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Libya will be the first country to deploy the low-cost laptops

According to the New York Times yesterday, Libya is planning to purchase 1.2 million $100 laptops for children to use. The nation will become the first to have all school-age children connected to the Internet through an educational computer. Libya signed an agreement reportedly worth $250 million with the One Laptop Per Child project. The total cost includes the 1.2 million laptops, technical training, server design and setup and satellite Internet connections. Test models of the laptops are scheduled to roll out in November, and mass production should start by June or July 2007. The deal will hopefully be completed by June 2008.

The OLPC is currently receiving support from the United Nations Developmental Program. Libya also discussed potentially helping to pay for laptops for other African nations like Niger, Rwanda and Chad. The One Laptop Per Child Organization is working with Brazil, Argentina, Thailand and several other countries to try and give children access to low-cost laptops.

Earlier this year, several countries were reported on board with the OLPC project, even though those reports were exaggerated.  Libya's announcement to adopt the OLPC has been linked from the OLPC development page, so it would be safe to say this report is indeed verified.

There has been a massive push to get PC access to citizens in developing nations over the past several years. Intel has its Classmate PC, a $250 laptop that have also been designed to give students in developing countries access to new learning tools.

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African kids don't need laptops
By jskirwin on 10/12/2006 9:02:33 AM , Rating: 2
They need soccer balls, toys, shoes, clean water, mosquito nets, DDT sprayed on the walls of their homes...

I can think of quite a few things the kids need, but a laptop isn't one of them.

On the other hand, they could be useful in secondary and post-secondary education - especially when there are jobs available that require the skills learned on the laptop.

One solution would be to setup outsourcing centers to compete with India and China. There are some cities (Accra, Dar Es Salaam, Nairobi) that have enough infrastructure and educated population to handle offshore venues.




RE: African kids don't need laptops
By Hare on 10/12/2006 9:18:59 AM , Rating: 3
Every single article about the OLPC gets the same replies.

These computers are aimed at people who have water, food and a roof over their heads. Kids/adults with some basic education. You do realize that there are African kids that are starving, that are coping, that have it pretty good and that are wealthy? Africa is a huge continent.


RE: African kids don't need laptops
By Strunf on 10/13/2006 4:59:58 AM , Rating: 3
Africa is huge but Lybia isnt and last time I heard they were lacking of many things far more important than laptops...


RE: African kids don't need laptops
By Targon on 10/12/2006 9:23:46 AM , Rating: 2
I hate to break it to you, but while this is a nice idea, the USA already has a BIG problem with jobs being moved out of the country. Do you really want every single entry level job moved out of this country?

Many of you don't seem to understand that tech support and quality assurance are probably two of the best entry level jobs for those trying to get into the tech sector since you can learn a LOT in these type of positions. Why would anyone WANT to encourage these jobs staying out of the country instead of moving them back?

For those without a good education, customer service jobs also provide a way to make a living, but these too are being moved to other countries. I see phone sales being the next tier of jobs to be moved out of this country.

So, don't encourage the spread of places where companies can outsource to, because it will end up killing this country. Once the costs for outsourcing to India increase enough, jobs may start to come back, but not if people wanting to help the world keep trying to help the rest of the world at the expense of people here.


RE: African kids don't need laptops
By jskirwin on 10/12/2006 9:36:36 AM , Rating: 2
First off I've lived in Africa (Tanzania) and will be traveling there again in December. Yes Africa is a big continent, but I don't think African kids need laptops just like I don't think AMERICAN kids need laptops (gasp! Luddite !)

Kids need to play. They need physical activity just like my border collie does. They need to run - not sit at a laptop, get fat and play Spongebob games.

As for their future, how long do you think it would take for them to learn how to use a computer at the high school or college level?

As for offshoring, I've fought against it (see an organization I founded - http://www.itpaa.org) and know a thing or two about it. However the Africans wouldn't be competing for US jobs - they would be competing against the Indian and Chinese. This is already beginning to occur, with jobs moving from India to places like Malaysia and Vietnam.

People need to think about things from the African perspective. Try to put themselves in the shoes of a man on the streets of Bujumbura or Dar. They don't need a laptop - they need a government that doesn't steal everything that isn't nailed down, and an economic environment in which they are rewarded for their hard work - not penalized for it.


