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Print 116 comment(s) - last by dustbag.. on Feb 20 at 1:31 PM

A new study has some humorous comments at Mac owners' expense, but reveals some serious market trends

Mac users and Mac-loving analysts often use phrases like “the halo-effect” to explain increased sales of Mac computers and OS X due to iPods and iPhones.  Now, the stock market site The Street has created a humorous video analysis that offers up a new explanation for this and more commercial phenomena -- the "snob"-effect.

In the video, The Street says that on average Mac users surveyed were discovered to be “self centered, arrogant, conceited” and truly "snobs".  The site says this has many real commercial ramifications, so all jokes aside, the "snob"-factor warrants serious attention.

Mac users, apparently concerned with self-image, were found to buy tooth-whitening products at a far greater rate than PC users.  Mac users are also more likely to visit Starbucks, buy organic food, and own hybrid cars.  Furthermore, Mac users buy on average 5 new pairs of sneakers a year, well above the average for non-users. 

Mac users prefer notebooks to desktops, station wagons to SUVs.  Perhaps unsurprisingly, Mac users prefer "green" products, even at a higher cost.  Perhaps more surprisingly, Mac users are quite law abiding and are more likely than not to pay for music -- perhaps more due to the popularity of iTunes than their moral inclinations.  Mac users are more satisfied with their purchase than PC users.

Interestingly, people surveyed with an "open personality" were found to be 60% more likely to buy a Mac.  Some of the more esoteric observations on Mac users character are flattering, others aren't.  Mac users were found to be more liberal, socially and politically.  Mac users are also less modest and more assured of their own superiority.

The interesting part about The Street's video, is that while obvious poking a bit of fun at the Mac crowd, it does illustrate some practical market trends that can be exploited for the benefit of more effective advertising and marketing to the growing crowd of Mac, iPod, and iPhone "snobs"

Hopefully there won't be too many hurt feelings, and await a possible comment from Apple Inc. CEO Steve Jobs.



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Really?
By Xodus Maximus on 2/18/2008 11:45:01 AM , Rating: 5
quote:
Mac users buy on average 5 new pairs of sneakers a year


Is that so they can kick themselves in the arse for paying way too much for the Apple stuff?




RE: Really?
By darkpaw on 2/18/2008 11:49:35 AM , Rating: 5
Just further proof that people that buy Apple products have more money then sense!


RE: Really?
By retrospooty on 2/18/2008 11:57:21 AM , Rating: 3
It must be true. I have bought 8 or 9 computers in the past 3 and 1/2 years, 2 for myself, the rest for friend and family/upgrades etc... All PC's, mostly cheap low end, except the 2 for me =)

In that same time I have bought 1 pair of shoes, and that was just 2 weeks ago. LOL


RE: Really?
By spluurfg on 2/18/2008 3:30:49 PM , Rating: 3
I think it's fairly easy to accept, given the demographics -- Apple products are often marketed to a younger audience, due to their emphasis on design, and are also sold at a premium compared to many competitors.

So what do younger people who can afford to pay that premium do? Buy sneakers (I am guessing young, affluent people might also play a lot of sports?), go to starbucks, be concerned about their image, etc. I find it completely unsurprising that someone who can pay a premium for design is also willing to pay a premium for a 'green' product.

I'm not trying to pass judgement on this -- Honestly I think 'snobbish' is probably a little unfair, since a lot of people out there go to starbucks and buy stuff they don't need, myself included. Though the teeth-whitening statistic is definitely a laugh.


RE: Really?
By Kougar on 2/18/2008 4:05:31 PM , Rating: 4
I still don't quite believe the shoe comments, demographics or not since I fall within that age range. I used to buy a single pair of sneakers a year, because that was as long as they lasted... now for the same price I buy a set of hiking shoes that are more comfortable, great for outdoors use, and have so far lasted me two years without any signs of impending failure and still have half the tread left.

I might expect a woman to buy that many pairs of shoes, but unless it is a guy that heavily plays two or three sports that statistic was just very amusing. Of those Mac users an average of 5 pairs a year makes me wonder just how many was typical for those above the median average. ;)


RE: Really?
By onwisconsin on 2/18/2008 4:16:23 PM , Rating: 2
I know mac users in my family and through my family...Mac users tend to be more "trendy" and seem to have pride about using a mac (read: being arrogant)


RE: Really?
By DM0407 on 2/18/2008 12:01:33 PM , Rating: 5
How did they miss this statistics?

quote:
...85% of Mac owners are so smug they enjoy smelling their own farts.


quote:
92% are happy they purchased their Apple product days before an unannounced price cut.




RE: Really?
By walk2k on 2/18/2008 12:42:22 PM , Rating: 3
96% of Mac users are fully satisfied with the new Macintosh computer they have pre-ordered even though it hasn't even been announced yet.


RE: Really?
By ShadowZERO on 2/18/08, Rating: -1
RE: Really?
By inighthawki on 2/18/2008 2:23:54 PM , Rating: 2
seriously-no need to get offensive. It's called a joke man. Maybe if you try laughing instead of getting mad, you can appreciate it.


RE: Really?
By spluurfg on 2/18/2008 6:16:24 PM , Rating: 4
Was that meant to be ironic? Because it was.


RE: Really?
By DeepBlue1975 on 2/18/2008 12:03:51 PM , Rating: 5
Don't know if Mac people have more money than others, but they surely do spend more than tech savvy users, and specifically, they spend more to get things with the right looks than to get things with the right functionality.

It's like comparing girls to boys: girls usually spend lots of money on stuff with little to no practical functionality (very high heel shoes, cosmetics, hair styling) but that imply a self image enhancing, while us amongst the male crowd prefer to spend little fortunes on some rugged printed circuit board which is said to pump out don't-know-how-many zillions of texturized polygons per nanosecond and has gullions of transistors built in.

Hence, Mac people must be comprised mainly by girls and gay men than straight men.

(It's just a joke! I have mac fan friends that are not gay... well, at least they don't seem to be :D )


RE: Really?
By Misty Dingos on 2/18/2008 12:15:19 PM , Rating: 5
This is not news to the people that have ever walked into an Apple store. Never been in one? Well let me help you out because I am a nice person and I like to help people. My trips to the Apple Stores were because a child required an IPod. Nothing else would do. Not Zune. Not Sansa. Not anything but Holy Apple.

