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Lenovo is using Windows 8 Pro for its new ThinkPad Helix instead

Lenovo chose to use Windows 8 Pro for its new hybrid notebook/tablet because it believes businesses don't want Windows RT

Lenovo Think PC and visual category manager Simon Kent said Windows 8 Pro was the obvious choice for its new hybrid notebook/tablet -- the ThinkPad Helix -- because businesses want the full Windows 8 experience instead of the sliced and diced OS that is Windows RT.

"We don't believe that Windows RT is what businesses want," Kent said. "This is particularly true for a premium product such as Helix, which gives you the performance and capability of a full Ultrabook as well as a business tablet."

"Even Microsoft has started to review the RT path they have gone down."

Kent described the ThinkPad Helix as an Ultrabook first and a tablet second, where businesses can use it as a hard-working, performance tool or just a vehicle for content consumption -- whether they're at a desk or on-the-go. 



Windows RT has been a huge disappointment for hardware makers. Companies like Dell and Lenovo have recently slashed the prices of their RT-powered devices because they can't seem to clear their inventory. For instance, Lenovo offered a seven-day deal last month where its IdeaPad Yoga 11 was available for just $599 -- down from the original $799 price. Amazon sells the model for just $499.

The Dell XPS 10 tablet with Windows RT, which launched at $500 for the 32GB, is now $450. The 64GB model launched at $599 and is now $499. 

Neil Hand, head of Dell's tablet and high-end PC business, even told CNET that demand for the XPS 10 tablet was a disappointment. 

"Demand is not where I would like it to be at this point in time," said Hand. "The amount of market information about it is not good enough, and the market sentiment is still pretty negative."

Despite criticism of Windows RT, Microsoft has been defending its baby and denying rumors that it will die off. However, a Bloomberg source anonymously revealed that Microsoft has sold 1.5 million Surface tablets as of March. More specifically, the company had sold a little over a million Surface with Windows RT tablets and about 400,000 Surface with Windows Pro tablets.

Source: PC World



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Besides RT
By zlandar on 5/1/2013 12:56:00 PM , Rating: 5
They don't want Windows 8 either.




RE: Besides RT
By luv2liv on 5/1/2013 1:15:15 PM , Rating: 3
im sure if RT machines were priced at $99 like HP Touchpad, RT would sell.
$700 was way overpriced. and $300 or $400 would make more sense


RE: Besides RT
By zephyrprime on 5/1/2013 1:44:11 PM , Rating: 4
The touchpad was only that cheap because it was being liquidated by a company that was exiting the tablet market so it is not a fair comparison. Also, businesses bought just about zero touchpads at that price.


RE: Besides RT
By MrBungle123 on 5/1/2013 1:49:01 PM , Rating: 2
Businesses are not going to buy Win RT devices regardless of price because they are useless from a business standpoint.


RE: Besides RT
By andrewaggb on 5/1/2013 3:17:03 PM , Rating: 3
if they had outlook, full active directory support, and office was licensed for business use, businesses probably would have loved RT.

It still wouldn't run legacy windows apps but many businesses may have been ok with that.

Consumers wanted them to be a lot cheaper. $300-$400, not $500+


RE: Besides RT
By Labotomizer on 5/1/2013 3:43:40 PM , Rating: 4
And there you have it. If you're going to accept a stripped down version of Windows, it requires a stripped down price. If you have a proper Citrix or TS environment built out and that's what runs your LoB apps then RT would be fine. Then again so is Android and iOS. And RT without Outlook isn't good enough to require more money. At $3-400, with Outlook, I would say it would be a viable alternative with the right infrastructure. They could use local documents and access company apps over the rest. It would be great. But at $600 w/ the keyboard, which is a necessity? Crazy...

I think the Pro is a good deal though.