RE: African kids don't need laptops
By Rollomite on 10/12/06, Rating: -1
RE: African kids don't need laptops
By jskirwin on 10/12/2006 10:48:01 AM , Rating: 1
quote:
And I'm sure if they could purchase a new gov't for $100, they'd be all over it.


Right. So instead Ghaddafi is sending them a laptop.

Great PR for a dictator, won't do sh*t to help the African kids.


RE: African kids don't need laptops
By Rollomite on 10/12/2006 3:53:57 PM , Rating: 1
Don't get me wrong. I'm not supporting the dictatorship. Something is better nothing. And although this is not the be all/end all/save all solution, it is better than no advancement at all. That considered, there is no way you can say that "this won't do sh*t" for African kids.

Rollo


By Rollomite on 10/12/2006 4:08:54 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
Something is better nothing


Something is better than nothing.
My bad.

Rollo


RE: African kids don't need laptops
By mlittl3 on 10/12/2006 10:51:56 AM , Rating: 2
Well last time I checked, you don't get much excercise from reading a book either so are you advocating that kids don't read either. Laptops are like textbooks, they provide educational tools to learn about history, reading, writing, mathematics, science, etc. You can't learn these things by throwing a football around. And I don't think these kids are going to sit in front of these laptops 24/7 just like they don't sit in front of a book 24/7.

There is a time for play and a time to sit down and learn something whether it be on a laptop or the printed pages of Shakespeare, what in the hell does it matter?


RE: African kids don't need laptops
By bplewis24 on 10/12/2006 11:21:29 AM , Rating: 1
Yeah...laptops and textbooks are virtually the same, because I always use my laptop to learn about Shakespeare and catch up on my Hemingway. Of course when I'm not catching up on poetry and literature I'm doing my in-depth studies on the theory of relativity. And who could forget the last time I used it to research the history of the pythagorean theorem?

And last but not least, I guess it goes without question that advanced literature and science is more beneficial to an 8-14 year old brain than exercise and activity is to their body, now isn't it? Who woulda thunk it?

Brandon


RE: African kids don't need laptops
By mlittl3 on 10/12/2006 1:49:08 PM , Rating: 1
Wow, I just can't tell if you are being sarcastic or not. ;)


RE: African kids don't need laptops
By jskirwin on 10/12/2006 12:17:03 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
There is a time for play and a time to sit down and learn something whether it be on a laptop or the printed pages of Shakespeare, what in the hell does it matter?


It matters because Africa has been suffering from such "good intentions" since the end of colonialism. This kind of stuff makes the news, and makes companies, governments and people feel better - but it doesn't do squat. If anything, it just adds to the problem of "donor fatigue" where people get tired of trying to help Africans when the best solution is to allow the Africans to help themselves.

If you want to help these kids, send them soccer balls. I've seen them kicking balls made from all kinds of things including stuffed socks.

If you want to help their countries, push for open markets and free trade agreements with them.

Currently any kid that gets educated in countries like Tanzania or Kenya leaves. We need to stop the brain-drain by encouraging economic reforms and especially by allowing them to sell us their goods and services on the open market. Much of that is currently blocked by protectionist legislation in the EU and USA, especially in regards to agricultural products. This would make it worth their while to stay in their native lands and contribute to their success.

It's the kind of thing that doesn't make people feel good, and doesn't make the newspapers, but it works.


RE: African kids don't need laptops
By Kuroyama on 10/12/2006 12:28:06 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
If you want to help their countries, push for open markets and free trade agreements with them.


I don't think the Mexican corn farmers are feeling good about losing their income due to subsidized US corn. Likewise African cotton farmers competing against extremely heavily subsidized US cotton. Free markets are great, don't get me wrong, but if you expect an agrarian country (which Libya is not) to compete then "free trade" should mean "free trade", and not "we'll subsidize our farmers who'll take away the jobs from your farmers, but you're not allowed to subsidize the factory that gives your ex-farmer a new job."


