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You can run but you can't hide from the MPAA

The Motion Picture Association of America, Inc. (MPAA) has expanded its crackdown on online movie piracy by filing seven new lawsuits against online sites. Websites targeted include Isohunt.com, BTHub.com, TorrentBox.com, TorrentSpy.com, NiteShadow.com, Ed2k-it.com, NZB-Zone.com, BinNews.com and DVDRs.net.

“Website operators who abuse technology to facilitate infringements of copyrighted works by millions of people are not anonymous – they can and will be stopped. Disabling these powerful networks of illegal file distribution is a significant step in stemming the tide of piracy on the Internet,” said John G. Malcolm, Executive Vice President and Director of Worldwide Anti-Piracy Operations for the MPAA.

You can read more here. (PDF)

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MPAA/RIAA need to take a math class.
By Sunrise089 on 2/24/2006 1:32:46 AM , Rating: 5
Regardless of the morality of music/movie piracy, I hate the way these companies count how much money was "lost" due to piracy. Just because someone downloaded a album does not mean he/she was going to purchase it for $13. If they would look at any supply/demand curve they would see that for a highly elastic good (luxeries like movie tickets) as price goes up quantity demanded goes down sharply. This is the same reason free samples cannot be equated to potential purchases. If someone has the option to download a slong for free they will only require a little desire to download the song. If the song costs a fai amount of money it will have to be more important to them before they make the purchase. The MPAA and RIAA do not choose to recognize this fact.




By Eomer of Aldburg on 2/24/2006 2:11:00 AM , Rating: 2
Thats a very good point, never thought of it like that!


RE: MPAA/RIAA need to take a math class.
By abhaxus on 2/24/2006 2:16:30 AM , Rating: 3
You're exactly right of course. Both industries would be better served by lowering the cost of their goods in return for higher sales. But you really can't compete with the "free" that piracy offers.

That said, I do download both music and movies on a regular basis. I buy the movies I consider the most important, and same with music. I think the movie industry is starting to go through the same thing the music industry has been going through... that is, a lack of good material. 2005 was a dismal year in terms of movie quality. There is no way in hell I would buy a movie like Fantastic Four, or Dukes of Hazzard. However I did purchase 40 y/o virgin and wedding crashers, and of course the special edition of Batman Begins.

They just need to get a better product out.


By Jellodyne on 2/24/2006 9:33:47 AM , Rating: 2
There's no better example of this than DVD -- Used to be VHS was expensive and relatively poor quality, and the box retailers only had a small selection. DVD comes along with better quality movies at a $20 price point and the studios now make more on the DVD sales than the ticket sales. And now that the price points are dropping to $15, $10 or even $5 for catalog titles they're seeing more money than then ever.


RE: MPAA/RIAA need to take a math class.
By MScrip on 2/24/2006 1:00:15 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
But you really can't compete with the "free" that piracy offers.


A free illegal MP3 can take the place of a purchased song and sound just as good to most people... But I don't think that a 700mb AVI file of a movie is the equivalent of a movie ticket or a DVD. I'm just not believing that people are choosing downloading movies over theaters or DVDs. They are not competing with "free" they are just not going at all. The loss in Hollywood is people just not going to sucky movies or buying DVDs.

While a free MP3 sounds like the CD version, a downloaded movie shares nothing with the theater or DVD version.


RE: MPAA/RIAA need to take a math class.
By masher2 (blog) on 2/24/2006 2:19:27 PM , Rating: 2
For many people, a downloaded movie can and _does_ take the place of purchasing the real thing. The quality difference between a 700mb divx version and the full DVD is minimal...and indeed, some people download an iso image of the full DVD.



RE: MPAA/RIAA need to take a math class.
By MScrip on 2/24/2006 2:58:10 PM , Rating: 3
True, downloads can look good. But, the mojority of consumers are not downloading movies. Think of all the technically challenged people who can't even burn a CD, let alone download torrents and burn a DVD.

My very first post on this topic talks about the people who still go to movies and buy DVDs. Those people make up the mojority of movie watchers.

Finding Nemo, one of the most popular kids movies of all times, sold $136 million of DVDs its first day of sales! Was it available to download? Sure, weeks before retail... but somehow it still sold hundreds of millions of dollars of DVDs.

Sure, many people download movies... but MOST people get their movies by purchasing them.

And, if a movie does poorly at the box office... it's not because people downloaded it... it's because it sucked.

Now, a tiny percentage of tech-savvy people might have downloaded it instead of going to see it... but that's a far cry from the entire viewing public.