RE: Besides RT
By Argon18 on 5/1/2013 5:00:14 PM , Rating: 2
Huh? I doesn't matter what it runs. A tablet is not a business computer. Employees get a bottom-dollar cheapo PC on their desk. Cheapo PC cannot be replaced by a tablet, because nobody wants to work on a tiny screen all day. They need a full sized monitor, keyboard, and mouse. Cheapo PC cannot be supplemented by the tablet because it's too expensive and doesn't add value, doesn't improve productivity.

The only folks who may be able to use such a device are traveling sales men, and executives. That's a niche market, at best.

Windows tablet is an answer to a question nobody asked.


RE: Besides RT
By amanojaku on 5/1/2013 6:30:34 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
Huh? I doesn't matter what it runs. A tablet is not a business computer.
Yes, it DOES matter. If tablets ran office productivity suites, then they would qualify as business computers. If tablets ran graphics software or SDKs, then they would qualify as workstations. The only things limiting a tablet these days are software availability and high-end horsepower.
quote:
Employees get a bottom-dollar cheapo PC on their desk.
Which explains the attraction of tablets, netbooks, and notebooks: portability.
quote:
Cheapo PC cannot be replaced by a tablet, because nobody wants to work on a tiny screen all day. They need a full sized monitor, keyboard, and mouse.
Some tablets support docking stations, some have wireless peripherals, and others have built-in ports for HDMI, USB and removable memory cards. The point behind tablets is that you can unplug them from those devices when they aren't needed.
quote:
Cheapo PC cannot be supplemented by the tablet because it's too expensive and doesn't add value, doesn't improve productivity.
That is true for today's tablets. However, as the performance continues to improve and the prices continue to drop, the software library and productivity will increase.
quote:
The only folks who may be able to use such a device are traveling sales men, and executives. That's a niche market, at best.
The first statement is mostly true, the second is completely false. There are many individuals who perform presentations on tablets, including software engineers. Again, the limitations are performance, which is improving, and software, which is becoming more diverse. And when you consider the number of executives, salesmen and marketers, they aren't a niche market at all. According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, there are:

2.1M Executives
1.8M Wholesale and Manufacturing Sales Reps
300K Financial Services Sales Reps
160K Advertising Sales Reps
66K Sales Engineers
4.5M Retail Sales Reps
500K Real Estate Sales Reps
500K Insurance Sales Reps

That's close to 10M jobs, as of 2010.

And consider department meetings. You wouldn't need a computer hooked up to a projector if the tablet could do that. No need for profile synching, or RDP to the presenter's desktop. The number of laptops would decrease, as well. Tablets are ridiculously expensive, but still cheaper than the average business laptop, which is normally $1,200 or more.
quote:
Windows tablet is an answer to a question nobody asked.
So was the iPad, yet Apple managed to make a case for consumer use. Had it tried, Apple could have made the iPad into a business device, as well. For now, only MS is trying with the Surface Pro, but it made a mistake in making RT in an attempt to steal iPad market share.


RE: Besides RT
By retrospooty on 5/2/2013 8:50:51 AM , Rating: 2
You forget that most of those 10m people arent just stats, they are actual people with actual jobs at real companies and almost all of them have specific software they use, all of which requires an x86 version of Windows. Not that tablets arent capable, but the enterprise/business software doesnt exist.


RE: Besides RT
By aliasfox on 5/2/2013 10:57:12 AM , Rating: 2
I've presented to many, many higher-ups (not even executives) that view presentations on ultralights (or ultrabooks now) or blackberries. These are people that don't do a whole lot of heavy lifting in their day-to-day role, but have to jump from meeting to meeting, often in different buildings.

A tablet that can natively view (and do basic editing of) Office apps that can tap into Outlook/Active Directory would be perfect for these people.

Not to mention anybody in business who flies - you can barely open a laptop comfortably in business class, and forget about most coach seats if you're carrying something larger than 13". If you're prepping for your next presentation in Word or Powerpoint or just catching up on replying to email, you don't need high horsepower nor do you have immense input needs.


