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Tokyo Game Show 2008: LittleBigPlanet Demo Booth

Tokyo Game Show 2008: LittleBigPlanet 80GB Japanese PS3 Bundle
Religious references unwelcome in new game

LittleBigPlanet’s release date in America has been delayed one week till October 27 due to references from the Muslim religious text the Qur’an found in the audio track. Similar delays are being implemented worldwide.

According to a Gamasutra article, the licensed LittleBigPlanet soundtrack song 'Tapha Niang' by Muslim artist Toumani Diabate's Symmetrical Orchestra uses voice excerpts from the Qur'an in its musical composition.

A now removed posting on the PlayStation Europe message boards stated, “We Muslims consider the mixing of music and words from our Holy Qur'an deeply offending. We hope you would remove that track from the game immediately via an online patch, and make sure that all future shipments of the game disk do not contain it."

Sony reacted quickly to the controversy announcing a delay in the release date. The Media Molecule developed PlayStation 3 exclusive had previously been planned for an October 21 release in North America, October 22 in PAL region territories, October 24 in the UK and Ireland, and October 30 in Japan and Asia.

Any obstacle to the successful release of LittleBigPlanet would be a serious problem for Sony as the game is anticipated to be a system seller. The platformer is a game that is largely dependent on community creations and sharing. Fans and press have given the game positive comments in early previews.

At the 2008 Tokyo Game Show it was announced LittleBigPlanet would be bundled with the new 80GB Japanese PS3 and released on October 30 for 44,980 yen ($442 USD). The bundle will also come with two DualShock 3 controllers.

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By shabby on 10/19/2008 11:32:40 AM , Rating: 5
The people who are offended by this need a swift kick in the nuts.




RE: ...
By AmazighQ on 10/19/08, Rating: -1
RE: ...
By Omega215D on 10/19/2008 11:54:35 AM , Rating: 3
The track was composed by a Muslim artist...


RE: ...
By Mk4ever on 10/19/2008 4:51:41 PM , Rating: 1
Dear friend,

Not every Muslim abides by Islamic rules; I guess the same goes for Christians and every other religion. In Islam, if music is not prohibited, it is usually frowned upon. Mixture of music and Quran is a No-No.

I am Muslim, though not too religious. but I know what's a small sin and what's a big one. this one falls under the later, cause from the Islamic view it shows disrespect to God's wholly words.

Just like everyone seek respect for what they believe in, we Muslims seek the same, especially if it's not causing you a major issue, like delaying a game for a week, especially that the game maker (Sony) is being considerate of Muslims' feelings and is delaying the game to make the needed modifications.

Also, usually people here ask about things they don't fully understand. Why is it different when it is related to Islam? Ask and you shall receive a clarification. No need to fire accusations and sometimes cheap shots. I hope you guys sit for a few moments in our chair and see how people accuse us of things without fully understanding our point of view. See how you might react or feel if you were in our place. Please, try!

finally,

Muslim Artist != Muslim Sheikh or Scientist


RE: ...
By GaryJohnson on 10/19/2008 5:37:29 PM , Rating: 4
quote:
I know what's a small sin and what's a big one. this one falls under the later

But it wasn't a sin committed by you; why are you trying to force your morality on other people?


RE: ...
By Mk4ever on 10/20/08, Rating: 0
RE: ...
By HavocX on 10/20/2008 5:59:20 AM , Rating: 4
"Guys, as I said before, I am not the perfect dedicated Muslim, but I noticed this, most of you show less tolerance when it comes to Islamic issues. Ever thought why? Please do."

If you look around a bit you will see it is quite the opposite. Christianity is openly ridiculed and opposed all the time in the west. Sure, some christians get very upset about it but most just accept it and get on with their lives. When it comes to Islam the slightest provocation becomes a big deal in no time.

Talking about music, there are big genres (most notably Black Metal) were one of the main features is anti-christianity.

That said, Sony is free to do wathever they want to with their own game.


RE: ...
By GaryJohnson on 10/20/2008 6:21:58 AM , Rating: 3
quote:
Some Muslims objected, Sony responded.

I'm not taking about 'some muslims', I'm talking about you. You condemned the use of the song, you said it was a 'big sin'.


RE: ...
By Mk4ever on 10/20/08, Rating: 0
RE: ...
By Eugenics on 10/20/2008 8:45:35 AM , Rating: 5
I was slightly offended when certain people had been dancing in the streets when planes crashed into the WTC. Please cut off their legs or destroy your roads in those countries so I am not offended.


RE: ...
By Mk4ever on 10/20/2008 3:40:58 PM , Rating: 2
I wasn't happy about celebrating the death of people in WTC.

But do you think the answer is you should be angry at all Muslims for what some did? or is it Islam to blame?

Out of all muslims in the world, how many did you see supporting what happened in 9/11? Don't you think they are a few and don't represent the whole group? Didn't you ever hear of minority groups in other religions doing terrible things?

Do I have to remind you of how many terrible events happened in this world under the name of religion, be that Christianity or Islam, among others?

Sir, religions are meant to behave people, give them values and an ideal behavior to follow, among other objectives. I believe being happy for other people's misery or death isn't one of them.

But your comment is so filled with mockery that I don't understand if you want to reach a point through discussion, or just bash my reply, regardless of if it was reasonable and logical, or not.

I believe most people here have higher than the average IQ. for that I urge you to pass through your anger and have a deep look into the truth. Islam isn't to blame, like some would want you to believe.


RE: ...
By stirfry213 on 10/20/2008 4:40:16 PM , Rating: 2
You are so brainwashed.

Religions' only purpose is control. Keep the masses sedated while they reside on this planet so absolute anarchy doesn't break out. Now mix in a healthy dose of corruption, and you have modern day society.

Bill Maher said it perfectly, religions must die for the human race to survive.


RE: ...
By Myg on 10/20/2008 11:16:36 AM , Rating: 2
Its nice to see someone who has a sense of Relgious reason on here.

