of Barcelona, Spain. The three firms are pushing for electric vehicle racing as the next logical step in sustainable motorsports. The goal is to create a global championship based on cars that don’t use fossil fuel of any sort.

"We have often quoted the fact that the most important race in the world is the race among automobile manufacturers to develop new sustainable transportation solutions," ALMS President and CEO Scott Atherton said.

^{Quimera AEGT [Source: The Auto Channel]}

The organizations hope to develop a series around four categories including GT, Touring GT, F3 open wheel, and TTXGP motorcycles. With a lot of the breakthroughs in the automotive world coming because of tech developed in racing, an electric racing series could be just what the EV market needs for a boost. Inside Line reports that Mitsubishi has expressed interest in the racing series.

Quimera has its own all-electric racecar that is set to make debut in demo runs reports Racer.com. The car is the AEGT, which will make the demo runs at select races in 2012, and would be one of the cars in the new racing series if it takes off.

"We have prided ourselves on a self-documented role as leader of green racing, but our focus to date has been on the development of alternative fuels, power sources and hybrids," Atherton explained at the Autosport International motorsports show in England on Thursday. "This deal has been a long time coming, but Quimera's electric GT car is the real deal. This relationship will define what we believe will be the future of green racing. It's a glimpse of tomorrow.

Sources: Racer.com, Insideline

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Excellent....

By Amiga500 on 1/16/2012 11:11:25 AM , Rating: 5

Cry havoc and let loose the dogs* of Formula 1 on it. In the white hot technological race that is F1, progress would be immense.

*erm... by dogs I mean engineers.

RE: Excellent....

By Isidore on 1/16/12, Rating: 0

RE: Excellent....

By Reclaimer77 on 1/16/12, Rating: 0

RE: Excellent....

By Amiga500 on 1/16/2012 12:01:10 PM , Rating: 2

quote:
Also how would refueling even work?

quote:
Can that even be done in a matter of seconds?

We'd find out in short order what the best way of doing it is.

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RE: Excellent....

By topkill on 1/16/2012 1:23:04 PM , Rating: 4

What is really funny is that you can always count on a few luddites on here to freak out about new technology and feel threatened by anything to do with EVs.

Does it threaten you somehow? Does it stop your ability to compensate for your small penis size because the car doesn't make a loud VROOM sound?

Don't worry little boys, you can still pretend. The same way girls would have to pretend with you.

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RE: Excellent....

By Reclaimer77 on 1/16/12, Rating: 0

RE: Excellent....

By Skywalker123 on 1/16/2012 5:56:18 PM , Rating: 2

Look who's calling the kettle black! You routinely call people idiots an morons, yet you cry about someone commenting on your little penis ( A fact verified by your boyfriend). Now go back to playing with your toy race cars and going "Vroom! Vroom!

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RE: Excellent....

By Reclaimer77 on 1/16/2012 6:06:50 PM , Rating: 1

So much hate lol. C'mon Luke, you know that's the path to the Dark Side :P

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RE: Excellent....

By Skywalker123 on 1/16/2012 6:45:57 PM , Rating: 1

Mod me down and I will become more powerful than you can imagine.

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RE: Excellent....

By FITCamaro on 1/16/2012 7:16:46 PM , Rating: 2

Don't you have a sister to go kiss?

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RE: Excellent....

By jwcalla on 1/16/2012 5:50:37 PM , Rating: 2

Yes, because electricity is so modern.

ohh wait...

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RE: Excellent....

By espaghetti on 1/17/2012 1:09:13 AM , Rating: 2

Better yet, the coal used to produce it.
Green.....pthht.
New.....pthht.

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RE: Excellent....

By inperfectdarkness on 1/17/2012 3:55:10 PM , Rating: 2

i'd be 100% happy with owning an electric vehicle. of course my contentment would hinge upon the following:

-500awhp minimum (no more than 2 ton curb weight).
-200 mile range (with me hammering it); 500 mile range with moderate driving.
-battery charges/changes take less than 30 minutes.

p.s.
i don't give a crap about emissions. that electricity comes from somewhere--and right now, a lot of it is from coal. if we can get clean electricity for 100% of our needs, great. i still think the biggest problem is making an electric passenger car that has the versatility of a gasoline one.