RE: African kids don't need laptops
By crystal clear on 10/12/2006 12:46:12 PM , Rating: 2
African kids dont need CORRUPT GOVTS/OFFICIALS.
Thats the source of their problems & not 100USD laptops
donated to them.
I wonder if they get one in fact-dont be surprised these donated laptops are resold by those corrupt Govt officials.


RE: African kids don't need laptops
By mino on 10/14/2006 4:10:37 PM , Rating: 2
Well, education brings knowledge.
And only knowledgeable people could see whether the government is good or bad.
Usually a bad government does everything it can to shield its people from reality, knowledge and ability to comunicate effectively(often expensive telephone is enough).

This initiative tells me that Libya government may not be the devil we are told it is.

Just a thought.


RE: African kids don't need laptops
By Ringold on 10/12/2006 1:46:17 PM , Rating: 2
"I hate to break it to you, but while this is a nice idea, the USA already has a BIG problem with jobs being moved out of the country. Do you really want every single entry level job moved out of this country? "

I hate to break it to you, but if other people can do it with acceptable quality cheaper than the USA can, then they will and we will lose those jobs. Structural unemployment is a *good* thing; it allows for lower prices across the globe thanks to gains from trade (yes, isolationist nuts, there are GAINS from trade) and specialization in fields where we DO have absolute advantages. Also hate to point out that this has happened to different industries since when your parents were in diapers and yet, astonishingly, GDP grows exponentially just like always.

Throwing up all kinds of alarms is just dishonest over 'outsourcing'. Give it a decade or two, and as manufacturing and low level 'tech' jobs, it'll be some new industries turn to seek lower wages. Meanwhile, Americans can either be lazy and bitch (like Europeans and yourself), or roll with the productivity/technological/efficiency punches and learn new tricks. The alternative, comrade Targon, is socialism, which ultimately is communism without the dictatorship.

Besides, Hong Kong is twice the capitalist state we are, and have gained from it, and I don't hear them whining any. Capitalism, when given a chance, WILL help Africans, that's histories precedent, and it WILL NOT hurt us any in the long run. Pardon me if I dont shed a tear over a customer service rep losing their job and, heaven forbid, have to go to school for a year (quick-start programs) to be a registered nurse and then make twice what they did before (plus 100k signing bonuses in some areas with massive shortages).

Please people, dont make this about us. This is about Africa, and the discussion should be if its good for them or not, not if its good for us or not, because any one that remembers 5 minutes of college macroecon knows that a strong African economy would be only to our own benefit.


Shortcut?
By mindless1 on 10/12/06, Rating: 0
RE: Shortcut?
By ElectricMayhem on 10/12/2006 6:24:29 AM , Rating: 4
I think the "larger puzzle" is actually nothing more than international politics and trade embargoes.

For those not familiar with the Office of Foreign Assets Control organisation, U.S. Department of the Treasury ("OFAC") administers and enforces over 20 different economic sanctions programs. Some of these countries include Cuba, Iran, Iraq, Libya, North Korea, Sudan, Liberia, Sierra Leone, the UNITA faction in Angola, Syria, Burma.

US sanctions include prohibition of certain technology exports. OLPC is, of course, exempt.

I guess if you are the responsible minister of defence in one of these countries, are want to equip your army with the latest technology, AND CAN'T, then the next best you can do is get a wind-up OLPC and use it to build a better catapult.


RE: Shortcut?
By ElectricMayhem on 10/12/2006 6:46:21 AM , Rating: 2
I should have added the following link:

http://www.treas.gov/offices/enforcement/ofac/

It's worth everyone spending 10 minutes reading from this site. It's important to be aware of the environment in which international politics and economics operate.

It will also help put a perspective on some of the political motivations behind the various initiatives that are receiving a lot of public attention.


RE: Shortcut?
By Kuroyama on 10/12/2006 9:34:45 AM , Rating: 2
It is absolutely ridiculous to suggest that any country is going to have trouble buying a desktop or laptop computer that can highly outperform the OLPC. This a country that is just across the Mediterranean from Europe, and I highly doubt that any country in Europe would have a problem with exporting boatloads of desktops or laptops across the pond to Libya.