The problem is; that you assume they are giving Islam "respect" for the right reasons, which could be a folly on your part.

The west is too used to trodding on Christianity and getting away with it, so when they face an ideaology which would cut the legs off before allowing anyone trodding on them: they probably only respond because of fear of reprisal.

If that be the reason; How do you feel about it?


RE: ...
By Mk4ever on 10/20/2008 4:34:05 PM , Rating: 2
Well I am not sure if this reflects respect to:
-Islam
-Muslims
-Muslims' feelings
-Customers

Honestly I hope it's all of the above.

But the complaint that some Muslims delivered to Sony is (in my opinion) as far as they should go.

Luckily, Sony responded.

Suppose it was intentional to mock Islam/Muslims, I guess a further step like protesting and/or boycotting is necessary to make them understand how we feel, and act on how we respect Islamic symbols, but definitely nothing beyond that.

If we don't try to change, then we didn't pay our Quran enough respect.

If we tried but no one responded, then at least we tried.

That's my understanding of Islam.


RE: ...
By robinthakur on 10/21/2008 9:52:00 AM , Rating: 4
quote:
Luckily, Sony responded.


Actually, we would like the game recalled again because it offends our religion of the Blessed Flying Spaghetti Monster by not featuring the Flying Spaghetti Monster or paying homage to him in the usual way. This is extremely disrespectful to our religion and is a mortal sin. For this reason as well as the fact that proponents of our religion are uneducated, overpopulated and haven't got anything better to do than pray, we will attack Japanese interests worldwide and burn PS3's in the street whilst decrying your western anti-Spaghetti-monster jibes. We might even kill a few people to make our point but umm its ok because the Flying Spagetthi Monster wills it and we have no sense of humour etc. We are reasonable people, don't offend us and we won't threaten to keeel you. </sarcasm>

See the problem here? The bottom line is that you respect your religion, those outside your religion do not have to respect it. Sony execs only show deferance to Islam in particular because they are afraid of being skewered to the pavement, decapitated on camera or flown into a building. That and they want your money.

I have a major problem with the censorship commonplace in Islamic states occuring more and more in the west because material might inflame or annoy Muslims. This is a free country with a free press and it should not be subject to threats of violence. If you don't like something, just boycott it. This decision to delay the game is offensive to a great many people, namely those to whom religion of any kind has zero impact.


RE: ...
By crleap on 10/19/2008 5:59:37 PM , Rating: 2
This is a well put post. Muslims are not alone in wishing their religious customs are respected, remember the "Golden Compass" movie that the Christians raised hell about? Or the Christians that are against Harry Potter? Or the outcry-turned-embracing of the Mel Gibson Passion movie?

Any religious theme in secular media will be either praised or opposed by the respective religious groups. In the end it is a commercial decision whether or not to adapt to meet the requests of these groups. In this case, Sony made an economic decision to not alienate the Muslim population, and has agreed to modify the content. In other cases, it may go the other way. I don't see any reason to lash out at Muslims or any other group when they voice a concern about something pertaining to their religion in popular media. Just like I don't see any reason to lash out if the publisher decides to abide by these wishes or ignore them. It's called freedom. They have the freedom to protest/boycott, we have the freedom to do as we wish as well. To be angry and lash out at Muslims for requesting this change is an attempt to deny them the same freedom you are exercising when you tell them to shut up and get over it.

Tolerance is a 2-way street. Personally I have no faith, but I respect the choice of those who have decided to live differently.


RE: ...
By HrilL on 10/19/2008 8:17:30 PM , Rating: 5
sorry to break the news to you and every other brain washed fool. The Qur'an and Bible both are books written by men. And as such they can't be the word of GOD or Allah. When will people finally learn that such books are merely a means to control the masses.


RE: ...
By FITCamaro on 10/19/2008 8:49:25 PM , Rating: 2
There is nothing wrong with people having faith.


RE: ...
By GaryJohnson on 10/19/2008 9:12:09 PM , Rating: 2
But there could be something wrong with someone having a certain faith in something.


RE: ...
By PhoenixKnight on 10/19/2008 11:26:56 PM , Rating: 3
While that is certainly true, you have to admit that problems can occur when people have a little too much faith and become zealous fanatics.


RE: ...
By robinthakur on 10/21/2008 11:07:11 AM , Rating: 2
The problem occurs when people put their religion as being the most important thing in their lives (pick a religion, it applies to them all) even before their family or their country. You cannot compromise with an inflexible person or group. You cannot reach a meeting point with people willing to kill themselves who believe that in so-doing they are committing the most blessed act. If you have a situation where these religious groups feel that the law of their country does not apply to them or who ignore it then you have big problems as we have seen over this decade.

Having said that, I have no problem WHATSOEVER with people having faith, as long as they keep it to themselves and don't tell other people how to behave. Mind you if they did that, then you wouldn't have organised religion, period, and the world would be a much better place.


RE: ...
By charlieee on 10/21/2008 10:57:01 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
The problem occurs when people put their religion as being the most important thing in their lives (pick a religion, it applies to them all) even before their family or their country.

Matthew 10:37
He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.

quote:
You cannot compromise with an inflexible person or group.

Doctrine & Covenants 1:31
…I the Lord cannot look upon sin with the least degree of allowance…

The faithful believe that at the end of their lives that the eternal judgements of God matter more than compromising with the morality of man.

quote:
Mind you if they did that, then you wouldn't have organised religion, period, and the world would be a much better place.

Yes, it would be a better place for demons. Have you not seen stories of faith turning people to good. I've seen a story of a woman turning away from drugs, and of violent gang members laying down strife due to belief in the Lord and correct moral principles.


RE: ...
By robinthakur on 10/22/2008 4:50:16 AM , Rating: 3
Well done, you've learned your lines very well. My point is not aimed at those that cannot think for themselves without resorting to your dellusional religious beliefs. Quoting an oft rewritten text only serves to reference where your particular dogma originates from, it does not justify it.

