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New version of the fighter gets radar improvements and more

The Lockheed Martin F-16 Fighting Falcon has been around for over three decades and so far there have been nearly 4,500 delivered. The F-16 will continue for many years to come and Lockheed Martin has today unveiled a new version called F-16V. The new version of the fighter jet was unveiled at the Singapore Airshow and has new feature enhancements to make the aircraft more formidable.
 
The F-16 V gets new active electronically scanned array radar (AESA), an upgraded mission computer and architecture, along with improvements inside the cockpit. Lockheed Martin says that all of those new features are things that have been identified by the USAF and international buyers as needing improvement. The AESA radar promises significant capability improvements for the aircraft and Lockheed Martin has developed a solution to affordably retrofit the new radar to existing F-16s.
 
The new F-16V configuration is now an option for new production aircraft with most elements of the upgrade available for earlier F-16s. The V designation comes from Viper, which is the nickname pilots have given the F-16 since it entered service.
 
“We believe this F-16V will satisfy our customers’ emerging requirements and prepare them to better interoperate with the 5th generation fighters, the F-35 and F-22,” said George Standridge, Lockheed Martin Aeronautics’ vice president of business development.
 
Today 26 different countries fly the F-16 and it is hailed as the world's most successful fourth-generation fighter. The upgraded AESA radar will also help F-16V to be more interoperable with fifth-generation fighters like the F-35 and F-22. The USAF is reportedly interested in upgrading between 300 and 350 of its F-16s to the new version.
 
Lockheed Martin has an order from Iraq that is large enough to keep F-16 production line open until the end of 2015; after that it needs additional orders to keep F-16 production going into 2016.

Sources: Lockheed Martin, F-16.net, flight global



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I love the Viper...
By MrBlastman on 2/16/2012 10:41:04 AM , Rating: 3
It's such a sexy jet. The curves are so smooth and it handles like a dream. It might not have stealth but it can bomb the living crap out of whatever is on the ground. Go Viper!




RE: I love the Viper...
By NullSubroutine on 2/16/2012 10:59:00 AM , Rating: 2
It needs the conformal fuel tanks.


RE: I love the Viper...
By MrBlastman on 2/16/2012 11:19:59 AM , Rating: 2
Those CFT's are HOT man. Couple them with the bigger F100-PW-229 engine and it is pretty bad a$$. I love the F-16I Sufa (Israeli variant).

I think all F-16's should carry the CFT's on missions. They have 12% of the drag of a bag (the centerline tank) and carry 50% more. They almost should be a default configuration. It beats carrying fairy tanks on the wings.


RE: I love the Viper...
By steven975 on 2/16/2012 11:52:19 AM , Rating: 2
The F110 is currently the highest-thrust F16 engine.


RE: I love the Viper...
By Samus on 2/16/2012 4:03:07 PM , Rating: 2
The F110 is technically more powerful, but the latest generation F100 is 28,984lbs and the current generation F110 is 29,160-29,588lbs, barely an improvement (less than 5%) however the UAE has a special version of the F110 (none are deployed or plan to be in the US Military) that produces, they say, 32,500lbs.

Anyway, I think after the whole Harduvel incident the F16 design is quite plagued (not as much so as the F35) and I'm tired of seeing the military continue to pour money into a 50-year old airframe.


RE: I love the Viper...
By MrBlastman on 2/16/12, Rating: 0
RE: I love the Viper...
By Reclaimer77 on 2/16/2012 11:31:03 AM , Rating: 1
Or use Cranked Arrow for double the internal fuel tank capacity :D

-paid for by the Reclaimer Make the Cranked Arrow a Reality foundation-


RE: I love the Viper...
By Omega215D on 2/16/2012 11:35:06 AM , Rating: 2
Then those BSG fighters will finally become real.


RE: I love the Viper...
By Brandon Hill (blog) on 2/16/2012 11:39:03 AM , Rating: 2
Too bad that the Strike Eagle won out in the end... although I can understand the decision

1) For the dangerous mission requirements, two engines are better than one
2) The F-15E would have used an existing airframe, the F-16XL was very highly modified (lengthened fuselage, new wings, etc)


RE: I love the Viper...
By AssBall on 2/16/2012 2:13:28 PM , Rating: 2
Eagles cost quite a bit more too IIRC. That was back when we were rich.


RE: I love the Viper...
By MrBlastman on 2/16/2012 12:43:46 PM , Rating: 3
The cranked arrow was pretty sexy in itself. If I were looking at it back then, I would have had a hard time rejecting it versus the F-15 (other than a single engine)... but I'm a Viper lover and most of us that are just go by the philosophy--One engine? So what? Just don't get hit! ;)

Looking back at it now, I've got a couple issues. The biggest is it only has two heavy weapon hardpoints and sixteen 750lb hardpoints. It can takeoff with a much heavier loadout... but can't carry "heavier" loads.