RE: Besides RT
By retrospooty on 5/2/2013 12:40:26 PM , Rating: 2
Sure, it works for some, but not for most. Most companies have at least 1 (if not alot more) apps that everyone uses that only runs on an x86 Windows machine. Tablets are certainly good for alot of the "mobile professional" types while travelling ,but when they come back to the office, they still needs their x86 PC's. So, its a good addition, but not even close to a replacement.


RE: Besides RT
By Pirks on 5/2/2013 4:01:37 PM , Rating: 2
It is a perfect replacement if the tablet has x86 Atom with Windows 8 inside, ESPECIALLY if this Atom is Bay Trail. ARM doesn't get even close to Bay Trail in awesomeness as a tablet chip, IMHO. Learn the basics retro! Shame on you :)


RE: Besides RT
By retrospooty on 5/2/2013 6:11:16 PM , Rating: 2
"It is a perfect replacement if the tablet has x86 Atom with Windows 8 inside, ESPECIALLY if this Atom is Bay Trail. ARM doesn't get even close to Bay Trail in awesomeness as a tablet chip, IMHO. Learn the basics retro! Shame on you :)"

We are both making the same point. Someone above was asserting that tablets like IOS and Android will make big gains and replace PC's in the enterprise sector and I was saying, hell no they wont, not in the next decade if ever. It has to be x86 or its not going to happen.


RE: Besides RT
By amanojaku on 5/2/2013 11:21:39 AM , Rating: 2
I didn't forget anything.
quote:
The only things limiting a tablet these days are software availability and high-end horsepower.
I already pointed out the lack of software, and the reason for this is the hardware. Tablets aren't capable yet.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_tablet_...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galaxy_Tab#Model_comp...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samsung_Galaxy_Note_s...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ipad#Model_comparison
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_Xperia_Tablet_Z

How do you expect to run enterprise software on Android or iOS tablets, when the best they have to offer is 2GiB of RAM and dual-core ARM CPUs less than 2GHz?

On the other hand, the best tablets performance-wise seem to be based on Windows 8 Pro, and only because MS created the Surface Pro first. Many of those tablets support 4-8GiB of RAM, but they're still gimped in the CPU. Not unexpected in that form factor, but you're still limited to dual-core i5s or i7s at less than 2GHz.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_tablet_...

And when you factor in the price (>$1,000) and weight (2lbs) of those tablets, a traditional Ivy Bridge laptop makes more sense. As an AMD lover, you have no idea how bitter I feel admitting defeat.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Sub...


RE: Besides RT
By retrospooty on 5/2/2013 12:55:05 PM , Rating: 2
What I mean is that the software wont exist, even when tablets catch up in horsepwer. Not for the most part. I dont mean MS office compatible apps, or light web based apps, I am talking the meat and potatoes that businesses run off of. For example, a manufacturing company... There is specialized software for each area of the business. Planning, purchasing, inbound logistics, warehousing, shop floor, shipping, accounting, reverse logistics, CRM software etc etc... Each area has software written and specialized for its use. Even if tablets could run it horsepower-wise (much of which they already could) no-one is making the software and no-one likely will, at least not for a long long time.


RE: Besides RT
By Pirks on 5/2/2013 5:06:22 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
Planning, purchasing, inbound logistics, warehousing, shop floor, shipping, accounting, reverse logistics, CRM software etc etc
Yeah all of that runs like butter on a Bay Trail tablet, so what's your point again?


RE: Besides RT
By retrospooty on 5/2/2013 6:06:21 PM , Rating: 2
My point was that ARM based tablets arent going to take over the business sector. Meaning IOS, Android and WinRT arent going anywhere in enterprise... This is where Windows x86 tablets like your Surface could be highly useful.


RE: Besides RT
By MrBungle123 on 5/2/2013 1:42:52 PM , Rating: 2
I doesn't matter how fast the tablets get...