Demons? I have seen plenty of anecdotal evidence of the weak-willed turning to religion and being cured of their ills, be it drug addiction or whatever. They do not justify the presence of religion as, a lot of the time, it just needed somebody to reach out to them and offer them help or a chance to change. The "correct moral principles" you and your handbook preach are homophobic and outdated and have no place in a modern society.

I find it seriously disturbing that in the 21st century, we still have people mentioning 'demons' etc. truly religion is holding you back. Whilst you are free to say what you want in defense of your religion, don't be surprised if people think you're nuts when you say things like that. I'm pleased to say that more and more people are turning away from organised religion and are having faith in their own way without inflicting it on others.


RE: ...
By robinthakur on 10/22/2008 4:50:21 AM , Rating: 2
Well done, you've learned your lines very well. My point is not aimed at those that cannot think for themselves without resorting to your dellusional religious beliefs. Quoting an oft rewritten text only serves to reference where your particular dogma originates from, it does not justify it.

Demons? I have seen plenty of anecdotal evidence of the weak-willed turning to religion and being cured of their ills, be it drug addiction or whatever. They do not justify the presence of religion as, a lot of the time, it just needed somebody to reach out to them and offer them help or a chance to change. The "correct moral principles" you and your handbook preach are homophobic and outdated and have no place in a modern society.

I find it seriously disturbing that in the 21st century, we still have people mentioning 'demons' etc. truly religion is holding you back. Whilst you are free to say what you want in defense of your religion, don't be surprised if people think you're nuts when you say things like that. I'm pleased to say that more and more people are turning away from organised religion and are having faith in their own way without inflicting it on others.


RE: ...
By charlieee on 10/23/2008 6:51:36 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
Demons?

In your post you referred to spirits deprived of bodies. But by demons I meant those who fight or oppose, verbally or physically against those who believe in god (persecute) and hate them. And by demons I mean those who are pleased to see people turning away from their belief in god towards lawlessness.

And by demons I mean those who say people stating their beliefs are "inflicting" it upon others.

Jeremiah 23:38-40 (burden/inflicting)
38 But since ye say, The burden of the Lord; therefore thus saith the Lord; Because ye say this word, The burden of the Lord, and I have sent unto you, saying, Ye shall not say, The burden of the Lord;
39 Therefore, behold, I, even I, will utterly forget you, and I will forsake you, and the city that I gave you and your fathers, and cast you out of my presence:
40 And I will bring an everlasting reproach[curse] upon you, and a perpetual shame, which shall not be forgotten.


RE: ...
By hadifa on 10/19/2008 9:18:09 PM , Rating: 2
That is your belief I suppose!

I wonder if you have asked about why people for example believe in Bible or Quran to be God's words or and have not received an acceptable answer. If not, then you are rushing to conclusion.

So I ask, do you have a reason to believe that each of these books is word of ordinary people and not God AND that these books are actually devised to control the masses.

Now I'm not advocating the need for researching any seemingly crazy or improbable idea coming from just any one, but if the idea is widely believed or the person or group introducing the idea has some credit, it should at least give us a pause before dismissing that concept.

My 2 cents anyway.


RE: ...
By Visual on 10/20/2008 11:42:08 AM , Rating: 2
If you ever cared to learn some history, you'd know how emperor Constantine ordered the assembling of the Bible precisely with the purpose of being in control of the arising Christianity. It was he and his advisers that decided what goes in and what is rejected. He practically coined the religion out of the bunch of superstitions that were popular at the time in such a manner that it is acceptable to him, then handed it out to the Church and forced them to accept it in exchange of the end of Christian persecution. It was meant as a means to control his people without force.


RE: ...
By hadifa on 10/20/2008 6:30:21 PM , Rating: 2
I do know that religious or the holy books can be and are used as a mean to control the masses. What you mentioned is a sample (a drop in the ocean) and there are many other examples, small or big, like this in the history. I was just arguing if the original texts were devised as a mean to control masses.

It's like saying PCs were created as a mean for downloading songs from the net! Pcs are used for that quite a lot but it doesn't make the original purpose to be downloading songs.


RE: ...
By tastyratz on 10/20/2008 12:13:50 PM , Rating: 2
This really wasn't some act of censorship. Nobody fought the games release, nobody took any kind of legal action. Some had mentioned they find it offensive and Sony did what they did out of respect. I am usually against many forms of censorship in many other instances... but this one I have no qualms with. The game will not suffer for it, there is no oppression taking place. Nobody is standing outside of a store throwing red paint on anyone or shooting anyone to make demands.

My personal belief is that religion was established as a crude form of government before practical implementations had any stability. It was an easy way to latch onto the unexplained as gods work before science was matured. It also comforts people in death as well as their fears so its a great way to have people dedicated to a form of government.
I have a hard time believing anything written many generations before I was born that holds no real proof. Religions are based on faith because no evidence exists. To say any god requires you have faith is a hard sell unless its a sadistic deity that's just playing games with us.

What I believe has just as much physical evidence as any old book for any religion. I could come up with as much evidence to discredit each existing religion as they can come up with their own to discredit my opinion.

But freedom to speak this gives me a right to my belief just as anyone else. Everyone is free to believe what makes the most sense to them.


RE: ...
By Myg on 10/20/2008 11:22:13 AM , Rating: 2
Of course, and thats why only the Bible could be correct! :-)

Jesus actually never wrote anything because he knew of this human problem. The only thing he ever scribbled was on the sand when he challenged the men who wanted to stone the women adulterer to death.

Very smart; Lead by example, not by what you've written. To sit down and ponder on "words of God" will always carry the cost of human frailty.


RE: ...
By Mk4ever on 10/20/2008 4:14:42 PM , Rating: 2
Sorry to break the news to you but you have no right whatsoever to call us fools or brainwashed.