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RE: Excellent....

By Keeir on 1/17/2012 2:10:41 PM , Rating: 2

I think that at the dawn of the motor age, there were people against racing motorcars because for some reason or other they weren't as good as horse racing or bicycle racing.

quote:
relevant length

Curious. From drag racings to the le mans race, there seems to be a wide variety of lenths that are considered "relevant" when racing cars. Pretty sure that most electric cars can at least complete a drag race. There have been F1 races shorter than 40 miles, although most races in F1 and Nascar are more than 200 miles.

Clearly an electric car could not compete a 200 mile course without refueling... of course then most F1 and Nascar can't either. As I recall, most early Nascar Stock Series races were significantly less than 200 miles as well.

The real question about "excitement" comes down to rules. If the rules start as loose, there could be alot of visual engineer excitement and unexpected flavor to the races... even if they are only 30 minutes long (from that stand point a 20-40 minute race is pretty TV friendly). I am sick of F1 and Nascar races where everyone essentially races the exact same car with different stickers and "victory" comes down to invisible quality of parts.

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RE: Excellent....

By Reclaimer77 on 1/17/2012 4:48:01 PM , Rating: 2

That's a really stupid analogy. Think about it. We already HAVE auto racing. EV Auto racing isn't some radical departure from the norm like cars vs horse buggies. Hello?

quote:
I am sick of F1 and Nascar races where everyone essentially races the exact same car with different stickers and "victory" comes down to invisible quality of parts.

Sounds like you REALLY don't get auto-racing at all. If the cars are the same, then it all comes down to driver skill, pit crew management, and decision making. It's called TACTICS. That's the whole point! It's got nothing to do with "invisible parts". Yes some cheating can and does happen, but still, get a clue.

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RE: Excellent....

By Spuke on 1/17/2012 5:39:34 PM , Rating: 2

You're not allowed to refuel during the race anymore in F1 so yes they do the entire 200 miles on one tank.

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RE: Excellent....

By Keeir on 1/17/2012 7:08:13 PM , Rating: 2

Errr..

I think your the one is off in left field.

Electric Car racing does not need to mimic F1, Nascar, or any other type of existing series in particular.

I find autoracing very boring because for the most part the actual engineering is in the backstage and so strictly controlled by the rules as to be non-existent. So I don't watch it. Whatever.

An electric car series with flexibility for -visible- engineering differences might be alot of fun to watch. Will it be the -same- as existing series... hopefully not.

Soccer and Basketball both use round balls using human body only and try to put them in a net. One uses its hands and one the feet. Both can be exiting and fun to watch... due to rules and objectives that are Tailored for each sport.

Electric Car racing will be different, but different doesn't mean bad. If they launch series that are -exactly- the same, then of course the electric car racing will be relatively boring and stupid. (Just like Basketball if they played it only using feet)

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RE: Excellent....

By Reclaimer77 on 1/17/2012 8:11:38 PM , Rating: 2

quote:
Electric Car racing does not need to mimic F1, Nascar, or any other type of existing series in particular.

If it want's to be successful it needs to be, yes. Absolutely. Or at least have enough common elements. There's a reason those sports are successful.

Jesus and you say I'm in left field? How much of a market audience potential do you actually believe EV Racing has? Get a clue!

quote:
I find autoracing very boring because for the most part the actual engineering is in the backstage and so strictly controlled by the rules as to be non-existent. So I don't watch it. Whatever.

So? Congratulations. You're in the minority. You're also ignorant. How is the actual engineering in F1 "non-existent"? Do you even know ANYTHING about the sport? It's the absolute FOREFRONT of racing technology and always has been.

quote:
Electric Car racing will be different

Speculation. We have NO IDEA of the particulars at this point. My guess is the only difference will be based on the range limits of the technology. Sorry but the chances that you get your wish of radically different car designs with random performance specs are slim to none. I'm pretty sure EV Racing is going to have rules based around fairness and common performance standards, like nearly all forms of motor sports.