Let us tour the standard Apple Store. First things first, it looks like something out of a bad 70’s sci-fi movie. Every surface is frighteningly white, the attendants are all dressed identically, and the air is perfumed with Snobbery No. 5 by Steve Jobs. You are attended to according to the perceived cost of your hair cut. Do not dare mention that you use Windows at home or the attendants will pull on gloves to deal with your unsavory presence. If you make it this far, and congratulations for being so clever, after being allowed in Apple’s Staff profound presence for at least thirty minutes touring ever bit of white and chrome coated tech and agreeing with or laughing at the staff’s witticisms. You may be allowed to bask in the glory of purchasing an item from the Apple Store! This item, whether it be IPod, Mac, or even lowly ITouch will be the gateway unto a new and better existence for you. Unless it breaks, then you will have to navigate the Apple Store again but this time to deal with Apple Customer Service. They give the sales people lessons in snobbery. I will tell you about them later.


RE: Really?
By Omega215D on 2/18/2008 3:18:06 PM , Rating: 3
Despite having the biker look (probably because I rode in a Kawasaki cruiser) the people at the Apple store have been nice to me regardless of my appearance and me carrying my Cowon D2 in sight didn't change a thing. Now the snobby residents of the area ( 5th Ave. near Central Park NYC) are another story.


RE: Really?
By kelmon on 2/19/2008 3:11:50 AM , Rating: 2
Maybe this is just the US stores - the UK ones are wonderful. I honestly can't think of other stores where the staff take so much time to find out what you like and want to do with a computer, or where they'll even talk you out of making a purchase if the item isn't right for you. Basically, your experience is definitely not universal, particularly since all the surfaces appear to be beechwood in the ones that I've been to rather than white.

Funny stuff, mind.


RE: Really?
By spluurfg on 2/18/2008 6:19:42 PM , Rating: 4
quote:
Don't know if Mac people have more money than others, but they surely do spend more than tech savvy users, and specifically, they spend more to get things with the right looks than to get things with the right functionality.


Gee, I dunno. I'd say we non-mac users spend just as much -- we just spend it on RAM and graphics cards.


RE: Really?
By jtemplin on 2/18/2008 8:22:50 PM , Rating: 2
In support of spluurfg...I've spent plenty of money on minute aspects of my PC's performance that don't necessarily increase the subjective quality of my computing experience (it went to really fast to really freakin fast?).

Some apple users would argue the increased cost is justified by the superior interface. From my limited dealings with Human Computer Interaction (HCI) Psychologists there is a feeling that the apple OS is superior in many ways to the Windows environment.

To each his own? Nah lets make fun of them because they spent more. Thats the american way (TM).


RE: Really?
By DeepBlue1975 on 2/19/2008 9:10:14 AM , Rating: 2
Yes, but do we get a pricey video card or a pricey couple of RAM sticks just because they look cool?
Or because we want everyone to notice when we take them out of our pockets? :D

Hardcore hardware fans can spend quite a bit of money, but not even most of the PC enthusiast crowd are that hardcore or willing to spend so much on hardware(I consider myself to be an enthusiast, but I would never go for an SLI setup or for the fastest version of a kentsfield CPU or even the fastest video card available. And talking about RAM, performance improvements are so small to me that I buy the cheapest ones with a good brand name that can run good at standard fsb speeds, don't even care about the timings any longer)

Most iPod fans, for example, would swap their 6 months old iPods out for the newest one even if it doesn't promise any new functionality whatsoever. Many openly admit they just want it for the looks :D

A PC user that swaps his video card usually does so because the newest and better games don't run well on anything but the best available hardware out there.
At least that's what I think because my experience tells me so... But I might as well be wrong, you never know :D


RE: Really?
By robinthakur on 2/19/2008 5:00:27 AM , Rating: 1
I find it hard to believe that mac users would be caught dead wearing 'sneakers' or is this just a term Americans use for any type of shoe? In the UK its sort of chavvy to wear trainers and only little kids and slummy-mummies wear them (outside of sports uses). Surely they'd be more likely to buy hand-made Itlaian shoes or the like?

In all seriousness, I'm not surprised at this. The prohibitively high barrier cost of entry and the emphasis on styling and design over conventional computing priorities and the fact that Apple really know how to market to make their products true objects of desire, means that Apple is more like a fashion label than any other pc maker. As anyone knows, fashion labels are the very definition of snobbery. This trait is more universal in the UK where the class system is still alive and well, whereas in America you all seem to labour under the misconception that you're all equally important ;)


RE: Really?
By Ringold on 2/18/2008 12:20:36 PM , Rating: 3
5 pair of shoes.. You know they weren't made in the US.

Really Nasty Trade Deficit Estimation:

~ 35 million Apple customers x 5 pairs of shoes x $10 each = 1,750,000,000 annual trade deficit

Assuming they're all cheap-ass sandals, 875 million-ish, assuming they're all nicer shoes, perhaps up to 3.5 - 5 billion extra on the trade deficit.

Also assuming all iTunes users buy 5 each. Big assumptions, big numbers.


RE: Really?
By Penti on 2/18/2008 3:29:09 PM , Rating: 2
And the computers, ipods and other consumer electronics aren't either but hey, Taiwan is getting rich at least.


RE: Really?
By Scott66 on 2/18/2008 4:13:51 PM , Rating: 3
They may not have been made in the US but good chance those sneakers were designed in the states. US companies make the decisions to go outside for production because consumers want to live like they bought the best, but are not willing to pay the full price.


RE: Really?
By HOOfan 1 on 2/18/2008 3:11:58 PM , Rating: 5
I buy 1 new pair of sneakers every 5 years...

They only really get broken in and form fit to my feet after several months of use, then I wear them until they are falling apart.


RE: Really?
By Omega215D on 2/18/2008 3:23:08 PM , Rating: 2
I'm odd because I buy clothes annually since I like utilitarian stuff and it tends to last me a while.