No one is going to run their <insert database here> on a tablet because the form factor is wrong. It is just not comfortable to do so... yes you can run desktop programs on a surface but the 10" screen and small keyboard are a deal breaker if its something you're going to be working on at a stationary desk 8 hours a day 5 days a week.


RE: Besides RT
By amanojaku on 5/2/2013 2:44:16 PM , Rating: 2
I already addressed the issue of small screens and keyboards.
quote:
Some tablets support docking stations, some have wireless peripherals, and others have built-in ports for HDMI, USB and removable memory cards. The point behind tablets is that you can unplug them from those devices when they aren't needed.
Thousands, if not millions, of corporate laptop users dock on a daily basis and connect to large screens and keyboards. And you make it sound like it's impossible to make a tablet computer with a screen larger than 10.1 inches. While I don't see a need for the current crop of tablets (not suited for business, and too expensive for consumer use), I see tablets and laptops merging at some point in the future. Tablets will be laptops without a keyboard.

I'm not sure if the problem is that I'm not explaining myself well, or if I'm just talking to a bunch of Archers who don't get core concepts.


RE: Besides RT
By MrBungle123 on 5/2/2013 5:01:44 PM , Rating: 2
quote:
I see tablets and laptops merging at some point in the future. Tablets will be laptops without a keyboard. I'm not sure if the problem is that I'm not explaining myself well, or if I'm just talking to a bunch of Archers who don't get core concepts.


Have you considered that maybe you're just wrong?

A comfortable size for working on a laptop is 14-17" inches... yes you can get by with 13" if the resolution is low enough but again low resolution can make working uncomfortable as well, 1600x900 or 1920x1080 is required to give yourself the screen real estate to effectively multitask. Large numbers of people's eyes are not good enough to read 10-12pt font on a 10" 1920x1080 monitor without zooming.

That said, 14-17 inches is too big for a tablet, they start to lose their portability advantages at that size. Lugging around extra keyboards and monitors also causes you to lose that portability advantage, so that becomes impractical at a point. Sure a business could just setup a dock with a monitor and keyboard/mouse but why? Now you have a device that the user could forget at home or lose and that makes sharing between users more difficult so in that case a desktop makes more sense.

The preferred size for a tablet 7-10" is too small for laptops and the preferred size for a laptop is too big for a tablet. They are two different market segments and will be for physical reasons regardless of how refined the technology becomes. The fact is there is no such thing as a one size fits all device, it doesn't work for cars, it doesn't work for TVs, and its not going to work for personal computing devices either.


RE: Besides RT
By invidious on 5/1/2013 4:23:45 PM , Rating: 2
If your assertion is that any tablet that can't run desktop applciation is useless then the same applies to the iPad, yet business purchase those. I would agree that from a worker productivity perspective any tablet that doesnt run desktop applications is limitted, but that isn't the only motivating factor in business. Sometimes businesses want to experiment with new technology to see if it has unexpected advantages. Sometimes they just want to appear flashy in front of their clients.

To all the the Apple fans who are appauled at the idea of a windows 8 tablet being considered flashy, the iPad may be vastly popular than windows 8 tablets, but it is not more "fresh". Like it or not sometimes people just want whatever is newest.


RE: Besides RT
By Samus on 5/1/2013 4:15:14 PM , Rating: 2
I agree. RT is just overpriced. It offers no compelling advantage over, say, Android, because it lacks what Android lacks: Win32/64 compatibility.

Windows 8 is quite usable as a tablet OS, but without a touch screen Windows 8 can be pretty annoying to navigate.


RE: Besides RT
By kmmatney on 5/1/2013 4:42:42 PM , Rating: 2
Windows 8 is also a good desktop OS, once you add a start menu and skip the Metro screen (and uninstall every Metro App you can). Windows 8 was a no-brainer for me - $15 to upgrade my work computer (from Win7 Home Premium), and $39 for my home computer (from Win7 32-bit). If Windows 8 and Windows 7 were the same price, I think I'd still pick windows 8 for under-the-hood enhancements. They screwed up by forcing the new UI.