By masher2 (blog) on 2/24/2006 4:50:39 PM , Rating: 2
The only reason movie receipts aren't being negatively impacted by downloads yet is that few people have sufficient bandwidth to easily engage in the practice.

All this aside, it doesn't really change the primary point. Whether downloads are good, bad, or neutral for the industry, they're still illegal and unethical. And the industry has a right to stop them.


By Christopher1 on 2/25/2006 12:53:16 AM , Rating: 1
That quote that "you can't compete with free" is not really true.
I would GLADLY pay for the peace of mind that I am downloading a file at a reasonable price that I can be sure will be free of viruses, spyware and other nasties.

But notice that 'reasonable' stipulation. The MPAA and RIAA don't want to give a reasonable price, they want the same overly inflated fixed prices that they have been getting in stores.


By bob661 on 2/24/2006 2:13:07 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Batman Begins.
Oh. Forgot about that movie. That was a good one.


RE: MPAA/RIAA need to take a math class.
By DrMrLordX on 2/24/2006 3:02:06 AM , Rating: 2
They also fail to take into account that file-sharing piracy, either via the Internet, a local network, or portable media has a "free advertising" effect similar to "word-of-mouth" advertising. The single best way to hook someone on your product is to give them(or inadvertantly let them) get ahold of it at no cost. One guy juarezes a game, loves it, and hooks his buddies on it. Soon, copies of the game are sold that might never have been purchased. I see it happen all the time, especially when you have games with activation keys that can only be played offline when pirated, but can be played online by way of a peering service only if a legit key is used during installation. NWN was a good example of this for me. I bought the base game ages ago, pirated the expansions, then went back and bought the Platinum Edition(base game + both expansions) to play online with friends on Persistant World(PW) servers. Bioware got my money even though I pirated it. Several of my friends got their money, too.

This so-called piracy feeds into unintended viral marketting processes that actually INCREASE SALES for software, music, and television/movie DVDs. To what extent, I do not know, but the effect is there. It is possible that publishers of popular content might actually lose money if all so-called piracy stopped.


By masher2 (blog) on 2/24/2006 10:19:21 AM , Rating: 1
What a way to justify theft and piracy. That's like a guy claiming his theft of a few XBox 360s were only intended to "get the word out" on how good the product was.


By bob661 on 2/24/2006 2:14:53 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
juarezes
Is that spanish?


By clubok on 2/24/2006 10:20:50 PM , Rating: 2
There's an important difference here, one you point out yourself. Pirating NWN works fine for playing single-player, but you need a legit key to play online. So the pirated copy was enough to suck you in, but not enough to give you full functionality. In a sense, the pirated copy worked like a demo copy for you.

The difference is that when you download a movie, there is little more to be gained by buying it - especially if you get an ISO image.

That said, I suspect that a fairer way to count lost revenue from file sharing would be to assume that the piracy replaces rentals - not sales. My guess is that most people downloading a movie just want to watch it once - not keep a permanent copy. (Again, a major difference from NWN, with its near-infinite replay value.) I bet that a lot of people download movies not because it is cheaper than renting, but more convenient than taking a trip to the video store or library. If the torrent sites went down, many of them would simply rent the movies. And those who did want permanent copies would simply copy the rental.


Screw the movie guys!
By Hacp on 2/24/2006 12:50:07 AM , Rating: 3
They should mind their own buisiness. Maybe make better movies? I mean with all the stupid sequels, no wonder overall movie ticket sales are going down. And why should they target the torrent sites anyways? I actually use some of these torrent sites for legit purposes (time shift TV shows).

And no I don't download any movies from torrent sites. I use netflix to rent the movies I want to watch.




Blockbuster Movie Pass Gives Them For Free
By Exodus220 on 2/24/2006 1:16:21 AM , Rating: 2
I used to have a movie pass at Blockbuster and would take the movie and make a copy at home, that was much quicker than downloading the film and I was guaranteed good quality. Now I work for Blockbuster and get 7 movies free a week. However, not all the movies seem to copy properly, some kind of cycle redundancy error with DVDShrink. Anyways, I only use the torrent sites for TV shows like LOST and The OC when I miss them because of work.


By Sunrise089 on 2/24/2006 1:29:00 AM , Rating: 2
for my legal fair-use backing up of my legal store bought DVDs I use DVD X Copy, and it has never had any sort of problem. I can't vouch for every DVD of course, but you might want to try it.


By Snuffalufagus on 2/24/2006 4:12:23 AM , Rating: 2
FWIW, to make a legal BU of something you might own that runs into a cyclical redundancy error you might want to search the terms 'download' and 'dvd decrypter'. Then, using the decrypted files make an ISO with shrink and then BU the ISO.