For example:

In a regular Block 40/42/50/52 F-16, you can load in addition to the traditional 4xAIM 120Cs,2x120C/2x120B or even 3x120Cs/1AIM9-X(you get the picture), you can stack on the two per wing close-in hardpoints...

12xMK82's (500 lb dumb bombs) (XL beats here) or...

4xMK 84 (2000 lb bombs)
4xGBU 10/24 (2000 lb Laser-guided bombs)
2xGBU 32 (2000 lb JDAMs) and 2xMK 84/GBU10/24 etc. etc.)
or even...
8xCBU-97 (950 lb cluster bombs)
8xCBU-87
8xCBU-58
Or a mix of any of the above and much more... just a small sampling.

All of the above would be with a bag or CFT's (bag is centerline fuel tank) or bag and CFT's to get close to the XL's fuel capacity with a modest degradation of performance.

In the XL:

You could pack 6xAIM120Cs plus...
16xMK 82's (500 lb bombs)
or maybe
2 GBU 10/24/32 etc.
4xCBU 58/87/97 etc.
16xMK-20's (Rockeye 500lb Cluster Bombs--not nearly as effective as the other, larger bombs)

All without needing fuel tanks.

The net result is a big decrease in heavy weapons carrying capacity. Most of the time you don't need that maneuverability or speed since you're in CAT III mode (AoA limited). When you do need it, you can always jettison stores quickly or wouldn't be running bombs but instead a pure A-A configuration. In pure A-A, the XL would win hands down with that extra fuel easy. In multi-role though, it begins to show some weaknesses.

Those weaknesses wouldn't have been as apparent years ago but this far into the future they are seeing what weaponry has been developed since then.

With that said, I'd still love to see the XL up in the air. It was a fine jet for sure.

(Disclaimer: All of the above contains copious amounts of raw Nerddom. Read at your own risk.)


RE: I love the Viper...
By Jedi2155 on 2/16/2012 11:02:29 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
One engine? So what? Just don't get hit! ;)


What if its a technical glitch? Still much rather have 2 engines :). However the 1 engine Falcon is still mighty sexy...

One thing I don't understand is why the Hornet is always considered so inferior to competing aircraft. Who would win, a Hornet or a Falcon? Pure A-A configuration.


RE: I love the Viper...
By MrBlastman on 2/16/2012 11:29:34 PM , Rating: 2
That's a widely debated topic, actually. :)

It depends on the model of Hornet for one thing--either regular or Super Hornet and one seat or two seat. With just the plain F18C, it can carry... umm, heh 10 Slammers (AIM 120's) and 2 heaters (AIM-9M/X's) while an F-16 can carry at most 6 Slammers.

Sooooo BVR the F-16 is in trouble. In a dogfight, well, it depends on how it is played since the F-16 can carry heaters too. The F-16 has a better thrust-to-weight ratio so it can accelerate faster and has a tighter turn. However, the F-18C can pull a MUCH higher AoA at low speed giving it a severe edge there. If the F-16 manages his energy in a dogfight, he's got a good shot. If he gets too slow, the F-18 can nail him. Both jets can also run the JHMCS (Joint Helmet Mounted Cueing System for off-axis missile shots up to say 60 degrees above the nose). The high AoA of the F-18 really comes into play here at low speed once again.

In a dogfight, jets can get slow, really fast. In the end, though, I have to defer to the old adage--it isn't the plane, it's how you use it. This has been true since World War I and hasn't changed since. It is all about the pilot in the end.


RE: I love the Viper...
By Reclaimer77 on 2/17/2012 12:56:05 PM , Rating: 1
I think "dogfighting" is mostly becoming obsolete. I read a statistic from the Gulf war (the most recent major conflict where front-line modern fighters clashed) that said something like 90%+ of all fighter to fighter engagements took place beyond visual range. It all came down to avionics, radar, and weapons. This is why stealth is becoming more and more important, obviously.


RE: I love the Viper...
By blankslate on 2/17/2012 2:38:39 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
It all came down to avionics, radar, and weapons. This is why stealth is becoming more and more important, obviously.


While this is a consideration there is a fairly recent and excellent article on the state of aerial combat here.

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2009/0...

The author managed to score an interview with an ace pilot and provides a sober account of the state of threats that our pilots might face if anything goes to hell.

an excerpt

Countries that cannot afford to build fleets of the most advanced supersonic fighters can afford to build pods with clever software to mount on older airframes. This was brought home dramatically in Cope India 2004, a large aerial-combat training exercise that pitted F-15 pilots from Elmendorf against India’s air force, which is made up of the MiG-21 and MiG-29, and the newer Mirage 2000 and Russian-built Su-30. The exercises were conducted high over north-central India, near the city of Gwalior.