RE: Really?
By dflynchimp on 2/18/2008 5:39:08 PM , Rating: 2
that and to keep their starched white khakis clean when they do


RE: Really?
By kelmon on 2/19/2008 2:59:27 AM , Rating: 2
If the rest of the article had not already done so, that quote definitely shows that either the author was either taking the piss, making it up, or just plain dumb. I don't know anyone who buys 5-pairs of trainers, let alone an average across people, so this article is just garbage.

Personally, I just find the whole subject funny.


RE: Really?
By Samus on 2/19/2008 4:34:15 AM , Rating: 2
Hey, I buy at least 5 pairs of sneakers a year and don't own ANY crapple crap.


Writing
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 2/18/2008 11:21:34 AM , Rating: 5
This hardly seems like anything new. Mac users have been notorious for being snobs like Steve Jobs himself. This was true during Steve's first tenture at Apple and continues to this day. Some of the other statistics are simply confirmation that it goes further than just buying a Mac, they go the whole nine yards.




RE: Writing
By geeg on 2/18/2008 11:25:59 AM , Rating: 2
Steve Jobbs is actually mentioned in the book "The No A..hole Rule: Building a Civilized Workplace and Surviving One That Isn't" where his "a..hole" attitude is indeed a winning strategy for his business.


RE: Writing
By ThePooBurner on 2/18/2008 12:17:24 PM , Rating: 5
I am reminded of this accurate assessment made some 5 years ago. Observe!

http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2002/07/12


RE: Writing
By Cobra Commander on 2/18/2008 11:28:39 AM , Rating: 2
Agreed. Now we have The Street telling us what we already-know. I don't see this is so important that Apple would spend more than 5 minutes talking about it, let alone comment publicly about it. I know I wouldn't care if I were Apple. Half of the bullet points listed in this blurb is only going to make them more proud of themselves so what's the point? That snobbery is going to hurt the bottom line? If so, unless there's a known business case elsewhere that demonstrates as much I'm not going to give this another second of thought.


RE: Writing
By JAB on 2/18/08, Rating: -1
RE: Writing
By UNCjigga on 2/18/08, Rating: -1
RE: Writing
By joemoedee on 2/18/2008 12:48:27 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
Well there *are* those of us, like myself, who don't use a Mac but really believe Apple is a trend-setting firm that's helped other consumer electronics firms with UI, focus on the consumer, ease of use, etc.


I agree. I've used PC's 98% of my computing life, and I know a lot of the features I've grown to love came out of Apple to begin with. Their innovation and refinement of features has been a driving force in a lot of what we see today.

quote:
I really think there would be less Apple-bashing if Jobs and his crew would simply make OS X independent of their hardware and available to the broad base of x86 users across the globe.


True, but the implications of going that route would be a tremendous undertaking. Additionally, you have to spread the driver support at least 10 fold, to encompass all of the hardware on the market. In the controlled environment, Apple is better equipped to make sure their product works on a select bunch of hardware.

I think it would be going too far off of the normal Apple course to do so. One feature highly touted by Apple users has been "It just works", which would be hard to say if you expanded its hardware selections by that much. What they're doing currently is working, they need not stray.


RE: Writing
By UNCjigga on 2/18/2008 1:03:50 PM , Rating: 2
Just because they open up to other vendors doesn't mean Apple has to be as open as Microsoft. The goal for Apple isn't 92% market share, but rather expanding their current global share to 10% or maybe up to 20% max. They could work only with Dell, HP, Sony, Lenovo and Acer to start, and limit their support to a few Intel chipsets. They can mandate use of their own BIOS, and ignore the build-it-yourself market altogether. Hell, they can even mandate WHERE you can sell an "Apple compatible" computer, keeping the retail market to themselves and making OS X a build-to-order option for web orders from the manufacturer only. As long as they have the right OS X licensing program in place, there's no reason for them not to do this.


RE: Writing
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 2/18/2008 1:18:08 PM , Rating: 3
Apple hardware has nice margins, why would they allow Dell or HP to cut in on those margins?


RE: Writing
By UNCjigga on 2/18/2008 2:43:24 PM , Rating: 1
Because they would charge Dell/HP/etc. a fee for that license? Don't get me wrong--3 years ago if Apple would have proposed something like this, Dell/HP etc. would have laughed in their faces and shared the joke with Microsoft. Nowadays, with Windows Vista failing to win over consumers and Microsoft putting XP on extended life support, I'm not so sure the OEMs would be laughing.

I guess the business case would be based on "Designed for X" licensing revenue + additional sales of OS X vs. cannibalized sales of Mac hardware and additional support costs for OS X. I still think it could work out in Apple's favor.


RE: Writing
By Penti on 2/18/2008 3:45:51 PM , Rating: 2
Not to mention the fact that both Dell and HP orders computers from the same ODMs as Apple. So it's like saying nVidia would manufacture ATi GPUs when they are already manufactured at the same plant. No they couldn't right now since they are later then ATi to move to 55nm but it's kinda pointless for them to use there lines to produce the competitions products. In the short therm it also means they would have to produce less of there other products.


RE: Writing
By Steve Guilliot on 2/18/2008 3:57:22 PM , Rating: 4
quote:
I really think there would be less Apple-bashing if Jobs and his crew would simply make OS X independent of their hardware and available to the broad base of x86 users across the globe.


Never gonna happen. Who is going to write tens-of-thousands of drivers to enable that? You'll be in trouble if you solely rely on third party manufacturers to write drivers for their own hardware, as we've seen with Vista which took a year.

What happens when things like release schedules, planned features, performance, and system stability become dependent on the actions of external companies?

MS has been criticize since the beginning for stuff like this. Apple's closed architecture has shielded them thus far. Jobs knows this.


RE: Writing
By rockyct on 2/19/2008 1:15:04 AM , Rating: 3
Exactly. Apple stuff "just works" because of how closed the environment is. Look how long it took Apple to release a Vista compatible version of itunes.


Apple users are funny
By SavagePotato on 2/18/2008 12:47:44 PM , Rating: 5
The advertisements are definitely working. Working for an isp in a pretty small town / rural area even we get a ton more calls from mac people than before.

Some are just old people that don't know what end of the mouse is up, but without question all are a laugh riot.

The absolute best part is that we don't provide any official tech support for mac. So the user is 100% on their own. It gives me no end of joy to relay that information.