RE: Besides RT
By TakinYourPoints on 5/1/2013 5:22:53 PM , Rating: 2
I installed it on a second partition on one of my laptops. It isn't enough for me to install on my main desktop, but we'll see what they improve with the next version.

Maybe its because I use SSDs in all my machines but the difference in performance really wasn't as much as I was hoping it would be. Otherwise things like the new task manager and native ISO mounting (should have been in there ten years ago) are nice. Everything Metro is useless, no applications and I don't care to run fullscreen-only apps on something that isn't a phone or tablet. The fact that it boots to Metro with no option to do otherwise is annoying.


RE: Besides RT
By damianrobertjones on 5/2/2013 3:58:25 AM , Rating: 2
My site licence proves you wrong and so do the ten staff currently using Windows 8.


Windows RT was just a contingency plan
By Mint on 5/1/2013 12:16:32 PM , Rating: 2
They wanted to make sure Intel didn't slack off with Atom, which they did in the past because they wanted to avoid cannibalizing i3 sales but make it just good enough to hold off AMD/Via. It also puts pressure on Intel to not overprice their low end offerings.

In addition, MS wanted to make a statement that iOS and ChromeOS running on ARM were nothing special.

I don't think MS put much effort into RT. They had the ARM kernel for Windows Phone anyway.




RE: Windows RT was just a contingency plan
By Crazyeyeskillah on 5/1/2013 2:08:06 PM , Rating: 2
I think of a stable, cut down version of it being utilized in restaurant touch screens and the like. I just don't see spending that much money and not having full blown windows 8 on any of these devices. I can't speak from experience having only toyed around with RT in some stores, but can anyone sound off that owns an RT device regarding how its real world use may compare with android or iOS?


RE: Windows RT was just a contingency plan
By Solandri on 5/1/2013 2:45:18 PM , Rating: 2
OP is correct. Windows was married to x86/x64, and runs solely on Intel and AMD CPUs. RT is essentially the port of Windows to ARM. That gives Microsoft a finger in both pies.

If ARM somehow ends up beating Intel on the CPU front, Microsoft can still sell Windows. It will just be the RT version.


RE: Windows RT was just a contingency plan
By twhittet on 5/1/2013 3:18:25 PM , Rating: 2
They still won't be able to sell RT to businesses - RT can't join a domain. I had been interested in using RT tablets at my job until I realized it was just a crappy consumer tablet, and no better at "enterprise" integration than android or IOS.


By Labotomizer on 5/1/2013 3:45:16 PM , Rating: 2
It could be so much more. Although I think not offering RT Pro was a good move. Sometimes more choices are bad.


By Da W on 5/1/2013 4:30:10 PM , Rating: 2
If they still won't want RT, then they won't want ARm either. x86 is saved!


RE: Windows RT was just a contingency plan
By domboy on 5/1/2013 4:57:30 PM , Rating: 2
I own a Surface RT. I wanted the battery life of the ARM CPU, plus couldn't justify the extra $400 a Surface Pro. I was however very hesitant about the whole ModernUI apps only situation, and THE only reason I decided to pull the trigger is when the "jailbreak" to unlock the desktop executable signing requirement was designed by the XDA developers (I also got in on sale at Staples). It showed what Windows on ARM should have been. While I think the Surface RT is very nice, I think MS should have released Windows 8 Pro for ARM as well. An artificially limited desktop is a dumb move as business should be allowed to recompile desktop apps for ARM, it would have made the VPN a non-issue as vendors could have just recompiled their VPN clients, and besides, a lot of .NET 4.x apps can run on ARM with little or no modifications already. Not everything should be full-screen modernui app.