“We came rolling in, like, ‘Beep-beep, superpower coming through,’” Colonel Fornof told me. “And we had our eyes opened. We learned a lot. By the third week, we were facing a threat that we weren’t prepared to face, because we had underestimated them. They had figured out how to take Russian-built equipment and improve upon it.”

A small country can buy a MiG-21 on the world weapons market for about $100,000, put in a better engine, add more-sophisticated radar and jamming systems, improve the cockpit design, and outfit it with “launch and leave” missiles comparable to the AMRAAM. These hybrid threats are more dangerous than any rival fighters America has seen in generations, and they cost much less than building a competitive fourth-generation fighter from scratch. The lower expense enables rival air forces to put more of them in the air, and because the F-15 can carry only so many munitions, American pilots found themselves overwhelmed by both technology and sheer numbers during the exercises over India.


Our military does have the most advantage weapons to play with but getting cocky can degrade that.

Granted we didn't have F-22s there and even if they were in full service by 2004,I doubt we'd use them in many exersises like that because I doubt that people in charge want possible adversaries to know what the plane is really capable of. Too bad we didn't get more of them.


RE: I love the Viper...
By Reclaimer77 on 2/17/2012 3:27:11 PM , Rating: 2
Exactly! Thank you, great read.

Obvious in a "dogfight" a MIG-21 would have a 0% chance against an F-22. But with enough equipment upgrades like avionics, radar, ECM and weapons, it could stand a chance before the "dogfight" combat stage took place. And that's the real danger than the Colonel is talking about. A missile doesn't really care what plane it was launched from.


RE: I love the Viper...
By Ringold on 2/17/2012 11:20:01 PM , Rating: 1
That part was very interesting, but the "holy crap" item for me was the thought "Holy crap, I can buy a MiG for less than a used, beat-up Cessna?!"


RE: I love the Viper...
By JonnyDough on 2/18/2012 11:15:25 AM , Rating: 2
No way in hell can you "outfit" a MiG for $100K. LOL Avionics are what are costing us a ton to upgrade. Granted, the DOD pays way too much for a lot of aircraft parts. I swapped out an alcohol filter the other day that DynCorp said was $400...


RE: I love the Viper...
By blankslate on 2/18/2012 11:55:34 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
No way in hell can you "outfit" a MiG for $100K. LOL Avionics are what are costing us a ton to upgrade. Granted, the DOD pays way too much for a lot of aircraft parts. I swapped out an alcohol filter the other day that DynCorp said was $400...


The article said a nation buy a used Mig for $100k then spend more to update avionics, add a newer jamming pod to a hardpoint on the wing, and add in an improved engine.

It didn't go into what the costs of the extra additions would be. However, even the extra costs was double the cost of the initial buy of the Mig, for 300k they would have a plane that can potentially negate the advantage that "fire and forget" missiles give our pilots and force them to get closer to the enemy... this would reduce the reaction time they have. And this would play out a superior numbers vs. a superior technology game...

The article specifically stated that countermeasures for a technology tend to cost less in the long run than the technology having countermeasures used against it.

from the article...

quote:
An AMRAAM missile like the one Rodriguez used over Kosovo was a major step forward because it frees the attacking plane from having to keep its radar pointed at the target. The American plane can launch a missile from outside the WEZ, turn, and kick on its afterburners before the target has a chance to even shoot.

These tools rely, of course, on radar, which can be jammed.

“If you can’t match your enemy’s technology, you can always subtract from it,” says Wayne Waller, a Virginia contractor who designs radar systems for the F-15. “You may invent something that gives you an advantage, but you can’t hang on to it for very long. Our radar used to be difficult to jam, but the capability to do that has improved geometrically. That knowledge is out there. And the jamming advances cost a lot less than improving the radar.”


You should read it before criticizing it.


RE: I love the Viper...
By Jedi2155 on 2/25/2012 10:42:16 PM , Rating: 2
My primary problem with the F-22/F-35 is the cost. While it is a great and wonderful plane, if you can't reduce the cost of the technology to an affordable level the numbers game will typically win.

That's where I'm hoping UAV's will come in the future. They're cheap, unmanned and can carry extra ordinance. My future scenario would be a squadron of UAV's escorted by stealth F-22's/F-35's in a large conflict scenario. The possibilities of that scenario can have many many different benefits.


RE: I love the Viper...
By JediJeb on 2/18/2012 1:42:25 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
A small country can buy a MiG-21 on the world weapons market for about $100,000, put in a better engine, add more-sophisticated radar and jamming systems, improve the cockpit design, and outfit it with “launch and leave” missiles comparable to the AMRAAM. These hybrid threats are more dangerous than any rival fighters America has seen in generations, and they cost much less than building a competitive fourth-generation fighter from scratch


This reminds me of reading the Rogue Squadron series of Star Wars novels where the pirate fleets made what were called "Uglies" where they cobbled together part of various fighters. Example was the X-Tie (Xwing wings on a TIE cockpit).