As for the article, no shit they're going to sue these people, and everyone associated with them that they can get a piece of. The people who host the media, post it, transfer it, whatever, all knew (or should have known) that it would just be a matter of time. And the more you do it, the more they want to make an example of you and jack the fine up. Right or wrong, it's common sense.


By DigitalFreak on 2/24/2006 8:34:13 AM , Rating: 2
Try AnyDVD


wow
By Eomer of Aldburg on 2/24/2006 12:06:42 AM , Rating: 5
STFU Picture assocation. First Post




RE: wow
By Xenoterranos on 2/24/2006 12:10:59 AM , Rating: 1
w00t


RE: wow
By beacon on 2/24/2006 4:16:48 AM , Rating: 2
hahaha that has to be the only "First Post" I've ever seen with a 5 rating. :D


You can't stop it...
By MScrip on 2/24/2006 12:31:22 AM , Rating: 5
You can't stop an -acy... piracy

Just like you can't stop an -ism... terrorism

quote:
"Torrentbox.com,boasts of enabling over one million illegal downloads of Fantastic Four and over 4.4 million downloads of Alien 2."


Wow, those are great examples!

quote:
The MPAA estimates that the film industry lost approximately $3.5 billion to movie piracy in 2004


2004 movies: Shrek 2, Spiderman 2, The Passion of the Christ, Meet the Fockers, Incedibles, Harry Potter 3... Those six movies totalled almost $2 billion dollars at the box office! That's pretty damn good considering people don't go to the movies like they used to. Piracy is not the reason for box office losses..

Kids: "Mom, can we go see Shrek 2?"

Mom: "No... let's see if we can find it on TorrentSpy!"

Moral of the story: They went to the theater, 2 adults and 2 children saw Shrek 2. They bought popcorn and candy, they bought t-shirts, lunch boxes and trapper keepers, and they also bought the DVD... Cha-ching!




RE: You can't stop it...
By fliguy84 on 2/24/2006 1:12:49 AM , Rating: 1
lolz that is hilarious


RE: You can't stop it...
By masher2 (blog) on 2/24/2006 10:21:10 AM , Rating: 2
Theft also isn't the reason GM lost $8.5 billion dollars last year. Does that mean its ok to go steal a new Cadillac?


Real Reason for Financial Problem
By TomZ on 2/24/2006 8:43:08 AM , Rating: 4
It's widely known that movie and CD sales are down quite a bit. The industry attributes this to illegal copying. But I think this it their own fault, for two reasons. First, they have been very slow to understand, assimilate, and embrace new technologies and distribution methods. Clearly consumers don't want to consume media in the same way they did in the past.

Second, you have to really look at the quality of what is being produced. A majority of what these industries produce is pure crap. And what a surprise that folks are not enthused about purchasing it? When was the last time you saw a movie, and at the end thought to yourself, now what was the point of that? Too many movies are made just because they have a business to run, so they just churn out another "formula" movie to keep product flowing. I really think that Hollywood needs to look harder to find new talent, and more interesting content, instead of just selling the same crap over and over.




RE: Real Reason for Financial Problem
By TomZ on 2/24/2006 8:55:21 AM , Rating: 4
I also forgot to mention the third problem, which is the content producers approach with DRM. Their idea is they can limit your use of content in any way they please. Clearly, from a legal perspective, this is correct. But do you think consumers will accept this? If I buy a song from iTunes that uses Apple's proprietary DRM, and I want to play that song on my car's CD player - guess what: I can't - and I have to buy the song again. What if in a few years, there is another DRM standard - guess what - I have to buy the song again. This is just what content owners want - they want you to buy their content like Dixie cups. Buy something, use it for a little while, throw it away, but it again, etc.


Durr, not in the US?
By Cygni on 2/24/2006 2:24:26 PM , Rating: 2
All of these sites arent even based in the US, and the countries they ARE based in normally dont give a flying crap what the MPAA thinks. Good luck shutting down servers in Tikrit and Bodambo Kenya, guys. ;)




RE: Durr, not in the US?
By masher2 (blog) on 2/24/2006 4:47:11 PM , Rating: 3
Ever hear of treaties such as WIPO or the Berne Convention? I didn't think so. It doesn't matter what those nations think of the MPAA, they're still bound by international copyright law.



RE: Durr, not in the US?
By Christopher1 on 2/25/2006 12:54:38 AM , Rating: 2
Not if they didn't sign those things! Saudi Arabia never signed, Iraq never signed, Syria never signed, the list goes on and on and on.

You can't enforce something on a country that that country didn't agree to.