I missed it but one of the other technicians got a call from the smuggest woman EVER the other day who went absolutely apeshit when she was told we can't help with any setup issues on a mac. I would have payed to hear it honestly. Apparently she would be "calling mac and having them call us to straighten us out." We're still waiting for them to call.




RE: Apple users are funny
By dustbag on 2/18/08, Rating: -1
RE: Apple users are funny
By Rebel44 on 2/18/2008 3:34:21 PM , Rating: 2
HAHAHA Good joke ......

I am also working for ISP and we also dont support Mac.


RE: Apple users are funny
By jimbojimbo on 2/19/2008 12:14:03 PM , Rating: 4
Aren't they supposed to "just work"? Why do they need tech support at all?


RE: Apple users are funny
By SavagePotato on 2/18/2008 4:54:24 PM , Rating: 1
For the 2 users a week that call with a mac, it's a who the f$%# cares situation.

And for a micro sized isp you won't ever be doing business with us trust me.

As a side note, when you pay peanuts you get technicians that don't give a rats ass. Thats just about the windows computers. When it comes to mac... well the rats ass would be a step up.


RE: Apple users are funny
By SavagePotato on 2/18/2008 5:00:29 PM , Rating: 1
Oh by the way, Cheaper cost of ownership?

Hahaha! in what universe? more like 4x cost of ownership, no more reliability, and not really anywhere near as easy to use as is made out.


RE: Apple users are funny
By dustbag on 2/19/2008 11:38:25 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
more like 4x cost of ownership, no more reliability


RE: Apple users are funny
By dustbag on 2/19/2008 11:50:22 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
more like 4x cost of ownership, no more reliability


Tear yourself away from WoW and do your homework Savage. Any fairly done cost of ownership analysis shows that Mac's blow Windows based computers networks away. Mac hardward lasts easily 50% longer for the same price, has a shorter learning curve so their is less training cost, has much less IT infrastructure and support required since they use global standards for much of their network interaction.


RE: Apple users are funny
By SavagePotato on 2/20/2008 9:37:23 AM , Rating: 2
Whatever crack you are smoking pass it around, clearly primo stuff.


RE: Apple users are funny
By dustbag on 2/20/2008 12:51:15 PM , Rating: 2
Well, apparently you are still smoking the same crack given you by the Microsoft marketing department in 1994.

The myth of Mac's being more expensive to own and operate in both the personal and corporate environments has been disproven time and time again when actual financial analysis that considers all the costs - hardware, software, and support - is applied accurately.

Anyway, you are obviously in the Bill Gates Reality Distortion Field, and so can't see facts through the cloud of smoke. Enjoy.


RE: Apple users are funny
By SeeManRun on 2/18/2008 6:27:14 PM , Rating: 2
There is probably a reason Macs aren't used that much in a corporate environment. Maybe OSX changes the rules, but OSX is still pretty new compared to Windows, but maybe that Macs were not that easy to maintain in a corporate environment in the past, or did not provide the support that Microsoft does to large organizations.

You should think about things from another angle before you spout off about buying habits. If Apple is selling so many computers, then they better start creating the tools for ISP's and corporate environments to support their systems like Microsoft does. (I am not a system administrator, so I may be wrong about Apple not supplying the support/tools that MS does)


RE: Apple users are funny
By dustbag on 2/20/2008 1:31:41 PM , Rating: 2
Just as WinXP was a derivitive of WinNT but at the same time an evolution of Win98, so OS X was a derivitive of NeXT, and an evolution of OS 9.

Apple provides excellent support for OS X based computers in networks that use standard protocols. They make excellent web and network server hardware, and have well trained techs that can support the few issues that do come up (studies show that for a similar sized user base, an Apple based network and Mac user base requires approximately 1/10 the suppor levels of a similarly configured Microsoft based network). Most of the major business application software vendors (SAP, Oracle Peoplesoft, Intuit) have Mac versions Add in almost no need for anti-virus software and a platform that is highly resistant to malware. In the corporate world, all of this should be a huge consideration in deciding what platform to use.

Bottom line - the majority of the corporate networks today are maintained by large IT organizations trained and familiar with MS products, and they are the ones tasked with developing hardware and software support strategies in the future. For most of them, Apple OS X and its related technologies are like black magic - not because they are too stupid to figure it out, but because there is a training curve with any different technology. So when they hear claims that its easier to support, they don't have the background or information to understand whether those claims are true. And so, they stick with what they know. Just like the cliche from a decade ago that no one ever got fired for buying IBM computers, no one today would get fired for buying Microsoft.

But my point was, that as those students familiar with Apple and OS X move into the corporate world, they wll start to question those paradigms. Some of those people will have used one of the many Apple networks in univeristies today, and start to compare network performance and support costs, and call their IT buddy from college and start to compare notes. Its already happening, and that is one reason Apple server, desktop, and laptop market share is growing.


RE: Apple users are funny
By kelmon on 2/19/2008 3:25:53 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
The absolute best part is that we don't provide any official tech support for mac. So the user is 100% on their own. It gives me no end of joy to relay that information.


Well, aren't you just a credit to your profession? Now I have to go and find some thread and a needle to sew up my sides that appear to have split during all this hilarity...

And they say the art of customer service is dead.


RE: Apple users are funny
By SavagePotato on 2/19/2008 9:19:16 AM , Rating: 2
Whatever makes you stay sane, but let me tell you this.

If you actually went through life believing that being an obsequious abuse absorbing sponge like dell representatives somehow made you better off, chances are you would wake up and realize you had gone completely nuts one day.

Anyone that thinks helping these kinds of people is some magical experience, should spend a year or three doing it and see if you feel the same after the ten thousandth time phonetically spelling simple words to someone that is so stupid you could only imagine they must be wearing their pants backwards... and on their head...


Does this work for Volkswagens too?
By SeeManRun on 2/18/2008 11:59:51 AM , Rating: 3
I find people that drive VW's are the same. Even if their car is a total lemon, they love it, and love VW for giving them the honor of driving said lemon. I really see a parallel here.




RE: Does this work for Volkswagens too?
By Transatlantic Foe on 2/18/2008 12:22:10 PM , Rating: 2
I don't know, does this apply to all VWs? I have a 2004 R32 that I bought new, and I've never had a single problem. But I do have friends with Beetles and Jettas and they have problem after problem. Maybe it's just model specific...