You have the right to disagree that it is not God's words, but nothing beyond that.

And life taught me that whenever someone looses control and start cursing and calling names, he ran out of logic.

Be civil and discuss politely, or shut up.


RE: ...
By robinthakur on 10/21/2008 10:13:45 AM , Rating: 2
Actually he does have the right. Its called the right to free speech, something many Muslims are obviously unaccustomed to. Not everyone even believes in a God, so stop forcing your religious beliefs on other people. To those of us not afflicted by religion it certainly seems like you are brainwashed fools, otherwise what's with all the suicide bombings?


RE: ...
By robinthakur on 10/21/2008 10:01:37 AM , Rating: 2
Err no I'm afraid you're wrong, they were ghost-written by man, but the events depicted in the Bible and the Quran are based on real events and God and Allah told them what to write. Really. Then every few centuries God came out with newer drafts which conveniently ommitted some previous parts or reinterpretted them to suit the politics of the time. He (or she) likes to see it as a work in progress, apparently...


RE: ...
By Some1ne on 10/19/2008 11:23:12 PM , Rating: 3
quote:
but I know what's a small sin and what's a big one. this one falls under the later


So then don't commit the sin yourself. Isn't it enough that the people responsible for disrespecting God's holy words will be punished for their sin by God himself in the end? Why is it necessary to go after them and their work? If your religious views prove true, and these people have indeed committed a a serious sin, then they'll pay for it in due time. Why shouldn't that be enough by itself?

I'm all for tolerance, and respect for people's beliefs. But respect for people's beliefs is not the same thing as allowing them to arbitrarily censor the work of others whenever they decide that something is offensive to them. The people who produced the song and included it in the game broke no laws in their respective countries, and as such, nobody has any right to demand that they remove it.

Respect goes both ways, and to have any realistic expectation that people will respect your beliefs, you need to show respect for them, their beliefs, and their basic rights such as free expression, even when that expression is offensive to you.


RE: ...
By KashGarinn on 10/20/2008 4:38:23 AM , Rating: 3
Exactly, His Noodly appendage from the great Pasta in the sky condemns, CONDEMNS I SAY that his recipes will be conjoined with music.

May Gods noodly appendage touch your lives without silliness of in-game music.


RE: ...
By Ammohunt on 10/20/2008 2:00:53 PM , Rating: 2
Because most offenses to Islam directly contradict freedom of expression/speech that exist in western civilization with censorship or beheading oven being the result of such offenses (Danish Cartoonist ring a bell). Islam needs to be reminded that this is not 6th century AD!


RE: ...
By guidoq on 10/19/2008 11:59:17 AM , Rating: 3
So... don't buy the game.


RE: ...
By djkrypplephite on 10/19/2008 12:08:44 PM , Rating: 5
Terrible grammar: Just terrible.

Maybe you should consider that words are not containers of meaning. Meaning originates within your mind. They're just words until you decide they mean something. The words themselves mean nothing. I, for one, am offended at the censorship of free speech. People say terrible things about Jesus everyday, but because he's more mainstream, that's acceptable. But nobody can say anything about Allah or Mohammed just because you cry most vocally about it.

People are going to say things you don't like. Get over it. Not everyone in the world is a big sissy like the UN passing "anti-religious hate speech" bills, trying to censor anything bad anyone says about Islam.

YOU are the narrow-minded one, trying to censor opposition to your feelings so that people may only be allowed to hear your side.

They didn't even put explosion sounds in with the track. Get over it.


RE: ...
By plonk420 on 10/19/2008 7:48:33 PM , Rating: 4
i just saw an awesome quote... "Being a grammar Nazi is a sign you do not poses the intelligence to contribute to the conversation"


RE: ...
By overzealot on 10/20/2008 5:37:16 AM , Rating: 1
Plonk: Google Godwin's law.
You just lost the game.


RE: ...
By Master Kenobi (blog) on 10/19/2008 12:09:37 PM , Rating: 5
I have to agree. Everyone will be offended by anything. It's high time we told them that enough is enough. If we want to release it that way, we will. Your within your right to boycott, protest, or whine like little children all you want, but we are also within our right to buy what we want with the content we want.

Your offended by it? Who cares, move on. I find some in the Muslim community are offended by quite a lot and never seem to be able to turn the other cheek or suck it up and live with it. The world does not revolve around you, the world does its own thing, its your job to live in it and play nicely with everyone else.

Your explanation about words losing their meaning is also lousy at best. While I'm sure on some level you might believe that, the reality is that anyone who has the faith in that book won't see them as ordinary words, they will continue to believe it, and new people each year will come to believe it too. This is nothing but a half-baked outrage it seems like in this case merely to get outraged over something.


RE: ...
By Myg on 10/19/08, Rating: -1
RE: ...
By HrilL on 10/19/2008 1:09:57 PM , Rating: 5
I'm sorry but no one insulted Islam at all. Get a F***ing backbone. And for real this is completely uncalled for. Like others have said If you don't like it then don't buy it no one is forcing you to play this game.

Looking at it from Sony's point of view though. Its as simple as sales. They could care less about these peoples feelings but when it comes down to losing sales because of it they'll do what ever it will take to keep sales up.


RE: ...
By DigitalFreak on 10/19/2008 2:06:09 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
You insult anything to do with Islam and the only turning of cheek will be because of the force of their boot in your face.


I've got a cheek that you can kiss...


RE: ...
By wantonblue on 10/19/2008 9:45:11 PM , Rating: 2
Aren't non-islam believers not allowed to touch the Quran?
How would you suggest anyone non-islam to learn about your faith then? The second a non-islam believer tries a creative way to teach people about the religion they get a death threat.

quote:
You insult anything to do with Islam and the only turning of cheek will be because of the force of their boot in your face


you could not be more correct. Remember that cartoon controversy? Where Islam believers bombed the Danish embassy? And several Arab states boycotted Danish products?