I really think Microsoft missed the boat in thinking RT should be a consumer only device. There may be some people that just want a touch-only device, but my attraction to the Surface is that is designed to be a tablet and a laptop (I got the type keyboard). ModernUI/tablet/consumption mode for surfing the web and a few games, and laptop/desktop mode for productivity. It makes sense why Office is still a desktop app even on RT, and I doubt I'd switch to a ModernUI version, as I'm going to be using a keyboard and in laptop mode when I'm doing any serious typing.


RE: Windows RT was just a contingency plan
By andrewaggb on 5/1/2013 11:32:52 PM , Rating: 2
Yeah I agree with you. Why couldn't they have allowed recompiling desktop apps to arm and put them in the store. It would have made the product way more compelling.

We haven't heard anything about the windows 8.1 RT release though.. and it sounds like microsoft is starting to take feedback for windows 8 seriously (after their sales disaster...) so maybe there is still hope for it.


By inighthawki on 5/2/2013 12:17:29 AM , Rating: 2
Preventing people from compiling desktop apps for Windows RT and sticking strictly to a closed marketplace environment decreases malware and also makes the platform more viable for businesses who wish to protect their content, such as the media industry, who will likely be more willing to provide content via xbox music and xbox videos if they can be more assured that people won't just write programs to rip the DRM off their content on that platform.


RE: Windows RT was just a contingency plan
By w8gaming on 5/2/2013 2:14:25 AM , Rating: 2
Atom based Windows 8 hybrid tablet already has the battery life equivalent to ARM CPU, and the price is normally only slightly higher than Surface RT. Microsoft could have made a Surface variant running Atom and it would have the great battery life and support for proper desktop mode. Not sure why they decide not to. Many people who wants long battery life running Windows, and is willing to go with the tradeoff running ARM, could have gotten Atom based tablet. ARM performance is not faster than Atom at this point of time.


RE: Windows RT was just a contingency plan
By domboy on 5/2/2013 9:18:22 AM , Rating: 2
Very true, I have played with a Dell Latitude 10 at work which is Atom based. It's pretty nice, just quite as refined as the Surface. And it lacks the a detachable keyboard like the Surface and some of the other convertibles out there. I'd be interested in seeing an AMD APU in something like the Surface in the future. When x86 gets down to near the battery life of current ARM cpus and if Windows on ARM stays what RT currently is, x86 running Windows 8 will probably marginalize it which would be unfortunate. It could have been so much better.


By Pirks on 5/3/2013 2:53:38 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
I'd be interested in seeing an AMD APU in something like the Surface in the future
With the huge performance strides in Haswell GPU - not likely. After reading Anandtech's article about Haswell GPU I realized that AMD is dead.


Businesses Don't want Windows 8 Either
By aurareturn on 5/1/2013 12:54:40 PM , Rating: 4
I have yet to encounter an decent IT department that gives users Windows 8 machines.




RE: Businesses Don't want Windows 8 Either
By mritter1981 on 5/1/2013 1:45:49 PM , Rating: 2
In part because they don't want to "teach" the users how to use it (Win 8/RT). Even worse is remoting into these systems /shudder/. Admins DO NOT WANT Winblows 8 (or RT)!


RE: Businesses Don't want Windows 8 Either
By Labotomizer on 5/1/2013 3:40:47 PM , Rating: 2
What a business wants and what admins want have very little in common. Admins are pretty low on the corporate totem pole.


RE: Businesses Don't want Windows 8 Either
By Argon18 on 5/1/2013 5:04:09 PM , Rating: 2
Maybe at your job, and I'm sorry to hear your in such a dead end position. Here, the senior admins advise the CIO on what to purchase. During my tenure, I've successfully eliminated over 60 Microsoft servers, and 200 Microsoft desktops, replacing them all with Red Hat Enterprise Linux. CIO's love it when you can save them money AND deliver a more reliable and robust solution. The beauty of Web applications is you can run them from any platform with a browser, allowing you to eliminate troublesome and unreliable Microsoft computers.