Lets see...
By shabby on 2/24/2006 7:54:18 AM , Rating: 2
The mpaa is filing lawsuits on websites that tell you where to find illegal downloads? Maybe they should start with google first.




RE: Lets see...
By masher2 (blog) on 2/24/2006 10:16:40 AM , Rating: 2
There's a huge difference betweeen a search engine and a torrent clearinghouse...as I suspect you well realize.


RE: Lets see...
By bob661 on 2/24/2006 2:18:09 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
There's a huge difference betweeen a search engine and a torrent clearinghouse...as I suspect you well realize.
There may be a difference between the two but it could be argued that Google facilitates piracy by allowing these websites to be found by the end user. Don't be surprised if Google, Yahoo, and others end up in the MPAA/RIAA's sights.


Old comparison
By shortylickens on 2/24/2006 12:21:15 AM , Rating: 2
Once again I cite the comparison to gun manufacturers.
Are we going to bring law suits against Smith & Wesson every time somebody gets shot?

They also worded their statement in such a way as to make the websites seem like they are actually sharing files (illegally). I call that liabel. Countersuit!

On a completely unrelated note: I like DC.




RE: Old comparison
By Lifted on 2/24/2006 2:24:11 AM , Rating: 2
And I call it libel.


RE: Old comparison
By Christopher1 on 2/25/2006 12:50:11 AM , Rating: 1
True, EDonkey servers have no files stored on them, save a listing of ALL files.
They never have ANYTHING on them except that!

This seems like stretching the law to the breaking point. The people who run the EDonkey server have NO control over what is in that list, it is just a verbatim list from the people who are using the EDonkey service.

They have no way of taking anything off or putting anything on.


Why buy them?
By BladeVenom on 2/24/2006 9:57:08 AM , Rating: 3
I don't understand why anyone would even buy CDs anymore. With spyware, rootkits, copy protection that keeps it from working, and a no refund policy it seems stupid to buy CDs anymore. I haven't bought a CD since I ran into two that wouldn't even play on my PC, one wouldn't even play in my stand alone CD player, and stores won't refund money on media.

The movie and music cartels are the biggest crooks in this country, far worse than any other organized crime group. They've ripped people off, hindered technology, and corrupted our government and our laws.




RE: Why buy them?
By anselhelm on 2/26/2006 7:07:15 AM , Rating: 2
Getting around CD protection is easy, though the fact that it's there at all angers me greatly as most people won't have the knowledge of how to get around it. Simplest way I've found is to digitally extract the tracks to wave sound (.wav) using IsoBuster then make another CD from those tracks, making sure of course you use a burner than understands you don't want gaps between your songs!!!

You are correct though: companies are making the laws for us, and this MUST come to an end, peacefully if at all possible, though I'm not against a war if they turn it into one.


thanks guys
By mforce2 on 2/24/2006 11:05:13 AM , Rating: 2
Hey I want to take a moment and thank the guys at MPAA for the nice web links . I think this really is a good way of promoting bittorrent and bittorent sites and I'm sure they're greatful . Edonkey also ows the MPAA one .
I think they forgot about Kazaa and the other guys now . I'm sure they'd love some more free publicity but hey , the MPAA can only do so much .
MPAA : "Promoting sites that let you get free movies" .




RE: thanks guys
By sircuit on 2/24/2006 11:24:49 AM , Rating: 3
The more seeds the better :)


well damn
By pspahn970 on 2/25/2006 11:35:36 PM , Rating: 3
i had a nice long post all written up that I spent 20 minutes on, and this damn website said "oops, something went wrong". I thought I had ctrl-c'd it but apparently I didn't and ctrl-v'd something I wrote earlier. However, thats fine, since it is a list of REAL MOVIES. Movies worth watching because they are GOOD. Not too many "blockbusters" up there huh?




RE: well damn
By ShinoOoo on 2/26/2006 11:57:24 PM , Rating: 2
You might have used the 'back' button of you browser ..
had the same problem, solved it this way . Firefox does it at least..

sorry for the off-topic thinggy. all truth and relevant opinions have already been told. crappy movies, abusive laws, wrong calculations ...


By LuxFestinus on 2/24/2006 5:54:26 AM , Rating: 2
Chop one head off two more grow back. Chop six heads off and twelve will grow.




By DigitalFreak on 2/24/2006 8:34:56 AM , Rating: 2
That's why you go straight for the body.