By Pneumothorax on 2/18/2008 12:33:49 PM , Rating: 3
Maybe because you bought a REAL VW. Your car is one of the few left still made in Germany. The rest of the jettas/beetles/golfs are german engineered, mexican built cars.


By UNCjigga on 2/18/2008 12:37:12 PM , Rating: 2
Hey now, I bought a 2006 Passat, and while I love the drivetrain I'm *not* happy with the problems I've had and make it a point to tell all my friends about my bad experience! I didn't buy my car for the VW logo, I bought it because there was a good incentive package at the time, the car is beautiful, and I really liked the 2.0T FSI motor. My Toyota dealer was being a prick and wouldn't even let me test drive the Camry (WTF?) and while I loved my previous Accord, the '06 was just *ugly*. If I were to go through the process again now, I'd probably end up with the new Malibu.


By SavagePotato on 2/18/2008 5:04:09 PM , Rating: 2
Brand loyalty in my opinion is something everyone in the world would be better off getting over.

At least blind brand loyalty. It really isn't just Volkswagen you see that with any auto maker. Ford or Chevy enthusiasts, import enthusiasts, you name it there is nothing that touches their favorite brand.

Human nature I guess. In the end it's good to remember all companies are out to rape and pillage your bank account at all costs.


I wonder what Mac users said about...
By Legolias24 on 2/18/2008 1:08:13 PM , Rating: 2
I was just wondering what Mac users said after learning their beloved Macs were switching from the G5 architecture to something undeniably PC based. I mean, for years they (Mac users) would go on and on about their Macs with the PowerPC chips being so much more powerful then an AMD/Intel based PC. ;)

Thoughts anyone? :P

-Legolias




RE: I wonder what Mac users said about...
By nowayout99 on 2/18/2008 1:39:04 PM , Rating: 3
The elitist users said everything from "never buying a Mac again" (as if there were some other non-PC alternative), to "No, wait, the Intel chips actually ARE faster now. Finally!"

Basically they bought whatever Jobs sold them after their initial drama fit. The elitist opinions are flexible and will change to justify their positions... Not unlike most fanboys of anything else that's out there with a following.


By Donkeyshins on 2/18/2008 1:50:41 PM , Rating: 2
And a small percentage couldn't handle the cognitive dissonance emanating from Stevie J's reality-distortion field and their heads exploded a la 'Scanners'.


By kelmon on 2/19/2008 3:46:35 AM , Rating: 2
Definitely a worrying move at the time. I didn't have any issue with using a "PC" processor since, as a laptop user, it was clear that IBM wasn't going to be delivering a G5 laptop processor anytime soon (it was a running "joke" that Apple was going to release a G5 PowerBook next Tuesday). However, we were all worried about how the transition of software would take place, how performance would be impacted, etc. To a degree we were right to worry since it took Adobe and Microsoft bloody ages to migrate their applications to native Intel binaries. On retrospect it was a good decision to go with Intel rather than IBM or AMD but at the time it was a worry.


By dustbag on 2/19/2008 12:00:31 PM , Rating: 2
I think at the time I said "excellent" since IBM didn't have a roadmap that was going to keep pace with Intel/AMD.

Of course I haven't had a need to upgrade to the Intel Mac just yet, since I'm still running the 1.8G G5 I bought in April '05.

It was pretty close to the fastest PC on the planet at the time, and it still blows away my new (company supplied) Thinkpad 2G Core2Duo running XP.


News?
By ajfink on 2/18/2008 11:19:02 AM , Rating: 2
Just putting a few (lazy) figures on trends and concepts that anyone with any amount of social awareness has known for years.

I'm not talking smack on Macs, they work just fine, but one really must admit they carry certain social connotations with them.




RE: News?
By pomaikai on 2/18/2008 11:43:19 AM , Rating: 2
Agreed. I dont expect anyone who uses a mac to have a good understanding about PC hardware. There PC is a tool. They dont really understand how the tool works, they just know how to use it.


RE: News?
By pomaikai on 2/18/2008 11:45:03 AM , Rating: 2
Before I get slammed, I am referring to memory timings, overclock voltages, multipliers, etc. and how they all relate and work together.


RE: News?
By Omega215D on 2/18/2008 3:12:48 PM , Rating: 2
I beg to differ. I built several gaming Windows based PCs using parts that have a good cost:performance ratio since 2000. My current rig is still an AMD Opteron using DDR1 so overclocking it is no picnic. (I got rid of the Core 2 Duo rig to make way for the new Bearlake chipset).

That being said I bought a new MacBook using a Core 2 Duo for $850 thanks to my mom's retail employee discount. The reason I went with a Mac because I should stuff happen I can hop on the subway to the Apple store and let them deal with it as well as the slim non tapered form of the laptop. I originally wanted a ThinkPad but the one I wanted ended up being $1050 and was noticeably thicker despite being a T61.

The funny thing is I hate the Apple iPod (Cowon D2 and Creative Zen) due to its poor sound, I dislike Starbucks cause I don't like being gouged, I seldom wear sneakers because I'm a construction boot kind of guy. I find those Mac ads annoying as well so not all Mac users are like what many in this forum describe. Of course many of these people are the same who bash Windows Vista for being a hog while I feel Leopard is no different.


RE: News?
By kelmon on 2/19/2008 3:31:26 AM , Rating: 2
Been there, done that, and now simply can't be arsed. I used to build my own gaming systems in years gone by but after a falling out with Windows XP, and generally getting incredibly bored with PC games, I switched to a PowerBook and a MacBook Pro. It is almost certain that your statement applies to most PC owners as well so it is pretty meaningless.

Switching to the Mac now means that I end up in discussions like this instead of the old Intel vs. AMD debates.


Theory of mine
By uhgotnegum on 2/18/2008 12:06:08 PM , Rating: 2
Purely untested theory of mine.

I think that a Mac user would tend to be someone who is generally somewhat antiestablishment or rebellious in nature.

Not meaning that in a bad way, I swear.

That's not to say all Mac purchasers are that way, but it would make sense that someone who has *probably* used PCs in school or at a friend's house would tend to be more used to the Windows interface and would follow that in his/her own purchase. To "rebel" from that "easier" road makes me think the person tends to be more of a "free spirit," generally.