Geekiness aside, if you give some creative engineers a pile of spare parts and tell them to use their imagination, you never know what they might come up with. That will be one if the future things we will have to worry about when facing the smaller nations in battle, the totally unknown and unexpected weapons, just as we were surprised when the first IED went off.


RE: I love the Viper...
By Reclaimer77 on 2/16/2012 11:18:28 AM , Rating: 2
True. I always loved the "cranked arrow" F-16XL myself :)

http://www.f-16.net/attachments/f16xl_112.jpg


RE: I love the Viper...
By Brandon Hill (blog) on 2/16/2012 11:35:36 AM , Rating: 3
Pwned by hotlinking ;)

Here ya go: http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/5350/2010f16xl612...

That being said, as a child of the 80s, Iron Eagle was one of my favorite movies growing up. Thus, the F-16 will always be my favorite fighter :)


RE: I love the Viper...
By Reclaimer77 on 2/16/2012 11:45:28 AM , Rating: 2
LOL you too? Man Top Gun changed my life. No seriously, it did.

I actually went back the other week to the DVD collection and fired up Iron Eagle. LOL man..nostalgia does some funny things. By today's standards it was kinda a crapcan flick and not as nearly as badass as I remember it being when I was a kid hehe.

Do aviation movies even get MADE anymore? I miss them so! I mean I know there is Red Tails, but that's another pile of crap George Lucas snoozefest.

Or maybe the military adventure style movies of the 80's early 90's were part of a different, less cynical, culture.


RE: I love the Viper...
By Brandon Hill (blog) on 2/16/2012 11:44:42 AM , Rating: 2
My childhood revolved around:

Iron Eagle
Iron Eagle 2
Top Gun
Space Camp

I was a HUGE aviation/space buff from childhood through my teen years and can still rattle off just about any American-made plane form the 40s on through today.

I was such a nerd, that I would go to the library and read the JANES books (because they wouldn't let you check them out)


RE: I love the Viper...
By Reclaimer77 on 2/16/2012 12:02:39 PM , Rating: 2
We have more in common than I thought! How come we never talked about this sooner? Bah, anyway.

I'm going to see your list, cause I love those, and throw in:

Hunt For Red October
Flight of the Navigator (lawl)
The Last Starfighter
D.A.R.Y.L (just for the 5 minutes an SR-71 Blackbird is shown, worth it)
Firefox
The Right Stuff (I think it was only later that I appreciated fully this one)
Empire of the Sun

And damn what was that movie where the kid is locked up in some German prison camp and P-51's show up and bomb the crap out of it and he's all cheering "Goooooo P-51 Mustaaannngggg!!!" ??? LOL damnit! I can't remember!

God I love Google. Okay Empire of the Sun! Omg that little kid was Christian Bale?? I had no idea!


RE: I love the Viper...
By Brandon Hill (blog) on 2/16/2012 12:31:47 PM , Rating: 2
Duuuuude. The Hunt for Red October is in my top 5 favorite movies of all time.
I built my own "replica" of Clint's Firefox out of Legos :)

But the Right Stuff. That is just epicness upon epicness. I didn't see it first until my teens, but is one of my all time favorites as well. The whole movie is great but I think my favorite moment is the juxtaposition of Yeagar's modified F-104 flight and the party held for the Mercury Seven by Johnston. The flight, the woman dancing, and the astronauts giving each other knowing glances back and forth. That's some powerful isht right there :)

Oh, and "My name... Jose Jimenez" :)


RE: I love the Viper...
By Reclaimer77 on 2/16/2012 3:52:24 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I built my own "replica" of Clint's Firefox out of Legos :)


Oh man. I made the Millennium Falcon with Lego's. Too bad neither of us have pics. Well I don't lol. Would love to see a Lego Firefox!

quote:
But the Right Stuff. That is just epicness upon epicness.


So true. I think Liberals should be beaten, water-boarded, and chained to a chair with their eyelids taped open and The Right Stuff playing on a loop for about 5 days. That might work...hmmmm :P

My favorite part was when Yeager ignored the flight plan and just stood that baby on it's tail until it stalled and spun out of control. Two records in one day! Highest altitude and highest ejection freefall!


RE: I love the Viper...
By MrBlastman on 2/16/2012 3:55:18 PM , Rating: 2
Did you ever read the true story about the guy who ejected into a supercell?

http://www.damninteresting.com/rider-on-the-storm/


RE: I love the Viper...
By Reclaimer77 on 2/16/2012 4:05:37 PM , Rating: 1
Holy shit!

Thank you Blast. I enjoyed that read. It's one for the bookmark file indeed.


RE: I love the Viper...
By blankslate on 2/17/2012 1:51:29 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
So true. I think Liberals should be beaten, water-boarded, and chained to a chair with their eyelids taped open and The Right Stuff playing on a loop for about 5 days. That might work...hmmmm :P


So what do you do about liberals who watch the movie on a regular basis?