If you're waiting for organized racing to not have rules so you can enjoy it, well then I suggest demolition derby.

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RE: Excellent....

By Amiga500 on 1/16/2012 11:59:52 AM , Rating: 2

quote:
It would be about as exciting as watching a warden writing parking tickets. A faint whine and absolutely no drama.

So noise is your only issue?

Its not exactly a problem to mandate a variation of a jericho horn* be included in the design.

*or minimum noise levels at given tonal ranges.

I don't know how you extrapolate electric motors to equate to no drama. Given the larger torque available lower down the "rev" range - it would be harder for the driver to keep the car from stepping out on corner exit. The deeper KERS recoveries would also make the car more unstable under braking.

quote:
Also how would you define the formula, you can't really define an engine size-maybe by total battery weight?

That is obvious. Minimum chassis weight. Let them work it out after that.

quote:

So the really exciting thing would be who runs out of juice last, or would there be 8 hour refuelling stops?

That is the hurdles they will have to overcome.

Can KERS mean the batteries last long enough?

Better to have a larger battery pack capable of lasting the whole race at a lower Wattage?

Better to have smaller lighter packs that can be quickly swapped out in pitstops?

quote:

Technically interesting yes but as a sport? Not unless you have trouble getting to sleep.

It would be a more interesting sport than the farce the FIA have created with the DRS.

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RE: Excellent....

By RenM on 1/16/2012 1:39:28 PM , Rating: 3

an all electric car will be way easier to drive then one with an ic-engine. the electric motor delivers the torque very smooth while a highly tuned ic-engine can have big torque peaks over the rev range. Just as Kers makes the car more unstable the absence of gear shifts will make it more stable, so the whole thing might rule itself out.

Today F1 cars have a tank volume of about 200l gasoline. That equals about 1800 kWh. Modern accumulators can have up to 200Wh/kg. Even if you calculate with a 3 time higher efficiency for the electric drivetrain you would need 3 tons of accumulators to carry the energy needed for an F1 race....

Electric Racing has to be a lot slower or a lot shorter, both things arent really attractive in my eyes.

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RE: Excellent....

By Etsp on 1/16/2012 6:24:03 PM , Rating: 2

You're comparing theoretical potential energy to electrical energy. These cars weren't designed to sip fuel, they were designed to go as fast as possible. There is a tradeoff for any ICE of fuel efficiency to power/torque. Normal Car manufacturers find the best possible balance, while racecars crank the power/torque dial to 11.

I'm willing to be that most formula 1 cars actually get only 1000kWh of kinetic energy out of a tank of fuel. The rest of it goes to waste heat or is simply not combusted and is sent out the exhaust.

I'm not saying that electric races will last as long/go as fast, but I am saying that you're overstating the issue.

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RE: Excellent....

By FITCamaro on 1/17/2012 10:39:47 AM , Rating: 2

Yes but that maximum torque is at 0 rpm. Racing is not done at 0 rpm. It is done at high rpms. At those higher rpms, you have substantially less power.

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RE: Excellent....

By JediJeb on 1/16/2012 1:33:54 PM , Rating: 2

Can always group cars by Watts since it would be equivalent to Horsepower. 746watts = 1 HP 300hp = 223.8kw

There has been electric drag racing for several years now, and some of those electric cars out perform many gasoline powered cars. Battery pack changes are used just as refueling is used for that.

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RE: Excellent....

By FITCamaro on 1/17/2012 10:40:36 AM , Rating: 2

Electric drag racing is far easier to accomplish. You only have to power the car for a matter of seconds. Not hours.

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RE: Excellent....

By JediJeb on 1/17/2012 1:50:25 PM , Rating: 2

True, but the concept is the same. Design a battery pack that will last 20-50 laps( whatever a tank of fuel normally last or there abouts) and a quick change mechanism to make a pit stop about the same duration as a gasoline one is. Put the 480V quick charge charging stations in the pits so you can charge a battery pack between pit stops, or even between every other one. Didn't one manufacturer have one that recharges in 30 minutes with the 480V charger?