By Pirks on 5/1/2013 7:07:40 PM , Rating: 1
quote:
200 Microsoft desktops, replacing them all with Red Hat Enterprise Linux
Everyone see that? Argon just replaced Windows on client machines with some freeware crap and made his users life miserable because they now have to deal with Linux training and mediocre funky Linux UI. This is totally fine for him, BUT the moment any user would want Windows 8 Argon would scream nooo you will need training it is different there will be EXPENSEZZZ!!! Yeah sure Unix boy, we can see through your double standard lies, you are full of sh1t just like any other crazy Unix admin.


RE: Businesses Don't want Windows 8 Either
By Labotomizer on 5/1/2013 10:12:26 PM , Rating: 3
That's hilarious. I work at a dead end job? You make the assumption that I'm an admin, which is quite amusing in all honesty. You can pound your chest and call yourself an admin all day long. I'm a Senior Systems Engineer at a company that does 1.5 billion/year in revenue delivering data center infrastructure and managed services. I work with Linux all the time because I'm a certified F5 engineer, which is a platform that runs on Linux. I'm also a MCITP and spend a lot of time working in VMware and Cisco network equipment. So I find it pretty funny that you think you're even close to my level, let alone "above me".

Also, if you're in an environment where you've "replaced 60 Microsoft servers" with RHEL and you think you're saving your company money you should be drug tested. Considering that is likely a fraction of the servers you're running, at least, moderately dense virtualization. And what does every enterprise on the planet buy for virtualization servers these days? That's right, Microsoft Server Datacenter edition. Which allows unlimited Windows VMs. So by converting you've managed to lock yourself into support contracts with Redhat, which cost more than Windows Server with an Enterprise Agreement, while not eliminating ANY expenses at all.

Oh, you've saved $100/desktop or so across 200 users? But required retraining, increased support costs because Windows desktop support personal are a dime a dozen. Redhat desktop support? WAY more expensive.

You crack me up. You clearly just spout what you've read on the internet and have absolutely 0 clue what you're talking about. Thanks for playing though.


By retrospooty on 5/2/2013 8:56:00 AM , Rating: 2
LOL... Someone give this post a 3,4 and a 5 so it can be +6'd.


By Pirks on 5/2/2013 4:12:08 PM , Rating: 2
That's 6 right there!!!

COME ON DT GIVE THIS ONE A SIX!! This is one of best quality posts here ever!!!


By Labotomizer on 5/1/2013 3:47:09 PM , Rating: 2
Our IT department doesn't include Win 8, but if you have a new computer licensed for it and want to use it they don't care. Then again it's mostly engineers here so the IT department doesn't really support our workstations.


MS already said RT is for consumers, not businesses
By Pirks on 5/1/2013 1:34:02 PM , Rating: 1
So Tiffany is just playing Captain Obvious here




By retrospooty on 5/1/2013 2:04:31 PM , Rating: 2
What strikes me is that Lenovo said it. Duh, as a major OEM you know that businesses need full on x86 Windows, no exceptions.

Anyhow, on that, I played with a Surface pro the other day for about 10 mins. Sweet machine, I really wanted one after playing with it in person. Reading specs and reviews I was thinking "its just OK", but seeing, holding and using it in person made me really want one - as opposed to great specs but kind of crappy in person like many products... I was pleasantly surprised.


By Labotomizer on 5/1/2013 3:53:56 PM , Rating: 2
I'm on two weeks with my Surface Pro. For what I need it's the best electronics purchase I've made in a very long time. May not be for everyone, but if you want a small, light device and 5 hours of battery life is good enough for you then it's fantastic. Especially if you want to be able to use it for work and media consumption. It replaced and Ultrabook and an iPad and gives me more functionality than the two of them combined. One note with a pen while on a con call? Awesome. Shared OneNote over a WebEx for a whiteboard design session, or even to a TV or projector with the Surface on the table? Can't even begin to tell you how awesome it is.