You don't have to be conservative to have fallen in love with jet fighters as a youth... or enjoy a day of plinking at the range.

I look at the the choices that are being made; cancellation of the F-22 prematurely, trying to replace the Warthog with a less durable plane (instead of updating it or coming up with another design that follows its design philosophy)...

Yet many of my views on social issues would probably piss you off.


RE: I love the Viper...
By Belard on 2/21/2012 3:38:24 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
So true. I think Liberals should be beaten, water-boarded

And then you blew it... :(

- Liberals = Liberty = Freedom (read a dictionary)
- water-boarding is torture, the USA has supported this in past and is illegal.
- no torture lead to the killing of OBL. True interrogators know and say it doesn't work.
- FOX is a foreigner owned "network", its #2 owner is a Saudi Arabian (if you want to label people). Distorting truth is not reporting, its called propaganda.
- Liberals own guns too.
- Freedom of Religion doesn't mean free to be a Christian. It means the right to be a Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Satanist, Atheist without being killed / fired / tortured / sub-class citizen. Hence the separation of Church and State is important but abused.

- Lucas, owner/creator of the most bad-ass space ship the Millennium Falcon is a Liberal... even if thou he's a bad writer and does non-cool things.

Yeager : Very few people like that anymore... but we KNOW more today than back then, so its easier to avoid killing pilots and destruction of aircraft.


RE: I love the Viper...
By SoCalBoomer on 2/21/2012 12:37:58 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
- Liberals = Liberty = Freedom (read a dictionary)


I would argue that is misleading, especially as it distinctly implies that Conservatives != Liberty or Freedom and yet we do.

The "normal" definition of Liberal typically shows Liberals believing that freedom comes from government while Conservatives believe that freedom comes from the individual. This leads to Liberals looking for more and more government while Conservatives look for less and less - Liberals typically believe government is necessary to enforce freedom while Conservatives believe government is intrusive.

quote:
And then you blew it... :(


Unfortunately, misreading his satirical comment means you blew it yourself. :)


RE: I love the Viper...
By Belard on 2/21/2012 11:09:14 PM , Rating: 2
Saying phrases like "Conservatives believe that freedom comes from the individual." but failure to execute remotely such ideas is meaningless.

What is individual when the GOP pushes for laws telling women what to do with their bodies, including ordering rape?

What is individual when big corporations pay for laws that obviously is beneficial to them, but not individual workers?

What is individual about a corporation, much less a multi-national one? No matter what, corporations are NOT people. They are not born, don't die, reproduce or use a toilet.

How can you talk about "Conservatives believe government is intrusive" when they, the GOP push:
- Christian or death
- Pro-Life, or we kill you, burn down your business, threaten you?
- In one state, the GOP has pushed 34 anti abortion bills in a single year vs the usual 2 per year.
- We have laws requiring us to have AUTO insurance.
- Anti gay rights, when the constitution said every citizen has EQUAL rights.
- Constantly shoving religious ideals into govt.
- Do as we Say, not as we do mentality. IE: before GWBush was given his presidency, during an interview by Larry King who asked "If one of your teen daughters comes to you pregnant, what would you do?" (This topic was abortion)

GWBush answer: "That is between me and my daughter" What?! WHAT! Oh, for everyone else, its NO ABORTION for you. For him, its only HIS business... to what, ship her off to Europe for a "vacation" which is what people with money did before abortion became legal.

Please provide the chart with actual data that SHOWS just how much the GOP has reduced the govt, the spending, the size, the debt. You can start from 1970, 1980. It should be easy.

Otherwise, just talking points from someone who decided how you should think.

There is NOTHING wrong with having an opinion, but its another when FOX/GOP pull crap out of their ass and say its a fact.


RE: I love the Viper...
By Belard on 2/21/2012 3:26:42 AM , Rating: 2
Loved The Right Stuff, even as a teen. great movie all around. And of course I have my DVD box set of Earth to the moon.

Check out the Anime Wings of Honneamise / Royal Space Force. Great anime of rockets and combat prop fighters. It takes place on another planet / time... so imagine WWII tech used for a space mission.

Should be on netflex of course... its from 1988, but still one of the best Japanese Animations ever. Excellent story / characters / art / concepts.


RE: I love the Viper...
By Jeffk464 on 2/16/2012 2:49:45 PM , Rating: 2
Empire of the Sun aka Japan

They were locked up in a japanese prisoner of war camp.


RE: I love the Viper...
By Reclaimer77 on 2/16/2012 3:05:31 PM , Rating: 2
I saw the movie ONCE when I was a little kid. Cut me some slack. The only thing I remembered were the P-51's lol.


RE: I love the Viper...
By MrBlastman on 2/16/2012 3:11:47 PM , Rating: 2
How about the Ki-84's? They were the highlight of the film for me when I watched it again 20 years later. :)


RE: I love the Viper...
By Jeffk464 on 2/16/2012 3:14:31 PM , Rating: 2
I don't remember the KI-84's I might have to watch it again to check them out. Were they real KI-84's or hollywood props? definitely an outstanding fighter.