RE: ...
By cochy on 10/19/2008 3:02:06 PM , Rating: 2
Isn't there also something to be said about being respectful to other people's cultures no matter how odd it may seem to you?

Taking the mind set of "I'll do what I want, it shouldn't bother you" attitude may seem totally logical to you, but you're only taking your point of view into consideration and that is the wrong approach, considering the vast array of points of view we have in this world.

At the same time, if the other point of view is making their own demands that something be changed, well that is not right either.

There should be discussion from both points of view so that people can come to mutual understandings.


RE: ...
By FITCamaro on 10/19/2008 8:54:34 PM , Rating: 5
Please tell me how a MUSLIM composer singing a song with some verses from the book he believes in is not being respectful?

And just because you're making fun of something doesn't mean you're trying to disrespect it. Why should the Muslim religion be completely off limits when no other religion is?

Answer: Muslims riot and blow shit up when they get mad.

Call it profiling all you like but its true. It's the only reason why they get a pass. They use fear to attack anyone talking about their religion in a way they don't approve.


RE: ...
By Neutrion on 10/20/2008 1:08:29 AM , Rating: 4
Had to make an account just for this:

http://www.thelostnews.com/world/2007/4/15/cry-bab...


RE: ...
By cochy on 10/20/2008 2:01:48 AM , Rating: 2
I'm just trying to make the point that people are very quick to jump up and judge others. I'm also not saying that one religion is off limits. I'm just saying that it's better policy to understand other points of view before judging or taking action. I'm sure if only a few people got offended by this, Sony wouldn't have delayed the game. Quite possibly a large number of people are offended. Sony understood their point of view and decided to modify things. This seemed to be handled pretty well, there's no need to people to judge these Muslims as cry babies or what have you.


RE: ...
By robinthakur on 10/21/2008 11:18:36 AM , Rating: 2
Or quite possibly Sony are sh*t scared of their headquarters being blown up and their executives being skewered to the pavement like that director Theo van Gough from the Netherlands. While you western apologists reason and debate, democracy and freedom of speech weeps. I actually consider self-censorship to be just as bad in this respect. This is not the 8th Century AD, and people these days are unaccustomed to being pilloried for setting words (any words) to music or not being allowed to draw whatever they want. I'm not alone. My teddy-bear Mohammed agrees with me.


RE: ...
By Bigjee on 10/19/2008 3:10:47 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Your offended by it? Who cares, move on. I find some in the Muslim community are offended by quite a lot and never seem to be able to turn the other cheek or suck it up and live with it. The world does not revolve around you, the world does its own thing, its your job to live in it and play nicely with everyone else. Your explanation about words losing their meaning is also lousy at best. While I'm sure on some level you might believe that, the reality is that anyone who has the faith in that book won't see them as ordinary words, they will continue to believe it, and new people each year will come to believe it too. This is nothing but a half-baked outrage it seems like in this case merely to get outraged over something.


Remember Resistance:FOM with the Church escapade? Did you think it was made into such a big deal? I'd say I would have been very angry if that was a Church I go to. Religious freedom is religious freedom. While some are not very religious there is still must be respect for other people religion. Religious beliefs should not mean that it's going against your "job" of having to play nice with everyone else. If you always play nice with everyone cos u HAVE to and that it's not a matter of choice then I'm sorry but you're a a sad person. I live and let live. There is no "job" involved in the way I live.
Also, people convert to and from religions ; to think that there is an equilibrium in the number of people that convert or revert to a particular religion is wrong. This is not a case of "something".


RE: ...
By mmntech on 10/19/2008 4:07:41 PM , Rating: 2
This comment definitely deserves a 6 oh wise Jedi Master. However, the problem is that there is a big disparity between how society should function and how it does. We live in a litigatious society and it's vary likely some shyster Human Rights lawyer would sue on behalf of his "much distressed" client, call the game racist, and reap a huge pay day. I can't say I approve of Sony delaying the game since it is censorship, but I do understand how the company's lawyers would want Sony to cover its butt.

I have not heard the track but I'm willing to be it's someone just hearing things that aren't there. Most disturbing is that in our supposedly secular and democratic society, it only takes one zealot to complain and they always get their way.


RE: ...
By lifeblood on 10/20/2008 10:50:22 AM , Rating: 1
You don't listen to music much, do you? Words set to music acquire far deeper meaning then the words alone. The music is able to evoke emotions that words alone cannot.


RE: ...
By ggordonliddy on 10/20/2008 7:36:08 PM , Rating: 1
> please be considered

What the hell does that mean?

And yes, I know what you mean, but learn basic English or smother yourself.


RE: ...
By BruceLeet on 10/19/2008 12:15:53 PM , Rating: 1
The people offended by this are Muslims faithful to their religion they dont want it being altered or, mixed in with something modern as it is deemed offensive to something they consider "holy".

It would be like changing original words in the constitutional amendments for those of you who cannot grasp the concept.

;)


RE: ...
By Omega215D on 10/19/2008 12:30:03 PM , Rating: 4
Umm, the words are still the same just added into music which I will say again made by a muslim artist. Besides, they are just words it's living by them is what counts.

Muslims themselves alter the meaning of the Qur'an in which we have the radicals and the normally peaceful.


RE: ...
By CvP on 10/19/2008 12:52:56 PM , Rating: 2
Muslims themselves alter the meaning of the Qur'an

wth??!!


RE: ...
By spuddyt on 10/19/2008 1:10:02 PM , Rating: 2
he's saying that any words are open to interpretation, particularly those which are in religous texts, which frequently contradict themselves in a pure, literal sense. Therefore it is absolutely necessary to interpret what is written to your own ends if you are a radical extremist, because "do not murder" is a pretty clear indicator of you shouldn't kill (particularly terrorist style suicide bombings against non military targets).