I don't know that it would be a good for your average desk user, but our sales people and the other System Engineers around here all want it now.


By retrospooty on 5/1/2013 3:59:26 PM , Rating: 2
"our sales people and the other System Engineers around here all want it now."

I am guessing after they saw yours? Definitely impressive in person.


By Pirks on 5/1/2013 7:20:27 PM , Rating: 1
My wife badly wants one after I got it for myself. No. Way.


By retrospooty on 5/2/2013 10:26:03 AM , Rating: 2
LOL... The old "tablet in law". I have one of those myself. I got my Wife a Nook HD+ for $200 on sale and set it up with Cyanogenmod running Jellybean off the SD card. I was expecting it to be slow running from SD, but its actually running really well and now I want it. For $200 (it was a deal with a $70 gift card) she has a 9 inch tablet equal to the Kindle Fire HD+ with better res @ 1920x1280. Its an odd res, in between 16x10 and 4x3. Its really sharp. Great tablet for the price. Its no surface pro though, but at $200 its a sweet deal.


Premuim price for crappy resolution
By fic2 on 5/1/2013 1:01:27 PM , Rating: 2
So, both tablets mentioned have a premium price but both have crappy resolution. Who would pay that kind of money for a table with 1366x768?




By TakinYourPoints on 5/1/2013 5:17:21 PM , Rating: 2
If you're also talking about the Pro tablets then that's incorrect, those have a 1920x1080 resolution.

RT was a bad deal all the way around though. No developers, no apps, slow Tegra 3 internals, low res 16:9 display, all priced similarly to much faster and higher res tablets with huge developer support.

Surface Pro is a different story, and I think that Haswell will give them a major boost. The Thinkpad Helix with Haswell should be really nice. My main beef with the Surface Pro aside from the aspect ratio (it should be 16:10) is the keyboard. As much as Microsoft advertises the smart cover and how expensive it is, it really isn't a good keyboard (the one for RT barely even qualifies as a keyboard).

I expect that whatever keyboard Lenovo releases on theirs will be excellent.


By Makaveli on 5/2/2013 10:03:02 AM , Rating: 2
Agreed

I'll keep my 1600x900 Sony Vaio Z.

Has SSD's in Raid 0 and weight is about 3 lbs.


Say it isn't so?!
By Navier on 5/2/2013 12:53:31 AM , Rating: 2
Businesses need to run businesses apps, a web browser is not enough... yet or posible ever. The ability to install and run customized x86 applications are required for businesses to operate. Not having a rosetta stone or virtualization tech to interface with the ARM compiled OS makes any RT device a paperweight.




RE: Say it isn't so?!
By inighthawki on 5/2/2013 1:47:37 AM , Rating: 2
Say that to all the businesses that have invested in ipads. Or are they somehow special?


RE: Say it isn't so?!
By Makaveli on 5/2/2013 10:26:56 AM , Rating: 2
You mean like those school boards that bought Ipads instead of laptops just to realize they couldn't get any real work done or even plug usb keys into to transfer data.


Win 8 tablets/convertibles
By chmilz on 5/1/2013 12:23:27 PM , Rating: 2
Win RT was a cheap consumer tablet to target the low end. Business, power users, and techies will take the higher end units running Win 8.




Of course not
By BillyBatson on 5/1/2013 1:57:07 PM , Rating: 2
Of course businesses don't want windows RT just like they don't want iPads either. Businesses need more than just web surfing.




Captain Obvious
By crispbp04 on 5/1/2013 9:56:44 PM , Rating: 2
"Business doesn't want a Consumer product". OMG shocking.




Thats OK
By ilkhan on 5/2/2013 2:58:35 AM , Rating: 2
Thats ok, nobody else wants Windows RT (or windows 8 Pro for that matter) either.




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