But supposing, hypothetically, that Europe won't let them buy a computer based on the latest Core 2 Extreme CPU. Well, all they need to do is go online, customize a Dell desktop or laptop, and then call up Khadafi's son in Italy and ask him to order it and bring it by on his next trip back home.

If you want to bash the OLPC then can't you think of a better conspiracy theory than this?


RE: Shortcut?
By lemonadesoda on 10/12/2006 10:21:57 AM , Rating: 2
Trying to embarrass yourself? I think it's pretty obvious that
quote:
...then the next best you can do is get a wind-up OLPC and use it to build a better catapult
is sarcastic. Unless you think that Libya is has a Model Medieval Army, where they use catapults, guillotines and thumbscrews. (actually, maybe they do! LOL)

I think you might be interested to take a look at:

http://whatis.techtarget.com/definition/0,,sid9_gc...

and

http://www.bis.doc.gov/policiesandregulations/Liby...

just to get a quick lesson in "conspiracy theories".


RE: Shortcut?
By Kuroyama on 10/12/2006 11:14:30 AM , Rating: 2
Of course "build a better catapult" is an idiomatic and sarcastic expression referring to simply improving weaponry.

From the US sanctions information you referred to:

quote:
Items with a CTP of 6 MTOPs or more and destined to military, police, intelligence or other sensitive end-users in Libya will generally be denied.


According to Intel benchmarks

http://www.intel.com/support/processors/sb/CS-0231...

a Core 2 Extreme has a CTP of 45000 MTOPS, far above the US threshold.

For that matter, I wonder if the OLPC processors might not even be exportable to "miltary" in Libya. The US was quite insistent in Iraq at restricting access to anything that might have a military purpose, no matter how unlikely it were to be used for that. It could be argued that the OLPC would be a very useful battlefield computer (no need for batteries, highly portable, and claimed to be difficult to break) and hence non-exportable to Libya.

In a somewhat humorous version of a similar idea, back in the year 2000 the Playstation 2 was under export controls from Japan because it was thought the technology was sophisticated enough that it might be used to control a North Korean missile.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/7162...

In any case, there are people on Dailytech who are serious when they post even more absurd political accusations than that of the earlier posting. If his posting was entirely in jest and making fun of the anti-OLPC crowd, then congrats on making me look like an idiot while thinking he was being an idiot. As a fan of the Colbert Report I should be more careful to consider the possibilities of sarcasm in an otherwise serious sounding posting. However, I would be very surprised if there are not a handful of people on this site who will read that posting and believe that it is another way the OLPC group is evil.


RE: Shortcut?
By ElectricMayhem on 10/12/2006 10:48:03 AM , Rating: 3
Actually, trading with restricted countries is more difficult that you think. Did you hear about this weeks "nuclear bomb testing" in North Korea? What is happening at the U.N.? Discussing trade restrictions.

Trade restrictions cover software as well as hardware. Take a look at your Adobe or Microsoft license:
quote:
The export and re-export of software products are controlled by the United States Export Administration Regulations and such software may not be exported or re-exported to Cuba, Iran, Iraq, Libya, North Korea, Sudan, Syria, or any country to which the United States embargoes goods.
and
quote:
By downloading or using this software product you are certifying that you are not a national of Cuba, Iran, Iraq, Libya, North Korea, Sudan, Syria, or any country to which the United States embargoes goods and that you are not a person on the Table of Denial Orders, the Entity List, or the List of Specially Designated Nationals


RE: Shortcut?
By Kuroyama on 10/12/2006 11:25:57 AM , Rating: 2
Re the nuclear test. I do not say Libya should or should not be allowed to buy powerful desktop or laptop computers, only that they would have no problem getting them if they want to. I am sure that the Libyan equivalent of Best Buy is stocked with plenty of goodies that put an OLPC to shame.

US sanctions on something as widely available as a home computer are not going to be particularly effective when the rest of the world does not recognize our sanctions. Nuclear, biological, and chemical weapons material are a rather different matter. And North Korea is a slightly more isolated country than is Libya. Kim Jong Il might even have trouble keeping his Holywood movie collection up to date if China and Russia were a little tougher with him.