RE: ...
By Myg on 10/19/2008 1:10:05 PM , Rating: 2
He means that, just like the idea of the "Bible only" way of beleif; you can take words out of context for your purposes if your intentions desire it. Since there is no unity, nor central authority to either of these ways ("Bible only"/Qur'an) they have no-one to align themselves to or answer to. Unfortunatly its just the nature of the beast; so to say.

To put this into perspective, there are around 25,000+ different "churches" in the USA alone who would possibly have a different meaning to each passage in the bible to suit their own desires at any given moment. This probably occurs in an even larger scale in the middle east for the Qur'an (possibly 100 fold).

So, I suppose; based off this issue, the Qur'an could change from day to day and neighbourhood to neighbourhood at a whim.


RE: ...
By Omega215D on 10/19/2008 1:48:34 PM , Rating: 2
Umm, to those ignorant enough to mod me down I would like to point out that I have a friend who is Muslim and he goes on to say that the terrorists distort the meaning of the passages (I shoulda put that in my post) in the Qur'an. Something about not meant to teach violence but as a way to be a better person through faith... its been a while since I've seen him.


RE: ...
By Xerstead on 10/21/2008 4:33:07 PM , Rating: 2
You just reinforce the point. Different people infer a different meaning to the same passages. It is written for us to read and we will each take our own meaning from it.
You say, and I hope that it is the fanatics who have mis-interpreted the text. But it could also be that the rest of the believers, being nice people, are more likely to interpret the text in a nicer way. Any person's (or group) opinion on the validity of anothers understanding is only their opinion and, as it can not be proven, is no more valid than the others belief.


RE: ...
By Bigjee on 10/19/2008 2:57:55 PM , Rating: 2
i believe what he's trying to say is that from one laguage to another; the exact nuance of the word may change.
E.g :

"It was night" might get translated to "it was dark" but other than that the original script is unchanged, since that start of Islam in Arabia in the 7th Century.


RE: ...
By TheHarvester on 10/19/2008 12:45:48 PM , Rating: 3
If this delay were the reaction to a few people being offended, then I agree with the assessment that this is a stupid delay. My guess is the real reason Sony thought they should delay this is money. If there is an outcry (as previous posters said, "don't buy the game if you don't like it") in the Muslim world, releasing the game as is could cost Sony millions of dollars from some of the 1.2 billion Muslims in the world. Believe it or not, I'll bet a bunch of those Muslims have a decent amount of purchasing power.


RE: ...
By DigitalFreak on 10/19/2008 2:08:45 PM , Rating: 3
I figured they'd be more interested in buying bomb parts than video games, but whatever.


RE: ...
By Mk4ever on 10/19/2008 4:11:40 PM , Rating: 5
To tell the truth, as a muslim, I find your comment disappointing, even if you were kidding or if it was just sarcasm.

I might expect (though not agree with) such comment from people unwilling to discuss their ideas and open up to others, but people in this particular website are the ones discussing critical and sensitive issues with understanding and more consideration of the opposites' views.

Why would you hint that all muslims are extremists is beyond me, especially if you believe it isn't true. If you believe in what you said, I have no idea what to tell you.

I hope you'll be more considerate before you say such things. If not for anything else; just picture yourself as an ordinary muslim and see if you can tolerate such comments.


RE: ...
By DKWinsor on 10/19/2008 6:10:55 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Why would you hint that all muslims are extremists


He would say that because the Qur'an says that.

"When you meet the unbelievers, strike off their heads; then when you have made wide slaughter among them, carefully tie up the remaining captives." Surat Mohammed:4

I also like this verse:
4:34 . . . If you fear highhandedness from your wives, remind them [of the teaching of God], then ignore them when you go to bed, then hit them. If they obey you, you have no right to act against them. God is most high and great.

I like this verse because you can't interpret it away. Domestic violence is enshrined in your eternal word from Allah


RE: ...
By hadifa on 10/19/2008 9:53:33 PM , Rating: 1
Translating Quran is considered impossible as no translation can deliver the meaning and the depth (not even considering the rhythm and beauty) of the original. That said, please use a proper translation and never quote partially.

Here are the translation of the same verses you mentioned.

"Now when ye meet in battle those who disbelieve, then it is smiting of the necks until, when ye have routed them, then making fast of bonds; and afterward either grace or ransom till the war lay down its burdens. That (is the ordinance). And if Allah willed He could have punished them (without you) but (thus it is ordained) that He may try some of you by means of others. And those who are slain in the way of Allah, He rendereth not their actions vain. (4)" (47:4)

The word battlefield is not in the text explicitly and not as a separate word but the context is clear. I checked multiple translations and all had the battlefield word in them. So This is talking about meeting in the battlefield not in a restaurant!

As for the second one:
"Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allâh has made one of them to excel the other, and because they spend (to support them) from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient (to Allâh and to their husbands), and guard in the husband's absence what Allâh orders them to guard (e.g. their chastity, their husband's property). As to those women on whose part you see ill¬conduct, admonish them (first), (next), refuse to share their beds, (and last) beat them (lightly, if it is useful), but if they return to obedience, seek not against them means (of annoyance). Surely, Allâh is Ever Most High, Most Great." (4:34)

"Men are the protectors and maintainers of women" I have seen this as being translated as "Men are in charge of women".

As for the beating part, It's where the translator put the (lightly...), I know that the beating should not be done by a stick larger than a tooth brush for what ever that implies.

BTW, They had tooth brushes made of a certain wood then similar in size to a modern tooth brush and they were advised by the prophet to use it regularly!


RE: ...
By MrBungle123 on 10/20/2008 11:19:07 AM , Rating: 2
quote:
"Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allâh has made one of them to excel the other, and because they spend (to support them) from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient (to Allâh and to their husbands), and guard in the husband's absence what Allâh orders them to guard (e.g. their chastity, their husband's property). As to those women on whose part you see ill¬conduct, admonish them (first), (next), refuse to share their beds, (and last) beat them (lightly, if it is useful), but if they return to obedience, seek not against them means (of annoyance). Surely, Allâh is Ever Most High, Most Great." (4:34)

"Men are the protectors and maintainers of women" I have seen this as being translated as "Men are in charge of women".