It will take some engineering, but it is possible to make electric racing mimic petro racing.

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RE: Excellent....

By Spuke on 1/17/2012 5:43:22 PM , Rating: 2

I doubt you'll be able to change a battery pack in 4 seconds in F1 (F1 tire change time). Refueling isn't allowed currently (200 miles in a race) but only took another 3 seconds when it was.

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RE: Excellent....

By Keeir on 1/17/2012 7:20:02 PM , Rating: 2

I assume they won't run the electric cars in the same race as the petrol powered cars. Not sure how long a F1 tire change takes has any bearing on a battery swap.

Though, hypothetically, it shouldn't take much longer than the F1 tire change. Some form of slide on electrical connection secured by 4-6 bolts... hmmm sounds pretty much like a tire. I bet it could be done in ~6 seconds or less.

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RE: Excellent....

By ekv on 1/18/2012 2:31:13 AM , Rating: 2

quote:
I assume they won't run the electric cars in the same race as the petrol powered cars

I don't think it'd be fair to do that. Electric would wind up winning. E.g.

http://youtu.be/Rh1xMwOO54s

Write X1, or something like that. Looks like an electric version of Ariel Atom (which is blazing fast in it's own right).

quote:
battery swap ... I bet it could be done in ~6 seconds or less.

College students on a college budget take considerably longer
http://youtu.be/MRiGcU45HE0

Given an F1 budget though I'd have to agree with you.

Somebody else mentioned something about excitement and noise. This isn't too bad ...
http://youtu.be/p6dA1zAfxdE
and
http://youtu.be/2jIcWBe2_4w

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RE: Excellent....

By ekv on 1/18/2012 2:32:23 AM , Rating: 2

quote:
I assume they won't run the electric cars in the same race as the petrol powered cars

quote:
battery swap ... I bet it could be done in ~6 seconds or less.

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RE: Excellent....

By ekv on 1/18/2012 2:34:35 AM , Rating: 2

quote:
I assume they won't run the electric cars in the same race as the petrol powered cars

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RE: Excellent....

By ekv on 1/20/2012 8:22:56 PM , Rating: 2

D'oh! Triple-post.

Sorry. "502 Bad Gateway" nonsense. Kept trying to post ... and didn't see it till now.

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What does sustainable have to do with this?

By uop on 1/16/2012 11:40:43 AM , Rating: 2

By definition racing != sustainable, much like any other form of entertainment. We don't entertain ourselves for our sustenance.

These days people abuse the term to mean "doesn't use gas directly". Taking the same term to racing just makes it look ridiculous.

RE: What does sustainable have to do with this?

By Etsp on 1/16/2012 6:27:26 PM , Rating: 2

This sport is a major source of technological innovation when it comes to automobiles. 90% of the technology introduced into cars in the last 20 years was put into a race-car before it was put into a production model car.

I think these races are a good idea to push technology forward for EVs, and thus make production EVs cheaper/better/more sustainable.

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Tour de Fossil Fuels?

By The Raven on 1/16/2012 11:41:38 AM , Rating: 2

quote:
The goal is to create a global championship based on cars that don’t use fossil fuel of any sort.

Hmm... I thought coal was a fossil fuel.

Yes, yes, I know this is just the beginning... eventually they will get rid of the coal and the nuclear and natgas...
...and we will end up with people racing in France on bikes. I wonder what the people of the future will call such a race...

RE: Tour de Fossil Fuels?

By espaghetti on 1/17/2012 1:14:18 AM , Rating: 2

So, solar, hydro, or nuclear?
I say...GO NUCLEAR and GO FASTER!!!
lol

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aka

By crimsonson on 1/16/2012 2:29:15 PM , Rating: 2

"We don't want to screw our biggest sponsors- gas and petroleum company. Instead of migrating to electric, which may not have the same level of financial support, we would rather use petroleum companies "alternative fuel" - which may or may not exist at the level we need".