Trying not to use colloquialisms to describe a Mac user, and I'm sorry for generalizing, but I would expect that a Mac user would tend to be more left-thinking, be more conscious of environmental issues(read: higher priority), and (insert additional generalization here).

I'm not judging a Mac user, and it's not like I'd expect every one of them to act this way, but I would imagine that the type of person I've described would be interpreted as more "snobbish" (or whatever) because he/she is less interested in another's perception of him/her. Personally, I think that's the wrong conclusion to draw, but that's probably how these "results" were interpreted.

--It's not the most refined theory ever...I invite anonymous (...no, not you "legion"...ha) to help clarify/support or just shoot me down.




RE: Theory of mine
By Donkeyshins on 2/18/2008 1:53:09 PM , Rating: 2
Actually, I'll bite - I think that Mac users are more 'NPR liberal' types while the truly anti-establishment folks are Unix users.


RE: Theory of mine
By Donkeyshins on 2/18/2008 1:56:43 PM , Rating: 2
And to clarify, I mean Unix users who like to use the console. I don't think Mac users care what's under the hood of OS-X - e.g. Solaris, BSD, various and sundry flavors of Linux.


RE: Theory of mine
By gandralf on 2/18/2008 10:00:34 PM , Rating: 2
Well... not really. I am, and I know a lot of a mac user who uses the unix behind it. I know one designer and one manager that don't care about it, but one manager (me!), 4 developers and two network administrators who uses it (Unix stuff) on a daily basis.
One of the reasons that I bough my mac was exactly that: the power of Unix without Linux headaches. Yes, I am (used to be) a hardcore Linux user.


RE: Theory of mine
By kelmon on 2/19/2008 3:40:25 AM , Rating: 2
This comment just goes to show how rubbish the article itself is since, for me, that is a fairly accurate statement. While I choose a Mac because it just works better for me than a Windows machine I honestly do feel as though it is slightly rebellious. Sad, I know, but definitely more on the button than suggesting I buy 5-pairs of trainers per year (more like 1-pair every five years unless I'm heavily playing sports) or that I drink in Starbucks (...er, Costa Coffee for me, when I get the chance).


Jobs does not fart
By tmouse on 2/18/2008 12:53:35 PM , Rating: 5
In regards to another comment; ask any Mac user and they will flat out tell you Steve Jobs does NOT fart; he releases flatulence. However in a move to "green" Apple and cut down on the production of green house gasses he was the first to receive their newest product the i-FART. The i-FART (inline flatulence attenuated rectal technology) is a colorectal catalytic converter that converts these unsightly gases to harmless activated charcoal and water vapor. One beneficial side effect that has been observed is tight a@@ed A+ personalities may produce diamonds.

The dailytech is probably under NDA until Jobs releases an i-FART at the next stockholders meeting.




By KristopherKubicki (blog) on 2/19/2008 11:52:01 AM , Rating: 2
DailyTech doesn't sign NDAs ... even for Mr. Jobs :)


RE: Jobs does not fart
By BruceLeet on 2/19/2008 12:13:40 PM , Rating: 2
Jobs can fart in a rectangular box and sell it to the regular Apple guy, which is exactly what he did with Macbook Air. That thing is as useful as MS' Notepad


So true
By phatboye on 2/18/2008 12:43:04 PM , Rating: 2
I have a professor at my college who puts up videos for our class projects. Unfortunately all the videos are encoded using on of Apples proprietary formats embedded on in a web page. Over half of the class is complaining to him that they are unable to view the files correctly from their home computers and instead of placing the blame on apples horrible windows quicktime plugin he goes around telling the class that the problem lies within MS windows and that our computers are infected with spyware. After all the video files work perfectly on his Apple Mac computer. Hell, he even told us that he can view the files perfectly on his IPhone so the problem can’t lie with his files (or somehow the Windows version of the quicktime plugin). He then recommends for all of us to dump our PCs and make the switch to Apple MAC computers. I assured him that my PC isn’t infected with spyware as I am running GNU/Linux and I regularly check my system for problems. He then started rambling on about how it could by my ISP that is blocking me from correctly viewing the content.




RE: So true
By Donkeyshins on 2/18/2008 2:04:51 PM , Rating: 6
Remember - those who can't do, teach.


Its true
By martinrichards23 on 2/18/2008 12:20:38 PM , Rating: 5
I must say I can't help agreeing. Whenever there is some tiny problem in Windows or Linux, Mac users always like to make a point of how in OSX it "just works", as if everything Apple is perfect, which is complete BS.

If Microsoft bundled their software and hardware together as Apple do, there would be a massive backlash, not to mention law suits and competition law fines. On the other hand no one seems to mind that Apple do it.

People moan that MS put DRM in Vista. Apple put DRM in every iPod users pocket! But of course MS are the baddies.

If you want to be justifiably smug, use Linux. MacBooks are for sitting around in Starbucks pretending to be an aspiring author.




RE: Its true
By Omega215D on 2/18/2008 3:21:21 PM , Rating: 2
Maybe the people who bash Vista here are those who run Linux and Mac (this is from reading posts back when Windows Vista SP1 had some problems).


Vista Snob
By bldckstark on 2/18/2008 12:58:56 PM , Rating: 2
The IT staff here at work thinks I am a snob because I use Vista at home. They got a new PC here with Vista on it, and I had to go set up the wireless connection for them, since they do not broadcast the SSID.

By the way, I have three Vista computers. One with Home, one with Business, and one with Ultimate. All three of them JUST WORK. One is an older AMD 64 home build, one is a high line laptop, and the other is a cheap laptop. There are also three XP desktops and one Windows Home Server. I guess maybe I am a snob, but I only bought one pair of shoes last year!




RE: Vista Snob
By Domicinator on 2/18/2008 1:11:18 PM , Rating: 2
I'm with you there, brother. I am running my entire network here at home on Vista. My gaming rig and my laptop are on Vista Home Premium. I use my Xbox 360 as a Windows Media Center Extender through my wireless network. My wife's Mac has to go in via an ethernet cable because her job locks it down and won't let it get on outside networks. But anyway, I essentially have four machines on my Vista based home network, and everything runs VERY smoothly. In fact, I'm doing things on this network that I was never able to figure out on past versions of Windows. That's not to say these things weren't possible before. It's more likely that Vista's networking features are so much easier to use than past versions that I was just able to do it without having to dig around.