RE: I love the Viper...
By bh192012 on 2/16/2012 4:02:41 PM , Rating: 2
What no Airwolf or Blue Thunder? I see how it is.


RE: I love the Viper...
By Reclaimer77 on 2/16/2012 4:09:19 PM , Rating: 2
lol Airwolf was a TV show! I loved it though. Blue Thunder was more of a cop movie...but yeah :D

You know us fighter jet guys! There's just something we don't trust about helicopters....


RE: I love the Viper...
By Brandon Hill (blog) on 2/16/2012 4:25:16 PM , Rating: 2
Stringfellow Hawk, wasn't that the dude's name?

How about Riptide? I vaguely remember there bring a helicopter with a mouth drawn on it on that show.


RE: I love the Viper...
By Belard on 2/21/2012 3:21:12 AM , Rating: 2
I recommend the movie, Red Tails - looks great. P51Ds in action - CGI of course.


RE: I love the Viper...
By MrBlastman on 2/16/2012 12:53:02 PM , Rating: 2
Dooods! No way. :)

I still to this day associate the Spencer Group's song, Gimme Some Lovin' with dropping bombs on targets. That whole scene in Iron Eagle where he pops the cassette in, flys over the airbase and bombs the crap out of them with MK-82's... Soooo classic!

Top Gun was euphoric to me when it came out and I even saw it twice or more in the theater. It redefined me forever after watching it and from that day on I wanted to fly jets and drop bombs on heads for a living. Unfortunately my health always prevented it but at least we have simulators to make up for it... sort of (but not really).

I grew up watching not only Top Gun, but all the Iron Eagles, Battle Star Galactica, Robotech Series (freakin' Veritechs FTW), the Last Starfighter, Star Wars, you name it. If it had fast jets/spacecraft, I was there.

You're sooo right. It is a darn shame we have no good aviation movies these days. People are so anti-military it is just "uncool" to make them.

I'd looove for a good, new jet jock film to come out--maybe someday.


RE: I love the Viper...
By Brandon Hill (blog) on 2/16/2012 1:02:53 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I still to this day associate the Spencer Group's song, Gimme Some Lovin' with dropping bombs on targets. That whole scene in Iron Eagle where he pops the cassette in, flys over the airbase and bombs the crap out of them with MK-82's... Soooo classic!


"I want these people..........De-STROYED"


RE: I love the Viper...
By Reclaimer77 on 2/16/2012 3:04:05 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Top Gun was euphoric to me when it came out and I even saw it twice or more in the theater. It redefined me forever after watching it and from that day on I wanted to fly jets and drop bombs on heads for a living. Unfortunately my health always prevented it but at least we have simulators to make up for it... sort of (but not really).


lol man, that parallels my life as well. Sadly my dreams of being "Maverick" were cut short by a reconstructed left knee.

quote:
I still to this day associate the Spencer Group's song, Gimme Some Lovin' with dropping bombs on targets. That whole scene in Iron Eagle where he pops the cassette in, flys over the airbase and bombs the crap out of them with MK-82's... Soooo classic!


hehe yeah, don't get me wrong. Nice classic movie. It's just when I went back and watched it as an adult recently, I noticed things like them replaying the same barrel roll clip about 10 times. And apparently the barrel roll is the ULTIMATE missile evasion technique lol.

quote:
You're sooo right. It is a darn shame we have no good aviation movies these days. People are so anti-military it is just "uncool" to make them.


Yeah we're just a more cynical bitter culture now. It's become so taboo to have any national pride or military pride without political messages beating you over the head.

quote:
I'd looove for a good, new jet jock film to come out--maybe someday.


Yeah but it would be obvious CGI and crappy. Like that Jamie Fox movie "Stealth" that came out a while back. Crapfest.

Ever watch the bonus features from Top Gun? Ironside was recalling that in the scene when Mav had to buzz the tower, all the actors were watching from a nearby window. When the Navy pilot crossed the tower, Ironside said his left wingtip couldn't have been more than 20 feet higher than they were. That's LOW and fast too. Not much margin for error.

Today filmakers just wouldn't take risks like that. It's all CGI, all fake looking. Boring.


RE: I love the Viper...
By Brandon Hill (blog) on 2/16/2012 3:40:12 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I noticed things like them replaying the same barrel roll clip about 10 times.


This just made my dad :)


RE: I love the Viper...
By Brandon Hill (blog) on 2/16/2012 3:40:32 PM , Rating: 2
^ day damnit, DAY!