As for the beating part, It's where the translator put the (lightly...), I know that the beating should not be done by a stick larger than a tooth brush for what ever that implies.


Im sorry but men and women should be equals. Women are not property they are people. A man "beating" a woman (however you decide to translate that) for the reason of disobedience is something that should be looked down upon. Just because men are typically physically larger and stronger than women does not give them the right to hit, dominate, or control women through intimidation. That is a childish solution to a grown up problem and only serves to confirm my prior suspicions; that the quran is a book laden with ideas and soluions right out of barbaric and backward era that we would all be better off putting behind us.

Any time when a "man" has beaten a woman the "man" deserves to have his ass kicked.


RE: ...
By Xerstead on 10/21/2008 4:51:22 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Im sorry but men and women should be equals. Women are not property

I do agree with you, but it is just our (and many others) opinion and belief.
People are allowed to dissagree with us and hold their own belief. But we look down on, and have laws to punish, those who act on them. Each culture has its own values and laws reflecting those values.
If something upsets them the some people complain, others sue and others blow stuff up. We just consider ourselves more civilised.


RE: ...
By andylawcc on 10/19/2008 7:22:37 PM , Rating: 2
not very tolerant of others aren't ya? same goes with the one who gave this a 5.


RE: ...
By Moishe on 10/19/2008 10:02:42 PM , Rating: 2
What I find interesting is this.

If Christians/Buddhists/<insert religion of choice> said the same thing... Most people would laugh them out of the room.

However, I agree about the swift kick in the nuts for any religion/people that can't take criticism.


By ImJustSaying on 10/19/2008 3:30:41 PM , Rating: 2
I really don't have a problem with Sony making this decision, for the reason that others have stated: this is a matter of sales numbers. It's unfortunate to see corporations censor themselves like this, but being private entities, that is their decision to make.

I'm not a fan of censorship, or organized religion for that matter, but it would be nice for those (Muslims) critical of the words in the game's song, originated by a Muslim artist no less, to acknowledge these sorts of issues as being 'symptoms' of a secular society, which aims to allow them to freely practice their religion(s) in the first place.

I see this less as a Christian vs Muslim issue, which some have framed it to be in their postings, and more a freedom of speech issue, which ultimately effects us all, religious and otherwise.




By FITCamaro on 10/19/2008 6:10:29 PM , Rating: 1
Please. How many Muslims that would have a problem with this are actually going to buy this game? My guess. Very few.


By michal1980 on 10/20/2008 8:22:33 AM , Rating: 2
the non-buyers would just protest and threaten to behead people, just like they did over a comic.

anyone being blind to the amount of hate and violence that is currently part of the religon, I feel truely sorry for. Because its as obivous as the sun rising on the east.


By FITCamaro on 10/20/2008 10:53:27 AM , Rating: 4
So we're supposed to give in to the fear they try and create? How about we stand up against it and tell them enough is enough. If they have a problem with the way the rest of the world is, they can go back to their deserts in live in solitude.


By robinthakur on 10/21/2008 10:35:30 AM , Rating: 2
Erm, yes. The problem is that Tokyo and Sony HQ in particular is much nearer to the Middle East than you are :) There's enough perverts on the Japanese metro without having to worry about Mohammed Mohammed and his suspiciously bulging backpack with the wires coming out of it.

Its amazing how open people are to listening to you once you knock down two massive skyscrapers using passenger aircraft...Somehow I think appeasement at this point is sending the wrong message.


By ImJustSaying on 10/21/2008 11:20:32 AM , Rating: 2
Seriously? You're telling me that the people who have objected to the music in this video game are terrorists? And that we're 'appeasing' them? (Even though it is Sony who is 'appeasing' them, if you want to put it that way).

You speak as if Sony's HQ would be under imminent attack if they had refused to take the song out of the game. How do you know this? I can only assume that you are involved in whatever plot you think is being hatched, since you seem to know what is going to happen.

Equating Muslims to terrorists because of 9/11 is like equating Christians to terrorists because of the Oklahoma City bombing of the IRS building in 95 (McVeigh and his cohorts were devout Christian separatists). You and I know that Christians are not terrorists because of that, and you should have the wits to know that the same applies to Muslims.

This goes for everyone who has equated Muslims with terrorists. It is disgraceful, ignorant, and bigoted to hold that perspective. It's also indicative of what the US government and media have done through a consistent campaign of subtle and overt propaganda to negatively sway your outlook toward an entire religion. Use your ability to reason and break out of your box.


By robinthakur on 10/21/2008 12:42:04 PM , Rating: 3
No. Sony *is* appeasing the Muslim population (including the crazies and the sane, as well as the easily influenced) of the world by voluntarily recalling this game.

If they didn't do that then we don't know what would have happened at this point (it hasn't happened yet). However, nobody would have predicted that cartoons or teddy bears would cause so much outrage, violence and international debate prior to it happening, so their prudence at this time does not surprise me. Would you risk offending such a volatile religious group which has threatened and exacted violence in the past?

Oh and yes, the sort of Muslims who would object to verses from the Quran being used in the context of videogame background music are the types that would cause trouble, because they have no sense of perspective. A moderate muslim would most likely not have a problem with it and wonder what all the fuss was about. The types that demand extreme sensitivity to a particular group's concerns are intellectual terrorists, attempting to regulate what you can think. Regardless of the seriousness of the perceived slight or blasphemy, these things can quickly escalate as we have seen, in places like Indonesia, Pakistan etc. They are unfortunately the mouthy minority who spoil it for the rest of us, the majority of which are not muslim and actually would quite like to play the game.