I should also mention I haven't had ANY issues with gaming performance on Vista and even during the first couple months of launch, I really didn't have any pressing issues with Vista except for the initial video card drivers and Nero Vision. Both of those issues have been fixed now. I also rarely get spyware, and I NEVER get viruses. I never got viruses on XP either, but Vista seems to REALLY cut down on the amount of spyware I get. I attribute my lack of viruses more to AVG than anything else.


RE: Vista Snob
By UNCjigga on 2/18/2008 2:49:59 PM , Rating: 2
Have you tried copying files via wifi? How's that hourglass working out for ya? ;)


This is funny..
By bangmal on 2/18/2008 1:18:01 PM , Rating: 2
This "study" is just another way of saying the apple users can afford to spend more than the pc users, thus make them "snobs".

But this is simply not true. A top PC configuation costs more than anything apple can come up with. A lot of pc users spend hundreds,if not thousands of dollars on hardware every year. Not to mention the games available only onc PC platform.




RE: This is funny..
By Donkeyshins on 2/18/2008 2:03:53 PM , Rating: 2
Yes, but it's not exactly the same - I'll wager a not-insignificant percentage of PC power users out there do the rolling upgrade - e.g. upgrade one component (RAM, video card, processor) at a time and very rarely do a full-blown ground-up build. You can't really do that with an Apple. When was the last time you heard a Mac user say "I'm going to build out a new system and keep the case & PSU from my G4 but buy a new Mac Pro motherboard and then go to Newegg and buy a new Core 2 Duo processor."

Case in point - I can trace my current system back to my original 386DX-25 (with coprocessor!) from 1993 - every upgrade has had at least one piece of hardware that has been carried forward.


RE: This is funny..
By kelmon on 2/19/2008 4:00:17 AM , Rating: 2
This is true but I found that upgrading a component of a PC with any great significance generally required you to upgrade the other components to get the best out of it. The performance increases delivered by my GeForce 4 card were not realised properly until the RAM was upgraded from PC133 to DDR. Small changes don't need system-wide upgrades but anything substantial will probably need big changes all around otherwise you just hit a new bottleneck. There's no compulsion to make these changes but it seems a bit of a waste if you aren't getting the best from your new hardware.

It should be noted that a Mac maintains a good degree of its value so buying a new one is not really all that expensive if you sell the old one unless it is very old.


In Defense...
By Are Back on 2/18/2008 12:07:54 PM , Rating: 3
Let's not be too stereotypical here. Certainly we've all met Mac owners who tout their infallible Apple device as the greatest thing ever, and everything else infinitely inferior to it.
But I must ask that people try not assuming the worst when they encounter a Mac user. I bought one just to see for myself what all the fuss is about, and I can plainly see the MANY MANY things wrong with it.

So... don't assume.




RE: In Defense...
By shreddR on 2/18/2008 12:33:31 PM , Rating: 2
LOL

couldn't agree more, waste of money


No, you've got it backwards
By Polynikes on 2/18/2008 12:52:30 PM , Rating: 2
It's not Macs making people snobby, it's simply the case that Macs appeal to snobby people.




RE: No, you've got it backwards
By jimbojimbo on 2/19/2008 1:32:46 PM , Rating: 2
I'd give this comment more points if I had any left. So true.


SP
By SlyNine on 2/18/2008 4:33:56 PM , Rating: 2
The smug cloud over South Park is getting bigger and drifting west, where it will join with the San Francisco cloud. Unfortunately, the two will be joined by a smug cloud that originated from George Clooney’s Academy Award acceptance speech. When all three of them come together, they are going to create a “perfect storm” of self-satisfaction.




RE: SP
By Icehearted on 2/18/2008 7:49:01 PM , Rating: 2
Dangit..... you beat me to the punch. Now if you'll excuse me I'm off to buy a Mac so I too can enjoy the fragrant scent of my own farts.


lets consider the other side too
By tanishalfelven on 2/18/2008 12:44:06 PM , Rating: 1
i feel this is more of joke post than anything else but i'll still say this.

SOME mac users do know what they're doing and are not just out to look cool.
i met this computer engineer who worked for amd (he came to buy by desk) in austin. he used a mac. upon some questioning he gave very solid reasons that some people here might learn from.

1. its closer to a unix environment which is what he used at work and (like many of us) found more comfortable

2. unlike linux there was a native version of MS office

3. (i didn't know this and am not sure about this) apparently you can run windows and windows programs in a transparent manner, without having to deal with the windows. this maybe refering to vmware type virtualisation or maybe something else.




RE: lets consider the other side too
By kelmon on 2/19/2008 4:11:09 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
3. (i didn't know this and am not sure about this) apparently you can run windows and windows programs in a transparent manner, without having to deal with the windows. this maybe refering to vmware type virtualisation or maybe something else.


Sounds like they might have been describing CodeWeaver's CrossOver implementation of WINE, assuming that they were referring to running Windows applications without Windows itself. I've not tried this myself since compatibility isn't 100% even in supported applications so I use VMWare's Fusion product instead and run Windows XP in a sandbox environment.


superiority
By Bigjee on 2/18/2008 7:16:35 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
Chuck Norris wanted a laptop ; he chose the Macbook Pro.

They say Chuck was walking down the street one day when he came across a thief. Chuck just reached into his shoulder bag and revealed his Macbook Pro.

The thief is now a priest at the local monastery.




This is new?
By SoCalBoomer on 2/18/2008 12:06:15 PM , Rating: 2
Wow - I'm flabbergasted! Mac users are snobs? Wow. Who knew?

Pbbth.




Oh, the cult of Mac.
By Transatlantic Foe on 2/18/2008 12:32:12 PM , Rating: 2
In Apple's defense, I'd say that they make well engineered, functional machines. Do alot of their users need to get a clue and not act like pompous, arrogant jerks? It's not a religion, you aren't better than anyone else for using a specific brand of computer, get over it.

By the way, I do own a Macbook Pro that I love because it does everything I need to do, and it's getting me through architecture school. Personally, I like both Windows (NT, 2000, and XP) and OS X; they both have their purpose.