RE: I love the Viper...
By blankslate on 2/17/2012 2:55:12 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Ironside was recalling that in the scene when Mav had to buzz the tower, all the actors were watching from a nearby window. When the Navy pilot crossed the tower, Ironside said his left wingtip couldn't have been more than 20 feet higher than they were. That's LOW and fast too. Not much margin for error.


http://aerofiles.com/f14flyby.jpg

Photo of Dale "Snort" Snodgrass having fun at a demonstration.

I read an interview with him in a fairly recent Aviation Weekly issue. If I recall correctly he even got thrown in the brig for one of his flying stunts. He's widely regarded as one of the best pilots ever of that particular aircraft.


RE: I love the Viper...
By blankslate on 2/17/2012 3:00:14 PM , Rating: 2
correction the title of the magazine is Aviation Week and Space technology. Derp.


RE: I love the Viper...
By erikstarcher on 2/16/2012 4:50:12 PM , Rating: 2
Nothing beats a Veritech when the going gets tough.


RE: I love the Viper...
By mrojasg on 2/16/2012 11:18:15 PM , Rating: 2
For all of you Veritech lovers... Robotech was made of 3 original Japanese series, the first one of them called Macross. Macross, in Japan, kept having regular releases, like:

Macross Plus : Centered around the rivalry between two pilots, former high school friends, called Isamu Alva Dyson and Guld Goa Bowman, over winning the project and funding for the Advanced Variable Fighter (AVF) Program, called Super Nova, for the next variable fighter of the UN Spacy. Their fighters are the YF-19 (developed by General Galaxy, with forward-swept wings, panoramic monitor cockpit, AI assisted, inspired in the Grumman X-29) and YF-21 (developed by General Galaxy, flexible wings, direct brain control and imaging of the fighter, inspired in the YF-23 of the ATF program), both also capable of trans-atmospheric flight, equipped with active stealth and comformal FAST packs, and hyperspace fold module.

YF-19: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNznMUry_Cc
YF-21: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6K1-iKCxuY

If you find the names familiar, it is because mecha director Shoji Kawamori visited Edwards Air Base for inspiration.

I think you can find the animation series in Amazon, look for Macross Plus.

Macross Zero: It is set in 2009, just before the original Macross-Robotech series, and features the VF-0, predecessor of the VF-1, and as such, still using some conventional techonology, like turbofan engines instead of thermonuclear turbines that allowed the VF-1 to be used in space. The VF-0 was manufactured by Northrop Grumman/Stonewell/Shinsei Industries, deployed by the United Nations and its enemy was the SV-51, manufactured by Sukhoi/Israel Aircraft Industries/Dornier, and deployed by Anti-United Nations forces:

VF-0: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXNa88lRh4E
VF-0 versus SV-51 (a bit spoilish, with both fully equipped fighters): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-8bDpW823o&feature...

And as a tease, the series begin with a dogfight between F-14s and MiG-29s: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJhI7oOwVLk

Macross Frontier: A series with a much more youngish argument, similar to the original one. Had damn good mechanics as well. The fighters in the series are the VF-25 and VF-27, and YF-29 in the movie. Also, a fast strike transformable cruiser.

VF-25 (basic unit, can be equipped with Super Pack, Armored Pack, Sniper Pack, Electronic Warfare Pack): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bb1w80cLt5g

I can't seeem to find a good clip of the VF-27, but you can see it briefly here... the red fighter: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UB5_nV6Fe40

For much more in depth information in the (fictional) mechanic world of Macross, check here: http://www.macross2.net/m3/m3.html


RE: I love the Viper...
By mrojasg on 2/16/2012 11:26:01 PM , Rating: 2
One more thing, if you don't care about spoilers

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hJepWBUqZk&feature...

It concerns the fate of one of the major characters in Macross Plus, but the animation and the confrontation is top notch (hint: it's a Variable Fighter against an UAV).


RE: I love the Viper...
By blankslate on 2/17/2012 2:46:48 PM , Rating: 2
A live action version of this anime would be awesome.

Although the cell shaded Mecha sequences of the latest shows are very good at approximating how a big budget movie would look like.


RE: I love the Viper...
RE: I love the Viper...
By wiz220 on 2/16/2012 4:57:35 PM , Rating: 2
You haven't heard?! Top Gun 2 is rattling around Hollywood in pre-production hell. Well, last I heard at least, which was almost a year ago.


RE: I love the Viper...
By Jeffk464 on 2/16/2012 2:44:42 PM , Rating: 2
There still making f16's, who knew.


WTF?
By FITCamaro on 2/16/2012 1:42:44 PM , Rating: 2
We're selling them to Iraq? Are they f*cking crazy? The country is already destabilizing. I can't imagine a bigger facepalm. Other than Obama getting a second term anyway.




RE: WTF?
By MrBlastman on 2/16/2012 2:14:30 PM , Rating: 2
Before last week I thought with great probability we were going to end up with him for another four years. After his little fiasco with violating the First Amendment, I think we might have a shot finally of dethroning him.