You are mistaken if you think that I equate all muslims to terrorists. By that same token, all the attacks mentioned were carried out by Muslims and you'd be seriously mistaken if you didn't think there was a problem there. Sony clearly agree as well as numerous publishing houses in the UK and US who have unusually, pulled the release of books recently out of fear of offending muslim sensibilities. The situation in Oklahoma is not the same because religion was not used as a justification for the attack, only a grudge against the government.

I'm not actually a right wing hawk from the US, I'm a liberal from the UK, and oppose censorship, I'm also quite able to make my own mind up rather than be fed a stream of invective from your US administration (or indeed you) and have travelled widely in the middle east. Rather than your predictable preaching of dubious rationalisation and multiculturalism, you should look at the situation as it actually exists, not as you might wish it to. The "Can't we all just get along?" message is highly irrelevant when the other party concerned by the "we" wants to live under Sharia law, where insults against the profit and the Quran are illegal and women and gay people are equated to second class citizens and lower-than-dogs, respectively. The biggest enemies of Islam are radical Islamic fascists and terrorists, not the US, the UK or indeed me.


Damn radicals
By elT on 10/19/2008 3:50:44 PM , Rating: 4
First of all, I'm a muslim myself.

Second, I can't help but respond to the this article because the comments to it have some prime examples of stupidity and arrogance of radicals on both the "theist" side and "science" side. And it took some time to figure out how fake these people are, on both sides. And short after the conclusion I stumbled upon the quote from Albert Einstein himself: "Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind.". So true.

And third, people should spend less time determing what Qur'an is ment for, whome it's ment for and how it should be listened but spend more time actually reading it for themselfs, thinking with their own God given brain for themselfs, seek answers trough practice and do what is said to be done in Qur'an and Torah and Bible. Stop spreading the damn dogma all around. Music, painting, drawing, science, family, children, knowledge all of it comes from God and are gifts from Him. And all of them work together. Embrace them, develop them, work on it, spend more time feeding people in need and less time judging them. Teach and learn don't just be a repeater of opinions you heard from someone else. Do good and look to inspired good. Leave the judging to God. Seek balance and not the way to tilt it in your favor.

I am sure that hearing God's words be it trough music or the laws of physics can not be a sin or an insult. It's what you make of it. And if you use it to make people illiterate with it, than it's a sin.... if you use it to make an atomic bomb and kill people, it's a sin. On it's own, God's word is a gift. It's what you do with it. YOU, not anybody else. You here, now, what have you done to practice what you preach? Ask yourself that and answer to yourself and .. worry about your own sins, not the sins of others, damn it!

Peace

P.S. I'd buy this game(if it's any good that is; I know little of it). And I'd be very happy to play it and hear the music and the verses from the holy Qur'an.




RE: Damn radicals
By elT on 10/19/2008 4:01:43 PM , Rating: 2
And I've just listened to the song on myspace. I love it!!!


RE: Damn radicals
By FITCamaro on 10/19/2008 6:08:18 PM , Rating: 2
Glad to see the voice of reason coming from the other side.


RE: Damn radicals
By Myg on 10/20/2008 11:33:24 AM , Rating: 2
What are the chances if he said that openly in an Islamic state that he would be publically flogged?


RE: Damn radicals
By elT on 10/21/2008 6:06:25 PM , Rating: 1
Just the same as you not being as narrow minded as any other brainwashed repeater. And I say that with all due respect.

And while I'm at it, reading most of the comments, i'm terrible disappointed to see how ironically uninformed "information technology" people are.

Same shit, different package all around the world I guess.


RE: Damn radicals
By hadifa on 10/19/2008 9:59:56 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
Teach and learn don't just be a repeater of opinions you heard from someone else.


Amen to that.

(OOPS.. , I just repeated his post! ;-)


RE: Damn radicals
By robinthakur on 10/21/2008 10:21:09 AM , Rating: 2
I completely agree. Chucking out literal translations of religious texts to religious firebrands and ordinary folk alike is a very bad move. Now go book a flight to Saudi Arabia and repeat it over there in public with your fellow muslims at least 5 times a day. If you haven't been imprisoned/shot/beheaded by day 5 I would be suprised...


pleased to appease
By JonFoo on 10/19/2008 9:28:37 PM , Rating: 3
What BS, if someone insults my religion I just ignore it. If a video game uses Gods name in vain im not going to play it. This is just another example of appeasing the Muslims and we all know were that road leads...




RE: pleased to appease
By ImJustSaying on 10/19/2008 11:17:09 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
This is just another example of appeasing the Muslims and we all know were that road leads...


And where does that lead?

Please don't give me some bullshit bigoted response that it "leads to terrorism." Anything but that.


RE: pleased to appease
By Myg on 10/20/2008 11:35:32 AM , Rating: 2
Actually, it leads to self-accepted slavery. If you sell out everything you stand for, for the whim of another; thats exactly what your doing.


RE: pleased to appease
By robinthakur on 10/21/2008 10:47:09 AM , Rating: 2
Well, nobody gave a remote toss what the muslims thought before 9/11 when they got the world's attention by blowing up two large skyscrapers and subsequently London underground and Madrid. They then coordinated worldwide marches and riots which led to huge collateral damage and deaths due to some cartoons which some found offensive. They also threatened to kill a teacher for naming a teddy bear Mohammed.

Appeasement breeds only dictators (see 1933-1945) when applied to individuals and in this case when applied to an entire religion, it seemingly trumps all your country's laws as well as international laws with a new one apparently designed to allow Islamic fascism to spread and gain in confidence and numbers the world over. I have no idea why Sony's recall applies to the Western territories or Japan. Are we all ruled under the Sharia now or something?


RE: pleased to appease
By wempa on 10/20/2008 12:31:14 PM , Rating: 2
Yeah, this is complete nonsense. What about the games that offend people for being too violent ? It's like one group of people matters and another group doesn't matter. There will ALWAYS be things that offend you. Get over it and live life !