RE: Shortcut?
By crystal clear on 10/12/2006 12:40:07 PM , Rating: 2
Hey where is the argument leading to-

100 USD laptops thats all for children.

What short cuts,what embargoes?????
Experience has shown sanctions,embargoes dont work.
If you guys have the know how,experience in international trade,you would know that -

ONE can BUY anything in the world if you are willing to PAY.
Technology,hardware,software,expertize,parts,mach inery-name
what you like,you can get it.

So lets stick to the subject 100$ latops ,with that you cannot do what super computers do.
If Libya wishes to donate them-its their money their decision,nobody can question their decision.
Simple as that.


RE: Shortcut?
By Kuroyama on 10/12/2006 12:51:46 PM , Rating: 2
Well, Khadafi is a megalomaniac dictator who has no compunctions in taking the oil money that should belong to his population, and letting them live in poverty while he tries to enhance his personal reputation by handing out goodies. Even if the laptops are for Libyan children, it is natural to wonder if he does this out of a true belief that it is helpful, or out of a belief that it will make him look like a nice guy for giving Libyan kids laptops. If this is the only type of customer the OLPC folks can line up then it is not encouraging.

It is worth questioning his motives, and asking if this is a good use for money (especially by a non-democratic government), but yes, embargo, military, trade, etc. is a different topic.


RE: Shortcut?
By ElectricMayhem on 10/12/2006 2:44:57 PM , Rating: 2
I have to agree with Kuroyama on that one. (except the megalomaniac dictator bit... I haven't met Khadafi personally or seen his political or economic agenda, but I am wary of the tainted picture we get through some of our media channels. Same goes for Castro, and others).

But I think it leads us back to the Original Posters comments... that, unfortunately, there are a lot of political undercurrents that we, Joe Local, are not aware of. A simplistic view fails to identify the political motives.

If I remember correctly, Iraq cannot "sell" its oil for cash, but can only trade for things like "food" etc under some specific U.N. sanctioned trade embargo/aid program. (Overly simplistic, I know, but you get the point).

And I think Libya is in a similar "cornered" position.


RE: Shortcut?
By peternelson on 10/13/2006 7:38:27 AM , Rating: 2
"subject 100$ latops ,with that you cannot do what super computers do. "

Actually they CAN do what supercomputers do.

Old supercomputers used to be a high performance (vector) core or several in a box that ran fast.

More recently many of the top 500 supercomputers are in fact CLUSTERS of PCs running LINUX. Maybe 1000 nodes of Intel or AMD.

Now, Libya are buying ONE MILLION of these admittedly less powerful (circa 300 MHz) pcs running linux.

And they are networkable.

So go figure: Which will be the better supercomputer?

1000 nodes at 2Ghz
or a MILLION nodes at 300MHz.

I'd say that sounds like exporting a MASSIVELY POWERFUL SUPERCOMPUTER.


RE: Shortcut?
By peternelson on 10/13/2006 7:41:41 AM , Rating: 2
I'm aware of certain apps that need close coupled interprocessor comms and low latency, but many others don't eg look at distributed.net project for key cracking.

So let's say 1m olpc are shipped to Libya.

Then some "unfortunate" logistics delay means they have to wait in a warehouse before being handed out to kids.

That warehouse just became a military datacentre to crack encryption, model nuclear blasts, enhance satellite imagery ....


Nice but...
By Pythias on 10/12/2006 8:40:58 AM , Rating: 2
There are planty of families in the United States who cant afford computers. Why isn't anyone selling them 100 dollar laptops?




RE: Nice but...
By ThisSpaceForRent on 10/12/2006 9:08:49 AM , Rating: 2
We live in a country of double standards. You're completely free to do whatever you want. Some of the choices of freedom include being completely destitute, and not caring about your fellow citizens. Then there is that whole stigma in this country about social programs. Sounds too much like socialist, which is communist, which who cares anyway? Of course that is a flame fest for another post, hehe.

I think the success of this program is assuming a lot about the freedoms a country will allow its citizens. After all knowledgeable citizens can be dangerous, they ask questions, and have ideas. There could be consequences down the road for doing something so simple, and benign, as educating a countries children.