RE: WTF?
By AssBall on 2/16/2012 2:18:38 PM , Rating: 2
Our Government pretty much ignores the entire bill of rights these days. Hopefully I will die of renal failure before the apocalypse/revolution.


RE: WTF?
By Jeffk464 on 2/16/2012 2:46:02 PM , Rating: 2
Yup, I would sell them f16's but probably the older models without the newest electronics.


RE: WTF?
By dubldwn on 2/16/2012 3:40:41 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
We're selling them to Iraq? Are they f*cking crazy?

Hopefully we'll get more contracts. Others would be happy to sell them similar aircraft. What is it that you're worried about?


RE: WTF?
By corduroygt on 2/16/2012 9:28:23 PM , Rating: 2
The Russians/French/EADS will happily sell them their comparable aircraft if we don't. This is a good deal since it improves our economy and gives us some exports. The USAF is well equipped to shoot down F-16's with minimal/no losses if necessary. Don't forget that even the best plane is worthless without well-trained pilots as well.


RE: WTF?
By Ringold on 2/16/2012 10:41:37 PM , Rating: 2
In a first, we agree! We've got top-shelf equipment and operational abilities that will always make them look like kids playing an adults game. They're just useful against their neighbors is all.


RE: WTF?
By blankslate on 2/17/2012 1:56:19 PM , Rating: 2
We train the pilots of many countries we're selling planes to.

Don't discount Irsaeli pilots. Being surrounded by many hostile neighbors they have a keen interest in making sure the personnel that they keep in their military in all roles are top notch.


RE: WTF?
By FITCamaro on 2/17/2012 8:30:12 AM , Rating: 2
Who do you think is training their pilots?


Viper
By edge929 on 2/16/2012 11:10:15 AM , Rating: 2
The F-16 will go down as the USAF's workhorse for the second-half of the 20th century. Best at none, good at everything.




RE: Viper
By lagomorpha on 2/16/2012 1:23:53 PM , Rating: 3
The way the F35 is coming along the F16 may end up being remembered as the USAF workhorse for the second half of the 21st century.


RE: Viper
By AssBall on 2/16/2012 2:16:31 PM , Rating: 2
LOL!


RE: Viper
By Jeffk464 on 2/16/2012 3:37:17 PM , Rating: 2
yup, like the b52 still flying when all of its replacements are retired. Its actually happened a few times, the C130 is still going while the more modern c141 was retired.


RE: Viper
By fourdegrees11 on 2/16/2012 5:54:23 PM , Rating: 2
B1? B2?


RE: Viper
By Jeffk464 on 2/16/2012 9:59:16 PM , Rating: 2
Yup my understanding is both are planned to be retired before the b52.


RE: Viper
By TSS on 2/17/2012 7:30:13 AM , Rating: 2
Heh i was thinking about one politician here who said not too long ago to just scrap the JSF program and just get more F16's because they where "more then good enough for the tasks at hand". The age of the planes seems to be more an issue then the performance.

This news isn't going to help that debate i'm afraid...


RE: Viper
By lagomorpha on 2/19/2012 5:01:42 PM , Rating: 2
If the powers that be really cared more about cost effectiveness than politics, the F-20 Tigershark would have made even more sense.


Viper? Falcon?
By Brazos on 2/16/2012 11:50:14 AM , Rating: 2
Wasn't the F16 also called a Falcon? Did the name change along the way?




RE: Viper? Falcon?
By Brandon Hill (blog) on 2/16/2012 11:48:03 AM , Rating: 2
I think the official name is the Fighting Falcon, but pilots call it the Viper, hence Lockheed's homage to the pilots by naming this variant the F-16V


RE: Viper? Falcon?
By MrBlastman on 2/16/2012 1:07:49 PM , Rating: 2
It was originally called the Falcon but due to the shape of the plane, it has for decades been called the Viper in reference to the similarities of it and a viper snake along with the Battlestar Galactica starfighter, the Viper.

This announcement by Lockheed in a way is a small form of vindication with the V.


RE: Viper? Falcon?
By Jeffk464 on 2/16/2012 10:02:04 PM , Rating: 2
Not true its unofficial designation is lawn engine do to its single engine.


RE: Viper? Falcon?
By Jeffk464 on 2/16/2012 10:03:23 PM , Rating: 2
Oops
Designation is Lawn Dart


RE: Viper? Falcon?
By johnsonx on 2/19/2012 9:51:29 PM , Rating: 2
I thought the F-104 Starfighter was the Lawn Dart.


RE: Viper? Falcon?
By SoCalBoomer on 2/21/2012 12:45:35 PM , Rating: 2
Pilots call it the viper due to its shape - from the side, the nose tip being slightly higher and the bubble canopy gives it a snake-like profile so they call it the viper.
quote:
Although the F-16's official name is "Fighting Falcon", it is known to its pilots as the "Viper", due to a perceived resemblance to a viper snake
(wikipedia)


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