Not so green
By hyperdoggy on 2/18/2008 12:41:32 PM , Rating: 2
Snobs aside, the plus side of Mac users is that they go for green products. It urks me when someone drives one of those huge 8mpg SUV to the market than another that drives a Prius. Ironically apple products are anything but green.




Simple psychology at work
By ShadowZERO on 2/18/2008 1:18:28 PM , Rating: 2
Anyone who buys into a minority(in this case mac vs. pc) is going to have to develop thick skin to criticism. Of course they are going to get defensive if you survey them based on what computer they use. News Flash: Mac users probably aren't computer experts. Hell, would they be using Mac if they were?




lol
By Randum on 2/18/2008 1:29:29 PM , Rating: 2
just confirming what we already knew...

mac is a trend. not technology.




By quickk on 2/18/2008 1:35:12 PM , Rating: 2
I don't understand why so many of you love to hate macs. There are a lot of reasons to use a mac, which don't involve sitting in Starbucks sipping your overpriced drink.

The operating system has a unix core, which means that you can pretty much do anything that you could do in Linux with OSX. For example, I want to use some software which is installed on a remote (unix) machine. All I have to do is log in via ssh with the -X flag and I can use the software locally even though it is running on the remote machine.

Before I get flamed, I should point out that I've been using PCs for years. I've built all my home machines and I know about the intricate details of overclocking, memory timings, etc (my first overclock was a celeron 300A!).

Also, I've been using windows since version 3.1. In the last year or so however, I've moved towards Linux and now I can't stand using windows anymore. However, Linux does have it's problems when it comes to multimedia, which is why OSX is the perfect operating system for me.

Anyway, what I'm trying to say is don't bash it 'till you try it. If you're happy with windows, then great!




85% of Mac users
By trexpesto on 2/18/2008 3:16:29 PM , Rating: 2
- 4 Obama! Hillaryous!




By fictisiousname on 2/18/2008 4:30:37 PM , Rating: 2
Just the way the font is leaning to the right. Admit it, you're JEALOUS you didn't pay more for your computer.

|~ -|
{@ @}
\ O /
v




Macitude
By kyleb2112 on 2/18/2008 10:58:48 PM , Rating: 2
The Mac Guy attitude gets particularly grating when I'm upgrading their RAM because they don't know how.




Puff N Stuff
By Jynx980 on 2/19/2008 12:25:46 AM , Rating: 2
The voice over woman kept puffing into the mic. I soon became entranced by the sounds and forgot what the hell I was watching.




Nerds for Macs
By macnerd on 2/19/2008 9:40:39 AM , Rating: 2
Well I can certainly see how the perception of Mac users is encouraged by some of the results of the survey. It doesn't fit completely. Take me for example. I've been working with PC's since the original 8086/8088. I develop software, (VB.Net, Oracle, PHP, Java, C), I don't have an artsy bone in my body. I'm a former Special Operations qualified sniper (SOTIC). I drive a diesel Chevy 2500HD 4X4. I love guns and am extremely conservative and a Christian with 4 boys.

I just got tired of always fixing PC's, more notably Windows OS PCs. People like me, maybe I'm the only one, use Macs because they work. I don't have to work them to get my job done. I got tired of editing .conf files in Unix too. With my Mac's, the computer becomes an extension of what I want to do. Since I got back into using them with OS X arrival, I've never had to reload an OS, never had a virus, never had spyware. Never had to RTFM for getting the machine to just work. That may come across as arrogance, if so, sorry about that. For me it's just passionate belief in a something that works.




So...Mac Users are Democrats?
By mondo1234 on 2/18/2008 12:42:42 PM , Rating: 1
Save the earth, drive a hibrid, be open minded....so much for Hillary and Obama. Must be a slow news day for the (according to the article) the bleeding heart liberals.




Too bad
By hlper on 2/18/08, Rating: -1
RE: Too bad
By ajfink on 2/18/2008 12:33:29 PM , Rating: 3
I know the feeling. I never cease to be annoyed by Mac users around campuses that almost seem aghast that I'm not a Mac user.


RE: Too bad
By nowayout99 on 2/18/2008 12:41:10 PM , Rating: 3
It's not really unlike the mean-spirited comments many Mac uses have for PC users, is it?


RE: Too bad
By hlper on 2/18/2008 12:48:01 PM , Rating: 2
Honestly, I am not sure. None of the Mac users I know personally seem to do that. However, perhaps that is what they do on Mac dominated blogs. It's beside the point really though. I just don't see the need.


RE: Too bad
By ajfink on 2/18/2008 12:49:11 PM , Rating: 2
I think a lot of the steam has been released from the day-to-day bickering between Mac users and PC users. It's been beaten to death.


RE: Too bad
By VashHT on 2/18/2008 1:36:09 PM , Rating: 3
I can tell that personally most of my hatred for MAC users comes from the fact that all of the ones I know love to quote the BS from their PC vs Mac commercials and in general spout all kinds of misinformation about PC's as if it was all fact. For example, one of my good friends bought a macbook to replace is virus ridden Dell notebook saying that Macs were immune to viruses. After 5 or 6 months is macbook was barely working because it was badly infected and he ended up just buying the new OS and wiping everything on it. I agree with you though, there is no need to resort to petty insults and name-calling, I tend to keep my mouth shut when people start bragging about their Macs at work.


RE: Too bad
By kelmon on 2/19/2008 3:21:25 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
After 5 or 6 months is macbook was barely working because it was badly infected and he ended up just buying the new OS and wiping everything on it.


I'm sorry? Infected with what? I can see that a Boot Camp partition could be infected but there's still pretty much nothing out there that infects OS X. What on earth was your friend doing? Apologies if this is genuine but it just sounds exaggerated if not just made-up. I do not disputes that exploits do exist (particularly in QuickTime) but I have never heard of anyone actually experiencing one let alone to the extent that their computer was "badly infected".


RE: Too bad
By Donkeyshins on 2/18/2008 1:46:37 PM , Rating: 3
As a recovering grad student (10 years sober - one day at a time, man!), I can say with full honesty that academia really cries out for more dead cat swinging. Or, to put it in economist terms - "Assume a dead cat."


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