RE: Nice but...
By Zirconium on 10/12/2006 10:06:34 AM , Rating: 2
I couldn't quite understand that either. Supposedly, this laptop is sold at cost, and that the more people buy, the more costs go down. So if they sold this thing for $150 to those who could afford it and whose governments weren't giving them one for free, they could make a profit and drive costs down, since more people are buying. They were trying to sell this thing on ebay or something for three or four hundred dollars; supposedly $100 to cover costs and the rest to go as charity to pay for more laptops. My sinking suspicion is that these things don't actually cost $100 yet. They sold 1.2 million to Libya for 250 million dollars. Even with the support and infrastructure they are providing, I'm guessing that part of that money went to pay for more than $100 per laptop.


RE: Nice but...
By Ringold on 10/12/2006 1:56:24 PM , Rating: 2
I went to an 'inner city' (read: poor black) high school for a magnet program (read: program to attempt to encourage desegregation by having smart white kids go to poor minority schools), which was such a waste of 4 years, but anyway.. For a school full of people that you would say "cant afford computers", and indeed could probably barely afford good meals, they sure as hell had much nicer clothes than I ever did! Their homes ceiling might be leaking, they might be on welfare, they might be drinking watered down milk, but the things that culturally mattered to those people they bought at any cost (brand name stuff), and stuff they didnt fell to the wayside.

There's a reason why "The rich get richer and the poor have babies". When the lower classes choose to rise above, they can and they shall, but it's not our job to spoon feed them. I saw plenty of destitute kids work two jobs and then work their way through college. If they dont have a computer it's because their welfare checks arent big enough to buy Sean Jean and Dells at the same time.

Africa, though, has a whole set of problems that we most certainly do not. We have the infrastructure that makes upward mobility easy as pie; Africa, not so. Hence, projects like this.


Turning around
By judasmachine on 10/12/2006 7:10:15 AM , Rating: 2
I think Libya does make a good example to others in the region. He (Qadaffi) I think is finding that his own social programs work better with the US and the 'first' world helping instead of bombing. Anyway, I hope these PCs help educate and connect a new generation of Libyans.




RE: Turning around
By Targon on 10/12/2006 9:11:51 AM , Rating: 1
The problem is that there will be many people over there that will point to things on the Internet as examples why they should hate the USA and other "more civilized" nations. It's like giving someone a shovel and showing how it's easier to use one to dig a hole, only to find out later that same shovel is being used as a weapon, not a tool.

Most of the middle east is like that, where they learn to hate the USA while at the same time, using things that were developed over here without thinking about it.



RE: Turning around
By mino on 10/14/2006 4:17:39 PM , Rating: 2
" other "more civilized" nations "

I hope you didn't mean this.

Learn some history and then write about who is civilized.
Hint: the word came from "civilization".

To underestimate people one has just heard about is not only stupid, but may be dangerous too.


Irrelevant
By fishmonger12 on 10/13/2006 9:17:54 AM , Rating: 2
Assuming the kids do need food and water desperately, they can always sell the laptop and use the money to buy food and water. So either way, they benefit, right?




RE: Irrelevant
By mino on 10/14/2006 4:20:49 PM , Rating: 2
IMHO the laptops are gonna be school owned.

Also it is far more effective to teach someone how to make/obtain food/water the to just give him a supply for a few days/weeks/years...


Good example
By crystal clear on 10/12/2006 4:49:35 AM , Rating: 2
Thats what I call money well spent or money put to good use.

Plus to buy more to donate to other African countries is a very good thing to do.
This should set a good example to other OIL RICH nations in the region to follow Libyas example.




RE: Good example
By ElectricMayhem on 10/12/2006 6:32:13 AM , Rating: 1
I think a better example would be for OIL and TECHNOLOGY RICH western countries to offer free OLPC to these countries as a substitute to the politicized monetary and arms support they are currently giving to certain factions.

Why not open the OLPC to Corporate sponsorship? It would either reduce the price, or allow a more advanced machine. Advertising: a POST screen with a nice ad. No longer the BIOS manufacturer, but "McDonalds" or "Coke" or "Ford trucks" or "Sherman tanks are best!" or political messages like "Make Love not War" or "The US Govt wants YOU!" or "love thy neighbor, dont kill him!".


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