Blame Netflix
By kattanna on 2/24/2006 1:17:39 PM , Rating: 4
I used to buy a LOT of DVD's but now i just netflix most movies and only buy maybe a couple of DVD's a year of the REALLY good movies.

and netflix has even affected my theather going as well..

when I do go to the theather nowadays, which is getting rarer all the time, me and the girlfriend rate movies as

1) OH..nice
2) nice..but lets netflix it
3) LOL..whatever...

as is known to us here...there are lots of movies that aren't worth the price of a matinee admission, much less the price of a DVD rental

maybe hollywood and the music industry should finally start to focus more on quality than quantity...but i dont see it happening anytime soon.

and even those movies that i wouldnt mind seeing in the theater, depending on the nature of the movie ie silly comedy..or serious adventure, the crowds that will be drawn to some make it so that i will wait.

hmmm....watch a movie in the peace and quiet of my own home...

or having to put up with people talking..large people sitting right next to you taking up more then their share of space..or kids bored and crying..and knowing you paid a premium to do so..

hmmm...tough choice there




Facts and Figures for 2005
By Methusela on 2/24/2006 2:19:35 PM , Rating: 3
From an industry email,

quote:
Worldwide boxoffice for 2005 was $22 billion give-or-take. The top 100 films generated $14.4 billion or 65% of the total. The top 25 - $8.3 billion or 38%. The top 10 (alone) a whopping $5.2 billion or 24% (the U.S. boxoffice was even more skewed with the top ten accounting for 27% of total boxoffice). Of the top 10 - 8 were escape/fantasy films and 2 were comedy/dramas. Of the top 25 - 11 were escape/fantasy, 8 comedy/drama, 4 drama/adventure, 1 horror, and 1 documentary.

There were 527 major releases in 2005, with the top 200 films generating a stunning 95% of global boxoffice leaving the remaining 300+ releases accounting for only 5%. Worldwide there were 7.8 billion admissions in 2005, down from 8.4 billion in 2004. North America accounted for 45%, Europe - 30%, Asia/Pacific - 18%, all others - 7%.


Clearly, the problem is the amount of crappy movies being released.




New bands/films
By probedb on 2/24/2006 5:38:19 AM , Rating: 2
Hmm, so all the new bands I've discovered through downloading then gone and bought the album obviously means nothing to them. All they actually care about is the money, nothing more, nothing less, they just want more money.




I can do that too
By KazenoKoe on 2/24/2006 9:28:12 AM , Rating: 2
“Website operators who abuse technology to facilitate infringements of copyrighted works by millions of people are not anonymous – they can and will be stopped.

wheee..

"Corporate executives who abuse technology to facilitate infringements of millions of peoples' rights and freedoms are not anonymous – they can and will be stopped.




Newsgroups
By bob661 on 2/24/2006 2:10:52 PM , Rating: 2
Someone needs to tell the MPAA that newsgroups aren't web based.




right...
By pspahn970 on 2/25/2006 11:33:23 PM , Rating: 2
Gangster No. 1<br>
Clockwork Orange<br>
2001<br>
Dr. Strangelove<br>
THX 1138<br>
Star Wars<br>
True Romance<br>
Kill Bill V1<br>
The Grizzly Man<br>
Goodfellas<br>
Midnight Express<br>
Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind<br>
American Beauty<br>
Donnie Darko<br>
Breakfast Club<br>
The Goonies<br>
The Usual Suspects<br>
The Decline of Western Civilization<br>
Lost in Translation<br>
Turtles Can Fly<br>
Office Space<br>
Poolhall Junkies<br>
Box Full of Moonlight<br>
Pulp Fiction<br>




dear MPAoA
By somasaint on 2/26/2006 3:11:41 AM , Rating: 2
"Websites targeted include Isohunt.com, BTHub.com, TorrentBox.com, TorrentSpy.com, NiteShadow.com, Ed2k-it.com, NZB-Zone.com, BinNews.com and DVDRs.net."

-i will be sure to check out those sites.

much appreciated-




chinese:
By kyoby on 2/24/06, Rating: 0
RE: chinese:
By kyoby on 2/24/2006 12:11:23 AM , Rating: 1
o,no
this site not support chinese


RE: chinese:
By KazenoKoe on 2/24/06, Rating: 0
pish!
By RainDaemon on 2/24/2006 3:12:36 AM , Rating: 1
MPAA produces shit, bottom line.
Stop watching it. Stop buying it. Stop pirating it.

i don't know why you people even bother trying to see this shit, it's pure pish. There are far better souces of entertainment out there (ones that don't rip you off)

Go watch a comedy show or a live band or CREATE SOMETHING YOURSELF.

There are plenty of shows that are available freely.
(you might take interest in this: www.welcometothescene.com)

Anyway, enough rant.




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